Do you have to be a faggot to write great literature?

>Mishima
faggot
>Shakespeare
half-faggot
>Whitman
faggot
>Wilde
faggot
>DH Lawrence
would've been a faggot if he knew what faggotry was
>Eliot
closet faggot
>Joyce
would've been a faggot if he wasn't Catholic
>Forster
faggot
>Woolf
female half-faggot
>Proust
gigafaggot
>Genet
also gigafaggot
>Milton
closetfaggot
>Hemingway
gigaclosetfaggot

Is it even possible to contribute anything if you're straight? Do I have to start sucking cock now?

The greatest writers there are not fags.

>OP
faggot

>>24517553
Does this mean I'm going to be a great writer

>>24517562
>>24517551

>>24517551
Shakespeare was absolutely at least half-faggot, have you even read the sonnets

>>24517576
>Shakespeare
>Great writer

You either have to be a fag, a pedo or a cuck

>>24517535 (OP)
Nah no need to change who you are. But you should at least market to us. Please make sure your writing includes vivid descriptions of male characters and their physical characteristics. Don’t be afraid to talk about size as we put it in our dating profiles except those who are modest and wait to talk about it on their first date.

For a lot of us the real world falls short of our expectations so we sublimate our desires into literature.

>>24517637
what are the greatest cuck writers?

>>24517562
A small price to pay for salvation.
Being gay is not illegal anymore.

>>24517535 (OP)
>Do I have to start sucking cock now?
No. Most of those writers were not bottom fags, but fucked teenage boys.

>>24517933
Top fags are even gayer because they could get anal "sex" from women but they decided to fuck a guy instead.

>>24517535 (OP)
Mishima wasn't gay and I wish people would stop pretending he was

>>24517535 (OP)
Yes. I believe in you OP, get your bussy blown out and write the next generational masterpiece.

>>24517618
That Sir Francis Bacon to you, sir.

>>24517983
lol no

>>24517948
Here's him describing the first time he ever whacked off -- to an image of St. Sebastian
>The arrows have eaten into the tense, fragrant, youthful flesh and are about to consume his body from within with flames of supreme agony and ecstasy. But there is no flowing blood, nor yet the host of arrows seen in other pictures of Sebastian’s martyrdom. Instead, two lone arrows cast their tranquil and graceful shadows upon the smoothness of his skin, like the shadows of a bough falling upon a marble stairway.
>But all these observations and interpretations came later.
>That day, the instant I looked upon the picture, my entire being trembled with some pagan joy. My blood soared up; my loins swelled as though in wrath. The monstrous part of me that was on the point of bursting awaited my use of it with unprecedented ardor, upbraiding me for my ignorance, panting indignantly.
>My hands, completely unconsciously, began a motion they had never before been taught. I felt a secret, radiant something rise swift-footed to the attack from inside me.
>Suddenly it burst forth, bringing with it a blinding intoxication.

>>24517535 (OP)
>>Mishima
>faggot

How did he become the poster boy for lit gays? It was debunked as government propaganda decades ago.

>>24518057
How do you debunk this >>24518049

>>24518049
no proof its autobiographical

The best writers would probably be bisexual, right? Able to understand both the male perspective on women, and the female perspective on men. Able to encompass the human condition in its entirety, or close to it.

>>24518068
It's from Confessions of a Mask, a fictitious novel. Behold:
>Confessions of a Mask (仮面の告白, Kamen no Kokuhaku) is the second novel by Japanese author Yukio Mishima. First published on 5 July 1949 by Kawade Shobō,[1][2] it launched him to national fame though he was only in his early twenties.[3] Some have posited that Mishima's similarities to the main character of the novel come from the character acting as a stand-in for Mishima's own autobiographical story.

It's like those theater girls that draw manga art of their two favorite male characters kissing. They fail to see differences in fiction and a reality and start transposing gay sex onto everything. You can write about gay people without being gay, and at one point it was considered novel.

>>24518070
It's literally fiction. There's one quote by a supposed former associate of Mishima's that said everyone there was gay, but he was exposed as a government plant and was actually kicked out of the Shield Society during initiation. It's not clear whether they knew he was a plant then, or if he became a saboteur afterward.

>>24517936
That's why they choose boys over guys I guess

Read me book, lads

To the straight Mishima devotees,
I remember Gore Vidal's essay on Mishima ended with "he was a great guy to go cruising with."

I don't think he was talking about ships.

>>24517657
Céline and Joyce

>>24518085
>Fukushima letters
>Went to gay bars and clubs
>Hung out with drag queens
>Homoeroticism constant throughout almost all his works
uh yeah ok man lol

>>24518126
Also F Scott Fitzgerald

>>24518128
Can you post what you're talking about? The second claim I recall from the government plant, but the rest I've never heard of. That last point is just your interpolation. There's no way to know whether it's coming from you or from him. Again, you're that theater kid doodling dicks in the corner calling everyone else gay.

>>24517535 (OP)
Would you guys read this?

