I came to the conclusion that i'm not against all natalism but only against bad natalism and pro good natalism ie against bad parents/parenting and for good parents/parenting in general. If you're antinatalist it means you're more suited for parenting much better than those who don't put a second though to it.
Reminder that anti-natalists are likely to be mentally ill and have a personality disorder
>>24507820This doesn't mean that anti-natalist arguments can be dismissed solely due to this fact (inb4 crying about ad hom); it does however add context to why autists make these threads and are completely unable to understand why they are wrong. It also has direct implications regarding Benatar's quality of life argument (i.e. anti-natalists are stuck in a rigid ideological system as a cope for to sustain their defective worldview).
Say you're designing a logo and you want to market test for the most appealing shade of red. Would you want most of those in your sample population to suffer from protanopia?
>>24507820Anti-natalists are at a complete poverty when it comes to weighing quality of life. Their defective nature simply precludes them from accepting any rationalization outside of their own self-indoctrination. They don't necessarily mean to be disingenuous because such is simply written into their nature.
Also note that the more you talk to them the more you'll realize a sick fascination with harm, violence, and death. These people don't want to reduce harm, they want to justify their resentment and spread their misery.
>>24507820>>24507822>>24507826Read what i wrote you spamming faggot.
Their argument:
>antinatalists central claim is that life is harm
>they argue that you have to be alive to feel pleasure and stress this isn't guaranteed
>they argue that if you're not alive you are guaranteed not to suffer/harm
>[no guarantee of pleasure, risk of suffering/harm, therefore nonexistence is best = basic thread of argument]
>note: they also like to being up that the fact you don't have a choice in coming into existence
>they conclude that not reproducing and ending life is the optimal outcome to reduce harm
Why they're refuted:
>antinatalists can't validate their central claim as they cannot weigh the total value of life in aggregate (the best they can do is assert individual bad things happen)
>[this is all the refutation that is needed: they cannot draw logic, let alone an extreme conclusion, from a central claim they are unable to prove; simple as--but lets go on to point out their bad logic]
>they place the weight of guaranteed outcomes on detractors but they don't have prescience to foresee the outcome/value of individual lives (let alone the aggregate of all life which they are assuming) but...
>antinatalists are attempting to prove their conclusion and thereby the onus is on them produce a stable logic based on a proven premise
>however, any single example of value in life automatically contravenes their premise and contradicts the logic they attempt to assert
>[antinatalists are generally filtered by this because they still affirm their premise even though reason has been given to reject it]
>we may come to the idea of suicide and ending life (which is logically coherent with their outlook while showing their values are actually inconsistent)
>suicide automatically means an end to suffering, any harm caused doesn't exist for the victim (aside, the absence of existence means you can't even weigh such anyway)
>denial of suicide is an affirmation that value exists in life (or else why not? note that they won't even admit that suffering is short relative to continued existence, they really want to avoid clearly weighing anything)
>if the antinatalist says it affects others a consistent logic follows that they kill them as well (the sooner the better in fact--stop them from reproducing which puts an end to countless future lives)
>alas, the anti-natalist will assert their original logic no longer applies once they are alive (again, affirming the value of existing and demonstrating their logic can actually be harmful)
>the last bastion is they HAD no choice to exist (conveniently it doesn't matter that they have one now) but again there are plenty of examples of lives worth living
>>24507828triggered his reflex with the bait cover
>Benatar/interviewer go for a walk in the park
>surrounded by lovers and families enjoying a nice sunny day
>interviewer forwards the idea that life can be improved
>Benatar raises his voice and starts sperging that life never improves (objectively false by the way)
>Benatar literally starts crying: "life is unacceptable"
>interviewer is taken aback by his outburst and at a loss for words (Benatar is inconsolable)
Benatar is a mentally unstable weasel so it's no wonder he mostly avoids interviews. On top of that he admits that his ideas are damaging while using the excuse that his work is academic and only meant for those that seek it out (note that these people are likely to have personality disorders and mental illness). Benatar objectively creates suffering and given that he's under the delusion that his work is toward the opposite: he's delusional and irrational.
