I don’t see Cioran come up much here but he was a S tier thinker who found a special way to deal with the unpleasantness of the human predicament specifically the modern ultra shit variant. I haven’t found someone else who can match his level of insights + style. Any Cioran-Stans around? Anyone find anyone else that scratches the same itch?

i subscribe to pessimist philosophy but i cant stand cioran, he just comes off as whining. Schopenhauer at least talked about other things like art

this romanian tramp is bad writer at best. the insights you spoke of are nonexistent. reading him you constantly feel like drowning, not due to dark topics but because you're reading someone trying to tackle subjects beyond their depth.

>>24566009 (OP)
I read him as a poet and enjoy his writing very much.

>>24566015
Maybe early Cioran. Later Cioran is more like a joker.
I like to thing he applied Kierkegaard's idea to the max: in the face of the tragedy of life, the only reasonable response is to laugh.

>>24566032
You haven’t read him much if at all is my educated guess.

To read temptation to exist and come out saying he was “out of his depth” is pants on head retarded. He captured western decline and the spiritual/psychical/ontological reasons for it as well as anyone ever save maybe Heidegger. I’d put his analysis up against Spengler, Carlyle, or Heidegger’s Seinsgeschichte directly.

Id actually say that Cioran took Heidegger’s call to embody a true history of being more than any other

Maybe why you think he’s “out of his depth” was because he wasn’t some boring ass anglophone syllogist building a dry, boring and useless systematic philosophy that makes no real difference for anyone.

I do understand that when something’s over your head it’s easier to say it’s dumb than admit you got filtered. Cioran does filter many.

Cioran understood that when the madman in a people dies, when they become too sane, to reasoned, that’s it, that’s the end, they and their civilization falls. It’s like how as soon as a people are rationally deciding whether or not to have a baby, birth rates plummet.

He managed to weave prose, self revelation, poetry, and aphorism into a scream that avoided the traps set by the dead ontology of Plato/Aristotle.

I’d advise people to skip heights of despair and go to temptation to exist if they want to see what the guy offers.

He’s also funny as hell.

>>24566509
this post doesn't mean anything. it's stupid, you're stupid. lose the holier than thou attitude because it looks really out of place.

this is all the response you deserve.

>>24566009 (OP)
>>24566509
I lost respect for after he started sucking jewish dick in post-war period.

Have you read People of Solitaries? What do you think about it?

>>24566673
You're fag.

>>24566673
It’s funny when people are involved in discourse that they cant keep up with and get offended. It’s like a negro getting mad because you use a word they don’t understand. That’s you, feeling disrespected because you have no fucking idea what E.C.’s talking about or me as a result. I really don’t think you’ve even read Cioran seriously. If you had you might say his work was irrelevant to the project of philosophy because it’s so off the wall (still wrong) but not that he’s “out of his depth” intellectually. the dude couldn’t have been out of his depth anywhere in the humanities. His intellectual horsepower was just too fucking high and thats’s obvious to anyone who reads him and can keep up instead of throwing the book accross the room and yelling “oooga booga” like you. Why don’t you go somewhere and discuss some pseud or genre author that doesn’t give you an inferiority complex.

>>24566692

I have read it. I feel mixed. I think he gets to the kill shot a few times and doesn’t take it. I guess he is being intellectually honest that Jews have played an outsized role in the direction of the west and are a unique group. But he doesn’t go in on their treachery and the role they played in domesticating Europeans, something he critiques earlier in the book. He does say things like “their messianic hope was less of a dream
Of conquering nations than destroying their Gods for the glory of yaweh. sinister theocracy that opposed polytheism
With its skeptical tonalities”

The feeling I get is that he knows who the Jew is and their natural subversion, but he couldn’t go as hard as he probably wanted to because he loved (on some level) and was stuck in France where even he had to go along to get along after WWiI aka suck Jewish cock. I don’t feel like his heart was in it though, he understands them too well.