And the author of the Fukushima letters was the plant lmfao

That's where the government's conspiracy against the man comes from.

>>24517535 (OP)
Lawrence definitely knew what faggots were. He was friends with E.M. Forster for Christ's sake.

>>24517535 (OP)
>Mishima wasn't gay!
I guess he really loved BWC in a totally heterosexual way, huh?

>>24518076
>bisexual
>men
the term bisexual only applies to women.(all of them are.)

>>24517535 (OP)
Not necessarily

>>24517535 (OP)
I would venture a guess that there are far more great writers who were practically asexual than there are which liked getting fucked in the ass. Also calling Joyce, Eliot, Hemingway, and Milton closeted is pretty insane, just total amateur psychoanalysis there.

>>24518082
>Mishima's story The Cigarette (煙草, Tabako), published in 1946, describes a homosexual love he felt at school and being teased from members of the school's rugby union club because he belonged to the literary society.
>The Cigarette was published in the new literary magazine Humanity (人間, Ningen), followed by The Middle Ages in December 1946.[112] The Middle Ages is set in Japan's historical Muromachi Period and explores the motif of shudō (man-boy love) against a backdrop of the death of the ninth Ashikaga shogun... This elevated writing style and the homosexual motif suggest the germ of Mishima's later aesthetics.
>Writing to editor Sakamoto Kazuki, Mishima declared: "This next novel will be my first I-novel ever; of course, it won't be an I-novel of the Literary Establishment sort, but it will be an attempt to vivisect myself in which I will turn on myself the blade of psychological analysis that I have honed for the hypothetical figure so far. I will aim for as much scientific accuracy as I can; I will try to be Baudelaire's so-called 'victim and executioner.'"
>While working on his novel Forbidden Colors, Mishima visited gay bars in Japan...
Jirō Fukushima published a memoir containing letters from Mishima claiming that the two were gay lovers. Here's a picture of Mishima with Akihiro Miwa, another one of his lovers, a drag queen he met while doing "research" in gay bars lul

>>24518339
>>While working on his novel Forbidden Colors, Mishima visited gay bars in Japan...
This comes from the same source as the Fukushima Letters.

>Mishima's story The Cigarette

That's another work of fiction. You have a really tough time distinguishing reality from art.

>Jirō Fukushima published a memoir containing letters

See:>>24518057
>It was debunked as government propaganda decades ago.

I've never seen this one though:
>Here's a picture of Mishima with Akihiro Miwa, another one of his lovers

Where does the narrative of "research" come from? Was that you, or reddit? But based on this logic I could put a tranny anywhere and instantly make everyone around them gay as long as I take a picture.

>>24518181
Is this Heavy Rain Falling?

>>24518364
Is that a book? Never heard of it.

>>24518263
>says Truman Capote
lol

>>24518359
It's just total coincidence that this guy wrote about being a faggot all the time. Total coincidence that Mishima wrote about the muscular, lithe bodies of strong muscular men. Total coincidence that he writes to his editor Confessions of a Mask is him "aiming for as much scientific accuracy as [he] can." Total coincidence that he does a faggy photoshoot replicating the image of St Sebastian that he describes his not-him character jacking off to in Confessions. Sorry man but Mishima was a massive closeted homo. You can still like his work, that's okay, doesn't mean you're a faggot too
>it was debunked as propaganda!!1!!
Incredible cope
>What seemed like a natural friendship did not develop much further. Mishima came to the United States in the summer of 1957 and later complained that Truman had not reciprocated his hospitality. Truman denied the charge. “I was nice to him,” he maintained. “He said he wanted to suck a big white cock. (I don’t know why people always think I can fix them up. I’m not really in the pimping business—though actually I do know a lot of people.) I telephoned a friend of mine, and he did go out with Mishima. But Mishima never called to thank me and he never paid the boy.”
from Capote: A Biography >>24518263 lul

>>24518378
Yes
Your first paragraph reminded me of that.

>>24518390
>It's just total coincidence that this guy wrote about being a faggot all the time

He was broaching a taboo. Japan's traditional society was famous for them.

>Total coincidence that Mishima wrote about the muscular, lithe bodies of strong muscular men

Yes. Nobody wants to read about grimy losers.

>Total coincidence that he does a faggy photoshoot replicating the image of St Sebastian that he describes his not-him character jacking off to in Confessions

Yes. The theory also comes from the name of the book, where the book is his mask confessing his inner self, but that's conjectural.

If he didn't say he's gay, he's not gay.

>Mishima came to the United States in the summer of 1957 and later complained that Truman had not reciprocated his hospitality. Truman denied the charge. “I was nice to him,” he maintained. “He said he wanted to suck a big white cock

I don't know how you could read this and take it seriously. But there's a sucker born every minute, and the author knew how to sucker you in.

