Is it worth reading instead of just watching the TV show?

Yes, the miniseries despite great acting is heavily censored and turns Blue Duck into a joke. The Streets of Laredo miniseries is a much better adaptation of its book, but all the books are overall better than the TV series.

>>24527458 (OP)
IT HAS A TV SHOW???

>>24527458 (OP)
TV series does a better job on theme, but theme was an accident.
>>24527474
Stop being a plotfag.

>>24527477
98% on rotten tomatoes

>>24527477
It's kino too. Watch it immediately.

>>24527458 (OP)
>instead of just watching the TV show
Neither are masterworks but both are worthwhile, Robert Duvall is an excellent actor and the score for the show is well done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbBs6A3nHcs

>>24527458 (OP)
Reading it now; over the first hundred pages I doubted it, but it picks up considerably after that: read 300 pp yesterday, just started the final part (III) and really enjoying it

>>24527568
How early does Blue Duck show up?

>>24527520
>Robert Duvall
holy shit, it just got propelled to the top of the watch list

>>24527585
Ca. pagw 375, but he's fairly regular after that

>>24527827
yeah, I can see it starting slow then, Blue duck only shows up like half way through the 2nd episode

>>24527458 (OP)
I just downloaded the four Lonsome Dove books the other day from learning about them here. Apparently McMurtry is a great writer, but his books are long as fuck.

>>24527833
About a third of the way, actually, but then Part ii is half the book

>>24527833
Does the tv movie series contain the Roscoe/Janey mini arc?

>>24528957
yeah He meets her in texas with some asshole who bought her, the asshole beats her so she breaks the dudes legs then follows roscoe then helps roscoe with some bandits who are trying to rape him until July comes to the rescue then they all get stabbed by that half sneed bastard

yeah

>>24529416
Thanks, anon

>>24531159
no problem

Probably the best western there is other than maybe little big man.

So, is the main theme that
a. everyone dies for nothing
since so many characters die meaningless deaths over something that gets resolved by them doing nothing
b. Woodrow is just as much of an asshole as Gus

>>24532049
More like, everyone dies chasing dreams, some with concern for their fellow human beings, some without
Just like irl
So far as Call and McCrea are concerned, I appreciated them, they were interesting characters

>>24532539
I'm not saying they were bad characters, just saying that the show starts with Gus refusing to work and then fucking his friend's gf multiple times like a dick and basically giving jake no respect (not that jake deserved it)
and then later on it turns out Call won't acknowledge his son, and Call gets a bunch of them killed via direct action like firing off the gun to get a handful of horses back from the injuns that the others didn't even care about because the injuns were starving and just going to montana anyway when they could have stayed in Kansas near Clara

>1881
>letting mexicans eat at the dinner table
I shiggy diggy

>>24532545
Well, I haven't seen the mini-series yet; I've only read Lonesome Dove (just finished it yesterday, actually) and perhaps the book renders the MC's more sympathetic than a movie, even a good one, can.
I know that there are three other books that concern these characters (Dove's the third part of a 4-book series): The Streets of Laredo is the fourth book, I know, and two others precede it, Dead Man's Walk, and another the title of which escapes me

Does McMurtry hate women? All the female characters are whores except for Clara and Janey who dies quickly.
Also he was salty readers found the book uplifting instead of miserable so he made the following books depressing garbage. Overall Lonesome Dove is worth reading, sequels no unless you really like his style.

>>24532634
Gus becomes more sympathetic and likeable as the miniseries goes on and more and more characters point out Call's flaws as the book goes on
>>24532667
thanks for the advice. from what I understand he wrote lonesome dove as like a deconstruction of the western genera and it was supposed to be a film before being a book. Like unforgiven or like what watchmen was supposed to be for comic books or Evangelion for mecha anime. but there's still something romantic about the old west even when you try to make it sad

>>24532667
>>24532634
I feel like by the time the story ends, at least in the miniseries, I'm not exactly looking to return to return to the world or the characters with a sequel. Like the only question left unanswered is if Call will stop being a faggot about Newt

89s the year, house music is in your ear

>>24532667
Most women who interacted with cowboys were whores. This is literally the only Western he ever wrote, his other books are about marriage drama and women getting divorces.

Are the Berrybender narratives worth reading?

