Thread 24676213

Reading picrel and I feel like I'm missing something. It's a great book but too many of the sentence have the same structure of

>___, ___, ___, ___, ___ ...

Where the ___ parts are just very short poetic phrases or minor details from a scene or memory. Always a string of short phrases, usually ending with the ellipses.

It was a cool effect the first time but it's starting to get repetitive. Kind of got me wondering if these are some type of device, and if there's a reason for this repetition that I've completely missed.

It's been a while but I'm pretty sure he was better about sentence structure in V. so it seems odd that he'd just change it up to something worse for no reason. Am I not seeing something important?

>thinks sentence structure is a function of punctuation
ngmi. Also, try the audio book, might help you get past the superficial. It is an amazing well read audio book, listen to few chapters and compare to how it worked in your head.

>>24676213 (OP)
He was copying Celine and Henry James in equal parts

>>24676213 (OP)
The longer the sentence the more concrete the details IMO. Though if every sentence is the same length then the rhythm can start to get stale.

>>24676490
If you read Slow Learner, V. and GR in that order you plainly see Pynchon develop his own style, starts out as a Hemingway larp and slowly builds and develops on those aspects that are him. We do see influence from other writers, he absolutely took Nabokov's view on character and Under The Volcano likely had an influence on GR, and the pulp novels he grew up with are obvious.
>>24676506
Sentence length has very little to do with rhythm. Rhythm in prose is ultimately building on the same things as rhythm in poetry, just less direct and generally tries to make the rhythm subliminal instead of explicit, subtle cues which the reader does not notice but picks up on if they are not hung up on punctuation. Punctuation does not dictate pauses, it structures thought and signifies the verbal cues which do not carry over from speech to the written word.

I suggest skipping this trash and read his good books which are Vineland, Inherent Vice and Against The Day

>>24676626
You can't understand AtD without GR, M&D, and Vineland.

>>24676490
I can't speak to Celine but the Henry James comparison is way off.

>>24676651
Celine is just as off as James.

>>24676620
>Sentence length has very little to do with rhythm
>Punctuation does not dictate pauses
source: my ass

>>24676676
Question mark tells us how to inflect the final syllable, right? All punctuation marks do this, right down to the most basic punctuation mark, the space.

>>24676620
>>24676651
>>24676657
Absolutely not. He never had a real distinctive style as a stylist. The torrent of clauses is extremely Jamesian. Not just because there are a lot of them but also how they are embedded in the sentences. The ribaldry and constant ellipse use is clearly from Celine. You don't even have to look that deeply, it's all surface level. I am not talking about influence on his novels as a whole. They are better points of comparison I agree. But the style is extremely reminiscent of the aforementioned writers.

>>24676635
>M&D, GR
absolute trash books which I don't regret avoiding

>>24676626
Mason & Dixon mogs all three of the those

>>24677141
I couldn't get into the style and just decided to drop it, not for me I'm afraid

>reading pynch
>another list
>another capitalized Noun
>another intelligent animal

>>24676620
>Nabokov's view on character
?

>>24676223
It does sound a lot better, but I think that has less to do with the way I'm reading, and more to do with the fact that my inner voice is a 14 y/o with asthma. I'm reading it the same way but without that gravitas.

>>24676506
Yeah, but having every fourth sentence be a list - and every other be the same type of list - feels counterproductive. But who am I to criticize Pynchon.

>>24676620
>starts out as a Hemingway larp and slowly builds and develops on those aspects that are him
Really, huh, I haven't read much of Hemingway's work but Pynchon's older stuff felt nothing like it. Maybe in the sense that most of the book happens under the actual writing but the writing style itself seemed pretty distinct to begin with.

>Nabokov's view on character
What do you mean by this? I've only read Lolita and that was years ago.

>>24676676
I feel like his claim is correct, but even disregarding punctuation as a factor, the structure still feels repetitive. Which is why I wanted to know if these hectic trains of little thoughts were supposed to be a literary device instead: like the characters dissociating and reminiscing about pre-war life, or trying to maximize their time thinking since a rocket could drop any second, I don't know.

>>24676626
I've heard that AtD is his best written work, yeah, but I'm going in order of publication.

>>24676490
Just because a nigga uses ellipses doesn't mean he's copying Celine...

>>24676490
>Filtered

>>24677390
Hooking the reader with empathetic characters is a cheap trick, the writer needs to earn that relationship with the reader and work for it.
>>24677562
I am guessing you did not read Slow Learner, first story (The Slow Rain) has Hemingway all over it, Pynchon got most of his style sorted out with his short stories, V. is very much his style but lacks refinement and a good editor, which comes with GR. Some say V. is a big rip off of Nabokov's The Real Life of Sebastian Knight but I don't see it, think it is mostly caused by the narrator of The Real Life of Sebastian Knight being named V., some similarities and Pynchon having attended Nabokov's lectures. The similarities are interesting and enough that it likely was an influence, but Pynchon reworks things a great deal and develops it well beyond what Nabokov wrote.

The answer to your other question is above in the response to the other anon.

>>24677710
>I am guessing you did not read Slow Learner, first story (The Slow Rain) has Hemingway all over it
I did but I disregarded the first one entirely. It wasn't well-written and didn't seem to have a point. Plus the style seemed radically different from the second story onward, and that's where I feel the actual development started. Might be wrong though, it's been a while.


>Some say V. is a big rip off of Nabokov's The Real Life of Sebastian Knight
>Hooking the reader with empathetic characters is a cheap trick, the writer needs to earn that relationship with the reader and work for it.
Interesting. Been meaning to read more Nabakov, Lolita was definitely something else and I'd like to read more like that.

What would you say are the hallmarks of Pychon and Nabakov's respective styles? You seem to have a better understanding of all this than me, and I've enjoyed both authors before, so I'd love to hear your thoughts.