The 3 glorified European poets. My masters

>the English have Shakespeare
>the Italians have Dante
>the Germans have either Wagner or Goethe

You know the French don't really have one single king shit nigga poet, do they? They don't have anybody on the level of those three/four for their own nation.

>>24499181
Baudelaire and (for his brief time) Rimbaud and at times Hugo would probably qualify as king shit nigga poet, but not at the level of those 3/4
They seem to have on average of a higher level of baseline culture (at least Nietzsche was able to say "when it comes to Europe I only believe in French culture") but less superhuman intelligences

>>24499178 (OP)
Wagner was more of a musician than anything else.

>>24499181
Baudelaire, but the symbolists in general I think come across as too strange to many.

>>24499178 (OP)
Wagner doesn't fit

>>24499178 (OP)
It should be Goethe instead of Wagner

>>24499279
filtered
>>24499290
Wagner fits next to Shakespeare as world historic prophecy
>>24499294
nope

>>24499279
Wagner himself would say Aeschylus belongs in the third stamp but we all know Euripides was better than Aeschylus even if Wagner never admitted it.

>>24499339
you know nothing about Wagner and I doubt you've even heard of Logier.

>>24499355
Okay, Jew
>>24499345
We're talking about modern Europe

>>24499178 (OP)
I don't see milton?

>>24499279
yes well we lie in the "bob dylan gets a nobel prize for literature" timeline

Unto each I shall build an altar.

>>24499181
Balzac unironically and if you disagree you don’t get that that’s what he was trying to be.

>>24499355
You don't need to study Logier to understand Wagner, kek.

>>24499485
begone, pleb. only the most esoteric Logierians can understand the music of Wagner (PBUH).

>>24499279
Baudelaire:
>I found in those of his works which are translated, particularly in Tannhäuser, Lohengrin and the Flying Dutchman, an excellent method of construction, a spirit of order and division which recalls the architecture of ancient tragedies.

Whitman:
>I am again consumed with regret for knowing I have never had a chance to hear the wonderful operas. I say 'wonderful' because I feel that they are constructed on my lines—attach themselves to the same theories of art that have been responsible for Leaves of Grass.

Villiers de l'Isle-Adam:
>He is the very man of whom we have dreamed; he is a genius such as appears upon the earth once every thousand years.

Nietzsche:
>One has almost calculated the whole of the value of modernity once one is clear concerning what is good and evil in Wagner.

Mallarme:
>Oh strange defiance hurled at poets by him who has usurped their duty with the most open and splendid audacity: Richard Wagner!

Strindberg:
>In reading Wagner's Rheingold, I discover a great poet, and understand now why I have not comprehended the greatness of this musician, whose music is the only proper accompaniment to his words.

Weininger:
>[Wagner is] the greatest man since Christ’s time

D'Annunzio:
>In articulating our need for metaphysics, [Wagner] has revealed to us a hidden part of our interior life.

Yeats:
>Wagner's dramas are becoming to Germany what the Greek Tragedies were to Greece.

Strauss:
>Tristan does not, as you believe, represent the "dazzling resurrection" of romanticism, but the end of all romanticism, as it brings into focus the longing of the entire 19th century, longing which is finally released in the Tag- und Nachtsgeprach and in Isolde's Liebestod. . . Tristan is the ultimate conclusion of Schiller and Goethe and the highest fulfilment of a development of the theatre stretching over 2,000 years.

Hauptmann:
>[The Ring is] perhaps the most mystifying work of art of the last few thousand years

Joyce:
>There are indeed hardly more than a dozen original themes in world LITERATURE ... Tristan und Isolde is an example of an original theme.

C.S. Lewis:
>I will by no means join in the modern depreciation of Wagner. He may, for all I know, have been a bad man. He may (though I shall never believe it) have been a bad musician. But as a mythopoeic poet he is incomparable.

