Injustice, at its core, is the absence or violation of justice. It's a broad and multifaceted concept that permeates various aspects of human existence, from individual interactions to systemic structures. At its heart, injustice represents a failure to uphold what is right, fair, and equitable.

The Soul and its Tripartite Nature: Plato believed the human being consists of a mortal body and an immortal soul. He further divided the soul into three parts:

Rational (Logistikon): Located in the head, responsible for reason, wisdom, and the pursuit of truth. This is the guiding part of the soul.

Spirited (Thymoeides): Located in the chest, representing emotions like courage, honor, and ambition.

Appetitive (Epithymetikon): Located in the belly, representing desires for food, drink, sex, and material possessions. Plato argued that a just and harmonious individual is one where the rational part of the soul governs the spirited and appetitive parts.

>>24486254 (OP)
Plato, witnessing the political turmoil and moral decay of his time, particularly the execution of his mentor Socrates, deeply concerned himself with the problem of injustice. His magnum opus, The Republic, is essentially an extended inquiry into what justice is and how to establish it, both in the individual and in the state.


Plato's solution to the problem of injustice is multifaceted and deeply intertwined with his metaphysics (Theory of Forms) and his political philosophy. Here's how he proposes to fix injustice:

The Pursuit of True Knowledge (Philosophy):

Virtue is Knowledge: For Plato, echoing Socrates, ignorance is the root of injustice. People act unjustly because they don't truly understand what is good for them or for society. If they knew what was truly good and just, they would naturally pursue it.

The Forms: True knowledge, for Plato, isn't about opinions or sensory experience, but about grasping the eternal, unchanging Forms, particularly the Form of the Good. This knowledge allows one to discern what is truly right and just, rather than what merely appears to be so or what serves self-interest.
Education: Therefore, a rigorous and lifelong education, culminating in the study of philosophy and dialectic, is crucial. This education aims to turn the soul away from the shadows of the sensible world towards the light of the Forms.

The Just Individual (Harmony of the Soul):

Plato believed that injustice in the state is a reflection of injustice in the individual soul. Just as a state can be disordered, so too can a soul.
Tripartite Soul: He divided the soul into three parts: Reason, Spirit, and Appetite.
Reason (Logistikon): Seeks wisdom and truth, should govern.
Spirit (Thymoeides): Driven by honor, courage, and ambition, should be an ally to reason.
Appetite (Epithymetikon): Desires physical pleasures and material possessions, should be controlled.

Internal Harmony: A just individual is one in whom Reason rules, with Spirit as its loyal helper, keeping the Appetites in check. When these parts are in their proper alignment and perform their natural functions, the individual achieves inner harmony and is truly just. Injustice, conversely, is when the appetites or spirit usurp the role of reason, leading to internal conflict and a disordered life.

>>24486254 (OP)
The Just State (The Ideal City/Kallipolis):

Plato believed that a just state would mirror the just individual soul, "writ large."
Three Classes: He envisioned an ideal society divided into three corresponding classes:
Philosopher-Kings (Rulers): These correspond to the rational part of the soul. They are individuals who have successfully completed the rigorous education, ascended to the knowledge of the Forms, and are thus best equipped to rule with wisdom and for the common good, not for personal gain. They rule by knowledge and reason.
Auxiliaries (Warriors/Guardians): These correspond to the spirited part of the soul. They are courageous and disciplined, responsible for defending the state and enforcing the laws made by the philosopher-kings.
Producers (Workers/Artisans): These correspond to the appetitive part of the soul. They are responsible for producing the material goods and services necessary for the state's survival.
Functional Specialization: Justice in the state, according to Plato, is achieved when each class performs its specific function diligently and does not meddle in the affairs of the other classes. This creates a harmonious, efficient, and stable society where everyone contributes according to their natural aptitude.

No Private Property for Guardians: To prevent corruption and self-interest among the ruling and auxiliary classes, Plato proposed that they should live communally, without private property or traditional family structures. This ensures their loyalty is solely to the state and the common good.
The Rule of Philosopher-Kings:

This is the most critical and distinctive element of Plato's solution. He famously states: "Until philosophers rule as kings, or those who are now called kings and leading men genuinely and adequately philosophize, that is, until political power and philosophy entirely coincide, cities will have no rest from evil... nor, I believe, will the human race."
Only those who possess true knowledge (the philosophers) are capable of understanding the Form of Justice itself and can therefore govern justly. They are motivated by wisdom and the good of the whole, not by wealth, honor, or popular opinion.

