Thread 24495172 - /lit/ [Archived: 719 hours ago]

Anonymous
6/25/2025, 2:37:22 PM No.24495172
1748106345780
1748106345780
md5: 07c19ed50879abe8cf56e381e7f7bc23🔍
This mogs 3000 years of philosophy.
Replies: >>24495178 >>24495179 >>24495182 >>24495185 >>24495241 >>24495295 >>24495298 >>24495364 >>24495543 >>24495617 >>24495660 >>24495734 >>24496336 >>24497168 >>24497902 >>24498266
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 2:40:22 PM No.24495175
yeah until you start getting old and the body you are so invested in begins to inevitably decay all around you
Replies: >>24495266
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 2:44:04 PM No.24495178
>>24495172 (OP)
>train
risk of injury
>eat
risk of choking
>tan
risk of skin cancer
Replies: >>24495195 >>24496168 >>24497596 >>24498114
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 2:46:59 PM No.24495179
>>24495172 (OP)
Intellectually impoverished.
Replies: >>24496168
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 2:47:50 PM No.24495182
>>24495172 (OP)
bro will shave but never brush his hair
Replies: >>24495682
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 2:48:47 PM No.24495185
>>24495172 (OP)
the greeks that invented philosophy were athletes themselves. they knew it doesn't last.
Replies: >>24495648
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 2:59:52 PM No.24495195
>>24495178
>risk of skin cancer
biggest psyop ever. our ancestors spent all day in the sun.
Replies: >>24495210 >>24495229 >>24495272 >>24495507 >>24495673 >>24497217 >>24497754
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 3:09:04 PM No.24495210
>>24495195
and are any of them still alive? huh?
Replies: >>24496161
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 3:17:36 PM No.24495225
> train
> tan
I’ve started thinking gym bros and BAPists are pathetic. I’ve never seen a people who do so much only to fail to achieve any of the results they really seek. They usually don’t even look good, are only sometimes good with women and whatnot, are rarely good athletes beyond lifting, and almost never have an actually good or interesting life. So what was the point?
Replies: >>24495245 >>24496168
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 3:19:31 PM No.24495229
>>24495195
Most people used to die of other causes before cancer really became relevant.
Replies: >>24495261
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 3:27:26 PM No.24495241
>>24495172 (OP)
Maintaining your body is based but building your lifestyle around it is an autoL because time will take it all away and you'll have no cope.
Replies: >>24496168
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 3:28:54 PM No.24495245
>>24495225
it's a movement started by a faggot and designed to appeal to feminized men, so of course it's about trying to project an appearance and undertaking no meaningful action
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 3:40:49 PM No.24495261
>>24495229
that’s a misconception. infant mortality was higher in the past but old age wasn’t uncommon
Replies: >>24495274 >>24497413
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 3:44:44 PM No.24495266
1750859055036
1750859055036
md5: cea071fd2dc682adef8a3b26eb83b278🔍
>>24495175
>yeah until you start getting old
Replies: >>24495504 >>24496158
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 3:47:28 PM No.24495272
>>24495195
they also used to die in silly ways and had life expectancy lesser than today's donkeys.
Replies: >>24495388
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 3:48:24 PM No.24495274
>>24495261
Even in old age you're much more likely to die of other things before cancer.
Replies: >>24495275 >>24495285
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 3:49:35 PM No.24495275
>>24495274
skin cancer isn't about dying it's about looking grody with big moles and blotches all over u
Replies: >>24497311
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 3:52:28 PM No.24495280
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjnE6jfF_jI
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 3:57:50 PM No.24495285
>>24495274
if you look at the ‘blue zones’ around the world where people generally live the longest, they’re all warm, tropical climates where people spend a lot of time outdoors.
Replies: >>24495296
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 4:04:33 PM No.24495295
file
file
md5: adbe34385b6dd6e9fc5f7253ee5b9d6b🔍
>>24495172 (OP)
now back to reading.
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 4:05:08 PM No.24495296
>>24495285
if you look at the blue zones where people live the longest its also all corrupt countries with high rates of pension fraud
Replies: >>24495310
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 4:08:30 PM No.24495298
>>24495172 (OP)
Why do BAPists mask their pedestrian advice on workout as some demolishing blow to philosophy?
the self-help slop at the book store doesn't claim to refute Plato
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 4:17:43 PM No.24495310
>>24495296
only italy and greece which funnily are actually the two coolest blue zones climate-wise (compared to okinawa, nicoya, the california desert edge)
Replies: >>24495328
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 4:25:40 PM No.24495328
>>24495310
read it and weep, copelord

