because art has become nothing but navel gazing of narcissistic nepo babies that get participation medals just for showing up

>>24451796
Thanks for letting me know you don't understand art

I don't think people would eat that much grass the the animals would starve.

>>24451798
I do know what art could be, but it‘s not that anymore, which is why it got a bad name. Which is what you asked.

>>24451798
Dunno imagine the visual, the color clash the superflous hair colors

>>24451801
do you mean in fine art, particularly painting?

>>24451804
In almost all art forms. Ofc there is exceptions but those are not the majority.

>>24451794 (OP)
because it's mostly FAGGOTS now

leftist hijacked it and kicked out everyone who disagreed

>>24451794 (OP)
Because they've been usurped by radical leftists

>>24451814
>>24451809
what's stopping conservatoids from reading?

>>24451794 (OP)
Because they’ve been told to hate it.

>>24451818
Because waaahhh everything is woke so you shouldn’t read anything. It’s a very effective way to make your base dumber and more easy to manipulate

>>24451794 (OP)
Ressentiment. The liberal arts are leisure activities associated with the higher social castes.

>>24451794 (OP)
Out of all civilizations, India has suffered the most from excessive spiritualism. What good does it do to reach unmatched heights in religion and literature when you live in squalor?

>>24451794 (OP)
You need to differentiate between the "liberal arts" as an academic discipline within the academy (and how that trickles down to even high school classrooms) and the liberal arts as a whole. I think a lot of people have a great love of the liberal arts. Many of the most ferocious critics of what has happened to the liberal arts as a discipline think the liberal arts are essential to a functioning republic and self-governance (at both the individual and corporate level).

Those who see them as useless, who tend to see English as largely just preparatory for on-the-job writing, and want education to be rigidly technical tend to embrace highly deflationary philosophies (tending towards empiricism, utilitarianism, etc.), but also are often just responding to how completely ridiculous the liberal arts have become. We are now at a stage where Gen X is 50+ and making decisions about education and they grew up with the liberal arts already post-modernized and see little value in them. I don't think most people exposed to Homer, Virgil, Cicero, Dante, etc. find them useless. If they have been taught well, they are, at the very least, interesting, and I think most would say much more than that.

>>24451839
nta but poor and happy > rich and unhappy right?

>>24451831
As opposed to
>Waaaah! Everything is so imperialist/patriarchal/White/cis/het. Aristotle and Virgil lived at a time with slavery so we need to decolonize them out of the curricula. Boethius thinks good and bad exist and that is le bad! Don't read!

IDK, in terms of which philosophy camps seriously engage with others, Continental, and particularly the post-structuralists, are among the worst about ignoring everything they don't like. I mean, linguistic turn analytic philosophy is terrible about this too, but they are also sort of broadly "post-modern."

It's funny because the great irony is that post-moderns tend to miss how historically situated their own critiques are and how they rely on empiricist presuppositions that simply do not apply to the vast bulk of pre-modern thought (East or West).

One would think that maybe the bias towards non-Western sources could fix this, since Avicenna, Al Farabi, or all the Orthodox Church Fathers (often from places like Egypt, Syria, etc.) would show this, but these seem to be largely ignored too. When people speak of diversity, what they often mean is "moderns with different skin color and genitalia" not "different schools of thought" (or maybe the problem is that China and India, as well as Islam, also have a virtue ethics, IDK... But maybe this is because virtue ethics makes sense?)

>>24451794 (OP)
Because the liberal arts people are the ones pushing anti white hatred.

>>24451839
the squalor is relatively recent when considering our history. your own visitors described our cities as among the greatest in the world, just 500 years ago. but I think this point is lost on people who've already made up their mind.

>>24451852
There’s a big difference between
>don’t ever read anything
and
>we don’t have to venerate and read just these specific texts because some dudes centuries ago decided they were the only canon that mattered

>tfw all your greatest interests would have made you super cool a century ago
>now they just make you seem like a weirdo
Why couldn't I have been born a STEMcel or a financebro? Why did god have to make me an il/lit/erate who's into art, and reading, and history, and shit?

