Was Buddha a fedora?

Was Buddha

>>24481985 (OP)
Yes

>>24481985 (OP)
Jesus Christ and Buddha are the same.

>>24481996
>there's no god
>but reincarnation
is he a deist or think that god is the universe, or just speaking metaphorically

>>24482009
You should ask him

>>24482009
>is he a deist or think that god is the universe, or just speaking metaphorically
He didnt deny the existence of lesser flawed gods as in classical polytheism, but he denied the existence of any one Supreme God that is not subject to ignorance or other flaws. He never provides any logical argument why said Supreme God cannot exist but just says “trust me bro I intuited it with my third eye”. Later Buddhists tried to come up with arguments to buttress this stance in leu of Buddha’s lack of logical support for it, but their arguments on this topic are all sophistic and easily-debunked.

As far as the universe goes, Buddha didn’t explain what orders it, how it has order or what ensures that things function properly. He didnt identify the universe with God though.

>>24482099
That's because in Mahayana "Buddha" mantles this conception of God and fulfills the same role

>>24482099
>He didnt deny the existence of lesser flawed gods as in classical polytheism
didn't he deny the hindu gods though

>>24482099
Dunno anon, he basically said that all gods are beings, and that all being is impermanent and soulless, so even gods are in samsara. this means that while a god may live for millions of years and do a lot of good so it may be worthwhile to pray to them for worldly needs, by the intrinsic nature of their being they too are trapped in samsara and cannot lay claim to salvation.

Now ofc, the Abrahamic God trumps this as the "essence of all existence" (the definition of God from their theological traditions) cannot be a being, but is beyond being, so the Abrahamic God is beyond the being the Buddha spoke of and not trapped in samsara itself, as well as having the power to control samsara to direct it towards heaven and hell eternally and the power to provide salvation. I am not sure of whether the Hindus treated Brahman the same way, but it's likely they did in the Hindu-Buddhist debate.

>>24482145
> didn't he deny the hindu gods though
No, he claims in the Pali Canon to have had conversations with the Hindu god Brahmā, I don’t know if he mentions the other ones. The Upanishadic concept of a Supreme Brahman predates Buddha and is found in Upanishads from 1-2 centuries before his time but he never makes explicit reference to it.

>>24482147
> he basically said that all gods are beings, and that all being is impermanent and soulless, so even gods are in samsara
Yes, however this only has value or makes sense if you already accept Buddha’s other assertions about those other things, it offers absolutely nothing to an uncommitted neutral party who is trying to evaluate what is correct without committing to either view a priori. In this sense, it cannot be taken as a valid logical argument since if interpreted as a formal argument it’s just begging the question.

>>24481985 (OP)
>be Buddha
>prince, rich, could’ve had it all
>walks out on everything to meditate under a tree and conquer suffering
>teaches non-attachment, inner peace, self-mastery
>literally tells people don’t worship me, find your own truth
>zero ego, zero threats, no hell, no LARP
>inspires millions without spilling blood
>be Jesus
>claims to be god
>gets executed after chimping out in a temple
>his followers build a death cult around it
>worship his torture like it’s a flex
>2,000 years of empire, genocide, and moral blackmail
>"believe in me or suffer forever bro"
>somehow not the fedora

>>24482321
>zero ego, zero threats, no hell, no LARP
are the narakas a later corruption? good post regardless

>>24482005
Even though they taught opposing things? no I think you are retarded.

>>24482321
>>walks out on everything
>including his children
haha so enlightened, bro!

>>24482338
How are their teachings opposed? Hard mode: don't cite anything written after 100 CE.

>>24482344
He returns to teach his son Rahula the basics of the dhamma in a later sutta. Even Christ said you had to abandon mother and father.

>>24482345
For starters, Buddah claimed there was no God, worship is not a concept with him and Jesus said to love God with all your heart and also claimed to be God. They don't comport; they have mutually exclusive claims. If you can't see that then you're not looking hard enough.

>>24482353
I don't care about doctrinal differences. How are their teachings opposed in essence?

>>24482348
>Even Christ said you had to abandon mother and father.
No, Christ said that you at to prefer God over your own family if they are unbelievers. Even if granted, abandoning your parents =/= abandoning your children. The bible says he who doesn't care for his children is worse than an unbeliever.

>>24482358
>I don't care about doctrinal differences
doctrine means teaching. Jesus taught to love God. Buddah taught there is no God. Simple as.

