According to Chomsky what are the limits of "acceptable" discussion?

>>24503443 (OP)
to get to the other bar obviously

Sounds like criticism of the system is off limits.

>>24503445
Criticism of the system is fine. Suggesting an alternative is not.

making a student smarter is boring

>>24503443 (OP)
how can someone write this and then support the very system that has optimized it beyond the wildest despotic dreams

>>24503443 (OP)
Vaxx skepticism

>>24503443 (OP)
If it's liberal

>>24503443 (OP)
I love Chomsky for the intelligent insights like this he made, but I also simply view him as unconsciously having become a hypocrite, one of the types falling to precisely this type of media/corporate/political control of the mainstream zeitgeist and what’s the acceptable boundaries of discourse and thought. Of course it’s a big one, the big issue that’s inevitably going to get brought up:
>>24503462
>>24503506
And I exactly agree. Namely, for all of Chomsky’s insights and his astuteness, he fell for the COVID authoritarianism. And, to be far, it was a newer, more high-tech, simultaneously subtle yet practically all-pervasive form of authoritarianism.
They worked on and pushed very basic buttons, deep-seated programming, especially in much of the Western liberal world. Trust of science and the medical and pharmaceutical industries, for instance. Desire to do good for oneself and others, prevent unnecessary harm and death in a way that, more or less, was easy enough to do (superficially), at least reasonably doable. (Quarantining/schools changing to online school, masks, vaxxing up.) There was no obvious goosestepping, no explicit genocidal intent, no Mussolinian or Hitlerian or Stalinist regime. In fact it was notably international, almost entirely global scale (although some players like some minor African states, for instance, regarded generally as in a weaker position on the world stage, did go against it notably). They tried to paint it as something that transcended local petty partisan politics, even any one nation-state - from China to France to the U.S. and Canada to New Zealand and Australia to whoever the fuck, many major states basically were having a similar coordinated response to the pandemic, some more or less extreme. Making it seem like, “Oh, yeah, this isn’t political, the governments are actually scared of the fatality and health risks of this disease and they’re taking entirely practical measurements to mitigate it.” In a surface level.

However, what this all pointed to was, again, simply a newer, more high-tech, subtler yet also all-encompassing of totalitarianism. A softer, almost “diet” version of it, yet just as, if not more lethal. They coordinatedly rolled out the social media censorship of dissenting views on Big Tech platforms, and doctors and nurses who spoke out against mainstream “wisdom” about the pandemic and response to it vehemently enough risked losing their medical license, or being viciously attacked by the MSM and the MSM-brainwashed drones.

>>24505082
>>24505082
They had the whole thing of “debunking far-right disinformation, misinformation, harmful conspiracy theories and psy-ops” going on for some years before this, too, I mean particularly in the Western liberal nations, and a more paranoid and conspiratorial person might see it as deliberately leading up to such an event, to pre-emptively prime the minds of the populace to belittle and attack those “conspiracy theorists” and trust their governments, or even the W.H.O. in this case, a supragovernmental/nongovernmental organization which was essentially dictating policy in many nations, and even dictating what major corporations did, including the Big Tech platforms like YouTube, Instagram, Reddit, Facebook.
There was a period where even doctors, nurses, embalmers or coroners or undertakers going online, to make a video on YouTube for instance, dissenting from the pandemic response policies, would have their videos or content very shortly taken down. On YouTube what showed up was a message saying something like, “This video has been removed for giving disinformation on COVID-19, by the guidance of the WHO.” It was surreal and somewhat frightening to see it in real time.

