A general for readers and authors involved or interested in the growing phenomenon of 'web novels', serialized English fiction posted to websites such as:
>Royalroad, Webnovel, Scribblehub, Wattpad, Archive of Our Own, Spacebattles, HFY, various personal author websites, and more

>Why read web novels?
Not for prose or tight editing or deep themes, frankly. As a whole, web novels are infamous for content sprawl and pacing issues. If you enjoy having millions of words to sink your teeth into to get to know the world and characters, though, you may be interested. Keeping up with other readers on a weekly basis to discuss the story's events unfolding is another perk, in the same way discussing an ongoing TV show might be.

>Why write web novels?
Ease of access & potential for Patreon earnings. Many successful authors gain an audience on their website of choice and funnel their readers into a Patreon. See https://graphtreon.com/top-patreon-creators/writing for an idea of what some are earning.
Also, once an author has earned a fanbase, transitioning into an Amazon self-publishing career is several orders of magnitude easier than starting 'dry'.

Previous: >>24460169

Post your samples nerds I'll tell you what you're doing wrong.

>genuinity
I'm officially throwing out all writing advice I receive on /lit/. The man who wrote that word is making thousands of dollars a month on patreon. Quality doesn't matter AT ALL.

>>24475202
*prose doesn't matter
i've been telling you fuckers that content, pacing, characters, etc is what you need to focus on for forever now
prose ONLY matters if it's so bad it agitates the reader...which admittedly does happen here

>>24475212
Scribblehub is full of ESL who need to fix that before anything else.

>>24475272
scribblehub is a tiny site only used for smut stories, so yeah

Reverend Insanity is the only one worth reading.

What are some common web novel tropes that might be fun to satirize or parody? I’ve been working on a series of short stories—almost like episodes of a tv show—which is a parody of “Soulful White Boy in a Strange Land” type stories (e.g Shogun, Lawrence of Arabia, Dune) as well as Martial Arts films (think of the overall tone as being similar to Rush Hour, but with more politics). Since it’s also an Isekai web novel I think parodying some aspects of these stories might give it more appeal and heighten the humor. I already have a harem episode coming up and a play on the trope of the “chosen one who is stronger than everyone else” (he’s simply a tall white guy who worked out regularly, which makes him larger)

>>24475306
* Princess of the Void is alright in scribblehub.
* Up In Space was well written but the story just doesn't go anywhere so I quit.
* Reborn as a Space Mercenary: I suppose I should have expected isekai near-RPG slop and slop is what I got. I read 23 chappies before getting bored.
* Anything by Steelz. Yandere step-incest is what he's about. If that's your thing, read him. Otherwise don't.
* Alchimia Rex. Harem... sort of? in a grimdark postapoc fantasy world. It's a spinoff of an earlier thing ravnicrasol did. It's confusing to get into this story without reading his other stories. Which I don't want to read, so I quit reading this too.

This is a dumb question, but are you allowed to cross post from Royalroad, Webnovel, Scribblehub, etc?
Or is it just depending on the site's rules?

>>24474195
Damn dude, I specifically said I wanted to hear you explain what parts of these stories you like and that I'm not here to argue or diss your response, and not only do you refuse to answer but get all hostile too.

>>24475212
>*prose doesn't matter
>i've been telling you fuckers that content, pacing, characters, etc is what you need to focus on for forever now
>prose ONLY matters if it's so bad it agitates the reader...which admittedly does happen here

I concur. There is some minimum bar to prose ability. You have to hit that bar, obviously. Anything better, is a plus. Now that said, I was just doing *okay*.
>
I wanted to try something, so as an exercise its normal for me to take a boring, run of the mill premise idea. And just pretend I'm writing a book. I'm trying out the technique the exercise was even for. Thing was, I couldn't believe how well it was turning out. I had to finish it. When I was done, it proofed and edited easily. Tight, linear, solid 225 page pulp paperback noir. 80K words.
>
I had done a trilogy and a separate 8 volume works, with these same characters. (can you say sprawl? lol) so, this "experiment" was with characters I knew inside and out and was very used to working with.
>
Basic premise. all work with characters and dialog. Whatever prose ability I already have, seems to work now. That work was very concise, read-able. I Immediately did it again. This time, the simple idea came from that 11 volume backstory like the first golden egg,
>
Same thing. Forced basic premise. Al work with characters and dialog. Well known and developed characters. I guess I'm pretending the 11 volumes doesn;t exist. This second time, generated a international thriller I liked. A little longer, but given the linear story, I liked it. Again, readable and accessible.
I'm doing the same thing a third time. If I can finish it and like it, I will have generated three "winners" by ignoring the 11 volumes of sprawl that came before. Maybe if I can get some fane of these three good ones, any interest will allow them to maybe appreciate the trilogy or the 8 volume stories.
>
Basic simple premise. Have a beginning scene in mind, and an ending scene in mind. I like to pencil in whatever change happens, around half way through. This is where any big reveal, change of anything happens. Its easy to pencil in sentence fragments of guilelines for chapters around this skeleton.
Using characters I know inside and out, that backstory collection... seems to be another key ingredient.

>>24475619
>Al work with characters and dialog.
typo,
ALL work with characters and dialog.

Anyone else burnt out on xianxia?
Trends are cyclical and I think the scene is ready for more wuxia again

>>24475598
I've seen several crossposts on RR, Scribblehub, and AO3, and a few anons in previous threads even mentioned posting on all 3 themselves.

>>24475612
>I was hoping you'd think about it a little more than that, but I guess if you were capable of such we wouldn't have this conversation.
Lol, you're telling me this bitchy little insult you tacked on is just how you talk and you weren't purposefully being hostile? You must be miserable irl

>>24475768
i have an unhinged idea for a WN.

writing a classical wuxia story with its tropes but it’s set in Western Europe during a time period. imagine Oliver Cromwell using his immense might and “God-Given Fists” to crush a parliamentarian’s chest in from a distance of 40 feet and thus establishing his reign as Lord Protector of the Commonwealth. replace Oliver Cromwell with a historical chinese rebel or warlord and set it in china and you get wuxia.

>>24476139
Wasn't there a story like that set in Rome that wss big a couple years ago?

>>24476241
This one?
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/41330/virtuous-sons-a-greco-roman-xianxia

>>24476274
I think that's the one. Never read it myself, just remember it being the brought up around here a few times.

>>24476279
Same, the description rung a bell as it's quite high in the "best ongoing" category.

Remember to read my series, almost 50,000 words are already out!

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/119783/fff-class-unlucky-antagonist-villains-origin-story

i linked my story once and I will not link it again.

>>24476932
Why?

>>24476573
Old paintings in the public domain can have a lot of untapped potential for web novel covers which I feel you didn't make the most of. Even slightly better typography would have made it a lot better

>>24476935
i have autism. If nobody looked at it the first time it is because nobody cares. Posting the link again will only build this to active dislike by being annoying. This is how my mind works.

>>24476962
Did you ask for feedback or did you just dump it in the thread?
Even if your story is good the odds it meets someone's sensibilities is low. Taste is everything. But if you ask for feedback you'll usually get at least a comment or two on the prose / front page material / etc

>>24476937
Sadly, I've no editing skills.
Feel free to advise me on the right font.

>>24476962
Maybe you posted while the Europeans were asleep?

>>24476970
because it's been going for so long feedback for the first few chapters isn't interesting because my writing has evolved so much since then. I got feedback in /wg/ last year and it came down to "you should write the main character differently because I would find it more interesting that way" which is uh, interesting advice to be sure.

>>24477059
Have you posted it on Royal Road? You read mine, I’ll read yours, thenwe follow each other and give five-star. Deal?

>>24477062
>Have you posted it on Royal Road?
yes

>>24477075
link?

>>24477079
only because you asked
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/63818/the-crow-and-the-rabbit

>>24477087
Oh, you're the guy who actually commented on my eighth chapter?
I read the first chapter of your horse-girl racing story, LOL. Sadly, it's not really my kind of story.

>>24477092
>I read the first chapter of your horse-girl racing story, LOL.
don't do that, i only put it there so it was easier to link since AO3 has a huge waitlist.
>Sadly, it's not really my kind of story.
F in the chat

>>24477099
>F in the chat
I'm speaking about the horse-girl story. I'm gonna read the elf one.

>>24477103
oh, yeah that's the serious one.

>>24477113
Finished Chapter One.
I kinda didn’t like it, mainly because it felt way too long, and the MC talks a lot for what her personality is suppose to be.
That said, the writing is vivid. I’ll read ten more chapters before making a real judgment.

>I'm too shy to share my story.
>100k views
Anon...I

>>24476990
For more obvious visual impact, I was almost going to suggest whatever readable non-meme blackletter-style typeface you liked on Google Fonts but after reading your blurb and seeing the Italian (?) names, maybe go with something roman-inspired like Cormorant in a heavier weight. I believe (Renaissance) Italians generally disliked blackletter and gothic type and considered them barbaric but feel free to ignore this typography autist if none of the roman typefaces speak to you.
You could also watch a basic YouTube tutorial to give the text a bevel effect in Photoshop (or Photopea which is a browser-based clone). Good luck!

>>24477208
Not him but I'm putting my first ebook together, what font should/can I use? I'm dumb and don't want to think about it too much, what's the "safe" font?

>>24477227
>Cover
It depends on your genre and vibe you're going for. Any other details?
>Body text
Garamond would be safe

How are you formatting it? In something like Atticus?

>>24477169
i started writing it before I knew about webnovels. The first 2-3 chapters are way too long for the format. I later go to a standard 4.5~ and then cut that down to 3.5k~

>views
i'm too shy to shill my story. I share it wherever I can but after posting the link once or twice I start to feel like I'm being annoying.

>>24477263
Garamond it is then, thanks.
I have no idea, I know a guy who made a book before so I was going to ask him how he did it (also on RR) and just take his formatting, make the inner margin a bit bigger than he did, and call it good.

For the cover I'm having my cousin, who's an artist, do the art and help me with the typesetting. But it's going to be pretty simple.

My only other concern is that I'm writing side content for it and I'm at 36k words and it might hit 50k words, maybe more. So the whole novel is going to blow up from like 60k to 110k words. It's going to be a slop doorstopper.

>>24477359
110k is on the short end for western web slop book 1s

>>24477208
>Italian
Only the protagonist is "Italian," the rest of the cast is mainly "French," "German," "Scandinavian," and "Celtic."
>Cormorant or Blackletter
There’s a reason I chose that font. It looks great in the top-left corner of the cover without covering the characters’ faces or other key visual elements.
Also, I’m aiming for a font with a modern look, since my story blends LitRPG with Classic Fantasy.

NOW I’M WAITING FOR YOUR GENIUS TO FIND A SOLUTION!!!
>>24477314
> I share it wherever
advice places

>>24477388
Seriously? LNs barely hit 50k, sometimes less, and they sell for $18 physical these days. People are making their volumes too big.

>>24477359
If you're just doing for fun, any amount is fine, but if you want to get famous and/or make a living of it you got to pump that word count.