>>24482363
early Christian sects were far more diverse than you give them credit for. He also said the Kingdom of God lies within you

>>24482359
The early Christians of Syria and Palestine who wandered from village to village preaching the Word of Christ, arguably the closest the tradition has ever gotten to emulating the mendicants of the East, because they begged for their food unlike even the Desert Fathers and Mothers who worked for it, were not heretics and blasphemers. this board doesn't read but acts like it does

>>24482369
>early Christian sects were...
we weren't talking about early Christians, we were talking about the doctrine of Christ.

>>24482374
>I know better than those who lived within the afterglow of christ's coming
the internet is dead

>>24482009
>>24482099

Buddha did not address these questions because to him they did not lead to enlightenment. What you think he said is just what other people have put into his mouth. Most of Buddhism that deals with Brahma or cosmology is just part of the local substructure of myth. Buddha and Buddhism were not interested in subverting these local ideas about devas and all, because it had nothing to do with Buddhism and would only alienate potential believers. In essence, they are irrelevant questions. The only truth that the Buddha cared about, what's encapsulated in "Right Belief" or "Right Vision," are the Four Noble Truths.

I would say his only enagegement with Vedism (early "Hinduism") was to deny the Upanishadic atman, which was necessary, because the fundamental principle of Buddhism is anatta.

>>24482382
you are a dishonest fag

>>24482389
you're an urban christian who will never be one.

>>24482386
>I would say his only enagegement with Vedism (early "Hinduism") was to deny the Upanishadic atman, which was necessary,
There are zero examples of him engaging with the Upanishadic Atman specifically, as opposed to for example, the Jain Atman, its unclear if he was even aware of what the Upanishads from his time and earlier were even teaching about the Atman. An idea that is inseparable from the Upanishadic Atman is that it is free from suffering, blissful or is of the nature of bliss for example, and Buddha never engages with this idea at all. He doesn’t really distinguish what sort of Atman he is referring to besides saying its claimed to be eternal, but this is standard in all Atmavadin texts/schools even Nastika ones like Jainism and it doesnt identify what sort of Atman is being discussed.

>>24482527
>There are zero examples of him engaging with the Upanishadic Atman specifically
You are probably right. I mean the doctrine of anatta is implicitly a rejection of the Atman (regardless of what school it comes from).

> unclear if he was even aware of what the Upanishads from his time and earlier were even teaching about the Atman
I don't think that's even a remote possibiility

>>24482334
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.130.than.html

>>24481985 (OP)
He was a rich yuppie who decided to run away from home then starve himself then pester people for food. He was a total retard.

>>24482397
>>you are a dishonest fag
>you're an urban christian who will never be one.
Sure, Christians can't be fags because you can only become a fag after God gives you over to a reprobate mind to fulfill the vile lusts of your own heart, see Romans 1.

guénon and ananda coomaraswamy say reincarnation was an old wives' tale and not actually traditional in india

>>24482578
They both accepted that transmigration was a part of most traditional Indian religious teachings but they distinguished that from ‘reincarnation’ as popularly understood

>>24482610
what they meant by transmigration was the incarnation of the single one self, but still they never actually go to the extreme view of individual dissolution after death

>>24482568
Would he be a marxist

most of all, he was right

>>24482226
I would argue that the Buddhists have their faith in such premises through observation of phenomena via meditation, which does lend itself to impermanence and the non-existence of essences. A priori this cannot be known as faith in the observations made in meditation and some degree of faith in the Buddha is needed, hence why Buddhism is a religion. These premises are their axioms, the strength of the axioms lies in their experiences in meditation, hence why the Hindu-Buddhist debate and the Taoist-Buddhist debate could have dialogue but the Buddhist-Islam debate had both sides scratching heads and going to war instead. The same goes for an uncommitted neutral party that does not accept the claims and observations made via meditation.

>>24484156
The things I've seen in my 8000 hours practicing meditation make feel completely exhausted trying to discuss religion with non-practitioners. I doubt and try to invalidate my own experiences and be as rigorous as possible just to avoid the fate of potentially deluding myself but some things just become common sense that others think is schizo shit. I probably could only get meaningful discussion with a guru or other lifelong sadhaka. Religion is nothing without vital religious experience and the 99% get precisely none in their lives.

>>24484561
Share some of these things. I have an open mind.

>>24482338
They aren't though.

