Pynchon thread

>>24483449 (OP)
what is a shadow ticket anyway

I want to be optimistic, but I bet it's about as shitty as Bleeding Edge was.

>>24483449 (OP)
Im excited

>>24483514
PYNCHED

>>24483449 (OP)
is it another detective story?

Pynch must know /lit/ exists....

>>24483543
I mail his literary agent paper copies of all the threads about him

>>24483590
fr? that would be awesome.

>>24483514
I loved bleeding edge. wish it was twice as long

>>24483590
>>24483593
could prob just email the link, thoughever.

>>24483590
you mean his wife?

is that the secret to getting published? marry an agent?

I can't get into his works.
Start with V, didn't like the pacing and tone so I stopped after the first chapter.
Next, lot49, can't deal with babble in sex scene between the woman and that guy and his younger self's movie.
Is inherent vice easier to get into him? Or should I just go straight to Gravity's Rainbow?

>>24483624
you couldn't handle GR kid

>>24483624
Only one I’ve read is Inherent Vice and I fucking loved it. I plan on trying something else eventually but might just wait for shadow ticket

>>24483624
iq issue, that scene in the motel in tcol49 was hilarious lmao.

>>24483624
Sick with TCOL49, it's short.

>>24483624
You don't seem like a reader to begin with, so just forget about it.

>>24483449 (OP)
Hype as fuck about this, Pynchon is imo the best living author

Do you think I have time to read Against the Day Before this drops?

gimmick author

>>24483449 (OP)
He is going to write about some irrelevant time period again, isn't he?

>>24483624
I just said fuck it and went into Gravity's Rainbow.
Next Pynchon I read was Mason & Dixon.
Both in English even though I'm an ESL, so parts of it probably flew over my head, but boy did I have fun with those.

>>24483449 (OP)
Weird developments about Shadow Ticket recently...
Penguin and Amazon both show updated page counts, dropping the original ~380 page count to 288. But apparently the German translation has already been printed in its original 380 page length, so it might just be a byproduct of formatting/margin manipulation... But I don't know. Mason and Dixon had Advanced Reading Copies printed that were 70 pages shorter than the final book, and Pynchon only sent in the final version at the very last minute right before they were set to start mass printing M&D. Vineland was also originally 523 pages long instead of 390. Against the Day was also 60-ish pages longer at first iirc. Bleeding Edge had a whole extra character excised. What do you guys think?

>>24484481
1930s Europe

I can't wait to take a dump on its historical accuracy if it is really set in interwar hungary.

>>24484675
the reason gr was good was because the editors and publisher had no idea what was going on and were scared to cut anything, now since pynchon allowed white cat ladies veto power over his creative output its been over.

>>24484977
Pynchon interdicts editorial interference with all of his books, all of these changes have been entirely authorial in origin. Henry and Holt were more than happy to publish M&D in its original form, and AtD and Vineland's changes were equally last-minute, so they couldntve come from his editors.

>>24483449 (OP)
Soon...

>>24483449 (OP)
I guess shadow ticket is in Spain for bullfights they price tickets depending if you are on the sun or in the shade and shadow ticket is when you get to sit in the shade

>new pynchon book in 2025 (yippee!)
>a detective hide and seek story (mein gotti! that's how to succumb my bored mind )
>Story set in The great Depression (i sleep)

Why did he specifically choose october 7 as the release date bros? Seems meaningful

>>24485305
the true redpill is learning that the great depression wasnt even a big deal, one of the most exaggerated events in all of human history

>>24485338
What economic crisis in the modern era was bigger then?

>>24484675
>writing a book on 1930s Europe in 2025
And some of you seriously don't understand how Pynchon is losing notoriety?

>>24485335
it's the first tuesday of the month before holiday shopping season starts is all i wouldn't read too much into it

>>24485338
ya after covid i'm like so what other stuff in history was fake

>>24485362
30s europe is rise of fascism, a perennial topic for americans, so basically it's just another ww2 book for boomers

>>24485361
Weimar Germany and 1920s Russia

>>24485371
Silly me, I forgot we needed more material for boomers. Maybe Pynchon could write about his lived experiences. Oh, wait.

>>24485362
And what pray tell would be a more relevant topic or setting? 21st century America? Bleeding Edge. 60s America? Lot 49 and Vineland. 70s America? Inherent Vice. 80s America? Vineland. Post war Europe? V. Anything before WW1? Certainly not.

>>24485389
>Maybe Pynchon could write about his lived experiences.
His lived experiences completely permeate V, Vineland, Inherent Vice and Bleeding Edge from start to finish. V was inspired significantly by his time in the Navy. Pynchon based the town of Vineland off of a town he lived in in North California. Bleeding Edge is the Yupper West Side that he settled into at the start of the 90s. Inherent Vice is his time at Manhattan Beach in Cali during and following Gravity's Rainbow. He even went so far as to live in North England for a bit to glean some things about Durham that he could use for Mason & Dixon.

>>24485338
great depression killed jazz era which is sad.