>>24477406
Different markets anon. Most light novels also get an editor, ~5 illustrations and sometimes even diverge from the web original, none that seems to be common with western publications afaik.

>>24477409
Well half or more of the book is going to be new compared to RR so it'll be a good deal, I guess. And yeah I will wind up with a hell of a word count. I'm just surprised.

>>24477417
Oh yeah the western pipeline is way less developed than the Japanese pipeline. Western publishers are shooting themselves in the foot not exploiting the popular WNs and their built in audiences. Now people know about self-publishing and tradpub will have to make a really good case for why they deserve 90% of the profits rather than Amazon just taking, what, 25%?

>>24477437
>Western publishers are shooting themselves in the foot not exploiting the popular WNs
most of these "popular" wns have niche appeal and while they make the author rich they dont put out big numbers like actually big books
the biggest litrpg is like, an middle level success in trad pub numbers

the reason ln and wns are bigger in Japan is because its a pipeline into anime which is huge. the west has no such thing

>>24477406
>People are making their volumes too big.
It doesn't really matter. The market is Kindle Unlimited and you get paid for for page reads. Not just that, Audible is sometimes the bigger moneymaker and people will only spend their token on hefty books (15 to 20 hour run time). So making your book short might even be bad overall.
Kinda depends. But ~135k is a good sweet spot

>>24477359
Cool, good luck with the project!

>>24476139
Sure, why not? You could probably even tap into some HEMA stuff along with Early Modern philosophy for your System©

>>24477403
Interesting. Personally, I think the typeface you used looks amateurish and the low res image doesn't help. If a traditional roman font is too staid, maybe a flared serif like Marcellus could be a good way to express some modernity while still being genre-appropriate. If you're absolutely set on a sans serif typeface, there are still better options but I'm not sure how well they'd go with a renaissance era painting
also, all caps generally look better with wider tracking (the space between letters)
>top-left corner
this isn't a problem — your title can live there. Layout is a different issue anyway

>>24477403
>advice places
RR forums, I check the rec forum and if anyone is looking for something where it fits, I'll drop it there. Helps if you can get in sooner rather than later to benefits to be checking regularly but I'm often lazy about that, I'll check daily for a week or so and then forget about it for months.
I post on social media about it. I'm not sure how successful that is. I doubt those people know how to read but maybe one or two will look.
More successful people will probably have better insight. People say buying an ad helps a lot.

>>24477571
>More successful people will probably have better insight
for web pub your title cover blurb and chapter 1 should do all your marketing. everything else is noise
>buying an ad helps a lot
it helps get onto rising stars when you start, and i guess if you can drop 50 bucks every month or so you can pick up some followers over time. meh, though. don't pump money into something that doesn't have natural virality. you're just putting lipstick on a pig

how can i tell my readers a female character has an enormous rack without sounding cringe

>>24477625
have a throwaway villain leer at her tits/harass her

>>24477625
Definitely mention it every time the character is mentioned. Make it her defining feature. Give her an internal struggle over it. You can also think about the reverse: how to tell your readers a character has a massive cock without it being cringe.

>>24475619
so are they selling or what

>>24477819
>so are they selling or what
The big deal to me, is that several of them just "read like a book", and its not annoying for me to read them for the umpteenth time. Selling? Hell, no. According to every opinion and everythig I ever read.
If I just plop book on Amazon? I get nowhere, even if it actually is a great book. I need, web presence, launch, all that. So... I wait. My catalog grows and I get better.

>>24477917
what's your deal with commas lol

>>24477625
Have her deal with stuff that women with large breasts deal with
>Her shirt was ill-fitting
>She complained about not getting enough sleep because her chest hurt when she laid
>A passing guy gawked at her

>>24477625
unironically I had a habit of 'folding arms under breasts'.

>>24475598
No one cares. Though signing a contract with Webnovel gives them exclusivity rights.

>>24477625
Have another female character grab her breasts in the showers and say how she wishes hers were that big.

>>24477975
this is good

>>24477929
Wapsi Square webcomic, in its earlier years, was good here. The author was an obvious gooner but he did at least attempt to understand the character.

>>24474794 (OP)
What does a shout-out swap involve?
Will I look like a gay retard if I agree to do one?

>>24478246
It involves publicly sucking off another dude. And yes.

>>24476064
I gave up on being nice when it came clear you were only wasting my time and had no intention to participate. I even answered all your dumb fucking questions seriously thinking you'd return the favor after. Damn right I will insult you now, you autistic little cretin.

>>24478452
Fuck off back to /wg/

>>24478246
You post a link to someone else's story at the beginning or end of your chapter(or both). Usually you'll be grabbing a formatting code to show off their cover and blurb.
However, the blurbs are often long. Putting a 600 word blub before a 2000 word chapter looks like ass. I would suggest putting the cover + link and writing a short paragraph of recommendation because not only does it look better but it also shows you actually read the thing instead of just agreeing to shill without even looking at it.(sucking off another dude)

Damn I love dropping a 5k word chappie after two weeks of not posting

interesting points on genre, mode, and voice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOmTvC77p9w

>>24477625
>how do I describe big boobs without sounding cringe?
Your question is wrong and shows why you struggle. What you really want to know is:
>how do I describe big boobs while sounding incredibly based?
This is a far easier question to answer. A based author knows big tits on a pretty girl will trigger feminists and faggots no matter how delicately he approaches the subject. A based author would unapologetically describe those tits as if they were the most important part of the whole story. A based author would say,
>Yes, they're D cups. Yes, her nipples are hard and pink and smell faintly of milk. Yes, even when I am not describing her wonderous, Valkyrie-like tits, they are still part of the subtext of every scene, on every page. When she runs, I will not write it, but you may think to yourself 'boing, boing, boing, boing...' The men stare. The women pout with envy. It happens too often to transcribe every time. Read on and maybe I will describe them in their fully bare glory when she takes a bath. But for now you will only be graced with their deep curvature, their tasteful symmetry, their gracious bounce, behind the tight embrace of sarashi wrappings. And that will suffice, for now.
That is what a based author would do.

>>24478866
>only D cups
>based

>>24479082
boobs are offputting when they get too big

>>24479082
Shall we start a lit thread into the discussion of breast appreciation in literature? Would be popular.

>the first chapter introduces 10+ character names, each with a forgettable nickname/sobriquet and each coming from a different village neighbouring a different town in close proximity to a different city belonging to different regions/provinces with all place names being mentioned
why do people do this?

>>24479132
JUST 10?!
>>24476573
I did this for 30 names---IN EACH CHAPTER!!!

>>24479082
honestly, in my unapologetically coomer opus all the girls are either flat chested or B cups, but I thought I'd appeal to the lowest common denominator in my shitpost.

>>24479139
that sounds incomprehensible

>>24479132
>why do people do this?
They cooked the entire lore but forgot that they were wrting a web novel and competing for attention rather than a traditional fantasy book that is praised to hell and back.

>>24479139
>I did this for 30 names---IN EACH CHAPTER!!!
why do you keep bragging about things people almost universally consider bad writing? and stop shilling that link over and over man

>>24479253
Zoomer's attention spam?

>>24479139
as much as confidence can sell, when someone says "I don't like it when an author does X" saying that you've done X 3 times as much is not going to get people to look at your work.

>>24479392
Again, my audience is small but consistent. Aiming for the masses won’t bring in any new readers, but aiming for someone who might be fascinated by my out-of-the-norm statements is the right way.

>>24479403
Then I would consider phrasing things in a more positive way.

>>24479139
you should instead describe 30 pairs of breasts in each chapter.

>>24479403
>Aiming for the masses won’t bring in any new readers,
aiming for the masses is literally how you get the most readers

>>24479440
If someone buys your book but never opens it past chapter one, would you call him a reader?

>>24479442
what's with the non-sequitur
are you saying only books with mainstream appeal get bought and go unread?
your "wacky zany based based based work" will be the same, except maybe not because I doubt people are even shelving it for later

>>24479448
What the fuck did you understand? I'm just saying that advertising to people who won't read your book is a waste of time.

>Post unhinged, unapologetically fetishistic stories
>Get overwhelmingly negative feedback
I am convinced my haters are all middle aged women.

>>24479451
I didn't say to mis-represent your book? Wtf

>>24479453
Bad feedback like that is usually because you didn't properly signal what the story was. If you're writing weird shit it should be obvious from page 1. not only will you pull in the proper audience but you won't get loads of raging comments about peope who felt misled

>>24477625
the correct answer, fyi, is: have her lover tell her they're big when they're fucking

>>24478235
>Wapsi Square webcomic, in its earlier years, was good here
I've never seen a webcomic as cringe and gay as that
truly

>>24479453
>Post unhinged, unapologetically fetishistic stories
What type?

>made an ad on royal road
>had Chris-chan JD Vance in it
>autist DMs me to let me know that someone is using ads to make people think my nobody writer ass is Chris-chan

>>24479571
Ugh, please don't put fucking Vance memes in your ads. Nobody wants politics in their escapist fiction, unless it's fictional politics and well written.

No I don't care what your justification is. I won't take it into consideration at all.

>>24479662
It looks funny. I’m not even american

I broke 100 followers today.
I've also got a better ad idea for RR so I can beat this pathetic 0.5% CTR.
Life is good author-bros.

>>24474794 (OP)
I wouldn't partake in this thread nor have I partook

>>24480160
>0.5% CTR.
damn bro how. isn't 2% the benchmark for "ok"? what was it?

>>24480160
IDK why people care about the CTR. In royalroad what you should actually care about is the follower conversion rate. People run meme ads and get 5%+ CTR because people want to see what story is hosting that meme ad, but then nobody actually follows

>>24480175
Literally just the title in yellow on black background. My other idea got shot down for copyright infringement, and literally other people were using the same meme template. I think some mod just didn't like it. The new one's going to have the cover art on it though it's gonna be sick.

>>24480178
I got 10.5% on follow and 14.2% on read later. I don't really understand what those mean.

>>24480210
>I got 10.5% on follow and 14.2% on read later. I don't really understand what those mean.
yeah those numbers fluctuate in a weird as fuck way? not sure
how many views have you burned through and how many followers have you gotten in return?

>>24480213
210k views so far, 39 follows. But I also kept track and I had like 20 followers when I started the ad campaign and now I have 100. So I think their statistics are not that great.

Clearly I'm doing something wrong, and part of it is an early depressing arc I wrote before I decided to post it serialized on RR. So mentally I've already written off this story as an "early first work" and I'm planning out my next story to be more appealing to a wider RR audience and get it catapulted into the ratings by followers I convert from this story. I'm in this for the long haul.

>>24480249
Good mentality
Once you have your front-page material and first chap for that next story done, you should post it here and I'll check it over (if you want)

>>24480257
Maybe. I'm trying to play the ambiguous gender game with a femme pen name, but now I'm thinking I should have just lied outright and pretended to be a female author. So I'm trying to be careful with my digital tracks. If at some point I decide to just come out as male then I'll be more likely to post samples here. Thanks for the offer though, I appreciate it.

