Thread 24489206 - /lit/ [Archived: 724 hours ago]

Anonymous
6/23/2025, 7:24:11 AM No.24489206
ted_hughes_square
ted_hughes_square
md5: ebadf1edd22cfa8fa56eb493fa8a8def🔍
>I've been fuckin' hoes and poppin' pillies
>Man, I feel just like a rockstar
Was Ted Hughes the last culturally relevant poet?
Replies: >>24489217 >>24489251 >>24489289 >>24489331 >>24489342 >>24492802 >>24494123 >>24494293
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 7:37:14 AM No.24489217
>>24489206 (OP)
You answered your own question
Rappers are poets -- more so than all the fake poets who get fake awards and MFAs
The essential thing to poetry is rhythmic speech--what Rimbaud sought Rhythm of Action -- and that it be memorable
Rap strives to achieve this -- unlike almost all so-called poetry today
Of course there's a great range in quality
The best rapper is Future (though the autotune puts this more in the realm of music)
Kanye, despite being considered a less technically gifted performer, is more of a poet than anyone because he has the most memorable lines (in a sense he's better at advertising, see even recently with his Neo-Nazi anthem)
Replies: >>24489222 >>24492832 >>24492941
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 7:41:07 AM No.24489222
1703036377288922
1703036377288922
md5: 9dd85992fd0ce1eacb249cf0a01523ff🔍
>>24489217
When people start comparing rap, a pseudo-improvisational attempt to keep up with a simple 4/4 beat and impress the audience by bragging about their lives, to poetry, like capital P Poetry, I have to question whether they've actually read poetry on a serious level.

Like, could Coates read Yeats's "He wishes for the Cloths of Heaven" and pick up on how Yeats deliberately contrasts his first quatrain's dactylic beat with the second quatrain's anapestic metre to emphasise his narrator's bitter humility and better contradict his fantasies? Does he understand the sheer amount of effort, skill, and intelligence it takes to consciously manipulate the rhythm not of a sentence or a phrase, but of the very way each and every syllable itself is pronounced and arranged in order to represent a complex and emotional idea? To do this while maintaining a coherent grammatical and original rhyming structure AND while delivering a series of stunning images that range from religious ecstasy to poverty and psychological turmoil? To then subtly contradict this established structure in order to draw attention to yet another complex idea?

This isn't just a spread of internal rhymes, puns, and catchy slang; this is a man loading no more than eight lines with as much content as the English language allows.

Illmatic is a good album. Nas is a talented rapper. But to say that a 16 year-old kid from the projects operates at the level of a Nobel Prize-winning poet is absolute horseshit. No he fucking does not; he wrote his lyrics according to some DJ Premier beat and his own public image. You want to judge his writing as poetry? You want to look at his words when they're neutered from the music and live audience they were written to accompany? Okay, let's look. There is no coherent metre, let alone any conscious metrical technique. His rhyme scheme is all over the fucking place, and a lot of phrases were awkwardly forced in just to hit those incredibly simple end rhymes. The narrative is sloppy and its images are repetitive; he abandons ideas halfway through simply to survive until the next line. He brags about himself constantly and fills his story with non sequiturs that serve no purpose other than to highlight his knowledge of street slang and demonstrate how violent his life is.

