Hey y'all, I'm going through different English translations of Faust at the moment, comparing them to the original German. I'm German myself and my field is somewhat related, so I thought this might help out non-German speakers who want the I guess ''least-worst'' version of Faust in English. Just gone through the start of the translations that seem to get recommended, not a definitive judgement yet but these are my current rankings:

Avoid tier:
Bayard, Arndt, Luke, Williams, Fairley, Atkins, Kline

Better tier:
Wayne (there are quite a few creative liberties taken but it's not super outrageous so it's not avoid tier and I like the way it sounds)
Raphael (still not a very tight read (as in being accurate) but I do like the way it reads in general)
Kaufmann (more accurate, some creative liberties so it's not super tight, but all in all it's pretty good)
Jarrell (actually really solid and clear but some subtleties bother me more than in kaufmann)
Priest (same situation as with Jarrell, in both the clarity surpasses Kaufmann but some subtleties and missed notes are bothersome)


If you want me to go through any other translation while I'm still at it let me know! Cheers.

>>24579705 (OP)
I've continued to read. Wayne is very poetic and probably the most enjoyable by itself but he really does makes the book his own, a lot of things are just brought from the aether, so if the goal is a tight read he's definitely not the choice. Kaufmann on the other hand just seems middle of the road, he's accurate enough but Jarrell (as of now) is a bit more accurate while being slightly more poetic. Same feeling with Raphael and Priest, about the same degree of accurateness, while Priest is more poetic. I'm currently favoring Wayne (if you're fine with said creative liberties) Jarrell and Priest.

>>24579705 (OP)
What do you think of Carlyle's Faust's Curse? It's only a small part, I don't think he ever translated the full thing, but I'd be interested in how accurate it is.

>>24579705 (OP)
whats the funniest/most over-the-top

>>24579886
Some of the avoid ones made me cringe, I'm kind of surprised actually that some of em are rated so highly. I dropped Luke pretty early for example; while there's the possibility that he might have just had a slump at the beginning unless someone makes a good case for him I don't think I'll try and find out haha.

>>24579884
Have not checked it out, is it on anna's?

>>24579931
It's pretty short, I'll go ahead and post it.

If thro' th' abyss of terror stealing
Those touching sounds my purpose stay'd
Some ling'ring trace of childish feeling
With voice of merrier times betray'd;
I curse the more whate'er environs
The cheated soul with juggling shows,
Those hearts' allurements, fancy's syrens
That bind us to this den of woes
Accursed first the tinsel dreaming
Of innate worth our spirits weave!
Each hollow form so lovely seeming
That shines our senses to deceive!
A curse on all one seed that scatters
Of hopes our name from Death to save!
On all as ours on Earth that flatters
As child or wife, as plough or slave!
A curse on mammon when with treasures
He tempts to high and hardy deeds,
When spreading soft the couch of pleasures
The drousy soul he captive leads!
A curse on juice of grapes deceiving,
On Love's wild thrill, of raptures first!
A curse on hoping, on believing!
And patience more than all be curs'd!

>>24579962
Ein süß bekannter Ton mich zog,
Den Rest von kindlichem Gefühle
Mit Anklang froher Zeit betrog,
So fluch ich allem, was die Seele
Mit Lock- und Gaukelwerk umspannt,
Und sie in diese Trauerhöhle
Mit Blend- und Schmeichelkräften bannt!
Verflucht voraus die hohe Meinung,
Womit der Geist sich selbst umfängt!
Verflucht das Blenden der Erscheinung,
Die sich an unsre Sinne drängt!
Verflucht, was uns in Träumen heuchelt,
Des Ruhms, der Namensdauer Trug!
Verflucht, was als Besitz uns schmeichelt,
Als Weib und Kind, als Knecht und Pflug!
Verflucht sei Mammon, wenn mit Schätzen
Er uns zu kühnen Taten regt,
Wenn er zu müßigem Ergetzen
Die Polster uns zurechte legt!
Fluch sei dem Balsamsaft der Trauben!
Fluch jener höchsten Liebeshuld!
Fluch sei der Hoffnung! Fluch dem Glauben,
Und Fluch vor allen der Geduld!

>>24580022
Jarrell:
Although a sweet familiar strain
Could snatch me from that awful frenzy,
Deluding what is left of childhood
With the echo of a happy time,
I curse, now, all that holds the soul
In blandishments and treachery —
That here in this sad cavern of the flesh
Imprisons it in lies and flattery.
Accursed be that lofty opinion
With which the spirit surrounds itself!
Accursed be the dazzle of appearance
As it gushes in upon our senses!
Accursed, what lies to us in dreams,
The delusion of an everlasting name!
Accursed, what flatters us that it is ours,
Wife and child, servant and plow!
Accursed be Mammon, when with his treasures
He spurs us on to reckless deeds
Or fluffs the pillows for our idle pleasures!
Accursed be the nectar of the grape!
Accursed, the supreme gift of love!
A curse on hope! a curse on faith!
And most of all a curse on patience!

>>24580024
Raphael:
When from that dreadful conflict drawn away
By sounds of sweet familiar harmony,
Fragments of childlike feeling, lingering in me,
Betrayed me with echoes of a happier day.
Now I curse all that seeks to cheat
The soul with luring phantasy,
Binding it with flattery and deceit
Into this pit of misery!
Cursed before all that lofty thought
In which the spirit itself doth shroud!
Cursed be the dazzling forms which sought
Upon our senses to press and crowd!
Cursed be all dissembling dreams
Of fame and everlasting life!
Cursed be the flattery of what we own,
As vassal, plough, as child and wife!
Cursed be Mammon when with treasure
He spurs us on to daring deeds,
While merely for our idle pleasure
Spreading the cushions for our needs!
Cursed be the soothing juice of the grape!
Cursed be love’s ecstatic call!
Cursed be hope! Cursed be faith!
And cursed be patience most of all!