>>24485391
Oh, right, I totally forgot that Thomas Pynchon already wrote an account of the 21st century 12 years ago by focusing on 12 years prior to the time of writing.

>>24485389
Can't write about lived experiences when he died in 2019/2020.

>>24485395
You seem to know a lot of personal info about a very reclusive man... how curious

>>24485404
That was closer to my point

>>24485402
So is a writer's job entirely to hone in on and fixate on what's happening at the present moment at all times? As if a significant portion of Bleeding Edge doesn't still apply to the contemporary state of affairs in America. Please.
2025 America is more or less the exact same as 2002-2008 America, save for all the chips being pushed in on social media platforms, let's not kid ourselves.

>>24485406
And what is it that you're implying...?

>>24485415
The last 20 years have seen an unprecedented pace of innovation and nobody seems prepared to properly comment on it.

>>24485406
None of the shit he said is a secret. Most Pynchon fans know it, if nothing else.

>>24485429
Au contraire mon frere, I think there has never been a time more stagnant than now. The two poles are complacency or disillusionment, and all culture operates on the spectrum between. Political protests have proven to be feckless outside of serving as a pretense for cynical, performative self-fulfillment or material/behavioral opportunism, and have largely assumed the form of past protests, without any of the ethos or conviction, what little treacle they had to begin with in older days. As for technology, surveillance matters have been broadly discussed, to a very sufficient degree, in Vineland and Bleeding Edge, and Gravity's Rainbow will forever encompass all discourse surrounding military advancements and the philosophy underpinning them. Lot 49 still applies to rudimentary forms of social media as well. Consumer culture and endless development sprawl is covered in most of his work. What other "innovations" are there. AI? That shoddy tripe that all-too-knowing businessmen pass off as the next big thing that'll never ever bring in proper returns on the exorbitant amounts invested? These businessmen and their bloviating were discussed at length in Bleeding Edge already.

>>24485423
What if Tom was one of us?

>>24485369
So much of what made COVID significant was the irrational reaction to it, of shutting down everything, of forcing people to stay indoors, of treating people who didn't want to take an experimental "vaccine" (which honestly seemed to do nothing) as second-class citizens. The Great Depression was probably also inflated as significant due to the irrational reaction to it. Reminds me of Y2K, which was also nothing.

>>24485455
That's ridiculous. He's nearly 90. If he was spending any time on the internet at all, I certainly wouldn't be on 4chan of all places.

>>24485335
Because Shadow Ticket is an ambush against the Jews

>>24485461
You'd be surprised. His sister was once asked what he'd be doing at that moment, and she said she didn't know, probably watching Brady Bunch reruns.
Pynchon isn't a snob. He loves schmaltz.

>>24485385
So the most significant economic crisis in American history shouldn't be a preoccupation of an American author because Zimbabwe had a shittier economy? Even with the examples you cite, it would obviously be "a big deal" in American history

>>24485468
That's besides the point. Of course an American author would focus on the Great Depression. But that poster claimed that the Great Depression really wasn't all that in the grander scheme of things, relative to the examples mentioned at least. Supposedly.

>>24485429
some new writer will show up and make it clear for us, can't expect boomers to understand the current era, too much change

>>24484472
What's the gimmick

>>24485490
Good prose

>>24484977
>the reason gr was good was because the editors and publisher had no idea what was going on and were scared to cut anything
Wrong. Gravity's Rainbow had about 50 pages cut from the final version by his editor.

Pynchon is shit
/thread

>>24483449 (OP)
I was Pynchon one off a little while ago

buy an ad Tom

>>24485549
>>24485596
>>24485601
based

>>24483449 (OP)
Is Gravity's Rainbow genuinely worth reading guys?

>>24485644
no

>>24485429
Houellebecq is as good as it gets, anything better can't come out of such a spiritually dead and artistically lobotomized time as ours.

>>24485644
yes

>>24485644
Reading right now and I think yes

>>24485644
Absolutely.

>>24485802
>>24485834
nta but I was thinking of maybe picking it up after I get off work (either GR or something by Zola) but I haven't really been able to get a vantage point on the book since most opinions I've seen on here about it are by retarded people you'd avoid like the plague irl. Would love to get some details on why it's worth reading, compared to more traditional storytelling like Zola's books. Thanks

>>24485802
>>24485834
nta but I was thinking of maybe picking it up after I get off work (either GR or something by Zola) but I haven't really been able to get a vantage point on the book since most opinions I've seen on here about it are by retarded people you'd avoid like the plague irl. Would love to get some opinions on the book.

>>24485903
It's one of those books that are endlessly rereadable because of how many distinct layers you can opt in and out of peeling back based on how you'd prefer to interpret what's being outlined throughout the story, and the prose always feels expertly and magnificently crafted, it makes the whole book feel like an intricately woven web into which everything is sublimated and recontextualized. It can also be riotously funny and it's got no shortage of absurd scenarios that come out of left field so it never feels like it's retreading old ground or over-emphasizing a particular point ad nauseum. The breadth of knowledge and technical know-how and insight in it is staggering, itself combined with the sheer verisimilitude of the vast swaths of cultural and intellectual references. The form perfectly feeds into the content and the book's themes (also done expertly in Mason & Dixon), and the various tangents it goes on makes its world feel supercharged with vivacity and vitality. It really feels like a work of genuinely inspired genius.

