Thread 41323301

Why are people literally incapable of writing a trans female character without horribly mishandling it but somehow find it really easy to write a trans male character?

>>41323301 (OP)
big dog it's because all anime readers are moids. none of them are female so it's not like they could understand.

But a bunch of moids thinking how feminine they are and self inserting but then seeing they will never be guts is tragic to them

>>41323301 (OP)
Bridget is just a mess as a whole because he was written as otokonoko with no issues with his gender but then that shit got retconned in Strive and you get the factions that pretend it was always there even though he'd always go against the idea and the faction that acts like the retcon didn't happen due to the character's previous actions and choices with nothing indicating he wanted to identify as a girl.

>>41323301 (OP)
these characters have different creators; clearly, one of them is a better writer

>>41323301 (OP)
Maybe seek out layered and complex MTF representation rather than goonbait MTF representation?

Seems like you are creating your own problems again anon.

>>41323301 (OP)
honestly I don't think you can write a good mtf character
the ftm side of your pic makes complete sense
with mtfs a 6 foot tall man pretending to be a woman it just looks funny meanwhile I can understand a woman hating her body and wanting to be a man even if she's a 4'11 pooner

>>41323301 (OP)
Bro didn't even try with the mtf side

>>41323443
Hibari is tricky due to the era it was written in and there never getting an outright confirmation of if Hibari is trans or not despite everything they say.

>>41323457
If you watch or read all of Hibari and come away thinking Hibari is anything but trans you're delulu tbhdesu

>>41323457
yeah and we'll never know if sappho was a lesbian

>>41323301 (OP)
picking a fujimoto character is extremely unfair lmao, he's THE goat

the day fujimoto writes a mtf character (the short story one doesnt count. not as fleshed out as togata cuz its a short story), you bet she's gonna be wonderfully written

>>41323301 (OP)
fujimoto is just the goat I'm sorry

>>41323353
every "layered mtf representation" makes them some type of nb guy in a dress with the morale of the story being "men can present femininely too!! dont forget theyll always be male tho!"

>>41323484
Hibari never looks at the reader and says "I am transgender" so despite it all there is still narrow room for doubt, especially given it is a gag manga, the mischievous nature of Hibari, and the fact that there is a trans man so it's not like there isn't anything trans.

>>41323534
>>41323485

>>41323519
Then you know what anon?

Why don't YOU write some GOOD layered MTF representation?

I wrote the best Mtf character I've ever seen. She is an agp hon passoid killer. I used myself and several reports from hons on this board as inspiration.

Anyway, it's impossible to write an mtf character that normies will connect with. Simply because wanting to belong to the weaker sex is a subversion and not worthy of a hero. While the typical FTM protagonist will create an immediate identification with very feminist girls and wanking geeks.

>>41323301 (OP)
off the top of my head the main reason is just patriarchal bias. a man becoming a woman is seen as humiliating because women are viewed as lesser and only good for sex. a woman becoming a man is seen as noble because men are viewed as strong and powerful.
of course there are caveats in this like for example a 4'11" triple F cup tomboy trying to transition to a man will just be seen as comical. but you're gonna be hard pressed to find a mainstream example of mtf transition that's not fetish bait because no matter if a guy is a 5'2" twink or a 6'3" linebacker becoming a woman will be seen as a sex thing since women are seen as sex objects inherently.
>inb4 wah holes female privilege sex wah wah
don't care

>>41323301 (OP)
What I'm about to say can easily be misinterpreted as being misogynistic, but, please, keep an open mind, that is if you genuinely care about unadulterated truth, and don't just say you do because that's what expected of you. The reason why FTM representation is handled with nuance and care is because the male experience is one of hardships and sacrificing. There's just so much you can explore and learn and ponder with the male experience. Such deep themes such as "what it means to be human?" and "what is identity, real?" While the female experience is… well… things such as: "my pussy is bleeding!" "my pussy is too loose!" and "my pussy stanks!" The female experience is one of superficialities. The core of femaleness is deceit. These whores caked their shit in make up and say fake compliments they don't really mean.

>>41323301 (OP)
Togata is a strange case cuz after 100 years of life individual would probably lose most of their interests and care for own looks

>>41323301 (OP)
OP is a whiny bitch, but I think Bridget is a really unique case study in what rep is and what people want from it. At a glance, it's confusing as to why everyone loves her so much; especially if you treat Guilty Gear as the ONLY text she is a part of. OP pic ovesimplifies her narrative a lot, but ger character progression is sort of jarring even if you explain it well. Guilty gear's narrative, if you follow it from beginning to end, kind of feels like talking to someone with a stroke. There are vibes and themes and ideas that the series holds very close to its core, but the story itself is jumbled and inconsistent.