Auden:
>[Wagner is] perhaps the greatest genius that ever lived

Lévi-Strauss:
>[Wagner is] the undeniable father of the structural analysis of myth

Junger:
>Thoughts about the mighty mind of the dramatist who breathes artificial breath into past ages and dead cultures so that they move like corpses we can quote. A sorcerer of the highest order who conjures with real blood at the gates of the underworld.

Scruton:
>Modern high culture is as much a set of footnotes to Wagner as Western philosophy is, in Whitehead’s judgement, footnotes to Plato.

>>24499570
Buadelaire. You were playing with primary matter. But how many have confused it with the tertiary.

>>24499570
Wagner the musician: God tier

Wagner the anything else: meh

>>24499577
How can you not be impressed by the epic scale of the Ring drama?

>>24499594
Wagner's Ring Cycle is a musical composition first and foremost. The rest is secondary but /lit/tards like you will disagree.

>>24499181
Baudelaire is king shit nigga poet, and absolutely disgusting. He is seen as the father of modernism in poetry.

>>24499619
It wasn't intended to be a musical composition first and foremost and it doesn't make sense as one. There's a great deal of music you simply you will not pay attention to, especially in Das Rheingold, if you're not interested in the music as an expression of the drama.

>>24499622
He was very spiritual in his orientation. I'm unsatisfied by TS Eliot's treatment but he was on to something.

Vers le Ciel, où son oeil voit un trône splendide,
Le Poète serein lève ses bras pieux
Et les vastes éclairs de son esprit lucide
Lui dérobent l'aspect des peuples furieux:

— «Basedez béni, mon Dieu, qui donnez la souffrance
Comme un divin remède à nos impuretés
Et comme la meilleure et la plus pure essence
Qui prépare les forts aux saintes voluptés!
see:
https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/13792/pg13792-images.html

>>24499619
The poem is primary because it is composed first. You are only right to the extend that the extreme enthusiasm that Wagner induces is usually due (first) to the music--but the music is inseparable to the words because their development is coterminous

>>24499570
entire CS Lewis quote:
> Coming, as I do, to bury but also to praise the receding age, I will by no means join in the modern depreciation of Wagner. He may, for all I know, have been a bad man. He may (though I shall never believe it) have been a bad musician. But as a mythopoeic poet he is incomparable. The tragedy of the Evolutionary Myth has never been more nobly expressed than in his Wotan; its heady raptures never more irresistibly than in Siegfried. That he himself knew quite well what he was writing about can be seen from his letter to August Rockel of 1854. "The progress of the whole drama shows the necessity of recognizing and submitting to the change, the diversity, the multiplicity, the eternal novelty of the Real. Wotan rises to the tragic height of willing his own downfall. This is all we have to learn from the history of Man - to will what is necessary and to bring it ourselves to pass."

>>24499709
>CS Lewis said

stopped reading right there. into the trash it goes.

>>24499339
"world historical prophecy" what the fuck are you talking about

>>24499761
he overdosed on Hegel.

>>24499619
The very point of the ring cycle is that it's a synthesis between the drama and the music. The one is integral to the other, which is why it is so compelling, as is the case with all of Wagner's musical works.

>>24499761
I won't degrade the truth by trying to explicate it to people who will not understand. Do not want to understand
But is no accident that the great poet of modernity is born in the country that goes on to become the global superpower
> Stars, hide your fires
Let not light see my black and deep desires:

>>24499761
>TONE-SPEECH is the beginning and end of Word-speech: as the Feeling is beginning and end of the Understanding, as Mythos is beginning and end of History, the Lyric beginning and end of Poetry. The mediator between beginning and middle, as between the latter and the point of exit, is the Phantasy.

>The march of this evolution is such, however, that it is no retrogression, but a progress to the winning of the highest human faculty; and it is travelled, not merely by Mankind in general, but substantially by every social Individual.

