I'm serious here.
I have this idea that people seem to read literature to "improve" themselves as persons. Yet when I meet someone who is well read and cultured, I can't help but feel that they are deeply normalfags, as in, fucking stupid and useless. Some of these people are really pretentious as well.
Blogging time: I had a gf who had been a teacher and had to read a lot for work, all kinds of stuff. She didn't seem to want to hear anything about my habits, about why I did or did not do something, about the technical stuff I do as a hobby and as part of my job, which has made me improve my standards of life far more than I had ever dreamed. We almost never talked anything even mildly "intellectual" as well. I tried motivating her to learn some of the stuff I did, and even basic math to make her understand some of my spending habits, but she was completely uninterested in anything other than my "emotional" and "loving" side. I found this really sad. I felt alone. It made me think she didn't really want to improve her life. She cried about the difference in our salaries and how I was stingy (I was born in a poor family and had worked some summers since I was 6...). She opposed most of my suggestions on how to spend our money and wanted me to spend money on useless shit. Meanwhile, I was trying to find a good place to buy with my (little) savings. In the end, I thought we were not compatible and left her. I thought none of the books and stuff she read gave her some common sense to understand why a guy who was born poor was trying to take advantage of his temporarily privileged position ASAP...
This experience left me even more confident in my thought that most literature is just entertainment, and mostly a waste of time. I'd rather read technical stuff and science and technology news...
Pic unrelated.
>>24533106 (OP)This thread is not meant to offend anyone, btw. I really want to know what you gain from reading literary fiction books. I wonder if my experiences are not enough to build stereotypes of people who read a lot.
>>24533121No, and that's why I'm asking. I'm just curious.
>>24533106 (OP)This doesn't have anything to do with literature but that sucks about your ex. She was most likely being willfully ignorant. "You cannot wake one that is pretending to be sleeping"
>>24533126I read because it feels good
>>24533106 (OP)It passes time and helps me answer some questions on Jeopardy.
>>24533106 (OP)I read because it's a fun exercise in creativity to imagine the scenes of a story playing in your mind. There's certain movies like LOTR where I deeply regret watching the movie first because thats all you can mentally picture when reading the book.
>>24533121I also thought of it as a way to read other perspectives on things and experiences. Guess it's not that either lmao.
>>24533130>"You cannot wake one that is pretending to be sleeping"I guess so. I'm not the most reliable guy either, but...
I felt kind of useless and sad. But I also felt sad for her.
I remember one episode in which she came up with that "mansplaining" crap and that made me feel like shit. I had talked to her about how I hated not being able to express my opinion on different topics, and the mansplaining stuff was kind of a mark for me to just stop trying to explain anything at all. IIRC things went downhill from there.
>>24533135>>24533149>>24533160I see. That's cool, I guess. I wish I could be entertained by most literary fiction books.
I like reading books about politics, history, some philosophy, some science fiction. Some literary books are good too, but I only ever read short tales.
>>24533169Stick to reading what you like, I think you will definitely learn a lot more.
>>24533188I wish I could read books on how to deal with people, esp. women. I read a bit about psychology when I was a kid and still have a hard time understanding them... I do know have some traumas but, no idea how to stop being a retard during some situations, like when I get too emotional.
>>24533106 (OP)I consider it entertainment like any other piece of media. Morally it is equivalent to watching TV or a movie or listening to music, there is no difference.
Sure, some pieces of literature can help you better understand yourself through asking interesting questions and reflecting you back, but that is true of any good piece of media with soul in it. The key word being 'good'. A lot of modern TV/movies is corporate slop, but the same can be said about a lot of books. People just ignore the literature that is slop because it isn't that in your face about it.
There's also the fact that literature as a whole has had a history that is several thousand years old. Whereas modern media has only existed for 70 or so years. That's several thousand extra years of time for the cream to rise to the top. So while most of literature is crap (like most of all media) the chaff is forgotten and the quality stuff is preserved. This leads to a lot of intellectualism about literature as a whole being superior, but it's really only the case that it's older -- and had more time to 'ripen' so to say.
In the end it's a story like anything else. Entertainment first. Maybe a way to frame interesting questions about people or society and help you understand some other things along the way.
