Hoping we see a separation go mainstream in 5-10 years...

1. Different Foundations: LGB is about biological sex and attraction; TQ+ is about self-declared gender identity... completely different issues.

2. Undermines LGB: TQ+ activism erases same-sex attraction by pressuring LGB people to accept opposite-sex bodies as valid partners.

3. Rights vs. Demands: LGB rights are largely secured; TQ+ keeps pushing new demands, dragging LGB into endless conflict.

4. Freedom vs. Control: LGB advocacy fought for freedom; TQ+ demands compliance, policing language and belief.

5. Public Support Risk: LGB is still widely supported, but staying tied to TQ+ harms that support as backlash grows.

6. Stable vs. Fluid: LGB is fixed and real; TQ+ is ever-changing and ungrounded, making joint advocacy unstable.

7. Protecting LGB Youth: TQ+ ideology medicalizes confused LGB youth, pushing them into irreversible harm.

8. Survival of LGB Identity: To preserve LGB identity and rights, we must separate from TQ+ overreach and ideology.

Totally agree. I feel sorry for you guys. The T fucked your movement big time. Aggressive trannys just plomped their hrt filled arses all over the progress LGB made over the years. Now polls show the entire queer movement is losing support.

Please shut the fuck up and consider killing yourself.

Nothing is more retarded than this movement. Not even the flat earthers

>>40594747
get fucked idiots you deserve this, gridsmonkey

>>40594641 (OP)
I think we made a mistake in the first place by claiming that being gay was not a disorder. It is a neurological disorder.

>>40594641 (OP)
>bake my cake
>accept teaching about griddism to 3yos
>nambla
>huffing detergent is cool and heckin based actually
>anything getting in the way of my homophilic fetish is the DEVIL
>EVERYBODY MUST LIKE ME SPREADING SHIT AROUND AND CARRYING DILDOS IN PURSES
>let me insult womyn in every way possible youre homophobic if you dont
>let me make theatrical plays about 12 yos havibg sex
>dem troonz are grooming kids!!!??!?!

>>40594954
Trannies that think they become female are exactly like flat earthers, in terms of their epistemology

>>40595018
I mean, if you want to call homosexuality abnormal or atypical, sure... that’s just statistical reality. I don’t run from that. But it’s also a naturally occurring, stable variation found across hundreds of animal species, not just humans. And unlike an actual disorder, homosexuality doesn’t cause inherent distress or impairment.

Now if we’re talking about transgenderism, that’s different. Gender dysphoria is classified as a mental health condition. It’s treated with therapy, hormones, and surgeries, which wouldn’t be necessary if there weren’t some form of psychological or neurological conflict involved. So if you’re reaching for a diagnosis, that’s where it applies... Not to being gay.

>>40594641 (OP)
As a flag nerd I gotta say that flag is a really cool way to represent the LGB drop the T movement thing

Still a retarded idea, but cool flag

>>40594641 (OP)
>LGB is about biological sex and attraction;
>The only ones who will remain are going to be the aces.

>>40594641 (OP)
at least write your fucking slopaganda yourself instead of outsourcing it to a robot

>>40595200
Trannies are homophobes.

>>40595257
You won't ragebait me into arguing because I legit didn't even bother reading the thread, but still, very cool flag

>>40595257
And what about it fag

>>40594641 (OP)
>different foundations
Sure, but they’re still very much intertwined. Unproductive to separate until there’s no shared issues between groups.
>pressuring LGB people to accept opposite-sex bodies as valid partners.
Just say no.
>LGB rights are largely secured
No they are not.
>freedom vs compliance
LGB campaigned to change the definition of marriage, and create workplace/legal protections from discrimination.
>LGB is still widely supported
No it is not.
>Staying tied to TQ+
Christians hate trans people because they think they’re gays pretending not to be gay. Really, you’re hurting them in that regard.
>ungrounded/unstable advocacy
You’ll need to elaborate on that one.
>Protecting LGB youth
I want the same thing. Transphobia is not going to help with this. For diagnostic research to improve it needs to be funded.
>Survival of LGB rights
Didn’t you say they were secured?

