>>24531608 (OP)
The one you vibe with the most.

>Pope
Achilles' wrath, to Greece the direful spring
Of woes unnumber'd, heavenly goddess, sing!
That wrath which hurl'd to Pluto's gloomy reign
The souls of mighty chiefs untimely slain;
Whose limbs unburied on the naked shore,
Devouring dogs and hungry vultures tore.
Since great Achilles and Atrides strove,
Such was the sovereign doom, and such the will of Jove!
>Fitzgerald
Anger be now your song, immortal one,
Akhilleus' anger, doomed and ruinous,
that caused the Akhaians loss on bitter loss
and crowded brave souls into the undergloom,
leaving so many dead men—carrion
for dogs and birds; and the will of Zeus was done.
Begin it when the two men first contending
broke with one another— the Lord Marshal
Agamémnon, Atreus’ son, and Prince Akhilleus.
>Fagles
Rage—Goddess, sing the rage of Peleus’ son Achilles,
murderous, doomed, that cost the Achaeans countless losses,
hurling down to the House of Death so many sturdy souls,
great fighters’ souls, but made their bodies carrion,
feasts for the dogs and birds,
and the will of Zeus was moving toward its end.
Begin, Muse, when the two first broke and clashed,
Agamemnon lord of men and brilliant Achilles.
>Lattimore
Sing, goddess, the anger of Peleus' son Achilles
and its devastation, which put pains thousand-fold upon the Achaians,
hurled in their multitudes to the house of Hades strong souls
of heroes, but gave their bodies to be the delicate feasting
of dogs, of all birds, and the will of Zeus was accomplished
since that time when first there stood in division of conflict
Atreus’ son the lord of men and brilliant Achilleus.

>>24531612
For the Odyssey, avoid Pope. Half of it was ghostwritten by other people, and Pope himself self-admittedly put less effort into his parts.

>Fitzgerald
Sing in me, Muse, and through me tell the story
of that man skilled in all ways of contending,
the wanderer, harried for years on end,
after he plundered the stronghold
on the proud height of Troy.
He saw the townlands
and learned the minds of many distant men,
and weathered many bitter nights and days
in his deep heart at sea, while he fought only
to save his life, to bring his shipmates home.
But not by will nor valor could he save them,
for their own recklessness destroyed them all—
children and fools, they killed and feasted on
the cattle of Lord Hêlios, the Sun,
and he who moves all day through heaven
took from their eyes the dawn of their return.
Of these adventures, Muse, daughter of Zeus,
tell us in our time, lift the great song again.
>Lattimore
Tell me, Muse, of the man of many ways, who was driven
far journeys, after he had sacked Troy’s sacred citadel.
Many were they whose cities he saw, whose minds he learned of,
many the pains he suffered in his spirit on the wide sea,
struggling for his own life and the homecoming of his companions.
Even so he could not save his companions, hard though
he strove to; they were destroyed by their own wild recklessness,
fools, who devoured the oxen of Helios, the Sun God,
and he took away the day of their homecoming. From some point
here, goddess, daughter of Zeus, speak, and begin our story.
>Fagles
Sing to me of the man, Muse, the man of twists and turns …
driven time and again off course, once he had plundered
the hallowed heights of Troy.
Many cities of men he saw and learned their minds,
many pains he suffered, heartsick on the open sea,
fighting to save his life and bring his comrades home.
But he could not save them from disaster, hard as he strove—
the recklessness of their own ways destroyed them all,
the blind fools, they devoured the cattle of the Sun
and the Sungod blotted out the day of their return.
Launch out on his story, Muse, daughter of Zeus,
start from where you will—sing for our time too.
>Chapman
The man, O Muse, inform, that many a way
Wound with his wisdom to his wished stay;
That wander’d wondrous far, when he the town
Of sacred Troy had sack’d and shiver’d down;
The cities of a world of nations,
With all their manners, minds, and fashions,
He saw and knew; at sea felt many woes,
Much care sustain’d, to save from overthrows
Himself and friends in their retreat for home;
But so their fates he could not overcome,
Though much he thirsted it. O men unwise,
They perish’d by their own impieties!
That in their hunger’s rapine would not shun
The oxen of the lofty-going Sun,
Who therefore from their eyes the day bereft
Of safe return. These acts, in some part left,
Tell us, as others, deified Seed of Jove.

>>24531608 (OP)
https://gwern.net/doc/borges/1932-borges-thehomericversions.pdf

The worst translation I’ve ever read is Lattimore’s. Cumbrersome and needlessly overwrought, all with the pretext of being closer to the original. Lattimore is dishonest; Pope’s reworking of Homer is more honest, as it doesn’t hide that the translation‘s object is as much the homeric text as the language of Pope himself.
Spanish translation are still the best desu.

