Thread 24722193

I'm actually impressed by his prose, I'll give him that

>>24722208
>meme words
What meme words? It seems devoid of the kind of rightoid brainrot I was expecting.

This reminds of that old NYT interview (when TC was still vaguely mainstream enough to be granted one) when the report said he saw a clearly read and annotated copy of Mrs. Dalloway on his desk. The dude isn't stupid, but he fried his brain with coke during his CNN days.

>>24722193 (OP)
He must have just gotten his first rejection letter for his "literary" fiction attempt.

Link? Or you just made this shit up?

>>24722211
Seriously? MFA is a meme word in this context. He is pandering to people who have no idea what an MFA actually is, people who see it as a meme of the left. But there is nothing about that which is good prose, it is propaganda meant to appeal to a group.

Carlson was great before he joined Fox News; Crossfire was great, that PBS show was great, and even the MSNBC show was solid, but then he joined Fox News and started pandering to morons. I honestly think he should have been the one picked to replace Tim Russert and if he had been picked we would not have had to suffer through endless rotating hosts.

>>24722225
Given his following, he would have zero reason not to self-publish. Still reads like sour grapes though - I'm guessing someone in his orbit was mogged the literary machine.

I don't disagree that it was ruined from the top down, but I do disagree that academia is somehow "the top". Jewish nepotism in positions of power to gatekeep the industry and greed for profits over aesthetics and quality is what destroyed literature.

>>24722237
What defines a "meme" word from a "regular" word in your opinion aside from being an exercise in semantic pedantry?

>first sentence aping the kaczynski manifesto
he should have boiled this down to "they won't let me join their special club."

if anything the literary establishment isn't elitist enough. education in the classics should be mandatory to graduate. if you can't engage with the western canon, don't write american literature.

>>24722265
>aside from being an exercise in semantic pedantry?
You obviously have already made up your mind, why did you bother posting?

>>24722290
For shits and giggles

>>24722300
In some vague academic way, I am jealous but mostly you make me sad. Aim higher.

>>24722307
>Aim higher.
Brb cumming in ur dad's face.

>>24722310
>aims lower

>>24722287
It's extremely elitist, it just is elitist about degenerate pomo subculture.

>No link and mentally ill niggers are already discussing this as if was real
This shithole is pathetic.

>American literature isn't American, it's coastal, hyper-urban, and narcissistic and deeply irrelevant. It has about as much granularity to average person as a Sargent painting would have had to a laborer at the turn of the last century and unlike the painting, it's most likely not even beautiful.
This is a banger of a line if it wasn't from someone as discredited as Carlson, you'd all be praising it.

>>24722287
the US have nothing to do with the western canon

>>24722317
>[Cormac McCarthy is] coastal, hyper-urban, and narcissistic and deeply irrelevant. It has about as much granularity to average person as a Sargent painting would have had to a laborer at the turn of the last century and unlike the painting, it's most likely not even beautiful.
Nice one punchy my motorcycle's seat pussy doesn't menstruate even if it had one. That blood on my dick is from cutting.

>>24722316
So, you don't know how anonymous works? Source doesn't matter because anonymous, all that matters is what was said.
>>24722317
It is retarded, ignores all of American lit from flyover country which is some of the most influential literature in the country despite often being overlooked; Faulkner and Southern Gothic and all that came from it would not exist without Anderson.

>>24722193 (OP)
That Tucker is capable of making a sensible point like this just convinces me that the hyper Russia shilling, up to doubling down on the most ridiculous Russian propaganda like "biolabs filled with bat-delivered Slav killing super viruses," literally reporting verbatim on their edited versions of leaked US intelligence estimates where all the numbers are radically shifted in their favor, claiming American soldiers are "fighting on the front lines," or his claims that he has "evidence" about Ukraine trying to kill NATO heads of state and selling most of their weapons to Hamas and Mexican cartels, etc. convince me that there is absolutely no way this man wasn't honeypotted into diddling a kid/tween and is now a kompromat mouth piece.

He also risked his golden parachute to pump out Russian propaganda, so it can't just be money.

>>24722323
I think in context, it's blindingly obvious that he's referring to modern American literature, since he explicitly cites Faulkner in a preceding paragraph.