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/704080v3

>The observation of individuals attaining remarkable ages, and their concentration into geographic sub-regions or ‘blue zones’, has generated considerable scientific interest. Proposed drivers of remarkable longevity include high vegetable intake, strong social connections, and genetic markers. Here, we reveal new predictors of remarkable longevity and ‘supercentenarian’ status. In the United States, supercentenarian status is predicted by the absence of vital registration. The state-specific introduction of birth certificates is associated with a 69-82% fall in the number of supercentenarian records. In Italy, England, and France, which have more uniform vital registration, remarkable longevity is instead predicted by poverty, low per capita incomes, shorter life expectancy, higher crime rates, worse health, higher deprivation, fewer 90+ year olds, and residence in remote, overseas, and colonial territories. In England and France, higher old-age poverty rates alone predict more than half of the regional variation in attaining a remarkable age. Only 18% of ‘exhaustively’ validated supercentenarians have a birth certificate, falling to zero percent in the USA, and supercentenarian birthdates are concentrated on days divisible by five: a pattern indicative of widespread fraud and error. Finally, the designated ‘blue zones’ of Sardinia, Okinawa, and Ikaria corresponded to regions with low incomes, low literacy, high crime rate and short life expectancy relative to their national average. As such, relative poverty and short lifespan constitute unexpected predictors of centenarian and supercentenarian status and support a primary role of fraud and error in generating remarkable human age records.
Replies: >>24495371 >>24495382
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 4:40:15 PM No.24495364
>>24495172 (OP)
By this logic, a retard mogs everything. Make it simpler make it more pleasing,
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 4:43:03 PM No.24495371
>>24495328
okinawa and nicoya are also blue zones, but they don’t show the same level of birth certificate issues or low-income problems that the article points out. regardless of paperwork, do you actually think vitamin d deficiency is a government conspiracy?
Replies: >>24495400
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 4:45:49 PM No.24495378
again, okinawa and nicoya don’t even fit that pattern. regardless of paperwork, do you actually think vitamin d deficiency is a government conspiracy?
Replies: >>24495382
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 4:46:49 PM No.24495382
>>24495328
>>24495378
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 4:48:25 PM No.24495388
>>24495272
Historically illiterate take. Their life expectancy was low because of high rates of child mortality. If you made it to adulthood, you could live into old age.
Replies: >>24498231
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 4:54:17 PM No.24495400
>>24495371
both addressed in the paper, but this other paper shows that the nicoya blue zone stopped working for people after 1930

https://www.jstor.org/stable/48754922
>The vanishing advantage of longevity in Nicoya, Costa Rica: A cohort shift

>This article shows that hotspots of extreme longevity are probably transient and their status should be reassessed continuously. This is the first published study reassessing the status in any of the so-called blue zones.


"blue zones" are just another example of the utter rot in academia, have a nice day!
Replies: >>24495422 >>24495486
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 5:01:51 PM No.24495422
>>24495400
okinawa and nicoya aren’t low income.
the paper doesn’t say blue zones never existed - just that their benefits faded, likely due to lifestyle changes (diet, urbanisation, stress, medical systems shifts). that just supports my deeper point, which is about evolutionary biology and observable population-level health.
the fact that those advantages disappeared when people stopped living like their ancestors kind of proves the whole thing, doesn’t it?
Replies: >>24495500
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 5:28:37 PM No.24495486
>>24495400
The lenghts fatties will go to justify stuffing their faces with bacon and burgers

>It's healthy, I swear, read this random keto blog I just found, fuck Academia, I'm no part of da systam maaan
Replies: >>24495500
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 5:32:39 PM No.24495500
>>24495422
>Finally, the designated ‘blue zones’ of Sardinia, Okinawa, and Ikaria corresponded to regions with low incomes, low literacy, high crime rate and short life expectancy relative to their national average.

so the best way to be a supercentenarian is to live in high poverty high crime rate area with a low life expectancy? wow!