Reading Crying of Lot 49 again after Gravity's Rainbow and it's no where near the same level. Ill check out Mason and Dixon sometime but I'm afraid I wont as much as GR because of the old timey setting which Im not a huge fan of

>>24485962
wont like it as much*

>>24485962
If you can't get into Mason and Dixon try Against the Day, it's set only a few decades prior to GR. Mason and Dixon is full of fantastical elements and scientific exploration just like GR is, and it just radiates with life. You might find the first 110ish pages of M&D a bit slow especially compared to the breakneck speeds of GR (I adore M&D's intro section personally), but it really gets into its stride after that. Against the Day is closest in form to GR, it's absolutely suffocating with characters and digressions, probably the most "maximalist" Pynchon book. Lot 49 does feel like easygoing patball in comparison lol

Jesus Christ is the Son of God, Who died for our sins and rose from the dead to give us the free gift of eternal life. He also promises to heal your body. You can ask Jesus for His gifts.

>>24485925
Thank you so much, can't wait to get into it

>>24484456
you have more than 3 months

>>24485975
isn't v. closer to gr? it even has some of the same characters as gr didnt read tho lol

>>24485903
Read TCOL49 first. It's like the mini show before a serious man

>>24485925
It's also capeshit.

>>24483514
>I want to be optimistic, but I bet it's about as shitty as Bleeding Edge was.

Everything past Mason and Dickass is literary documentation of dementia. Guy needs a final paycheck for luxury hospice care. It will be a miracle if mid, or simply insane.

>>24483624
>I can't get into his works.

You have good taste.

>>24486809
>Everything past Mason and Dickass is literary documentation of dementia.
Except Against the Day was written contemporaneously with Mason and Dixon

>>24483624
that sex scene was one of my favorite parts in the book

>>24484456
Flow Chart:
>Are you retarded?
>>Yes?
No
>>No?
Yes

>>24486809
filtered

>>24484456
Had thought the same myself, I’m on page 85 right now. Good shit, yo.

>>24483449 (OP)
I’m usually a massive Pynchhead but I’m finding it impossible to get into Against the Day. I tried the audiobook (the voice is silly and the audio is mixed poorly), as well as reading the first few chapters over and over. But I can’t get into it. Is it because it’s steampunk? Help, /lit/bros, I want to read Pynchon’s entire corpus before he dies.

>>24483624
you may just be a retarded plen and may need to unironically stick to reading genre fiction

>>24483449 (OP)
He sux

>>24485975
I’m torn between reading M&D or AtD next. But the fact that you say AtD is similar to GR in structure makes me want to go there next.

I think I’m just intimidated by the olde English in M&D. I just keep hearing M&D is such a warm book compared to the coldness of GR. Is AtD pretty cold too?

>>24489612
AtD is much more goofy than GR and M&D, it leans into the whole cartoony pulpy extravaganza thing that GR was flirting with. GR feels much more dark and insidious in contrast especially with its subject matter. M&D's able to be as warm as it is because you're able to really sit and stew with the characters and their circumstances and how they develop over the book, and because its themes are refracted through specific figures and personages and how they react to and influence those circumstances. AtD is much, much more grandiose and breakneck because it's trying to encapsulate an era from the top-down, rather from the bottom-up as with M&D, but if you're able to gel with the zanier style and the seemingly endless digressions (the digressions are the point) then you'll have the time of your life.

>>24489612
>>24489632
I suppose what I'm trying to say is that if GR is clinical and cold and technical, and M&D is radiant and warm and rustic, then AtD is flashy and exciting and bombastic, like one big parade procession.

>>24488701
You got filtered by Chums of Chance? Holy moly

>>24489636
Wow thank you for an unironically helpful answer and lens to look at these different books. I’ll definitely read them both just gonna have to flip a coin on which first.

Currently reading House of Leaves, and maybe it’s because I’ve overdone with this style of book right now, but I’m gonna take a breather after that before diving back into Pynch. Might read Lathe of Heaven next

>>24489677
>Currently reading House of Leaves
Just a heads up, Danielewski's releasing a 1k+ page western a week or two after Shadow Ticket comes out, in case you're interested. I think he's moved past all the formatting games but it still might pique your curiosity.
And I'm glad I could help regarding Pynchon

>>24489686
Oh shit a western? I haven’t really gotten to those wacky pages yet, but I’m dreading when I do get to them. Glad he’s opting out of that. I just have a hard time reconciling that as anything more than a gimmick.

>>24489698
Yeah, based on the synopsis it's going to be more contemporary leaning (1980s i think?) and it'll be centered around two friends trying to round up some horses that vanished and end up uncovering some sort of large scheme. Not sure how well it'll be executed, but I'm intrigued enough to give it a try when it comes out.