>Just as in the unconscious Feeling lie all the germs for evolution of the Understanding, while this latter holds within it a necessitation to vindicate the unconscious feeling, and the man who from out his Understanding vindicates this Feeling is first the man of Vernunft; just as in Mythos justified by History, which alike grew out of it, is first won a really intelligible image of Life: so does the Lyric also hold within itself each germ of the intrinsic art of Poetry, which necessarily can but end with speaking out the vindication of the Lyric; and this work of vindication is precisely the highest human Artwork, the Entire Drama (das vollkommene Drama).

>>24499576
Hölderlin and Novalis are Gods, don't understand your pic though. And what is Schiller doing there? He's more like a father to them.

>>24499570
It must have been amazing to be growing up in a time when an titanic inarguable genius was knocking about, revolutionising his medium, taking it to new artistic and intellectual heights for all to see.

>>24499538
indubitably.

>>24500065
Read Weingartner's Reminiscences for a vivid description of such an experience:

>The party was already breaking up when I approached Porges and reminded him of his promise. My two friends were with me, and Porges introduced us. Wagner extended his hand in a friendly manner, and asked us if we had already heard any performances. He appeared to notice that I was excited, for he suddenly laid his hand on my chest and cried, 'How your heart is beating!' When, in my surprise and embarrassment, I made no reply, he added in broad Saxon: 'Now, you see, for such a young man as you, the Flower-Maidens are the principal things in "Parsifal," but don't lose your heart to them.' Then he shook hands with us once more. We had just reached the door as he shouted after us, 'But don't lose your heart.' I turned round, and there stood Wagner alone in the middle of the room, smilingly waving his hand to me.

>>24499224
BPD culture. I could go off on a tangent as to why.

>>24499181
This.
But for some reason French is considered a more beautiful language than English, Italian, and German.

>>24500298
To some, sure

>>24500092
Such experiences only exist for me in dreams.

>>24500092
If you unironically read anything Weininger, you’re lost.

>>24499181
>>24499224
Baudelaire is better than anything produced by the germans or italians. He's also probably the most influential poet since Shakespeare; virtually all of modernism can be traced to his influence. Also, Apollinaire is a definitely a king shit nigga poet.

>>24500318
???? That's WeinGARTner, the conductor, not Weininger, the philosopher.

>>24499181
The French get too much hate. They practically gave us Western literature. The Song of Roland, the Arthurian romances, the Romance of the Rose, Christine de Pisan, Francois Villon, Charles the Duke of Orleans, so many. The French have never had one crazy standout but have always been THE single most solid collective of writers in Western writers, from medieval poems to modern novels. The French are sincerely top bucket.

>>24500092
Bit gay

>>24500092
Also pic rel

>>24499178 (OP)
milton is arguably better than shakey as a poet.

>>24499178 (OP)
>wagner
>poet
xD

>>24501691
I don't think so. Are you an infernalist? His work becomes far more profound if you regard Satan as the moral exemplar

>>24501682
This reminds me of Nietzsche's statement that his relationship with Wagner was his 'only love affair'.

>>24499178 (OP)
>that ugly hick next to Dante and Shakespeare
Stop pushing the Wagner meme, this is ridiculous. Are you possibly autistic? Stop earning yourself hate by making childish assertions

>>24502269
What statement?