Bridget, however, is not confined to Guilty Gear: people post(ed) about her online. She was one of the most popular characters in the series fron her introduction onward. She featured heavily as one of the most popular GNC characters of all time in basically all forms of fan art. The ways that people talked (and talk) about trans women were (whether intentionally or not -- usually not) reflected in, and refracted through, Bridget. Naturally, a lot of tranners started identifying with her. Brudget's character development actually takes this externailty into account. It's hamfisted and retarded, but that's all of Guilty Gear. The thing that people like about Bridget isn't that she's this brilliantly written character (although some people will say this, it's only because they like bickering with huge pussies online and not because they actually believe it), it's because of what she communicates to trans women through the medium of Guilty Gear.

None of that really matters to me, however, because I hate that stupid fucking cunt and all of the slobber-drenched piggies who abuse her fake ass shit that I always fall for even though I've labbed it for a billion fucking hours.

>t. Zato picker

>>41323866
honestly i think that's what makes him such an incredible piece of trans writing

it's clear that before meeting agni, he was the ultimate repressor - completely detached from his own body, living only to watch movies, the very thing that made him realize he was trans, and even then, it all went up in flames. his introduction has him killing himself, but always failing, and living in a loop of eating, sleeping and masturbating. he lost everything, he has no memories of who he used to be, and would continue living in a constant state of repression, if not for the events of fire punch.

fuck, his death is, in a way, him finally breaking the repression and doing one last act of heroism, just like the heroes he wanted to be when he was a kid. him coming to terms with his memories, and what he always wanted, but never could be. i might be glazing fujimoto a little bit, but it is a story that even i, a MtF, can relate to.

>>41324211
playing zato goes against the geneva convention

>>41323301 (OP)
I actually totally disagree about togata
fire punch is great, but the extent to which togata is ftm representation is basically just one scene of "omg I'm so dysphoric". Which is fine, but that's basically the extent of his character. There's very little actual arc, no real development, and only features for a few chapters. And despite being dysphoric, has a women's haircut and stuff. I think people are confusing their like for fujimoto with liking togata's characterization.
The real best ftm representation in manga is sechs, from battle angel alita last order. Sechs is one of the main protagonists, and has a real arc and character development. He actually transitions and gets a male body, and has real personality traits and motivations beyond just trans stuff. Of course it's set in a world where technology is so advanced that you can have pretty much whatever body you like (with enough money), but it's really refreshing to have such a blatantly trans character in a setting where transness does not become the entire focus of his character, where the people around him accept him and he gets to have a somewhat normal masculine deuteragonist character arc to the point where you almost forget that he was originally cloned as a woman.

>>41323301 (OP)
>I was forced to be a girl or die
Idk OP that sounds about like how I feel about my own trooning. Why would I risk becoming a pariah if it wasn't a life or death situation from crippling dysphoria?

>>41323301 (OP)
OH MY GOD IT'S NOT THE REPRESENTATION THAT'S WORSE OR BETTER, BUT THE WRITER PLEASE STOP BEING A RETARD, DAISULE SUCKS NO MATTER WHAT HE WRITES, ALL OF HIS CHARACTERS ARE A MESS NOT JUST BRIDGET

>>41323353
>layered and complex MTF representation

>>41323485
Sapfo was not a lesbian except in the sense of being from the island of Lesbos. The ancients all agree that she was just a horny slut in general and would fuck either sex. A bike, not a dyke.

>>41324211
Bitching about a mid tier lol + a zato player lmao
I love you <3

>>41323301 (OP)
most trans female experience runs counter intuitively to the heroes journey
It's an existential mire of cope and distraction and grotesque bodily distress and being reviled by the outside world
Any "Happy ending" or strength found in it feels disingenuous
There's no yas queening my way out of what feels like a convoluted failure state
Everyone I know just copes with being irony poisoned, or taking copious amounts of dissociatives or sex addiction or burning out over and over throwing themselves into some kind of niche autistic obsession, or just manmoding or repping and living some sort of half life with pockets of authenticity that feel safe but feel like they could be pulled out from under us at any moment. I imagine the ones who are doing activism are coping too. It's just some sort of complex semantic cope where all their issues are extrenalized to wider social, political and ecological issues and their personal dread gets wrapped up in all of that.
Our lives are so fetishised and so devalued, and the basic horror of dysphoria feels so overwhelming that idk. Just sucks. I don't wanna watch trauma porn about a tranny as sad as I can be. I don't wanna watch some disingenuous yas queen bullshit I don't relate to. I don't wanna watch some happy story that makes me seethe. I honestly don't want to see myself reflected in art any more than I want to see myself reflected in the mirror. Outside of pure fiction, trans people will eat alive any public figure who shares their identity. The crab bucket will claw back anyone who makes a name for themselves.
I want to choose to imagine myself happy. I want to choose to imagine my friends happy. I want to choose to imagine us living sincere, good lives bereft of the poison of irony and dissociation. I'm afraid that'd make boring art too.