>>24489704
Yeah consider me interested. This is the only book I’ve read by him. Do a lot of his works lean into horror?

>>24489705
Not at all, House of Leaves is the only book that you could label horror, the rest lean more into psychological thrillers or romance or "hysterical realism" type stuff like the Familiar series, and most of them aren't able to live up to what House of Leaves established anyways. There are bits and pieces of the Familiar series that are good in isolation but five 800-page books will start to wear on anyone... Unless you're reading Proust

>>24488701
Get back into it later. I never force books I get filtered by, most of them just click for me when I come back to them much later, forcing the issue never helps

>>24483543
he's nearly 90 years old dude lol

Still blows my mind how different Gravity's Rainbow and Bleeding Edge were. Maybe I should re-read the latter

>>24483624
V is unironically not that good.

>>24485467
you missed the joke nigga

>>24483590
>>24491918
He’s posted before.

>>24491918
Which joke might that be?
4chan isn't for youngsters, and even if it was, Pynchon has a son.

>>24485415
> 2025 America is more or less the exact same as 2002-2008 America
hahaha holy shit dude

>>24483540
Yes, private invesgiator chases an heiress to Hungary in the 1930s

>>24491972
We'll have to wait until 2037 when he will finally release "Stairway Reaction" to fully get how we live today.

>>24492318
The heck is a stairway reaction

>>24491958
What?

>>24483449 (OP)
Lot 49 has to be one of the worst novels ever praised by critics. The plot is a complete mess and the characters are paper thin; essentially they're just "funny" names (Pynchon apparently expected readers to laugh at characters named Geronimo and Mucho). And worst, he has no control over his prose: it's messy and convoluted and in a few places the sentences lose sight of themselves and fall apart under their own weight. And this is coming from someone who loves long sentences with sub-clauses like those of Henry James, whom Pynchon should have studied before writing his piss.

>>24492507
Pynchon loved Henry James and mimicked his style in his late teens/early 20s. I think Oedipa is one of the most well developed and fleshed out of his characters, there's a real depth to her based on how she takes on and characterizes her struggle with Tristero and her greater discontent with everything around her, on a more existential level. There's also surprising depth to Metzger and Inverarity even from what little we're given of them and what we learn by proxy; it's very subtle

>>24492507
Also Pierce Inverarity's name is an allusion to an "inverse rarity", which is a type of postage stamp error. Oedipa's name also fits because she's perpetually vying for some semblance of control or dominion over her surroundings, she's always wanted to "get one over" Pierce but now that he's gone she's stultified by the power vacuum. Mucho Maas also makes sense if you look at him as someone who's desperately trying to puff himself up as some sort of big-shot (which he eventually does manage to do, by farce, in the second half of the story), who is himself very insecure and susceptible to episodes of sentimental melancholy. He's trying to run away from thinking too hard about it all by bloviating and becoming some hip and flashy figure.

>>24492544
Captain Obvious to the rescue.

>>24492569
but i thought they were just le funny substanceless jokes? faggot

> left-liberalism with a side order of anarchism good
> niggers soulful and a bit scary but good
>drugs good
He fell for every 20th century meme and you're telling me he is worthwhile? Insightful?

>>24492521
Pynchon imitated James all through his career. It's actually concerning how whenever he wanted to sound poetic and seem observational he resorted to mimicking James.

>>24492521
>>24492639
>Henry James
What should I read by him?

>>24492544
>"inverse rarity", which is a type of postage stamp error
Oh really? What is the error? Would you mind posting an actual philately source and not anything related to Pynchon?

>>24492664
Golden bowl

>>24492664
The Ambassadors

>>24492739
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invert_error
2 seconds on google
>>24492664
The Ambassadors if you're willing to take a plunge into the deep end and are really capable of handling yourself when it comes to prose that seems to go on and on. If you're looking for a primer, I suggest The Portrait of a Lady, which is toned down considerably in that regard

>>24493148
yes i know about invert error and that says “invert error” not “inverse rarity”. i’m looking for “inverse rarity”

>>24493186
Do you think Pynchon should've named his character Inverterror then? But then you'd be lambasting him for his lack of subtlety
The name is also a pun on "inveracity" at the same time.

>>24493197
So no source on inverse rarity?

>>24493199
No, and I just got word Nabokov intended to name Lolita's narrator Pedophile Childtoucher

>>24493202
I accept your concession.

>>24493205
The book Moby Dick is about killing a whale

Hello guys
If I wanted to start reading Pynchon as a beginner where would you recommend?
I was thinking GR or 49

>>24494385
49 is actually not a bad start its accessible but produced during his dankest era, i just went straight into gr tho cuz that's his most hardcore banger

>>24485455
He's not but he knows of us because his son comes here.

>>24494385
>I was thinking GR or 49

Crying Lot is funny. Gravity is a shitpost you won't get mileage out of going in raw without an autistic foreknowledge of late war German Wonderweapon Projects.

