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Thread 24845668

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Anonymous No.24845668 [Report] >>24845711 >>24845801 >>24845830 >>24845929 >>24845961 >>24845962 >>24845975 >>24846241 >>24846260 >>24847914 >>24848187 >>24848800 >>24848810
The breakdown happened a lot sooner than I thought it would, I'll admit.
Anonymous No.24845711 [Report] >>24847461
>>24845668 (OP)
how will fuck yo momma ever recover?
Anonymous No.24845722 [Report]
that's an ugly R
Anonymous No.24845801 [Report] >>24845905 >>24846624
>>24845668 (OP)
Liberalism is failing but I feel it hasn't truly broken yet.

That will take the shattering of even the facade, the farce. What I mean is: that will take formal suspension of elections.
Anonymous No.24845830 [Report] >>24846301 >>24846653
>>24845668 (OP)
It's not liberalism that failed. It's the whole European race that failed. We have abolished everything wich once made us great. Now don't misunderstand my point when I say that effemination itself is what brought our downfall, but it is paramount of our downfall. All these utterly masculine institutions, university, government, work offices, even the military, things supposed to be serious, we have allowed to be permeated by the female. I have had this realization after trying to figure out what I want to study in college: they have women just about everywhere, and, I can't help it, they just take all the seriousness away from those institutions. Places where men are supposed to work together, beat at each other, and become true men, they have placed all these females, the result is the men become effeminate rather than masculine during their formative life years.
This is however not the core of the problem; it lies within the underlying premise, that the institutions no longer serve the goal of making great men, but of pleasing the petty needs of females and minorities. The very presence of these institutions has become symbolical. They are nothing but a standing symbol of emancipation, they are there for the formerly oppressed to feel good about themselves, without having contributed much. They are standing works of art, nothing else, and pretty bad ones at that. They serve no practical goal at all, or only in a vanishing sense, they kind of still emit the remnant radiation from a past era of greatness.
Anonymous No.24845905 [Report] >>24845912 >>24846177 >>24846301
>>24845801
Yep. You get it. Since liberalism is not actually real, the total collapse of it won't happen until the kayfabe actually ends and they stop pretending it's a real thing. This can only happen with things like no more elections or outright criticism of the U.S. constitution for example. Merely contradicting liberalism does not mean collapse because liberalism is always contradicted anyways. What sustains it is all the NGOs, politicians, journalists, celebrities, media, etc telling you that it works and that the people have the power.
Anonymous No.24845912 [Report]
>>24845905
I think something analogous to Protestantism would be a better approach that outright opposing liberalism. What the Prots did, instead of outright advocating for atheism and Odinism, was taking a more pragmatic, dogmatic and researched approach on Christianity. Footing themselves on the base of a 1500 year old text, wich their adversaries the Catholic Church agreed with them was the absolute truth, they beat their dominance; agreeing in the core ideas to disagree with everything else, smash it into pieces, they liberated themselves from the chains of the Pope.
We can do the same. We, the European peoples, US, I say, the descendants of the brave forefathers who fought for another cause than petty elites ruling like landlords, with no other excuse than being greedy assholes, destroying everything in their path, just until society itself, for the sake of profit, WE, I say, have to do nothing more than to dig back the sacred texts of liberalism, 18th Century enlightenment and the Constitution and advocate for a more dogmatic, pragmatic, truthful approach, and to call everyone profane who does not live by those rules, and use that momentum to disagree with the elite, and make them in turn look like the bad guys, the anti-liberals, I say, is a feasible and doable approach.
Anonymous No.24845929 [Report] >>24845933
>>24845668 (OP)
every single one of these books i've read has gotten basic facts about liberalism and the ancients wrong. some libtard said "aristotle famously spoke out against tyranny", for one
Anonymous No.24845933 [Report] >>24848760
>>24845929
The modern liberal elites have it all wrong. Why can't I, for instance, negotiate, bargain over a hospital bill, my granted right? It really grinds my gears.
Anonymous No.24845939 [Report] >>24845958 >>24846081 >>24846122 >>24846161
You guys care too much. As long as the grocery stores are stocked, the lights are on, and the NFL keeps on playing we’ll be alright
Anonymous No.24845958 [Report]
>>24845939
All those things mean nothing to me if I can't be free. Damn, but I can't help it, I feel so hard like the Founding Fathers, our Lords are demanding too much taxes and tenths for too little representation. Is asking for a declaration of independance from capitalism asking too much? Dare I say, that within liberalism this is a completely legal move?
Anonymous No.24845959 [Report]
liberalism failed in that it created generations of spoiled retards
Anonymous No.24845961 [Report]
>>24845668 (OP)
Boston Smartphone Party now.
Anonymous No.24845962 [Report]
>>24845668 (OP)
Is it really liberalism that failed us or the dismantling of New Deal policies and finance capitalism? The former gives a good pretext for democratic backsliding as we’re witnessing now.
Anonymous No.24845975 [Report] >>24846231 >>24846427
>>24845668 (OP)
>Marxism-Leninism decays into nationalism
>Maoism decays into nationalism
>Titoism decays into nationalism
>Free trade capitalism decays into nationalism
>Pan-Islamism decays into nationalism
>Ba'athism decays into nationalism
>Wahabism decays into natioanlism
Hehe, idk. Perhaps the nationalists may be on to something?
Anonymous No.24846081 [Report]
>>24845939
I grow my own food using lights powered by homemade windmills and play in my yard.
Anonymous No.24846122 [Report] >>24846210 >>24846215 >>24846628 >>24847698
>>24845939
I disdain the average normalfag and delight in the idea of these things being taken from them. So I'm going to actively vote, and write, and act, and pray, in a way that results in these things being taken from them.