>>24722328
Right, that is my point. Only cities what works to the point and ignores everything which does not because that will not work towards agenda. Or are you trying to suggest that Anderson is not modern American lit?

>>24722324
I think it's more likely that he feels immense guilt for what he feels like was his role in fomenting the Iraq War (he's talked about feeling that many times) and has now pivoted to arguing against American military intervention anywhere, at any time, for any reason.

I'm not defending him, because that is a retarded position to hold, but his history of substance abuse, traumatic childhood, and sudden return to Christianity all seem to point to an ideological one-shotting than to kompramat.

>>24722193 (OP)
I usually don't like Tucker, but he's right here. When was the last time a book got big in America while coming from the working class, fucking Hillbilly Elegy? You hardly even see journalists making it big either, though to be fair, this isn't a uniquely American phenomenon, it's global, but his general point still stands.

>>24722346
Cormac McCarthy

>>24722331
He, and Carlson, mean contemporary American literature. He's just commenting on the current state. Reading comprehension! now!

>>24722359
Who is 90 years old... which proves the point.

I would like skeptics of the OP to consider philosophy. Surely this has happened there, no? When was the last time you heard of any non-credentialed person writing a widely read work in philosophy proper? Even academics in adjacent fields have significant difficulty getting any traction due to such an extreme focus on "the literature" for each precise issue and use of the appropriate terminology. Nor will you see much by way of priests and monks, mainstays of philosophy in the past, unless they are practicing academic philosophers or have been pigeon holed into the "Catholic philosophy" space (which is also where Anglophone Orthodox books end up being published).

But think about what this has meant for philosophy. It is increasingly irrelevant, and in becoming wholly irrelevant to popular discussions it has been allowed to grow in bizarre, incestuous, parochial directions. At least Continental thought still has some connection to the arts (although it tends to be the same sort of elitist, parochial art coastal art world that is ruining literature and contemporary art). The political echo chamber effect is also very real here, and you see that strongly in contemporary art when you go to a museum and 90% of pieces have a description about how the art is some sort of commentary in favor of far-left politics (I like contemporary art, but I don't think I have EVER seen one description harkening to anything right wing or any sort of traditional philosophy of spirituality, POMO, broadly speaking, is hegemonic).

Analytic philosophy is even more irrelevant, except where it attaches itself to the sciences and is subsumed in them. Liberalism is hegemonic, of course, but economics and political science have taken over so that liberal assumptions never have to be challenged as they might in philosophy.

The result is that the general public reads none of this shit and supports gutting liberal arts education funding and funding for the arts. Instead, New Age, deflated (often consumerist) Buddhism, self-help, and religious fundamentalism because the remaining popular philosophies. None of these are good philosophies for supporting a civilization. Self-help as philosophy in particular basically only focuses on "how do you get what you currently just so happen to desire," and not "what is truly excellent for a human being" and tends towards shallow consumerism and narcissism.

>>24722517
> But think about what this has meant for philosophy. It is increasingly irrelevant, and in becoming wholly irrelevant to popular discussions it has been allowed to grow in bizarre, incestuous, parochial directions
You’re an idiot, this is how philosophy has always been. Inb4 “muh stoics”

As much as I loathe agreeing with that weasel he is right.

However simultaneously I don't think the American working class has much to say, we live in a world where self publishing is actually very viable, and we don't have very many self-published smash hits. I guess you could blame Amazon forcing authors to self censor to get published there, but unless you are writing Tampa of the Northwest, that shouldn't be much of an issue.

reminder that dfw liked fun wacky postmodern stuff until he went to his mfa program where they indoctrinated him with the idea that self-absorbed sentimentality is where literature should be going. did his mfa program ultimately lead to his death? no way to know, but reading that letter from the 80s that was up for auction a few months ago where he praised tcol49 as a "short and cool book for a short and cool friend" makes me sad that after his mfa ended up becoming a guy who churned out god awful cliche like "this is water".

>>24722333
>arguing against American military intervention anywhere, at any time, for any reason.
That's a correct position though.

>>24722496
Contemporary authors are not much different than Faulkner, Faulkner was not writing for Cletus and Billie-Rae Jean, he was writing about them and we still have that. Main difference between Faulkner and writers like Adam Johnson or Richard Powers is plotfagging. Not saying that Faulkner was a plotfag, just that in his time theme could not be removed from plot; Powers and Johnson are steeped in the Uppermidwest and ultimately everything they write is about the region regardless of where it is set.
>>24722539
Retard.