>>24451794 (OP)
Societal pressures pushing normal people, particularly men, to more economically pragmatic interests for many decades, resulting in the liberal arts now being dominated by weird freaks whose appreciation for art is now totally unpalatable to anyone normal

>>24451794 (OP)
I will respond in connection with the image.
Because arts are not beautiful anymore.
Literature, music, and arts where beautiful in ancient and medieval India. Art could produce different moods (bhava) but still beauty was a prerequisite. The best mood, according to Abhinavagupta, at least, was that of peace and tranquility that could bring a spectator/listener to recognize one's true essence.
If you check Western arts and literature, aesthetical enjoyment was important until about the middle of the 20th century. Joyce was a realist, but he wrote with impeccable style. Lovecraft was a purveyor of horror, but he wrote with great aesthetics that helped him to stay relevant in the long run. If eh wrote about Cthulhy in Onyx Storm's pedestrian style, he would've been utterly forgotten by the time 60s rolled about. The farther back in time you go, the more the aesthetic element, that of beauty, dominates. You could write about anything, and it would be appreciated as long as it was beautiful.
Nowadays art - literature, music, art - is most of the time ugly. And the ugliness is excused on the ground that "everything is relative." I don't think that's true. Most people, even the ones not trained in academia, still appeciate skill and beauty on a gut level. Many may not know the full intricacies of Shakespeare, but still appreciated the language. The same with Dante. Isn't Finnegans Wake as manifesto of this sentiment? That even somewhat incomprehensible things may still be skillful and beautiful to the ear?
The problem is a a lack of aesthetic beauty, which boils down to lack of sensitive perception and skill. Lack of IQ, if you want. Anyone can tape a banana to a wall. Not anyone can write a line close to something from Shakespeare's Tempest, from Dante's Comedia, from Milton's Paradise Lost, even from Joyce's Ulysses or Nabokov's Lolita or Pynchon's Gravity's Rainbow.
>>24451839
>What good does it do to reach unmatched heights in religion and literature when you live in squalor?
India wasn't always a shithole.
The writers were highly educated, highly privileged brahmins who lived in the king's court.
India didn't have historically a preoccupation with authorhood, which makes dating works and discerning what one author wrote and what was added by others difficult. Although the added material isn't that much worse.
The subaltern culture was still better, richer, more aesthetic than contemporary postmodernist blue dyke crap. Almost everyone knows what tantra is, which originally was an Indian equivalent of voodoo. No one gives a fuck about the menstrual writing number 27860 of some self obsessed obese spic woman who can talk about nothing except feminist buzzwords.

>>24451794 (OP)
Because most people believe that liberal arts in Academia have been coopted by idiotic woke people who don't read anything older than 200 years because "dead white males"

>religious authority
>uhh it's actually better for you to be dumb as fuck
>but ignore our own institutions that let you live extremely comfortably if you're educated

>>24451796
>medals
>art
Erm da black won da award. Fuck off you retard.

>>24451798
>Thanks for letting me know you don't understand art
I *love* art. But, art to me? I think of going to the museum, and seeing reproductions of great works of art. A naked woman straddling two ladder tops, splattering menstrual blood onto a canvas? Not my idea of "art".
And a degree in liberal arts, well... its about as useful as a degree in women's studies. Except perhaps less so, women's studies are now preferred to work in woke HR departments. Two jokers in NY, once took a chimpanzee, and taught it to make wipes on canvas. All the big critics raved. Then, they brought the "artist" out, to own them. There's an elephant at the san francisco zoo, they taight to make "modern art". When a elephant or a chimpanzee can equal your "art"? Its not... art. Sistine chapel, Michaelangelo's david. The slave of Velazquez... this is art. A madonna statue made out of feces and clear coated? Is not "art". Neither is wiping your brushes on a canvas.

>>24452201
>taight

>>24452201
Why is a sculpture made of feces not art? Just because it's obscene?

>>24451908
Let's be real, "decolonization" normally means reading exclusively far-left propaganda. It certainly did in my experience.

The Canon is the Canon for a reason. It isn't arbitrary. No one says modern literature cannot be read. But the works ok the Canon are the basis of Western culture. Even if they weren't better (and they are, talents like Virgil are incredibly rare), they would be more valuable simply due to the shared culture they give access too.

If people are butthurt about Trump and illiberalism, they might consider how eradication the foundation of republican life from education allowed for such a demagogue.