As poetry, it's kind of trash. It's not very creative. It's definitely not skillful. It should be performed over music and never ever separated from it.
Replies: >>24489237 >>24490263 >>24492358 >>24492802 >>24492835
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 7:54:47 AM No.24489237
>>24489222
You don't understand what poetry is. Poetry is spontaneous and popular. Anybody can write a poem. I have records of my great grandmothers writing poems.
"Poetry" obviously can be defined in many ways--such as Ruskin saying "anything nobly expressed", or it would be seen as equivalent to Seer or Prophet...
Poetry is not equivalent with High Art -- though all high art is "poetry"
Poetry can be simple and straightforward
"pseudo-improvisational" -- improvisation is the essence of art; Wagner used this term to describe the greatness of Aeschylus and Shakespeare
>But to say that a 16 year-old kid from the projects operates at the level of a Nobel Prize-winning poet is absolute horseshit
The people who receive Nobels and Pulitzers or Deliver Inaugural poems are horseshit, and rap comes much closer to what poetry actually is--memorable rhythmic speech
Rap also contains intensities since it is violent and captures the vortex of the cultural moment
I hope you just chat-GTPed that rather than wasting your time writing all that
Replies: >>24489245 >>24490263
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 7:59:19 AM No.24489245
20140707_174243
20140707_174243
md5: be0101bce973ccaaccd3ae76268ac6e3🔍
>>24489237
>poetry is spontaneous
>poetry is what's popular
>poetry is anything by anyone
>poetry is my grandma
>poetry is what is nobly expressed
>poetry is not high art
>poetry is all high art
>poetry is simple and straightforward
>poetry is something something unrelated wanger quote
>poetry is not something that won a nobel prize
>poetry is close to what rap is
>poetry is memorable rhythmic speech
So what did we learn?
Replies: >>24489263 >>24490263 >>24492277
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 8:01:41 AM No.24489251
>>24489206 (OP)
>Was Ted Hughes the last culturally relevant poet?
He kept his woman in the kitchen.
Replies: >>24489332
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 8:07:34 AM No.24489263
>>24489245
You lack a subtile mind
Nas is more of a poet than Seamus Heaney or any other of the modern "poet" frauds.
Replies: >>24489272
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 8:09:43 AM No.24489269
But please give us your own definition of poetry which I imagine is "Makes me feel smart and superior"
Rhythm is the key. Frauds like Heaney and the whole tribe of pompous bores lack it
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 8:11:59 AM No.24489272
>>24489263
lmao
Replies: >>24489277
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 8:15:24 AM No.24489277
>>24489272
nervous laugh lol
Go read you deeply deep poets and have some profound profundities tonight for me, good sir
Replies: >>24489278
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 8:17:28 AM No.24489278
>>24489277
I know you're baiting because no one is that retarded and tasteless.
Replies: >>24489285
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 8:22:28 AM No.24489285
>>24489278
I don't know what you're talking about. I read French and latin and Italian and German poetry in the original. My favorite poets are Ezra Pound, Rimbaud, and Milton. I also like rap music. I have a broad sensibility that makes people like you seem like little children, petulantly whining about muh real poetry!
A taste for high culture really does not disqualify one from a taste for the so called "low" -- and in rap you often witness fragments of formal brilliance, achieved as though by accident, which ascend to a higher realm ;)
Happy reading ;)
Replies: >>24489294
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 8:25:08 AM No.24489289
>>24489206 (OP)
If you need to brag about having sex, you're only relevant in the streets
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 8:29:15 AM No.24489294
>>24489285
Ah, you're dedicated to the bit. I like that. But in no universe is Nas a better poet than Heaney. Good joke, though.
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 8:47:26 AM No.24489329
post_hughes
post_hughes
md5: 420096cc67a027a68b255d0785ded575🔍
>I’ve rutted and fed on the bright dust of gods —
>Now I blaze like a rock flung from the sun.

I like this thread. Interesting discussion going on. And to answer your question OP: yes, unless one wants to count heaney or larkin.
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 8:51:03 AM No.24489331
>>24489206 (OP)
Ted Hughes was such a chad, it's insane. Two women killed themselves for him. Crazy.
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 8:52:14 AM No.24489332
>>24489251
He liked his women like he liked his steak.
Replies: >>24489337
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 8:54:17 AM No.24489337
>>24489332
>He liked his women like he liked his steak.
Gassed and fucked from behind?
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 8:58:28 AM No.24489342
>>24489206 (OP)
Remember that anecdote when his wife and his lover accidentally met in a park or something and they started fighting in front of a picnic with grandmas and Ted was all like "Ladies, ladies, don't fight, you're both pretty" and then he went home with both to "talk" but instead fucked them that same day. That guy needs to be studied.
Replies: >>24489499 >>24490075 >>24494549
Anonymouṡ
6/23/2025, 11:19:38 AM No.24489499
>>24489342
>you're both pretty
The trouble is they were both insecure:
Sylvia was insecure because Assia was much prettier than her.
Assia was insecure because Sylvia was a much better poet than her.

