>if they had the power they would do the exact same shit to us, probably worse

“The work of the colonist is to make even dreams of liberty impossible for the colonized. The work of the colonized is to imagine every possible method for annihilating the colonist. On the logical plane, the Manichaeanism of the colonist produces a Manichaeanism of the colonized. The theory of the "absolute evil of the colonist" is in response to the theory of the "absolute evil of the native." The arrival of the colonist signified syncretically the death of indigenous society, cultural lethargy, and petrifaction of the individual. For the colonized, life can only materialize from the rotting cadaver of the colonist. Such then is the term-for-term correspondence between the two arguments”

“Decolonization is the encounter between two congenitally antagonistic forces that in fact owe their singularity to the kind of reification secreted and nurtured by the colonial situation. Their first confrontation was colored by violence and their cohabitation - or rather the exploitation of the colonized by the colonizer — continued at the point of the bayonet and under cannon fire. The colonist and the colonized are old acquaintances. And consequently, the colonist is right when he says he "knows" them. It is the colonist who fabricated and continues to fabricate the colonized subject.”

So basically what I’m saying is death to America

>>24486472 (OP)
They're sore losers. Treat them how you would a child having a temper tantrum because he lost a soccer game.

i find this shit so lame, just say you hate other ethnicities and leave it at that, you don't need to dress up your hatred in philosophical word salad. it's so dishonest. i can't respect it. fanon's hatred of white people began with the awareness that he would never belong among them, and so he felt that he wasn't an equal. in theory, he wanted to be an equal, which is why he was filled with so much hatred. but in what manner does he hate? does he hate like an equal? no. he cannot even say "i hate the french because they called me the n word". he needs to dress it up in this messianic exceptionalist word salad. because he knows that, if he had to be honest about the situation, a situation of pure human will, he would not be able to permit himself to hate and fight against other people. he needs some kind of great justification that makes him and only him correct in hating and loathing and wanting to kill. he wants to have his cake and eat it too, to be a vicious, bloodthirsty chud, but at the same time a saint, free of every sin, liberator of mankind.
i can't respect it. i can't respect it.

>>24486568
The greentext was in reference to the U.S bombing of Iran and other associated atrocities, not an endorsement of the idea that might makes right, which you might have understood if you had an attention span

>>24486630
You understand that it’s whitey saying all the violence and theft and destruction he does is justified? And trying to paper over it with bullshit about civilization and God and humanitarian ideals? And then Fanon releasing this banger to say whitey will get what’s coming to him and he has no one to blame but himself? Very simple “you reap what you sow” messaging. It’s causing disgust in you because you know that you are an oppressor who benefits from oppression and have to revert to pseudo-nietzschean babble about “ohhh morals are for the weak he just hates for no reason” even though you’ve internalized an infinite amount of ideology that inherently makes everything you think and do have some kind of moral backdrop, in this case “niggers scare me”

>>24486725
Don't care. You're retarded. >>>/pol/

>>24486750
agree.
OP, take the hitler poster and FO to /pol together

>>24486750
>>24486759
>noooooo I don’t want to engage with ideas or reality unless they’re from 300 years ago and entirely irrelevant to anything happening politics politics politics!

>>24486568
you shouldn't be throwing a tantrum then whenever their behaviour suspect, right, mature adult anon that you are?

>>24486568
you shouldn't be throwing a tantrum then whenever their behaviour is suspect, right, mature adult anon that you are?

>>24486725
>>24486750
Yikes, yt btfo yet again

>>24486770
"Death to America," isn't really an honest intellectual conversation starter is it?

If I wanted to engage in /pol discussions on contemporary politics, I'd be over there. These thinly disguised bait posts are just shitting up /lit.

>>24486793
Practice some close reading

>Why did the author say “death” to America?

>Why is it America and not some other country?

>Who does the author think will bring death to America?

>Why does the author want death to America?

>How does the phrase “death to America” relate to the except? Cite at least two pieces of evidence from the text

>>24486793
Oh I get it.

Try some close reading of your own.

>Where did the reply suggest you take your off-topic spam shit to?

>>24486472 (OP)
Isn't this philosophy basically just being a blackcel?

>>24486802
Envy for all of the both or because he's a pinko.

>>24486802
Oops, meant >>24486831 to reply to you.

Anyway, shouldn't you be getting your old clothes out of the closet?

>>24486844
Not really, this is the intro where he’s setting the backdrop by describing the beginning of colonization. He says violence allows the colonized subject to realize their autonomy and make a man out of themselves, and is a creative/productive act. Then there’s a whole post-colonization section where he complains about African leaders being corrupt and wanting to be honkies. But If you read the whole book it’s got hopium at the end where he suggests African/Arab/post-colonial countries stop trying to imitate Europe cuz obviously they’ve seen how that works out and maybe they can do something else that doesn’t suck ass

>>24486863
Political philosophers are completely useless losers

>>24486844
Yes

>>24486781
>no you
No you.