>>24486254 (OP)
In summary, Plato's solution to injustice is a radical call for a society ordered by reason and guided by true knowledge. It's a top-down approach where the wisest individuals, the philosopher-kings, lead a perfectly structured society, ensuring that each part (individual and class) fulfills its natural function, leading to a state of inner and external harmony and justice.

What is the point of this post? If we wanted to hear a slop summary of republic, we could have asked chatgpt ourselves.

>>24486317
What is the point of your existence?

>>24486319
To call OP a faggot.

>>24486325
Suck my dick bitch

>>24486254 (OP)

>>24486335
>call OP a faggot
>he tells me to suck his dick
Pottery

>>24486342
suck my big black cock

>>24486317
Because Talking about Injustice helps The planet earth

>>24486360
The only thing you're contributing to is the death of Plato threads on the board, nice work retard

>>24486374
it's quite the opposite

Chatgpt brainrot is pitiful

cool another AI generated plato and christmeme thread

>>24486254 (OP)

>wake up
>ask chatgpt for another plato thread idea
>never read plato
>"in conclusion: jesus"
>still brown

>>24486527

>>24486254 (OP)

>>24486254 (OP)

>>24486254 (OP)

>>24486254 (OP)

>>24486254 (OP)
>>24486304
>>24486309
1. If the classes cannot meddle in the affairs of others, but service to reason, spirit, and appetite can benefit all of them, isn't that weakening them? Should warriors not reason, workers have no courage, and philosophers refuse to work?

2. When applying the idea of reason governing the appetites to the real world, wouldn't we recognize that reason has succumbed to appetites though advertising, the scroll UI, pharmaceutical drugs, and hyperreal substitutes (video games and porn)? If the right way for personal and societal governance relies on reason as the master, and reason has been subordinated, does it not mean that the modern world is inherently unjust?

>>24487655
Plato's argument is that a just society is one where each class performs its specific function and does not "meddle in the affairs of others." This specialization, he believes, leads to efficiency, harmony, and overall societal well-being.

>>24487665
Wouldn't this deprive the classes of the virtues of the others?

>>24487685
Nope, Plato argues that a just society arises when each class fulfills its specific function and does not interfere with the functions of the others.

>>24486254 (OP)

>>24487697
Then I cannot agree with Plato. He would be shutting out the experience of greater achievement in other parts of life in order to get individuals to master one particular field. It would be the spiritual version of blinding one eye while trying to improve the vision of the other.

>>24487665
Terrible answer. Besides just popping the other anon's questions into cgpt for an answer, you (and cgpt, which just leans on what most people say about the Republic) don't know enough about the text to realize that justice in the city != justice in the individual soul; the former is a phantom of the latter (443b-444a), the harmony of the classes in the city doesn't guarantee the harmony in the souls of any of the members of those classes. Stop letting AI do your thinking for you, and start reading.

>>24487655
1) On the individual level, yes, because the explanation overall is "nature produces certain souls capable of different degrees of self-control". Justice in the soul turns out to only be accomplished by the philosopher, as the text stands (but that might not be the whole true story; Socrates alludes to how their discussion of the soul, among other subjects, is only a shortcut at 435c-d and 504b, so we can't just settle with what's presented as it stands).

2) Yes, but Plato would've said as much in his day; the cave allegory implies that the majority of opinions everywhere tend to be illusory, even when the shadow casters might share true images (because they'll mostly be understood as images, and not reasoned out). Even the just city will implicitly involve injustice, because the principle of civic justice, "one man, one art" is almost immediately broken in the development of the guardians and auxiliaries, who have to learn multiple arts to do what's expected of them.

>>24487655
>>24487719
To add to point 1, consider also the people present in the Republic; the only person besides Socrates who goes on to pursue philosophy is...Polemarchus (this is said about him in the Phaedrus). Glaucon, Adeimantus, and Thrasymachus are at best only capable of being auxiliaries, they will never philosophize, and Cephalus in his old age can only be one of the money-making artisans. The investigation into justice in the Republic is a filter meant to gatekeep those capable and incapable of philosophy.

>>24487719
>>24487734
So if I understand your answer to point 1., is that people have different skills they are capable of mastering, and instead of spending time on the things they cannot or refuse to master, they should just do what they are good at to their maximum capacity, as it lets them give back the most they can to society. If this is correct, then what about the spiritual fulfillment of that individual in Plato's perspective? If the artisan focuses on their specialty until they are better than everyone else at it, would they be more, or less satisfied with their life if they explored their own capacity for reason and passion? That Glaucon, Adeimantus, and Thrasymachus got to be a part of the dialogue shows that even those without the greatest talent can still benefit in some way from spiritual components outside their specialty.