These pornography-watchers, these pro-choicers, these church-twice-a-year-ers, what should they have from me, except contempt and despisal? And why should I do anything else, but try to engineer the suffering they have deserved their entire lives, for their unimaginative, bourgeoisie wickedness?
Anonymous No.24846161 [Report]
>>24845939
Would agree but AI and/or economic collapse will definitely change things. If the ruling class distribute enough gibs to offset AI-induced mass unemployment we'll probably just slowly morph into a better-than-average authoritarian country
Anonymous No.24846177 [Report] >>24846199
>>24845905
Liberalism isnt people having the power. Its all about trade. Liberalism just means free trade and free enterprise. The reason its failing is because the barriers to entry are too high, and the consolidation of industries too widespread, for most normals to enter the economy at a high level. It was definitely real, and is fading, but thats because of oligopoly. Idk why everyone seems to think Liberalism has anything to do with politics. The politics are a function of the economics; liberalism is an economic structure
Anonymous No.24846199 [Report] >>24846206
>>24846177
>Idk why everyone seems to think Liberalism has anything to do with politics
Because at least for the past 60 years it clearly does. Chile was (economically) liberal and it was a hellhole dictatorship that tortured dissidents to death. Mainland china has been fairly economically liberal since the 90s and you still don't want to publicly talk about politics there
Anonymous No.24846206 [Report]
>>24846199
Lmao china isnt economically liberal. Its a centralized authoritarian state where the central bureaucracy has to sign off on every transaction made, every enterprise formed, whether domestic or from foreign investment. The Party has to oversee and approve anything. That's not liberalism at all. Its just an authoritarian model allowing more business to take place, at their discretion, and with their full involvement.
>Chile was (economically) liberal and it was a hellhole dictatorship that tortured dissidents to death.
Right because it wasnt economically liberal at all
Anonymous No.24846210 [Report] >>24846220 >>24846283
>>24846122
>church-twice-a-year-ers
Why do you care unless you’re a Christian? And if you’re a Christian, there’s an explicit warning against “engineering suffering” against others, in fact that’s more in line with what the devil does. Praying for your enemies to suffer is literally a Muslim thing, you should join those moon-splitters instead of larping.
Anonymous No.24846215 [Report]
>>24846122
Perhaps this board is filled with trannies. The other anon was right. Its over.
Anonymous No.24846220 [Report] >>24846229
>>24846210
I'd rather be called a LARPer than be an apologist for the disgusting spiritual state of the United States.
Anonymous No.24846229 [Report] >>24846295
>>24846220
Christ lived under a pretty disgusting spiritual state (Rome) and I don’t remember Him saying to wish suffering upon them or the Pharisees. But of course you think you’re the exception, same mentality as the muzzies. Bet you’ll start foaming at the mouth praying for a jihad
Anonymous No.24846231 [Report] >>24846261 >>24846277 >>24846298 >>24846427 >>24847385
>>24845975

The nationalist caused WW1 and WW1 caused WW2. That is 100 million people dead because of nationalism. That is why liberalism emerged: the diagnosis was that people are sheep and become extremely dangerous as a mob, but they are smart individually, so the solution was to separate them and promote individualism to avoid them forming dangerous mobs around things like nationalism, that caused WW1 killing 20 million, religion that caused the 30 year war killing 8 million or 1/3 of the population of central Europe, fascism and communism that caused WW2 and killed more than 120 million.

Now we have found out that most people are stupid even as individuals and get depressed outside the mob. Social media has given them the way to form into dangerous mobs once more, so here we go again, but with nuclear weapons and other god like tech.
Anonymous No.24846241 [Report] >>24846245 >>24846254 >>24847606
>>24845668 (OP)
Looking forward to everyone eventually coming to their senses and returning to monarchy.
Anonymous No.24846245 [Report] >>24846247
>>24846241
No.
Anonymous No.24846247 [Report] >>24846271
>>24846245
Drinking beer and working the fields would probably be a net positive for a lot of people here
Anonymous No.24846248 [Report] >>24846257
This thread revealed the limits of a lot of people's awareness and intelligence
Anonymous No.24846254 [Report]
>>24846241
It never left..
Anonymous No.24846257 [Report]
>>24846248
t. midwit
Anonymous No.24846260 [Report]
>>24845668 (OP)
Liberalism will never fail. The inherent cyclic nature of liberal economics prevents that. Presidential systems of democracy may slide into authoritarianism but the Parliamentary system of Government will never be toppled.
Anonymous No.24846261 [Report] >>24846280 >>24846948 >>24846968
>>24846231
Scream. Gnash your teeth. Cry out.
Nationalism is the only stable equilibrium, the only certainty.