>>24480292
>I'm trying to play the ambiguous gender game with a femme pen name
For RoyalRoad? That only matters for pure romance stories anon

>>24480306
Sadly that's how the landscape and market looks to me. It sucks that there's actual bigotry but I'm just trying to dodge it.

>>24480324
>Sadly that's how the landscape and market looks to me.
Hm not sure I understand since almost all of the big authors are openly male.
I'll just assume you're writing in some niche like yuri
but then again the biggest name there is ravensdagger and he's openly male so...yeah not sure

Actually that's a good question, which popular web novel authors even are female? I can only think of Hungry Thundamoo and HonorRae

>>24480292
multiple of my readers call me "she" but idk how useful this is.

So anon, pick up any good non-litrpgs lately?

Are you using your real name, a pen name that's a normal-sounding name, a more fanciful but still plausible name, or an online handle/username?

I found a neat tool to check if your RR slop made it to any of the Rising Stars pages.

https://stepan.chizhov.com/author-tools/rising-stars-checker/

On the topic of romance, there's this main character trio in my story but I'm heavily conflicted on whether to make the relationship two-sided + third wheel or harem. I'm leaning toward the former, but readers who enjoy the third character (likely to have the highest engagement) could go wild over it

>>24481705
just my username.
>>24481714
i was in the top 10 for one of the sub categories in 2023.

>>24481719
I was always a fan of the Archie comics style love triangle, where it's an even balance between two girls (with occasional third girls thrown in) who have different appeals. I would prefer not to see a couple with a third wheel forced to stick around for plot reasons, but you know your story and characters best.

>>24481719
Depends on what you consider more important:
If you value your vision, go third wheel.
If you want to please your readers, do the harem route.
But I'll suggest a middle route: either make the relationship two-sided but throw a bone at the other character by having them have their own two-sided relationship or keep teasing till the end (this one could have backfire though).

>>24479453
Who do you think reads web novels anon

do you think having an MC murder an entire family/bloodline, chinese style, would be a turn off on RR?

>>24482307
no

>>24482307
Vaarsuvius in OOTS nearly genocided a species and fans are still waiting on a redemption arc

>>24482307
Every narrative decision ever will turn off some readers
If your audience knows this is cultivation slop of that particular sort, not many will care, but even some in that audience will
if your MC was otherwise acting according to western preferences it'll be a huge wtf moment for a lot of people

>>24482307
Only if it isn't consistent with what you had been presenting beforehand. Twists and drastic measures should still make sense

>>24481997
>>24482010
>I would prefer not to see a couple with a third wheel forced to stick around
>either make the relationship two-sided but throw a bone at the other character
The third character kind of swings both ways so I have this sort of love triangle to work with. While A and B have a closer relationship, C acts as a libertine cipher to instill chaos in the party dynamic, such as stealing a kiss from both A and B's which makes B (reserved personality) loathe C. Their dynamics have ups and downs but is intended to end in a trainwreck on latter chapters.

Essence of Cultivation is kinda cute, anything similar?

>>24482691
>C acts as a libertine cipher to instill chaos in the party dynamic
You could make A and B a couple, maybe leave C to stir on their feelings for a while (maybe having discussions with B, rife for character drama) before setting into a "friends with benefits" type of thing, which sound like a happy middle ground between third wheel and harem. It also leaves C to do their thing if you wish.
>Captcha: 0HAAY (kek)

Do people actually make money writing this slop? I can't believe it. This shit is ass.

Now that my story is nearing two hundred pages, I finally bit the bullet and shared it with my cousins who read webnovels (shadow slave is their favorite).

Thank for the anon who didn't leave a five star review, makes it look more professional now. I'm gonna take a look at your chapters on RR now that I just finished a 21 page chapter

>>24482777
People have been payed writing slop for centuries

>>24482777
I have made, and you might want to sit down for this, $50 from Patreon subscribers.

But there are people who are literally phoning it in making $17k/month (fucking BTDEM) from patreon alone, let alone kindle/amazon.

So yes people are willing to throw money at authors on RR. I don't question it, just how I can exploit it better.

>>24482777
So is most OnlyFans shit. Amateur porn sells just fine
So does amateur power fantasy writing. Hits the dopamine center, that's all that matters

>>24482812
>Amateur porn sells just fine
amateurish porn is more appealing than amateurish writing

>>24482729
Ohay, that's actually great suggestion for the midpoint of the story before the bonds escalates.

>>24482832
I consume way more amateurish writing than I do amateur porn. I only have the highest standards for my hentai. Technically all those artists are professionals.

>>24482832
Is amateurish smut inbtween both, then?

>>24482832
Yes?
Obviously. That's why OnlyFans is hilariously bigger

Any sort of guides for this stuff before I ask a bunch of retarded newbie questions or spend days reading the popular works on RR?

Curious about breaking into this, most of my other writing is either /d/-tier, or "real writing" that has to try to not be too self indulgent. Webnovels seem like a good place to lean into milscifi autism and also throw in harem femdom bullshit, but how close to erotica can you get on RR?

>>24482892
You can just read the rules on RR, they're a bit vague but the basics is that you can have romance, you cannot have explicit sex. Violence and gore is wide open though.

If you want explicit sex you can post on AO3.

If you want to farm RR, you should definitely look at what's popular and what's popping off recently (Rising Stars) to get an idea of what the audience of readers likes and supports. Also check the patreons of some of the biggest creators who have been popular for a year or more to see what the really successful people are getting.

It's not hard to figure out what the people like. Like everything, the hard part is writing something that captures their interest.

>>24482892
>but how close to erotica can you get on RR?
Not remotely.
That said harem male-gaze trash does good on Amazon, has a thriving indie community. Easily as viable as royalroad, if with a lower "max earnings" (still probably like 100k a book though)

What's the best place to post your shit without getting fucked over out of the rights to your stuff?

Also policy/advice for doing stories with public domain characters like Winnie the Pooh, Lovecraft/Chambers mythos, Great Gatsby, etc?

>>24482953
>What's the best place to post your shit without getting fucked over out of the rights to your stuff?
anywhere? which website claims your rights? I don't know of any

>>24482953
RR and Patreon are the only sites I've checked but they don't claim ownership of your work as far as I understand it.
I've heard that posting on webtoon gives them exclusivity of some kind but I just avoid it.

>>24482892
Scribblehub is your friend you can write whatever.

>>24482970
Wasn't Scribblehub fine to post either?

>>24482917
My first thought was how hard could it be to self-pub on Amazon, I can definitely target an audience if I have one in mind, and I've gotten strong feedback on other projects. Not to be too cynical about it, just trying to motivate myself to churn out something fun and maybe get some audience responses. But I worry just going straight to Amazon without any marketing would be pointless. Is it worth it to try and cultivate an audience on RR and then pivot to Kindle softcore erotica?

>>24482988
>But I worry just going straight to Amazon without any marketing would be pointless.
It's generally a bad idea UNLESS there is a specific active audience that slurps up every KU book in that subgenre
Harem fantasy is one of those niches, though you should still check out the subreddits dedicated to it and advertise there when you launch
>Is it worth it to try and cultivate an audience on RR and then pivot to Kindle softcore erotica?
as you've been told RR doesn't allow softcore erotica so whatever audience you cultivate would be a mostly clean audience then go WTF when you start writing that stuff

i don't know that scene well, go check out the reddits and discords for it. https://www.reddit.com/r/haremfantasynovels/
im sure theres a guide by an author somewhere telling you how to go about it

>>24483032
>https://www.reddit.com/r/haremfantasynovels/
>Has a banned work list
>It's all banning NTA, futa, anal on male stuff and MTF trans
kek, wish someone gave me a heads up like that before I picked up Full Clearing (LN) years ago.

>>24483100
>NTA
*NTR

>>24483100
Tell me more

>release big climax chapter
>ask for rating/reviews(I usually don't)
there is only cope left

>>24483118
About Full Clearing? MC is so much of a beta, that his harem start scisoring themselves because he can't be arsed to dick them, IIRC the web novel ended without him fucking them. Fans got so mad that the author wrote one extra chapter afterstory just to tell that he finally did the deed.
I dropped it anyway because there was no point in get an harem and doing nothing, even as the girls threw themselves at him.

>>24483125
No shame in begging for rates/reviews. It's literally proven that it works. It's why all the biggest "content creators" ALWAYS ask, sometimes multiple times, for likes, subscribes, notifications turned on, etc.

>>24483154
it makes me feel a deep rooted shame that tears away at my psyche. The creator gave me a positive trait(huge penis) and a negative trait(cannot beg or ask for help without taking mental damage)

>>24483165
Just do it. The end of every single one of my chapters has an author note asking people to check out patreon and leave a review, with the more reviews I get the more bonus chapters I post.

Then I made another request for reviews for some BS reason in my latest chapter, and 30 minutes after it went live, I had another review. Now my RR ranking is under 10,000.

Anyway, just keep at it. Embrace being an e-beggar.

>>24483193
i'm a rank 00861 and I feel like if my regular readers have not given a review after 72 chapters and nearly 250k words with like 5 reminders they simply aren't interested in doing so. Bonus chapters might help but I'd have to write more and I'm struggling with that as is.

>>24483138
Oh I was hoping for futa, that's just boring

>>24483235
Damn dude congrats on the rank. How long have you been writing? Not trying to figure out your story, but mine started in January and I know I'm behind the curve for popular stories, but I'm wondering where I can expect to end up by this time next year when I expect it to be fully complete on RR.

Instead of reviews, maybe you should focus on ebook sales / KU / patreon conversions. It sounds like you have a good audience, now you just need to exploit them.

>>24483442
story has been on RR since the start of 2023. Last 2 months of chapters have been at a stead 200~ views so I'm not sure how many I can convert to patreon but I might try to publish somehow when I'm done, which should be later this year. The story is fantasy without isekai or litrpg elements so it isn't hugely popular.

>>24483235
so how much do you earn from this?

>>24483672
negative dollars. It is not monetized at all and I commission artwork of the characters. These are related because I worry that the comms might count as advertising if I am making money out of it and that would be a problem, however I really like them.
I have a second story planned and a few chapters written and I might try to monetize that when I release it. Patreon for porn and advance chapters.

>>24483774
>the comms might count as advertising if I am making money out of it and that would be a problem
why?
nobody will fault you if you don't claim them
(t. professional beancounter)
>I have a second story planned and a few chapters written and I might try to monetize that when I release it
good luck you filthy degen

>>24483840
>nobody will fault you if you don't claim them
they are through skeb and the artist retains copyright to the work, and I worry about the highlighted section applying to using the work for advertisements for a paid product. It feels like a gray area and I'd prefer to avoid it.

Does anyone know what most web novel's covers looked like before people used AI to make covers? I'm very curious. Was it SOULful photo bashing?

>>24484026
Everything was stolen from pixiv/artstation.

>check views on my RR chapters
>newest chapter published today has like thirty views
>first chapter gained about twelve views today alone
What constitutes a view anyways? Can views be people seeing the chapter got an update from their notification board?

>>24483857
ah I see
yeah that might be an issue
probably ought to clear it with the artist first

>>24484108
Views that low are probably all bots and search engines.

