>whiter skin
>titties
BUT
>brain damage
>weaker muscles
>bone structure says the exact same
what a shitty deal

>>40576163 (OP)
>brain damage
what???? what????? If anything I feel less hornyretarded and lost the brain fog since I started hormones
>bone structure stays the same
not if you start early

>>40576163 (OP)
>brain damage
good, dumb people are happier
>weaker muscles
was already weak
>bone structure says the exact same
true sad

>>40576163 (OP)
>brain damage
What?
>weaker muscles
Any muscles you work to maintain are ones you will retain on HRT.
You can also take something like oxandrolone or 20-hydroxyecdysone if you're super worried about it.
>bone structure says the exact same
Depends on if they've fused already.

>>40576163 (OP)
>>bone structure stays the same
>not if you start early
nope, bone structure mostly finishes by the time you turn 12-13

>>40576178
>>brain damage
>what???? what?????
it literally shrinks your brain, possibly deleting cells in the process, disregarding all the other affects. the fact it affects your brain is enough to worry about in the first place, as its changing your fundamental self. males have mental advantages that females dont have, and vice versa.

>>40576242
estrogen makes your brain bigger and last longer
https://www.aan.com/PressRoom/Home/PressRelease/4934
delete thread now anon

>>40576209
>>bone structure says the exact same
>Depends on if they've fused already.
what, you mean hips? the way you look is already solidified by the beginning of teenhood. you either look feminine, or you dont. the only thing HRT helps with is stopping further masculinity as you get older, but most of the dimorphism is already complete. look at timelapse videos of people taking a picture of themselves every day, they look the exact same.

>>40576270
theyre talking about HRT for menopause, idiot.

>>40576242
>it literally shrinks your brain, possibly deleting cells in the process, disregarding all the other affects. the fact it affects your brain is enough to worry about in the first place, as its changing your fundamental self. males have mental advantages that females dont have, and vice versa.
Based, put all moids on estrogen to kill their gross nasty moid braincells and make them better people

>>40576285
?

>>40576242
>it literally shrinks your brain
yes
>possibly deleting cells in the process
evidence?

>bAsEd, PuT AlL MoIdS On eStRoGeN To kIlL ThEiR GrOsS NA-aCCKc-CakcCakAACKKCA KACKK ACKKACKKC

>>40576285
found a study that proves your point, though it only recorded 12 people's changes. I was wrong.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15538189/
maybe my brain has actually shrunk... 3: Still happier than before so idc

>>40576357
Since when is FiM TERFbian coded? Literally half of all bronies are women now lmao

>>40576163 (OP)
The real pro is that you can block T and not get instant osteoporosis.

>>40576274
Wait really so if I was a femboy at 16 physically I would've stayed that way and not degenerated by 21 hmm. Feels like pseudo science

>>40576345
HRT reduces gray matter density, the parts of your brain associated with spatial reasoning and motor function. if HRT didn't reduce the function of any part of the brain, then it wouldn't need to change its size and accommodate for other things.
and so what? the burden of proof is on you, show me that it doesn't cause cell death, im not taking kooky unresearched shit. females don't even have estrogen only, they also have progesterone combined with them. that is not normal.

Lots to unpack here.
>>40576242
>it literally shrinks your brain
Intelligence isn't dictated by the size of the brain.
Available scientific evidence indicates that HRT does not have any adverse effect on overall cognitive ability.
There are cognitive 'domains' that appear to be somewhat dependent on hormones, but the largest meta-analysis on the subject found that MtF HRT actually enhances ability in most of them, with the only decline being in motor coordination.
Ironically, FtMs actually have it worse in that area, with the meta-analysis showing a decline in verbal memory on FtM HRT.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306453020301402
>40576242
>what, you mean hips?
Among other things. Bones can continue being influenced by hormones until ossification.
>nope, bone structure mostly finishes by the time you turn 12-13
You're just wrong.
In men, on average height changes and shoulder widening don't even reach peak growth velocity until 14 and 16 respectively, and growth continues long after that.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10768418/

>>40576664
>make absurd claim
>the burden of proof is on you
changes in volume != cell death

>>40576664
lol holy shit i already had a motor learning disability before hrt im gonna be stumbling over my own feet in a few years arent i

>>40576689
based on what, exactly?

I like being dumb tho

>>40576666
>In men, on average height changes and shoulder widening don't even reach peak growth velocity until 14 and 16 respectively, and growth continues long after that.
of course, it stops it from further masculinizing, which takes fucking decades at that point as most body changes have already happened.
if you already look masculine, which is determinable at age ~13, then HRT will change literally nothing, other than prevent if from getting worse. which, if you already look masculine, is kind of pointless as you already dont pass and therefore would need to take plastic surgery anyway.
>but the largest meta-analysis on the subject found that MtF HRT actually enhances ability in most of them, with the only decline being in motor coordination.
this is just bullshit. if it makes motor coordination decline then theres no way it doesn't make spatial ability decline, which is the most fundamentally male trait of the brain. compared to males, females have more verbal memory but less spatial ability, so it makes sense that FTM's have their verbal memory decline. in fact, im certain there was a study that shows visuospatial ability in FtM's increased, so it has to be partly hormonal.