>>24452201
Yeah, this is definitely part of it. I like some contemporary art. I even like its weirdness. I find it very sad and tired how every artist feels the need to say it is a critique of imperialism, racism, or capitalism. That and some of it is just shit. Literally. One I saw was literally just random shit smears like a baby would make... (it was a critique of patriarchy and capitalism...)

>>24452241
Right, Jordan Peterson is the type of "intellectual" you get when people are starved for thymos and meaning and have never been exposed to Homer, etc. in any meaningful way.

>>24451798
>Bend that ass over (baow), let that coochie breathe (yeah)
Shake that ass, bitch, hands on your knees (ho)
Hands on your knees (ho), hands on your knees (now)
Shake that ass for Drake (yup), now shake that ass for me
Bend that ass over (baow), let that coochie breathe (yeah)
Shake that ass, bitch, hands on your knees
Hands on your knees, hands on your knees
Shake that ass for Drake (yeah), now shake that ass for me

>>24451831
Didn't stop Pol Pot.

>>24451924
Most developed nations have welfare systems, which provides a crutch for the poor that their ancestors never had. This makes normal people freer to produce art than never before.
Of course, real artists never gave give a shit about poverty anyway. They were prepared to starve in the service of their muse.

>>24452207
No, because it's a transparent attention-grabbing ploy with no innate merit.
We live in an age where media exposure determines your prosperity as an artist. This makes most contemporary art indistinguishable from advertising.

>>24452687
What is the innate merit in shaping something from clay? Art is meant to grab attention. If someone sculpts something beautiful with their own feces (or someone else's I suppose) I don't see why that can't be fine art. Throw in the fact that you're turning something usually disgusting into something beautiful on top and you have a theme too.

>>24452704
Clay is a malleable (not to say hygienic) substance which allows for precise shaping. Shit, not so much.

>>24452704
>Art is meant to grab attention
Wrong, and what a sad comment on our times.

>>24452749
Wouldn't that make the skill to shape shit more impressive.
>>24452755
That's not its sole purpose, but if you want people to be impacted by your art you have to grab their attention. Art for art's sake is great too, but of course most great artists wanted their work to be appreciated.

>>24452763
>if you want people to be impacted by your art you have to grab their attention
Throughout most of history, the people who actually bought art were refined men of taste, who would disdain cheap attempts to get their attention.
Of course nowadays we have the more clueless corporate or celebrity buyers, who genuinely don't give a shit about artistic merit. All they care about is whether the work can be sold on for a higher price, or if it will impress their vapid friends. This is why, as I have said, modern art has effectively become a branch of advertising.

>>24452795
I mean I agree with that for the most part. I am just hung up on the shit sculpture as an example of not being art, as an aspiring shit sculpturist I don't see why it can't be.

Liberal arts in academia were taken over by ideologues and "theorists" whose work is at best totally irrelevant to any meaningful human experience, and at worst is antagonistic toward it.

Study of literature, history, philosophy, etc formed the core of the vaunted "classical education". These were studies which imparted to young scholars a deep understanding of their culture, the context in which they lived, and was the bedrock of wisdom for a new generation of leaders. Young people went to university to study the liberal arts, primarily, because it was what civilization was all about. There's no real point to all this striving if it's just for bare survival, mere reproductive success. We could achieve these modest ambitions with far less difficulty, indeed our far distant ancestors managed it without writing or anything more complex than tools fashioned from rocks and bones.

The continuation of human society is justified through cultural achievement, not scientific advancement. There is no point to new technology if all that awaits you is an endless treadmill of incremental scientific progress. Forever progressing, toward what? Why? The answer to that can be found in the halls of liberal arts.

>>24451794 (OP)
Mostly because gen eds, which is essentially what comprises a liberal arts education, is time wasting and charging people tens of thousands of dollars when most programs could be 2 years and prepare people more appropriately for the real world. It was less burdensome and thus worthwhile when individual classes didn’t cost 2-5K each

>>24451794 (OP)
Stembugcel era, unfortunately.
>>24451796
Obviously the current day art scene and humanities departments are a day care for retarded upper class kids and their pets, but that doesn't mean the liberal arts in general are trash. The liberal arts are the only thing of any real worth on this earth.