To respond to your answer to 2., the consequence of the observation of a lack of rational governance in the world leads to the question of whether the modern world would have to be destroyed to achieve a reason-governed society. If it is the use of our social and physical/software technologies is the corrupter, then we can just change how we use them. But what if it is the technologies themselves that have this effect? If the latter is true, then it would reinforce my own view that reaction, conservatism, and rational-governance cannot exist as it is structurally in contradiction with the world as we know it. The only solution would be the Kaczynski option. If not that, then both temporal politics of the left and right are fake.

>>24487715
>Then I cannot agree with Plato. He would be shutting out the experience of greater achievement in other parts of life in order to get individuals to master one particular field. It would be the spiritual version of blinding one eye while trying to improve the vision of the other.

Virtues Are Still Present, Just Prioritized Differently: While each class is defined by a dominant virtue, Plato doesn't necessarily argue that other virtues are entirely absent. A warrior still needs some reason (for strategy) and temperance (to control impulses)

>>24487767
>So if I understand your answer to point 1., is that people have different skills they are capable of mastering, and instead of spending time on the things they cannot or refuse to master, they should just do what they are good at to their maximum capacity, as it lets them give back the most they can to society.
More or less, but with the true qualification that no one is a cobbler by nature.

>If this is correct, then what about the spiritual fulfillment of that individual in Plato's perspective? If the artisan focuses on their specialty until they are better than everyone else at it, would they be more, or less satisfied with their life if they explored their own capacity for reason and passion?
Well, eventually Adeimantus asks Socrates outright about the happiness of the guardians in book 4, and Socrates says "We’ll say that it wouldn’t be surprising if these men, as they are, are also happiest. However, in founding the city we are not looking to the exceptional happiness of any one group among us but, as far as possible, that of the city as a whole. We supposed we would find justice most in such a city, and injustice, in its tum, in the worst-governed one, and taking a careful look at them, we would judge what we’ve been seeking for so long. Now then, we suppose we’re fashioning the happy city – a whole city, not setting apart a happy few and putting them in it…” The "it wouldn't be surprising if..." bit doesn't guarantee the kind of happiness that Adeimantus has in mind, and the admission in general is open to the possibility that no one in the just city is perfectly happy, which is fine because the city is just a lab for discovering justice in the individual, and Socrates has to go out of his way in book 5 to tell Glaucon that this isn't about setting up an actual city. In book 9, Socrates tries to make the case for the happiness of the just man (= the philosopher), but you'd have to judge those arguments for yourself.

>That Glaucon, Adeimantus, and Thrasymachus got to be a part of the dialogue shows that even those without the greatest talent can still benefit in some way from spiritual components outside their specialty.
Sure, but what they get out of it is really just respect for philosophy, which they aren't capable of but see the importance of, and what, potentially we and, Socrates get from them are a plethora of opinions about the relationship between the just and the good to investigate.

For point 2, for Plato, it doesn't really matter, because A) there is no possibility for universal enlightenment, full stop, B) the only possibility of political life being fixed is by the improbable rule of a philosopher or philosophers, and that "fix" at the beginning of book 8 is acknowledged to be possibly short-lived, and C) point B is only true if the divided line and discussion of the the Good and the mathematical education hold to produce a philosopher who *has wisdom*, and that may be questionable *to Plato*.

>>24486254 (OP)
>justice in the city != justice in the individual soul
Wrong
Justice in the city is analogous to justice in the soul.
He constructs the ideal city to mirror the ideal soul, believing that:

>>24487846
Wrong, retard, being analagous means !=, and I pointed to a passage where Socrates says that civic justice isn't the real deal. Stop plugging posts into an cgpt, and start reading the actual damn books.

>>24487859
you are literally wrong here, retarded monkey

>>24487846
>"Isn't the cause of all this that, so far as ruling and being ruled are
concerned, **each of the parts IN HIM** minds its own business?"
>"That and nothing else is the cause:'
>"Are you still looking for justice to be **something different** from
this power which produces such men and cities?"
>"No, by Zeus," he said. "I'm not."
>"Then that dream of ours has reached its perfect fulfillment. I mean our saying that we suspected that straight from the beginning of
the city's founding, through some god, we probably hit upon **an origin
and model** for justice."
>"That's entirely certain."
>"And **this** [the justice of the classes in the city], Glaucon, turns out to be after all **a kind of phantom of
justice**--that's also why it's helpful--the fact that the shoemaker by nature
rightly practices shoemaking and does nothing else, and the carpenter
practices carpentry, and so on for the rest."
>"It looks like it."
>"But **in truth** justice was, as it seems, something of this sort;
however, **not with respect to a man's minding his external business, but
with respect to what is within**, with respect to what truly concerns him
and his own. He doesn't let each part in him mind other people's
business or the three classes in the soul meddle with each other,
but really sets his own house in good order and rules himself; he arranges himself, becomes his own friend, and harmonizes the three
parts, exactly like three notes in a harmonic scale, lowest, highest
and middle."

