Is /lit/ a Camille Paglia board?

>>24477267 (OP)
i dont know why, but even now that she's elderly, there's a very strong sexual attraction i feel towards Paglia. She has a certain je ne sais quoi.
You also just know that her idea of pillow talk would be to rant about how Foucault ruined American philosophy

>>24477267 (OP)
She's OK. Not bad, but not a genius either.

>>24477267 (OP)
yes, she's been posted here for years, you could say decades

>>24477548
Not really, theres like 2 paglia threads per year, probably below top 100 discussed intellectuals on /lit/

>>24477267 (OP)
/lit/ convinced me to read her and I wasn't disappointed, plus I can now unironically say I've read feminist literature.

>>24477659
i dont disagree but she's been posted for years

>>24477659
Buddy, there's about 10 intellectuals discussed on /lit/, who're you trying to trick here?

What's everyone's favorite essay of hers?
For me, it's Cults and Cosmic Consciousness: Religious Vision in the American 1960s

>>24477267 (OP)
Self-hating lesbian with massive penis envy bitches about women not acting like men enough.
Incredible stuff.

“Male urination is a form of commentary.”

>Camille Paglia, Sex and Violence, or Nature and Art

>>24479188
she's right, a male can aim with his penis and precisely piss all over whatever he wants, a woman can't.

>>24479218
Why can't more women say this?

"Male urination really is a kind of accomplishment, an arc of transcendence. A woman merely waters the ground she stands on."

>>24478072
If anything she bitches about women not being feminine enough. And where is she self-hating, she's incredibly comfortable in her skin and has a funny, outgoing personality. Is this you, Lena Dunham?

>>24479188
The vagina is lurid t. Camile

>>24479409
No, her definite issue is women not being masculine enough.
Her characterization of Cthonicism (associated with femininity) is entirely negative.
She thinks women that aren't masculinized, like herself, are basically worthless in any cultural sense and contribute nothing of note.
She has a horrible case of penis envy and wishes she herself was born a male, "Male urination really is a kind of accomplishment, an arc of transcendance. A woman merely waters the ground she stands on." She only sees women as stagnant, impotent, uninteresting, and unambitious. Where men provide every bit of dynamism and energy in society, culture, technology, etc.

Her ideal world is one where women graft pseudopenises onto themselves and work in construction alongside burly and strong men.

>>24479509
There are thousands of pages of paglia gushing over feminine qualities. And her characterization of the chtonic is anything but entirely negative. Get the fuck out of here, you haven't read her.

>>24479568
There is not a single time she does anything but characterize the cthonic sphere as a negative.
Even Nietzsche had a deep respect for it, but Paglia totally throws that out and treats it like a boat anchor dragging humanity down.
She's a miserable pile of penis envy that only enjoys pointing out how she's different from all other women, ostensibly on account of being a dyke.

>>24479576
>this thing that this art historian and philosopher talks about constantly, praises, see's as fundamental to human nature and all great art?
>she hates that

>>24479576
Also what do you mean
>Even Nietzsche
>Even
When the appraisal of the dionysian was his whole Deal? You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about

>>24479590
She does not see the cthonic as being vital to great art at any point.
>>24479598
He obviously has a stronger lean toward the Apollonian throughout his work, but does acknowledge the value of the Cthonic where it works at making humans more true to themselves.
But the Apollonian realm is absolutely more important to Nietzsche than the Cthonic realm. He wants Apollonians that understand the Cthonic perspective on themselves, not wholesale embracing of the Cthonic.