>>24580026
Wayne:
A sweet remembered echo drew me,
If lingering trace of childhood's ways
Sent thrilling, cheating memory through me,
My curse on all that guides the soul,
With wiles and witchery surrounded,
And sets her in this dismal hole
With flashing flattery confounded.
My curse upon the high intent
With which the mind engirds itself;
Cursed be illusion's wilful elf
By whom our senses all are blent.
Accursed be cheating honour's lure,
The fame that time will disallow,
The sense of holding things secure,
As wife and child, or man and plough.
My curse on pride, that will invite
Emboldened acts for Mammon's treasure,
On Mammon's hand that sets aright
The softest couch for idle pleasure.
Curse on the fragrance of the grape,
Curse be on love's sweet festival,
And cursed be hope, and faith, her ape,
And cursed be patience most of all.

>>24580031
Priest:
Though, from the frightful frenzy reeling,
A sweet, familiar tone drew me away,
Though what remained of childlike feeling
Was duped by echoes of a happier day,
I now curse all that, round the soul, enfolds it
With dazzling lures and jugglery,
And, banned within this cave of sorrows, holds it
With blinding spells and flattery.
Cursed, before all, the high adherence
To some opinion that ensnares the mind!
Cursed be the blinding of appearance
That holds our senses thus confined!
Cursed be dissembling dream-obsessions,
The fraud of fame, a name's enduring life!
Cursed all that flatters as possessions,
As slave and plough, as child and wife!
Cursed too be Mammon, when with treasures
He stirs us on to deeds of might,
When he, for lazy, idle pleasures,
Lays down for us the cushions right!
Cursed be the grape's sweet juice deceiving!
Cursed Love's supreme, delicious thrall!
A curse on Hoping! on Believing!
And cursed be Patience most of all!

>>24580038
Kaufmann:
As in that terrifying reeling
I heard the sweet familiar chimes
That duped the traces of my childhood feeling
With echoes of more joyous times,
I now curse all that would enamor
The human soul with lures and lies,
Enticing it with flattering glamour
To live on in this cave of sighs.
Cursed above all our high esteem,
The spirit's smug self-confidence,
Cursed be illusion, fraud, and dream
That flatter our guileless sense!
Cursed be the pleasing make-believe
Of fame and long posthumous life!
Cursed be possessions that deceive,
As slave and plough, and child and wife!
Cursed, too, be Mammon when with treasures
He spurs us on to daring feats,
Or lures us into slothful pleasures
With sumptuous cushions and smooth sheets!
A curse on wine that mocks our thirst!
A curse on love's last consummations!
A curse on hope! Faith, too, be cursed!
And cursed above all else be patience!

>>24580022
*Wenn aus dem schrecklichen Gewühle

But yeah the translation is decent but I think I do have some problems with it, we can go line by line tomorrow if you're interested because I'm starting to struggle to keep my eyes open.

I ended up continuing to read after a nap. Adding onto my previous posts, I believe I've underrated Kaufmann quite a lot. I think his translation is still a little less accurate than Jarrell and Raphael (who I believe I was mixing up in my original post) but Kaufmann reads remarkably well and at points feels closer to the original than the others. Might just be due to sleep deprivation but Wayne's style though still gorgeous has gotten a little stale to me; and Priest I think outside of some unfortunate passages is probably the most accurate the more I think about it, while not as readable as Kaufmann. So the perfect translation would probably be as punchy as Wayne can be, with the ease of reading and almost casual feel of Kaufmann, and atleast the accuracy of Priest. Not to say that Priest is autistically accurate, he's not trying to do a Nabokov. My final recommendation (if nothing changes until I finish) to folks would then probably be Kaufmann for most people and Priest for people that want to get a bit of a closer read, and Wayne I guess for the ones that like that almost sappy poetic style. All three are solid, translating Faust is a nightmare but I honestly think there is still a lot of room for improvement, none of the ones I've read have been what you'd call ''definitive'' translations. A revision of the Priest translation could be very fruitful, since I don't think much more can be done with Kaufmann outside of some squabbles.

>>24580548
And with accuracy I mostly mean a range of possible interpretations or rather suppositions based on each part of the line. Without getting into authorial intent or any other retarded topic just the very basic range of meaning in basic and compound form looking at the lines as both a set of suppositions as well as dramatically. So let's say if idk A is the original and it lends itself to a variety but in practice limited set of different paths to be taken, in a way like a leap from A to B one pole to another, while the translation adds another extension on top of that so new possible leaps open up which werent in the cards with the original. In that spectrum Wayne is the biggest leap from which you can leap even further while Priest still feels like the smallest leap just looking at each individual line (though I might be missing the forest for the trees since I'm doing this whole thing quite casually instead of proper analysis)

>>24580558
not supposition lol my brain has stopped working, I'll get back to the thread tomorrow

>>24580563
No problem, thanks for the effortposts. Translation and the nuances between them is always a fascinating subject. And hey, it'll hopefully be useful for anyone looking to get into reading Faust and picking one.

>>24579705 (OP)
>Avoid tier: Williams
Ok but why (I own it)

>>24579705 (OP)
>y'all
Remove this shit from your vocabulary, Hans. It makes you sound like an imbecile.

>>24579705 (OP)
Honestly the quality of the translation only matters in the first half. The second half is a fever dream where style yields to an unbearable avalanche of fantastic imagery and mythological references.

>>24580693
That's the translation I have too I bought it because the cover was so peak and Urfaust's included in it