>>24532687
Call becomes more conspicuously a man killer as the book goes on, a more fearsomely unknowable character, in the way that a wild animal is unknowable. In a way, he's kind of an inarticulate version of McCarthy's Judge, with the major exception that he completely espouses the social norms. Also, he has no idea at all of what a freak he is, whereas the Judge's one potential weakness is that he's completely aware, almost a little over-proud of, his outstanding social freakiness. Aar, would be an interesting meetup on the high plains of some competent American imagination-- I really don't know who'd 'win'

>>24532826
Well, only a few of the characters are actually left by the final book; though I have no immediate plans, I'll probably read the other three over the next couple years

>>24527458 (OP)
The show was great! Didn't know it was a book, will have to read it. Definitely watch it, it's great.

>>24533583
*I'm reading a John Cheever novel now..

>>24533584
Yeah, I picked up an unopened DVD series at a junk shop a few weeks back which I'll probably watch beginning sometime this week; I just wanted to read the book first

>>24532667
P2. Janey's a great character

>>24533583
well if you include the unauthorized mini series for some reason there are 2 sequels and 2 prequals.
Prequals are always kind of dumb by nature of being a prequal and any sequel would be set in an old west that really only has ok corral, Geronimo's surrender and wounded knee left to happen. I guess Poncho Villa too but Call would be dead by then
>>24533581
I just meant more how Call refuses to give Newt his name and how Call could have stopped in Nebraska but had to go all the way to montana

>>24534375
In the book, Call doesn't 'refuse,' it's just more a matter of his complete obliviousness. 'Names' are an interesting theme in the book-- from nicknames, Clara wanting to hear her name, Deets having a first name (Josh) that Call only uses near the end of the book- and no one else ever uses, at all -to the fact that McMurtry himself always refers to McCrea (Gus) by his first name, and Woodrow ALWAYS by his last name (Call)-- only Gus calls Call 'Woodrow,' --most conspicuously at the end of Part ii, etc.

>>24534375
>Prequels
Given the Goodnight/Loving partnership on which the two MC's of the novel are based, prequels kind of make sense given that all of the Indian Wars and Civil War are over once LD begins, and they're already famous, aged cowboys in their 50's. How did they become so? It's a legitimate interest

the book was quite underwhelming, read Warlock instead, it's kino

>>24527458 (OP)
I never understood boomer's obsession with prostitutes

>>24535377
>cowboys
Actually, Texas Rangers, but I'm sure you get the point

>>24535359
oh, in the show there are multiple scenes from when Call flips out on the army scout onwards where Gus or Clara seethe at him for not telling Newt that he's Newt's dad
>>24535377
I fell like one of the main themes is the fact they are specifically old in an old west that isn't as wild or frontier as it once was. like they are relics of the past and the west is in the past

>>24535386
who the fuck else would be in the middle of nowhere?

>>24535386
Kek. Well, they didn't have Internet porn and myriad sex toys to slake their several lusts in those days. Perhaps what you really don't understand is the reality of late 19th c prostitution in frontier towns ESPECIALLY, but everywhere it was far more prevalent than it is today, at least in its classic form. Heck, look up Ogallala, Dodge City, or any other Old West town still around but gone to seed. They're primary theatricals concern pistoleros and whores, and these theatricals are primarily what keep them alive

>>24535398
>relics
In a way this is correct (in the book) but it's also why Call ultimately wants to settle in Montana-- the last unsettled territory

>>24535434
*their

>>24535445
yeah, that's like a character flaw. he's old but he can't really function in the peaceful world he created so he goes looking for trouble so he can feel like he felt back in his youth. it's why at least in the show, he feels bad in the end because he feels responsible for all the death he caused due to wanting to go to montana

>>24535480
Right. Perhaps all men feel this way at some point in their lives, Call's being the most extreme of cases. I guess each of /us will find out soon enough, though, so long as we're not scalped before the gray hair comes

I reckon

>>24535390
they were cowboys in lonesome dove

>>24537591
Not really. Rancheros as opposed to vaqueros or gauchos, either of which are more appropriately 'cowboys'
But maybe it's a dumb point to argue. The point up there rests upon their fame as having been famous lawmen

>>24537620
they are literally herding cattle and driving the cattle to montana. that's cowboys

>>24537635
Indeed, it is. The point up there was that it was pretty much a new occupation for all of them, except Spoon, who was more a gambler and a ladies' man than anything else. You'll note that Augustus doesn't work, i.e. he pretty much refuses to be a 'cowboy'
The real cowboys are the Will Barger group