>>24484108
what anon said
I usually assume the first 30 or 50 views are index crawlers

>>24483235
>he doesnt start every chapter with "BE SURE TO SMASH THAT LIKE BUTTON AND RING THE BELL AND LEAVE A COMMENT BELOW. IF WE CAN HIT 1,000 COMMENTS I'LL POST THE NEXT CHAPTER TONIGHT!"

>>24483100
>Trailer Park Bikini Vampires
Where has this genre been all my life? Western publishers are pissing money away by hiding this stuff from readers.

>>24482892
https://www.royalroad.com/forums/thread/116847

>>24483154
>>24483193
Fuck it. I'm at 133 followers and only 6 reviews (and only one full review). I just added a little blurb at chapter 1’s endnote saying a bit about myself and asking for a review

>>24474794 (OP)
Can we discuss storytelling here?
For me appeal of the story is seeing characters overcoming challenges and growing from it.
So, I don't get the appeal of overcompetent characters who can solve everything without effort.
For a loser, any victory, no matter how small, is a triumph; for Legolas, nothing is.

>>24484893
>So, I don't get the appeal of overcompetent characters who can solve everything without effort.
>without effort
is the key part. most people don't like this, not even in the slop community. it's more like battle shounen anime. everyone knows the MC will win in the end but they still work and struggle to make it happen.
competent characters are plenty of fun, even in mainstream media. see: sherlock holmes

What's the rundown on rape content on these sites? What can I get away with?

>>24476573
I DID IT GUYS, 1000 VIEWS!

A virtual hug to everyone who supported me in reaching this first step toward success.

>>24483527
shill your story and I'll give it a try.

>>24484981
>What's the rundown on rape content on these sites? What can I get away with?
rape as a traumatizing element? fine almost everywhere
rape to titillate and excite? almost nowhere

>>24484327
>>24484349
Seems like it’s over for me. My ad campaign was good but alas, I'm just not writing what people want to read. Most people on this site are too young to appreciate an alcoholic piece of shit protag

>>24485004
this one
>>24477087

>>24485003
Congrats bro, keep it up!
More chappies = more views

>>24485067
>long chapters
>inconsistent posting schedule
I know someone around here keeps saying just write gud and you'll be successful, but you do have to keep in mind the serialization and online format. I broke up my earlier, long chapters into 1-2k word chunks and posted them consistently, same days and time every week, and then later chapters I targeted 1-2k words with a little twist or hook or cliffhanger at the end of each and every one to keep people reading or interested in coming back when the next chapter is posted. It's hard to expect an RR reader to remember your story exists when you had zero updates for over a month.

>>24484893
Yes. I'm working on a story with a main character who is super OP in one realm: combat. Put her in a fight, and she'll take down people significantly "stronger" through cunning and sheer battle IQ. But that's about all she's OP in. She's a teenager, grew up in a small village, doesn't know about telling time, can read but writing is a struggle, and her overall goal isn't something she can solve by punching alone. So the story is a seesaw between her struggling to accomplish her main goal, and her getting in big fights and emerging totally unscathed and then everyone says "wow" and claps.

It's all about balance and keeping things interesting.

>>24485103
right so how much are you earning
cmon let's have some "local boy does good" success stories

>>24485452
>cmon let's have some "local boy does good" success stories
you don't have to be that great of a writer, success on royalroad is more about understanding the genre + writing to market, which I've yet to see happen here

>>24485506
yeah I know
forget the purity of great art, just from a royalroad whore perspective, would be great to know #oneofus made it

>>24485513
>would be great to know #oneofus made it
yes. 64 used to post to wg but i havent seen him in ages, he probably makes the most $. idk if akaso really counts as having "made it" but he reached a small level of success and I see him around here and there.
i stay anon, personally, but am between 64 and akaso success wise. trajectory is looking good though so maybe ill be the slop king eventually

>>24485513
someone here has a top 100 ranking, I figure they made a good amount from that.

>>24485579
yes, but not bc of ranking, ranking is just a weighted sorting of scores. it means you're high rated with a decent amount of followers but even some stories in the top 10 best rated are making shit for cash

>>24485587
>even some stories in the top 10 best rated are making shit for cash
why's that though

>>24485587
while that is possible it seems unlikely.

>>24485627
you can have a high weighted score and still a small # of followers. #7 ongoing right now has 2600 followers it looks like. compare to say, rune smith @24k followers but a shit score, probably like rank 500+ (i have no idea)
even popularity (followers and weekly views) don't correlate to profit directly. There are some stories people view as "good enough to follow" but they aren't really interested in paying for it. "Just okay" stories. Others have insanely high conversion, like 10-15% of the followers going on to pay for it monthly and never stopping
Many more reasons as well ofc, patreon conversion is determined by many factors. like how gripping/urgent/addicting the writing is (which is sort of separate from quality desu)

>>24485663
just go click through the list yourself man
ofc most of the ones on the best rated list are stubs, hiatus, finished, etc. but if you go collect a list of "top 10 best rated still being actively posted" you will see an ENORMOUS difference in patreon earnings within the various #1-#10 places. because place #6 might have 30k followers and place #2 might have 4k

>>24485663
fine i went and did a quick search myself
look: https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/110709/mage-steel-a-western-sci-fi-cultivation-series
this is a fiction that is in the top 100 and is making only $600 a month
this one: https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/117255/rend
is making sub 1000 probably
meanwhile in the same list, plus or minus a few spots, are gonna be people making >10k a month
ranking doesn't mean patreon success. High followers AND high rating is a decent indicator...but still varies quite a lot

>>24485667
that is true but the majority of them have 5k+. Even with a 10% follow to patreon rate(which I don't know if it is accurate or not) that is still 500 people paying some 5-10 dollars a month. Not "quit your job" money but certainly worth noting. I'm just saying due to the low % of low follower stories it is likely the person has a good number.

>>24485696
>that is true but the majority of them have 5k+.
my point was that ranking isn't a good metric to gauge success off of, because #12 might have 2000 followers and #958 might have 30,000
followers is more consistent by a lot, and also varies wildly
>10% conversion
that's massive smash hit territory btw. expect ~2-5%

My story is in top 150, with barely 500 followers and I haven't made a cent

>>24485683
Personally, I'd be so happy, if I got a single buck per month for my shit.
I need that shit, for monetary value but for motivation.

>>24485452
Personally I've made about $50 on patreon and have 2 consistent patrons, and I just got my RR rank under 10k. So I'm not on top but the trajectory is good since I started in January. My first book should be available to buy as ebook and paperback via amazon next month.

>>24485866
>My first book should be available to buy as ebook and paperback via amazon next month.
nice
sounds like you're getting there
how much have you written so far?

>>24485899
I've got nearly 200k words written right now, about 100k on RR so far. A side pov I started writing as an ebook/patreon exclusive has taken on a life of its own and is up to 48k words already, so now book 1 is going to be almost 50% new content and the entire trilogy will probably follow that pattern.

Book 2's main content is nearly done, about 10-12 more chapters / 20k more words to go. I post much slower than I write so the free RR content will finish posting sometime next year. Maybe I'll have 5 patrons by then :D

>>24484893
I'm trying too figure out the balance on that for the story I'm drafting now. I have two protagonists, one weak and one strong. Weak one will get more powerful as the story goes on, but I'm having trouble figuring out how to manage the other one without him becoming a dues ex machina for whenever she gets in over her head.

>>24486308
Just add a romance aspect to it and women will like it. Just make the woman hate being saved and insist she's independent despite constantly needing to be saved. Picrel.

There are other ways to do this too but you could also have the strong character struggle with an issue that can't be solved just by being strong. Lack of information, relationship issues, some kind of internal conflict, etc.

>>24486308
here's a quick heuristic for you: treat one as Luke and the other as Obi-Wan

everybody loves Obi-Wan ;)

>>24486334
Romance isn't really on the table. The male is significantly nonhuman enough to make it /d/ territory. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it would be a different genre. On the macro scale he does have his own conflicts and goals, and there are others stronger than him who provide a threat both in the long term and as the inciting incident for the two of them to be paired together. It's the smaller moments that I'm having trouble with. I need to figure out satisfying stakes without it being undercut with, "By the way he could have saved her any time if he wanted." To give her a threat without training wheels, a safety net, or just separating them any time I want her to do something stupid.
>>24486410
Trying to avoid making him a mentor. It's a story about both of them, he isn't just there as a support character.

>>24486308
>>24486450
make one of them obi-wan imo

>>24486308
Separate them and have the weaker character solve stuff on their own.
Stronger character goes their own wayt of a while , leaving weaker character on an adventure of their own.
Stronger character has some sort of qualm that prevents them from involving themselves (kinda weak writing imo).
Really, the way to prevent them from being a deus ex machina is not having him solve problems, or only solve after the weaker one fucks up and has to deal with the consequences.

>>24486450
What if the stronger character just doesn't like the weaker character much and is okay with watching the weaker character get in trouble?

>>24486450
>Trying to avoid making him a mentor. It's a story about both of them, he isn't just there as a support character.
IMHO, the Mentor is an archetype, not a formal position
that is, two friends can be equal in relationship, and both can mentor the other, but one can be mentor to the other in more areas than vice versa, and the one who is more skilled therefore is the Mentor
and this dynamic can change over time

IMHO this is a fundamental nature of human relationships, which is what story is really about, and you'll find it quite difficult to go against that
especially given you've already set up such a situation

>>24486487
>>24486496
>Stronger character has some sort of qualm that prevents them from involving themselves
>stronger character just doesn't like the weaker character much and is okay with watching the weaker character get in trouble
I use that once, when they first get together and he doesn't particularly care about her survival. As mentioned it would be weak writing to repeat once it no longer serves as a character moment. Constantly separating them also feels pretty cheap.
>Really, the way to prevent them from being a deus ex machina is not having him solve problems, or only solve after the weaker one fucks up and has to deal with the consequences.
I don't disagree. I just can't get rid of the feeling that without reasons why he can't help it ends up undercutting any threat the reader knows he could have stopped if it became serious.
>>24486504
Yeah, I regretted not specifying that I meant Mentor as an archetype as soon as I hit post. Point being Obi-Wan is that archetype, and therefore not something I want to draw from.

I've probably come across as more stuck on this than I actually am. I have a half dozen answers for the problem which I've used in different situations. My post was less looking for guidance and more venting at having to repeatedly go back to this same question without getting stale. I absolutely appreciate the suggestions though, and it does make me think I really should come up with a more permanent way to nip this in the bud. Maybe something happens to nerf him for a while.

>>24486541
>Maybe something happens to nerf him for a while.
The Cradle book series did this by having a field around a location make the stronger the person weaker, so one of character's mentor could be poisoned. Not saying you should do that, just giving you the idea.
>My post was less looking for guidance and more venting at having to repeatedly go back to this same question without getting stale.
I understand, good luck with your story anon.

May have been asked already but could I publish on more than one site? RR and Scribblehub? That way you get more exposure

>>24486645
Some authors do and afaik there's no problem.

According to my 4 beta readers, I have a decent story and cool characters but my power system is absolute dogshit

>>24487163
What's your power system?