>>24479636
>She does not see the cthonic as being vital to great art at any point.
Wtf are you talking about? In Sexual Personae alone there are countless examples of her praising the cthonian elements of canonical works. The whole reason why Balzac's Cousine Bette is such an alluring and strong character is because of how cthonian and dionysian her temperament is, how domineering she is over the frail protagonist, like the Earth-Mother that consumes her own son. She also heaps praise upon praise on the Mona Lisa for being a perfect visual representation of the cthonian through the ambiguity of her comportment and the apocalyptic desolation of the background (she directly correlates the cthonian with the "sfumato" motif, with the smokiness representing metamorphosis and intangibility, like the cthonian female's menstruation cycles and curves/flabs). She again brings up sfumato in the Decadent art chapter when talking about Gustave Moreau's Helen at the Gates of Troy and emphasizes the strength of the imagery of the seemingly dismissive cthonian, faceless Helen juxtaposed with the smoky bloodbath underneath. The entire section on Swinburne is founded upon his mastery of invoking cthonian figures and exploiting their mythic connotations to the fullest extent. Again when she praises Baudelaire for his depiction of encroaching cthonian elements on the glossy hubris of Apollonian naivete. She calls Wuthering Heights a cthonian masterpiece, even if it was written by a more masculine minded woman (if i remember correctly she even calls Heathcliff a domineering cthonian figure because she reasons that Emily self-inserted as Heathcliff rather than Catherine). The main focus of her praise when she's talking about Aubrey Beardsley is how suffocatingly he depicts cthonian figures in his art, and how measly and pathetic the male figures look in contrast. Regarding Walter Pater's work, her main detraction with him is that he's not cthonian enough; his prose is TOO airy and Apollonian, too limpid and lacking in assertiveness and verve. The same but to a lesser degree with Henry James.

>>24479991
She also generally disregards the English social novels in the vein of Austen because they're all way too Apollonian in nature, aside from Emma's opening section while Emma's still being a catty self-serving bitch and one slightly domineering character in Middlemarch which she talks about for like half a page. Time and time again Paglia emphasizes that the cthonian's presence in art, especially art that represents a battle between the cthonian and the apollonian in its dynamics and allegories, is absolutely integral for truly energized art. She even points to Molly in Ulysses as a modern example of the dichotomy. This is also why she admires Homer and The Fairie Queene, and Antony & Cleopatra so much, and Virgil slightly less so (due to the awkwardness of its representation of the power struggle between the two forces).

>>24480023
Forgot to mention Coleridge's Christabel where she argues for the importance of the cthonian most potently. She even points out that the poem loses all of its intrigue and creative energies once the vampire figure is relegated to the background in Part 2 of Christabel. She also rationalizes Goethe's genius emerging out of a rebellion (and eventual reconciliation) with his cthonian mother. See the haggard old women in Faust. The entire conflict of Death in Venice is underscored by the noxious cthonian decay of swampy, derelict Venice (which eventually kills the protagonist), whose human parallel is Tadzio's mother, who keeps him subjugated and castrated and relegates him to the role of the "beautiful boy".

>>24477267 (OP)
I don't think I've ever heard any women or female peers talk about Paglia. I'm curious what most of them think of her since her brand of a feminism and transgenderism is so detached from the current social dogma.

uuuh hello based department?

>>24480381

more like faglia lmao

Does she say anything interesting or is she just another case like RadfemHitler, that chuds follow despite feminism because she says something edgy from time to time?

>>24480390
>I shlick to gay fisting and i think Heinrich von Kleist was a faggot
Absolute drivel.

>>24479509
Sounds good to me. Certainly preferable to the world we now inhabit where the men all wear chastity cages and simp for mommy boss.

>>24479509
i cant make much of the urination quote, it's consensus that male urination is better

>>24479991
>>24480023
>>24480110
Do you not see the contradiction here between your stance and what she actually is saying?
She's only interested in the Cthonic in art in the form of women being shitty assholes and celebrates art that makes them look domineering, regressive, spiteful, and a target for the Divine Male to destroy and reassert dominance over.
For her to compliment this, art works from the perspective that the Cthonic is lacking value in of itself, but exists merely to become a target for the characters within a work to destroy or for the reader to come away with a lesson in learning about its danger.
Its like saying that Jordan Peterson (an 'intellectual' on Paglia's level) loves the idea of the dragon and embraces it because he likes stories where people slay dragons.