>>24518403
>he's just broaching a taboo!
>he's really into big, muscular, strong men but not in a gay way!
>it's conjecture that the character in Confessions is him! ignore the letter he sent to his editor!
>Capote is just lying!
>the letters from his gay lover is propaganda because... because... it just is okay!
>if he didn't say he's gay, he's not gay!
LMAO I promise liking Mishima's work doesn't make you a faggot but when you try to deny that he was a faggot you just sound like a sputtering retard

>>24518418
>Capote is just lying!
Yes. It's literally hearsay.

>>24518422

>>24518418
>>he's really into big, muscular, strong men but not in a gay way!

I read Conan, a lot of my friends read Conan, none of us are gay. In fact, the gays I know DONT read Conan.

>>it's conjecture that the character in Confessions is him! ignore the letter he sent to his editor!

What letter? You've only posted two types of sources: literal fiction and the Fukushima Letters.

Mishima was dead when those accusations got published, normally this would be a case for libel, but he couldn't defend himself. Now you have to ask yourself why the Japanese government which was notorious for shutting shit like this down decided to let it go on. And why the copyright never lapsed.

tldr it's a government psyop to make nationalists look gay to keep them nice and liberal. Wouldn't be surprised if it was the US embassy's idea.

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/library/books/102199mishima-copyright.html

Eventually the Mishima family is allowed to prevent the spreading of the propaganda- but the trick is that they have to copyright the letters, which means that the letters then become assumed to be written by Mishima himself. That was the only way they were allowed to shut it down. That's because the Japanese government which very often allowed for libel suits to shut down production of illicit claims decided that they would not allow for libel in this case. Very strange.

So basically the Mishima estate got forced into claiming that the letters were authentic in order to cease production of the libel, instead of being allowed a normal libel case.

>>24518434
>what letter???
>Writing to editor Sakamoto Kazuki, Mishima declared: "This next novel will be my first I-novel ever; of course, it won't be an I-novel of the Literary Establishment sort, but it will be an attempt to vivisect myself in which I will turn on myself the blade of psychological analysis that I have honed for the hypothetical figure so far. I will aim for as much scientific accuracy as I can; I will try to be Baudelaire's so-called 'victim and executioner.'"
From Persona: A Biography of Yukio Mishima
>it's a government psyop
Beyond parody
>very strange they wouldn't allow for libel
Truth is an absolute defense to libel you fucking retard lmao that's why they went the copyright route
>Shortly after they met, Mishima asked Mayuzumi to take him to "a bar for pederasts." With Kinoshita they went to a place called Cafe Blanche. According to Mayuzumi, all the boys came to him because he spoke French, and Mishima was angry.
>Late in the summer of 1950, Mishima began to frequent the homosexual bars and cafes which had materialized all over Tokyo immediately after the war. (There were no "gay" bars in Japan before the war. Their sudden appearance afterward is attributable to the large foreign homosexual community, including significant numbers of soldiers, which gathered in Tokyo during the occupation.) His favorite place was a "gay" cafe on the Ginza called Brunswick. This was a coffeehouse and bar which employed attractive young waiters and was patronized by a rather bizarre combination of older, well-to-do Japanese and foreign businessmen, GIs, and Japanese hustlers.
>But the biggest surprise was Mishima's "unabashed homosexuality.' According to Mogi, he regularly brought to his hotel in the afternoon young boys of seventeen or so, "the sort who hung around in the parks." Since he was open about it, Mogi asked how he managed to meet the boys, and Mishima explained that in "that world" there was an understanding without words. He told Mogi that he was interested in the process of courtship and female psychology but entirely uninterested in "the final act."
from John Nathan's "Mishima: A Biography"
>If he didn't say he's gay, he's not gay
This just keeps getting funnier and more retarded

>>24518550
>turn on myself the blade of psychological analysis

Either he was already contemplating ritual suicide, or this was contrived. I imagine this "letter" arose post-morten?

>Beyond parody

How do you figure? This was the era of Operation Gladiator. Everyone from gays to communists complain about how there were literal conspiracies against them- but it's too hard for you to believe that straight nationalists might have been perceived as a threat? Look around ffs. Which one symbol is no one allowed to show anywhere. It's not a rainbow flag. It's not a hammer and sickle.

>Truth is an absolute defense to libel you fucking retard lmao that's why they went the copyright route

You're saying they never pursued the libel route?

>Mishima asked Mayuzumi to take him to "a bar for pederasts.

So we're not just talking about gay stuff anymore. You're saying he was a child-predator.

Is there any single claim you actually find dubious- or do you just swallow all of the literal hearsay as hard evidence?

>According to Mogi, he regularly brought to his hotel in the afternoon young boys of seventeen or so, "the sort who hung around in the parks." Since he was open about it, Mogi asked how he managed to meet the boys

So why didn't the government do anything about this? Are we imagining that 1960s Japan was 2010 Hollywood?

>>24518424
If some bratty gay guy says you like to suck black cocks and publishes it in a book, does that make it true?

>>24517948
This. He was homosexual, not the same thing.