>As I am speaking here of the recreations of my life, I feel I must express a word or two of gratitude for that which has refreshed me by far the most heartily and most profoundly. This, without the slightest doubt, was my intimate relationship with Richard Wagner. All my other relationships with men I treat quite lightly; but I would not have the days I spent at Tribschen—those days of confidence, of cheerfulness, of sublime flashes, and of profound moments—blotted from my life at any price. I know not what Wagner may have been for others; but no cloud ever darkened our sky. And this brings me back again to France,—I have no arguments against Wagnerites, and hoc genus omne who believe that they do honour to Wagner[Pg 42] by believing him to be like themselves; for such people I have only a contemptuous curl of my lip. With a nature like mine, which is so strange to everything Teutonic, that even the presence of a German retards my digestion, my first meeting with Wagner was the first moment in my life in which I breathed freely: I felt him, I honoured him, as a foreigner, as the opposite and the incarnate contradiction of all "German virtues." We who as children breathed the marshy atmosphere of the fifties, are necessarily pessimists in regard to the concept "German"; we cannot be anything else than revolutionaries—we can assent to no state of affairs which allows the canting bigot to be at the top. I care not a jot whether this canting bigot acts in different colours to-day, whether he dresses in scarlet or dons the uniform of a hussar. Very well, then! Wagner was a revolutionary—he fled from the Germans.... As an artist, a man has no home in Europe save in Paris; that subtlety of all the five senses which Wagner's art presupposes, those fingers that can detect slight gradations, psychological morbidity—all these things can be found only in Paris. Nowhere else can you meet with this passion for questions of form, this earnestness in matters of mise-en-scène, which is the Parisian earnestness par excellence. In Germany no one has any idea of the tremendous ambition that fills the heart of a Parisian artist. The German is a good fellow. Wagner was by no means a good fellow.... But I have already said quite[Pg 43] enough on the subject of Wagner's real nature (see Beyond Good and Evil, Aphorism 269), and about those to whom he is most closely related. He is one of the late French romanticists, that high-soaring and heaven-aspiring band of artists, like Delacroix and Berlioz, who in their inmost nacres are sick and incurable, and who are all fanatics of expression, and virtuosos through and through.... Who, in sooth, was the first intelligent follower of Wagner? Charles Baudelaire, the very man who first understood Delacroix—that typical decadent, in whom a whole generation of artists saw their reflection; he was perhaps the last of them too.... What is it that I have never forgiven Wagner?

>The fact that he condescended to the Germans—that he became a German Imperialist.... Wherever Germany spreads, she ruins culture.
On the other hand Wagner was said of the French, "The problem with the French is, they're all Jews."

>>24502279
How's the weather in Tel Aviv?

>>24500875
>The French get too much hate
they really don't. /lit/ has one autist fixated against them for some odd reason and that's about it.
French lit has been the standard of intelligentsia in all of Eastern Europe, Switzerland, The Balkans, Iberia and Latin America, as well as England up to some point in the 19th-20th century when the elites forgot how to speak French.

>>24502284
What an intelligent response, so you really do believe liking Wagner is just liking the German national sentiment and his personal views on the Jews. I'm now aware that your interest in art is wholly superficial, dismissed.

>>24502280
>in a draft of the preface to the second part of Human, All Too Human, Nietzsche described his relationship with Wagner as "my only love-affair," before striking the phrase from his proofs.

>>24502281
on a deeper level Wagner is actually right about this. France has been a Semitic/Mediterranean country since the reformation (read about the Huguenots for more info.).

>>24502279
No one cares about your 'hate' (kek) when you're too stupid to even know why Wagner is important, or perhaps too uneducated to be familiar with his cultural reputation.

>>24502311
>i'm too smart to explain it to you
You're reaffirming my belief that you have no conditions to place him next to Dante and Shakespeare other than your autistic fixation. You started with one-liners seething at Jews, don't act like your adherence to Wagner's work is related to your status as part of the intelligentsia kek

>>24502328
NTA but Wagner was one of the greatest musical geniuses and visionaries in history who became something of a legend in his own lifetime.

>>24502328
You didn't ask anyone to explain to you why Wagner was there, you simply condescended as if you knew anything about the topic and insulted people who are aware of Wagner's importance. Now you're complaining that I haven't spoonfed you? Well, do you know anything about Wagner or not? If yes, then why do you expect people to explain to you his significance? If not, then why are you making judgements about him as if you have any authority? Also, I'm not the anon who called you a Jew, although his post is no lower in quality than your own.

Absolutely embarrassing display.

>>24502352
to be fair Wagner basically called anyone who wasn't a Nordic Protestant/Neo-Pagan a Jew.