>>24485476
The Great Depression wouldn't have really been that big a deal and shouldn't have been that big a deal, it was just exacerbated by stupidity and also jews trying to push communism in America after Germany and Russia. Like anon said. See the crash of '29 for example, really just wiped out a bunch of young wall street gamblers that made headlines and companies that were begging to be put out of their misery due to the advances in personal transportation and tech changes that were occurring at the time. The markets recovered relatively quickly. What was fucking dumb was that everyone got whipped up into a frenzy and freaked out as if it could happen to them so they all stopped fucking spending. Which, guess who scared the shit out of them through the papers? I mean wages during the first year didn't even drop at all, wages were completely flat, but next thing you know, they're all hoarding their money in mattresses and eating only soup so they save it. This continued through until about 1933 when most everyone agreed stuff was back to normal but then, oh surprise surprise here comes the Dust Bowl era (which a lot of people don't know that the Dust Bowl era didn't even start until 1933, the worst years being '33, '34, and '36 if I remember correctly). Which 10% of people had to sell their family farms to the banks of you know who. All the while they were pushing FDR to go full commie because it was an attempt to do a global revolution and take Russia, Germany, and USA. They were successful in Russia, almost successful in Germany, and tried like hell here in the USA.

>>24494664
McCarthy was... right...?

>>24494817
Always has been

>>24492507
>Pynchon apparently expected readers to laugh at characters named Geronimo and Mucho
I laughed at Mike Fallopian

>>24492507
>braindead normie expects a postmodern novel to continue the tiresome modernist project of attempting to crank out "realistic" characters with "contradictions" and "interiority"
filtered much

>>24494648
Thanks anon.
I'll start with 49 for now
:)

>>24495375
I didn't like 49 but really enjoyed mason & dixon

>>24495375
Lot 49 has a surprising amount of depth to it which is fascinating because even the most surface level interpretations of it are so interesting

>>24495536
elaborate

>>24496092
Lot 49 has a multitude of mysticist symbolism and references, specifically between solar and lunar influences and bodies. It's too longwinded to properly outline on 4chan, but here are some intriguing elements:
>Lot 49
>Lot's wife
>Lot's wife was named Edith
>49
>Liber 49, which is the Book of Babylon, or the Book of Antichrist (how did the Tower of Babel fall? communication breakdown)
>if you put Oedipa and Edith through numerological double reduction, you get ABRACA and DABRA
>"Abracadabra" is understood to roughly translate to "I create as I speak" in Aramaic/Hebrew (linking to the book's themes about "communication" systems)
>supposedly another interpretation or pronunciation of "abracadabra" could be "Edith and her tears"
>her tears/the *crying* of lot 49
>tristero; triste translating to "sad"
>https://www.gematrix.org/?word=oedipa
>Oedipa corresponds to "America" and "demon"
>https://www.gematrix.org/?word=49
>49 corresponds to "bad bad bad bad bad bad bad"
>Kinneret is the name of the town that Oedipa lives in
>it's also a Biblical town, which houses the Sea of Galilee
>the moon is described as having created the pacific ocean and its "depths", the ocean symbolizing the unknown that Oedipa wades in, and the moon symbolizing the entities that determine how that "ocean" reveals itself through its borders and contours and shorelines (Pynchon purposefully mentions only being able to "know" the Pacific Ocean by the borders it allows for us to see, during Oedipa's trip with Metzger and the band to see Inverarity's lake resort)
>that lake resort also holds real human bones, stored *underwater*
>Pynchon uses the phrase "odious array" to refer to Tristero
>odious array = dies irae: The Last Judgment
>Tristero could also be "tryst" "eros"
>desiring annihilation like the Scurvhamites
>Tristero used to use boneblack (like the human bones) vestments to hide themselves *in the night*
>Tristero also used to mimic Indians, who refused to fight at night (according to Pynchon), and worked singularly under the auspices of a solar "monad" system of belief
>Oedipa talks with a certain Mr. Thoth at the retirement home to hear stories about tristero
>Thoth is the egyptian god of writing, communication, and the moon
>Thoth stands for "the holiest of the holies", where the ark of the covenant (the "truly true *information*") was stored
>Pynchon mentions that the retirement home "feels like the sun is coming through every window"
>the "hallowed skein of stars" in the courier's tragedy could refer to America, through obvious symbolism
>at the start of the book Pynchon mentions Oedipa watching the sunrise (knowledge) from a uni library, except she wouldnt really see it, since the windows face west, so she can only see the hills
>but if she stood outside and faced east, the sunrise would be blocked by the building (the "establishment")
>the last scene of the book is Oedipa entering a sunblasted auction room, whose windows are completely shut once it begins

>>24496265
oh and I should mention Jesus walked on water (in Lot 49's symbolism, an act of transcending these unknowns) at the Sea of Galilee