>>40595172
>And unlike an actual disorder, homosexuality doesn’t cause inherent distress or impairment.
this is a bogus definition of a disorder though
something's clearly gone wrong no matter how you feel about it

>>40595284
You are not a fren!

>>40594641 (OP)
LGBQ
>about challenging sexual and gender norms
>redefines what counts as a relationship
>redefines the family
T
>taking medication and making lifestyle changes to avoid intense suffering
see homophobes, us trannies are actually based and conservative like you, nothing like those buttbuddies who want to redefine love!

>>40595540
phrased it better than i ever could fren

>>40595540
this would be true in iran, but most western trannies are female-attracted far-left anarchist

>>40595343
>Sure, but they’re still very much intertwined.
Intertwined for political convenience, not by logical necessity, which causes confusion. TQ+ has totally different goals.
>Just say no.
It’s not that simple. We’re called bigots for having same-sex preferences, which is insane.
>No they are not.
In most places, they are… marriage, job protections, adoption, etc. TQ+ is pushing new demands, and we’re getting dragged into that mess.
>LGB campaigned to change the definition of marriage, and create workplace/legal protections from discrimination.
Yes, for freedom and equality, not to compel belief or redefine biological categories.
>Christians hate trans people because they think they’re gays pretending not to be gay. Really, you’re hurting them in that regard.
I don’t care what Christians think. The point is, LGB people are being misrepresented and blamed for stuff we don’t support.
>You’ll need to elaborate on that one.
TQ+ activism redefines terms constantly… new genders, pronouns, shifting rules. It makes it all fluid and incoherent and really just chaotic.
>I want the same thing. Transphobia is not going to help with this. For diagnostic research to improve it needs to be funded.
Calling every concern “transphobia” is just shutting down debate. LGB kids are being told they’re trans and pushed toward medical treatments they might regret. That deserves serious attention.
>Didn’t you say rights were secured?
For now… until TQ+ erodes public support.

>>40595569
>not to compel belief
how is bake the cake bigot any better than use the pronouns bigot

>>40595587
how are either of them better than "you must serve the black people, racist"

>>40595049
real asf twitter trannies take the attention away from circuit fags

>>40595459
Just because something is uncommon or doesn’t make babies doesn’t mean it’s broken. If that were true, left handed people would be disordered too.

Now compare that to gender dysphoria, where people are so distressed they pump themselves full of hormones and chop off healthy body parts. That’s what actual medical intervention looks like, and that’s why it’s still considered a disorder.

>>40595607
well yes, it does, the purpose of humans is to make babies
homosexuality is a disorder just like infertility is a disorder even if the patient doesnt mind being infertile

>Now compare that to gender dysphoria, where people are so distressed they pump themselves full of hormones and chop off healthy body parts. That’s what actual medical intervention looks like, and that’s why it’s still considered a disorder.

lots of people want plastic surgery and are distressed if they don't get it. why aren't they disordered?

>>40595600
they aren't, they're all the exact same thing: a sometimes abrasive measure to force a hateful society to treat minorities like human beings

>>40595633
why should minorities get a free pass from dealing with the social consequences of their own bad behavior?

>>40594641 (OP)
you beat your girlfriend meanwhile trans girls date men who treat them better than you treat her

>>40595540
T do everything LGB do except they also want to redefine what biological sex is and force people to cater to their delusions

>>40595624
>well yes, it does, the purpose of humans is to make babies
homosexuality is a disorder just like infertility is a disorder even if the patient doesnt mind being infertile
So by your logic, anyone who doesn’t reproduce is disordered? Got it.

>lots of people want plastic surgery and are distressed if they don't get it. why aren't they disordered?
Plastic surgery is about enhancing existing appearance. Gender dysphoria can involve removing healthy body parts to avoid suicide. Not really the same thing.

