Why even read the Old Testament if Jesus invalidated it? It would be better to read the NT twice than the OT + NT

in Christianity the Bible is theoretically all the knowledge you ever need to know spiritually, so they absolutely shun anything that isn't the Bible. Technically the Old Testament operates under an old covenant but the exact reasons for why and how are a little unclear. The Christian theory
>(there is a New Covenant under Jesus' blood)
is different from the de facto lore:
>Jesus is all you need and also he was a Jew praise Jesus we don't have to do Jew things but Jews are extra holy because they do Jew things aren't so lucky to have Jews with a real religious culture praise God praise Jesus amen don't forget to help Israel through their tough times getting attacked by Gaza

One great irony is that Christian literacy to read the Bible drove literacy in general and then Western civilization. Now it's almost lapsing back again into "only the priest reads for us"

>>24560959
>Christian literacy to read the Bible drove literacy in general and then Western civilization
For centuries the church sought to gatekeep the bible, and forbade any copies that weren't in Latin so the plebs couldn't read it for themselves. They acted to retard the spread of literacy.

>>24560959
because the covenant was fulfilled. the israelites were blessed to bring forth the messiah despite them fucking up over and over again.

>>24561024
they did have a point though, however sinister it was in execution. look at what protestants have done since the reformation. thousands upon thousands of denominations due to sola scripture interpretations. the world has basically tower of babeled itself with ideas and dozens of translations.

>>24561024
Catholic monasteries may not have been broad democratising forces of widespread literacy, but they were bastions of written culture during Europe's darkest times. Then protestants printed ten billion bibles and spread them. Preservation into distribution.

He didnt invalidate it. Thats why he says to not change anything. He just "fulfilled" the law whatever the fuck that means. It seems like ridiculous word magic.

>>24561193
His teaching literally contradicts teachings from the OT.

There's history and prophecies in the Old Testament as well as Psalms. If you're only interested in philosophy I guess yeah a lot of it will be useless, but Psalms should at least be of use.
>>24560959
>in Christianity the Bible is theoretically all the knowledge you ever need to know spiritually, so they absolutely shun anything that isn't the Bible.
Only in Protestantism.

>>24561193
He says to ignore OT laws if they are inconvenient like when Elijah and his men were eating in a temple on the Sabbath. It is okay to eat from the temple's food and to do work on the Sabbath like when he (Jesus) cured the leper. He also said all foods are now clean.

>>24560959
>One great irony is that Christian literacy to read the Bible drove literacy in general and then Western civilization. Now it's almost lapsing back again into "only the priest reads for us"
Accurate but depressing take, nobody looks at primary sources anymore. ChatGPT made this problem an order of magnitude worse

>>24560943 (OP)
The OT is only included to show how Jesus realized so many prophecies. Of course the important part is the NT but the OT is there to exalt the NT.

>>24560943 (OP)
Thesis and anti-thesis. You need both.

>>24561193
it's just that the english 'fulfill' strayed too much from its etymological meaning, the verb used in Greek means to make full, the christ completed the law, bringing it to perfection

>implying Jesus invalidated everything in the OT
The whole bible is about Jesus. Without the OT there is no case for Jesus being the prophesied Messiah. You should read more.

>>24561612
Galatians, Paulus' letter. He says that the OT was but a placeholder for the New Testament.
ALL OF THE OT is invalidated. Christus redeemed.

>>24561199
Maybe read the OT then read the NT again. Or did you just watch one of the Jesus movies?

>>24561752
>Jesus invalidates mosaic law
>Oh ok so the entire Old Testament is invalidated
Ok so I guess you don't believe that "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

>>24561612
The Pharisees are generally ridiculed by the gospel writers for adhering to OT law. They are seen as backwards. They oppose Jesus for leading a new path.

if that's your reasoning you might as well read the koran thrice

>>24561776
You realize the Old Testament is not just mosaic law? Jesus and His apostles constantly referenced the Old Testament to support their new path. The whole contrast between how Jesus cites the OT and how the Pharisees used OT law for their self-serving intentions is crucial to understanding what made Jesus so significant.

>>24560943 (OP)
Matthew 5:17

>>24561797
>The whole contrast between how Jesus cites the OT and how the Pharisees used OT law for their self-serving intentions is crucial to understanding what made Jesus so significant.

At some times, Jesus actually criticizes the Pharisees for being too dogmatic when the OT law were more like guidelines. The part where Jesus tells his followers to not fast on the sabbath and that Elijah or Solomon and his men ate of the temple priest’s food they had set aside which was not for them- that is a major one I can immediately think of where Jesus basically tells them to leave the laws of the OT behind. Jesus saying as well that all food is clean is another example. He clearly had something against the Pharisees for not seeing the forest for the trees. They dogmatically followed laws and made a great show of their subservience to the laws when spiritually they were as far from god as possible

>>24561775
it doesnt matter anymore. The OT is a distracting from His Word

>>24561952
NT is far more influenced by Platonist philosophy and Heraclitus ie Logos but OT does have some bits of possible Greek influence in there foreseeing what is to come - “I am that I am” as God being the One, ungenerated Being. I really don’t know enough about the OT but from what I do know I see it as like Bronze Age warrior god type stuff with some sparse metaphysical principles sprinkled in.

>>24561952
It doesn't matter that God created the heavens and earth? You should look up >>24561893
I'm going to take Jesus' word over yours lmao

>>24561764
How do you explain the Mountain Sermon then? Jesus basically says „the old book says one thing, but that’s wrong and do this other thing instead“.