>>24485858
So you may say, but the human mind doesn't work like that and greed is one hell of a poison. If you had one follower, you'd wish you had five. If you had five, you think you'd be happy with ten. Then fifty wouldn't be enough anymore. In time, you'd find yourself on the same line with these rising star dudes, considering deleting your work and reposting because you "only" have 3000 people throwing money at you and losing sleep and planning suicide because one guy unsubbed and the latest chapter couldn't cross 10k views within the first hour. I wish I were making this up but these people are real

>>24487163
>beta readers
Who cares what betas think? What did your alpha and sigma readers think?

>>24487337
what would sigma readers be?
they buy your book, give it 5 stars and never read word?

>>24485696
>500 people paying some 5-10 dollars a month. Not "quit your job" money
Speak for yourself, for my minimum wage ass that's a raise.

>>24487341
I imagine a sigma reader is too busy to read your book, didn't like the cover, didn't bother to tell you because the argument would be a waste of time, etc. Alpha readers I imagine as that one italian who fought a duel over who was the better poet but hadn't read either.

>>24487345
Using the low end, 2500$ a month with no benefits insurance etc, and taxed heavier because of self-employment, is lower than min wage unless you're in a 7.25$ state which maybe you are
The high end is more reasonable.
The cool part about writing as a living is if you're okay with being abroad you can fuck off to Malaysia or something and live like a king on even $1500-2000 a month, which is totally reasonable to reach even for a bad writer on royalroad

>>24487333
>I wish I were making this up but these people are real
they are real, but they are not the average successful author anon...this is just mental illness. there's always a desire to strive a little higher sure, that's just humanity, but not in this poisonous way you're describing. at least, I don't feel that way, I'm quite happy with my moderate level of success

>>24487384
I've never had a job that paid more than $600-700/month after taxes and I live in a "first world" country. 2.5k is some middle management/expert tier

>>24487426
True, every situation is different. Unfortunately I live in a high cost of living state in the US, so a self employed $2500 would be poverty level

>>24487384
I make $1560 a month before taxes with no benefits or insurance stuck in retail hell. You hit the nail on the head with moving to SEA to live like a king, that's my ambition.

>>24484893
Because if you have a fallible main character then you get underaged shounentards bitching about how he's a jobber

>>24487455
>>24487384
fuck off we're full
(of muds and turdies)

$2500 or $3000 is more like it
and you have to be prepared for a different type of lifestyle, kind of like living in darkest Chicago
look at the poor bloke from England who died recently

>>24487461
But jobber protagonists are the best.
Luke is a jobber in Empire Strikes Back, which is objective the best Star Wars movie

>>24487332
I'm writing wuxia so it's low fantasy martial arts. Different schools and sects have their own styles and canon of techniques but it's admittedly a bit vague. I've received suggestions like adding a rock-paper-scissors angle or type affinities like Pokémon for more interplay and problem-solving possibilities but I want to keep it low fantasy without any elemental manifestation/manipulation shenanigans.

>>24487337
alphas and sigmachads probably don't care about power systems

>>24487629
You can do the elemental theme with the different styles having advantages based on them without having it be supernatural.
Stuff like the water school's flowing movements being good at redirecting the blunt and direct strikes of the fire school.

>>24487737
Thanks, I've been gravitating towards something like that. Good luck with your projects/reading list

>>24487163
>my power system is absolute dogshit
>I'm writing wuxia
fucking hell
that's like zoomers reading LOTR and being told Tolkien ought to have Gandalf and and the Balrog fight using
>a rock-paper-scissors angle or type affinities like Pokémon

On the subject of power systems, any examples of successful litrpg series with a soft magic system as the main one? It might be too contradictory, but I'm curious to see what someone could do with that.

>>24482913
>they're a bit vague but the basics is that you can have romance, you cannot have explicit sex
this is definitely not true, I read picrel on RR and it had multiple chapters of explicit lovey dovey tentacle impregnation sex

>>24488204
old popular works are exempt. blue core would undoubtedly be banned if released today

>>24487916
I think there's also some Brandon Sanderson Thought going on where power/magic systems are now heavily expected to be a big part of narrative problem-solving whereas I'm quite happy to use it mostly for characterisation.
Alas, I'm still writing for the RR crowd so there'll be some amount of writing to market/buying in/selling out etc etc and I'm not sacrificing *that* much of my vision by adding some Systems© to the martial arts.

>>24487957
I can see a soft system working with gentler progfan but always assumed litrpg comes with stats and crunch ("hardness") as standard

>>24488210
Damn really? Nothing worse than inconsistent double-standard jannies.

>>24488204
Haven't finished yet but Iniri is the best girl I love that virgin queen, tentacle biting kirin.

>>24488243
I sort of get it. They didn't want smut on their site but didn't want to purge a bunch of popular stories.
It's not double-standards in the sense big authors can get away with it--the rules just changed.

>>24488261
I guess it's just grandfathering rather than double standards. Ah well, scribblehub still exists for those who wanna write/read smut, although it's pretty hard to search for mostly-plot-some-smut stories like blue core there.

Finished volume 2.

Volume 1: 81 chapters (1st chap is a news article so its more like 80)

Volume 2: 80 chapters

Wasn't planned to be near exact, I don't plot out my stories in a way where I know what each chapter is going to be. Interesting how it finished up at essentially the same chapter mark.

>>24488689
You want some constructive criticism? Because I have a lot unfortunately
Or are you just sharing?

>>24488749
I don't mind, whatever you feel like.

>>24488689
>>24488761
Biggest issue is that your blurb doesn't read like a blurb at all. It reads like some sort of wiki dump. Royalroad has a culture where talking straight to the reader's face is more accepted than usual--but not like this. Usually it's
1. The normal blurb, giving a character & plot hook / reason to click in, like any normal novel
2. Then some "talking to the reader" to set expectations. eg "this is a slow-burn character driven work"
The blurb as is simply isn't engaging
It also says too little in too many words. you can condense it down massively

You also do this thing constantly where you try to convince the reader--this does NOT work. It screams "amateur". see:
>The series will showcase a wide array of stories & genres made to be character-driven with a satisfying pay off (the author has given a lot of time and care to figuring out how to end the story in a satisfying way.)
Even funnier, you then go in in chapter 1 to do the opposite, where you're insisting to the reader "it's just a draft, so deal with it"
Remove ALL of that meta shit. Let the story stand on its own. I promise you, you are only coloring the reader's perception in a massively negative way. Don't tell the reader it's a draft--what's even the point of that? To lower their expectations? why????

Well, that's just some stuff I noticed, I have a lot more to say I suppose but I'm not trying to type an entire essay

>woke up
>wrote 6000 words
>30 minutes later feel like both little story arcs I wrote were completely unnecessary to the larger plot and bloat the work
>spend hours thinking about cutting it but not wanting to
>eventually decide it works as foreshadowing and as long as it's entertaining, it can stay
I am exhausted. I need to stick to my outline better and not let little one line story fluff sentences turn into mini story arcs.

>>24488811
Okay thanks for this. Will try and make it a bit less explanatory in that way. Cheers.

>>24488831
>as long as it's entertaining, it can stay
this is unequivocally true for web serials. the fun side plots are part of the charm

>>24488889
But making something unrelated entertaining is much harder than making the plot itself entertaining, which is plenty hard itself. Many have tried and failed

>>24488689
>The series will showcase a wide array of stories & genres made to be character-driven with a satisfying pay off
Hello, ChatGPT. It seems like your blurb could use some human soul. Would you like me to rewrite this so it doesnt sound like AI garbage?

>>24488689
Your blurb reads like something you wish someone else had written about your work. You're probably putting people off who might otherwise like your premise.

>most of the posts here are about money making schemes
where is the love for the game
do any of you actually like what you write or do you see this as a side hustle?

>>24489625
people want to write stuff that gets read, it doesn't mean they don't love doing it

>>24489680
it's backwards to determine your personal desires by the expectations and approval of others
I want to read (you)r slop. I want to know what kind of things you fantasize about. I want real, genuine imagination, even if you're just shamelessly writing stories about being the protagonist of your favorite video game
all the derivation and conning is just so tiresome. when did amateur creatives become just as soulless and exploitative as corporate ones?

>>24489688
Your mistake is assuming that just because someone is trying to monetize their work means it's not something they want to write

>>24489688
people are out here stacking shelves for 45 hours a week of pure existential hell and you're saying we shouldn't tailor doing something we enjoy (writing) to the market so that we can keep doing it?

>>24489690
maybe. I call either assumption into question though. sure, maybe people are writing what they like and making a monetizing a second order function of that, but it doesn't seem that way when people talk about adjusting what they write rather than things like how they market or their posting times or how to network for shout outs
>>24489692
I might just not get it. the idea that a person would like to write but not care what they write about is unfathomable. you value the act of putting down words but you don't care about what it actually is you're writing?
maybe my mistake is conflating the storyteller and the writer
if so, I want to read (you)r story, not your copy self assigned copy writing project

>>24489688
based peeping tom chad. the intimacy of knowing the writer's deepest desires or interests and laying it out for all to see is like an exhibitionist act in my eyes. anything insincere is worthless and slop.

>>24489697
>I might just not get it
You do get it, you just don't realise it. Almost all employed writers on the planet - with the sole exception of deeply established auteurs who already did their time doing conventional writing - think commercially. It doesn't mean they don't care for their work or enjoy the creative process involved.

accountants pretending to be artists is vulgar and obscene
reply with your sincere slop and I'll read all of it. if you host on a platform like RR, I'll leave a good review if I like it. if I don't like it I'll wait a few years for you to improve as a writer then leave a good review

>>24489625
as if the faggots on the other general are writing better shit just because they're meekly accepting that they will never be commercially successful

>>24489709
post yours first

>>24489709
Read mine
>>24476573

>>24489625
It's to be expected. The web novel scene is seen as mostly "democratic" with monetisation being much more feasible than tradpub and all the jumping through hoops and nepotism it entails.
>do any of you actually like what you write or do you see this as a side hustle
I don't think these are mutually exclusive but I agree with the sentiment that stuff clearly written to optimise and capitalise at the expense of earnest expression is soulless but that isn't a groundbreaking viewpoint

I mean, it's a matter of supply and demand, isn't it?
if there was a site like Royalroad where I could advertise my military techno-thriller novel to fans I would happily write nothing else for the next five years at least

>>24489719
>Remember to read my series
bit entitled and weird of you but sure
>hunter-magic school-litRPG
the absurdity gave me a laff. it's like you're trying to make the united nations of genrefic. all you're missing is wuxia and superheroes to bring together american, british, chinese, korean and japanse slop
I'll check it out

>>24489728
>hunter-magic
what's that when it's at home?