I’d love to hear your thoughts though man. Please share. I’m just going through his works in the second time and I don’t fully understand how his thinking on some subjects changed from his more radical youth to when he started to be part of the scene hanging with Beckett and the like. Thanks dude, appreciate the discussion. Sorry about typos typed on phone

>>24566009 (OP)
I absolutely love him. He has helped me to "calm down" a lot more than any other thinker.

But one question. Does reading more of him actually help? I have read his aphorisms in The Trouble with Being Born, The Syllogisms of Bitterness, Drawn and Quartered, a few Essays from On The Hights of Despair. And he basically mentions that "What I know at sixty, I knew as well at twenty" and so on. The content doesn't really change, just the prose (which is incredible). So is there really any benefit in reading much from him?

>>24566842
I’ll try to answer this having read him for probably like 7 years off and on now:
I go back to him regularly when it feels like a certain part of modern life is getting to me and no one around me sees it let alone is able to speak articulately on it.
I choose the work based on what’s bugging me. Shitty intellectuals? Antathemas and admirations. The burden of lucidity during decline? The temptation to exist. Utopian political bullshit? A short history of decay. Raw depression and pessomism? The trouble with being born:heights of despair (different flavors).
Does that make sense?
Since you’ve read a good bit of his works you have a sort of map of what he gives you in a given area and can go to him
Accordingly. I think he works are great enough to keep going back too to really internalize if not the ideas themselves than at least the sensitivity to life and radical
I never fail to feel like I’m discovering new insights and finding new depths.
There’s a reason you can’t find a decent lecture on ciorans ideas and it’s usually just stuff on cioran the man (boring) or his place in the history of ideas. He’s too dense and I don’t know if anyone knows his ideas thoroughly enough to be conversant in them to really lecture. Maybe that’s just in the anglophone world.
Good to hear other people get something real and soothing/beneficial out of his work There’s only problem with reading him for me is it makes me want to write but if I hold myself to the standard of his work I can’t put together something even close. It’s hard to have bombs going off every other sentence. I try to blame my lack of time and space to work, but the truth probably is, he was just unusually gifted.

>>24566796
He sucked a lot of jewish dick after that essay in his Notebooks. Some Cioran anon posted these quote a while ago:

>"The only people to whom I relate are Jews"
>“I am metaphysically Jewish"
>"The only people I relate to deeply are Jews"

I'll share my thoughts on Cioran in few hours. I was probably the biggest Cioran shill back in 21 and 22. But now I don't like him anymore. I almost find him disgusting. I'll tell you why.

>>24566904
> I was probably the biggest Cioran shill back in 21 and 22. But now I don't like him anymore. I almost find him disgusting. I'll tell you why.
damn masterful suspense.

Why do things that sound embarrassing in English sound great in French?

>>24566889
Thank you very much. I like the answer.
But yeah revisiting him is definitely worth it. I have a copy of him in my backpack most of the time in case I am waiting somewhere for the train or some shit. And the more I read anything the more I understood his aphorisms in a different way.
Good thing is that i don't want to write. It just doesn't appeal to me. So I can enjoy his prose fully. Sadly I can't read french but it is still enjoyable in German too. I probably like it even more than Arno Schmidts or Bernhards prose.

>>24566009 (OP)
>Any Cioran-Stans around?
Yess, I love his voice.

>>24566796
>>24566904
>>24566908
First I want to make clear that why I find Cioran's taking side of Jews as a group totally disgusting. It's because he betrayed his own fierce anti-collectivism of A Short History of Decay, that volcanic prophet which enchanted us all. I don't care. A singular Jew or anyone can be "great". Jews or Jewish on the whole is a disgusting collectivist concept same as any other collective like Europeans or Blacks or Brown or Reptilians etc. But a collective can never be great. A collective is always disgusting.