You and your ideology, whatever it may be, may struggle a little while. But at some point soon you'll be nationalists again.
Anonymous No.24846271 [Report]
>>24846247
Kek. Anon you and I would also join the fields. But Im not going to lie. It does sound appealing
Anonymous No.24846277 [Report] >>24846284 >>24846285 >>24846529
>>24846231
This is the problem liberalism finds itself. It did indeed create a society of individuals, and it placated them so successfully that any chance of war or revolution is quite low. But then you throw the internet and AI in the mix and suddenly you have to democratize every opinion that these individuals have and represent them according to your system, and it turns out these individuals are extremely fucking dumb. How exactly do liberals expect mass democracy to work when everyone is now a peasant-brained retard who can’t even distinguish reality? I mean I know this is the outcome they wanted from the start but did they not have the foresight to see how it’d eventually nuke their system?
Anonymous No.24846280 [Report] >>24847711
>>24846261
>Nationalism is the only stable equilibrium, the only certainty.
Nationalism inherently precludes equilibrium ever being consistently reached, and considering nations didnt exist as coherent concepts until somewhere around the industrial revolution, idk what the fuck youre even talking about.
Anonymous No.24846283 [Report]
>>24846210
>Praying for your enemies to suffer is literally a Muslim thing
Nope. Avoid making claims about things you know nothing about
Quran 41:34
>Good and evil are never equal. Repel evil with good, and your enemy will become like an intimate friend
Quran 45:14
>“Tell those who believe, to forgive those who do not look forward to the Days of Allah: It is for Him to recompense (for good or ill) each People according to what they have earned.”
Sahih Muslim 1792
>Abdullah ibn Mas’ud reported: I remember seeing the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, tell the story of a prophet who was beaten by his people, and he wiped the blood from his face, saying, “My Lord, forgive my people for they do not know.”
Anonymous No.24846284 [Report]
>>24846277
Its all according to plan.
Anonymous No.24846285 [Report] >>24846311
>>24846277
That's got absolutely nothing to do with any of this. It has everything to do with economics, with systems and how they work and consolidate. With inertia. The issue with AI and democratization of end user experiences isnt that the people using them are dumb, but that they dont own these systems and cant enter the space for the most part without pre existing capital (a metric fuck ton of it) or a sugar daddy.
Anonymous No.24846295 [Report] >>24846296
>>24846229
Jesus Christ ROSE FROM THE DEAD as the ultimate refutation of every religious or social individual who put Him down.

And as a matter of fact He DID prophesy the terrible destruction that the Romans would inflict on the Jews under the Emperor Hadrian. Predicted it, did nothing to stop it, when of course as God He could have.

Sometimes people get FUCKED for their sins, in the order of things. Abraham pleaded with God to spare Sodom if even ten righteous souls could be found in it. But in the end, Sodom was destroyed anyway. The Egyptians got fucked for their wickedness in keeping the Israelites.

The Aztecs got FUCKED too, for their terrible sins. God sent the Spanish upon them to annihilate them.

Honestly related to the thread, the end of Liberalism will come when the Americans get FUCKED, because the Americans are the totem of Liberalism. Deneen was basically prophesying his own demise, because if America gets fucked, HE gets fucked. I've met Deneen. He's a nice fellow but he's fundamentally an academic. He'll have no idea what to do when things go tits-up here in North America.

Because of course they will, because God is going to FUCK America just like He's fucked a LOT of sinful peoples over the years, in time. Hell, America loves the Jews, so it'll be God fucking the Jews YET AGAIN. Like He always does when they get too sinful and too evil.
Anonymous No.24846296 [Report]
>>24846295
Jesus never rose from the dead. That's magical thinking. Insofar as he really did exist and the Gospels can be relied upon, its pretty clear that the other anon is right.

Since Jesus also wasnt God, which again, is magical thinking, he in fact could not have stopped the destruction of Judea.

As for everything about sins and people being fucked, youre just describing basic systemic inertia in a reality model where competitive entities are always in flux, and systems reach their limits. Youre right that God is doing that; but you need to calm down.
Anonymous No.24846298 [Report]
>>24846231
if you look closely, you'll actually find that the british were the ones that caused world war 2
Anonymous No.24846301 [Report] >>24846318 >>24846321 >>24846648
>>24845830
>>24845905

I'm genuinely concerned about this boards intelligence and age. Are you guys still developing? Who writes such statements unironically and believes himself to be smart
Anonymous No.24846311 [Report] >>24846319
>>24846285
It has everything to do with it. The whole point of liberalism is to deceive the masses that they’re being represented in the system as individuals and after the election cycle is over they can freely continue being consumer cattle. With the new way of doing things economically, with all these foreigners they have to accept in their country, with the total shift in how our propaganda and information is transmitted, people no longer fall for the illusion as much.
Anonymous No.24846318 [Report] >>24846427
>>24846301
Can you explain what I said that was wrong? Do you think liberal democracy is a real thing that produces the equality and representation it claims to uphold? Do you really think the America of 2025 is what the Founding Fathers envisioned? Do you genuinely believe international law is a real thing with inherent truth to it?
Anonymous No.24846319 [Report] >>24846331 >>24846662 >>24848317
>>24846311
That's not what liberalism means. Ive already laid this out. Liberalism doesn't mean liberal democracy, which is a political system that evolved within liberalism, which is an economic system.