>>24722554
>Retard.
just droppin trvkes my dude

>>24722193 (OP)
Actually good prose, it makes me wonder if his on-screen persona is him pretending to be stupid or something

>>24722517
>Who is 90 years old
My newfag, he is dead.

>>24722517
>how do you get what you currently just so happen to desire
Which buddhism does not do, btw.
>what is truly excellent for a human being
Which buddhism does do, btw, in a more clear and honest way than aristotle, whose advocates, let's be honest, are more interested in maximizing more "refined" forms of pleasures, like intellectual pleasures, whilst avoiding pain and suffering

>>24722559
>doesn't talk like an academic twat therefor he must be stupid
leftists are so superficial

>>24722556
>tvkes
So, meme ideological truths which have no connection to reality. I can't argue with that.

>>24722311
Anon, in lieu of addressing the cento your initial claim 'relied' on a presumed cadre of persons less enlightened than yourself-- period. But if you yourself know what an MFA is (which would eradicate its meme status, so given) then you chose to conceal that knowledge. How convenient
In other words, you aimed low ab initio

>>24722346
Jack Kerouac

>>24722559
everyone on tv is automatically an actor. that includes politicians

>>24722591
You sure spent a long time seething. What an MFA actually is, is not hidden and anything I have to say about it will not change the mind of Carlsonites.

>>24722346
>When was the last time a book got big in America while coming from the working class, fucking Hillbilly Elegy?
vance went to yale u literally cannot get more elite than that in america and he always used that little story about being "hill billy royalty" or whatever to appeal to elitists.

>>24722601
the point is that elite mfas are now feeders to getting published like how elite mbas are feeders to mckinsey or goldman sachs. anyone can do an mfa or mba, i have an mba, but the gates only open for elite tier.

>>24722307
you're a huge faggot. You list the meme words you've identified or you go fuck yourself. Simple as.

>>24722609
Vast majority of MFAs don't get published, they just become professors and housewives and alcoholics. MFA is not an in, you still have to do the work.

>>24722237
>guy who watches tv news enough to have the names of all these slop shows top of mind wants to judge the intellectual development of others
dude please

>>24722193 (OP)
Maximalist prose doesn't have to be gay. I do however feel that his grandiloquent word choices combined with the long sentences is questionable. It feels soulless and dishonest. The aim was clearly to create some semblance of sprezzatura. But his countless hours of speaking on the record makes this deviation from his usual manner of communication stand out as a masturbatory performance.

>>24722262
Underrated. This is the explanation.

>>24722625
>guy writes like a normal college educated adult
>it's maximalist prose!
you're one of those guys from the genre generals i take it?

>>24722640
It certainly isn't minimalist. But I don't recall putting it down but more so it's an issue of Tucker already being a public figure so him reinventing how he communications feel inauthentic.

"Normal college educated adult". I feel my prose lost a lot of flavor and personality throughout college. The homogenization of expression it fosters is more of a bane than a boon to one's creative flair.

>>24722193 (OP)
Wait

>"majority of the fiction produced by writers without academic training is low-grade and genre-inflected"
>lists Bukowski and Faulkner as examples of high lit

Bukowski never step foot in a college. I dont know what this faggot is trying to say

>>24722617
MFA is definitely an "in", saying otherwise is disingenuous. You suck up to the right people, adopt the right cultural and political attitudes, etc, and then your sentimental, disingenuous, often self-absorbed slop will be far more likely to be seen by a respected agent than some nobody from some random town who happens to have a genuine interest in literature but has no online footprint and who, more importantly, hasn't been tacitly vetted by a group of middle-aged women and their betamale allies.

Which isn't to say MFAs in general should be closed down or whatever, it's a means of developing one's craft etc. But in the modern climate where politics penetrates and corrupts everything, MFAs are basically where middle class people go in the hopes of making passive income by talking about themselves while being precious about women and non-whites, and, to a very limited degree, working class men.