I am in fever so I can not write a detailed account me growing out of Cioran. Here's tl;dr

I started reading Haikus, some clicked and I realized how Cioran was also so dogmatic and blind about his own truths same as any man out there. Dogmatic to a disgusting degree in terms of pessimism. All of these years I was trying to fit in. I thought that I was wise for knowing the "truth". I took Cioran's work as a Gospel and thought everyone else is a "misguided and foolish optimist". It just disgusts me now. Yes, a book can have life changing effects. Cioran's books made me extremely miserable. If you don't want to kill yourself then I don't see why would anyone read these books and if you already want to kill yourself then why would you read these books?

I have discovered that my nature is more contemplative and contrary to Cioran. I have been through a lot, don't get me wrong. There are some pessimistic "truths" that'll stay with me forever. But there are whole other range of sensations, visions, joy, unanswered questions, mysteries, myths etc.

>>24566673
Nah your post is shit that other anon wins.

>>24566509
>He’s also funny as hell.

Was it intentional though? I love his epic emo quotes and I'm wondering: were those shitposts ?

>>24566904
>I'll share my thoughts on Cioran in few hours. I was probably the biggest Cioran shill back in 21 and 22. But now I don't like him anymore. I almost find him disgusting. I'll tell you why.

Alright you make an interesting point, I want to hear more from you! Your crappy post above (assuming it was yours) is 100% excused.

>>24567034
>A singular Jew or anyone can be "great". Jews or Jewish on the whole is a disgusting collectivist concept same as any other collective like Europeans or Blacks or Brown or Reptilians etc. But a collective can never be great. A collective is always disgusting.


allez va te coucher, oublie ce que j'ai dit
coward

>>24567053
You're so cool for being miserable, anon. You're so wise for figuring out life. You're champ.

>>24567055
You're brave for thinking about death. You're so special. You're a metaphysical champ.

>>24567055
>>24567053
>Life fucks sucks, humans are monkeys who were conceived in a latrine and I want to kill myself and I also wish for the total eradication of human race and consciousness
>But Jews are pretty great
>I am metaphysically Jewish
Kek, yeah man "pessimists" are funny.

>>24567034
reminds me of how life is meaningless reddit types lose their shit when you say nigger with hard r. seems cioran was the same way. we are all hopeless individuals in a meaningless struggle, it doesn't matter whether humanity disappears or not but wishing chosen people would vanish, now that's unforgivable.

I understand the core of your frustration with him though. life is so bad that it will disappoint you by not being as bad as you initially thought it to be, ironically. that's why it's important to remain realistic and be moderate.

>>24567081
>I am metaphysically Jewish
that's such a banger man if you put together all of r/philosophy they couldn't come up with it.

>>24567082
>reminds me of how life is meaningless reddit types lose their shit when you say nigger with hard r. seems cioran was the same way. we are all hopeless individuals in a meaningless struggle, it doesn't matter whether humanity disappears or not but wishing chosen people would vanish, now that's unforgivable.
That's an extremely important point. And pessimists are not ready for this discussion. I would say that pessimists who wish for the annihilation of this planet and human race are worst than the most brutal tyrant in the history of humanity.

>that's why it's important to remain realistic and be moderate.
These successful pessimists are so fucking funny man. They tell young kids to kill themselves and be miserable yet they are/were well reputed and published writers with social lives, careers and girlfriends.

>>24567103
>I would say that pessimists who wish for the annihilation of this planet and human race are worst than the most brutal tyrant in the history of humanity.
yeah at least the tyrant is honest, unlike the metaphysical jew.

I'm metaphysically a nigger, how about that. I will wear jordans and burn all of my books. life ain't shit yo you betta off dead nigga. you don't talk about dem dezat people doe.

>>24567034
>Jew
I haven't read the Jew stuff from Cioran so i gotta believe you. That definitely a strange move from Cioran and doesn't really make any sense. Maybe he didn't mean it literally and a metaphor for something that happened to the Jews in general in that period. I mean a lot happend to them in the last century. But if it was meant literally from him that is definitely kinda stupid.