I think this conversation is above your ability or current level of understanding, but youre not alone. I haven't seen anyone else in the thread demonstrate that they understand these things either. What a funny place this is
Anonymous No.24846321 [Report] >>24846648
>>24846301
Fools. Or, as you implied and as I hope; youths, who will someday become more intelligent as they grow and develop awareness
Anonymous No.24846331 [Report]
>>24846319
Yeah no shit liberal democracy involves the economic structures of liberalism. That’s why it’s combined with the democracy part to create a specific political system. You are making a completely pointless distinction when there isn’t one and then dismissing others as below your caliber because they naturally don’t care for your semantic obfuscations. You are quite gay and annoying.
Anonymous No.24846334 [Report] >>24846376
This board sucks.
Anonymous No.24846358 [Report]
really? the year 2200?
Anonymous No.24846376 [Report]
>>24846334
Yeah. This is the best board on 4chan though (barring the generals on /sci/) and other social media is worse
Anonymous No.24846427 [Report] >>24846605
>>24845975
National socialism is the most basic bitch ooga booga ideology known to man.
It's easy to be a nazi, and smarter than commies too since that is an ideology only relevant forliteral caveman tribal societies without the ability to civilize
>>24846231
Literally every ideology you described was/is some sort of socialism, be it national, international or cultural.
Liberalism is solely cultural socialism where the state cucks it's socialist framework in yhe field of economics to the smallest extent possible for the immense gain.
This is why literal Trotskyites find zero problems with embracing it.
>>24846318
>NTA
Liberalism works as intented
Graduate high school, no literally, graduate high school and then look back on how utterly insane that shit sounds, especially after your early 20s; >you just wasted most of your teens on a concentration camp designed by insane Prussians to indoctrinate children to the army and factories.
Education for most of civilization was based mostly on tutoring and university style lectures but without as harsh a credit system
This all stems from the basis of liberalism, which is 18th socialism lite
This is also why there are no philosophically literate radical liberals.
The socialist lites on the other hand have a proper philosophy, its just that its platonist delusions ie. philosophical trannyism.
They have to reinvent economics, education and social regulation because platonism naturally concludes in communism, an ideology that assumes collectives are real and individuals are a social construct (since they have no checks by reality due to dialectics being almost entirely in "the world of forms" ie platonist delusions), the holy geist decides everything(instead of people acting ultimately according to their philosophy) labor theory of value is valid and equality is something good in and of itself.
Such ideologies have to refuse the existence of scarcity because it debunks their supremacy of the form.
This is also why trannies and enviromentalists often become leftists, one refuses that scarcity doesn't allow him to become a woman while the other refuses that scarcity should be solved at all, instead promoting that ultimately humanity itself should be curtailed to whatever arbitrary extent it deems fit.
There have been other derivations, such as Plato's own nonsense, however their relevance is of secondary import.
The liberal subconsciously acts on these premises while vocally having to disavow them since he has to cuck to economics but to the least extent possible to achieve total political power because they, like many other leftist s, believe will is an actual force a la you can will shit into existence thus political power is ultimately the greatest power there should be, and the economic power of a society is merely a tool for this instead of both political and economic power being means to combat scaricty.
A contradictory philosophy if you look at it on a surface level desu
Anonymous No.24846529 [Report]
>>24846277
No the issue is that they're extremely stupid and allowed to hold an opinion that gets platformed everywhere. Especially when this opinion doesn't even have to be logically coherent but just held by someone who is black and female or gay or whatever. I'm not even white but I was still happy that trump won because atleast it proved that power can be retaken once more from woke fags
Anonymous No.24846605 [Report] >>24846607
>>24846427
I'm not advocating for national socialism.
If the German's has won WWII, their ideology would also have decayed into race-agnostic nationalism.

20 years after the death of the Austrian painter you'd have seen an alliance between the 1000 year Reich and Nigeria, or something similarly baffling.

Plain old boring self interested nationalism is always going to win.
Anonymous No.24846607 [Report]
>>24846605
*had
Anonymous No.24846624 [Report] >>24848725
>>24845801
Russia and Turkey have elections. You'd have to be a complete loon to call them liberal societies, and they'd probably be quite upset with you if you did.