>>24722670
>>24722617
MFA, like a lot of higher degrees, especially in the arts, proliferated because universities saw them as a way to make money. Students saw them as a ticket to success and were willing to pay, so more schools created more MFA programs. The end result is a glut of programs and graduates far beyond the actual demand for new writers. People keep signing up for MFAs anyway because [a] they actually do give you a leg up in a brutal publishing field and [b] let's face it, most aspiring authors aren't good at cost/benefit analysis and live on delusions of artistic success.

It's basically a pay-to-play scheme where you don't even get a guaranteed chance to play, just somewhat higher odds. The whole system is rotten to the core.

t. got a different but equally useless MA

>>24722576
Yes, my point re Buddhism (and Taoism, etc.) is that Westernized, deflated, secularized versions tear out this philosophy and exchange it with the watered down "therapy" of liberalism. Pic related.

>>24722530
No it wasn't. Quite the opposite, virtually all pre-modern philosophy was grounded in praxis, is asceticism and spiritual exercises. See for example Hadot's work, or Finn's, or any history of these schools, or biographies like Porphyry's of Plotinus, or biographies of Pythagoras, Apollonius, the Desert Fathers, etc. This was equally true in the East.

It was also deeply relevant to culture through religious practices and education. You cannot read Dante, or similar works and not be struck by how philosophy deeply informs such cultural landmarks. The same goes for popular art, as with the understanding of icons in the East.

>>24722193 (OP)
My creative writing professor pretty told us the same thing. MFAs really aren't worth it unless you're studying under someone good. The problem is MFA programs are infested with literally whos and hacks, and you're not gonna learn anything. If anything, you'll probably end up a worse writer.

>>24722333
He was all for intervention against ISIS though...

>>24722670

This is largely true. The drawback isn't college itself, it's that 'literary fiction', at least in the U.S., has a sort of gate-keeped sameness about it that bores you to death.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulitzer_Prize_for_Fiction

Look at the photos of the writers in this list. Since about the last 40 years, the writers all have this sort of 'look' about them, an 'I'll see you at the faculty meeting' look. They're the type of people you almost never see at, say, an auto-parts store, a diner, or a college football game. The only writer who doesn't have that look is McCarthy, who sort of looked like a country music singer.

And that's reflected in the books they write. Literary fiction becomes a subset of 'official culture', pre-approved by your betters.

Mulitfactor authentication MUST DIE

>>24722333
If he just claimed the US should stay out that would be plausible, but he has tried to positively justify the invasion of Ukraine and spread Russian released edits of intelligence reports to try to spread the notion that Ukraine will collapse "any day now" the entire war. He also talked up Moscow as a sort of paradise, but any of us who have been to Moscow know this is sheer bullshit. There was his fawning interview with Putin, as well as a tendency to report Kremlin falsified data within a day or even hours of it being released. It's also the one issue he is willing to break with his base and Trump over. We know from his texts that were released in the Dominion lawsuit that he thought claims about the 2020 election being rigged were false and that the people promoting them were taking advantage of the base, but was too worried about alienating his audience not to report the same thing. But then when it comes to Russia he has no problem going against his base and attacking even his allies.

The sort of stuff he does is full on propaganda tier, especially since he got kicked off Fox.

>>24722670
>>24722681
I have an MFA, most everyone in my program went into teaching or became a housewife. The handful of us who have stuck to our writing have seen no special consideration and are not getting our dense popopomo tomes published/ We keep at it and grind away like everyone else. The only reason I am more published than most non-MFAs is because pf endlessly submitting work to journals is all you have to do with the ridiculous amount of writing you produce when going through an MFA, it is not like you have a professor giving you prompts and having their TA grade it like you are in an undergrad creative writing elective.

MFA is pretty much spending 8 hours a day writing and reading, and 5 or 6 hours a day discussing it all in a rigorous academic fashion. In an MFA or not, doing this is going to have a considerable effect on your writing and your publishity (sic).

The main insider advantage I got from my MFA is I know a few people who went into publishing, but the ~two dozen from my undergrad that went into the industry have proven far more valuable.

>>24722559
>Actually good prose
It's not. Though I accept his argument, the pacing is terrible and it's littered with buzzwords.

>>24722211
The first sentence is literally a Ted Kazscynski reference

>>24722701
McCarthy is an example I like, because it shows how vastly different the literary climate (not to mention the economic and cultural climate) was when he was an aspiring author than it is today.