>Cioran miserable
I don't know if we have read the same Cioran or if we just interpreted him differently. His books seem kind of suicidal but after some point it isn't just "life is shit. End it" it is more like "Life is shit. Deal with it like this". He doesn't just offer you the possibility to be a sad emo but the possibility to kind of accept that suffering. I mean look at his interview f.e.. He seems happier than most optimists. I remember him mentioning once that he got extremely happy because riding his bicycle kind of cured his insomnia. Once you really understand his point of making everything, including suicide, look meaning- and pointless, you will notice that the only thing left to do is enjoy your life to the fullest. Of course that is difficult, but possible.

As far as I remember he is just an antinatalist and not some radical pro-suicide pro mass-extinction guy like some Mainländer or Hartmann. So he chill

>>24567084
The problem isn’t antisemitism, but passing as one, until the moment you say, "Yeah, of course I hate Jews, I hate all collectives", and we realize you're just an edgelord without the balls it takes to rise above the grate and lose them in the process. No, you’d rather slap them from the other side of the table to make a big show of yourself, certain you're out of anyone’s reach. But hey, watch out for that paving stone.

>>24566009 (OP)
Cioran is what a juvenile halfwit would consider a good pessimist philosopher. If you want a serious pessimist whose investigations are rigorous and not infantile hysterics read Peter Zapffe.

>>24567122
>I don't know if we have read the same Cioran
Oh please not this "Cioran is not miserable" meme again

>I remember him mentioning once that he got extremely happy because riding his bicycle kind of cured his insomnia.
Because he didn't wrote or read anything. Just lived his life. And then he became miserable again because started writing books once again.


>not some radical pro-suicide
Hmm, nice let's see Paul Cioran's quotes:

>No position is so false as having understood and still remaining alive.

>pro mass-extinction
Kek

"I believe in the salvation of humanity in the future of cyanide"

>"Nobility is only in the negation of existence, in a smile that surveys annihilated landscapes."

>So he chill
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I forgot but he literally admitted that he want to kill people by bashing their heads against the wall. Maybe Cioranfag numba 1 >>24566796 can help here to locate the source

>>24567143
He openly hated christcucks doe

>>24567149
>he didn’t wrote

>>24567149
>loves jews
>hates christians
keeps getting better and better

>>24567156
English is my fourth language. Just focus on the gist.

>>24567149
I think you take Cioran far to literally.
His books aren't meant to be "absolute truths" but more of a thought provoking read. He himself said that he can contradict himself on the same page a few times. So if you just take what he is saying and don't bother to interpret it, you will misunderstand him. Do you only read a few pages of Nietzsche and think hes edgy and happy that "God is dead"? Do you think his Gay science is about the technique to become a femboy?

>"[...] When they read a book of aphorisms, they say, "Oh, look what this fellow said ten pages back, now he's saying the contrary. He's not serious." Me, I can put two aphorisms that are contradictory right next to each other. Aphorisms are also momentary truths. They're not decrees [...]"

>“To attack the reasoning of a writer who likes little better than making assaults on reasoning itself, contradicting himself by method, in fact—strikes us as pointless.”

>“Sometimes I wish I were a cannibal – less for the pleasure of eating someone than for the pleasure of vomiting him.”

Brother you can't take this stuff literally.

Cioran thought of suicide as an "option". Because of this he always had this felling of freedom to do what he wants. If he was as miserably and pro suicide as you say why didn't he just kill himself?

How would you rank the pessimist canon?

Me personally? I'd say:

Michelstaedter >>> Mainlander >>> Cioran

>>24567198
>I think you take Cioran far to literally.
Oh he was pretending too be miserable for 1000 pages.
>you will misunderstand him.
No true Scotsman in fucking pessimism HAHAHAHAHAHA. I fucking can't

>>24567223
put piles of shit before C*oran

I didn't read him but I guess he's just one of those guys that tries to circle around the only sollution: suicide. Let's be honest if your life is hell than the only true sollution is painting your bedroom walls with the contents of your head, everything else is just another day in hell no matter with what you try to cope

>>24567240
Sorry for soLLution, esl here

>>24567240
So true.