https://blog.youtube/news-and-events/managing-harmful-vaccine-content-youtube/

Now keep in mind, I’m suggesting something like what we might call neo-fascism. You can object, “They’re a private platform, they can host or refuse to host whatever content they like! It’s not a free speech or First Amendment issue!” First, in the U.S. there actually were things like White House and DHS coordination with several of these big social media platforms, encouraging them to remove “harmful far-right disinformation/misinformation/conspiracy theories” and the like, under Biden, which was treading dangerously close to breaking to the spirit of law.
Second, even aside from that, there can still be practical threats to our liberties or quality of life, even apart from whether they were following the letter of the law (Jesuitically and casuistically). A nongovernmental organization influencing what major corporations, which host the speech of millions to billions of people, are heavily involved with the spread of information and news across the Internet, should do. One classic definition of fascism was the merger of state and corporate power. We had some neo-version of it to an extent, with the government encouraging Big Tech platforms to censor speech for them which they themselves as the govt couldn’t (directly) do, then with this added twist of an NGO, the W.H.O., gaining a massive semi-official power which transcended any one nation but instead influenced many. It was almost a ceding of sovereignty, and not very “democratic”: so you could also call it approaching technocracy, or rule by (allegedly) qualified technical or scientific experts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murthy_v._Missouri

>>24503443 (OP)
Real answers:
Ass vs tits
Milky Way vs Hershey's
Conkey-Cola vs Bepis
4tran vs Gayddit
Pro-crapitalist conservatism (pro-oil, pro-big corpos, pro-Israel) vs social and economic liberalism (but no commieshit or Nazbol)
Tacos vs ramen
Genshit Impact vs Gookshit Archive
Rap music vs pop music (but no Norwegian black metal - that's a dog whistle for uhhhhh forbidden stuff)

>>24503449
>>24505145
Also, as for the “diet” totalitarianism, it still became rather heavy-handed and obviously police-state-like at times. You had German authorities raiding the house of a German doctor speaking out against the mRNA injections, you had people in the U.K. being arrested or having police visits to their house for things like trying to organize anti-lockdown protests on Facebook while there were stay-at-home orders, and you had things like this Australian cop in Melbourne choking out and detaining a woman for being in public without a mask. As shown in the last picture.

https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/australia/victoria-police-officer-in-viral-choking-arrest-video-cleared-after-internal-investigation/news-story/53bc9726db12ceb9063876f46a213203
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8613253/Cop-CHOKES-woman-refused-wear-face-mask-arrest-streets-Melbourne.html

Funny cuz it’s true.

Also, Event 201:
https://centerforhealthsecurity.org/our-work/tabletop-exercises/event-201-pandemic-tabletop-exercise

Also re: merger of corporate and state power.
The Department of Defense (DoD) gave $1.74 billion dollars to Moderna for the rollout of the vaccine.
https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/3109705/dod-awards-174-billion-agreement-to-moderna-inc-to-secure-over-65-million-doses/

Chomsky got old and too comfortable. He was used to being a progressive leftist, and hence making (admittedly often reasonable) criticisms of things like right-wingers and their policies, entities like the Republican Party, the neocons and interventionists/war-hawks or those with views like neoconservatism. The MSM, Internet, education system essentially then ran a psyop to lump all dissenters, conspiracy theorists, conservatives, whatever, with basically being such “evil right-wingers who’ve been proven WRONG throughout all of history, essentially throwing their lot in with other failed entities like the Confederates or Nazis.” So to him it seemed like a layup. To describe leftism in a deliberately very simple and charitable way, you could say they want to actively do the most good for as many people as they can, typically support more active deliberate interventions to do this (as opposed to a more libertarian approach of “the free-market can fix this”), and have an especial focus on helping the oppressed or victimized or underclass status. So the Covid response pushed buttons like these. For instance, guilttripping people about how the elderly, immunocompromised, disabled or poorer were at greater risk of dying or being harmed from COVID-19, and so not masking or quarantining and even vaccinating was “KILLING GRANNY AND THE CANCER PATIENTS.” I guess to Chomsky, it was just a case of saying, “Eh, fuck these selfish right-wingers! Caring too much about their ‘bodily autonomy’, and harming the marginalized and immunocompromised!”

>>24503449
and that's why his ilk will never get anywhere.

>>24505155
thank you. I kneel.

>>24503443 (OP)
Anything and everything so long as YOU DON'T ACCUSE POL POTT OF GENOCIDE. I AM NOT KIDDING.