>>24531612
>>24531615
Appreciate the examples anon. I'm definitely thinking of getting Fagles' version for both.

>>24531630
When in doubt, choose Fagles. Regardless his translations will not ruin anything in the story, in the future you can always read another one but Fagles is the best for a first read if you do not know exactly what you are looking for

>>24531630
He also did the Aeneid if you're interested.
>Fitzgerald
I sing of warfare and a man at war.
From the sea-coast of Troy in early days
He came to Italy by destiny,
To our Lavinian western shore,
A fugitive, this captain, buffeted
Cruelly on land as on the sea
By blows from powers of the air—behind them
Baleful Juno in her sleepless rage.
And cruel losses were his lot in war,
Till he could found a city and bring home
His gods to Latium, land of the Latin race,
The Alban lords, and the high walls of Rome.
>Mandelbaum
I sing of arms and of a man: his fate
had made him fugitive; he was the first
to journey from the coasts of Troy as far
as Italy and the Lavinian shores.
Across the lands and waters he was battered
beneath the violence of High Ones, for
the savage Juno's unforgetting anger;
and many sufferings were his in war—
until he brought a city into being
and carried in his gods to Latium;
from this have come the Latin race, the lords
of Alba, and the ramparts of high Rome.
>Lombardo
Arms I sing—and a man,
The first to come from the shores
Of Troy, exiled by Fate, to Italy
And the Lavinian coast; a man battered
On land and sea by the powers above
In the face of Juno's relentless wrath;
A man who also suffered greatly in war
Until he could found his city and bring his gods
Into Latium, from which arose
The Latin people, our Alban forefathers,
And the high walls of everlasting Rome.
>Fagles
Wars and a man I sing—an exile driven on by Fate,
he was the first to flee the coast of Troy,
destined to reach Lavinian shores and Italian soil,
yet many blows he took on land and sea from the gods above—
thanks to cruel Juno's relentless rages—and many losses
he bore in battle too, before he could found a city,
bring his gods to Latium, source of the Latin race,
the Alban lords and the high walls of Rome.
>Ahl
Arms and the man I sing of Troy, who first from its seashores
Italy-bound, fate's refugee, arrived at Lavinia's
Coastlands. How he was battered about over land, over high deep
Seas by the powers above! Savage Juno's anger remembered
Him, and he suffered profoundly in war to establish a city,
Settle his gods into Latium, making this land of the Latins
Future home to the Elders of Alba and Rome's mighty ramparts.
>Dryden
Arms, and the Man I sing, who forc'd by Fate,
And haughty Juno's unrelenting Hate;
Expell'd and exil'd, left the Trojan Shoar:
Long Labours, both by Sea and Land he bore
And in the doubtful War, before he won
The Latian Realm, and built the destin'd Town:
His banish'd Gods restor'd to Rites Divine,
And setl'd sure Succession in his Line:
From whence the Race of Alban Fathers come,
And the long Glories of Majestick Rome.

>>24531608 (OP)
Johann Heinrich Voß

>>24531612
this always struck me as a stupid comparison to make. what could this mean to someone who’s never read homer, doesn’t know anything about the text. just which one sounds better? and is the invocation really the best excerpt for that?

>>24531688
>just which one sounds better
Yes. Accuracy is irrelevant unless you're writing a dissertation or something. The end result, or how good it sounds in your ear, is all that matters.
Besides, they're all more or less accurate. Except Pope, obviously.

>>24531608 (OP)
the one who read him from the age of six

>>24531702
if someone’s new to homer, is the best move giving them only the opening lines and asking which sounds nicest? just close your eyes and pick the prettiest one like it’s a shampoo bottle. who cares what the words mean.

Poor Cowper's never mentioned
>>24531612
>Cowper's Iliad
Achilles sing, O Goddess! Peleus’ son;
His wrath pernicious, who ten thousand woes
Caused to Achaia’s host, sent many a soul
Illustrious into Ades premature,
And Heroes gave (so stood the will of Jove)5
To dogs and to all ravening fowls a prey,
When fierce dispute had separated once
The noble Chief Achilles from the son
Of Atreus, Agamemnon, King of men.
>>24531615
>Cowper's Odyssey
Muse make the man thy theme, for shrewdness famed
And genius versatile, who far and wide
A Wand’rer, after Ilium overthrown,
Discover’d various cities, and the mind
And manners learn’d of men, in lands remote.
He num’rous woes on Ocean toss’d, endured,
Anxious to save himself, and to conduct
His followers to their home; yet all his care
Preserved them not; they perish’d self-destroy’d
By their own fault; infatuate! who devoured10
The oxen of the all-o’erseeing Sun,
And, punish’d for that crime, return’d no more.
Daughter divine of Jove, these things record,
As it may please thee, even in our ears.