There are no works that are wholly Cthonic that she has any interest in or respects as being meritorious.
She's only interested in the Cthonic as a dragon for the power of the Apollonian to slay or be defeated by in a great tragedy.
Helen of Troy is useless and weak, but she's a powerful negative force in the world in her Cthonicism drawing men in like a bloody whirlpool. She's a metaphorical sinkhole that draws men into the bowels of the Earth, not a figure that deserves respect in the Paglian lens.
The Apollonian Greek heroes are true heroes especially when they assert themselves over women and claim their position of dominance and their philosophical superiority.

>She also heaps praise upon praise on the Mona Lisa for being a perfect visual representation of the cthonian through the ambiguity of her comportment and the apocalyptic desolation of the background
This was pure midwittery schizobabble on her part that had nothing to do with a painting that was made of a local noble woman that only became important due to an art heist centuries later.
There's a point where art analysis becomes pure projection, and she crosses it many times.

She's /lit/ to the bone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm61LI_HkgM

>>24480628
>She's only interested in the Cthonic in art in the form of women being shitty assholes and celebrates art that makes them look domineering, regressive, spiteful, and a target for the Divine Male to destroy and reassert dominance over.
Not true, she literally spends several pages in the 2nd half of the book genuinely personally lusting over cthonian lesbian figures, and spends like 2 and a half pages at the end of the Gothic chapter talking about how shitty slasher films are and swooning over the vampire lady films of old, which showcases them in an extremely groomed version of the cthonian dominatrix figure.

>There are no works that are wholly Cthonic that she has any interest in or respects as being meritorious.
Yes there is, she calls Kleist's play "Penthesilea" a masterpiece, and the entire play is centered around the Apollonian "divine male" being mutilated and murdered by a Cthonian medusa figure.

Also, what's the problem with relegating cthonian elements to taking up the mantle of an evil, cruel antagonist? Aren't stories (with moral dynamics) supposed to have some form of characteristic distinction? Just because most representations of the Cthonian characterize it as evil and shitty does not mean Paglia therefore regards it as a cheap storytelling tool; she in no way devalues it and actually conversely emphasizes that good artists must take the cthonian really seriously and respect what it stands for lest their art come out limpid and trite. Which is her whole argument against Wordsworth and Rousseau and their frailty and naivete.

Paglia also refers to Cleopatra (in Antony & Cleopatra) as another enchanting cthonian figure, in a story that is unambiguously centered around the tragedy of a love laid to ruin by the rigors of Apollonian Rome, for better or for worse. Like Kleist's play, Antony is subsumed into the Cthonian Egypt and that is his tragic ruin. Paglia says that's what gives the play so much creative vitality, and so much symbolic and allegorical strength. That's hardly using the Cthonian as some sort of cheap, banal tool.

>This was pure midwittery schizobabble on her part
Ok so now youre shifting goalposts and saying that her praise of the cthnonian elements she spotted in the Mona Lisa doesn't count because she's "projecting"? Agree with her view or not, she's just laying out how it aligns with her own Freud-charged Apollonian/Dionysian theory.

>>24480628
Holy moving of goal posts. End yourself

>>24477267 (OP)
Hasn't she defended pedophilia?

>>24481231
Yes, although in the line of ephebophilia

>>24480390
>putting a gun in your mouth = homolust
Oh, give me a break.
Freud's influence remains catastrophic.

/lit/ I want to broaden my mind recommend me one (1) feminist book

>>24481262
Kleist is an obvious homo.

>>24481279
Okay, but that's got nothing to do with sticking a gun in one's mouth

>>24481292
You are also isolating a single sentence from the context. Its about his obsession with the imagery and the idea of a suicide pact with another man

>>24480567
>calls fisting hellish and disgusting
>asks what kind of woman could ever voluntarily come up with this shit
>retardanon thinks she's celebrating it

>>24481231
She completely took back her support once she found out the shit that NAMBLA were getting up to

>>24481337
>isolating a single sentence from the context
Shut the hell up and go fuck your mother, Freudian subhuman.

>>24477344
Damn he packin'