>>24518621
>pederasts
>you're saying he was a child predator
The French word for "homosexual" and "boy-lover" is the same word you fucking tard how do you not know this, it's a translation thing
>there's no proof!!!
>okay all that is hearsay!!!!
Let's keep going
>At any rate, Romano Vulpitta has suggested that Muramatsu Takeshi may have gone too far in emphasizing the consequences of his friend’s breakup with Mitani Kuniko on his psyche. Mishima’s own “words and actions” are there, the Italian diplomat-turned-scholar of Japanese literature has pointed out, as “an obstacle to casually dismissing” the “homosexual legend,” along with the “rightwing legend.” Muramatsu was too eager in his attempt to remain “respectful” to Mishima Yukio. More to the point, there is, Muramatsu himself did not neglect to note, the problem you cannot really avoid in writing a biography: how “not to create personal trouble for those surrounding” the subject. Among other things, Mishima’s wife, Yōko, was alive when Muramatsu serialized the biography in Shinchō, from 1988 to 1990, and she was famous for working hard after her husband’s death to tramp down any suggestion that he had had homosexual involvements. It is known that Muramatsu knew far more than he let on. Indeed, Muramatsu would admit his friend’s sexuality, albeit indirectly, long before taking on the difficult task of writing his biography.
>Yashiro, for that matter, even as he confessed he was unaware of Mishima’s homosexual tendencies during the period these things happened, in 1947, recalled being introduced to a Peers School student in Mishima’s house with whom he was on intimate terms
>Mishima took Mieko across the tree-lined street, walked around Matsuzakaya to a place named Brunswick, which was behind the department store. As soon as they entered it, several young men spotted Mishima and surrounded him, crying, “Look, Mishima Sensei’s here!” Mieko was miffed. Did Mishima bring her here just to show off his popularity among the people who were apparently queers?
>Brunswick was not the only gay bar Mishima patronized. There were several others, among them one right in front of Shinjuku Station.
He went to gay bars so often they recognized him when he walked in lul. From Persona: A Biography of Yukio Mishima

>>24518621
>>24518661
>If he didn't say he's gay, he's not gay!!!
Here's a letter from Mishima saying he's gay
>As it later came to light, Mishima himself
had complained about a lack of gay life in a letter from Rio de Janeiro to one of his friends in Tokyo. “I am in the salon of the Copacabana Palace,” he wrote Kamogawa Tadashi, on February 3, 1952. “I am sorry to say, but here’s no gay life. Already for a week or ten days, nothing has happened.” Gay life is a term he used, in katakana. “Among the boys in the hotel salon, there is a cute one of 16 or 17, but I have no language with which to make myself understood.” According to Mogi, Mishima “regularly” brought to the hotel boys of “the sort who hung around in the parks.” When asked how he managed it, he said that in “that world” there was no need for words. “In America there were two aventures in ten days,” Mishima went on, using a French word, but “Americans somehow do not stimulate my desire.” He followed this with a revealing observation: “Further, I hate to be loved because it’s claustrophobic.”
Here's him going to another gay bar
>By late in the evening Mishima was visibly tired, but then he said, “Let’s go to a bar I save for special occasions.” The moment he said so, he had a second wind. Somehow Yoshida guessed what kind of bar it would be, and he was right. It was one for homosexuals, a tiny hole-in-the-wall joint in the West Village. What Yoshida didn’t know was that it was the same one to which Donald Richie had taken Mishima five years earlier. It was called Mary’s.

>>24517535 (OP)
>>Shakespeare
>>DH Lawrence
>>Eliot
>>Joyce
>>Milton
Obviously not homosexuals. You can try and make an argument for Shakespeare, but at the end of the day there's nothing explicitly homosexual about the sonnets, especially since both Shakespeare and the Fair Youth are shown to be attracted to and sleep with women.

>>24518661
>how do you not know this
Well this is going to sound crazy as someone who's lived overseas, has taken German and Latin and can translate Italian, but I don't know French. I know. Crazy. Everyone starts with French. French is the lingua Frencha of the entire world. Every high school and college teaches it and you're talking to a retard that went in reverse order and learned four other languages before learning French, but it happened. But- you know- if you want to cut down on this sort of thing, you could put the actual translation in English. Weird that people speak English in 2025, but it happens. Some people even use it on /lit/.

>an obstacle to casually dismissing” the “homosexual legend,” along with the “rightwing legend.”

Okay, so we do have a motive for narratives. You're proving against your point here. Probably should have taken this out.

>Muramatsu was too eager in his attempt to remain “respectful” to Mishima Yukio

So your author cites an author who wrote against him? Are you trying to destroy your own point?

>Mishima’s wife, Yōko

Wow he sounds real fucking gay anon.

>she was famous for working hard after her husband’s death to tramp down any suggestion that he had had homosexual involvements

So he was being attacked as soon as he died. Got it.

>Muramatsu would admit his friend’s sexuality, albeit indirectly

Oh so he doesn't admit it at all. Awesome start. Look, I'm going to stop right here. It's pretty clear you're clinging onto whatever gibberish you feel makes the world a little gayer. Maybe you think you're punching nazis or something. Who knows. Seek help, take your meds, don't forget to dilate.