Samuel Butler

>>24531741
good answer

>>24531681
Post an excerpt you goddam kraut

>>24531608 (OP)
Sorry, you have to learn Greek. Translating poetry is like trying to get the experience of going to a ballet across by describing it to someone.

>>24532892
Greek is a difficult language, and the ancients - despite what some would have you believe - weren’t in the business of writing for grammarians. They were storytellers, moralists, entertainers. Homer, I suspect, would be appalled at the idea that only a select few, buried in dictionaries, are permitted to enjoy his song.

>>24532947
To him it wasn't a select few buried in dictionaries, because he sang in the common language of his time. A translation can certainly capture the themes and general feel, but so much of what makes poetry beautiful is tied up in a specific language- not so much grammatical minutiae, but the spirit of it, the habits of thought it embodies. So like yes, a translation of Homer is better than nothing, but it's not Homer. If you want to get as close as you can without learning Greek, read several translations. It's like looking at multiple two-dimensional photographs of a three-dimensional object from different angles.

Fagles is good for a starter. Lattimore is the supreme answer. Fitzgerald works in a pinch. Pope and Butler should be avoided.

>>24532955
The aim of these translations isnt archaeological, it’s relational. Making a dead author living to a generation other than his own. A poem's prosperity is in the ear of him that hears it. It takes two people to say a thing - a sayee as well as a sayer - and by parity of reasoning a poem's original audience and environment are integral parts of the poem itself. They blend into one another. Change either, and some corresponding change will be necessary in the other, if the original harmony between them is to be preserved.

As for the notion that reading multiple translations is like inspecting a statue from different angles, it strikes me as overcomplicating what should be a direct encounter.

Emily Wilson

>>24531608 (OP)
For a modern, easy to understand translation read Ian Johnston
>Sing, Goddess, sing of the rage of Achilles, son of Peleus— that murderous anger which condemned Achaeans to countless agonies and threw many warrior souls deep into Hades, leaving their dead bodies carrion food for dogs and birds— all in fulfillment of the will of Zeus.
>>24531612
These are all pseudish translations, hard to understand for modern audiences.
Only Pope is good because it has poetic merit but at the great price of understanding.

>>24532090
Learn to use Google

>>24531621
Low iq post. IS Lattimore's translation more accurate or not? Of course it is, so there's no 'dishonesty' false pretext. And it is also the product of Lattimore's unique poetic voice since he was also a poet. Some people get filtered by the latter, but I found it beautiful and the grammatical abstruseness a small hill to get over.

>>24533146
I also downloaded this one, but apparently it's along the line of a feminist take on The Odyssey. Also from the excerpt I read it was simple to read but lacked the soul of other translations.

>>24533728
Yea I think Fagles is the go to here. Wilson is for zoomers who can't handle language.

>>24533728
astounding that someone who hasn’t read homer (besides excerpts of different translations) can be an authority

>>24533728
The eighteenth-century scholar Richard Bentley remarked that the Iliad was written for men and the Odyssey for women.

>>24531741
From the few bits I've read, Butler is the one I like the most, except for the roman god names. Is there a similar one with greek names? Or is there some homemade epub where someone changed the names?

>>24531608 (OP)
Someone post the meme with all the different people arguing over the best translation

>>24533431
Yes faggot, I used google and read the first hundred lines, it was just as good or worse as the other translations in this thread, only I was the one who had to dig up your irrelevant krautslop when (YOU) were the one who shilled it. The worst part is this isn't even the first time I've seen this non-entity of german pride shilled here, yet when pressed, ye scurry away and provide the same backbone that has never stood for anything

>blocks your path

>>24535473
Is his good

>>24535871
As poetry, yes, one of the best epics in the English language. As an accurate translation of Homer? Not really, although he successfully translates many of the poetic virtues of Homer's language into English. There's no other English translation of Homer that is quite as awe inspiring in its towering strength and muscularity. When he hits home, he hits with the force of a titan.

>>24531608 (OP)
https://bibliothekai.ktema.org/texts/2/translations/?trans=494&trans=1636&hideOriginal=true

In case anyone wants to compare the translations more easily

>>24535871
He can make you believe Homer was an Englishman.

>>24535399
You have pleb taste if that’s your verdict, the German translation is much superior