The end of liberalism only requires the wholesale suspension of constitutional norms, which has already happened in the USA, and the widespread deployment of state violence against the citizenry, which is well on the way in the USA.
Anonymous No.24846628 [Report]
>>24846122
>Church-twice-a-yearers
I'm not sure why you'd care about that, since you are clearly a spiteful, hateful devil-worshipper at heart. You speak and Satan wags his tongue in your mouth.
Anonymous No.24846648 [Report]
>>24846301
Yikes, like, I can't even right now, did you just seriously write that? Hellooooo
>>24846321
Marry, we shall seek the truth of the matter forthwith!
Anonymous No.24846653 [Report] >>24846789 >>24848722
>>24845830
>It's not liberalism that failed. It's the whole European race that failed. We have abolished everything wich once made us great.
Russia is standing strong
Anonymous No.24846662 [Report] >>24846979
>>24846319
Seriously the pseuds in this thread are so funny. Why are you trying to play the genealogist when you're so dead wrong? Liberalism was at first mainly a political idea that came from opponents of Napoléon like Tracy and later Constant. It even got popularized outside of France (first in Spain) as a political revendication in the context of the various restaurations.
In fact, we could even say that it was originally closer to our definition of liberal democracy than it was to its late XIXth century version, as it was much more attached to rights than to popular sovreignty.
Anonymous No.24846789 [Report]
>>24846653
lmao
Anonymous No.24846948 [Report]
>>24846261
nationalists piss n shit themselves when secessionists use nationalism to break apart THEIR state, so methinks it's not very stable at all. nationalism devolves into a cannibalistic recursion loop.
Anonymous No.24846968 [Report] >>24846983 >>24847041
>>24846261
Historically nationalism has been the main factor in destroying the only thing actually close to a stable equilibrium, which was empire.
Anonymous No.24846979 [Report] >>24847259
>>24846662
Yeah, that's when the term itself came into use. Its not when the economic system developed. So, to be clear. Your argument is that I am a pseud, but that liberalism didnt exist before the Napoleonic era, even though America was built explicitly on the idea of liberal economics as its main axiom. The concept of free trade didn't exist before Frenchmen in the 1800s said the word liberal out loud. Cool story bro
Anonymous No.24846983 [Report] >>24846992
>>24846968
>which was empire