>>40594641 (OP)
daily reminder that fags (and dl fags) are the reason STDs are so prevalent, literally caused AIDS. kink at pride is nasty and largely done by cisfags, walking around with dildos in public streets.

>>40595644
what is the "social consequence of their own bad behavior" in this instance? being black and wanting to eat at that restaurant? being gay and wanting to be able to buy a wedding cake without moving to a blue city? being trans and wanting other people to not humiliate and remind you of your embarrassing medical history?

my day was going fine until i saw this post
>>40595569
>It's not that simple.>
yes it is bro, you are not getting called a bigot and flaunted around social.media en masse, if they're calling you a bigot because you have same sex preferences then they aren't the one its that simple
>compel belief or redefine biological categories>
TQ+ is more of a social thing, the stuff you learnt in your 7th grade biology textbook is fine, it still applies
>redefines terms constantly>
Not constantly, some terms may be redefined here and there but a lot of it won't apply, you won't need to learn "all 84 genders" or whatever and neopronouns aren't in common usage/are commonly used in conjunction w more typical pronouns
>LGB kids are being told they're trans>
No they are not, I believe on occasion they are by dumbass tiktok parents who are trying to cash in on their clout but its not at all as common as hearing this argument it
>until TQ+ erodes public support.>
godddd you're so pessimisticcc stfuuuuuuu

finding a scapegoat won't defend your cause it only pushes more people away from supporting you

>>40595685
>redefine biological sex
define biological sex. we just want to acknowledge complexity that already exists, your sex is expressed throughout your entire body. if it's genetics people with mosaicism can be two sexes. many intersex people wouldn't be male or female

>>40595698
>So by your logic, anyone who doesn’t reproduce is disordered? Got it.
they might be unlucky or make some kind of religious choice, but it's normal to want children and there is something wrong if a person doesn't have them outside extenuating circumstances yes

>Plastic surgery is about enhancing existing appearance. Gender dysphoria can involve removing healthy body parts to avoid suicide. Not really the same thing.
lots of plastic surgery wanters would claim they'll kill themselves if it gets them free surgery

>>40595733
>being black and wanting to eat at that restaurant? being gay and wanting to be able to buy a wedding cake without moving to a blue city? being trans and wanting other people to not humiliate and remind you of your embarrassing medical history?
why do minorities need the government to force people to be nice to them? people recognize patterns and don't like certain minorities for various reasons. they aren't stupid, and they wouldn't turn down black people or gays or trannies for no reason.
so why should the government get between minorities behaving badly and the consequences of that bad behavior, without which minorities continue to behave badly?

>>40595777
>why do minorities need the government to force people to be nice to them? people recognize patterns
because America is founded on individual rights and individual liberties, and it's my right as an individual to not face collective guilt because a bunch of other troons are annoying. i hung out with right wingers for most of the past decade and they all fed me the "most trannies are bad but not you uwu" shit, it's all about collective punishment. and collective punishment is not in the spirit of freedom in any way. i support free association, if someone from a minority group comes in your business and causes problems, throw them out. if you find a tranny annoying, dont talk to them. otherwise you just make increasingly spiteful minorities who feel like they will always face unfair judgement from the majority.

>>40594641 (OP)
1. No it's not, what you're gonna tell me as a bisexual my attraction is based on biological sex? l m a o
2. No it doesn't. You don't have to accept anyone as a partner if you give a shit about chromosomes then say that and trans people will avoid you
3. No they're pushing for the same rights we secured for LGB people already
4. Gender liberation is freedom, you would police language if someone called you slurs what a retarded argument.
5. Moral cowardice, like just actual moral cowardice, throwing one group under the bus to save your hide, grow a spine
6. Just outright untrue.
7. No it doesn't, your premise here is now trying to convince people TQ+ is bad rather than arguing separately for the rights of both, really shows where your motivations are.
8. Bullshit, complete bullshit. Freedom for all requires freedom for *ALL*, this is just that moral cowardice showing again.