He attended college sure, and published a couple of stories there and I think won some award. But he then bought some cheap home in a semi-rural location (which is now worth 250k+ on Zillow; I checked), shacked up with a woman who figured they could still be happy and stable even if he ended up working a regular job, and dedicated himself pretty much full-time to writing. He sent his manuscript to one of the biggest publishing houses in the US, and Faulkner's old editor happened to see it and figure he was someone worth investing time and energy into because there was talent there. It was a kind of old-time gentlemanly code where a young aspiring literary guy was given an opportunity by the old guard, who were interested in seeing the next generation of writers thrive. Today, that is interest is dead, especially if you are a white male who prefers to fuck women, especially if you are the son of a prominent lawyer as McCarthy was. It took something like two years iirc for his first novel to be worked on and improved before it was published, and even then McCarthy sold very few copies (which proves his 16yo muse's story about her reading his book at the time they met was a lie). But they stuck with him, and American culture benefited long-term. How McCarthy survived while barely working (part-time autoparts warehouse job aside) is beyond my ken, though I assume his family supported him to some extent. Today he would be fucked unless he went into debt, secured some MFA placement somewhere, or got himself published by a smallish regional publisher and worked his way up over years/decades. Before him, Faulkner, seen as a kind of podunk everyman, boasted that he only had to work a few hours a month to pay rent and that jobs were plentiful enough to support his ambition. Again, today the apartment he rented in New Orleans would cost him $1,500+ a month, and that old Oxford plantation house would only be affordable to a health insurance executive. Looking at more contemporary writers, the trend has changed. Look at Nic Pizzolato for example, who started out in fiction. He got himself into an MFA, worked as a copywriter in the city for a while, and then iirc lived in a low-rent area on hermit mode before publishing his short story collection and then debut novel while working as a creative writing professor. Without over-chudifying this whole thing, his chances post-recession, post-Floyd would be far slimmer than they were before ethno-digital metrics were taken into account when an aspiring writer dared show his face.

>>24722701
>U.S.

And the UK. It's everywhere i think. Upper middle class white women dominate lit fic and the stories are all about white women and dating or getting an abortion , or refugees

>>24722359
>mccarthy
>working class
he was a wealthy yankee transplant irishman
nothing "working class" or "southern" about him

>>24722867
He lived in the south from the age of four, which is exactly the same age as your intellect.

>>24722769
I feel like the era of literary writing and the publishing industry seeking new literary writers has died. The world just isnt the same as it was and this era seemed to have died in the early 2000s

>>24722193 (OP)
I like that he starts with a reference to industrial society and it’s future

>>24722193 (OP)
>writing is not a profession, it is an art and a craft
>people arent writing because theyre not getting paid

Lolwut

>>24722975
>craftspeople didn't get paid
not sure that's a historically accurate take but ok

>>24722977
Majority of fine arts and crafts have been patron-sponsored throughout history.
He's arguing against a system that has worked without fail in the arts since time immemorial.
Patron system encourages the artist to pursue their art for its own sake, art for the sake of art, and wealthy patrons are given the opportunity to finance that pursuit if it's in their own interest for the sake of power or aesthetic pleasure.
Rather than arguing against the patron system, he should be encouraging people who *enjoy* fine arts to further patronize the arts they enjoy, rather than spending their wealth on meme coins and ZYNs.

Writing copy for the back of a beer can is a craftwork for the sake of profits, writing a piece of classical literature is an artwork for the sake of art.

God damn. I've never seen a thread before that so obviously demonstrated the lack of reading comprehension in the general /lit/ population.

>>24722987
I agree. And has been happening on a small scale with sites like Patreon, Substack etc. But its not the big money patronage that used to build entire schools, libraries, entire art movements etc.

>>24722193 (OP)
>This is not because this is all "those people" are capable of, but rather because it as all the present system allows them to publish
I think he means "it is"

>>24722193 (OP)
>has been a disaster
Stopped reading there. Current thing midwit slop.

Palahniuk did say if medical schools had the same failure rate for creating doctors as MFA program do for writers there’d be congressional hearings

>>24722601
Was a different anon but whatever

A search in the web about this picture shows no results except for 4chan itself. Neither it does looking anything about Tucker Carlson and MFA programs. This whole thread is 99% made up shit from a baiter, but the subhumans that now inhabit /lit/ don't care about that, they only care about their latest political discussion no matter if is a lie. Truly this fucking board has fallen low.