Freak.

>>24518675
This reminds me of that time the gay jewish historian found a letter saying that Frederick II was gay.

>>24518689
>there's no proof!!!
>posts proof
>if he didn't say he's gay he's not gay!!!
>posts him saying he's gay
>oh yeah? oh yeah? well... well... YOU'RE A TRANNY!!!!
You retards are so fucking funny. Mishima was a faggot. Keep coping

>>24518718
>>posts him saying he's gay
He doesn't say he's gay. This letter exists in a book, not as a letter. All of your evidence boils down to two things: a single picture of a tranny nearby (presumably this one gay bar turned into hundreds of gay bars which turned him further into a child-predator), and the other being trade books written by a series of failed authors. It's all basically hearsay. Even your direct evidence is alleged direct evidence.

>>24518401
This one?
>Hard Rain Falling is a 1966 crime novel written by Don Carpenter.

Gay people are statistically more likely to be creative and disregard societal norms as well as those within literature itself to create something truly unique.

>>24518693
reminds me about that time a gay historian found a letter that said jesus was gay

>>24518765
Don't give the guy ideas. Next thing you know, OP is going to add Friedrich and Jesus to his list of gays

>>24518725
>any proof is hearsay and lies because... because... BECAUSE IT JUST IS OKAY
We both know how retarded you sound right now, you have no counterargument other than shouting "tranny" and "liar" over and over

I am a brown faggot and I have a job now but I know the better of you to be a squeaky wheel

>>24518783
Can you produce such letters independently? No? Oh that sucks. You'll win next time.

>no counterargument
Yeah so you see the picture of the tranny? Why is Mishima not looking at the camera? Why does that look like a black tie event and not a gay bar? Why isn't Yukio wrapped around by two 17 years olds as you have alleged? Why is the picture clearly cropped from a much larger photo? Almost like none of your """"evidence"""" holds an ounce of water.

You're just repeating claims, not proving anything. Even your claims admit that they are concerned with proving his gayness and dismantling the "rightwing legend" in various places.

>>24518049
hot

>>24518689
>>24518661
>Mishima’s own “words and actions” are there, the Italian diplomat-turned-scholar of Japanese literature has pointed out, as “an obstacle to casually dismissing” the “homosexual legend,” along with the “rightwing legend.”
>Okay, so we do have a motive for narratives. You're proving against your point here. Probably should have taken this out.
Im not even who you’re arguing with and i don’t care about mishima because ive never read him but how did you misread this, the quote is saying that mishimas own words and actions make it hard to dismiss that he was a homosexual or right-wing, not the reverse?

>>24518819
>so we do have a motive for narratives
Is what I posted in response. What I mean to say here is that the author says there are obstacles to casually dismissing gayness and nationalism, which means there are motives to dismissing both, which means that the dialectic around him is both made to dismiss those lenses, but also to prove those perspectives since that author is not trying to dismiss them but explains the obstacles in dismissal. There's a back and forth going on for dismissing this or that, or proving this or that. His homosexuality isn't linked to his nationalism, and dismissals are only one half of the audience, those presenting obstacles are the other half.

My point is that there are motives for both narratives and everyone is keenly aware of them, and even the guy trying to prove his gayness and dismantle those obstacles is admitting that he's aware of the conversation on the whole.

>>24518803
>Can you produce such letters independently?
Are you asking me to give you a jpeg of an untranslated letter from Mishima in his own hand? Lmao I've cited two biographers and all you can do is sputter like a tard because you can't cope with the fact that Mishima, despite being an excellent novelist, was a faggot
>Why is Mishima not looking at the camera?
I don't even know what you think you're arguing here
>Why does that look like a black tie event and not a gay bar?
Because that photo was probably taken at some kind of reception. IDK, wasn't there. Here's one of Mishima singing karaoke alongside the drag queen, named Miwa
>Why isn't Yukio wrapped around by two 17 years olds as you have alleged?
Don't even know what you're trying to argue here, cameras take pictures of specific moments in time, not an entire evening, week, month, or life
>Why is the picture clearly cropped from a much larger photo?
You are desperately grasping at straws, keep coping
>Even your claims admit that they are concerned with proving his gayness and dismantling the "rightwing legend" in various places.
You fucking retard, that quote's saying that Mishima himself makes it hard to say he wasn't gay or wasn't right-wing, not that it's hard to say he was not gay or not right wing >>24518819

>>24518838
You gleefully misread a very simple quote and now you're doing this incredible backpedal trying to claim that you were making a convoluted point about "the dialectic around him"

Like I said, all you can do is sputter like a tard

>>24518621
>Which one symbol is no one allowed to show anywhere. It's not a rainbow flag. It's not a hammer and sickle.

