Anonymous
6/26/2025, 11:30:40 PM No.24498758
Why was Socrates like this?
Replies:
Thread 24498758 - /lit/ [Archived: 656 hours ago]
Anonymous
6/26/2025, 11:38:34 PM No.24498779
>>24498758 (OP)
why are you like this?
why are you like this?
Anonymous
6/27/2025, 12:25:23 AM No.24498926
>>24498758 (OP)
You're education in the Greeks should've involved the reading of Thucydides. Read his work and then reflect on your question.
You're education in the Greeks should've involved the reading of Thucydides. Read his work and then reflect on your question.
Anonymous
6/27/2025, 1:01:23 AM No.24499022
Socrates was philosopher and the concept of philosophy is essentially just a form of rigorous questioning
Anonymous
6/27/2025, 1:06:40 AM No.24499039
Did Socrates ever get attacked or mobbed like his modern versions who stand on the street asking questions?
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Anonymous
6/27/2025, 1:08:16 AM No.24499042
he watched the entire board burn
Anonymous
6/27/2025, 1:21:02 AM No.24499068
>>24499039
Yeah, he was eventually compelled to suicide
Yeah, he was eventually compelled to suicide
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Anonymous
6/27/2025, 3:58:03 AM No.24499381
>>24499365
he took it like a 3 day ban. fuck jannies.
he took it like a 3 day ban. fuck jannies.
Anonymous
6/27/2025, 4:36:13 AM No.24499436
>>24498969
It's so interesting that this outline meme is the only thing that will remain of Scrubs in another decade. Scrubs was not a particularly great or memorable show, but the memetic ability for a small vestige of it to continue on into the subcultural consciousness when nobody will remember the origin is fascinating.
It's so interesting that this outline meme is the only thing that will remain of Scrubs in another decade. Scrubs was not a particularly great or memorable show, but the memetic ability for a small vestige of it to continue on into the subcultural consciousness when nobody will remember the origin is fascinating.
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Anonymous
6/27/2025, 4:40:57 AM No.24499451
he was the first to realize that there is no objective basis to cultural values. he kept asking to show that no one had any real answer.
plato coped with it by saying that they were based in a world of the beyond.
plato coped with it by saying that they were based in a world of the beyond.
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Anonymous
6/27/2025, 5:32:47 AM No.24499530
>>24499436
Scrubs? It's from The Last of Us 2
I believe you're thinking of "where do you think we are," different composition.
Scrubs? It's from The Last of Us 2
I believe you're thinking of "where do you think we are," different composition.
Anonymous
6/27/2025, 6:50:21 AM No.24499695
Anonymous
6/27/2025, 9:21:59 AM No.24499902
>>24499436
Thanks for your input, Claude
Thanks for your input, Claude
Anonymous
6/27/2025, 12:43:26 PM No.24500114
because if you tell retards the truth, they will lash out and throw a tantrum (they think they know better)
but if you ask them a lot of questions about their thinking, they will see that they have no idea what they are talking about (assuming a minimum of intelligence and humility are also present).
then, you can talk with them.
but if you ask them a lot of questions about their thinking, they will see that they have no idea what they are talking about (assuming a minimum of intelligence and humility are also present).
then, you can talk with them.
Anonymous
6/27/2025, 3:21:53 PM No.24500405
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Anonymous
6/27/2025, 3:33:17 PM No.24500427
>>24499451
Herodotus already advanced the cultural relativism thesis. But arguing from cultural differences to relativism is often fraught. To see why, consider the shape of the Earth. Different people at different times and places had different beliefs about this. And what you believed tended to depend on the culture you grew up in. But it doesn't follow from this that the Earth has no shape, or that the shape of the Earth varies by which culture you are a part of. There is also the idea that custom derives from common principles, like the same light passing through different colored panes of glass.
Socrates wasn't a relativist thought and attempts to disentangle Socrates from Plato are very suspect and often based on highly speculative chronologies of the dialogues, which are often used to make Socrates simply more friendly to mosen culture. Suffice to say, ancient Greeks reading the dialogues in their native language with less cultural distance did not come anywhere near this new, 20th century conclusion about the "real" Socrates, and I think it's easy to see why.
Herodotus already advanced the cultural relativism thesis. But arguing from cultural differences to relativism is often fraught. To see why, consider the shape of the Earth. Different people at different times and places had different beliefs about this. And what you believed tended to depend on the culture you grew up in. But it doesn't follow from this that the Earth has no shape, or that the shape of the Earth varies by which culture you are a part of. There is also the idea that custom derives from common principles, like the same light passing through different colored panes of glass.
Socrates wasn't a relativist thought and attempts to disentangle Socrates from Plato are very suspect and often based on highly speculative chronologies of the dialogues, which are often used to make Socrates simply more friendly to mosen culture. Suffice to say, ancient Greeks reading the dialogues in their native language with less cultural distance did not come anywhere near this new, 20th century conclusion about the "real" Socrates, and I think it's easy to see why.
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Anonymous
6/27/2025, 3:34:40 PM No.24500431
>>24500427
BTW, Aristotle's comments on Socrates also support the idea that he was looking for unifying moral principles, and funny enough, after 20 years as Plato's prize student, Aristotle does not seem to agree with any "ironic" readings of Plato's corpus or Socrates.
BTW, Aristotle's comments on Socrates also support the idea that he was looking for unifying moral principles, and funny enough, after 20 years as Plato's prize student, Aristotle does not seem to agree with any "ironic" readings of Plato's corpus or Socrates.
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Anonymous
6/27/2025, 3:40:58 PM No.24500442
>>24498758 (OP)
What's two plus two? And don't say four or one plus three or any such nonsense.