>>24481985 (OP)
>entire west is converted to a universalist religion started by a jew
>entire near east is converted to a universalist religion started by a ginger bedouin (?)
>entire far east is converted to a universalist religion started by a white aryan warrior prince
kino. all devotees of each religion have mental gymnastics to deny the identity of each founder btw

>>24484587
>Jesus was a Jew
>this deboonks Christianity
>an arrogant and perfidious people unable to seperate the material from the spiritual yet alone prize the spiritual above it believes they're special because of all the things they owe to God and could never have produced for themselves
>they think it is the material, physical being of Jewishness that saves them
>they reject the traditions their own God started
>their own God comes down, says gentiles can be saved too, relentlessly rejects what they see as having authority over him showing them how truly arrogant and helpless they are to think they can rebuke their own God
>he does all of this while being a Jew
>to remind them who they belong to
>who has power over them
>who defines them
>to remind them that he cannot be overcome or mocked because he is not bound to materialism like they are. He is not God because he is Jewish, he is God because he is God. He is not forbidden to act the way he does by Jewish notions of what a Jew should be, because he is God
>they fail to get this, even to this very day
>it shames them so much that everything else they do is an act of futile vengeance against it
>which means that Jesus being Jewish actually deboonks Christianity
Get new material.

>>24482005
Very Nietzschean of you. Though the guy himself never actually said their doctrines were equivalent only similar in purpose.
>>24482397
Through much of history, it was actually regarded as much easier to mantain virtue within cities than in the countryside.
>>24484587
Tbh the identity of the Buddha is not really important to Buddhists. You are just wrong on him being 'white'. He probably had lighter skin than most Indians, though.

>>24485121
Also Most Christians don't have a problem with the Jewishnesss of Christ. Only christian anti-semites who hate Jews for non-religious reasons twist themselves into knots.
And frankly Muslims aren't very argumentative about Muhammads ethnicity either.

>>24485088
>immediately spams mental gymnastics
His name was Rabbi Yeshua you freak. You're delusions are troon tier lmao.

>>24485121
Prince Siddhartha and his life and the Arya are very important to a lot of buddhists

>>24484565
NTA, but I’ll say that it’s not just Buddhism. Take Catholicism and Orthodoxy for example, there’s a lot of mystical experience to be had in adoration, praying the rosary, veneration of icons and in absolution, but barely anybody opens their minds to this and instead adopt a legalistic “this is sin, that is not” approach.

There are similar practices in Islam. Buddhists tended to not emphasize meditation for the laity until the last two centuries or so because of this complacency present in the general populace. People, whether simple minded or intellectual, often do not want any form of mental/spiritual cultivation and would rather have the “am I saved or nah?” question answered. There is no a priori basis for believing in the vast majority of the religions of the world unless one had a religious experience or encounter, yet in practice people join and leave religions because it’s convenient or they were born into it, or because of the influence of science, I guess.

It is hard to explain mystical religious experience, but if I were to put it simply, there is an element of it that is “wordless”, i.e, a part of it that cannot be expressed in human language. There is a reason why the Christians and others use apophatic theology occasionally and the Buddhists use koans and a lot of metaphors: this sort of thing cannot be described in words fully, it must be felt in one’s bones.

>>24482009
Dialéctical pantheist, he saud the world exist in eternity, but that eternity has the quality to overcome itself and become something else,tobuddha eternity Is not the goal but the enemy, the goal Is something beyond eternity

>>24482099
>, but their arguments on this topic are all sophistic and
Wrong, Indian and tibetan arguments against god are Solid af, no one could ever refute them

>>24482226
>just begging the question.
Notvreakly, since buddha's argument against the existence of god Is that there's no empirical proof of His existence only dogma(in this case the vedas), the ones defending god are the ones question begging

>>24482527
>zero examples of him engaging with the Upanishadic Atman
Wrong, he Said that our self Is not eternal, that's a quality of the vedantic ataman

>>24481985 (OP)
Not really, he didn't say God isn't real, but that God doesn't free you from suffering.

>>24485618
Can you point me to some books or authors? I'm interested to read those arguments.

>>24484565
Invariably if you hone your concentration (in meditation) and learn how to get truly still, the only result is light. Invariably some powerful light comes, either in the briefest of flash, or a sustained light that fills your body with ecstasy, but also instantly converts the mind to reverence and awe. Buddhists call it jhana and Hindus say if you go into the light eventually God will reveal his form to you, by His grace. Meditator after meditator gets this phenomena but it sounds like shizo garbage to the normal person. normally the light comes with a vision, some times it's nonsense, some times scary, sometimes serene. One upanishad has a list of symptoms that come in this state as indications that brahman is near. Further out of maya than normal awareness. It's just so profound to me that there's a Person on the other side. It changes the way I think about all the religions, especially Jesus.