>>24486254 (OP)
>Injustice, at its core, is the absence or violation of justice. It's a broad and multifaceted concept that permeates various aspects of human existence, from individual interactions to systemic structures. At its heart, injustice represents a failure to uphold what is right, fair, and equitable

This is why the layman thinks plato is retarded. to the layman injustice and justice is a human concept to live, imho is more along the lines of stoicism. In accordance that you can only react and must control what you can. To create concepts that you cannot control is foolish. But would the concepts of justice and injustice overlap with Emotion? Yes

>>24487884
You didn't the book, retard.

>"Isn't the cause of all this that, so far as ruling and being ruled are concerned, **each of the parts IN HIM** minds its own business?"
>"That and nothing else is the cause:'
>"Are you still looking for justice to be **something different** from this power which produces such men and cities?"
>"No, by Zeus," he said. "I'm not."
>"Then that dream of ours has reached its perfect fulfillment. I mean our saying that we suspected that straight from the beginning of the city's founding, through some god, we probably hit upon **an origin and model** for justice."
>"That's entirely certain."
>"And **this** [the justice of the classes in the city], Glaucon, turns out to be after all **a kind of phantom of justice**--that's also why it's helpful--the fact that the shoemaker by nature rightly practices shoemaking and does nothing else, and the carpenter practices carpentry, and so on for the rest."
>"It looks like it."
>"But **in truth** justice was, as it seems, something of this sort; however, **not with respect to a man's minding his external business, but with respect to what is within**, with respect to what truly concerns him and his own. He doesn't let each part in him mind other people's business or the three classes in the soul meddle with each other, but really sets his own house in good order and rules himself; he arranges himself, becomes his own friend, and harmonizes the three parts, exactly like three notes in a harmonic scale, lowest, highest and middle."

>>24487896
you are unable to comprehend the ideas retard

>>24487921
Cope and seethe, brownoid, Plato has Socrates say outright that the justice of the city is a phantom of true justice, which is of the soul.

>>24487924
i hate his metaphysics so much dude

>>24487924
wrong

>>24488077
>**this** [the justice of the classes in the city], Glaucon, turns out to be after all **a kind of phantom of justice**
>"But **in truth** justice was, as it seems, something of this sort; however, **not with respect to a man's minding his external business, but with respect to what is within**
Cope

>>24488092
>24488092
Seethe more bitch

>>24488111
I'm not the one seething over what the text of the Republic actually says, maybe you should read it instead of AI summaries

>>24488116
you got all the wrong ideas reading it

>>24488128
I'm literally quoting from it where Socrates says the class system is only a phantom of true justice. Meanwhile, you've never read it. Any of it.

>>24487859
>analagous means !=
The statement "analogous means !=" is fundamentally incorrect, what a fucking retard

>>24488153
Analagous means by analogy, which doesn't mean it's the same, you brown illiterate. The justice of the city is a *model* for the justice of the soul, it's not the same.

>>24488166
you are so naive, your statments is fundamentally flawed, angry beast
get fucked

>>24488092
>plato implied everyone is an NPC
if justice of the city relates to justice of the soul to some aspect that implies most people cannot think for themselves
the fucking greeks thought of all the thought experimenta before us.
>everyone is an npc but me
>the shopping cart theory

>>24488194
Look around you

>>24488194
Kind of, something like the NPC meme seems original today really only because egalitarianism has been so predominant.

>>24488184
>>24488197
Lol look at this seething brownoid who can't read

>>24488205
It is not a meme you are npc yourself, can't read and shit

>>24488220
I can put a quote of the Republic in front of you and you literally don't know what to do with it without cgpt helping you.

>>24488205
I think putting a twist of carl jungs collective unconcious theory in relation to this would make more sense and make it a more complete philosphical theory on the soul. Many people find themselves having intrusive thoughts or having empathetical and sympathetic thoughts for an individual only to turn and say "wait that's retarded" or "wait that's retarded why would i feel like that"
It would also be a good tie in to why so many people nowadays are depressed with the world around them but then do literally nothing to try and make it better.

one person feels like that another is also bound too as well.