As Stoics use say that door is always open. No one remains alive forcefully. One can always kill himself.

>>24566009 (OP)
This board hates him because he didn’t kill himself. I love his aphorisms and he’s also really funny as that other anon mentioned.

I am on the brink of a terrible realization...

>>24567034
That's about the same as going against them as a group as well. Not a great argument you're making.

>>24567273
>I wish for the eradication of whole humanity
Jews most affected. This statement is antisemitic.

>>24567228
There are several different ways to give knowledge to people. You have probably "only" read the people that give you their "truths" and thats it. Another way is more like being a "guide" and lead the reader to the their "truth". Cioran is the later.

>>24567253
Yeah sadly most people here don't really understand his philosophy.
They probably would be even more furious if they know he saved people from suicide. Short excerpt from one of his interviews:


JW: In an encounter like that, have you had the feeling
of saving him a little?
EMC: Yes, a little. I've had that feeling several times,
with girls particularly. I've always prevented them from
committing suicide. I've always tried to tell them that,
since one can kill oneself anytime, they should put it off.
But one should not abandon this idea.
JW: But you do feel a certain responsibility towards such
people.
EMC: I can't avoid it. My theory of suicide is that one
shouldn't kill oneself, one should make use of this idea in
order to put up with life. But I've been attacked for offer
ing an apology for suicide and not doing it myself. Yet
I haven't offered such an apology. I say that we have
only this recourse in life, and that our only consolation
is that we can quit this life when we want to. So, it's
a positive idea. Christianity is guilty of having fought
against this idea. One should say to people: If you find
life unbearable, tell yourself, "Well, I can give it up
when I want to." One should live thanks to this idea of
suicide. It's in the Syllogismes that I wrote, "Without the
idea of suicide, I would have killed myself from the start."

>>24567325
>Another way is more like being a "guide" and lead the reader to the their "truth".
Hmm, let's see Paul Cioran's guide for life

>We should repeat to ourselves, every day: I am one of the billions dragging himself across the earth’s surface. One, and no more. This banality justifies any conclusion, any behavior or action: debauchery, chastity, suicide, work, crime, sloth, or rebellion, … Whence it follows that each man is right to do what he does.

-Emil Cioran, The Trouble with Being Born

>>24567198
This is correct. Cioran was at war with Syllogistitic philosophy in the temptations to exist he literally blames it for the decline of western races.

He’s meant to be read as shotgun blasts of the subtle emotions. Aesthetic conceits that made life itself interesting enough to be worth living.

“A book written is a suicide delayed”
Clearly he saw that there was higher virtues, reasons to stay alive and bear suffering, he did not however think that philosophical treatise were going to get us there. Not in the way of Kan/Hegel etc… the dude was feeling his way around in the dark and finding packs of matches to light the way whether they were in the form of humor, aesthetic cultivation of a moment, ridicule, facing down the pains of life etc…

That’s why it’s lame to start looking at quotes of his in isolation and running them against logical fallacies like “no true scoteman” his measured anti-rationalism was the point. I don’t find him sad to read at all like the other pessimists. He wasn’t trying to build case for pessimism argument by argument like a Zappfe for example. He was dealing with his own pain live, like by line and showing one way of making life worth living: insight and humor itself.


>>24567146

I’ve read Zappfe and the other pessimists. Cioran wasnt attempting to be a philosopher in the usual sense, he was a PROSE POET if you read his work that way it makes sense.

Re the Jewish stuff, I could see these lines not being taken as “decrees” (he tells us directly as much about his aphorisme, they they are not decrees) and instead expressing poetically a truth along the lines of the fact that he was neurotic and deconstructionist, like a Jew.

That being said I wish he wouldn’t Jane even said that, because a European should feel disgust at any comparisons to need Ebola went to make the world into a void of homosexual nothingness.