>>40576676
>>the burden of proof is on you
it is on you though. just because it does not equal to cell death does not mean theres no cell death, and you are the one trying to convince me that HRT is safe only because it happens to be still unknown whether or not it causes cell death. which all things considered, it likely does or at least something like it, in at least some areas of the brain, due to neuroplasticity. not only do i have more evidence justifying your contrary, but something being unkown doesnt mean HRT is safe, and safeness is what youre arguing for.
>>40576689
check if you have autism

>>40576870
I'm just asking you to provide any evidence of cell death, calm down hon don't T rage at me

>>40576870
>check if you have autism
i already basically know i do, or at the very least some form of intellectual/learning disability

>>40576744
learned to walk late, couldn't tie my shoelaces or do anything very intricate with my fingers until like high school, cant write legibly with my hands without a lot of effort

>>40576942
I meant to inquire as to what your assertion of further motor skill degradation was based, not the presumably unquestioned pre-existing deficit

>>40576949
oh it was just based on what the other guy was saying about it, and some studies I read a few years ago, no idea if it's actually true or not but I'll find out i guess

>>40576882
if shrinking a certain area and increasing a certain area changes something, then thats enough proof to prove it decreases functioning in certain areas, disregarding proof needed for cell death. even density in itself is an aspect of what causes the brain to act a certain way. otherwise, if your perspective was correct, taking HRT would just make them gain the positive mental affects of the other sex, only making them smarter which is impossible.

>>40576808
>which is determinable at age ~13
LOL, ok.
>this is just bullshit.
Why, because you don't like it?
I provided evidence, cited sources. You're just saying shit.

Are these concerns about HRT legit, or is it like the concerns over nuclear power where its just bullshit excuses for "well I don't understand it so its bad"

>>40576977
I mean drinking, stress, cigarrets, pollution, processed food, being a fatass, football, etc also probably kill braincells.

What is the actual hazard posed by HRT relative to these other things?

>>40576977
>then thats enough proof to prove it decreases functioning in certain areas
that's not true, demonstrate that
>disregarding proof needed for cell death
how? you're not defending your points, just telling me to not worry about it and accept that you're right with zero basis

1/10 got another response out of me

>>40577034
YES. the MAJORITY of people have feminine faces that can pass. that percentage only gets SLIGHTLY lower as they get older. only a minority cant pass, and that scenario is visible in a very early age. ethnicity and ancestry does wayyy more to change the face than gender dimorphism. masculinity =/= test/estrogen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbk-O9u4gvc&list=PLuleFjWTGjTlkzefRUMMb9Nt2KCyusuGc&index=147

>>40577034
>Why, because you don't like it?
>I provided evidence, cited sources. You're just saying shit.
i WANT to be objective. i WANT to like it, but cant, because 90% of these studies contradict eachother, and a study cant replicate tangible evidence unless absolutely perfect. does it account for age? time? depression? method of HRT? comparison to each methods of HRT? just because you cited something that calls itself a study doesn't mean its immune to being reasoned with words, which im doing because im trying to be objective. i would love HRT, but i likewise care greatly about the health of my brain.
what do you have to say for visuospatial ability getting better in MTF's in your study, etc, but nothing in MTF's? are biological males just somehow immune? if what youre saying is true, the reason why it happened still needs to be explained. can they try and do actual MRI scans?

>>40577116
i hate when people give this shitty argument as to why fluoride is good for you

>>40577376
>better in FTM's

>>40577088
false comparison. science fully understands nuclear power, but not the effects of HRT
>>40577363
>>40577363
>that's not true, demonstrate that

>>40577363>
>that's not true, demonstrate that
you demonstrate that it causes no effect. neither of us have tangible proof of HRT causing bad affects or not, so im arguing with logic and other science as a hypothesis. neuroplasticity CAN have negative affects, the study i just talked about with the other dude proved that. if your brain randomly decides to rearrange itself its highly unlikely youll receive only benefits. if this wasnt the case, then we'd turn into geniuses, but theres a trade off. if your brain enables female hormones, the male parts of your brain are going to negatively benefit, and adjust to that of the opposite sex. this is just common sense. the actual argument at this point is whether or not it decreases functioning in the areas that are extremely important, which is spatial awareness, memory, and senses.
>how? you're not defending your points, just telling me to not worry about it and accept that you're right with zero basis
how? if testosterone makes you really that depressed, im not concered about you taking HRT for any reason, even if it is theoretically risky. im concerned about myself

>>40577376
No but actually, everything kills you. Is HRT actually killing you enough to be worried about it, or is there larger priorities to worry about?

>>40577534
im completely healthy, so having something on par with any of the things youre referring to that are a concern, would be something of concern to me. ive never done anything in my life to put my healthy in jeopardy.

>>40577614
>ive never done anything in my life to put my healthy in jeopardy.
You probably have without realizing it.

>>40576163 (OP)
idk if it's real or not but idgaf if it makes my brain smaller or dumber lol
also same for muscles and bone structure etc

>>40576163 (OP)
bone structure staying the same is not a negative

>>40580450
some company could have too with some weird ass chemical process putting god knows what in the air, life can be like that lol

>>40576242
>brain shrinks
maybe it is just becoming more efficient, making you smarter. bigger doesn't always mean better

>>40576285
It's the exact same substance.

>>40576808
what's better to have? verbal memory or spatial ability?
who wins out in this trade off? ftms or mtfs?

>>40576163 (OP)
>brain damage

Dumb and happy beats smart and sad any day.

>>40576163 (OP)
that's anti-suicidal pills for many. if you're concerned about side effects you ain't real tranny.

>>40576664
actual fucking dilettante
that's not how the burden of proof works, and your entire argument is unscientific
istg letting the unwashed masses learn and use scientific terminology has done more harm than good, now we have a generation of unwashed dotards like urself who think all it takes to be smart is to use big words

>>40580841
trvke!!

>>40577034
Most boys have ugly male faces already at 13. Boys puberty commonly starts at 9 years old

>>40581876
>Most
Not all.
>faces
Facial change is just one aspect of masculinization. The goal posts have officially been moved.
>Boys puberty commonly starts at 9 years old
Only 50% of boys will have entered tanner stage 2 by 11. By 12 only 75% will have.
I didn't hit puberty until 13.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6378593/

>>40577523
?