When I read about Catholic states going into trances of ecstasy all the time, imagine where my mind goes. How could Christianity be exclusively true if Hindus and Buddhists are meditating and going into the light and getting enlightenment and so on? How are the saints not participating in some Satanic pagan misdirection... yet the catholics say it's a gift from God to them. I can't imagine hitting off a meaningful spiritual inquiry with someone unless they've experienced powerful states like this. And no amount of moralizing could dissuade someone from these experiences if they've had them, they feel more real than life as we ordinarily experience it.

>>24485618
>Indian and tibetan arguments against god are Solid af
Is that why no one uses them? Go ahead and post some of them. Also cool it with the zoomer speak

>>24485677
https://youtu.be/FbZDqFyTWzk?si=fU1poHaRpZRn6lLV

this vid has a lot of those arguments explained

>>24485700
>no one uses them?
Everyone use them

>>24485709
so post them

>>24482226
>however this only has value or makes sense if you already accept Buddha’s other assertions about those other things
You don't need to accept them, they're empirically self-evident, the burden of proof Is on the one posing the existence of an unproven thing, not on the one refusing to believe an unproven thing, no one needs to prove the non-existence of something only the one arguing firnthe existence of something, if something doesn't present itself as existente and has no proof of it's existence then we can just conclude it doesn't exist, the only "proof" of Brahman existence Is the vedas, which Is as an argument just a fallacy from authority and leads to circular reasoning, since the validity of the vedas Is explained by Brahman and the validity of Brahman Is explained by the vedas

>>24485712
Just Google them

>>24485701
What a grating autist voice

>>24485701
Thanks

>>24485742
grow up

>>24485686
How long did you practice meditation before being able to achieve this?

>>24483938
No, Buddha was not political.

4chan doesn't like traditional buddhism because you've got to do the work yourself

>>24485970
For me? 6 months. Complete newbs go on a meditation retreat and get it in two weeks. Some people get experiences without ever trying meditation. Read a lot of material about it, like the Buddha's guide on meditation (anapanasati sutta iirc), leigh brasington and ajahn brahm jhana guides, basically you sit or lie down, focus on one thing, like a thought or your breath, and focus on that to the exclusion of all else. eventually your senses "turn off", including your bodily awareness, then eventually you WILL get dreamlike visions, start seeing light, and magically the universe will just start making more sense to you. For whatever reason.

Read some science on nimitta, breath nimitta, jhana, neurotransmitter changes and all that.

>here are thee 4 noble Truths
>you must do them and meditate for 4 hours a day minimum
>avoid suffering at all costs
>but don't desire to avoid suffering haha
t. some guy

>>24485983
>eventually
Are we talking hours here or minutes?

>>24485983
>For me? 6 months.
And how many hours/minutes a day is this?

>>24486013
>>24486015
Usually an hour at a time. I lie down because it's most comfortable for me. Some people find they need to sit. If my body allowed it I would meditate 8 hours a day but you know. States that would take 45 minutes of sustained concentration initially take 3 minutes now.

>>24485419
>Take Catholicism and Orthodoxy for example
I agree with everything you've said, but I'd just like to add that unlike most other Protestants, Methodism also has a very mystical and experiential approach to faith.

>>24486120
>Methodism also has a very mystical and experiential approach to faith.
I want authentic Christian religious experience, tell me about this some.