>>24567034
A collective may be always disgusting on some level but in a history of decay he laments the death of spirit of the one race with inhabiting the planet that brought something of value. The only group on the planet worth anything that lifted the world up to meaning. The European was where the worlds soul was located until the European got stuck navel gazing and ceased to be mad, great, transcendent.

If anything you can connect Cioran to Zappfe in that Ciorans work is the sublimation of the fear of death and he must show it to be worse than it is, for the sublimation to work.

Reading Curran and looking did Kant or Zappfe is reading him wrong.

>>24567338
>>If anything you can connect Cioran to Zappfe in that Ciorans work is the sublimation
I have issues with it too. Zapffe pulled out a hierarchy out of his ass then gave pessimism the throne so did Tolstoy. I don't give a shit about their game.
>Reading Curran and looking did Kant or Zappfe is reading him wrong.
Shut the fuck up. In his interview he literally said that he believes in morality. And how do you defend morality if not for laws and rules which are Syllogistitic?

>>24567336
As I already told you, throwing random quotes at me won't change anything. You can't read him the way you apparently do. I recommend you to read the interview from Jason Weiss with Cioran. It is the one I quoted at the bottom of the post your answered to. Cioran is pretty direct there. More than in his books. You might grasp his basic ideas there.

>>24567394
>I recommend you to read the interview from Jason Weiss with Cioran.
That interview in which he was larping as the wholesome chugnus old man in a cute little paris apartment? I bet his dick wasn't working at that time.

Don't recommenced me anything by Cioran. I have read everything about him.

>throwing random quotes at me won't change anything.
No true Scotsman

>>24567405
>interview larping
Yeas exactly that interview. If you really did read it how tf do you think he actually wants to go around bashing peoples heads. At least at that point you have got to notice than he contradicts himself many times there.

>dick not working
It probably did. I mean his waifu did pay for most stuff and there got to be at least one reason (good sex) why she did that.

>did read everything
Then how tf do still don't know his philosophy.

>No true Scotsman
Nah me German. I won't be a true Scotsman. No matter how hard I try. I want to kill myself. Life hard. Like Cioran dick. But oh wait Cioran-kun was against suicide and I like him so I won't do it.

>>24567394
>>24567405
And the idea of suicide as freedom isn't his creation. That's a Stoic maxim. Fuck him. At least Stoics taught people ways to self improve and reduce the suffering, so did Schopenhauer. Where this butcher tells young kids to stay miserable and think of suffering as a virtue. A disgusting degenerate motherfucker.

Spain was too based to ban Cioran's disgusting trash. His books should be banned.

Cioran was a con man. A demon. He wanted to suffer and he wanted other people to suffer same as him and he took pleasure in it. Truly an underground man. A sick man.

If you have any younger relatives and you see them reading Cioran just slap them on their heads and tell them to never read this trash ever again in their life then burn that shit in front of them. And give them a book which of Stoicism.

>>24567415
So any idea that isn't new is bad?
And fuck the Stoics. This isn't even a real philosophy. Their metaphysics isn't doing well. Their ethics is basically just "act according to nature. Because nature is somehow full of reason because of the logos".
Being a stoic is the same as just believing in some god. Life is bad because there is no reason so I just imagine there is some. If I just according to the ethics that I find like Pokemon in the nature hidden behind the Logos I will become the best. I will improve. Improve to where? There isn't some holy state you can work hard to achieve. Eating Tacos with a LED Butt Plug inside your ass has the same worth as working out 2h a day. So the only thing you can do is to achieve the highest net happiness during your lifetime. Sound more like some epicurean cioran type shit. Working out makes me kinda happy. So I work out. WOW. Didn't need some fake nature ethics to do this.

>>24567434
Holy shit the stoic avenger arrived.