>Avant que d'entamer notre troisième et dernière question, quelles sont les règles de l'art d'écrire le roman? nous devons, ce me semble, répondre à la perpétuelle objection de quelques esprits atrabilaires, qui, pour se donner le vernis d'une morale, dont souvent leur cœur est bien loin, ne cessent de vous dire, à quoi servent les romans? A quoi ils servent, hommes hypocrites et pervers? car vous seuls faites cette ridicule question; ils servent à vous peindre tels que vous êtes, orgueilleux individus qui voulez vous soustraire au pinceau, parce que vous en redoutez les effets: le roman étant, s'il est possible de s'exprimer ainsi, le tableau des mœurs séculaires, est aussi essentiel que l'histoire, au philosophe qui veut connaître l'homme; car le burin de l'une ne le peint que lorsqu'il se fait voir, et alors ce n'est plus lui; l'ambition, l'orgueil couvrent son front d'un masque qui ne nous représente que ces deux passions, et non l'homme; le pinceau du roman, au contraire, le saisit dans son intérieur... le prend quand il quitte ce masque, et l'esquisse, bien plus intéressante, est en même temps bien plus vraie, voilà l'utilité des romans; froids censeurs qui ne les aimez pas, vous ressemblez à ce cul-de-jatte qui disait aussi, et pourquoi fait-on des portraits?
>>24533106 (OP)I hate poor fucks like you and your utilitarian hangover. Money won't fix your inferiority complex little timmy neither blaming literature for your ex leaving you.
As per your question literature did provide meaning to my lives and many people here and I don't need it to improve my life. Life isn't about le improving and collecting gazillion dollars till day. I would rather let my life be wasted in exploring literature than doing le improving to earn $15/hour more to be a better conssoomer
I read because I like to write, and seeing what other people create fascinates me. I probably had a pretentious phase back in high school, but now I don't really care.
It's just the act of engaging with creation that I enjoy.
I read literature for entertainment
The idea that my primary motivation for reading literature is self development is a revolting one
the point is to enjoy whatever you are comfortable with and no it doesn't make you smarter or open minded if you weren't already
>>24533228Money is a tool. In this case, it might help me escape poverty for once. And I left her. She started to hate me anyway, so, whatever.
>>24533241I didn't mean to say "self-improvement" as in retarded personal self-improvement books, but as in using books as a way to get a peek on other peoples lives and experiences to avoid making the same mistakes or to learn how to behave in some situations. Social stuff.
So I guess I was wrong.
Still, you can see that some people use books to "provide meaning" to their lives, as
>>24533228 says. So I wasn't that wrong either. I didn't need books for that, btw. I just needed to take a look at reality.
So, YMMV as they say.
>>24533169In time you will come to realise that she was a lot worse than it seemed at the time. Either she was choosing to be thoughtless which is unbearable or she was incaoable of being thoughtful which is insufferable.
Reading is always fun, especially fiction. It's just like music in the sense that you can tell quite quickly if something is for you or not.
>>24533201>I wish I could read books on how to deal with peopleYou would like Knausgaard's My Struggle series. It is autobiographical but weaves itself through some interesting tangents. Just give that a shot you can find them all on annasarchive.
>>24533301>In time you will come to realise that she was a lot worse than it seemed at the timeWell, who knows. I hope not, actually. I hope it all was my mistake for not being social and talkative and trusting enough, and that she's as smart as I thought she was.
>>24533304Thanks anon for the suggestion. Just checked there is a whole series of book there, as you said.
>>24533106 (OP)Using a failed relationship to reinforce your views is pretty sad. It seems like you associate reading literature with a bad time in your life and this bleeds out into your biases.
I used to be with a woman that shared most of my interests, my passions, life goals etc. That relationship didn't work out (don't worry dear reader, she is fat now) but I never let my negative association with her steal potential future joy from me.
Do yourself a favour, read "Stoner" by John Williams, it's a great book, pretty short and a lot of the themes in it will feel pretty close to home for you.
>a million bin ladens will bloom
i get the point but, wasnt the entire ultimate truth of the whole stupid war, the fact that bin laden didn't actually do shit to america, and instead americas amazingly brilliant self righteousness rationalized a justification to make him enemy no1 because he did some bad not nice stuff that we already do, or leaders we back and support already do. but because we are da police, unironically when the police do bad stuff (before BLM and ACAB took off) it was always le good because it could always be rationalized and justified against the abstraction that is "crime".
>>24533106 (OP)>I had a gfStopped reading there you normie.
>>24533106 (OP)You sound like some massive seething loser, why were you even with this woman if you were so incompatible? Probably because you were too worthless to search for someone else.
>>24533366AFAIK bin laden had literally nothing to do with Iraq. also, he had been a CIA asset (or some shit) against the soviets in afghanistan. bin laden was a rich guy.
the sad thing is that reality doesn't work like that. a million bin ladens were not born.. Iraqi people might not give a shit anymore about the invasion.
also, some famous journalist said bin laden wasn't killed in a random place. he was living in a pakistani prison when americans "found him", and the american military and politicians made a whole circus of the whole thing.