Reminds me of this, the screening of Kenneth Anger's Scorpio Rising:
>When the film was screened at an art theater in Los Angeles, it was protested by the American Nazi Party on the basis that it insulted their flag.[29] The police were ultimately called to the site and arrested the theater manager for public obscenity and canceled the film's run.[22] This happened March 7, 1964 at the Cinema Theater.[30]

Oh, by the way:
>At the suggestion of Yukio Mishima, the Art Theatre Guild in Japan named Theatre Scorpio after the film.

>>24518070

>>24518287
i, a man, have had and enjoyed sex with both mem amd women.

>>24518843
>Are you asking me to give you a jpeg of an untranslated letter from Mishima in his own hand
Yes. Obviously. Where is it?

>Lmao I've cited two biographers
That's a polite name for a hatchet job. They're reputational hitmen.

>I don't even know what you think you're arguing here
Mishima is not part of the photo intentionally. The subject is clearly the tranny, and not Yukio.

>Because that photo was probably taken at some kind of reception. IDK, wasn't there. Here's one of Mishima singing karaoke alongside the drag queen, named Miwa
Okay, this looks grim.

>Don't even know what you're trying to argue here, cameras

Because there's no gay photos of this supposedly flamboyantly and aggressively gay man. Your hackjobs, er, biographers, claim that he's on the prowl for boys everywhere he goes. Where are they?

>You are desperately grasping at straws, keep coping
Not sure what you mean here, the photo is clearly out of proportion of both subjects and has been cropped down. Yukio is not the subject of it, he just happens to be there.

>You fucking retard, that quote's saying that Mishima himself makes it hard to say he wasn't gay or wasn't right-wing

See:>>24518838

He's framing the conversation of nationalism and gayness as both facing dismissal and facing obstacles to dismissal. By saying that he's making it hard to dismiss gayness, the author is admitting a political motive, which he does by framing obstacle/dismissal and juxtaposing gayness with nationalism. The author wants you to look at gayness and associate it with rightwing.

>>24518853
>You gleefully misread a very simple quote
I don't think you bothered to read it. That author didn't state his case as dismissal but echoed it back as an obstacle to dismissal, it's a logical double negative with the implication that there is a back-and-forth conversation. You're not looking at the subtext. There's even more subtext right after where he compares gayness accusations with rightwing accusations- the author wants you to conflate the two. It's drivel.

>>24518854
This is too big of a deep cut for me, I don't know what any of this is.

>>24518873
>Yes. Obviously. Where is it?
Presumably in the Mishima archives in Tokyo or wherever the fuck lmao this is pathetic because we both know that you'd just call it a fake
>That's a polite name for a hatchet job. They're reputational hitmen.
Sorry that it's well-attested from multiple sources that Mishima was a faggot, if you want I can give you specific page numbers in each biography. There's also a third I haven't even quoted from yet
>Because there's no gay photos of this supposedly flamboyantly and aggressively gay man.
If you can't see the faggotry in >>24518858 then you're blind
>The photo is clearly out of proportion of both subjects and has been cropped down. Yukio is not the subject of it, he just happens to be there.
copecopecopecopecopecopecope
>He's framing the conversation of nationalism and gayness as both facing dismissal and facing obstacles to dismissal. By saying that he's making it hard to dismiss gayness, the author is admitting a political motive, which he does by framing obstacle/dismissal and juxtaposing gayness with nationalism.
Lmao still trying to pretend you didn't misread it. He's not talking about the concept of right-wing politics or the concept of faggotry. He's talking about Mishima. He's saying that Mishima said and did things that make it very hard to say he wasn't a faggot, or say he wasn't right-wing. The implication here is very clear -- Mishima fans want to say that he wasn't a faggot, or wasn't a fascist, or both, but Mishima's own life proves both of those wrong. He was, and he was

You can admit he was a faggot, you can still read him, it's okay, he's still a fascist, that means he's still le based. But denying he was a faggot is just desperate retardation

>here's that heterosexual author i was telling you about.

>>24518873
isn't it more "damming" if the photo of mishima and the crossdresser is candid?

>>24518892
cult gay biker film
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M08Czuqy80

>>24518916
Hes getting on that motorbike to fuck super hot japanese babes and repopulate nippon

if you see anything but HOT JAPANESE CREAMPIES in this image its because you yourself are a degenerate homo with infinite cocklust

>>24518899
>Presumably in the Mishima archives in Tokyo or wherever the fuck lmao
Oh, so it doesn't exist. Got it. This answer fits your whole method: somebody wrote it in a book so it must be true.
>Sorry that it's well-attested from multiple sources
Two authors writing trade books is not "well-attested" research. I'm guessing you've never been to college.
>There's also a third
Another trade book? If it's in a thousand trade books it won't make it true, it just means people are selling a story.
>If you can't see the faggotry in >>24518858 then you're blind
It's art. Do you look at Jesus on the Christ and think it's gay? Don't answer that- we both know you do.
>>The photo is clearly out of proportion of both subjects and has been cropped down. Yukio is not the subject of it, he just happens to be there.
You know what you're doing: take a photo of a tranny with Yukio nearby and now you can finish executing the man's dignity from your "well-attested" discount books-a-million authors (1/5 on Goodreads) making claims about how he was a child predator while simultaneously concerning themselves with how to "dismiss" his "rightwing" views.