Bruh
Anonymous No.24846992 [Report] >>24846998
>>24846983
The most stable equilibrium in European history, barring the current period, was the balance of power between empires between the end of the Napoleonic wars and German unification (a nationalist project that should never have been permitted). The strong subjugate the weak and then settle equilibria with the rest of the strong. It's only natural.
Anonymous No.24846998 [Report] >>24847008
>>24846992
So stable that it lasted a whole...few decades
Anonymous No.24847008 [Report] >>24847016
>>24846998
Yeah, it's a shame that nationalists and Germans ruined it. As I said, that should never have been permitted. Neither should Italian unification. Severe policy failures by Britain and Russia, France and Austria at least made an effort. By the way, the only period in which international politics in Europe was dominated by nationalism was the interwar period.
Anonymous No.24847016 [Report] >>24847096
>>24847008
That's all well and good, but im saying more broadly, that empires aren't really stable equilibriums. Ill accept that they can have periods of it, and id say Pax Romana is a better example than the post Napoleonic war period. But they tend to falter immediately after these periods. So, from where im thinking about it, theyre not very stable. No system really is. That might seem like a stubborn point, but im thinking about these in terms of systems theory, less about political order.
You said the powerful create equilibria with the rest of the powerful. I accept that, too, but that seems like a truism. Of course
Anonymous No.24847041 [Report] >>24847096
>>24846968
And yet, foreigners can't decide which side America falls on
Anonymous No.24847074 [Report]
I was taking a class on a free one-semester scholarship at Liberty University and had to read this book for it. It's just as full of shit as it sounds.
Anonymous No.24847096 [Report] >>24847164
>>24847016
I mean there won't ever be a perfect political equilibrium in the mathematical sense, no. But suppressing the antagonisms of things like nationalism, political radicalism or radical religiosity is a good place to start.
>>24847041
No, that's actually fairly straightforward. The US was clearly an imperial power from the second world war onwards, certainly from the Suez crisis onwards. Its foreign policy became somewhat incoherent under Bush Jr and Obama, and it's been basically retarded since 2016. The MAGA people have no coherent foreign policy whatsoever, they do whatever makes them feel big and important. They're not imperialists or nationalists, they're just retarded.
Anonymous No.24847164 [Report] >>24847281 >>24847477
>>24847096
I agree, but today like. Idk. The US still holds so much global supremacy that its not even a question. The instability we face now has less to do with any real threat to our power and more that ascendant powers have more ability to start problems at the margins than they did before. When I tend to think about what needs to be done, it looks something like, allowing multipolarity to exist, but under US terms. Accept great power politics as the game, but ensure the US remains the referee and the owner of the board.
This is already the reality, we just dont let entities actually operate in their spheres and still try to manage everything ourselves. Running in quicksand
Anonymous No.24847259 [Report] >>24847340
>>24846979
>Yeah, that's when the term itself came into use. Its not when the economic system developed
Debatable. Physiocrats were also "liberals" economically. France's first abolition of inner trade barriers, corporations was under the physiocrat Turgot. Not to mention a "free-trade" treaty with England sometime later.
Still, doesn't matter, you're moving the goalposts here. You can't just go correct someone on what liberalism is "supposed to be" and just ignore historical precedent.
>even though America was built explicitly on the idea of liberal economics as its main axiom
What? Even as a non-american I can find obvious counterexamples to this claim: federalist ideology, inner trade barriers, tariffs etc.
>The concept of free trade didn't exist before Frenchmen in the 1800s said the word liberal out loud. Cool story bro
Oh come on, you play the role of the common sense guy when you tried to criticize an anon for using a contemporary definition instead of one that has no historical basis.
Anonymous No.24847281 [Report] >>24847307 >>24847328 >>24847743
>>24847164
>US remains the referee and the owner of the board
Out of genuine curiosity, assuming you are an American, do you want that for your country? This isnt some gotcha, I am curious.
Anonymous No.24847307 [Report] >>24847312
>>24847281
NTA but yes. Even if it reaps no benefits for ordinary Americans, it protects them from outside oppression. You're either fucking or you're getting fucked.
Anonymous No.24847312 [Report] >>24847329 >>24847477
>>24847307
I see.
I do mean it, this isnt some gotcha. I just want know the distinction between genuine love for one's country and people and when it becomes impractical, but you do have a reason. The world isnt a friendly place.
Anonymous No.24847328 [Report] >>24847348
>>24847281
I just want the world to remain somewhat functional and cant see a way where this happens otherwise. I cant see a way it will other than something like that, because the board is so thoroughly owned.
Anonymous No.24847329 [Report] >>24847348
>>24847312
So, no, I dont agree with the reply that anon gave to you as for the reasons why. Im not so self interested. Though I wont deny self interest, everyone's got it.
Anonymous No.24847340 [Report] >>24847432
>>24847259
Im not moving goalposts. My first post here is that liberalism is an economic system that pre dates political terminological use.
Tariffs don't mean a system isnt liberalized. Distibuted property rights and free enterprise does
Anonymous No.24847348 [Report]
>>24847328
>remain somewhat functional
Im with you there, believe me.
>>24847329
I think at a certain point, one has to within reason be self interested, when it ventures into paranoia and self destructive impulses is something im not too sure of.
Anonymous No.24847385 [Report] >>24847389 >>24847404
>>24846231
>That is 100 million people dead because of nationalism.
That's literally nothing. 62 million people died last year and 63 million are projected to die this year. We have gone from one death every 3 seconds in the middle of ww2 to 2 death per second today.
Anonymous No.24847389 [Report]
>>24847385
Anon...
Anonymous No.24847404 [Report] >>24847426
>>24847385
True, we need to reduce the population to 2 billion to lower the number of deaths
Anonymous No.24847426 [Report]
>>24847404
I dont think he will get it.
Anonymous No.24847432 [Report] >>24848166
>>24847340
You essentially are. First you're condescending someone for not understanding the concept the "correct" way, then I show you that your "correct" way is very far from being so, and now you claim that you're only asserting your own definition of liberalism. I don't have any problem with that, but don't act like it should be an intuitive one when anyone with a slight knowledge of the idea's history would tell you otherwise.
Anonymous No.24847461 [Report] >>24847487 >>24847494
>>24845711
Fukuyama's current take is that his "last man" predictions have come true. According to him liberal democracy did succeed in creating a prosperous great society but the chuds and leftards got uppity in their ressentiment because in their boredom they missed the sense of political struggle and glory, so we ended up with leftists burning the country in 2020 and chuds coalescing around Trump and other right-wing leaders. His solution seems to be that he wants a 90s-style centrist like Clinton in power who forges a greater sense of national identity to repel the influence of identity-based grievance politics.
Anonymous No.24847477 [Report] >>24848182
>>24847164
Honestly I think your understanding of US power is 15-20 years out of date. The US does not have the same level of global influence it had in the 1990s. Owning the board that the other players play on is out of the question at this point, especially since 2016. Genuine multipolarity is already here. The US and China are peer competitors. The EU is on course to be a peer competitor if it continues integrating. Russia is not a peer competitor but it's definitely a significant independent agent.
>>24847312
No need to keep apologising. There's not really much relationship between patriotism and this kind of power politics. You can love your country and still advocate for its decline through ignorance. You can be indifferent to your country and still advocate for its ascension through self-interest. The two have little to do with eachother. I'm Irish and very much advocate for Ireland giving up more agency to the EU and France, because the country is in a much more secure position as an integrated part of a European power blocc than as a lone, unarmed island smugly insisting on its own neutrality.
Anonymous No.24847487 [Report] >>24847509 >>24847630
>>24847461
How does he explain the development of non-liberal great powers like china? Does he think they're just going to become a democracy someday or that they can peacefully coexist with liberal democracies
Anonymous No.24847494 [Report] >>24847509
>>24847461
>uppity in their ressentiment because in their boredom they missed the sense of political struggle and glory
Does Fukuyama ever acknowledge events like the stagflation of the 1970s and the tendency for corporations to use the Federal Reserve as a backstop for irresponsible behavior?
Anonymous No.24847509 [Report] >>24847558 >>24847609
>>24847494
Sort of actually, he's not fond at all of neolib economics and says the inequality and corruption it produces helps facilitate the ressentiment of the masses