>>24502289
lol

>>24502352
>assumes ignorance again
>"y-you're making judgements with no authority!"
>the thread says Wagner sits with Dante and Shakespeare
kek
the wagner circlejerk resorts to this and shit-flinging nationalism, to persistently discuss him as some prophet of aesthetics
my responses are not serious in response to clear attention-seeking in OP, you literal sperg.

>>24502379
go sound like an Indian who knows nothing about music.

>>24502384
>go sound

>>24502388
I made an autocorrect typo. you are still a moron.

>>24502379
Lol, so you're now saying you weren't being serious when you wrote your retarded post, but you're still complaining about people not spoonfeeding you basic information. If you want to get angry and insult people for highly esteeming Wagner, that's fine, but why also demand to be explained to? No one's going to have a discussion with you when all you've said is "you're retarded for believing this", and I'm still confused as to why you feel the need to claim you weren't being serious in your posts, as if to salvage your intellectual dignity, when your request for arguments and justifications is clearly serious. I really have no idea what you're going on about or what you want to get out of this thread.

>>24502394
don't bother arguing with him. He's a fucking retard who has never even heard of Mahler or Bruckner and wouldn't know how to find the root of a chord to save his life.

>>24502403
True. He didn't even seem familiar with Wagner's importance as a composer.

There are of the most sublime and edifying photographs of a man that we have. We can only imagine what Shakespeare actually looked like
> And that the prevailing facial expression is the result of a long process of innumerable, fleeting and characteristic contractions of the features is just the reason why intellectual countenances are of gradual formation. It is, indeed, only in old age that intellectual men attain their sublime expression, whilst portraits of them in their youth show only the first traces of it.

>>24499181
Ronsard is, he has been called prince of poets and has been read in school pretty much non-stop since the sixteenth century. As a national figure, probably displaced by the triad Corneille/Racine/Molière in recent times. You know the only exception standing out in your list is Shakespeare which is pretty much a subject on his own. Nobody in Italy or Germany go to school to spend one or several years on Goethe or Dante. The closest to Shakespeare would be Corneille and Racine in genre, length and recognition.

>>24499857
ANGLO MATERIALISM VS CONTINENTAL IDEALISM

>>24502727
My understanding is Dante was always neglected by his country man (I get this from Conversations with Goethe). To an extent this is true for Shakespeare--at least the cult began with the appreciation of foreigners, especially Germans
None of those French figures listed have attracted international cults of appreciation (how many people do you think, specifically learn French to read Ronsard or Racine?)

>>24500092
what a Magus

>>24500855
Lmao didn't catch that, my bad

>>24502759
Shakespeare is still widely read in school—at least in reasonably good ones. A teen receiving an equally solid education in Germany or Italy will only lightly touch upon Dante or Goethe, because they spend more time on a large array of other authors less well known internationally—Schiller, Rilke, Mann, Hesse, Kafka to mention a few. It is even more extreme in Italy, since much time is devoted to the classics—at a liceo classico, a child might receive something like five hours of Latin per week compared to four of Italian—and they must then work through Boccaccio, Petrarch, and Dante, before skipping ahead to Manzoni, Pirandello, Leopardi, and others, not to mention contemporary stuff such as Italo Calvino and Umberto Eco. As a result, even among the educated, Dante remains a remote, distant figure. By contrast, Shakespeare does retain a far more immediate cultural presence in England, in my opinion.

You're quite right that many are unfamiliar with the French classics, though in my view this owes more to the post-war French intelligensia which ignored them and preferred modern figures such as Proust, Baudelaire, Rimbaud, Sartre, and the like. These writers in turn exerted considerable influence over foreign authors who spent time in France—beginning with Oscar Wilde, and later Hemingway, Beckett, Joyce, Nabokov, Miller, Burroughs, and, I believe, the Fitzgeralds. There's a huge disparity between what is a “French classic” at home and how that canon is perceived abroad. The triad I mentioned is by far the most influential and representative one, to the point it's customary for French people to call their language “la langue de Molière”, the same periphrasis they use to call English “la langue de Shakespeare” or German “la langue de Goethe” so there's a definitive equivalent at least from their point of view.