This is the figurehead of anti-natalism. A sniffling sad sack who can't even hold it together in a park on a sunny summer afternoon and finish an interview without having a nervous breakdown. Remember this the next time this loser makes another one of his "I CAN'T BREED" threads as if it's anyone else's problem but his own. Remember this the next time one of these losers starts sperging delusions about how he really cares about suffering when the reality is anti-natalists are just depressive headcases attempting to intellectualize their pathetic nature while mentally masturbating about their delusions all because absolutely no one wants to fuck them.
>>24507814 (OP)I want nihilists to perk up and stop being tempted to despair. I want that for Christmas. Can some of you give that to me soon? Please?
Guys. Guys can we just stop a second? Yes. It's me. Well, one of us. I've made probably 40% of the antinatalist threads on /lit/ in the last 3 or so years. Yes I'm the guy who got "buck broken" by that study and wrote a massive reddit response to it and even emailed the author. I am so deeply entwined in antinatalism that the last few weeks I've been consumed by the drama that Bartkus and his bombing has caused between the efilists, Amanda, Gary, and that weird guy "no efilism" channel. Steve Godfrey I think his name is. He blocked me because I called him out for being a fucking angry weirdo and calling Karim akerma (of all people!) a cunt. And now what do we have this weirdo Norwegian guy what's is name Matti hayry trying reinvent himself as antinatalisms consent arguments founder. And the Marzipan nonsense? Fuck this shit is bizarre. I even paid actual money to subscribe to substack so that I could read a Google translate version of am interview David benatar did in catalan. I'm deep in this rabbit hole I don't know how to get out. Guy we gotta stop. Alright I do a fat line of ket I open up lit and its just the same fuckig thread with like the same 4 people and this thread is like a ditto of the other 297 before it. This has all just been so crazy man. I want to go back to Julio carbrera and smoke cigarettes and heroin in my garage and watch efil blaise videos. And yeah he was problematic. So what. The older inget the more I self reflect the more I see I am just a very seriously mentally unwell person. I don't like this world. I don't like being a human body. I have serious issues, to the point of moral outrage and just deserts when it comes to my infliction of my being in this world, as this body. I dunno where I'm going here Guys I just want antinatalism to be antinatalism again. Not this crazy whatever ivf clinic bombing retard study debate fedora shit it is now. I just don't want anyone to suffer like I have. I don't want my life, for anyone else. That's the root of antinatalism for me guys it's empathy. And I don't know what to do about all the animals man. I mean its horrific. But how do you stop it? With unimaginable violence? I'm talking about the natural world the vegan thing is a no brainer. Maybe I just need to turn my empathy switch off. Have no kidd if my own die quietly and hope that's the end. I hate this world, I regret my own birth so much, being this body, it's horrific. Oh just kill yourself? It will come but realize this is not a solution. Was the dark night a bad movie? Would the solution be to have some guy blast an ar15 round in your face? No.
Of course just while I typed this like 60 babies were born. It's a tsunami. Mostly brown as well. Yeah I'm racist.
>>24507828>OP spams near-identical threads with the same exact image of the Benatar book>calls others spamming faggotsYou're just reaping what you sow lmao. Btw, the antisymmetry argument is still retarded and Cabrera rightfully demolished it. If you're going to be an antinatalist, at least be a coherent one. Even this backsliding you're doing, going from universal antinatalism to a particularized antinatalism, just shows that Benatar's analytic framework provides a weak foundation for the philosophy.
>>24507835>On top of that he admits that his ideas are damaging while using the excuse that his work is academic and only meant for those that seek it out (note that these people are likely to have personality disorders and mental illness). Benatar objectively creates suffering and given that he's under the delusion that his work is toward the opposite: he's delusional and irrational.Exactly this. If the imperative to reduce suffering is so great that it requires the end of human life, how can you justify the writing of a book that, by your own admission, causes suffering? If Benatar was consistent, he'd stop shilling his ideas to reduce harm. Antinatalism has already caused at least one known suicide (on top of the multiple proto-antinatalist pessimistic philosophers who took their own life), who knows how much more suffering the propagation of these ideas might cause?
>>24508217>BartkusThere's a good chance that guy was posting in these threads. Stop endorsing evil ideologies.
https://youtu.be/yRe4Y_vg174
>>24507814 (OP)This is bullshit and not antinatalism. Fuck you, OP.