>>24847487
He explains things like China by being one of those "2 more weeks and the CCP will collapse" people. Although he has conceded that if China reunites with Taiwan with little opposition from the West, liberalism will be surpassed in power and likely never reach the heights it did in the 90s-Obama era even if he still believes it's inherently correct.
Anonymous No.24847558 [Report] >>24847586 >>24847619 >>24848317
>>24847509
Are there any indications that China is gearing up for an invasion of Taiwan. Last I checked, most of their economic growth in the last fifty years came from investment in capital, not in any technological innovation--even as their pouring more and more money into R&D.
Anonymous No.24847586 [Report] >>24847620
>>24847558
NTA but as far as I can tell China gets a lot more out of brinksmanship and chest beating over Taiwan than it would out of actually invading it. In much the same way that identity is formed through opposition, hot button issues to perform anger about and enemies to rally against are very valuable for justifying a political order, especially a totalitarian one. If they actually conquered Taiwan, they'd just have to find something else, and it probably wouldn't stir the blood of the average Chinaman as much as Taiwan does.
Anonymous No.24847606 [Report]
>>24846241
It can't happen soon enough.
Anonymous No.24847609 [Report]
>>24847509
>2 more weeks and the CCP will collapse
kek, no sign of that at all. even if xi dies tomorrow they still got others in line. meanwhile all it'll take is for grandaddy trump to fall down the stairs once and break his pumpkin head open and the entire american governmental apparatus gets gutted
Anonymous No.24847617 [Report] >>24847750
recommend me some books on masculinity that are good not slop. i asked an ai but it just gave me generic greek stuff everyone knows.
Anonymous No.24847619 [Report]
>>24847558
>Are there any indications that China is gearing up for an invasion of Taiwan
They regularly conduct live fire combined arms military exercises in the taiwan strait and say they want to annex taiwan either peacefully or by force by 2050. I don't know if that's a serious threat, but a lot of people think it is
>economic growth
From just a national security perspective, your main geopolitical rival having a refueling stop just off your coast is bad news. Same reason why the US was so hellbent on crushing latam regimes that were sympathetic to the USSR
Anonymous No.24847620 [Report] >>24847625 >>24847652
>>24847586
I always thought the constant pressure from saber-rattling would eventually cause the US influence to slowly breakdown and make concessions, but using Taiwan as an object of legitimacy sounds more appealing.
Anonymous No.24847625 [Report]
>>24847620
>I always thought the constant pressure from saber-rattling would eventually cause the US influence to slowly breakdown and make concessions
Oh wait, I just realized that that's what brinkmanship is.
Anonymous No.24847630 [Report]
>>24847487
The entire issue underpinning the idea of the end of history is what ideological regime will triumph as the ultimate and best order of human society. Fukuyama builds directly upon Alexandre Kojeve who held that the post-war world as a titanic struggle between western capitalism and Russian communism. Whichever side left would be the winner at the end of history and usher in the global homogeneous and universal state. Chinas resurgent rise under the CCP has brought us exactly to where we were during the Cold War. Technological advance threatens a complete paradigm shift in global affairs this time around and consequently there is no telling who or what, if anything, will truly and in a lasting manner triumph upon the world stage.
Anonymous No.24847652 [Report] >>24847672 >>24847725 >>24848317
>>24847620
As an aside, the reason the Russians actually invaded Ukraine, which you might be tempted to think of as a counterexample, is because the Russian state is in a much more precarious position than the CCP, for a host of reasons that mostly boil down to less competent administration. They needed something bigger than a grievance to legitimate themselves, and rolled the dice. Also the Russian leadership is significantly less reasonable and significantly more stupid than the Chinese leadership.
Anonymous No.24847672 [Report] >>24847683
>>24847652
I think it will pay off.
Anonymous No.24847683 [Report]
>>24847672
The penny is still in the air, but the longer the war goes on the less likely they are to secure a decisive victory, and the more of a humiliation it is for the state. It's hardly going to be legitimating for them to destroy their diplomatic reputation, become a pariah state and piss hundreds of thousands of lives up the wall for a pissy little compromise peace. The move only really makes sense if they really thought they could tidy the whole thing up quickly and easily.
Anonymous No.24847698 [Report]
>>24846122
>tranime poster
Anonymous No.24847711 [Report] >>24847731
>>24846280
debunked in 1776
>one nation, under God
Anonymous No.24847725 [Report] >>24847735 >>24847771
>>24847652
A lot of this sounds very similar to Foucault's distinction between disciplinary power and normalizing power. If states like China and Russia are facing existential crises, I wonder how much power the US really has for all of its military spending. In other words, how much of this perception of the US as an omnipotent and omnipresent force really is true if the ship is evidently sinking. Yet people will still blame the CIA for the Color Revolution. Maybe that's just yet another object of legitimacy that Russia is using?
Anonymous No.24847731 [Report] >>24847768
>>24847711
Rebunked in 1861. Possibly again quite soon.
Anonymous No.24847735 [Report]
>>24847725
>Maybe that's just yet another object of legitimacy that Russia is using?
I guess you can even say that that indirectly benefits the US.
Anonymous No.24847743 [Report]
>>24847281
>Out of genuine curiosity, assuming you are an American, do you want that for your country? This isnt some gotcha, I am curious.
Total world domination and the execution of all anti-Americans
Anonymous No.24847750 [Report]
>>24847617
>i asked an ai but it just gave me generic greek stuff everyone knows.
the homeric ideal is the peak of masculinity bro
Anonymous No.24847768 [Report] >>24847782
>>24847731
>Possibly again quite soon.
KEEEEEEEEEEEEEK you civil war tards have been saying there will be a second every day since August 21, 1866
Anonymous No.24847771 [Report] >>24847784 >>24847795
>>24847725
I wouldn't say China is in any sort of crisis. It is using Taiwan to legitimate itself, but legitimation is a constant ongoing process. It never stops. The state always has to be doing something, stagnation is the most insidious delegitimation of all. Russia is in such a crisis, but for purely contingent historical reasons, not because of the nature of the state per se. Russia has exactly one political institution and his name is Vladimir Putin. He's had two decades to remedy this but apparently didn't want to lol.