>>24451798
Nice projection there

>>24451794 (OP)
>Why is there so much hatred towards the 'liberal arts'?
Have you been to the liberal arts section of a collage campus?
If you haven't then please go to one and you will figure out very quickly why they are hated.

But if you are unwilling or just want to play the fool.
Liberal arts are just a radical far leftist skinsuit at this point used to push social justice, critical theory, queer theory, and other flavors of commie bullshit.
It isn't a legitimate area of study. It's just 100% propaganda and mental conditioning for a retarded pseudo-religion confused for a political movement.
There is no truth, no reality, nothing real world useful. Just indoctrination into nonsense.

>>24452868
If you have a puerile mind (as most 18 year olds do), it makes sense to be afraid of college campuses. There's tons of insane brain melting ideas and negative peer pressure. But if you are an actual intellectual determined to carve out your own independent worldview, doing a liberal arts degree will be very useful. It will make you angry and raise your blood pressure, but you will learn much about thinking, and also all about the enemy's methods and ideas.
Every time someone tries to sell me something, I ask myself, "what does this person want me to believe by telling me this, and is there an alternative viewpoint". And while this is a totally deranged way to live, it helped me navigate college with all of my intellectual independence intact. I am very glad I went. I only wish I could go back in time and study Classics instead of History, and also wish I had taken a gap year to study Plato beforehand.

>>24451796
This, we need to defund art in schools

>>24452901
Ah yes, giving tens of thousands of dollars to commies that hate you so you can learn from them how to think is totally winning and makes you the intellectual.

Sounds like cope/sunk cost.
You already spent the money, time, and effort that were utterly wasted, so now you are trying to justify to yourself that it wasn't a total loss.

>>24452868
This is tragically true, and increasingly so. I say this as a former naive-autist-loner kid who made the plan to read all of Shakespeare’s plays in high school on my own time, and got about 80% close to that goal. More minor or somewhat more obscurer ones like Titus Andronicus, The Merry Wives of Windsor, Pericles, Timon of Athens, etc., on that list of what I did ultimately get through.
Why do I bring that up?
I guess it’s to make clear I’m not just some retarded brute who likes going on /lit/ a lot without actually reading much literature in real life. And that I was basically one of the more sincerely fitting candidates for something like a liberal arts degree, or English degree. Head-in-the-clouds pie-in-the-sky kid who just loved literature, a lot. But. anyway, like you I guess, I became disillusioned from the fact that a massive part of most liberal arts curricula today, including especially in higher education, is just politics now.

>>24452241
You see much right wing literature about decolonisation?

>>24452868
If you want to just read about white men you can do that on your own time. Crying about having to maybe accept and look at criticism and diversified view points instead of worshipping the canon that has largely been built around dismissing and and accepting other voices due to historical segregation and discrimination in society is a myopic view of literature and arts.

>>24453454
Cute strawman.

I don't give a shit about race/identity bullshit.
I was clear about my problem with the liberal arts as they currently are. Just because you don't like my view doesn't mean you can substitute my argument with something easier to dismiss by implying my intolerance for hateful commie bullshit as white identity politics.

>>24451794 (OP)
i dont think people have a hatred towards the liberal arts, but there may be some hatred towards liberal artists

>>24451794 (OP)
More like the fucking DEGENERATE ARTS

Friggin liberals ruin everything

>>24451794 (OP)
Would i be wrong in thinking that one of the problems is that the "classical liberal education" is no longer a part of a working man's education?

because most arts faculties were co-opted by people higher up for their own agendas

>>24451794 (OP)
It's not efficient, therefore not necessary, we must make more money.

Tech retard here. Would it be possible to set up an AI to be like a lib arts professor? It can recommend reading, and then test knowledge and ask question etc?

>>24451885
You wipe your ass with your hand, say thank you for providing your shithole with internet

>>24451794 (OP)
Because this sort of inclination towards the arts is a hallmark of nobility, and when the nobility are not fulfilling their role in the social hierarchy the lower class revolts. It's a similar sociological effect as when the nobility mismanages the nation or fails to defend it in war. Our artists, or at least the ones who are propped up, are shit.

>here's that based, redpilled art against the modern world I was telling you about.