>>24496265
oh and I should mention Jesus walked on water (in Lot 49's symbolism, an act of transcending these unknowns) at the Sea of Galilee
meanwhile, Driblette in the story killed himself by *walking into the sea and disappearing*

>>24496265
>>24496276
San Narciso, the town Oedipa ends up in to manage Inverarity's affairs, also alludes to St. Narcissus, who is the patron saint of vineyards. Dandelion wine appears in Lot 49, relevant because of its origins being derived from flowers that were supposedly fertilized by buried corpses of mob victims stored underground, which were now being excavated for the construction of roads and highways
St. Narcissus was also known for his miracles, such as turning water into oil, and good deeds like making sure every oil lamp in the church was lit.
An excerpt from Lot 49, when Oedipa meets the old dying *sailor* (who traversed the "waters" and used Tristero's communication system)
>In the little room were another suit, a couple of religious tracts, a rug, a chair. A picture of a saint, changing well-water to oil forJerusalem's Easter lamps. Another bulb, dead. The bed. The mattress, waiting.
Pynchon also mentions "flinders of luminescent gods", as in artificial light, hence the "dead bulb". Now that the sailor's been chewed up and spat out by his involvement with Tristero, all this "knowledge" has proven to be faulty and farcical, and has left him with nothing. Pynchon also mentions that the sailor will die by falling asleep with a cigarette in his hands, thus burning him to death. Inverarity was using those human bones to create filters for a brand of cigarettes, too.
>Cammed each night out of that safe
furrow the bulk of this city's waking each sunrise again set virtuously to plowing, what rich soils had he turned, what concentric
planets uncovered?
Contrasting the sailor's "dead bulb" is the real sunrise. Pynchon is saying what has the sailor gained from burrowing himself into such a space? What has been revealed to him, but abstractions and dead, false enlightenments, alienating him from everything else, now alone and consigned to die through insidious influences (the cigarettes)?

>>24495356
Jesus de Arrabal was good too

>>24483514
But Bleeding Edge was good

>>24494648
>Gravity is a shitpost
It's a lot more than that

>>24495530
Pmeister has at least ONE book for any serious reader.

My fav detail of real life having Pynchonesque names is the authoritarian dictator of Mexico named Purple Days.

>>24496265
>>24496326
Great posts, thanks. I realized a lot of this mystical or spiritual symbolism too but on a semiconscious level, didn’t connect it so deeply, besides some times when it jumped out blatantly like a “Mr. Thoth.” I wanna reread the book in this light now and see what I pick up. I’m amazed Pynchon trashed it in his intro to Slow Learner. If nothing else, the style is gorgeous, and it’s such a compact brilliant little book, the shortest of Pynchon’s novels but with so much crammed into it.

>>24498548
This, GR blew my mind and I hated everything I read by him b4 that

>>24498685
Pynchon's always been really hard on himself for some reason, he's actually quite critical about most of his work, iirc he even thought Gravity's Rainbow could've been handled better, and that most of the stories on Slow Learner were utter embarrassments (which is insane to me because even THEY blew me away like his longer work with just a handful of pages, especially Mortality and Mercy in Vienna). To call Lot 49 a "potboiler" is incomprehensible to me when it's so replete with substance and hidden meanings and nuances that only emerge on subsequent reads. I'd go so far as to say its his most outright Borgesian work, and he did Borges's style justice, and it really shows. And its pacing is nearly flawless, and scenes like Oedipa weeping at the Remedios Varos painting, or stranded near the railroad at the end are among the most potent and sublime moments in all of fiction.

>>24498723
my bad lol Mortality and Mercy in Vienna wasnt included in Slow Learner... but the point stands

>>24496265
>>24496276
>>24496326
>>24498685
By the way, I really like the posts again, but the only exception or part I’m unsure of is the gematria lol.
>https://www.gematrix.org/?word=oedipa
>Oedipa corresponds to "America" and "demon"
>https://www.gematrix.org/?word=49
>49 corresponds to "bad bad bad bad bad bad bad"
Although it is very interesting. And, on the other hand, Pynchon explicitly makes references to and shows knowledge of various forms of esotericism and the occult, or divinatory and magical practices, including (but not limited to) the Kabbalah, the Tarot, Freemasonry, astral projection, astrology, Spiritualism, and shamanic traditions. So it’s plausible there could be Gematria there, but I’m not sure of it. He’d have to be crunching it out manually of course, there was no Internet or gematria websites to play around with it. With his influences from Nabokov, sometimes including various “puzzles”, underlying plots or covert storylines or meanings to some of his works, it could match up with Pynchon doing Gematria. Like the famous acrostic of VN’s short story The Vane Sisters which reveals communication from the dead, and the similar case of Pale Fire, in one sense, being a “puzzle book” (but not only and exclusively that, or just limited to that, which would be reductive), with an underlying storyline that’s in a sense off-page but can be deduced from what’s in the pages.