Grow a spine you absolute fucking screamer. Better yet, stop larping as LGB when you're likely not one of us but yet another cishet engaging in ratfucking.

>>40595747
>yes it is bro, you are not getting called a bigot and flaunted around social.media en masse, if they're calling you a bigot because you have same sex preferences then they aren't the one its that simple
Spoken like someone who’s never spent five minutes outside their bubble.

>TQ+ is more of a social thing, the stuff you learnt in your 7th grade biology textbook is fine, it still applies
If biology “still applies,” then why are people being punished or banned online for stating that men can’t become women?

>Not constantly, some terms may be redefined here and there but a lot of it won't apply, you won't need to learn "all 84 genders" or whatever and neopronouns aren't in common usage/are commonly used in conjunction w more typical pronouns
The fact that you admit terms are being redefined proves the point.

>No they are not, I believe on occasion they are by dumbass tiktok parents who are trying to cash in on their clout but its not at all as common as hearing this argument it
Hey, if confused LGB kids being pushed toward transition is only happening “on occasion,” guess we’ll just ignore those kids, right? Not a trend if it’s not everywhere, I guess. Detransitioners are popping up more and more.

>godddd you're so pessimisticcc stfuuuuuuu
No, I’m realistic. The backlash is here, trans rights are collapsing, and they brought it on themselves.

>finding a scapegoat won't defend your cause it only pushes more people away from supporting you
Pointing out real harm isn’t scapegoating. If people are turning away, it’s because they’re done playing along, not because we spoke up

>>40595804
>America is founded on individual rights and individual liberties
Nope, America was founded as a slave state with white supremacism.
If people want to exercise their freedom of association and exclude minorities that's surely their right.

> it's all about collective punishment
There's nothing wrong with collective punishment. It goes along with collective rights. Minorities shouldn't get to have it both ways.

>otherwise you just make increasingly spiteful minorities who feel like they will always face unfair judgement from the majority.
It's the other way around. Bending over backwards for minorities makes them spiteful and eager to revenge themselves on the majority, collective punishment for minorities is gives them an incentive to show they have changed.

>>40595829
Trannies are biologically gay.

>>40595869
i believe that collective rights are a bandaid to stop minorities from metaphorically bleeding out (being forced to the absolute margins of society) and that they eventually won't be necessary. i am generally anti collective anything. i think everyone is an individual, and i think almost all of my suffering in life has been because ive been forced to carry other people's baggage. i am living my life, but until the guy trying to take my medicine away does the same, i need collective rights.

>>40595829
>1. No it's not, what you're gonna tell me as a bisexual my attraction is based on biological sex? l m a o
Yes, same-sex attraction is about biological sex. That’s what the “same” means. If you’re attracted to someone for another reason, then it’s not about their sex now is it?

>2. No it doesn't. You don't have to accept anyone as a partner if you give a shit about chromosomes then say that and trans people will avoid you
You want to know how often I hear genital preference is transphobic?

>3. No they're pushing for the same rights we secured for LGB people already
TQ+ is pushing for new rights, like compelled speech, access to opposite-sex spaces, and medicalizing minors. That’s not the same fight LGB people had.

>4. Gender liberation is freedom, you would police language if someone called you slurs what a retarded argument.
Policing language = control, not freedom. You don’t get to redefine reality and call it liberation. Stating biological fact isn’t a slur.

>5. Moral cowardice, like just actual moral cowardice, throwing one group under the bus to save your hide, grow a spine
It’s not cowardice, it’s self-preservation. TQ+ activism is its own worst enemy, and we shouldn’t go down with the ship

>6. Just outright untrue.
ze/zir, xe/xem, bun/bunself, etc.

>7. No it doesn't, your premise here is now trying to convince people TQ+ is bad rather than arguing separately for the rights of both, really shows where your motivations are.
Some LGB youth are being rushed into medical transition. Denying it doesn’t make it go away.

>8. Bullshit, complete bullshit. Freedom for all requires freedom for *ALL*, this is just that moral cowardice showing again.
If “freedom for all” includes forcing belief, silencing dissent, and medicating kids, then no thanks.