>fighting
In a physical altercation my money would be on Sylvia I think, assuming they were both in tip-top condition (i.e. not pregnant or anything). But Assia probably knew some dirty jewish tricks so maybe it would have been close.
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 4:38:54 PM No.24489915
>culturally relevant
Culture doesn’t work like that anymore, in any field. There’s too much fragmentation. There won’t be another Beatlemania because the monoculture necessary for something like that doesn’t exist anymore, even if the music is better.
But Anne Carson is probably the one, in terms of her influence over the current generation of writers. But she’ll never be on the level of Hughes or Larkin where a man on the street might have heard of them and even recognise their style
Replies: >>24490199
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 5:48:40 PM No.24490075
>>24489342
Holy shit I haven‘t laughed this hard in months. What a fucking hero.
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 6:54:09 PM No.24490199
>>24489915
yea, this is accurate. culture is atomized.
Replies: >>24490391
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 7:19:38 PM No.24490263
>>24489222
>>24489237
>>24489245
Both of you are infected by the virus of "this is better than..." Who cares?
Why does something have to be 'better' than anything?
I swear... Who invented this way of thinking?
Replies: >>24491264 >>24492270 >>24492829
Anonymous
6/23/2025, 8:07:51 PM No.24490391
>>24490199
I read Mailer’s Armies of the Night recently. One detail that struck me was that not only was Mailer himself famous enough as a writer to considered a ‘notable’ and thus at the front of the protest so the media would get footage of him being arrested, but so was Robert Lowell, and it’s clear that Lowell was in fact the bigger fish in terms of name recognition (much to the chagrin of Mailer of course).
Just astonished me that a poet could have that kind of status
Anonymous
6/24/2025, 1:34:04 AM No.24491210
bump
Anonymous
6/24/2025, 1:59:41 AM No.24491264
>>24490263
you sire, are a true philosophical hero! I salute you! I wish we were in a frothy debate in a roman forum in the BC years, because then I would come up to you and kiss you on the mouth for just speaking this wonderful thought!
My my, you truly have made my day sir, I will be chuckling about this for many hours hence i fear. Godspeed! and Godacceleration to you laddy - boy! Good day!
Replies: >>24492254
Anonymous
6/24/2025, 12:15:43 PM No.24492254
>>24491264
End thy sorrow with thine own hand
Anonymous
6/24/2025, 12:48:41 PM No.24492270
>>24490263
In my experience autists love to do it.
Anonymous
6/24/2025, 12:54:55 PM No.24492277
>>24489245
very bleak looking steak tartare
Anonymous
6/24/2025, 2:02:03 PM No.24492358
>>24489222
>pseudo-improvisational attempt to keep up with a simple 4/4 beat and impress the audience by bragging about their lives
Anon that is quintessential capital P Poetry.

>how Yeats deliberately contrasts his first quatrain's dactylic beat with the second quatrain's anapestic metre to emphasise
Sounds pseudo-improvisational.