>>24453992
How is worshipping the canon as being untouchable and beyond critique, dismissing any other works or alternative viewpoints as immediately hateful/bad not at least partially about just white identitarianism? You’re clearly angry and upset over it and bitch about communism like a right wing nitwit

>>24454580
>How is worshipping the canon as being untouchable and beyond critique, dismissing any other works or alternative viewpoints as immediately hateful/bad not at least partially about just white identitarianism?
he's gone and said it!

>>24451794 (OP)
because it's another word for leftism

>>24454540
>IT'S NOT A BANANA ON WALL SHUT IT DOWN

>>24454580
Even more strawmen.
Just confirming you are utterly unable to actually address my criticism at all. So you must make shit up that wasn't said nor implied.

>>24451794 (OP)
>One who has no inclination towards literature, music/dance and arts, is literally an animal without a tail and horns.
Good.

>>24451839
How dare they not worship the GDP like us good goys

>>24454319
Yeah we wash it clean with water instead of smearing it with a tissue troonie. Seethe more.

>>24455513
You stink, turn away dalit bitch

>>24451794 (OP)
> Why is there so much hatred towards the 'liberal arts'?
There's virtually no hate towards the arts themselves.
The hate is almost entirely targeted at the carreer path and in particular education.
Why the fuck do you need to go to college to just to become an artist?
Go to college to learn an useful and practical trade or science and learn art on your free time.

>>24451839
They're the most dramatic example of how imperial civilization doesn't last. The Indo-Aryans were nomadic warrior geniuses, for some inexplicable reason they decided to settle among the brown people they conquered and everything would work out as long as they enforced caste. Fast forward a thousand years, the entire nation is slave caste. Every fucking time.

>>24455520
Friendly reminder to dilate and change your pronouns on LinkedIn anon

>>24455528
The brown people *are* the legendary "aryans" dumbfuck. The only question is whether the blacks in the southernmost part of India are the indigenous people or not. The shit /pol/fags believe to justify their Nazi aryan theories kek.

>>24453454
>Pretending anyone other than white men matters
>Even once
See, this is why nobody takes the arts seriously anymore. You've gone into a fugue where you ignore human beings and focus on subhuman animal creatures and the human beings don't like it. Who knew?

In the majority of contexts ive heard it used in a derogatory way it was always as a "youll never get a good paying job if you pursue them in school" way. Our society is utilitarian and views stuff like art as not practical

>>24455558
I understand exactly why you wrote this, but all it is is a kneejerk response.

>>24455561
can anyone tell me if this is related to the huge quantity of brown people who do nothing but work all day

>>24455573
Don't (You) at me, mouthbreather. If I want any lip from you I'll take it off my zipper.

>>24451834
Agreed in general, but I'd put it more in terms of aperture to leisure, than to social caste per se. Today I was thinking about this while doting on my highly thought-out and carefully manicured, if small, garden in the unusual NEET place I've retired to. I thought about many things, for instance the general resemblance between stoicism and epicureanism, the look of orange impatiens petals via a loupe under July sun when I was 25, while the Theresa Berganza version of a certain aria from Alcina plays in the head, how much the older Wallace Stevens would have enjoyed sailing interstates near me, in what I drive at 62.

>>24455582
Brown people are quite the opposite in my opinion. For most of us life is a celebration and nothing else really matters. People work just so they can enjoy life with the money they get. That's why there's comparatively less brown people interested in curing cancer or building a time machine or something. I used to hate this attitude earlier but I don't know anymore.

>>24455598
Happier individuals perhaps, but look at what it hath wrought on society. No advancement in the last 50 years worth noting, no serious space program, no flying cars, and the entire human race has essentially been reduced to tard wrangling and hopelessness.

You were right to hate that attitude, it just wasn't for the right reasons. Turns out that foresight and advancement is something that comes from the centralization of wealth, resources and labor from many places under a comparitively few rich, civilized nations so that they have the time, inclination and ability to overturn established science in the name of something new - having everyone south of brown break up that wealth and use it for something as banal as enjoying life just leaves us all in a stagnant, endlessly declining, vaguely brown shithole.