>Slap younger brother and give him Stoic
Why tf does everybody wants to burn the books I own on 4chan now.
If your younger brother actually reads Cioran help him to understand it. Sure, reading the stoics can offer lots of pretty neat wisdom. But its not a coherent philosophy. You might as well make him a Christian. That will probably make him happier in the long run.
But if you help him actually understand Cioran the idea of using suicide as a positive is far better understood as by the stoa. A single page of Cioran has helped me to calm down way more than Aurelius' whole Meditations.

>>24567455
>>If your younger brother actually reads Cioran help him to understand it.
I'll beat the shit out of him if I caught him reading Cioran. I'll also take away his phone.

>A single page of Cioran has helped me to calm down way more than Aurelius' whole Meditations.
Spend few years and then you'll find yourself trapped into the weird web of those contradictions. I am warning you to move away from this trash. Be kind enough to Schopenhauer's Wisdom of Life for your own sake.

>>24566692
>>24566796
>>24566904
>>24567338
All pro-White thinkers who had a soft spot for the Jews did not live up to see the Genocide on Gaza nor Notre Dame in flames.

Nietzsche's sublation of antisemitism
>that shit cringe and trivial. they are winning. we should be taking notes
Cioran's
>these guys just can't sit still. feel nowhere at home. literally me!

>>24567487
Thank you for this post

>>24567479
Then thank god my big brother doesn't know anything about literature.
I started literature with them stoics. But somehow ended up finding other philosophies more believable.
The only "downsides" I have experienced from reading Cioran are: that I absolutely hate to go to work and started smoking/drinking. But I am not a full smoker/drinker and refrain from building a habit of doing it. Its all still conscious. I mean even Cioran stopped smoking. While liking the stoics I thought that I would become "magically happy" when I was very dedicated to working and working hard.

But because I like Cioran I think I stepped my foot in Ataraxia for a times. He helped me more to be calm, as said. I will read Schopenhauer's Wisdom of Life if you seem to like it that hard. Is his World as Will and Representation worth it? I own that and some essays from him. But I didn't dare to read it because it seems so much. I am not a fan of thicc books.

>>24567509
>Then thank god my big brother doesn't know anything about literature.
Kek

>The only "downsides" I have experienced from reading Cioran are: that I absolutely hate to go to work and started smoking/drinking.
See I was right about beatings. YOU HAVE TO REALIZE THAT CIORAN TOO ACCOMPLISHED WHAT HE DESIRED. See this is the fucking shit that I am talking about that young people become miserable after reading him but he was living an active lit lifestyle. Cioran was all over in the literary scene in Romania and in France. He had an active and social life. And he got regularly published.

>While liking the stoics I thought that I would become "magically happy" when I was very dedicated to working and working hard.
That's foolish and a modern attitude. The goal is the achieve a state of non-suffering/reducing the suffering to the minimum. Pleasure is not the goal. If wage slavery is causing suffering then work as much as you like to survive. I would suggest you to make fuck tons of money though so you can retire early.

>But because I like Cioran I think I stepped my foot in Ataraxia for a times.
BEWARE OF THIS FUCKING ADDICTION. Those problems doesn't even exist outside of pessimistic literature. Life is vastly more complicated than any book. Here's what he is doing Cioran first creates misery through words and then "solves" them by saying nothing matters and you think that is profound. It is just masturbation. You'll try to seek harder and harder takes. And then you'll find yourself in total misery. Writing was catharsis FOR CIORAN not the fucking reader.

> Schopenhauer's Wisdom of Life
Please do.
>World as Will and Representation worth it?
I don't know I am not a fan of his Metaphysics. I am personally polytheistic like Cioran said that "Man's soul is polytheistic" But I think he was probably the greatest genius of recent times. Try reading his essay and then decide.

>>24566009 (OP)
I'm not a pessimist, but I think there's better pessimistic writers that at least try to be systematic (Michelstaedter, Mainlander, Zapffe). Cioran's aphorisms just feel like a lot of moping. Still, at least all of them at their very worst will always be better than Benatar

>>24567246
You shouldn't apologize only for that.