>Lmao still trying to pretend you didn't misread it.
I feel like you're misreading my posts and you're projecting bad reading comprehension onto others.
>He's not talking about the concept of right-wing politics or the concept of faggotry
He juxtaposes both right next to each other in the same context. This is a big deal if you get into the classics because you're taught to look for these implications. It's fundamental to a good /lit/ education.

>He's talking about Mishima. He's saying that Mishima said and did things that make it very hard to say he wasn't a faggot, or say he wasn't right-wing.
And it's the author telling you that he's both interested in dismissing the claims and the obstacles to dismissing those claims. You're not reading Mishima, you're reading another author explain his view of how to approach the situation and how he wants you to approach the topic. Again, subtext is important.

>Mishima fans want to say that he wasn't a faggot, or wasn't a fascist
Oh- Mishima's fans want him to be a fascist. I know. I'm one. I looked up to him since I was a young. Being a teen and seeing Mishima dressed up in his uniform, posing. Finding pictures of the Shield Society. It was the ultimate figure of Heroism. My greatgrandfathers were both in WW2, American side of course, and my impression is that we not only won but dropped bombs on them. They had to be liberal republic vassal states like the rest of the world. But then you have this guy, decades after misery should have set in, rebelling against the framework of that world and demanding a move back to Japan-ness in the face of ubiquitous American domination. It was like seeing an ember rise out of a dying campfire, in that moment right before it stands its chance of catching a new flame alight and preserving a dim light in the cold night.

>>24518934
This.

So what's the tldr of this retard fight? Was he gay? I'm pretty sure he was. Anyways, an anon once posted this (I'm gonna copy paste it):

>Sakakiyama Tomotsu's (an anonymous pen name for Mishima) Worse for Love lays out his intentions with his suicide as clear as can be. That work is the companion to Patriotism, and contextualizes the work, explaining that his entire political character is a homosexual theater act, a pretension that justifies his fetish for violence in the public eye. His "right wing" politics is a very perverse joke, but no dull reactionary who claims to have read him can understand that they're just praising the purely depraved ideations of a great homosexual. Confessions of a Mask lays this ideation out more clearly as well. Mishima was supremely lonely, and premised his life off his ability to be seen as a virile beautiful creature to a general public. Once he hit 45 and was no longer able to retain his muscle mass, he killed himself in the culmination of his theatre performance to achieve orgasm and not risk physically withering away in the public eye

I think the people itt could read it and find out what's going inside his head for themselves. I'm too lazy to do it myself maybe when I'm in a Mishima mood

>>24518996
>Sakakiyama Tomotsu's (an anonymous pen name for Mishima)

Likely fucking story.

I don't know why I, an educated man, am spending time with a bunch of evil gays trying to convince me that my hero was a child-predator so they can have a slice of gay-history.

>>24518936
>Oh, so it doesn't exist. Got it. This answer fits your whole method: somebody wrote it in a book so it must be true.
>somebody wrote it in a book so it must be true
Demands proof, proof given, calls proof lies based on nothing, classic cope
>le heckin trade book!!!
Weapons-grade cope, we both know that as soon as I pull out an academic press you're going to start reeeeeeing about da joos controlling the universities
>it's ART
Total coincidence the photoshoot is him acting out the image the "character" in Confessions jerks off to, right
>claims about he was a child predator
Not my fault you didn't know that "pederast" and "homosexual" are encompassed by the same French word
>I'm not misreading! YOU'RE misreading!
Nuclear cope
>bro it's the juxtaposition bro
You misread it and now you're embarrassed and trying to claim some gigabrain reading of the very simple quote. We both know this is what happened. Please continue trying to sound intelligent, it's really funny
>And it's the author telling you that he's both interested in dismissing the claims and the obstacles to dismissing those claims.
I see no evidence that the quoted scholar wants to dismiss either claim, this is just something you inserted into the quoted passage. He's saying that there are others who want to dismiss the faggotry and the fascism, and that it's very hard to do that because of what the man himself said and did. I feel embarrassed on your behalf, it's gotta be rough to learn that your favorite writer was a faggot and simultaneously realize that you got shown up here
>Mishima's fans want him to be a fascist. I know. I'm one. I looked up to him since I was a young.
>I was a young
ESL detected this just keeps on getting better. Hey at least this explains why you misread that quote. Better to cut your losses and just say you misread it because English is your second language and you're still learning

I thought it was common knowledge that Mishima was homosexual

>>24517535 (OP)
that must explain why I'm so shit at writing.

I think that the naked, in-shape male body, penis included, is beautiful and there were very rare occassions where I couldn't help but feel distracted by how handsome a man was IRL. But no man has ever given me that primal sensation of my libido stirring between my legs like when I see a hot lady with a curvy body and a cute face. I don't know what that makes me.