I know there’s anagrams in his works, which is also a Nabokov thing, hence why I’m bringing up that influence because it makes it plausible. (Vivian Darkbloom = Vladimir Nabokov.) Don’t give me credit for this, I read it in some other piece of criticism or blog online. But, to move to GR, Tyrone Slothrop = “Entropy, or sloth”. You can tell it’s not a coincidence because of how entropy and sloth are some key motifs in Pynchon’s works. He wrote a whole essay on sloth for the NYT (“The Deadly Sins/Sloth; Nearer, My Couch, to Thee”), and of course the concept of entropy shows up as a major motif from CL49 to GR.

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/97/05/18/reviews/pynchon-sloth.html
He even mentions virtual reality in the end. 1993. Cool article if you’re a Pynchon fan. Although I maintain his style works way better in fiction than nonfiction, but it’s just cool to get a peak under the mask, have Pynchon speaking as himself.

>>24498723
Yep. Although I haven’t gotten to Slow Learner (for some reason I just read the intro online as a PDF, because I heard it was slightly more autobiographical and nudging beneath Pynchon’s mask a little, and it was indeed fun to read in that light), but now I’m interested in it too. “Your own worst critic” applies here. But I guess his high standards for himself are great for us, the dweeb-ass readers on 4chan.

Is Inherent Vice the best place to start pynchbros?

Also what do you guys think about his short stories?

>>24498876
>Although I maintain his style works way better in fiction than nonfiction, but it’s just cool to get a peak under the mask, have Pynchon speaking as himself.
I loved his Is It Ok to be a Luddite? article, so charming. And from the letters I've been able to find of his, especially the one ruminating on and lamenting Marilyn Monroe's fate, he comes off as considerably sensitive and tender, and truly wise beyond his years, especially with all the goofiness stripped back so you can get a better more sober read on him. Pynchon's work operates on such a level that I don't doubt he'd've worked out that Gematria stuff himself, it just feels way too coincidental. I mean Pynchon even invokes Maxwell's "Demon" as a component of the Nefastis Machine, and as we can see, no element in Lot 49 is without its symbolic/allusive purpose. He wouldve been working on Gravity's Rainbow simultaneously at the time so I feel messing around with Gematria wouldntve been out of the question for him.

>>24485461
LMAO. I love these kinds of posts.

>>24498876
also
>He even mentions virtual reality in the end. 1993.
Did you know he was a really big fan of Philip K Dick's work, even way back in the 60s? Explains a lot lol
>>24498900
If you're looking for a relatively low-stakes groovy adventure then yes (it's probably the best "Pynchon lite" book), but if you'd like to really sink your teeth in the schizocentric conspiracy allegory stuff, I recommend Lot 49 and V

>>24498941
>conspiracy allegory
That's the exact thing I'm not interested in, which of his works are like that?

>>24499151
Well all of his works have at least a little bit of the conspiracy stuff in them, but this especially true with V, Lot 49, GR and to a slightly lesser degree Against the Day

>>24499847
How about Vineland or Mason & Dixon ?

>>24500084
Mason & Dixon's "conspiratorial" elements are much more metaphysical in nature than any of his other works, the whole conceit with that book is primarily preoccupied with trying to make sense of what feels like intractable fate and the narratives we tell ourselves/each other that characterizes the people we are and the societies we live in. I think its a fantastic and fresh take on the "conspiracy" formula (though there are some traces of government talk with the East India Company and the Royal Astronomers Society in-fighting and politics, but its all minimal in comparison with the rest of his books). As for Vineland, most of the conspiracy talk is about the Reagan cabinet's operations, or factional clandestine organizations fighting over political sway. It's hardly even conspiratorial, since it all basically does exist, you just don't know how far it's able to spread its corrupting influences, hence the focus on the failures of the 60s revolutions.

>>24498900
i think The Crying of Lot 49 is a better place to start. It's short, and is a good example of the paranoid atmosphere he uses a lot more in Gravity's Rainbow.

>>24483449 (OP)
Please dont be a flop like Passanger / Stella Maris from Cormac was

>>24498941
>Did you know he was a really big fan of Philip K Dick's work, even way back in the 60s? Explains a lot lol
Oh yeah, and it does. They’re both incredible authors, it’d probably be fun and illuminating to read them in tandem. They were on similar wavelengths in many respects, Pynchon mogs as a stylist at his best though of course, but PKD is also great, and his prolific output & high-concept fiction are astounding.

Of all the novels of his I’ve read so far, Inherent Vice especially felt very PKDian to me at times. It had a similar framework of some underlying vast conspiracy being discovered or drawn into that totally collapses the protagonists’/reader’s sense of reality. (I mean, that’s CL49 and GR and most of his novels in each topic but the similarities continue.) There’s even a similar revelation as in A Scanner Darkly that’s a core part of both books — corrupt elements of the federal government/intelligence/law-enforcement end up being the ones majorly running and profiting off the drug trade, then even profiting from the rehab centers and/or jails, too, filled by such drug use. Also the whole investigation of spooks and narcs generally, the realization that there’s Feds hiding among the counterculture or hippies or drug-users of the time, or people corrupted to be informants among them. Conspiracies, paranoia, the tension between libertarianism vs. authoritarianism, freedom and repression.