>>24486878
Not necessarily

>>24486863
But hasn't "Africans being Africans" led pretty much nowhere?

>>24486905
>But hasn't "Africans being Africans" led pretty much nowhere?
why do you think it should lead anywhere? Hasn't being european/american led nowhere as well, low birth rates, moral decay, low economic growth, growing irrelevance

>>24486912
Why not? Do you expect people to just fall back on vice? Then you're no better than Epicurus.

>>24486725
>have to revert to pseudo-nietzschean babble about “ohhh morals are for the weak he just hates for no reason”
at no point did i make such an argument. i don't believe in conventional morality, but that doesn't mean i reject all morality. at the very least, i can say that mass slaughter is ugly and disgusting, and the attitude fanon takes towards it even more so.
as for the hypocritical shit about civilization, that disgusts me too. when i see a jingoist dog barking about fighting for civilization, it makes me puke. the hypocrisy of the one does not excuse the hypocrisy of the other. ultimately, we are talking about petty, puny, bitter, vicious little souls who want to hurt others in the name of various empty ideals that act as a cover up for base envy and greed.

>>24486844
Nah, the real blackcel ideology is afropessimism

>>24486905
>But hasn't "Africans being Africans" led pretty much nowhere?
Africans being Africans got interrupted by Europeans being Europeans and now the whole world is enveloped in capitalist extraction hell that’s created sweeping inequality and destruction and bloodshed. The task now is for African governments to stop trying to mimic European ones and opt for an alternative, which we can infer to be socialism given fanon’s other beliefs
>>24486934
>the hypocrisy of the one does not excuse the hypocrisy of the other
This is the philosophy of children and cowards and victims. Violence is not invariably evil, the violence of the oppressor is not the same as the violence of the oppressed. The violence of the slave used to break his chains is not the same as the violence of the slave master. We do not live in a perfect world, this holier than thou fence sitting is the favorite pastime of every impotent liberal who watches indifferently but “with prayers” as fascists kill and steal and consolidate power
Also
>base envy and greed
Projection by whitey onto his victims to justify all manner of atrocities and deprivation of rights, whether or not you mean for it to be. There are a lot of realities you are ignoring by starting from 0 and then doing some categorical imperative bullshit - “now that the world is rigged in my favor you need to get over it and let there be peace” (read: accept permanent subjugation and exploitation)

>>24489171
>“now that the world is rigged in my favor you need to get over it and let there be peace” (read: accept permanent subjugation and exploitation)
1. i didn't say anything like this
2. the world isn't rigger in MY favor
this is exactly why i said the motivations are base envy and greed. many among the fortunate whites choose to sit on their wealth and be exploiters and hypocrites, speaking of high ideals but really being motivated only by greed. and it's the same for you, who speak of justice but really use it only to cover up your malice.
if there is injustice, then let it be rectified. sometimes, this process itself can be ugly or even violent. but to relish violence, to celebrate violence, to salivate at the thought of bloodshed, to pat oneself on the back for being a killer - that is not justice. that is the basest greed, envy, malice. it is ugly and repulsive no matter whether it is seen in a master or in a slave. this is what i can't respect - people who say they fight for justice but can neither fight nor kill without whipping themselves into a bloodthirsty and self-righteous frenzy. even if "white devils" really are such - what about you? don't you have ethical standards that you want to live up to? the answer, generally, is no. because most people have no self-respect, and don't think about their own lives for a second. and that's why i don't respect them either.
also don't take your ideology from Said, orientalism is an incoherent book. it's a book on history and philosophy written by a literature major. the consequences are predictable.

>this thread
You just came so close to a Freudian slip with "rigger", just now.

>>24486472 (OP)
didn't this guy claim that women are only racist because they secretly want to be fucked by africans

>>24489171
>stop trying to mimic European ones and opt for an alternative, which we can infer to be socialism given fanon’s other beliefs
socialism was invented in europe, and its failed pretty much everywhere except Scandinavia, which has vast amounts of oil wealth & homogenous well behaved citizens

>>24489900

Gavin McInnes made precisely this observation when debating/being interviewed by a typical feminist leftist type. The clip has the usual annoying music and editing, but the point stands.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2ol_PorVHe4

>>24489171
I dunno maybe stop being a victim?

>>24489900
>>24491481
Yeah but at the same time, those countries are setting up their own suicide. So I dunno.

>>24491487

When reading initially, I thought to correct the other poster's assertion from "has" to "had".

>>24486568
You cope and seeth when seeing a Mexican or a Muslim in western countries, sore loser

>>24488281
>Nah, the real blackcel ideology is afropessimism
Yeah. The thing about Fanon is that he was anti-colonialist but also anti-traditionalist because of internal reactionary traditions of tribal chiefs and feudal lords. That's very 1960s, Marxist-influenced stuff. Afropessimism emerged later in the 1980s and today has really fed into these Sahelian juntas if someone wants a practical example. The ideology is very un-self-critical and basically the West (in their case France in particular) is just ontologically bad and hates black people almost down to the level of their DNA, and the West is to blame for all the problems. It can sound rebellious (and it is, in a way) and Western leftists will go gaga over these guys because they shit on the West and try to LARP like Thomas Sankara but it's not the same thing.