>>24537635
Say your dad's been a policeman all his life and at his retirement decides he wants to race sled dogs in the Iditarod. He has a little money so he invests in some dogs and equipment and relocates to Alaska and begins to train, and then after a year or so actually competes in the race..
Now imagine a novel about him in the manner of Lonesome Dove. Where would it begin? It would begin just after his retirement. Is he a sled dog racer? No, but inarguably the novel in which he appears will be about sled dog racing

>>24537661
Dish was a good cowboy
>>24537690
if he is actively racing dogs he is a dog racer

>>24537713
You're arguing statics, I'm arguing dynamics: it's pointless to continue

>>24535398
Call is loosely based on Charles Goodnight, but he also has a lot in common with Ethan Edwards from The Searchers. He's the sort of man who was necessary to tame the frontier and make it habitable for normal people, but he does not and cannot have a place in the world he helped to build. He belongs in the realm of myth with the Comanches and outlaws he fought against. There is a neat scene where Gus passes by a mountain of buffalo skulls and reflects that he's living through a brief transition period where the old West has been destroyed but the new West is yet to be built, and how none of the people who come after will be able to understand what he and his contemporaries went through to make it happen. It's a compelling theme and character archetype.

This is probably my favorite book next to A Farewell to Arms. I could talk about it forever.

Call did not give Newt his name because he considers it worthless as he led everyone of his friends to their deaths. He gives Newt what he truly values, his horse, his fathers watch (and I think his rifle too). Call is an autist and doesn't recognize that having the name of a famous lawman is worthy which is why Gus and Clara seethe over him.

Anyone ever read interviews with McMurtry? He seemed to have a chip on his shoulder that this was his most popular book, and it seemed like at best, cared nothing for it. His tone seems very dismissive when discussing the book. And the Streets of Laredo seems almost like a "fuck you" to fans of the book.

Did you guys read the sequels? What did you think of them?

>>24538579
yeah in the show he gave Newt his rifle, which is funny because it's objectively shittier than newt's rifle or the rifle Call left with. Newt seethes over the name thing too in the show.
And he seethed over it because fans too "the wrong message" from the book. He wanted to tear down the old west and the genera and most of the book romanticizes it until Deetz dies

>>24538579
>>24539040
Say what you will, but Call does completely respect, and completely carry out, Gus's will. He's a completely fair dealer which is something in the face of a thoroughly lazy, thoroughly corrupted, world.

>>24540275
no he doesn't. Gus said he wanted Call to tell Newt that Call is the boy's father but Call won't do it

>>24540819
This is simply Clara's last line of attack, who's both jealous and irrationally wrathful when it comes to Call. Here's a woman who over rationalized away her acceptance for the man she quite clearly loves, whereas Call, extremely down on himself for nearly the last half of the book, just can't bring himself to give Newt his name IN LANGUAGE (which he distrusts) but in every other way makes it abundantly clear to him. And his inability is not 'rational' (like Clara's) but very distinctly described as physical. The irony of course is that his inability to do so completely succeeds in creating a mini version of himself-- Newt's more heir to Call (and his pain) than most who inherit their fathers' names.
Anon spoke of 'social advantages' conveniently forgetting that Call's hatred of all 'societies' (even the society of the camp) is the chief motivation for his desire to settle in Montana in the first place. Is it vanity; is it pride? If so, the bug struck all the main characters (including Lorena) Clara far more so than Call imo. On her ranch she's the female version of Call; indeed, she married a weak man in order to assume that position, eventually, whether conscious of this or not. One tends to hate most one's own failings as perceived in other people, and this is the case of Clara with respect to Call, although, strangely, not vice verse. In a weird way this goes a ways in explaining Gus's own attraction to Call --fwr tyrants amuse him, or at least challenge his sense of independence the way he needs it to be challenged in this life.
In the eyes of the world (then) both Clara and Call are great successes; in the modern world everyone's critical of Call's VERY PERSONAL failings; and willfully blind to Clara's, which are every bit as serious, and certainly more virulent (premeditated) because rationalized