>>24499178 (OP)
Two features of the Eddic line — the variations in the length of the line and its free rhythm — undoubtedly served to recommend the Eddic metres to Wagner as a musician. In A Communication to my Friends he praises this method of versification “which, in keeping with true speech inflections, can be adapted to suit the most natural and lively rhythms; which is at all times readily capable of the most infinitely varied expression …” This is obviously a musician speaking.

When Brunnhilde argues with her master in Die Walküre II.ii, Wotan makes an angry attempt to silence her:

Was bist du, als meines Willens
blind wählende Kür?—

As Wagner argued at length in Oper und Drama, the virtue of Stabreim is its ability to establish through phonology associations or antitheses between particular words and concepts. (Stabreim entails a use of language akin to music in so far as it allows the word to derive meaning from its place in a phonetic pattern rather as the musical note derives meaning from its place in a tonic pattern.) It is a verse form which, in Wagner's hands, demands that particular attention be paid not only to each word but also to each root-syllable. By means of the Stabreim, Wotan's words to his rebellious daughter here bring to a focal point certain crucial issues of the drama.
The phrasing and rhetoric of Wotan's question echo Brunnhilde's earlier plea:

wer—bin ich,
wär'ich dein Wille nicht?

The effect is epic, the language abstract. The modernists paid heed: T. S. Eliot quotes the Rhinemaidens in The Waste Land, and Joyce has them swim in the river of Finnegans Wake.

O heilige Schmach! — O righteous shame!
O schmählicher Harm! — O shamefulsorrow!
Götternoth! — Gods’ distress!
Götternoth! — Gods’ distress!
Endloser Grimm! — Infinite rage!
Ewiger Gram! — Eternal grief!
Der Traurigste bin ich von Allen! — I am the saddest of all living things!

When our ears detect consonant patterns—say, “heilig” (“holy/righteous”) and “Harm” (“sorrow”)—we recognize a bond between seemingly opposed emotions.

>Anyone who has not read the text carefully - a clever, profound text that deliberately uses the alliterative scheme, which deserves the highest respect and not the mockery of those who do not want to think about operas - who has not read the text carefully and understood it word for word, so to speak, in the performances of the RING he will do what only the Rhine daughters are allowed to do, he will 'swim'.
- Joachim Kaiser

germans trying to sneak shit like wagner in there is so funny to me

>>24502933
what is it like being congenitally deaf?

>>24502411
You're this anon clearly >>24502336 since you're acting as if Wagner were this unknown figure, and by reading to me first line of his Wikipedia page I somehow take back my commments, BTFO'd forever.
As for your comment.
>h-he's a musical genius and innovator!
What you said could be applied to, Verdi, Berliosz. Nothing of substance. Impressive how self-proclaimed aesthete, Wagnerian high-taste critics are so inexpressive with words.
>>24502394
>so you're now saying you weren't being serious
That's what you claimed you literal sperg. >>24502352
I guess Richard Wanker will never stop being a meme, picrel. It attracts the same type of mystic-autist as the German Idealism threads. A secular prophet for the autistic mind

Is Wagner enjoyable even if you only read his librettos and maybe listen to the music composed for the operas afterward? Or at least I have no idea where one is supposed to see well-produced opera that isn't just some retard with a chip on his shoulder trying to subvert and mock it with regietheater.

>>24503639
Only a moron or deranged person would equate Wagner with Verdi and Berlioz. There are plenty of sources referenced in this thread (such as the opinion of Nietzsche and Baudelaire (who didn't even know Wagner's best work)) if you were interested in learning, but it seems you'd prefer wallowing in ignorance and vulgar presumptuousness, and this strange rage which can only come from a feeling of inferiority. People like you, who seemingly exist only to waste other people's time, shouldn't be allowed to talk about culture.