What's two plus two? And don't say four or one plus three or any such nonsense.
Anonymous
6/27/2025, 3:43:00 PM No.24500446
>>24499451
It wasn't relativism. His point was that nobody is actually wise, especially those who think themselves wise. You'd have to be retarded to think he didn't think there was an objective truth; he just believed none of the viewpoints he was given were close to it.
It wasn't relativism. His point was that nobody is actually wise, especially those who think themselves wise. You'd have to be retarded to think he didn't think there was an objective truth; he just believed none of the viewpoints he was given were close to it.
Anonymous
6/27/2025, 3:47:25 PM No.24500456
>>24500431
Well, one mitigating point, re: how he read Plato, is that he disagrees with Speusippus and Xenocrates on, e.g., whether the creation myth in Timaeus should be understood literally such that there's an actual beginning to things. Both Speusippus and Xenocrates took it as non-literal, believing there was no such beginning. If anything, the testimony of the three together shows disagreements almost immediately among people who knew Plato for a long time on how to understand his writings. (Not to mention peculiarities such as Aristotle referring to the Athenian Stranger in the Laws as "Socrates".)
Well, one mitigating point, re: how he read Plato, is that he disagrees with Speusippus and Xenocrates on, e.g., whether the creation myth in Timaeus should be understood literally such that there's an actual beginning to things. Both Speusippus and Xenocrates took it as non-literal, believing there was no such beginning. If anything, the testimony of the three together shows disagreements almost immediately among people who knew Plato for a long time on how to understand his writings. (Not to mention peculiarities such as Aristotle referring to the Athenian Stranger in the Laws as "Socrates".)
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Anonymous
6/27/2025, 3:56:11 PM No.24500472
Anonymous
6/27/2025, 4:19:16 PM No.24500538
>>24500456
The Timaeus itself suggests it is speculative, but the idea I think is that some of the underlying elements can be justified with proper understanding (proper understanding involving noesis/intellectus, not just discursive justification from axioms as in Enlightenment thought). So, Aristotle's point about the chora being akin to his theory of matter (really prime matter) I would take as suggesting an isomorphism in theory, and a suggestion of what can be known through a sort of transcendental argument about what is necessary for real change given the primacy of act over potency.
Aristotle often refers to the "Platonists" and not Plato, and maybe I am reading too much into this, but this strikes me as something indicating that there might be a gap between naive readings of Plato by some and Plato. For, the Greeks who received Aristotle certainly still tended to take him in a Platonist direction, the "empiricist materialist Aristotle,' being a modern invention.
Personally, I like the later synthesis more, particularly Saint Maximus and Saint Thomas.
The Timaeus itself suggests it is speculative, but the idea I think is that some of the underlying elements can be justified with proper understanding (proper understanding involving noesis/intellectus, not just discursive justification from axioms as in Enlightenment thought). So, Aristotle's point about the chora being akin to his theory of matter (really prime matter) I would take as suggesting an isomorphism in theory, and a suggestion of what can be known through a sort of transcendental argument about what is necessary for real change given the primacy of act over potency.
Aristotle often refers to the "Platonists" and not Plato, and maybe I am reading too much into this, but this strikes me as something indicating that there might be a gap between naive readings of Plato by some and Plato. For, the Greeks who received Aristotle certainly still tended to take him in a Platonist direction, the "empiricist materialist Aristotle,' being a modern invention.
Personally, I like the later synthesis more, particularly Saint Maximus and Saint Thomas.
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Anonymous
6/27/2025, 4:40:42 PM No.24500596
>>24500538
Granted, but my basic point is that an "ironic" reading of Plato can't be refuted in a settled manner by appealing to Aristotle and how much time he spent with Plato, when other contemporaries such as Plato's nephew and the third Scholarch of the Academy differed in their reading on a point over whether something in a dialogue was meant literally or not. I don't think that means Speusippus or Xenocrates are thereby right, but absent any truly firm information on how Plato taught, how the dialogues were concretely used, and what Plato thought of any of those three men, the issue remains speculative and open to other readings.
Granted, but my basic point is that an "ironic" reading of Plato can't be refuted in a settled manner by appealing to Aristotle and how much time he spent with Plato, when other contemporaries such as Plato's nephew and the third Scholarch of the Academy differed in their reading on a point over whether something in a dialogue was meant literally or not. I don't think that means Speusippus or Xenocrates are thereby right, but absent any truly firm information on how Plato taught, how the dialogues were concretely used, and what Plato thought of any of those three men, the issue remains speculative and open to other readings.
Anonymous
6/27/2025, 9:49:26 PM No.24501380
>>24500405
hyperbole
hyperbole
Anonymous
6/28/2025, 7:07:05 AM No.24502474
>>24498758 (OP)
He was a troll
He was a troll
Anonymous
6/28/2025, 11:27:17 AM No.24503025
>>24499068
>compelled to suicide
This is so common a misunderstanding. He was so against exile he’d rather die. They didn’t actually set out to kill him he was just too stubborn to live.
>>24498758 (OP)
You can’t read the dialogues without coming away with a sense that he was annoying as shit. What we call sophistry today is a lot like what he was engaged in, which is ironic.
Plato at least tried to offer answers.
>compelled to suicide
This is so common a misunderstanding. He was so against exile he’d rather die. They didn’t actually set out to kill him he was just too stubborn to live.
>>24498758 (OP)
You can’t read the dialogues without coming away with a sense that he was annoying as shit. What we call sophistry today is a lot like what he was engaged in, which is ironic.
Plato at least tried to offer answers.