>Grow a spine you absolute fucking screamer. Better yet, stop larping as LGB
Not one of you? Thank God. Still gay though. Dick’s great, by the way.

drop the L because lesbians don't exist

>>40596019
LGB can have dumb infighting too that's most radfems origin story, leaving gay-men dominated gay spaces. remember gays against gay marriage? arguing that it was assimilationist lmfao you're all no better

>>40595569
>logical necessity
Trans and gay identities are still intertwined in many counties, I.e., the line between trans women and gay men is completely blurred, as well as trans men and lesbians. The discrimination they face is largely the same. Progress is what allows separation. We’re almost there for sure, but not quite. As long as people are spewing homophobic rhetoric towards trans people, the fight continues.
>called bigots
I’ve had idiots across different demographics be rude, or think I’m bigoted, for not sleeping with them. Unfortunately some people can’t tolerate rejection and/or fail to learn appropriate behaviour from it. No need to feel like shit or spiral about repercussions that will never come.
>most places
~33 countries is unfortunately not most places.
>not to compel belief or redefine science
Please learn more of your history. Please.
>I don’t care what Christians think. The point is, LGB people are being misrepresented and blamed for stuff we don’t support.
Misrepresented and blamed by whom? Seems like you may care what those groups think.
>redefines shit constantly
I agree that this is a problem and there needs to be more focus if they want to get anywhere. I hope they’re in a period of getting more organized. There are still extremely basic things that easy to support, which I’ll continue to support.
>calling every concern “transphobia” is shutting down the debate
Not really sure what debate you expected from me on this one. I said we share the same concern. I’m just letting you know hating on trannies isn’t a solution (especially when they didn’t cause it), in case you thought it was.
>For now
When the rights of one minority group hinges on the behaviour of another, I have a hard time saying they’re secure. Especially when transphobic rhetoric is 90% homophobic rhetoric with a new target.

>>40595982
Why should you get collective rights when the majority doesn't get the collective right to exclude you as it deems necessary?
You want an aristocracy with yourself at the top.

>>40596047
hairy scaly green ogre hands typed those words

>>40596162
your lesbian friend wont make an exception for you bro

>>40595757
Hm. Id fuck a trans guy. Technically that means the problem isnt that im incapable of reproduction, just that all my partners so far have been coincidentally infertile. It follows logically that i do not have a sexual disorder, but a catholic priest does

>>40596047
lesbians exist

Trannies are just autistic straight males.

And by autistic I don’t mean the based, secret geniuses with a heart of gold, autismos you see on television

Just straight up rude/sadistic porn addicted fat retards who don’t bathe and smell like dried up old cum and feces

>>40594641 (OP)
>>40594747
>>40594954
You just blow in from the rebranded anti-gay groups?

>>40595094
>>40595257
>>40595540

>>40594747
>>40594954
>>40594973
>>40595018
Trans people are gay people.
Transphobia is a form of homophobia.

>>40594641 (OP)
THIS!!! We need to keep FTMs out of the local pozzed up gay anal fisting bukake bath house. THE LEFT HAS GONE TOO FAR!

>>40597032
the word "trans" didn't have any currency until about 10 years ago
most "lgbt history" is revisionist horseshit

>>40597094
people knew the words transsexual and transvestite before 10 years ago

>>40597105
those are not the same word as "trans"
they have different letters, different numbers of letters and different sequences of letters
hth

>>40597122
negro, black and african american also are all different letters, different numbers of letters and different sequences of letters

fuck no kill yourself faggot

>>40597133
yes, and they can also have meanings that differ in relevant ways
understanding history means we don't unthinkingly project the present onto the past

>>40597105
trans people are crossdressers with massive egos and narcissism

>>40597164
trans people don't exist
transsexuals exist and transvestites exist, and they decided to pretend to be one thing to stop normies asking too many questions about motive

>>40597164
and fags like u r perverted sexual deviants with a rampant pedophilia and exhibitionist problem whats ur point

>>40597176
transsexual people don't exist - you can castrate yourself, and you can crossdress, but the combination of the two is not magical and does not make you a non-male

>>40597193
the pedophilia accusations are women trying to prevent boys from fucking each other
>exhibitionist
maybe we should give gays healthy sexual outlets as kids and adults so they won't go insane from sexual repression...