>>24567541
>Kek
Sorry

>Cioran accomplished what he desired
But what if one does not know what he wants? I am not really a social guy and that was always this way. Cioran didn't cause that. I already studying CS and a company pays me enough. So I don't have any goal or something. As much as I would like having some goal I could work to, because I know that having a goal makes one far more happier and feeling accomplished, I just can't find it. Stoicism would offer this but their virtues and ethics just don't really seem logical to me. As much as I could despise him (I don't) I couldn't argue against him. Just because some truth seems sad it just doesn't make it untrue. So I can't follow some virtue because I don't believe in said virtue.

>Pleasure is not the goal
As I said somewhere in this thread, I think that having a net happiness during the lifetime is pretty optimal. Thus pleasure is good if it doesn't cause my dopamine to get fucked and results in me being unhappy for like 2 days. Being reasonably pleased is nice and Cioran does that in a pretty solid way for me. But I know that working won't be a pleasure any time soon because I can't believe in the stoic virtues (as said above)

>Cioran creating problem selling solution
I wouldn't say that Cioran is causing any problem with making life seem pointless. I have read Ligotti, Mainländer, Selim Güre, etc before. They made it pretty clear that life has no goal etc. And Ciorans "solution" is the one that convinced me the most. Somehow believing in some rational order (logos) and soft determinism just doesn't seem logical to me.

>Please do
Will do

>>24567594
> I already studying CS
Doesn't /g/ have that whole FOSS thing? What about contributing to that? You can try writing, poetry or filmmaking.

I don't know anon if you like Cioran and he makes you feel okay then keep reading him but keep a check on yourself. Even Cioran said that you try to take care of yourself as best as you can. And don't alienate yourself. Have some patience. Try to seek some connections no matter how.

Also you're young so you need to read poetry much more than the aphorism. I would highly suggest George Trakl, Rilke and Hölderlin. Consider yourself lucky because you can read them in German. Try regular walks in nature. Take a walk in nature with their poems in your head.
>Somehow believing in some rational order (logos) and soft determinism just doesn't seem logical to me.
Same

>>24567594
>Ciorans "solution" is the one that convinced me the most.
What's that?

>>24567650
>FOSS stuff
I don't know. Programming and stuff isn't my passion. Just something that brings me money. Literature is a better hobby.

>Poetry and nature
I own a fat book filled with poems of Rilke and Hölderlins Hyperion. Will try reading them when I have access to my bookshelf again. Didn't know George Trakl but he seems nice and his books are cheap. Will buy that. Tried reading some books from Ezra Pounds and Gottfried Benn in the past, but I didn't really "feel" it. But I will give it another try with different guys.
I mostly read in the nature with a view to one of the most beautiful castles in Germany in some nature park. I smoke my pipe or some cigar there like one pretentious mf. Really enjoyable. Thanks for all the recommendation btw.

>Same
Then how come you appraised them Stoics if you don't agree with their metaphysics?


>>24567655
Nothing really special and not really any solution. That why solution is in quotation marks.
Like every almost every pessimist Cioran has some connection to eastern thoughts (Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism). They somehow all like to cope with them. Anyway, just meaning stuff like becoming indifferent to death, seeing death as a solution thus creating freedom, writing your thoughts down in any form and living a pretty secluded quiet life. Its all just a way to cope. But the way Cioran expresses himself just resonated the absolute most with me. Thus he is my "coping-tool".

>>24567702
>Literature is a better hobby.
If you're in Hamburg then contact Hamburg /lit/ bookclub. You can find their email in the archive. They meet regularly.
>Didn't know George Trakl but he seems nice and his books are cheap. Will buy that.
He is the best out of three imo.

>I mostly read in the nature with a view to one of the most beautiful castles in Germany in some nature park. I smoke my pipe or some cigar there like one pretentious mf. Really enjoyable.
Kek, that's actually nice.

>Then how come you appraised them Stoics if you don't agree with their metaphysics?
I take what I like.

bumping to annoy /lit/.