>>24489727
the last thing I read on RR was necroepilogos which is arguably that and it's doing well. there's also that LN people liked that was a salaryman gets isekai'd as a loli in a WW1 magical war opera and people liked that
I think people do want a variety of slop. I think what's happening is that career seeking types think like shareholders in the current ecosystem and don't want to rock the boat, which creates a self looping system where writers think that readers don't want anything but [current trend] because writers only write [current trend] because writers think readers don't want anything but

>>24489688
what you want to write is a circle
what sells is a circle
all people here are doing is picking something in the overlap
this is very obvious, and i know you already know it. you sound really disingenuous in your posts, like you're just here to pick a fight.
>then why are people only talking about how to make money
we arent. once more you are being disingenuous
go back to /wg/

>>24489720
I think there has to be a degree of disconnect between career ambitions and personal ambitions. some people are just built like that and their career ambitions ARE their personal ambitions. for most creatives, the common sentiment is "I'd love to be doing X but I can't because the industry won't support me"
we live in a golden age of creative work where you can directly reach readers without having to go through a hand rubbing middleman. you actually get opportunity to be sincere AND make some money, with a chance for striking it big if you get lucky
the issue is that because of this 1 to 1 exchange of creative and customer, the systems which define the climate are largely defined by the behaviors of the creatives. every time some dipshit reads 10 blurbs from a top 100 list and goes "wtf, this is free money, I could do this," and churns out low effort trash, it contributes to a culture of behavior which stifles opportunity for everyone
we're lucky that the RR dev is a good faith actor and generally trying to do well by writers (even if I think the amazon deal was shitty). he could've shortsightedly weighted algorithms to favor dungeon slop at its height, or drown out litRPG, but he's tried to make it so new authors and stories are always getting a chance
>>24489737
>don't challenge me ruining your communities and hobbies
fuck you bitch. I love webnovels and I fucking hate how the vultures have flocked to the medium
no you dumb corporate brain washed insect, the market is not inert. nobody benefits from people wandering in with no creative intent or personal investment and trying to exploit readers. these people are to everyone's detriment. stop umbrellaing yourself as a defense. there are people who write and then also want to make money and there are people who want to make money so they write
>all people here are doing is picking something in the overlap
if you're doing this then you're clearly the latter. this entire mentality is fundamentally flawed and can only come from thinking that the community is something to exploit
hustle culture has ruined this generation beyond repair

>>24489756
nobody wants you here, sperg. go away

>>24489760
except the topic clearly has actual replies and discourse, including from me
>y-youre just disingenuous
>n-nobody wants you here
clearly not

>>24489768
acting like a jackass and getting reactions because of it = being wanted
very interesting perspective anon

>>24489625
I see it as the only thing I can do with my life that leaves me not wanting to kill myself. So I need to make a living from it.

>>24489774
that makes me sad and gives me empathy for somebody that I didn't consider could exist
kinda pitiful but you deserve more respect than the average grifter
I don't think you'd be much happier in the long run though. I'm reminded of Misery by Stephen King, which is basically 400 pages of seethe over how miserable and unhappy it is to be a career serial author
I hope you write something that brings you joy rather than barely being tolerable as work and it finds enough audience to keep a roof over your head

>>24489546
I've seen it recommended before and read the blurb, and I didn't say anything originally, but yeah it did put me off from giving it a try.

IMO a blurb should:
>simply state the premise
>simply state the conflict (at least the initial conflict)
>introduce the main character and give us a reason to like or relate to them
Eg Mushoku Tensei is about a horrible man who dies and is reincarnated as a fantasy world who decides to try to live a good life this time

>>24489625
I love what I'm writing to excess. I re-read my first draft for editing and get to the end and get sad and remember I have to keep writing to get to the end. Twice I've re-read my first chapter to see if I'm being consistent with something, and wound up spending a couple hours reading the entire thing. Nobody wants to hear about it because it's a little creepy and narcissistic but I honestly am my own biggest fan.

>>24489709
No, fuck no I don't want what I write, my writing style, or my pen name associated with 4chan, ever. Also, the inherent joy of 'number go up' is more than enough to get people trying to make their work popular. If you want pure 'love of the game' go read some poetry magazine with zero subscribers that survives by charging poets to "publish" their poetry.

>>24489736
>which creates a self looping system where writers think that readers don't want anything but [current trend] because writers only write [current trend] because writers think readers don't want anything but
That is absolutely not the case in WN. That is absolutely the case in tradpub. WN is great BECAUSE it avoids that trap, because the cost to publish is literally zero. You get infinite variety, and if you're not seeing something "new" on the front page, just go scroll through the last thousand new fictions that got posted in the last month. It's literally so easy that I suspect you don't even read WN.

>>24489756
>I love webnovels and I fucking hate how the vultures have flocked to the medium
I 100% guarantee some of the authors who wrote the web novels you "love" have the exact mentality >>24489737 describes

>>24489835
I'm more into RR than WN. I do read web novels and light novels when they get translated but I don't use WN itself. is the culture that different from RR? cuz RR is incestuous as fuck
>Nobody wants to hear about it because it's a little creepy and narcissistic but I honestly am my own biggest fan
based. I'd 100% like to read it but I get if you don't want to be associated
>poetry mags
poetry is the same as tradpub. those small mags are basically just exploiting nobodies who don't know better. bigger mags and collections run by the same clique dictated cabal as tradpub that you have to bend over backwards to have a chance for
the poets who just love doing it, like writers, are silently writing into the void. even with the surging popularity of slop, reading is a niche hobby. poetry is straight up dead and desiccated

>>24489836
>quoting love
lmao?
pretty sure not. what makes you think that?
you realize that webnovels have been a thing before grifter types hyper saturated the scene right?

>>24489862
which web novels are your favorites then?

>writer for solo leveling has unhinged levels of hatred for the japanese, it shows in his work
>thundamoo hates men and is obsessed with disabilities, lesbianism, and transhumanism, it shows in its work
>wildbow is a canadian, it shows in his work
what are some interesting characteristics of authors you can surmise from the things they seem to subconsciously write into their works?

>>24489878
>wants to try and nit pick my tastes as a way to discredit my opinions
nah nigga nah

>>24489881
>wildbow is a canadian
kek
I agree with your assessment on the other two as obvious but how do you surmise this

>>24489862
>pretty sure not. what makes you think that?
because if you go read author blogs or other types of posts/videos/etc for either published authors or web novel authors, they will very often discuss the concept of marketability, how to please an audience, and everything else related to business and structuring stories that "work"
this concept of "write exactly what you want and never give a fuck about your audience" is predominantly bs peddled by dilettantes, amateurs, or people who treat writing like masturbation
ofc: there are some people who really are this based and somehow gained popularity. they are the massive minority

>>24489882
The reason I asked is because 1. I'm somewhat doubtful you even read web serials 2. I know a lot of authors and it would be funny if you named one who I know has a market mindset 3. I want to know your taste so I understand you better.

>>24474794 (OP)
I have to stop showing samples to Chat GPT, it kills all my motivation by insisting on rewriting it.

>>24489756
There are parts of your argument I agree with but I don't think a disconnect is necessary. You're right that a lot of half-hearted sloppers are enticed by external factors like a fanbase and the monetary and/or social validation that entails so they write disproportionately with the external in mind; appeal becomes their starting point.
If instead you fiercely prioritise sincerity and authenticity, you write from personal truth. That personal specificity is much more emotionally resonant and paradoxically makes the work more universal and relatable than if you first had the audience/trends/monetisation/praise in mind.
Unfortunately, it's also possible to take this the wrong way and I've seen many writers be very dishonest with themselves. They'll say "I'm writing this for me!" but I doubt they'd read/defend their uninspired, convoluted, error-laden work if it had been written by someone else.

>>24489889
these are still second order functions. it's not "I'm going to write XYZ trend because there's some fundamental circle that works (dumbass idea)" but "I'm going to better get my work to people". I wouldn't consider people learning how to market or network or make more enticing blurbs as the same as people who derive from the market in the first place. even an amateur learning how to manage tension and suspense by studying popular story structures isn't comparable
I notice this recurring sentiment of reduction that either a critic or a defender must be saying 'auteur good, marketing bad'. yes, there's a difference and granularity between the two. I suspect people are trying to align with the moderate position of writing their personal vision then after that working to reach an audience because they don't want to admit to the shameful grifter behaviors
sincerity in creativity is a good thing. no, that doesn't mean a neglect or expense of personal success. in fact there's good argument for just the opposite, that insular conformity creates a hostile environment for everyone and only benefits those who are already established
I think it's worth discussing and exploring (and I think it's just kinda neat (and I'm slightly eternally seething about my hobby spaces being invaded by parasitic personalities)) the granularity between a grifter, self sabotaging neglecter, and one who has an ideal balance of creative integrity and effective marketing method. because there is no publisher dictating the culture, and because its in the hands of the writers, it's worth having an idea of what you want and don't want in the ecosystem you participate in

>>24489942
>I'm going to write XYZ trend because there's some fundamental circle that works (dumbass idea)"
Makes me not even want to read the rest of your post
anon said
>write at the junction of what you LIKE and what's known to SELL
not
>write the most trendy shit regardless of what you like
you really are disingenuous. there's no way you're discussing this topic in good faith

>>24489949
the framework that there is a fundamental circle of what sells and what doesn't is what I'm calling stupid
if you agree with him you can defend that on its own if you want, I don't think the idea that there's some platonic ideal of good (or marketable in this case) writing isn't worth talking about even if I do think it's dumb, but it's tangential to the topic at best

>>24489957
>the framework that there is a fundamental circle of what sells and what doesn't is what I'm calling stupid
there are existing markets filled with audiences that have preferences and any professional author will acknowledge it
trying to ignore this obvious fact by saying "well yeah but some stuff not in those established markets can sell too" is missing the point so insanely hard

>>24489937
wholly agree. there might be some specificity to explore in that line between what makes a sincere, self spoken story more universal vs less, but I think it probably comes down to individual retardation more than anything

>>24489881
>writer for solo leveling has unhinged levels of hatred for the japanese, it shows in his work
Isn't that just normal for koreans? It's the same for irish and brits, every irish I've seen sooner or later either has a hateboner for brits or is a North Ireland irredenstist.

>>24489881
how do you tell if a loli writer is a pedo or if they just want pedo money?

I have slop fatigue. It's to the point that I gave up and started writing my own novels. Part of me wants to publish but another part doesn't. The problem is that I am a neurotic retard and take the criticism of others quite hard. It makes me scared to publish anything. How do you deal with it? Imagine yourself as smug toad with a suit on and not care? Imagine they are all dumb toddlers that read shounen web novel sloppa so their opinions don't matter? Accept that your writing is shit and try to improve?

>>24489978
have friends
literally just that
if you have an in group that shares your creative values and understands what you're doing then the passing comments of uncaring retards quickly lose their weight

>>24489978
>Imagine they are all dumb toddlers that read shounen web novel sloppa so their opinions don't matter?
Yes, literally me

>>24489978
Write for yourself, just writing can be fun by itself. If ever feel like that it may interest someone, publish it.
>The problem is that I am a neurotic retard and take the criticism of others quite hard.
I'm too, but funnily enough, you're more probable of being ignored than criticised.

>>24489978
It's 1949. You're a stuttering 4F milksop incapable of looking a man in the eye and giving him a firm handshake, and since your mother passed you have no one to rely on. All you have in life is the pulps, pounding away for a penny a word to support yourself. A new piece of cover art has come in and you've been assigned to write 50000 words for it by the end of the week because if you don't there are a dozen other young men crawling over each other for YOUR desk. Write or starve.