>>24505175
>Chomsky got old and too comfortable
that's basically because the "right" has no actual institutional power, and the "left" knows this but chooses to parrot the opposite in order to maintain an academic hegemony over the rest of the population. for someone so hellbent on talking about "Manufactured consent" the "left" loves to manufacture a bit of their own because losing power would end up turning the world into a global theocracy and we can't have that.

>>24505371
Pol Pot had some reasonable ideas and I say this as someone on the right. its what he did with those ideas that was the problem. the intellectuals, the urban bourgeoisie, and sexual promiscuity are all pertinent issues, even more so now than then and especially in the "west", so lets not "throw the baby out with the bathwater" he was more right than he was wrong despite being a pinko.

>>24503449
Your "alternative system" is killing non-whites, non-straights, and non-Christians.

>It's a conspiracy why this isn't acceptable!

>>24503443 (OP)
didn't Foucault build a genealogy of discourse over time in "The Order Of Things"?

>>24505386
not our problem. fix your own.

>>24505382
retard take and retard misuse of the word pinko

>>24505396
good thing retards have better chances of reproducing than you do.

>>24503443 (OP)
What does Chomsky prove he can know?
FOUC-AULT FOU-CAULT
What morality does Chomsky have for the class?
FOUC-AULT FOU-CAULT
FOUC-AULT FOU-CAULT
TWO NIL
TWO NIL
WE DRANK ALL YOUR ORANGE JUICE

>>24505376
The right has heaps of institutional power. They're the majority in both the US senate and house of representatives. They ideologically dominate the supreme court and have done so since the 1970s. The military and police force also lean right, there are plenty of right wing think tanks, right wing media outlets, right wing lobbyists, religious institutions, and so on.
By institutional power you really mean academia and education which are ultimately controllable by the right via restricted funding, forced curriculum changes, or cancel culture. It's basically irrelevant. Proof of this is just how moderate, economically speaking, leftist discourse has become, despite the fact most significant leftists of the 20th century were highly critical of capitalism, Chomsky included.

>>24503443 (OP)
mega ironic considering this absolutely scathing, scorch early article that eviscerates chomskkky

>Ultimately, the average conspiracy theorist has a better grasp of how the world works than the average liberal. Even the most outlandish “conspiracy theory” in existence—that people like George W. Bush and Queen Elizabeth are shape-shifting, extra-dimensional reptilians—is closer to the truth than what liberals believe. The reality is that the ruling class and its public servants really do have a parasitic and predatory relationship to the vast majority of humanity; if anyone should be laughed at and publicly excoriated for their wacky ideas, it’s those who think Hillary is su abuela and Barack Obama is a nice guy who would enjoy hanging out with them. When it comes to conspiracy theories, Noam Chomsky’s ideas comfort power and Michael Parenti’s ideas expose it.


https://www.greanvillepost.com/2020/06/03/the-mainstream-and-the-margins-noam-chomsky-vs-michael-parenti/

>>24505440
This "right" you speak of is not what you think it is. Also, don't conflate the status quo with right wing thought. They're not the same. The state operates on pragmatism not ideology.

>>24505447
>rightoid global capitalists and militarists aren't rightists
please step in to the gas chamber

>>24505454
You lost

>>24505454
>le heckin milquetoast centrist liberalism is right wing!
You know nothing of actual right wing thought. Scram.

>>24505465
>militant global plutocrat imperialism is milquetoast centrist liberalism!
you are a fucking retard

>>24505468
god I'm sprouting an erection now. keep going so I can ejaculate.

>>24505473

>>24505475
you're a woman as far as I'm concerned

>>24505476
shut up retard

>>24503443 (OP)
Well, he's allowed to talk, you're allowed to preach openly for communist revolution in the streets, you're allowed to blaspheme Christ and defame all of the heroes of the nation and to openly advocate for the murder of the nation's founding stock, and their displacement and deracination, for pedophiles and sodomites and child mutilation. In fact the State funds most of these advocacies--or did until this year.

Hmm. What is it that you're not allowed to discuss?

>>24503443 (OP)
define acceptable. gonna guess you fucking can't without being insanely relative.

>>24505523
you too, nigger.

whatever the zeitgeist happens to be

>>24505386
Yes, I am a far right racist fascist, just like Chomsky.