>>24723264
Gamers won. Deal with it.

Bros, how do we defeat credentialist gatekeeping? How can we create a literary world where the uncredentialed but talented can succeed?

>>24723311
>t. Subhuman

>>24723333
>quads of truth gamers are subhuman

>>24723331
That’s already the literary world that exists, you just gotta write porn for femcels

>>24723331
Write webnovels. See >>>/lit/wng/

>>24722193 (OP)
It's well said yeah although I caught a grammatical error which discounts the whole thing

>>24722683
Is this book worth reading?

>>24723356
Why are women so porn addled. I swear, south of trannies, I've never met any man as pornified as the average woman.

>>24722237
MFA doesn't even exist (like "Antifa")!

>>24722307
But if I aim outside the toilet bowl ill get piss everywhere

>>24722287
>first sentence aping the kaczynski manifesto
>>24722738
>The first sentence is literally a Ted Kazscynski reference

Kaczynski doesn't hold a copyright on
>X has been a disaster for Y
which is a perfectly natural phrase in English. If the Unabomber's manifesto is the first thing to come to mind upon reading this, brother you are the one with brainrot

>>24722663
He is obviously talking about Bukowski "then" and low-grade and genre-inflicted fiction "now"

>>24722193 (OP)
Then put your money where your mouth is, Mr Swanson family married-into-heir, and finance some artists works getting published.

No one wants to fund such people so they disappear and turn into something else. Who cares? Literally no one.

>>24722721
My poetry professor always talked about the writing process as "producing text," which I found gross and mechanical and turned me off a creative writing "career." What keeps you going, beyond sunk cost and muscle memory?

>>24722721
>The main insider advantage I got from my MFA is I know a few people who went into publishing, but the ~two dozen from my undergrad that went into the industry have proven far more valuable.
>"Tucker is wrong"
>"Yeah, the thing Tucker talked about is my greatest benefit from spending tens of thousands for this 'degree'."

Has a fiction book ever been turned down because the author didn’t have a degree? This seems like a rant about a problem that doesn’t exist, or maybe it happened once and got conflated with another issue (publisher didn’t like the author personally, or maybe the book just plain stunk).

>>24725228
>which is a perfectly natural phrase in English
No one said it wasn’t “perfectly natural” you chittering ESL. Just admit allusions are beyond your comprehension.

>>24722625
If you think that that passage is “grandiloquent”(ironic word choice), you’re a genuine retard. I hate with a genuine passion this type of shallow hand-wavey criticism that seems to be so popular nowadays. Fuck you. Bitch.

>>24722992
Half of these retards are probably in MFA programs themselves kek

>>24725847
Insinuating that if must be such a reference if you see it anywhere is implying that, yes. It's not like the original post came with "and here's why it's a reference to the manifesto and not a normal phrase anyone would use". And in fact anon it was probably YOU who's ESL

>>24725914
>It's not like the original post came with "and here's why it's a reference to the manifesto and not a normal phrase anyone would use"
If he did that, it wouldn’t be an allusion anymore since what you’re describing is an explicit reference. You need to go back, saar.

>>24725929
The nigger doth protest too much. The original posts I was replying to, moron, not Carlson's article. How would what I wrote make sense if it were referring to Carlson?

>>24725995
What do you think OP means?

>>24725897
I'll troll however I damn well please on this board niggu. We wuz leading folks astray on this here board since you was born

>>24725228
eat shit nigger. do you think "_, I am your father." could be anything as well?

Amazingly faggy diatribe lacking any self-awareness. The conservative movement is largely to blame for corporate publishing consolidation and elite insularity because during Vietnam poorfags could afford to go to college and were becoming less and less willing to die for the Heritage Foundation. The irony of the "populist realignment" republican thinkpiece slopiverse over the past 5 years is that it's culminated in every last one of them campaigning for a ZOG pedophile who wants to raise the retirement age to 89 and gut social security. Based! I'm sure another tax cut for the Adelsons will make white americans want to have more babies.

>>24725612
Did you read the entire line that you quoted? Or the post?

>>24726085
>I’m a fag and just say things with zero factual basis because I’m, like, a source of my own
Stream your suicide please.

>>24722193 (OP)
Damn tuck don miss