>>24495486
>blue zone cultist accusing others of engaging in unscientific fad diets
lol cope
Replies: >>24495515
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 5:34:44 PM No.24495504
>>24495266
> just lift weights and kill yourself before you’re old enough to do achieve anything meaningful or important goyjin
Replies: >>24495727
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 5:35:21 PM No.24495507
>>24495195
If your ancestors were plebs they would, and even they stopped working once the sun got bright (~noon) because they were retarded like modern "sun-bathers" who go out when the sun is at its most intense
Replies: >>24495512 >>24495525 >>24495677
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 5:37:44 PM No.24495512
>>24495507
tanning is like speed running aging on your skin, i assume all these influencers who say they don't use sunscreen are just trying to shake down sunscreen companies for an endorsement deal
Replies: >>24495529
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 5:39:39 PM No.24495515
>>24495500
https://www.numbeo.com/crime/in/Okinawa
humans evolved in the sun, outdoors, in warm climates. biology 101
Replies: >>24495541
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 5:44:55 PM No.24495525
>>24495507
humans in nature live like lions, just sort of chill
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 5:47:12 PM No.24495529
IMG_5740
IMG_5740
md5: f33da9968675d1860908390ebc7a83f8🔍
>>24495512
bryan johnson has all the answers
Replies: >>24495576
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 5:49:52 PM No.24495541
>>24495515
>https://stats-japan.com/t/kiji/10567
okinawa is literally number one for murder in japan
Replies: >>24495560
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 5:50:37 PM No.24495543
>>24495172 (OP)
I think it's absolutely hilarious and fitting that 4chan, the website infamous for incel dorks, is also the one most violently opposed to going out in the sun
Replies: >>24495585 >>24496168
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 5:53:56 PM No.24495553
say vs do
say vs do
md5: a2dc5e3d62d700ebc19f15d788ccb693🔍
this graphic shows what okinawan's say they do vs. what they are actually observed doing lol

>literally last of all prefecture's in japan for vegetable consumption
oof
Replies: >>24497912
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 5:57:14 PM No.24495560
>>24495541
0.542 per 100000 is not high crime. the average in america is 5 per 100k.
Replies: >>24495571 >>24495681
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 6:00:02 PM No.24495571
>>24495560
>https://stats-japan.com/t/kiji/24464
okinawa number one for consumption of hamburg steak? weird
Replies: >>24495575
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 6:02:00 PM No.24495575
>>24495571
steak is a nutritious food.
the claim that these places have a 'plant-based' diet is actually poorly documented. in reality, all their diets are mostly animal-based. many of them are coastal, so they obviously consume a lot of fresh fish. okinawa’s traditional diet was historically like 90% pork.
Replies: >>24495578
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 6:02:29 PM No.24495576
>>24495529
Wtf happened to him
Replies: >>24495582 >>24495584
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 6:04:06 PM No.24495578
>>24495575
wait but i thought u said keto was bunk
Replies: >>24495580
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 6:05:15 PM No.24495580
>>24495578
think that was another anon
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 6:05:37 PM No.24495582
>>24495576
he got old lol
Replies: >>24495623
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 6:05:45 PM No.24495584
>>24495576
got old and died
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 6:07:59 PM No.24495585
>>24495543
The sun is gay and cringe and summer sucks. I await winter’s return
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 6:18:43 PM No.24495617
>>24495172 (OP)
This is valid when you look like that. Most people sont. Read philosophy.
Replies: >>24495619 >>24496168
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 6:19:44 PM No.24495619
>>24495617
Don't *
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 6:21:09 PM No.24495623
>>24495582
Unironically for someone taking all this care for himself he does not look good. I think it's all the restrictions and stressing about little details all day that does it + the vegan diet – it has to take a tow at some point. I thought he actually looked good like 2 years ago, but seeing this pic I think that it was all make-up and studio light that made him look 'good'
Replies: >>24495627 >>24495632 >>24495636
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 6:23:22 PM No.24495627
>>24495623
Aging simply cannot be reversed
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 6:24:28 PM No.24495629
>the replies
/lit/ on suicidewatch over the truth
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 6:24:51 PM No.24495632
>>24495623
vegan diet, avoiding the sun, all the exercise. he lives so unnaturally of course he ends up looking like … a woman on chemotherapy
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 6:28:03 PM No.24495636
>>24495623
it's funny i'm almost the same age as him and basically look the same just workout, do cardio, don't eat stupid shit, and stay out of peak sun. no need to spend a million tech bro bux on bullshit. you're going to get old, deal with it.
Replies: >>24495643 >>24495685
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 6:32:18 PM No.24495643
>>24495636
working out actually ages you prematurely
Replies: >>24495647
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 6:33:44 PM No.24495647
>>24495643
being some powerlifting tard that eats 3000 calories of slop a day to "bulk" yeah, i'm talking about calisthenics and stuff like kettlebells not deadlifting so heavy u pass out
Replies: >>24495652
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 6:33:45 PM No.24495648
>>24495185
And gay. Like OP.
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 6:34:39 PM No.24495652
>>24495647
cardio might be the worst it doesn’t even make you stronger just stresses your heart
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 6:40:30 PM No.24495660
1675299406021686
1675299406021686
md5: 6e6fdb2e8dfc567a4b9909f0cdc2f603🔍
>>24495172 (OP)
>our way of life is based because it makes sure we don't think deeply on any given subject
this is an unironic jewish psyop designed to make you dumber and more hedonistic. yes, do all three things by all means but never stop thinking critically.
Replies: >>24495674
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 6:47:25 PM No.24495673
>>24495195
says who moron? just because you gathered with your tiny brain they must've been outside all the time because buildings didn't exist (they did) it doesn't make it true. fucking retard.
Replies: >>24495700
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 6:48:28 PM No.24495674
>>24495660
i bet you think going to college is a scam tho even tho not getting an education is the biggest psyop
Replies: >>24495704
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 6:48:59 PM No.24495677
>>24495507
You need to tan your balls at peak hours my friend.
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 6:50:30 PM No.24495681
>>24495560
I got to get the fuck out of my country.
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 6:50:53 PM No.24495682
>>24495182
He’s trying to hide that he’s balding.
Replies: >>24496153
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 6:51:59 PM No.24495685
>>24495636
Wisdom
'The body is not the Self'
Replies: >>24495698
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 6:56:35 PM No.24495698
>>24495685
body is self. you are your body.
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 6:57:20 PM No.24495700
>>24495673
you seem really emotional about it. do your think you might be vitamin d deficient?
humans spent the majority of their lives outdoors. that’s not a controversial idea.
Replies: >>24495739
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 6:58:35 PM No.24495704
>>24495674
I believe colleges need some serious revamping in certain areas but are otherwise a net positive (yes, even muh gender studies degrees) and im saying this as a tradie
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 7:09:26 PM No.24495727
>>24495504
>before you’re old enough to do achieve anything meaningful or important
that nigga is one of the most famous authors of all time
Replies: >>24495813
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 7:10:36 PM No.24495734
>>24495172 (OP)
I can respect training and staying in shape, but tanning is a genuinely dangerous phenomenon and many of my family members have been diagnosed with skin cancer over the years.
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 7:13:06 PM No.24495739
>>24495700
yeah lack of vitamin d is making me emotional, that sounds like someone with over two digit IQ would say.