>>24541694
is this AI? why did you use the tranny dash?
in the show, at least, Call quite literally does not fulfill Gus's last will. One of the things Gus asked was for Call to tell Newt that Call is Newt's father, because Gus felt that it was important for the boy to hear it from his own dad. Now Call fulfills the rest of the will in regard to burying Gus, Sending the letters to the girls and the money to Lorena and in his own way he acknowledges Newt by giving Newt the horse, the watch, the rifle and charge of the camp. But he does not do the literal thing Gus asked for, which was for Call to call Newt his son.
Also, still funny to me but in the show at least the rifle Call gives Newt is worse than the rifle Newt already had and the rifle Call takes with him (an 1873 winchester is literally just an improved 1860 henry, better/safer loading mechanism, more ergonomic, less fragile, better round).
Also it's funny that he gifts Newt a horse when Newt was just gifted a horse. But I guess it technically wouldn't be unusual for a man of means to have more than one horse incase one of the horses gets worn out

>>24541730
Kek, no, not AI. I don't believe AI's in any position to make an apology of Call, as they're rare enough as to be almost not existent. I actually thought of someone making some em-dash comment or other, which is why I weighted them to the left, but whatever.
Call also gifts Newt the one item he inherited from his own father, the watch. And the horse he gifts Newt is his own, The Hell Bitch, which is the most envied mount in the entire book. Also, in the book, Call spends hours and hours watching Newt break horses, has great pride of him, leaves him in charge of the camp (despite his youth), obviously loves him, etc.
But perhaps the old saw IS wrong; perhaps actions DO NOT speak louder than words, because though Call lacks the words, all his late actions completely point to that old saw.
No great to-do is made about the rifle in the book; I seem to recollect that it's a German make, but that's it. Newt does receive the best horse available, unquestionably, and the sole family heirloom, and, most important, leadership of the ranch

>>24541791
>Kek, no, not AI. I don't believe AI's in any position to make an apology of Call, as they're rare enough as to be almost not existent. I actually thought of someone making some em-dash comment or other, which is why I weighted them to the left, but whatever.
there was just some thread on /pol/ about how AI and indians use "--" way more than native english speakers.
>in the entire book. Also, in the book, Call spends hours and hours watching Newt break horses, has great pride of him, leaves him in charge of the camp (despite his youth), obviously loves him, etc.
>but that's it. Newt does receive the best horse available, unquestionably, and the sole family heirloom, and, most important, leadership of the ranch
yeah I agree with this, but he still doesn't do the one part of it Gus asked, which was to say it in words
>No great to-do is made about the rifle in the book; I seem to recollect that it's a German make,
Weird, in the film it was a 1860 henry which would have been made in New Haven, CT. They don't make a big to do about anyone's guns in the show, it's just the henry winchester guns are rather distinct, at leas the ones they could have had and were shown a lot in cowboy media

>>24541822
It's funny, but I'm wondering if Gus DOES ask him this in the way of a 'dieing request' in the book to come clean with Newt. I know he badgers him, and I know Call wants to, but the chief emphases of that scene concern the letters, the burial, and Lorena's share of the herd-- or Gus himself (who becomes a kind of Hera to Call's Hercules)
If so, then Call actually fails at by far and away at his easiest task, but I'll go check

>>24538579
McMurtry wanted to be a super serious highbrow novelist and was annoyed that his main claim to fame was cowboyshit, which in his mind put him on the same level as lowbrow pulpy genre fiction authors. In one interview I think he even says the public needs to stop reading Westerns, kek.

>>24541822
>>24541848
Actually, it's not a dieing request. Gus confesses that he's told Newt, and that it's an abuse not to acknowledge him as his son, even that he *should* do it, but it's not a part of the series of tasks agreed to-- Gus plays Newt's advocate strongly, but ultimately leaves the decision up to Call.
In the midst of this Call berates Gus for his own vanity, in a manner not dissimilar to Clara's berating Call for his a little later on, but with far less vehemence.
Interesting that Call meets his double on the trail once he arrives back in Texas, Charles Goodnight, who somehow manages to out-Call Call during their brief interview. His female double is Clara, obviously (I was even able to pick up on this while reading the book). Were the Hell Bitch a woman, and not a mare, she'd be Clara

>>24541848
>>24541906
they didn't have Goodnight in the show. I guess he got cut for pacing. The dialogue might have been changed, in the scene in the show it seemed like Gus specifically requested Call tell Newt as part of the will

>>24527477
A TV series with a non-canon sequel that has the horrible line which haunts me to this day
>GUS MCCRAE RESPECTED WOMEN MORE THAN ANY MAN I'VE EVER KNOWN

>>24541912
Well, I'm going to begin the mini series this evening; look forward to it. Really enjoyed the book

>>24541915
lmao
>>24541925
it was pretty good, but the end is kind of sad like the book

>>24541915
Is this a Lorena quote?