>>24533436Yeah, thats what I thought. That basically bin laden was a sort of not so "nice" dictator not sanitized enough for le epic first world America. I literally not too long ago saw some retard saying "why dont we assassinate more bad guys like bin laden?" on YouTube. Its genuinely kind of crazy how like stuck in their own circular self validating perceptions Americans are. Bin laden didnt deserve death anymore than 90% of other garbage leaders we support or even elect.
But yeah my intuition tells me youre right about Iraq, i feel like way more shit would have gone down if they really gave a fuck about the way we destroyed their entire country. I mean WE never really recovered from Iraq ironically, but who even talks about Iraqis anymore or what the fuck they think or do?
>>24533106 (OP)Escapism aside, the value of literature wrt personal development is similar to the value of having a poignant life experience. Much of the understanding we come to about the human condition could theoretically be arrived at by careful, quasi-scientific investigation. But we seldom actually learn that way. Standout experiences in my own life prompt deep reflection about myself and my relationships with others; narrative art does the same. Great literature is like a masterfully curated facsimile of the sorts of life events. Its power comes from the emotional sway it holds over us. By getting us invested in the lives of imaginary people authors compel us to get more invested in our own.
>>24534245>we seldom actually learn that way. Standout experiences in my own life prompt deep reflection about myself and my relationships with others; narrative art does the same>Its power comes from the emotional sway it holds over usI mean, you could get the same from non-fiction literature (philosophy, history, even some journalism) too. Or from movies and TV series, or documentaries, or whatever.
Not trying to shit on literature, but it's not like there are more, say, efficient alternatives.
>>24536216Imagine being a sensitive conspiratard like you.
Just answer the question, you faggot. You could have skipped the blog post like other people ITT did.
>>24533106 (OP)art justifies itself. it's a finer and higher pleasure than mere masturbation. the soul unfolds its wings. but you're a faggot who sucks the cock of mere expedience, and such will never know such sublime and truly human joys.
>>24534334while history depicts what happened to a single person, literature depicts what is typical, what is customary, what might have happened. History speaks of one man, myth speaks of a million men. This is what gives it its power, and why history is so dull and long-winded
>>24536317>>24536323Anons... Have you ever tried using your imagination instead of having someone else create fantasy for you? Like, when reading history books, can't you put yourself in the feet of some random person that happened to be in some place at some moment?
Also
>>24536323>history depicts what happened to a single personWhat the fuck? History books describe events that affected whole societies. They aren't about specific people, they are about power, consequences, events, ...
I began reading again to improve my literacy. People did not understand me half the time and I felt I needed to express myself better.
>>24533106 (OP)well, you could say a book teaches you about the author - his own weaknesses and follies - and, since you must know that no failings are unique, you may be helped to acquire tolerance for them in others. if the novel comes off at all, the reader will accompany the writer in some parallel process of self-discovery.
>>24533106 (OP)This is a literature board you retard. Read whatever you want. Why did you waste time with that bitch? What a colossal waste. If that fucking thing didn't shit out a kid you wasted your life on some mindless entertainment and found out the bitch can't do anything entertaining. Maybe you should start reading.
>>24533106 (OP)to garner information and use it for my writing project.
>>24533304those books are gay as fuck
>>24533121of course, just look at the fags who take pride in reading x books per y.
>>24533169>I had talked to her about how I hated not being able to express my opinion on different topics, and the mansplaining stuff was kind of a mark for me to just stop trying to explain anything at all. IIRC things went downhill from there.Are you antisemite at least?
>>24533210>atrabilaires*jots it down*
this desserve a translation really
>What use are they, you hypocritical and perverse men? For you alone ask this ridiculous question; they serve to paint you as you truly are—proud individuals who wish to escape the brush because you fear its effects. The novel, if one may put it this way, being a portrait of secular morals, is just as essential to the philosopher who seeks to understand man as history is. [...] Cold-hearted critics who do not like them—you are like that legless man who also asked, "And why do people make portraits?"
>>24533106 (OP)>most literature is just entertainmentObjectively true
>I'd rather read technical stuff and science and technology news...Subjectively bad take. MOST literature sucks, but that's like watching She Hulk and saying all TV sucks, or seeing Ghostbusters and saying all Films suck, seeing one misquote and saying all news sucks, and so on. It's just a silly thing to say, anon.