I am just fed up with reading absolutely braindead posts constantly. it's like tiktok in text format.
Replies: >>24495756 >>24496098
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 7:19:13 PM No.24495756
>>24495739
low vitamin d levels plays a role in brain health and mood regulation.
& i don’t think i said anything out of line
Replies: >>24496304
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 7:52:53 PM No.24495813
>>24495727
Not even close, and simply being a novelist isn’t exactly a crazy achievement especially considering this guy tried and failed to stage a military coup and pretty much swore off books at the end of his life
Replies: >>24496019
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 9:42:12 PM No.24496019
1732131613495700
1732131613495700
md5: eeec41266b7708cf0dbd2ad7ea8c86e6🔍
>>24495813
>pretty much swore off books at the end of his life
Last book published by him was in 1970 and another post humously 1971.
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 10:23:29 PM No.24496098
>>24495739
i dont think its vit d I think youre just a sissy faggot
Replies: >>24496117
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 10:34:05 PM No.24496117
>>24496098
go sun your balls faggot
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 10:48:19 PM No.24496153
>>24495682
When you're that attractive the baddies will fly you out to Turkey and pay for your plugs
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 10:50:03 PM No.24496158
>>24495266
I love his jaw. Looks as if it has its own volition. A bit like a big dog pulling on a leash.
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 10:51:06 PM No.24496161
>>24495210
>*points at you with his chin*
Anonymous
6/25/2025, 10:54:04 PM No.24496168
>>24495178
If you go outside you run the risk of getting hit by a car. Should you stay inside your whole life? Everything worth doing in life requires risk. If youre optimizing your life around minimizing risk, then sit in the corner and we'll put a sheet over you. Being terrified of everything, even the fucking sun, is a terrible way to live.
>>24495179
When will pseudointellectuals realize that isolation from others, from the so called intellectuals, IS the final step in achieving any kind of worthy state of life, such as peace, contentment, etc?
>>24495225
Unbelievably pathetic cope.
>wah it doesn't last forever
Nothing you do lasts forever, no gymbro is under the disillusion that it does. It's a non argument to justify your own insecurities around looking like shit.
>>24495241
Time will take everything away, that's a non argument.
>>24495543
I have made the same observation, see above.
>>24495617
You don't look like that because you don't try. You got the inputs and outputs mixed up retard. Put some effort in and youll look better.
Replies: >>24497939 >>24498126
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 12:00:37 AM No.24496304
>>24495756
Melaninated individuals have lower IQ unless they take vitamin D supplements.
Replies: >>24496401 >>24496440
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 12:17:51 AM No.24496336
>>24495172 (OP)
He's right. I guarantee there will be sissy cope when I read this thread