>>24488223
chatgput is much better than brainless npc like yourself

>>24488225
I think the cave analogy is as close as Plato gets to giving us something like that. But the other element of that explanation is natural differences. Some people *only* get by as long as they have myths and some kind of authoritative opinions to latch on to. Hence why Plato includes so many myths, images, and analogies that aim to be beneficial through moderation in his writings, and he can dependably rely on most readers forgetting that there might be defenses of telling falsehoods in the same text.

>>24488228
>being an npc is better than being an npc
Lmao, your brain is cooked

>>24488255
you are fundamentally retarded

>>24488265
>doesn't know how to read a whole book
>only reads bitesized AI summaries
>can't talk about any of an author's ideas on their own without using AI
Pretty confident I'm not the retard in this thread.

>>24488273
fundamentally incorrect statements and unable to compete

>>24488277
You're still seething over not knowing what Plato actually wrote about justice in the city lol

>>24487803
>For point 2, for Plato, it doesn't really matter, because A) there is no possibility for universal enlightenment, full stop, B) the only possibility of political life being fixed is by the improbable rule of a philosopher or philosophers, and that "fix" at the beginning of book 8 is acknowledged to be possibly short-lived, and C) point B is only true if the divided line and discussion of the the Good and the mathematical education hold to produce a philosopher who *has wisdom*, and that may be questionable *to Plato*.

The success of the philosopher-king depends entirely on the rigorous educational program, and there's a subtle but arguable point that Plato himself might have recognized the immense difficulty, if not near impossibility, of consistently producing truly wise rulers or sustaining the ideal state.

>>24488265
you argue like a college freshman in a creative writing class that took the professors "Critical criticism" instruction too seriously.
>this is bad!
>why?
>because it just is ok!
and then half of those students drop out to serve me a salad at a fast food chain because their gpa is 1.0

>>24488327
The statement "analogous means !=" is fundamentally incorrect

>>24488306
Yes, you grasp the problem well.

>>24488332
"!=" means "isn't the same as" you retard, which is exactly what Socrates says, "in truth justice was, as it seems, **something of this sort** [i.e., the civic kind]; however, **not with respect to a man's minding his external business**, but with respect to what is within", they're not the same, he literally calls it a phantom of true justice. The harmony of the soul != the harmony of the city.

>>24488342
>The harmony of the soul != the harmony of the city.

Harmony and Justice: For both the soul and the city, harmony is achieved when each part performs its proper function without meddling in the others, and when the rational/ruling element correctly governs the others. This state of harmony is what Plato defines as justice.

>>24488348
>"**This** [the justice of the classes in the city], Glaucon, turns out to be after all **a kind of phantom of justice**"

>>24488353
What do you really mean

>>24488356
There's no reality to civic justice, it's just a useful fiction for understanding the true justice of the soul.

>>24488360
you got yourself irrefutable this time bitch, next time say stuff that makes sense

>>24488373
Or you could, I dunno, learn to read English if you're gonna argue on an English-centered forum

this thread just proves the retarded jeet making plato chatgpt threads doesn't actually read plato.

>>24488380
I think we already knew that, but it's hilarious to see how bad his comprehension is

>>24488380
>>24488389
low IQ midwits

>>24488437
You have trouble reading basic English, lmao, back to the call center for you

>>24486254 (OP)
>while I was in the cave we would play a game where we tried to guess the next shape that would make it's way onto the wall.

>years of staring at shadow effigies left at least one person with a good guess.

>the one who guessed best became a sort of master of prisoners.

>when you leave the cave and become enlightened you have a duty to return and try to enlighten the others.

>they never want to hear it.

>once Yun-men was addressing an assembly and said 'I'm not asking about the days that came before the 15th but I'm asking about the days that come after. I beseech all of you to tell me about those days!'

>before anyone could respond he answered himself and said 'Every day is a good day.'

>>24488450
Keep seething bitch, Throwing bad arguments won't serve you

>>24488478
You'd have to know how to read basic English to know whether I made a bad argument, which you don't: >>24488373

Try again benchod, Pakistan has better missles than you, lol lmao.

>>24488507
>>24488153

>>24488531
Exactly, you don't know what that simple sentence means, back to streetshitting for you

>>24488437
keep up the bot replies jeet

>>24488539
illiterate low iq monkey

>>24488558
>a brown dependant on chatgpt accusing someone of being an illiterate monkey

>>24488564
you are seething too much, smoke

This you, OP?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UF0F3x8GdmU

>>24488567
Says you, lmao

>>24488571
That was so funny, Bitch

Alright Litizens, as long as room 1 is vacant there's plenty of other rooms to get but this has to be done sequentially. It's a grand fucking hotel after all.

>>24486254 (OP)