>>41324653
>togata is ftm representation is basically just one scene of "omg I'm so dysphoric".
The "layered" and "true to life" depiction and it's just agonizing over being dysphoric for maybe 3 pages...

>>41323301 (OP)
Tbhon most FtM representation does a 180 and the character flakes out or stays a mentally ill woman
There's far, far more instances of MtF representation and it varies in levels of complexity.

>>41323301 (OP)
Bridget's design as a boy is just better

>>41323519
Hourou Musuko
Skip to Loafer
Zombieland Saga
Fukakai na Boku no Subete wo has a trans girl tho she ain't that relevant
Mimoza no Kokuhaku

>>41324211
That was a detriment to Bridget suddenly being re-written to be trans. People coming to love Bridget as a femboy didn't help them accept her or the concept itself when she flipped trans, it made them seething angry that 'their' femboy was stolen from them, causing them to hate her and the writer for doing it. You could argue that the bad way it was handled contributed to this, but I honestly think these people would've hated it even if it was handled amazingly, or involved a character for whom this character arc was the intent from the beginning (and again, was handled amazingly,) they just ideologically cannot accept it.

>>41323301 (OP)
>ftm representation
Suffers and dies without getting to transition
>mtf representation
Some people are mean to her sometimes

>>41326152
The bulk of it is definitely Bridget being written as otokonoko and being known that way for 25 years until all of a sudden Daisuke flipped a switch for *representation* and retconned Bridget. Like it'd be one thing if Bridget was intended to be trans from the start, but she 100% wasn't.

>>41327027
I just don't believe that most of the spurned Bridget fans would be okay with any trans fighting game character. Being gay for femboys was sort've accepted in the online right before the more recently pseudo-puritan push, while they've always hated trannies. Yes, it was handled poorly in an objective sense, I just don't think these people specifically would've been fine with ANY transgirl showing up.

>>41323565
Hi JKR

yeah I don't think the author ahs anything to do with it

>>41327072
I'm just saying the push wouldn't have been as bad if it was handled better. Yeah there would have been a stink but it wouldn't have been heated for years on end if Bridget was initially trans or they gave more time and had a clear plan for Bridget to reach that conclusion.

>>41327072
People love Poison

>>41323301 (OP)
crazy how this only happens in fiction when in reality its usually the other way around. trans women deserve rep like the one on the left way more than pooners do. pooners can deal with the unserious fetishizing rep instead.

>>41323301 (OP)
Pic not related? The ftm is fucking crying and acting like a woman while neverpassing. The MtT looks and acts like a normal woman. Every troon depiction is like this and it’s bullshit.
Give me some Geralt-tier bro with a throwaway, blink-and-you’ll-miss it surgical scar reveal that’s never discussed. That’s good representation. Fuck this whinging garbage. You have it all backwards.

>>41323534
I've read a lot of otokonoko manga but Hibari is definitely different from them. Most of those are like "teehee is it a boy? or a girl? who cares if they're cute!" But Hibari gets pissed or hurt when her family insists she is a boy and is all smiles whenever she is treated as a girl. She repeatedly states she is a daughter and a sister. She is sad she doesn't have breasts, she gets enraged when her hair is forcibly cut. She uses the women's showers with other women even when it isn't necessary because that's what she would do if she was a born a girl. She lives completely as a girl at her school, which is shown to be maybe the one thing she cares most about maintaining. Maybe the author did all this stuff on accident because the genre was new at the time but their are so many details and things she says that only make sense with a female identity.

>>41327260
Poison is a newhalf.

>>41324211
Imagine not maining Chipp, what a loser lmao

>>41327072
>while they've always hated trannies
Back then, hating trannies was something only psychos and reppers did, because trannies were just a blip on the cultural radar.

>>41327740
What's the difference??

>>41327740
Not even that in Japan, they just said she was "actually a guy" in the western release because US consumers weren't comfortable with seeing the MCs of Final Fight beat up women lmao

>>41327740
>>41328065
She's trans get over it

>>41328146
Not even, the narrative for pussies who can't deal with ryona is Poison is a newhalf, not the same as trans

>>41328363
uh?

>>41323330
Bridget being a transwoman is rooted in the idea that you can forcibly change someone's gender identity by forcing it onto them. Imagine if he was a transwoman but forced to be a boy (like many trannies on here), and then accepted that instead, there would be fucking riots.

>>41327359
I mean family condo would be cool but the main trannies didnt get surgery (expensive but there is an srs tranny in the manga)

Whoever wrote that right side just poorly read wiki article because that's not even the story. Regardless, Lily is the best mtf rep I've seen.