yup.
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 12:56:53 AM No.24496401
>>24496304
supplements are useless at best, toxic at worst
Replies: >>24497131
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 1:18:44 AM No.24496440
>>24496304
Do they really need to take supplements? Being inside 24/7 is a white thing.
Replies: >>24497131
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 8:22:47 AM No.24497131
>>24496440
Yes, whites produce more vitamin D in their own pitch dark basement than melaninated individuals absorb under direct sunlight at the equator. And vitamin D is positively correlated with IQ.
>>24496401
Take your meds.
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 8:51:02 AM No.24497168
>>24495172 (OP)
kys bapfag
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 9:06:02 AM No.24497187
IMG_6976
IMG_6976
md5: fa2ea8da2a878fc93ee424933bccae0a🔍
Lifting's all well and good, but it's just the baseline for not looking like shit or being a weakling, it's not really an end in itself (though it's easy to think so when you start seeing huge gains and revolutionary progress in your physique during your first few years). Throw some real physical hobbies into the mix instead of contentedly resigning yourself to being a bore. Do keep lifting and sunbathing through all that, of course.
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 9:35:12 AM No.24497217
>>24495195
Wearing hats and long sleeves
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 10:59:15 AM No.24497311
>>24495275
a common look among old peasants who toiled in the sun for decades
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 12:46:40 PM No.24497413
>>24495261
That's false, most died before age 60
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 3:18:01 PM No.24497596
>>24495178
>Living
Risk of death
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 4:54:21 PM No.24497754
>>24495195
>our ancestors spent all day in the sun.
Maybe your brownoid ancestors. My Aryan skin gets burned if it stays in the sun for too long.
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 5:05:30 PM No.24497781
der snownig
der snownig
md5: 14788c0759caa264f18cf56c4f618079🔍
>Maybe your brownoid ancestors. My Aryan skin gets burned if it stays in the sun for too long.
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 5:54:45 PM No.24497902
>>24495172 (OP)
The mistake was labeling these lowbrow BAPniggers as some sort of intellectual counter-culture. They clearly aren't cut for literature or the arts, everything they believe in is crass and superficial. What sustains them is this LARP of body-improving masculinity; liking Plato because he was an athlete without understanding him, as well as the Stoics, Nietzsche, and so forth. No matter how you look at them they're low IQ niggercattle uncut for any reflective activity like reading
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 5:59:16 PM No.24497912
>>24495553
So they are a bunch of skinny alcoholic atheists who eat meat and no veg??
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 6:09:45 PM No.24497939
>>24496168
>Unbelievably pathetic cope.
>wah it doesn't last forever
Right on cue, the meathead demonstrates his poor reading comprehension.
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 7:12:30 PM No.24498114
>>24495178
>read
risk of this level of pseudism
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 7:15:52 PM No.24498126
>>24496168
>When will pseudointellectuals realize that isolation from others, from the so called intellectuals, IS the final step in achieving any kind of worthy state of life, such as peace, contentment, etc?
The problem with this Chad's routine isn't being "isolated" from intellectuals. The problem is he is doing nothing that engages his mind.
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 8:10:44 PM No.24498231
>>24495388
>old age
Which was, by most standards, 60 years old.
Literally ask your grandparents, if you still have them: when they were children, 60 years old was very, very, veeeery old
Replies: >>24498257
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 8:27:26 PM No.24498257
>>24498231
From what we know of the past, excluding child mortality, in pre-modern times, 65 was generally considered a privileged age to reach; by 1700, it was probably around 70; in the mid-Victorian period in England, 80 was considered very old, but achievable; and for the contemporary West, 90 is a good time to croak.
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 8:32:10 PM No.24498266
1748270558205612
1748270558205612
md5: 2876ae06193f1b2902a2f41842f14ddf🔍
>>24495172 (OP)
>Pride in goalless training.
>Gluttony of slop for primitive pleasure.
>Slothfulness for shallow vanity
Maintenance is a slow and insidious killer.
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 8:51:23 PM No.24498313
swap tan with read and I'm in