>>24503656
Yes. It's good in fragments and as a whole

>>24503639
Wagner was the most important, influential, and highly esteemed musician in the world from around 1860 to 1910. Please read at least one of Schoenberg's textbooks or essays before making such retarded and uninformed comments about music.

bump

>>24503639
NTA but comparing Wagner to Verdi and Berlioz as if they were equals shows you are absolutely clueless.

>>24505901
I did not say they were equals, your reading comprehension is laughable.
Not bumping this shit thread no matter how much you seethe (kek)

>>24499178 (OP)
get yourself tested for mental retardation the next time you see a doctor.

>>24506206
get yourself tested for mental retardation the next time you see a doctor.

>>24507443
You're a nigger inept for letters. Stick to music and cumming over Wagner's unrelenting nationalism, I wouldn't be surprised if you were some brown Germanophile thirdie. While actual contemporary composers disavow Wagner.

>>24507847
as a matter of fact I am completing a degree in composition at a conservatory right now. Film music is heavily indebted to the works, techniques, and theories of Wagner and I don't understand why you feel the need to tear down his art and see it removed from history.

>>24507847
>Wagner's unrelenting nationalism
Not even true lol
>While actual contemporary composers disavow Wagner.
Insofar as they exist, no composer has ever disavowed Wagner
You are frothing at the mouth, it's embarrassing. Why does greatness so offend you?

>>24499716
>Reddit spacing
>No capitalization
>Uses period where a semicolon would have been more appropriate
Good morning saar.

>>24499286
Là, tout n'est qu'ordre et beauté,
Luxe, Calme et Volupté

>>24507847
>While actual contemporary composers disavow Wagner.
Thank you for revealing your complete lack of musical knowledge, kek.

>>24507913
Will you be more Bernard Hermann or Max Steiner if you go the way of creating scores?

>>24507978
probably Bernard Hermann if I find employment composing film scores but I'll most likely end up as a music teacher in some random rural town.

>>24507946
>>24507921
I know one composer who studied in Germany. The vanguard of the 20th century, many of them German, vocally disliked Wagner.
You listen to Wagner's high art through Spotify, and remain a brown Germanophile cumming to the Deutschlandlied's stanzas (added gunshots as background arrangements, outside in the favela)

>>24499290
>>24499294
>>24502279
this

>>24507913
Film music has always been loud, garish, overproduced, technological garbage and the very first symptom of the Decline of the West. Fuck Wagner, fuck Gustav Holst, fuck Saint-Saëns, and fuck jazz. Music has been in a constant decline since Beethoven.

>>24499570
Based. Keep dabbing on these fools.

>>24500875
you can almost smell the gayness radiating from this sickeningly francophilic post

>>24499761
Das Rheingold 1618-1806
Die Walkure 1806-1918
Siegfried 1918-1933
Gotterdammerung 1933-TBD
Rheinmadens: Christendom and the First Reich
The Ring: Hegemony over Europe
Wotan: The spirit of Prussia and the Junkers
Loge: Realpolitik
Nothung: militarism
Brünhilde: the nation of Germany
Siegmund: the Second Reich
Hunding: France
Siegfried: Adolf Hitler and Third Reich
Nibellungens: Jews/Anglo-Americans
Erda: the land and inhabitants of Germany
Fricka: Traditional Lutheran Society, sentimental cautiousness

>>24508954
thanks for confirming you're a retard who knows nothing about classical music

>>24510386
>>24510540
>goes back to the thread an hour later to seethe again
Spergner is at it again!

>>24510543
I'm actually this anon: >>24507913

everything you've said has been either baseless or purely subjective so far.

>>24502727
>has been read in school pretty much non-stop since the sixteenth century
Do you have any examples of that? I would be surprised to see any sort of vernacular literature being taught in schools before 18th, even 19th century.