Bridget's gender is played as a joke but people intentionally misconstrue her story so they miss the actual funny part of her being trans

>>41325234
One must imagine Alice happy
(jokes aside very accurate post)

>>41329612
Also to explain
>Child actor in the early 2000s who plays girl roles
>Fears growing up and looking masculine like her dad
>one day finds a hair on her chin
>dies from gender dysphoria induced heart attack
>revived as a zombie to perform on a necromancer's idol group
>is the only member to not have any existential dread about being undead because it means she will never have to go through male puberty

>>41323328
The same applies to most authors, they literally can't wrap their heads around this shit, hell, even female characters they write are absolute dogwater. Literally feels like they've never touched a woman.

>>41324653
Togata doesn't present or act "masculine" for the very reason he cant' transition, the manic wacky girl persona is a facade she wears to hide pain and attempts at unveilling it are jarring and tortorous. It's for this very motive that he strongly opposses the idea of Agni calling him "big brother" or by any male identification. Attempts are breaching the gap between his ideal self and his current state are stained by the realness of its impossibility. He's a iwnbam, we don't see much of it because he doesn't want agni to.

>>41324653
togata is not a bad rep because she's not wish fulfillment fantasy, poonoid

>>41323328
But the author from OP's pic is male?

I forgor half the manga at this point most that I recall is me being busy staring at his tits lmao

>>41327359
>The MtT looks and acts like a normal woman
Bridget is and acts like a faggot

>>41327740
Newhalf literally means transsexual in Japan. It means she got SRS, thus has a "new" "half". Stupid motherfucker.

>>41328065
she's listed as a newhalf, not only in her concept art, but also in the manual for the JP SFC version

>>41326152
Yeah, the seethe was inevitable. I didn't really expect it to get as bad as it got, however. I'm not a feminist, and I find most of the hyper online transfeminism stuff to be grievance-based wheel turning...but it's admittedly impossible to not see the 'Whipping Girl' transmisogyny thing plastered all over this entire thing. Even as a cissoid (male).
>>41325053
Every rude assumption you are probably making about me is true.
>>41327847
Ignore Chipp posters, hide Chipp threads, etc. Fuck you!

>>41329612
>picrel was 7 years ago

well

>>41333073
He kept it intentionally vague if they were born male or female so we can't say if they were mtf or what.

>>41333073
He did go on and write an explicitly mtf antagonist for a different VN though.

What's this boards opinion on the light novel "The mimosa confessions" Read the first one. The narrator is the cis friend (future bf) of the transitioning girl.

>>41333255
Never heard of it, tell me about it.

>>41323301 (OP)
Dragona from jjba is actually good trans rep but they had to do the japanese “she’s trans but we won’t call her trans” shit

>>41333265
Written by mei hachimoku the guy who written tunnel to summer.
About a guy who lives in bumfuck nowhere japan, and who's friend (who he kinda envied prior) decided to transition, cue the drama, and romance of weird feelings and coming of age.
Reading the second volume, It's OK, but I wonder if I only like it because it's set on the early 2010s and I'm feeling nostalgic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS8GwZenI0E

>>41329749
togata is bad rep because he's barely a character and has like one scene in which being ftm is relevant, the only reason people care is because fujimoto's fanbase is all zoomer american twitteroids who get off on sniffing his farts

>>41323328
>all anime readers are moids
If you don't really know what you're talking about it's best to just listen instead.

>>41323301 (OP)
Guilty Gear's writing is fucking dogshit compared to Fire Punch, first of all. Bridget is at best just a virtue signal for American markets because people kept waving a bunch of trans flags in the creator's face.

>>41323330
Bridget suffers from issues that the majority of "trans" characters who appeared before 2010

the creators knew dick all about trans people and created a character based on stereotypes and assumptions. Then later on they tried to retroactively make the characterisation more "appropriate"

go back and watch old movies and tv shows about trnas people. like 80% of the time they are given some werid motivation because peopel hadnt even heard of gender dysphoria

>>41323301 (OP)
Shonen/seinen authors struggle to write decent female characters and you want them to write trans women? lol, lmao even

>>41333124
Yasu wouldn't act the way they were for half of herself were she cis, being trans after being raised as a girl makes more sense, same with how Lion acts about their sex.

>>41328371
I love weebs because they'll say stupid shit like trying to pretend newhalf is a totally distinct category from trans women instead of just being their equivalent of the word "shemale".

>>41334702
It's entirely legitimate to argue Yasu is trans, the author intended that to be one of the legitimate interpretations. But like I said, he left it intentionally ambiguous because of Yasu's genitals being mangled. Not even Yasu knows her birth sex, all she knows is that she has massive gender confusion and identity issues, which culminate at last in accepting a female identity. It's not like the author is particularly shy about writing trans characters, like was said, he wrote an mtf antagonist in another VN where the only way to save them is to accept them as a woman, so the ambiguity is clearly not self-censorship, but intentional.