I don't know what Fanon would think about them, but the idea of being ruled by some jumped-up paratroopers is basically a modernized version of rule by traditional military chiefs which is a tradition that predated French colonialism and is deeply rooted.

>>24486472 (OP)
holy based alert

I have a problem with this type of philosophy, and not really due to its content per se, but more so its method and relationship to meaning. I’ve noticed it’s very common for philosophy which purports to address structural issues of race or gender to operate in this somewhat loose and vague kind of “phenomenology” territory where the author makes general declarations about the causal relationship of different structural groups, usually with psychological language and playing with the idea that causal relationships of social groups are subconscious but universal (“white people are all subconsciously racist”). For example, it is very hard to analyze the truth condition of a statement like:
>The work of the colonist is to make even dreams of liberty impossible for the colonized
Because both the modality and domain of reference it’s operating in is very ambiguous. Is this necessarily true? And of all colonists? Is this literally the conscious intention of all colonists of a kind of subconscious drive? If so what evidence is there of it, and how can it be verified? Maybe my problem is I’m taking this out of the larger context of the work but I always find this kind of philosophizing highly unsatisfying.

>Decolonization is the encounter between two congenitally antagonistic forces that in fact owe their singularity to the kind of reification secreted and nurtured by the colonial situation.
This sentence seems to make sense, but yet again it has a level of ambiguous meaning which feels deeply unsatisfying to me. In what way can the colonist be said to literally “fabricate the colonist”? What is Fanon’s view of the reality of such universals as colonized and colonist? What kind of being do these forces have? I am not a positivist by any means but it is philosophy like this that always makes me see the pressing desire people have had throughout the ages to attempt to establish definite criteria for the boundaries of meaningful philosophizing versus nonsense.

It all feels very paradoxical. A lot of this kind of leftist theory purports to be tied to changing the world and observing empirical data but then typically generalizes over potentially heterogeneous empirical groups with psychological universalizations.

>>24493881
Welcome to philosophies of ressentiment (which aren't even exclusively left-wing), where arguments are justified by "lived experience" and unfalsifiable mental gymnastics. For instance, a lot of post-colonial theorists would probably accuse your critique of implicitly upholding Western epistemological paradigms, and thus you're actually an unintentional (if they'll grant you even that level of grace) agent of Western hegemony. It's all pseudo-philosophy that probably has Marx rolling in his grave (I don't even like Marx, but he was at least more coherent than Fanon and co).

>>24495603
is fanon the guy with the cia handler?

oh ya it was this guy:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/207475986/charles-oliver-iselin

>>24493881
>Is this necessarily true? And of all colonists? Is this literally the conscious intention of all colonists of a kind of subconscious drive? If so what evidence is there of it, and how can it be verified?
if we're being charitable we could say that it's not necessary for all to do it, but it IS necessary for the system to continue, although i agree that i don't like this kind of obvious overreach either (although it is by no means exclusive to the left)
>In what way can the colonist be said to literally “fabricate the colonist”?
this one's much easier because we have a clear example: amerindians
prior to the arrival of europeans, different communities considered themselves their own thing and a mexica was clearly different from a mayan, inside each respective group there were more differences yet, but with the arrival of the spanish there was suddenly an opposition between between native americans and europeans that created in the minds of both a new category: the indio, contrary to the yuro
that's why aymara and quechua offer solidarity to each other today and march together when in the past they would've fought each other, because now they're all in it together and share a kind, that's what was fabricated

>>24495708
>>24493881
Fanon has a point in that the colonist, by engaging in colonialism, creates the colonized. Down to what this anon said, actually changing the map and leveling ethnic conflicts and subdivisions by force, but also every trope associated with the colonized is only a product of the colonist colonizing them. It's similar to foucaults idea of power knowledge, that the action of invoking power creates an attendant system of knowledge that's not necessarily true, but is the epistemology of the power subject. Their perception.

I don't think Fanon is wrong about a lot of stuff, but with guys like this, white and black, there's a lot of talking. I think Fanon was there, talking, while other men fought in the Algiers if I remember it.
He wanted to say, "I was there." Writers are writers for a reason.

>>24486725
two incredible strawmans holy fuck

>>24486844
Yeah, every time you see blacks on politics, economy, sociology etc... It's because they can't get pussy, that's also the reason why most of them incite others to commit violence, because they themselves are way too cowardly to ever get their hands dirty

"muh bussy moist" - Fanon, probably

>>24486472 (OP)
Colonialism was the White Man's gift to the lesser races.
Change my mind.