>>24560943 (OP)
>Why even read the Old Testament if Jesus invalidated it?
Why would a fictional fucking chippie change my opinion on hot trans engineers wearing socks rebuilding the walls of Jerusalem?

Take your "in-universe" speculation to a Calvin thread.

>>24560943 (OP)
Because despite christians and jews believing literally opposite things, there has been a concentrated effort to keep the old books around to lend an air of legitimacy to the religion.

>>24560959
I’ve met homeless that know the bible better than these so called preachers

>>24560943 (OP)
OP is right. OT leads to retards larping as shitty jews.

>>24563390
Sure you are, OP.
>>24561893

it would seem that no one in this thread has read the NT, let alone the whole bible

>>24561993
You have it backwards.

>>24561993
>>24563473

>>24560943 (OP)
He didn't. He fulfilled it by living a perfect Jewish life. And offered mercy for those who have a hard time. You must follow the Old and New Testament as much as you can.

>>24560943 (OP)
Guess lgbt is not a single then. :)

>>24563435
I have read the bible, hence I conclude that the OT is a waste of time. During a service, much time is wasted focusing on some old Jewish laws that don't even apply to us Christians.
>>24563398
that ain't me

>>24563850
*sin

>>24563851
So then there's no such thing as sin for Christians then because all of them are in the OT.

>>24561024
the church has the right to gatekeep it. the church is “the pillar and ground of the truth.”

>>24560959
>One great irony is that Christian literacy to read the Bible drove literacy in general and then Western civilization. Now it's almost lapsing back again into "only the priest reads for us"
grok that tru?

>>24563851
>to us Christians
watching some youtube videos after you decide to pick up a larp does not make you a Christian
you are entirely ignorant not only of the whole of christian exegetical tradition, but of the new testament itself which is incomprehensible without a grounding in the old

this is not surprising though, as this is just a pol larp you picked and not the result of any spiritual or intellectual exertion

>>24564923
>"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them" Matthew 5:17
Jesus was clear as day here. But clearly some of these "Christians" think they know better than the Son of God. That speaks for itself.

>>24560943 (OP)
Sweet, yet another thread full of /pol/troons larping as Christians or pretending that they've found the secret that will completely upend theology forever.

>>24560943 (OP)
Jesus didn't invalidate the OT. Every teaching and prophecy in the OT culminates in Him. There is value in the OT, but the central teachings are present in a more explicit manner in the NT and the OT should always be read in light of the NT.
>>24561024
>the church sought to gatekeep the bible, and forbade any copies that weren't in Latin
Blatantly false.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_translations_in_the_Middle_Ages
>so the plebs couldn't read it for themselves
Plebs couldn't read the Bible or a bread recipe in Latin, Greek, English, Spanish or any language you tried to translate the texts into.

>>24560943 (OP)
"In the Old the New lies hidden; in the New the Old is laid open"
- St. Augustine
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.”
Matthew 5:17

>>24560943 (OP)
Jews are the main characters of history. They just are. I don’t know how they’ve done it. Somehow their fairy tales ended up being believed by half the world and all of the Europeans that conquered the globe. As a reward for persisting for so long and entrenching themselves in every society the Jews were even given their own country to help fulfill their fairy tale fantasies which are shared by American Senators for some reason. It’s just unbelievable when you think about it, really. Some random Jewish scribes made up Genesis 2500 years ago for shits and giggles and now half the fucking planet believes in talking snakes and angels. It’s just so obscene. How did this happen

>>24566601
Almost like their is something to this whole Christianity thing after all...

>>24566604
There isn’t. 20th century Atheists were genuinely right about religion and it’s a real shame that it has become a bit more taboo again to denounce it compared to the 2000s. There’s no more reason to treat something like Genesis as sacred truth than a Captain Underpants book. It’s made up on a whim, there’s nothing to it, there’s no depth, none of the Bible has any, they’re all just stories and failed prophecies and idiots who took them too seriously.

>>24566601
>>24566612
>it’s made up on a whim, there’s nothing to it, there’s no depth
So it's basically like your belief system, then.

>>24560943 (OP)
Okay Marcion

>>24560943 (OP)
Christians need to hide from the OT because it exposes what a complete lie the NT is. “Prophecies” that aren’t prophecies but retcons about passages that have nothing to do with Jesus as well as the complete absence of supposed “predictions” (ex. “The Nazarene”).
One of the first supposed heresies was the idea that there were two gods in the Bible, with the OT one being evil. Even to primitives with no other records it was that glaringly obvious there’s no continuity. This continues to our day as christians claim to “not be an OT guy” and otherwise just blatantly ignore it. Because it’s not the same fucking religion. Clearly.

The only problem is if the connection is bullshit so’s the rest of it. Therefore, like nearly every congregation on the planet, safest is to just ignore the text existing. Handwave something about genesis and a flood and Jesus being predicted and that’s all they’ll ever know. Phew.

>>24566758
It has been proven by scholars that Genesis was made up in the 5th century BC to explain the origins of Jews under the Persians. Needless to say there is no garden of Eden, there is no Tower of Babel responsible for all human languages, there was no global flood that mysteriously left no trace of happening. It is all fiction made up by deceitful Jewish scribes, a people who continue their deception to this day.

>>24566825
Yes but have you considered the fact that one brief sentence in the Old Testament mentions a virgin (due to a mistranslation) and since Christians started claiming Mary was a virgin 100 years after Jesus that means he was clearly the Messiah

>>24566758
Calling people Reddit for saying the truth doesn’t work anymore