>Hoping we see a separation go mainstream in 5-10 years...
It won't
>LGB is about biological sex
No, it's solely about sexual attraction which is entirely appearance based
>erases same-sex attraction
It doesn't. But besides, why would bisexuals have a single issue with this?
>medicalizes confused LGB youth
you are gigaretarded if think Lesbian, Gay or Bisexual people wake up and just think "maybe I'm one of those tranny things?"

>>40595459
>this is a bogus definition of a disorder
It isn't. Disorders necessarily need to be things that cause distress to the one that suffers because otherwise every uncommon trait could be called a disorder.
Are people with IQs over 130 suffering from the Big Brain Disorder?
Are people with green eyes suffering from Ocular Emeralditis?
Are people over 6'8 suffering from Tall Guy Syndrome?
Are math child prodigies suffering from young onset numberitis?

Retard.

>>40595624
>natural teleology
ah, I see I wasted my time

>>40598419
psychopaths don't feel distressed by being psychopaths and pedophiles don't always feel distressed by being pedophiles

>>40595869
>There's nothing wrong with collective punishment
I think you need to be executed. This is fair and OK as it's collective punishment from when people vaguely like you did something heinous

If they know you'll drop the TQ... who's to say they wont ask you to drop the L? the G? once yoy compromise your beliefs (pro) (mise) USurmisal ->Logical Result (WIttgenstein Ano prpnoelief) into qua NO Gay Faggots but Lesbains are alllowedasthe toxic divine masculine lets ladies be jakced off too (Ladies Include trans men; intellectual speedbrige to, abolition of SEX noo my jacket please dont i love you chaser

Absolutely brilliant, you deserve an honorary PHD from MIT. I can't believe all the trannies of the world don't understand things the way smart guys like you do.

Based?

>>40599905
trans women are men

>>40595869
>There's nothing wrong with collective punishment. It goes along with collective rights. Minorities shouldn't get to have it both ways.
we should kill all white people for this comment

>>40598460
Being gay doesn’t cause harm or dysfunction, so it’s not a disorder. Psychopathy and pedophilia are disorders because they involve harmful behavior or impulses. Gender dysphoria is also a disorder because it causes significant personal distress and requires medical treatment to manage. That’s the clinical difference, harm or dysfunction defines a disorder, and being gay doesn’t meet that

>>40600618
gender dysphoria is a woke way of saying internalized homophobia
if gay men were women they wouldn't be gay
you can't have one without the other

>>40600618
>>40600624
Gender dysphoria is a supply and demand thing, some men are into trannies and someone has to take one for the team to make them happy.

>>40600630
stop humoring closeted gay men who want to have gay sex and larp as straight
trannies are only holding gays back and making us look bad - trannies signal to normies gays can't accept who they really are

>>40600649
No but actually being a tranny is its own thing, I went through "im just gay I am NOT a tranny waaah" phase like a gay guy would, i don't know why this is so hard to figure out.

>>40600669
ur probably agp so pretending u were gay is extra stupid

>>40600737
i had a boyfriend the entire time lol

>>40600816
meta attraction

>>40600841
?

>>40600856
being with a man makes you feel more womanly

>>40601020
i know for a fact that I am a bit meta attracted but I also just like men, blanchard could have expanded his typology by making it into a spectrum and it would be much more useful and accurate

Separating perverts from people with intersex disorders will not go as you plan.

>>40595049
>fags staying quiet about this one
Curious...

>>40597304
>the propagabda is the foids i am totally 16 wanting to bang a 14 bro i promise

>>40600649
There is no "gays"
There are only pedophiles qith a misogyny fetish