>narrator's bitter humility and better contradict his fantasies
Sounds like humblebragging about his life.
Anonymous
6/24/2025, 6:41:14 PM No.24492802
>>24489206 (OP)
Anons how do I read poetry and don't be a smartass and say read. I want to be at this level >>24489222
Of articulation, erudition and snobbery that I wish to dazzle my fellow man and friends. I am a midwit but I want to become a psued.
Anonymous
6/24/2025, 6:53:27 PM No.24492829
>>24490263
I care, now shut up?
Anonymous
6/24/2025, 6:54:05 PM No.24492832
disgust
disgust
md5: 2c2fc350cfd62d3a631ba799485a1a92🔍
>>24489217
The absolute fucking state of this board.
Anonymous
6/24/2025, 6:54:41 PM No.24492835
>>24489222
Well said, anon
Anonymous
6/24/2025, 7:35:43 PM No.24492941
>>24489217
Let me guess: you're a recent humanities graduate, and you think ebonics is a valid and legitimate language. You also have blue hair and tattoos.
Replies: >>24493374 >>24494071
Anonymous
6/24/2025, 9:40:42 PM No.24493374
35435453
35435453
md5: b60e62d14c8a4d117d3ed7fe5a0062e4🔍
>>24492941
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 2:26:00 AM No.24494071
>>24492941
No I"m a fascist
Replies: >>24494129
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 2:59:23 AM No.24494123
>>24489206 (OP)
He certainly was one of the last chad poets. We all have multiple partners and shit now, but back in his day, the game he was running was unreal.
Replies: >>24494131 >>24494402
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 3:00:42 AM No.24494129
>>24494071
A bad fascist.
Replies: >>24494216 >>24495372
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 3:01:43 AM No.24494131
>>24494123
>We all have multiple partners and shit now
do we?
Replies: >>24494151
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 3:12:05 AM No.24494151
>>24494131
Not many of the users on here, no, but it's pretty common -- especially in the arts scene. But it's almost reassuring to see that having a harem as a poet was always a logistical nightmare that never ended well.
Replies: >>24494549
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 3:58:15 AM No.24494216
>>24494129
Like “a bad feminist” lmao, go suck some cocks nigger chud, I’m in direct contact with Hitler everyday kek
Replies: >>24494218
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 3:59:43 AM No.24494218
>>24494216
No, you're a bad fascist because you like nigger noise. A good fascist would never said a rapper is better than a European poet.
Replies: >>24494397
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 4:44:56 AM No.24494293
images - 2025-06-25T124339.104
images - 2025-06-25T124339.104
md5: dde872fc19f01f58372261581d1b10d8🔍
>>24489206 (OP)
I could see Berman inhabiting a similar role had he not passed.
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 5:35:26 AM No.24494397
>>24494218
You are low IQ. Remember the Schopenhauer quote? The idea that all European poets are necessarily good is ridiculous. The fraud European poets are actively worse because they obscure actual art.
Richard Wagner (Hitler's god) sided with the North in the Civil War and believed all races besides Jews possessed those divine qualities of the purely human
Heaney and most modern poets are frauds
Do something productive with your life
Replies: >>24495450
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 5:37:20 AM No.24494402
>>24494123
Are you guys really simping for a 5th rate poet who's completely overshadowed by his much more famous feminist icon wife who killed herself?
Replies: >>24497173
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 6:34:16 AM No.24494549
>>24494151
>>24489342
>That guy needs to be studied.
Both his wife and lover committed suicide; it's actually possible for a man to have multiple women and for all of them to be happy. Ted Hughes is the last person to model in this respect, wow
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 4:43:48 PM No.24495372
>>24494129
They're the worst.
You know what they say, it only takes one bad fascist to spoil the whole barrel.
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 5:14:01 PM No.24495450
>>24494397
You're saying that Seamus Heaney is a fraud and that retarded rappers are better poets. You can't be taken seriously. Everything you say is just a poor justification for your shit taste.
Replies: >>24495828
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 8:00:11 PM No.24495828
>>24495450
Stop cursing you sound like a nigger
I like to think of when Jung/Evola said white Americans are psychologically African Kek
It’s just you and your own self-hatred kek
Nigger bitch
Replies: >>24495852
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 8:13:51 PM No.24495852
>>24495828
>the rap-worshipping retard who loves and defends nig noise over actual poetry thinks I'm somehow American
lol
Replies: >>24496283
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 11:48:17 PM No.24496283
>>24495852
Seamus Heamy the Irish Nelson Mandela is not poetry
Seeth and cope more faggot
Replies: >>24497180
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 8:53:45 AM No.24497173
>>24494402
Plath is an awful poet. Which explains the torrents of fans (read: histrionic women) she has
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 9:00:36 AM No.24497180
>>24496283
You think nig noise is poetry. Opinion discarded.