>>24505155
>economic liberalism (but no commieshit or Nazbol)
Commies reject economic Liberalism and NazBol are just grifters.
>(but no Norwegian black metal - that's a dog whistle for uhhhhh forbidden stuff)
Only if you're retarded.

>>24506207
Finnish and Canadian black metal is superior anyways

>>24503443 (OP)
Intelligible discussion is all that matters. Calling tranny trannies is intelligible.

>>24506210
For me it's the newer Belgian and Dungeon synth

>>24505523
you got rekt. just take it instead of being a bitch

>>24505082
>They tried to paint it as something that transcended local petty partisan politics
This is a nitpick, but no, they didn't. They failed to sell the vax to conservatives here in America, to the point that it felt intentional. Like every vax ad the government paid for had rainbow haired mutants covered in piercings talking down to the viewer. How do you explain such a monumental fuckup in messaging?

>>24505386
>Killing non-whites isnt acceptable
Why not?

>>24507278
Actually, very fair nitpicking, and in practice that ended up being very true. I actually contradicted myself in my posts on that, because later I suggested how the Covid-19 response social-programming pushed especially on liberal/progressive/leftist buttons. (For “buttons”, insert programmed beliefs and attitudes in the masses which can be almost automatically exploited by the propagandists.)
What I mean is, it’s more like The System at least TRIED for this. For instance, even Trump was praising Operation Warp Speed, and in fact enabled it, praised the vaccines, and urged everyone and his supporters to get it. But the irony was the people who were hardcore Trump supporters, or even more moderate ones, tended towards precisely being very skeptical of the mainstream media, academic and scientific establishments, and liberal pieties, so even they were principled and suspicious enough to just disregard that from Trump. (Booing from supporters at his rallies or speeches when he urged the vaccine, for instance.)
But yes in practice, it was tied up more with the whole ethos of liberalism and social progressivism. And another thing I meant, is at the same time, they tried to CLAIM it was not political, or transcended politics, and criticized, attacked, mocked and defamed opponents of their policies as “cynically politicizing a pandemic, which shouldn’t be politicized.” So I mean even the propaganda was trying to do that, and claim it wasn’t propaganda.

>>24503443 (OP)
remember when people cared about xbox vs playstation?

>>24503443 (OP)
Ah, yeesss! And to have millions of options for interpretations and worldviews won't cause me to go mad with distress of uncertainty. Of course, Noam. No options-paralysis here. Is all consensus just some artificial construct of some Kabaal conspiracy. To make me complacent and never inquisitive. Is someone exploiting me because I myself ascribe ideas that are rather popular.

A related practice done at Trinity College in the late 17th century.

>allow free discussion
>most people are dim hylics anyway and wont get it

>itt: undiagnosed schizophrenia

>>24503443 (OP)
Private property, capitalism, the state and hierarchical institutions in general I would assume

>>24507312
>they tried to CLAIM it was not political, or transcended politics
This was true for the issue itself (The Pandemic and the civil response necessary to limit it's spread) the problem was more so in the fact that whether or not to even believe that there was a pandemic in the first place was so tied up in rhetoric (imo due to the spectauclar (and then increasingly populist) nature of American political discourse).
>So I mean even the propaganda was trying to do that, and claim it wasn’t propaganda.
Who was it that politiczed the pandemic in the first place? Right wing politicians (many of them associates of the current potus such as Bannon) and early as January of that year. Although that is not to say that the the left help didn't drag us even further down the hell of propagandizing a pandemic. Neither popular side was any less guilty.

>>24503443 (OP)
That guy should have died 15 years ago before he could ruin his legacy. He went from writing a forward about the importance of free speech in a book about holocaust denial to saying he was wrong to do so and the government should censor speech in online platforms.

Sure, he was always biased as hell but at least anyone with half a mind could locate where he was coming from and respect that his words were based on principle. What a fall from grace.

>>24510542
Chomsky has been ideologically confused from the very beginning and his later books are just him plagarizing Fisher and Debord

>>24503443 (OP)
Criticism of jewish power, which some commenters above describe as criticism of "the system."