>>24455603
True but hasn't it always been doubtful whether all that advancement has really made human life 'happier'. It seems like the average level of happiness has always remained more or less constant throughout history. You may have had a shorter but probably happier life in the past but it's the opposite now.

>>24455603
You are a manchild with deeply unserious opinions.

>>24455603
Browns affirming life is more sustainable than endless striving towards a faustian ideal, which may just as well be the ultimate culmination of a geist headed towards annihilation and entropy.

>>24455623
Why thank you. I suppose if you don't like what I have to say, that's a pretty good barometer for me being right.

>>24455635
>Implying sustainable is a good thing when everyone has to live in brownlandia
By the time any such future is attained it will already be over for the human race. Striving for more is all humanity ever really had, annihilation and entropy are a natural part of the condition of all things which exist, and cannot be avoided.

Happiness is immaterial, and especially the happiness of browns, which has the baked-in consequence of them having taken everything they have in life from the advancement and work of actual civilization, on top of continuing to drain humanity of its resources and hope by existing. Its a net negative really, at least when civilization was striving for a future, we were galvanizing people in the pursuit of something constructive. Now we're galvanizing people in the pursuit of twerking videos on TikTok. Nothing good can come of it.

>>24455534
I'll make sure to do that after sifting through the 10000 friend requests from desperate jobless pajeets trying to find someone that wants them

>>24455663
To that end it seems to hold a certain logic that as potentially disastrous as tech is, if it can help us get to either genetic engineering or more advanced robotics to do the slave work that's what's going to free civilization of its reliance on manpower that will ultimately degenerate us as a race.
Or at least that's one option. There's at least a few ways out of this conundrum however none of them are on the table within our cultural frame.

>>24455589
*Generally, the same principle goes when it comes to science as for art. Hardly anyone knows or cares about what a Wolf-Rayet star is, but I have my favorite, Alnilam. I suppose only about 1/10,000 North Americans have seen M11 through a backyard Newtonian, or know how insanely compact and efficient thermonuclear weapons have been since the mid 80s. Sometimes I picture one in my room. It weighs about 350kg, is a cone about 1.5 meters tall, about .7 meters at the base, and with a yield of about 200 kilotons. Rather a lot of expense and engineering has gone into such designs, far too much.

>>24455669
You do that and be happy for the time it lasts anon. By the looks of it, you'll soon be begging Indian managers on LinkedIn to accept your job application soon kek.

>>24455707
Whatever helps you cope with the fact you were born at the bottom, street dog

>>24455743
Okay cummie. Have a nice nap after taking your HRT now okay?

>>24455759
>t. The joke race

>>24455759
Look at you on an English literature board, speaking masters language

>>24451796
Art, like everything in culture is aimed to deconstruct and dismantling. Liberalism and everything coming from it is negative, after all. So its no longer pointing towards beauty or truth, or try to inspire.

>>24455707
I'd appreciate more gratitude considering untold numbers of your people would be starving if not for the magnanimity of mine to allow you to take jobs in our country preparing food and driving us around, which are almost totally extraneous positions fuelled by the conveniences of pure decadence which you did nothing to create.

>>24451794 (OP)
sabre rattling from shits who don't give a fuck about science but think of it as a useful stick to beat people with. Its their faut stem is now steam .

>>24452241
>Let's be real, "decolonization" normally means reading exclusively far-left propaganda. It certainly did in my experience.
why blame others for your past self being dumb though. what is your experince anyways

>>24451794 (OP)
Every faggot who said judgemental superficial shit like this should've been punched in the teeth, not immortalised in history.

>>24452207
>>24452704
>>24452806
Why are you so obsessed with shit?

>>24451885
i want to try some authentic indian food but your people seem very mean to outsiders in all the travel videos i've seen

>>24451796
This, but specifically the Californian liberal who has a sort of xenophile attitude. Obsessed with virtue signalling and "uplifting" brown people. It's become rather pointless.

>>24451796
>nepo baby
your terminology betrays your origin pauper. The Arts ARE aristocratic by nature. Anything belong to -- by coming from -- the riffraff is vulgar slop.
Your resentment of that which is high, your attempt at dismal of the high, won't increase your aesthetic appeal. The Good remains Good and the Beautiful will remain Beautiful.
Begone, to the depths of the pit!