>>24486180
Unlike our Reformed brethren, who often (although not always) take a very rationalistic and conceptual approach to faith, we Methodists place a heavy emphasis on spiritual experience that can't be reduced to mere conceptuality. That is because we place a heavy emphasis on the Holy Spirit, who offers all mankind guidance through His prevenient grace. This guidance comes experientially, particularly through a sort of quasi-sensory experience that assures us. It's difficult to convey in conceptual terms what this experience is, but that's kind of the point, it's very much a mystical experience. John Wesley, the founder of Methodism, described his Aldersgate Experience as feeling "strangely warmed" in his heart, which is the best description I've heard so far. I've felt it myself in moments of deep prayer, particularly when I pray to the Holy Spirit directly. It's an indescribable warmth that assures me and eases whatever doubts and fears I may have faced before praying. This experience also guides us towards loving action, even if we, as all men, are in a fallen state and often fail to live up to this guidance. Our emphasis on spiritual experience is reflected in our epistemology: while Lutherans and the Reformed base their knowledge in three sources (scripture, tradition, and reason), Methodists add experience as a basis of knowledge in an epistemological model called the Wesleyan Quadrilateral. Ultimately, it is through our synergistic cooperation with the Holy Spirit and His grace that we go through a process of sanctification that ultimately aims to restore the image of God within us. I'd argue that this understanding of the sanctification process is akin to the theosis outlined by Athanasius and the Eastern Orthodox Church, even if the language used to describe it may differ. It is possible that this Eastern influence came from Bishop Erasmus of Arcadia, who Wesley corresponded with (although the extent of this correspondence is disputed).
So overall, I would say that Methodism has a mysticism and experiential emphasis that's quite akin to Catholicism and Orthodoxy. While there are obvious differences, particularly in the veneration of saints and icons, we still place a very importance on experience that goes beyond conceptuality. It's worth noting, though, that this emphasis on the Holy Spirit and His experiential guidance can be abused, as in the case of our Charismatic offshoot, Pentecostalism. Spiritual experience and guidance is important, but mistaking glossolalia for spiritual gifts is just making a mockery of it.

>>24486388
Appreciate it

>>24486031
Do you use the kasina?

>>24486425
No. I have on occasion experimented with mantra as my meditation object, but usually I focus on just nothing at all. I don't recommend it however, it's just what works best for me. Supports like different kasina are really useful and you should use and experiment with any support for meditation that you can until you find what works best for you. Dont look at it like a purist who's going to develop their meditation skill out of their pure willpower and desire for mastery, use your supports and go into success as quickly as possible.

>>24485615
>the goal Is something beyond eternity
interesting, never thought of it that way.

>>24482005
This unironically. Midwits (and most christians) can only cope. The dalai lama called Christ the buddha of the west.
Just read Guénon (pbuh) at this point.
It's just that buddhism is apophatic, and apophatism exist in christianism and platonism too with the non-being beyond being, or hinduism with nirguan brahma. It's just that "religious" people are partisan and can't into deeper meaning, exotericism basically.

no, he's a panpsychic chud.

>>24482005
Christ and Buddha were similar, but Christ taught what the Buddha merely intuited through the universal Logos. Far from denigrating the Buddha, the Buddha is actually a great pre-Christian saint, much like Plato, Socrates, Heraclitus, and others.

>>24482005
not the same individuals, but they both possessed the Buddha essence, the Dharmakaya

>>24486388
Methodism is based as hell, the Wesleyan quadrilateral, their engagement in social events and their attitudes towards charity make a lot more sense. And now you're telling me they have mysticism in there as well?

I only wish that they emphasized high tradition more.

>>24488290
Thanks, I'm obviously biased as a Methodist, but I really do love what the tradition offers. I believe it synthesizes the best parts of Catholicism and Orthodoxy (their soteriology and mysticism) with the best parts of Reformed Protestantism (their iconoclasm and emphasis on scriptural authority). There's also our strong imperative towards loving action, which I see everyday in my local congregation. I agree with your point about high tradition, though, I do wish my church had a greater appreciation for ceremony. There's a good chance that the Episcopal Church and the United Methodist Church will enter full communion soon, so I'm hoping that such a partial merger could expose our churches to a higher view of sacraments (and maybe even an episcopal structure, so we could claim at least some measure of Apostolic Succession through ordination by Anglican Bishops).

>>24488369
I'm looking for a denomination, anon. Can you tell me which Methodist churches in America are not cucked? I'm pretty sure the most popular one is cucked bad like the PCUsa

>>24488433
>Can you tell me which Methodist churches in America are not cucked?
They're all cucked.

>>24488433
Honestly, >>24488453 is unfortunately correct, the UMC became progressive recently and the other denominations are pretty small. Still, it's worth mentioning that the UMC was the last mainline church to give in to this sort of stuff, and you can still find a lot of churches that don't go along with it. I go to a UMC church because politics don't come up often and there's a pious, charitable congregation. I'd recommend you at least try going to a service if you're interested, there's a better chance that you'll find a non-cucked church than in any other mainline denomination. If you are sincere in your faith and open your heart to the Holy Spirit, I'm sure you'll have a great service.