>>24489981
>have friends
fuck
>>24489989
I'll pursue it with this mindset.

>>24489886
>neonazi capital in east coast city, not west coast
>understanding of america is that people basically live in O-block, shootings happen every time
>look at the parahuman gangs and their stereotypes, compare and contrast with stereotypes canadians believe in
>character of the MC
>prose

it’s a series of tiny realization until the revelation is inescapable.

>>24489978
I write only stories I can personally enjoy and don't care much what others think about it, but I've never received any harsh feedback either. Most comments have been extremely positive and fun. Those rare few who hate make such dumb, bizarre arguments, it's impossible to take them seriously even if I wanted to. Or else break clear content rules, so I just report them and move on. These cases were obviously very young and/or esl and didn't really understand what they read, if they actually even tried.

There's literally nothing wrong with writing what an audience wants so that the author can get paid, and nothing wrong with an author explicitly trying to farm money out of the audience. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot who probably thinks art as self-expression is the height of art.

>>24489975
>how do you tell if a loli writer is a pedo or if they just want pedo money?
If they're not japanese they're always doing it for the love of the game

>>24490346
this but the opposite

>>24490346
Real art, like the wife of an affectionate husband, needs no ornaments. But counterfeit art, like a prostitute, must always be decked out. The cause of production of real art is the artist's inner need to express a feeling that has accumulated...The cause of counterfeit art, as of prostitution, is gain. The consequence of true art is the introduction of a new feeling into the intercourse of life... The consequences of counterfeit art are the perversion of man, pleasure which never satisfies, and the weakening of man's spiritual strength.

>>24490346
Also, a LOT of authors jumping through hoops to get more royalroad views are not doing it out of some mercenary just-in-it-for-the-money mindset but becuase they WANT to write but also want attention / an audience.

All the tricks for "how to get a big patreon / KU deal" are the same as the advice for "how to get my story popular so it doesn't languish forgotten and unread, just in different degrees.

>>24490346
nothing wrong with being a service worker. nothing to be proud of either

isn't all this nonsense exactly why we split from /wg/? why is the "if you pay attention to the market, you're a fake writer" garbage here too, now?

>>24490486
It's literally one guy trolling.

>>24490832
>trolling
is it really so hard to believe someone would detest grifters?

>>24489709
here
>>24477087

>>24490851
will read next
>consistent releases for 2 years
good work bro

Methinks the problem is that guys like him can't comprehend that the vast majority of people here (and /wg/ too for that matter) aren't trying or even want to be artist, we just want to entertain people and that's it.
I will say though, I respect the sloplord who writes those gigantic chink xianxia story because he's little autistic brain likes that kind of stuff (even if I would never read garbage like that). I do NOT respect the guys who write a normal fiction story and then say "I'm going to add one (1) stat table thingies to be able to put that litrpg tag paypiggies on royal slop love!" Just to try to game the algorithm

>>24490860
no need to address me in the third person like you're scared of invoking me
I'm right here man. if you wanna talk about it im down
I think bad faith actors hide behind something similar to the mentality you describe (I'm not being exploitative, I just want to get as much attention and money as possible!) where people who actually think the way you describe may just be wired in a way that I do in fact not get. the idea of having the first order action of your creativity be based on the opinions and feelings of others rather than your own personal inspiration is straight up alien to me
I don't really have an opinion formed on it yet because I have a hard time believing such a person genuinely exists. it feels like a smokescreen to cover for bad behavior but it is a recurring claim
I guess it's the creative equivalent to wanting to be a healthcare worker or something? like having a purely altruistic purpose in writing and just wanting to serve others. sounds like BS but I could see some people genuinely being that way. just feels antithetical to what I understand creativity to be
to me creativity means having something in you that you want to get out. not even in pseudy auteur way. even just having a power fantasy you escape to or wanting to seethe and strike back at the world with bitter grimslop

>>24490876
cont.
the sloplord you describe is someone really noble in my eyes which is an extra layer of why I hate grifter/hustler types. that guy is pure love for stories and is something special. the second hypothetical guy you mention is like a spit in the face to the first, degrading his passion and genuine joy to a cheap product to mass produce

i only ask "what can I do to get people to read my story" because I want people to read my story. I want my ideas to be known. I do not want to change my ideas so that they are popular, I want to share my ideas as they are with the world. If I did not want people to read my work, there would be no reason to write it down - I would simply rotate the images in my head until the day I day.

>>24490849
It's literally the old definition of trolling: posting controversial statements in forums/communities designed to agitate and draw replies. Like the fishing technique.

>>24490895
to me this is what clearly differentiates a grifter from a normal writer
the grifter changes what they write to leverage the market. they see their writing as a product and the reader as a customer to exploit, so they see nothing wrong with writing whatever statistically gives them the best shot
the writer has their own creative intent separate from what other people want. their writing begins with them and their ideas. everything they do to meet the market is separate from the contents of their writing. presentation, marketing, networking, workshopping blurbs, refining cover art, using tags to make themselves visible, etc
>If I did not want people to read my work, there would be no reason to write it down
nothing wrong with wanting to share but I think there is something worthwhile in creation and acting out your ideas even if nobody ever knows about it

>>24490928
>the writer has their own creative intent separate from what other people want. their writing begins with them and their ideas. everything they do to meet the market is separate from the contents of their writing. presentation, marketing, networking, workshopping blurbs, refining cover art, using tags to make themselves visible, etc
This is narcissism, and unpopular for a reason. Homer didn't write The Iliad because he was expressing himself, and he absolutely hyped up certain things because it appealed to his audience more.

>the grifter changes what they write to leverage the market. they see their writing as a product and the reader as a customer to exploit, so they see nothing wrong with writing whatever statistically gives them the best shot
This isn't grifting, it's normal. Grifting requires lying or scamming. Producing a product people actually want to consume is no more "grifting" than is drawing fanart of a popular character because that's what people want to see.

>but I think there is something worthwhile in creation and acting out your ideas even if nobody ever knows about it
That's what makes it narcissistic masturbation. If you write something and nobody ever sees it, but you enjoyed it, that's literally just masturbation. Even worse if one writes some godawful trash and five people see it and it disgusts them, but the author enjoyed it so they insist it's good actually and has artistic merit. It's not true and it's just a cope so that the author can larp as an artist despite nobody liking their work. Tolerating that bullshit is why we have "modern art."

And coming into this general thread and attacking people who want to write more popular, BETTER stories for wanting to be popular/successful/better is absolutely trolling. Every other thread on /lit/ is fart huffing, if you want to huff farts, go to one of them.

>>24490966
>has to completely misinterpret everything I saw into an auteur box by labeling as many things as masturbation as he can
it is not narcissism to have creative agency and a personal intent. there's nothing masturbatory about doing things for the sake of doing it. you assume an implicit self aggrandization to discrete behaviors. not everything has an ego attached and not every one relies on extrinsic motivation to drive their actions
it's not grifting to write to market, I'll give you that this conflation is a bit dishonest, but it is hustling which is only marginally less vile and pathetic. there is absolutely nothing meritorious or worthwhile about doing something that you have no personal investment in, that you don't appreciate, that you don't understand, that you only engage in because you think it'll make easy money
I'm not attacking people who want to write better. I'm shitting on people who want to make easy money and don't give a single shit about writing or storytelling. I notice this tactic being pulled a lot after I brought up this subject. you conflate quality of writing and effort in writing with success and effort in making money which is not the same measure. you conflate all critics with self indulgent auteurs. you conflate those looking to exploit the community for a quick buck with people who just want to write and be read
I bet you're one of the people either looking to or have been exploiting the webnovel micro boom and are trying to deflect a critical eye that would differentiate you from innocuous writers. you are not in good company. if you need money so bad then get a job

>>24490966
Agree with everything this anon said, thanks for articulating it

Anon you came in here attacking the whole thread
>>24489625

and also were shit talking on wg
>has the web novel thread acted as containment for posters who come in babbling about muh market research and trying to crab anyone who isn't putting money first?

I doubt anyone here is writing for "money first" we're just not fart huffers that completely ignore the market. we discuss how to reach and audience and writer for an audience because that's a normal thing for authors who want to go pro.

95% of the authors whose work you like do the same, I guarantee it

also im not reading those ridiculous blocks of text when you're just trolling btw so idk if you addressed what I said, I don't really care

why are you even here? I'm still waiting on your favorite web novels because I'm damn near positive you don't actually read them, you're just the /wg/ troll come to add /wng/ to the list or some shit

>>24491034
Not him, but here's a list of RR stories I enjoyed a lot, in no particular order
Beneath the Dragon Eye Moons
Azarinth Healer
1% Lifesteal
Paranoid Mage
Blue Core
Vainqueur the Dragon
The Exchange Teacher - Welcome to Dyntril Academy
Dungeon Diver: Stealing A Monster’s Power
Taste of Magic: Archmage's Shadow [Slice-of-Life LitRPG]
The Pinnacle Warrior [LitRPG Dungeon Diving]

I did also read the Ascendance of a Bookworm WN in moonrunes when the Japanese LNs were still not fully published. Great writing even in WN form.

>>24490876
The way I see it, there four (4) types of writers for webnovels:
Sloplord: writes the more unapologetically autistic magic/ki (whatever the fuck is called) system, full-on escapism, zero quality control. Most tend to be asians, tend to have a lot very niche stuff on them
Money: low-to medium, it all depends if they find other autist who share their specific niches
Readership: see above
Autism level: 10/10
Population: medium-high
The Whatevers: as the name indicate, these ones just write whatever the fuck they feel like posting, extremely niche stuff very rarely seen on sites like RoyalRoad (poetry, short story collections, litfic, non-slop fantasy/sci-fi, historical fiction) quality is medium to high
Money: Lol, Lmao even.
Readership: extremely low to nonexistent
Autism level: 5
Population: very low, more likely to find them on their personal websites, substack or obscure internet forums.

>>24491032
when the micro boom started a few years ago /wg/ would get tourists who would come in and ask "hey how do I make easy money doing this shit" and following you would get people with the most vapid writing takes getting aggressive and hiding behind this same thing you're doing: acting as if there is some fundamental divide between you and anyone who criticizes tasteless writing practices which somehow places you as noble and them as fart huffers
if you aren't one of the people looking to exploit the culture and community, why are you so aggressive? sure, my first post was a bit shitposty, but it kept the floor open to the idea that not everyone is a soulless grifter drifting in because they smell money. I had back and forths with several people who basically said "I just want to be write what I want to write and have people who read it. I agree that there are shitty people like that but it's not all of us." yet you're all aggression and wide sweeping statements
no way to know but if you got offended by the suggestion that there are grifters here and are still offended even after I've shown I'm posting in good faith, then you're probably the problem
>>24491034
bro I'm not posting the shit I like just for you to shit on and no true scotsman me on. the post I made in /wg/ was asking asking if there was anyone whose RR stories I could read because I wanted to keep it in the community

>>24491050
bro... almost all of these authors write to market
the author of the first on that list started a goddamn publishing company......