Also, what do you think is up with the Nixon funny money in IV?

>>24500896
wtf is picrel trying to convey

>>24501615
The second one is from the Disney animated movie Mulan, based on some Chinese traditional story or folklore about a woman who pretends to be a man and disguises herself as such to join the Chinese army on an expedition, and it shows her getting herself recognized as such by some superior/companion in the army. But the joke in the meme is switching it to the man being (implicitly) gay and going, “Wow, I can’t believe it was a woman I was love with the whole time.”
The first one, I don’t know the exact source, but I can deduce/assume it’s from some YouTube video or comedic video or something, that just reverses the position and has some woman crying, thinking someone she knew was a woman but turned out to be a man. Thanks for reading my autistically detailed post.

https://youtu.be/PIqHNqg4mjY?si=51hgxImrDZn27THG

>>24501844
it doesnt make sense, the joke is that the mulan guy is disappointed in finding out that his twink crush is actually a woman, the inversion or repetition of that on the top picture doesnt work they fucked it up

>>24485460
Indeed. We should have just sealed the borders, executed anyone diagnosed with covid, the same way we should have dealt with aids. We need a new Caesar now.

>>24502167
Well, no. COVID had and still has a 98% survival rate. There was no reason to shut down or "seal" anything up. Those at risk could and probably should have shut themselves up inside, but the rest of the world should have continued on as it was. The risk just wasn't there.

>>24500896
Passenger/Stella Maris would be a great book for anyone other than Cormac to have written

>>24500896
Both of those were great books, pleb

>>24501564
Yeah I always felt like PKD's field was much more speculative and Pynchon much more 'literary' but that both operate predominantly with allegory and allusion in content and style alike, where you can feel this intense radiating pressure hover just out of sight, both done in their own distinctive styles and manners. They both had such a sharp vision and such incredible techniques to realize it, just boundless imaginative power.

>Also the whole investigation of spooks and narcs generally, the realization that there’s Feds hiding among the counterculture or hippies or drug-users of the time, or people corrupted to be informants among them. Conspiracies, paranoia, the tension between libertarianism vs. authoritarianism, freedom and repression.
Big central theme of Vineland too, which makes sense since 1/3rd of Vineland is essentially centered around the same "decadent post-revolution (as in post-infiltration) fallout" sphere that IV is dealing with. I feel like Pynchons comments on these kinds of movements after the 60s and 70s passed by must by necessity take on this mode of characterizing "conspiracy"; as in, not whether or not these malicious forces exist, but that they do exist, but we're mistaken in thinking that our corners and nooks and crannies are sacred and left untouched, and exploring the means by which these malicious forces are able to infest and corrupt these nooks. I feel Bleeding Edge does the same thing except it pivots away from the "counterculture" and instead emphasizes technology (as a conduit for control) and its influence over the episteme.

>Also, what do you think is up with the Nixon funny money in IV?
The mark of the beast. Quite literally "selling out" (selling your soul)

>>24502893
I dropped passenger like 50 pages in

Everybody should read his Luddite essay

>>24488701
the steampunk/chums of chance bits are like ten percent of the book at most. I'd say AtD is half straight-up western and half globetrotting WWI era adventure/romance.

What topic/era do you wish Pynchon wrote about?

>>24505909
I wish he wrote a book with a narrative jumping between the Salem Witch Trials and modern day cancel culture

>>24505909
I wish he wrote about something that actually happened.

>>24505909
Ecopunk cause I'm a fag

>>24505909
how zionists took over the american government and intelligence agencies.

>>24506217
or solarpunk or whatever the fuck they call that shit

>>24505909
the new testaments events retold through an average citizens perspective

>>24505909
>Color Climax Corporation ApS (CCC) was a Danish pornography producer headquartered in Copenhagen. It was founded in 1967[3] by the Theander brothers[4] and began with the publication of the porn magazine ColorClimax, despite pornography being illegal in Denmark until 1969.[5]
>Color Climax was the first to produce commercial child pornography films.[6] From 1969 to 1979, Color Climax was responsible for the relatively large-scale distribution of child pornography.[8][9] Danish laws on pornography had been totally repealed since 1969, only punishing with modest fines those making obscene material with children.[9][10]
>Between 1971 and 1979, the company produced 10-minute films for its Lolita series.[6][10][11] These films featured young girls, mainly with men, but sometimes with women or other children.[6][10][11] The girls were mainly between the ages of 7 and 11 years; however, some were younger.[6][10][11] These movies had titles such as Incest Family, Child Love and Pre-Teen Sex.[6][10]

>>24492439
Some people think he posted about Shakespeare and called someone a "buttmunch".

>>24494648
Not even remotely true. GR is more relevant to our time than to any time in the past. The entire novel is about man-made systems that have become humanly unfathomable uncontrollable. Every character in the novel is stripped of autonomy, dehumanised, and ultimately destroyed.

>>24506378
that nigga a munch desu