>>24488793
Thanks bro. I think I'll check it out, theres one in my town.

>>24486031
>I lie down
Wouldn't you just fall asleep?

>>24489186
No. Intense awareness keeps you awake. You CAN fall into hypnogogic states but you learn to recognize them as they start happening and "turn them off".

>>24482005
Not at all. I actually recommend scholars like Ehrman or whatever on Jesus. He was nothing like Buddha.

1. Jesus obsessed about prophecy and apocalypse. He didn't promote anything like enlightenment.
2. Jesus claimed to be divine or god. Buddha, in the Pali canon, claims to be awakened and with luminous mind. Anyone can become a Buddha by accepting 4 noble truths, following 8-fold path, and so on. Buddha is not in a special elevated divine status.
3. Jesus' crucifixion is seen as a "part of the plan." Buddha would heavily censure this saying it's against the Middle Way.
etc
4. Worship vs. non-attachment. Buddha would consider worship as leading to more attachments whereas Jesus encourages it.

It's not good to syncretize diverging paths. The closest teaching to Buddhism is Daoism, but even so, there are differences (e.g., Nirvana vs. Daoist immortality).

>>24489250
To be fair, Mahayana becomes much more like Christianity where Buddha (or a Buddha--Amitabha) becomes God basically and there is that promise of heaven-like place in the end if you just believe in him. It's very different from original Buddhism but it is a widespread form of Buddhism.

>>24489279
It depends on the sect of Mahayana. Ch'an, for example, is nothing like Christianity. However, you are correct about Pure Land Buddhism.
It may have been due to Nestorian influence, which had heavy presence in ancient Iran and much of the world.
Even Ancient China had heavy Nestorian presence.

>>24489279
Not all Mahayana is pure land school. If you am I then what is a bodhisattva doing?

>>24485983
>>24485686
That anon is right. Every spiritual practitioner should learn to attain and master the jhanas; everything on the path becomes easier after that.

He makes it sound like the method for attaining jhana doesn't matter, but in my experience, it's everything. A bad method won't just keep you from reaching jhana, it will actively frustrate you, which is the exact opposite of what the states are for. You see this constantly with the """M*hayana""" practitioners—most of them have no clue what the jhanas even are. You'll have guys who spent 12 years in a retreat and are still suffering physically from meditation, which is insane. Once you're properly concentrated, your body should be filled with sukha-niramisa and you should feel completely at ease.

My own experience was a mess for a while. I started with zhiné (which is shit, by the way; 99.99% of Tibetans are as incompetent at jhāna as they are at everything else). Then I moved to zazen, which is much better, and Zen has a lot of interesting breathing practices and tips if you have a good source. But even then, I ran into serious energy blockages (especially from the Tibetan garbage, man, fuck that stuff) and had very few notable experiences, so I basically stopped meditating.

Then, recently, I started practicing the jhanas following the instructions of Ajahn Sona (PBUH) and immediately experienced the breath nimitta. It felt like a "cool and airy emptiness of the head," not some kind of light show. As the great glorious Ajahn Chah (PBUH) said, there's nothing special about a light—my flashlight has one. With Ajahn Sona's (PBUH) method, I've never experienced a single blockage.

>>24482005
i am not kidding, there is a modern comedy anime exploring this.

>>24489820
link to said instruction?

>>24489960

https://birken.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Ajahn-Sona-The-Mystery-of-the-Breath-Nimitta.pdf
https://birken.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Ajahn-Sona-Meditations-on-Breath-and-Loving-Kindness.pdf
>(This second one is intended as a guided meditation script, but it's useful.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdSalC1yZFY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQyBKDKP59A
>(In this video, Ajahn (PBUH) explains the origin of his method, which is based directly on the similes the Buddha himself gave.)

There are plenty of other talks from him worth listening to on breath meditation, but these links cover all the essentials. More generally, I recommend watching all of Luang Por's (PBUH) videos; he's a real gem.

And don't forget what Ajahn Sona (PBUH) himself says about this:

>This is in the direction of profound concentration, the eighth factor of the Noble Eightfold Path. Do not expect to enter this state without a good deal of preparation, without a good deal of refinement in your life. It requires a great deal of sensitivity and refinement of the mind. On the other hand, do not think it impossible to calm the mind, to produce clarity and stillness in the mind. It is possible for the ordinary person to develop. Given enough patience and time and correct practice, one may learn the great value of breath meditation.