>>24491053
(Cont)
Commercial ones: the equivalent to the writers of old magazines, people who like to write and want to be read/gain cash too. These have stories to tell, but adjust them (be it tone, format or priority wise) to please their readers.
Quality is low to medium
Money: low or very high, nothing in between
Readership: medium, this one in particular is a very cutthroat environment, so you will shit like people scratching each other back or organizing to fuck people over
Autism level: 5-8
Population: very high, most are this type of writer
The grifters: lazy/poorfags/thirdies who saw a video of a pajeet explaining how you can make money churning out ai-generated slop. Nonexistent integrity, its all about the money honey. If they can't manage to grift people to their patreon quickly, they dumped their garbage on amazon.
Money: very low
Readership: low
Autism level: 0-1 (mostly normalfags and pajeets trying to make a quick buck)
Population: low but is quickly exploding to medium

>>24491055
>admits to shit posting with inflammatory sweeping statements
>bro why are you all aggression and wide sweeping statements, you're probably the problem bro
Like I said, fuck off please, this thread was cozy until you got here. I don't think anyone in /wng/ is a grifter, just slop enjoyers taking the marketing half of their potential career seriously. Yet here you come accusing the thread of that then backpedaling and saying "well man I was just opening the forum for discussion!"
you are so grossly disingenuous man, genuinely fuck you

>>24491077
Yeah, I'm not involved in the shitflinging, just wanted to share some good WNs I enjoyed.

If anyone sees something missing from my list that they think I'd like let me know, I'd appreciate it.

>>24491053
>>24491080
I generally agree with your breakdown
the sloplord is an ubermensch and the type of man I aspire to
I think there's a gray area hybrid/inbred of the sloplord+whatever+commercial that genuinely want to write slop, don't care enough about readers to bend their own creative integrity, but do care enough to play the game to some extent; review swapping, adding title tags, adding the "can expect: XYZ" trend, etc etc
I assume this hybrid writer to be the default. I think lots of people genuinely like writing their personal slop of choice, be it superheroes or gamelit or xanxia or whatever and would like success, but aren't soulless enough to slop churn

>>24491086
I had the ratios backwards. it seems there isn't a majority grifter retards, just you
>REEE GET OUT STOP ENCOURAGING DISCOURSE ON THIS TOPIC
nah. leave my hobby and never come back. you and your kind took a fat stinky shit all over a culture that you don't even know existed and it's never coming back

>>24491104
you have literally zero reason to call me a grifter. you're just butthurt because I called you, the self admitted troll, a troll
I've been reading serials since 2017, and I will happily tell you my favorites, and you wont, because, once again, I seriously fucking doubt you read (or write) in this space. i do both and have for a while

>>24491132
wait a second
holyyyy shit are you the dude who spent years constantly derailing threads chain replying on your melties?
>constantly talks past the other person
>flips out at any criticism
>compulsively chain replies for hours and hours once set off
>pushes strawman onto the other poster
>repeats simple talking point over and over
christ. the topic is even hating on profit first people in the community. come on, if it's you then you have to admit it. we're practically old lovers at this point with how many times I've set you're whiny ass off
I was calling you a grifter on the sole premise that you're being an inflammatory fuck when everyone else went "nah bro" and talked about the state of the culture and their personal perspective on managing their writing and marketing

>>24491141
>There's literally nothing wrong with writing what an audience wants so that the author can get paid, and nothing wrong with an author explicitly trying to farm money out of the audience. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot who probably thinks art as self-expression is the height of art.

>>24491145
yeah sure you win I kneel whatever. if you really don't want to read the replies where I talked about the topic to people willing to discuss you can take your self made W
now tell me, is that you? are you the guy who camped in /wg/ and would blow up just like this on a near daily basis?

>>24491141
you accidentally admitting that you've been getting in long, protracted shit-flinging fests for literal years is really hilarious and doesn't surprise me at all
no, anon, that was not me. or maybe it was once or twice. all you did was describe how every argument goes on 4chan

>>24491155
this was not me either >>24491145 you're one of those borderline schizos who assumes the million different people you pick fights with are the same person. get help. you are the only one addicted to 4chan arguments and its really fucking obvious

for me, I just like writing big mechas and even bigger ships shooting at each other with a side order of politics desu

>>24491164
Based, reminds me of TTGL. Which I need to rewatch by the way.

>>24491162
kind've a shame
I take breaks from /wg/ and come back every once in awhile to check in since the thread has had periods of being great and through the years that guy's always been there. every general has its regulars and he was one of the schizos
I genuinely do like webnovels and have been a proponent for them as a respectable medium for a long time. yeah, I fucking despise grifters and hustler. no, not everyone who writes and does little things like review swaps is a grifter/hustler
I didn't come in to just start fights or arguments. I made plenty of posts discussing the subject and only a couple bitching at that guy raging out

>>24491099
What you're asking for is a literal contradiction
The Sloplord is one because he doesn't have any kind of standards for what he writes (and reads) he has an extremely high output thanks to that
The Whatever is one because he's mostly writing for himself, a hobbyists. Even the sloplord hopes to find other autist to sperg out with him. The Whatever on the other hand either is: completely demoralize, is a richfag or doesn't want to turn his passion in a obligation. So he's only real audience is himself (and that's ok for him) since they don't have any kind of comprise or real objective, his output tends to very low and sporadic
The Commercial one sets himself some standards on quality (unlike the sloplord) and very stricts schedules (unlike the Whatever) because, in order to achieve one of his two (2) objectives (the first one being telling a story and the second earning something from said story) he MUST have said standards and schedules. Whether they like it or not, it stops being a hobby and turn into a job (not their primary mind you, but a job nonetheless)

I want to ask you something. Are you a writer? Because you sound like a reader who has a very naïve and idealistic view of what an writer is and is not.

>>24491170
>most of the posts here are about money making schemes
>where is the love for the game
>do any of you actually like what you write or do you see this as a side hustle?

you came here to pick a fight. at least be honest about it. or do you just lack any self awareness? that post is 100% a troll post

>>24491172
I am a writer. I write a lot actually but I am anti-social about it and have my own retarded hang ups that get in the way of me posting. I used to join workshops and communities and all that, got into a few mags. made the shortlist in a national contest (lame brag but it meant a lot to me leave me alone). I have posted a fair bit to RR but shamefully deleted both the stories I posted (one 30~ chapters and one 50~) because I felt I wasn't able to do it justice and was struggling to keep up with the pace required for serial writing. these days I write wholly for myself
to rely on your framework you're suggesting here, I fit in most with the whatever in that I don't really give a shit about other people and trust that well written work will eventually do well. probably naive and I get that it sounds it. of course I have no disrespect for people who do the marketing work, I'm not so naive or idealistic to think that good writing alone is good enough, but I think there's a vital distinction between writing to market and marketing your writing
I'd say I'm both a writer and a reader. I might be more of /wg/ger in personality, since I view my own writing as a craft that I want to endlessly refine, but I admire the authentic /wng/ sloplord and always have

>>24491178
you might not be the poster I thought you were, but you're embodying all the same whinging
next time I see a melty like this I'm gonna ask if it's you. you are hereby obligated to shamefully admit to it if you get caught acting like this again

>>24491196
brother it takes two to shit-talk chain reply and you're doing it as well. difference is I didn't come in swinging with obvious inflammatory remarks that we specifically split out of /wg/ to avoid.
like i said have an ounce of self awareness. if you smell shit everywhere you go check your goddamn shoe

>>24491198
reply to me again
biiiiiiitch

I can't tell if I like this dipshit or not

>>24491199
Really proving my point. But you're right, I will leave now, I have writing to do. Please scroll up and pay attention to how this thread was cozy until you got here, as have the past several threads. Methinks the /wg/ troll is you

>>24491203
I am here to stay because I love webnovels and I want to support 4ch writers because /wg/ helped me a lot years ago and I've always taken satisfaction from giving back
I am going to set you off again with some innocuous remark. you will chain reply your life away on me. I am the moth to your flame and the shaking in your knees. you are helpless before this urge

>>24491192
Why did you deleted the stories? You're never going to improve if you can't see your past work and correct or learn from the mistakes in it. You should finish them.
And about the "I struggled to keep up with the pace for serial writing" were you getting paid? Or you had viewers? (No, 50 viewers doesn't count, those are all bots) if the answer to both is No, then you didn't really had a schedule to follow, after all, its just for you, no?
You also mention believing that a quality work will "do well". That alongside your humblebragging about the national contest, leads me to believe you're a commercial writer (remember, is not only money, its also getting readers) who got disillusioned due to a lack of success on such an cutthroat environment as RoyalRoad and begrudgingly became a Whatever, not a " whatever, I like doing it" but a "whatever, no one would read me anyways"

>>24491164
i want more space ship combat novels, can you suggest some?

Yo, kneegrows. Shouldn't we make a new thread already?

>>24491312
you may be right inner-critic anon
I deleted the first one because I was embarrassed by it. it was early on, when I was first learning, and looking back it felt like a black mark to have it out in the open for everyone to see. the second I deleted because I couldn't keep pace, not that I had any real manager or deadlines, but just that it felt so wrong to not meet the standard I had set, and further, a betrayal of what a serial is in the first place. as I slipped further and further out of pace and behind, I felt that the promise to the readers joyously leaving little comments had been broken and irrevocably defiled so I put it down out of shame
I don't believe that I desire success, which would qualify me under an abstract of commercial writer, but rather that I desire to fulfill the integrity of the work itself. the promise of the piece. a horror must be horrifying, a comedy must make you laugh, litfic must really make you think.tm, and a serial must be there for you week after week
maybe having any qualifications and standards over myself at all makes me in some form a kind of "commercial writer" and I should come to peace with the similarities in our differences, and embrace the goal oriented striving
all in all you're right. ego is the enemy and the only way is through. I hope to be working on a new serial soon and posting alongside you all

>>24491316
Can't think of any that isn't my own which is the frustrating thing.

>>24491330
Absolutely not. To do so would be to start tainted. Be patient and silent until the time is right.

>>24474794 (OP)
who here uses AI. Best tools for writing, automation, what's your workflow, do you make money? do your readers care if you use AI?

>>24491345
>I feel it was a black mark
You know you could have just make another profile to start fresh, right?
>I wasn't meeting my own standard
Was it reasonable? Was this your first time having to output consistently?
>I feel the promise to the reader was broken
It was broken when (You) decided to pull the plug on the story. You could have said "Hey guys, sorry for not being able to keep up, it was my first time doing something like this and it was overwhelming, I'm going to take X amount of time to train my writing output, don't worry though, the series is not abandoned, I'm going to relaunch it.
>embrace the goal oriented striving
Yes
>hope to be working on a new serial soon
Make sure to finish this one, dropping stories can become a bad habit pretty quickly and erodes readers trust
One last question: how old are you? I feel you have the same struggles as someone who's young (or very inexperienced)

>>24491492
I probably should start a new account thinking of it
25. I've got a young man's uncertainty and habit to pointless worry