>>24519084
>I don't know what that makes me.
A classical artist

>>24517535 (OP)
The Poetry of Sappho
->haggot?

>>24518934
>>24518940

>>24517535 (OP)

>>24518181
A fellow vim fag.

>>24517535 (OP)
Correlation, not causation. Being openly a fag requires to dgaf what people think about you, and to be brave enough to lay yourself out open. Thats also required to be a (successful) author.
Also artsyness isnt traditionally masculine, neither is being a fag.
You can be all those things without being a fag though

>>24520848
vim for the win

>>24521116
>Being openly a fag
Most writers weren't. They just wrote homoerotic storylines

>>24518996
>not able to maintain muscle mass at 45
>looks like he never bulked once in his life
Mishima could have been saved if someone just introduced him to the concept of a caloric surplus and eating plenty of protein

Why is /lit/ as homophobic like /pol/trannies? I thought you guys were smarter?

There's certainly a relation between sexuality and creativity. Freud talked about sublimation of libido. Creativity is stored in the balls.

>>24521976
We just have "intellectual" varieties of homophobia. For instance I think that homosexuality is primarily an unnamed cluster B personality disorder and the sexual aspect is only incidental really.

>>24519002
The original manuscript for the Sakakiyama Tomotsu story was literally found in his house among his other manuscripts upon his death. The story is clearly written by Mishima just by language alone, not to mention that it predates Patriotism while having the same exact plot arc, themes, and pacing, and the fact that the actual film of Patriotism very clearly admits his fascism as performance, down to him having to shield his eyes with his military cap to have sex with his wife. Mishima's wife found the film version of Patriotism so humiliating, that she burned the original and tried to censor the film. And your notion that the idea he was gay happened after his death is just so objectively wrong. His contemporaries derided him in the media for it, his boyfriends would speak publicly of their relationships, everyone who worked on his gay softcore photoshoots would speak openly about the artistic themes of the works, it wasn't an open secret, it was a given while he was alive that everyone in Japanese culture accepted and interacted with. I can't believe I'm trying to argue with someone so fucking stupid as to believe the Novel titled "Confessions of a Mask" isn't a discussion byway of fiction of the authors existence. What fucking moron is too stupid to understand that great art/fiction is more personal than any nonfiction could ever be, why do you even read literature at that point if you can't understand how it is the highest form of the individual? Sorry that you're not an intelligent faggot like your idol, you're just an idiot faggot Mishima has been able to dress up and toy with from the grave, and you're too stupid to understand the forces of your own performative libido

>>24521976
>muh homophobia
We are smarter; you're just a faggot.

>>24518263
'Big white cock' is an oxymoron

>>24519084
Being gay is finding more libidinal reward in the sublimation of the libido into a progressively tensing aesthetic ideal (be the ideal masculine or feminine, the desire is essentially performative), as oppposed to releasing and building the virility in cycles of animalistic reproductive lust. Being gay is very similar to being an artist, but the gay man still wants to primarily experience libidinal reward in the corporeal world, whereas an artist's reward is a lot more abstracted

>>24522143
In this logic though everything that is civilized and not animalistic, every fold in the brain that forms the ego, is a personality disorder. Being gay is one of these few ego forms that lives and dies by the worship of beauty, so I think its perfectly reasonable and decent

>>24521976
Homosexuality is acceptable, faggotry not

Not sure why there is a big stigma around being gay. In-fact, more men need to be gay if not all of them. We would probably have a society that actually cares for one another then. Remember the Sacred Band of Thebes? They were pretty cool.

>>24522565
you can suck dick if you want, bro. no one's stopping you.

Mishima clearly liked men and his sense of masculinity erotically. But did he ever fuck another man?

>>24518754
Not anon but yeah you should read it, it’s a fantastic novel

I don't think you have to be gay, but I do think you have to be sexually repressed somehow. That pent-up frustration releases as creativity.

We need to make a STRONG distinction between faggots and homosexuals. Faggot are pussy whipped retards, they love women. Homosexual are masculine pussy hating gentlemen, they hate women and their goals. A faggot "comes out" and is an attention. A homosexual never comes out, just keep having sex and making based art.

Based homosexuals:
>Mishima
>Burroughs
>Pasolini
>Wittgenstein

>>24518049
bro you need to google what fiction is it will blow your mind

>>24523825
see >>24518858

>>24517535 (OP)
You're not interested in literature if the most prominent word of your vernacular makes you sound like you have tourettes

>>24524181
shut the fuck up, bitch

>cervantes
not a fag
>lope de vega
not a fag
>dante
not a fag
>boccaccio
not a fag
it seems only writers who speak fag languages are fags o algo

>>24524010
bro here's a photo of loch ness monster

>>24524294
Wow, great argument, faggotron. You realIy convinced me with those hot opinions.

>>24523609
I'm surprised I never saw it in the gaycore list, but yeah, I'll read it.

lawrence was a hetero gigachad manlet

>>24523791
>A homosexual never comes out, just keep having sex and making based art.
That is harder and harder to do these days