>>24490052
Thank you so much, anon. I have recently started to shift towards buddhism, and this seems like just the thing I needed at the time I needed it.

>>24489820
I'm the guy you quoted and I've never been impressed with the Tibetans' teachings. I dont know why the west is so fascinated with them rather than the pleasant hard work of Zen. I'll have to look up Ajahn Sona, thanks for that.

>>24489820
>>24489186

Does this meditation lead to effects that carry over into your normal day to day life? I can understand that the meditation experience itself may be transcendental but does it make you in your "waking" hours more Buddha-like? That is, with that inner peace, calm and benevolence? Because if it doesn't have these lasting effects, it seems like a dubious usage of time.

>>24489820
I'm just aiming to be a stream enterer at this point. I would like to have verification from a teacher that I'm at least a stream enterer. There's no way I will be enlightened during this lifetime.

I accept how in all possible worlds that dukkha will exist due to impermanence. Because impermanence holds in every possible world and in every possible world impermanence implies dukkha, it follows that dukkha holds in every possible world.

(□i∧□(id))□d

>>24489820
I'm just aiming to be a stream enterer at this point. I would like to have verification from a teacher that I'm at least a stream enterer. There's no way I will be enlightened during this lifetime.

I accept how in all possible worlds that dukkha will exist due to impermanence. Because impermanence holds in every possible world and in every possible world impermanence implies dukkha, it follows that dukkha holds in every possible world.

( □i ∧ □(i -- >d) ) --> □d

Anon, any genuinely strong experience necessarily changes one's mindstream, for better or worse. Consequently, when someone experiences rapture and bliss in meditation, they retain that bliss for at least several hours "off the cushion." The idea that it's a feeling you only have during meditation is a mistake.

The goal of jhāna is to counteract (and not suppress!) the five hindrances: lust, ill will, sloth-and-torpor, restlessness-and-worry, and doubt. Someone who can enter jhāna at will can then easily replace unskillful tendencies with skillful ones. He becomes independent from the world; as Ajahn Sona (PBUH) says, he no longer depends on sensual pleasure. He's "retired with a pension" and has the upper hand. The Dhammapada rightly states that one day with jhāna is better than a hundred years without it.

You can clearly see how jhāna counteracts the five hindrances:
> Lust is counteracted because you no longer depend on sensual pleasures.
> Ill will is counteracted because you experience profound bliss daily.
> Sloth-and-torpor is counteracted because jhāna energizes the whole system.
> Restlessness-and-worry is counteracted because jhāna pacifies the mind.
> Doubt is counteracted because jhāna gives you direct confidence in the teachings.

As I said, I only have limited experience with Ajahn's (PBUH) instructions. I've only attained the breath nimitta so far, which is a cool and joyful feeling. It's always nice to experience, but it's obviously not the full bliss of jhāna, which requires more practice and greater restraint in one's conduct.

However, I can now "evoke" this nimitta off the cushion and have that subtle, cooling and appeasing sensation (think of the feeling of being at the beach) with me wherever I go.

>>24490988
this was for >>24490665


>>24490582
> I dont know why the west is so fascinated with them
Because lamas are fucking liars. They lie constantly about their spiritual achievements and "siddhis". If you are a westerner don't know what Buddhism is, it's easy to be impressed.

Out of thousands of lamas, there isn't a single stream-enterer. A lama stops eating meat and the Tibetans freak out, thinking he's the reincarnation of Avalokiteshvara and a Sammasambuddha. I guess it's also because puthujjanas want their guru to assault and extort them, people like to join cults.

>>24490665
Yes it carries over after meditation. It slowly fades though. You go deeper and deeper each meditation and you carry more out into the world with you each time.

>>24484561
I’ve only had a few religious experiences myself but I would agree. I am also religiously paranoid about either becoming egocially attached to my experience as setting me somehow or another “above” other people who either dont believe or refuse to even try. Or that the further down an esoteric rabbit hole I go, the further away I get from friends and family, and loving them is important.

>>24485983
I had a similar experience that came by complete accident in a Catholic cathedral. Anything spiritually related was completely out of my head. I had rejected it for years, or at least forwardly so as not to appear stupid in front of my friends, inwardly I had superstitions and certain things I kept as sacred without explanation or real justification. I went to church alone, no service was happening, the whole cathedral was apparently empty. I was relieved by this, the noise from the streets around was exhausting. I sat in a pew in a little antechamber just to catch my breath, then it came as a flash. My entire conscious thought process, the monologue was silent. For the first time in my life I had full awareness of this quietness. Other times I could still this pattern of thought or emotion with enough active engagement in some activity, but it never just hit me squarely like that and while I was still and at peace. Time itself seemed to still. The volume on the whole world went quiet. I wasn’t even myself anymore, whatever I felt I was, simply wasn’t there. And yet, my body was there, I was still breathing, I was still there, but my identity my ego, everything, had vanished. It had all totally dissolved, I was an empty vessel, poured out by hands which were not my own. It was only after that that I knew that there was more to life than I could ever hope to imagine or even attempt to understand.

>>24489250
nta: buddha is literally worshipped in many branches with the nenbutsu prayer, which is seen as THE safest method for liberation after the degeneration of buddhism

there's actually no difference between taoism and buddhism as some taoists masters themselves state this

>1. Jesus obsessed about prophecy and apocalypse. He didn't promote anything like enlightenment.
you're wrong but it doesnt surprise me since you are using ehrman as reference

Jesus is Lord whether disenchanted westerners accept it or not, this should be clear enough to anyone studying comparative religion

>>24490988
>However, I can now "evoke" this nimitta
I'm the same. Some nimitta stand out and I can sort of 're-enter' them with concentration. It's hard to maintain constant concentration throughout the day while doing other things, but it's a wonderful boost.

>>24491189
That's a great paranoia, I always try to destroy my own beliefs and experiences, the Truth will survive all inquiry, and anything false will die.

>>24491207
Consciously revisit and dwell in that experience for as extended a period as possible, as frequently as possible.

>>24491224
>Jesus is Lord
Not compatible with Buddha's teachings.

>>24491375
Yeah, I hope there is some kind of reincarnation of some sort. At least a pathway in which a person who is solely materially focused can find a way to some sustained sense of peace of mind. A grounding or foundation in something peaceful and serene. I want my friends, a couple of close ones and my brothers in specific, to have the same kind of felt sense that I had so they would at least be considerate of a higher power. But it doesn’t seem to come to them, or if it does they ignore it. And I’m not persuasive enough or versed enough in apologetics to convince them otherwise. But I do my best not be angered by this, I don’t want to get into the habit of seeing myself as saintly or sagely and seeing them as ignorants. That seems like a clear and obvious false road, categorizing others so as to further spiritual pride. Sufism is out of my depth, but I came across this and I quite liked it. The final barrier to spiritual acceptance isn’t sin, but spiritual pride itself.


https://youtu.be/gdvOompk32I?si=X55Xd1BCp7yPkCuQ

>>24491376
I will try this, that seems more simple than other formal practices I have tried. Every other formal contemplative practice I’ve always had to stop and consciously second guess “am I doing this right” and lose the whole thing. Thanks for the suggestion.

>>24490988
Does it work to meditate on the 4 Brahma Vihara?

>>24491656

Of course you can. Bhante Vimalaramsi (PBUH) wrote a guide on it called "A Guide to Tranquil Wisdom Insight Meditation."

In metta practice, you don't concentrate on the phrase "may beings be happy..." but rather on the feeling it evokes. This can actually be easier for some people, since you can easily get the *nimitta*—a warm, pleasant feeling in the heart chakra—which makes the mind clearer and more joyful.

That's why Ajahn Sona (PBUH) suggests practicing a bit of metta before you begin breath meditation.

>>24490665
I'm an absolute amateur and even I can tell you that what you experience on the cushion will stay with you off it. The key is persistence and practice. Listen to the other anon, as well as Ajahn Sona, Ajahn Lee, Ajahn Mun, Ajahn Chah Nyanamoli Thero, Thanissaro Bhikkhu, and Bhikkhu Bodi.

>>24492501
How do I radiate metta to zoosadists, etc.? I understand it isn't about wishing them well, but wishing them freedom from their defilements, but it doesn't even feel as if there is anything in such individuals that exists to be saved, nevermind wants to be.

>>24490052
I hate to sound like a retard but these seem like they're targeted to people who already know and practice meditation. Is there something more beginner friendly perhaps?

>>24492901
Yes. Sit still or lie down. Concentrate on your breath. Count 10 out-breaths without a thought entering your head. If you notice a thought, restart the count. Continue as necessary. You can also not count, and just concentrate on the inhalations and exhalations. Concentration is the only important thing and you simply can't obfuscate it further than this.