The US is definitely in decline though. Very few people still think of the US as the unchallenged master of the universe, and people are making moves. China has been hugely expanding its imperial influence for a decade or so now, and France has been moving to centralise the EU around Paris and to establish EU imperial influence abroad.
Anonymous No.24847782 [Report]
>>24847768
Only have to be right once. I give it two more weeks.
Anonymous No.24847784 [Report] >>24847795
>>24847771
>stagnation is the most insidious delegitimation of all
For a case study, Britain since the Suez crisis.
Anonymous No.24847795 [Report]
>>24847771
>>24847784
Thanks I'll look into it
Anonymous No.24847804 [Report] >>24847819 >>24848231
the us was delegitimized in 2020 when a cultural revolution usurped all of its institutions and stole an election
Anonymous No.24847819 [Report] >>24847827
>>24847804
Obviously you're a retard and that didn't happen, but the perception of it happening has been deeply delegitimating to the US, yeah.
Anonymous No.24847827 [Report] >>24847853 >>24847978
>>24847819
it did happen and perception is reality anyways when it comes to this topic
Anonymous No.24847853 [Report] >>24847868
>>24847827
>it did happen and perception is reality anyways when it comes to this topic
go slob on your orange zionist crime lords knob in a /pol/ thread
Anonymous No.24847868 [Report] >>24847998
>>24847853
not a fruitful opinion. you're just trying to legitimize your theft by any means possible.
Anonymous No.24847914 [Report] >>24848185
>>24845668 (OP)
>Liberalism failed.
Lol.
LMAO.

It literally succeeded. We have built the answer to the "okay... what now?" question Nieztche pointed out that the enlightenment posed.
Anonymous No.24847978 [Report] >>24847994
>>24847827
As I said, the perception of it happening has delegitimated the USA, yes. The response to it has also been an enormous catalyst of US decline. I'm not American, and I am very happy about this.
Anonymous No.24847994 [Report] >>24848001
>>24847978
we ameriKINGS will obliterate your sissy country in our death throes
Anonymous No.24847998 [Report] >>24848006
>>24847868
>On the other hand, it will be equally forgotten, that the vigour of government is essential to the security of liberty; that, in the contemplation of a sound and well informed judgment, their interest can never be separated; and that a dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people, than under the forbidding appearance of zeal for the firmness and efficiency of government. History will teach us, that the former has been found a much more certain road to the introduction of despotism, than the latter, and that of those men who have overturned the liberties of republics the greatest number have begun their carreer, by paying an obsequious court to the people, commencing Demagogues and ending Tyrants.
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Hamilton/01-04-02-0152
Miggers deserve bullets.
Anonymous No.24848001 [Report] >>24848008
>>24847994
No, Americans like my country almost as much as they like Israel.
Anonymous No.24848006 [Report] >>24848017
>>24847998
>trying to wear the skin of the nation you stole
we all remember you burning down the country and rewriting its history little guy. you're a demonic liar. you said that the country was evil, that the founding fathers were slavers. you're putrid anti-american filth.
Anonymous No.24848008 [Report] >>24848018
>>24848001
Japan/Korea/Ireland?
I can't think of any other country most Americans actually like
Anonymous No.24848017 [Report] >>24848026
>>24848006
I did and said no such thing. Trump however is a well-documented NYC yuppie who had a mafia lawyer as a mentor and who did construction business with the mafia, while procuring underage prostitutes from the most notorious white-collar criminal and human trafficker in over a generation. The high criminality and corruption that has seized the reins of power is a final indictment of liberal democracy and every rat that has supported it has what's coming. You are a retarded subhuman of apocalyptic proportions.
Anonymous No.24848018 [Report]
>>24848008
Ireland, good guess.
Anonymous No.24848026 [Report] >>24848028 >>24848031
>>24848017
no one cares about trump retard. it's you anti-american leftists that people rally against.
Anonymous No.24848028 [Report] >>24848034
>>24848026
Dishonest bad faith migger. Eat shit and die.
Anonymous No.24848031 [Report] >>24848034
>>24848026
>no one cares about trump retard.
Anonymous No.24848034 [Report] >>24848046
>>24848028
>>24848031
see, this is the problem with you leftists. you can't accept a truth when it's said directly to your face.
Anonymous No.24848046 [Report]
>>24848034
I'm a reactionary chud but okay you mind-rotted pig.
Anonymous No.24848166 [Report]
>>24847432
Yeah but your correction is wrong and based on lame semantics. No one who "understands history" would actually disagree with the notion that liberalism means the system of economics that developed after the collapse of feudalism, nor that all the political concepts of liberalism everyone in the thread is using are an extension of, not a separate entity from, the collapse of feudalism. As for my tone, cry about it.
Anonymous No.24848182 [Report]
>>24847477
The US owns the internets spine. China has a firewall for content and doesn't own its own internet stack. That's all anyone needs to say.
Anonymous No.24848185 [Report] >>24848190 >>24848537
>>24847914
Liberalism is not going to survive the 21st century. It's not going to survive the new right wing factions veritably composed of retarded psychopaths dreaming of ethnically cleansing the West. It's not going to survive the dissemination of information being completely corrupted by AI and the internet, thereby making literally everything in politics today an information war more than anything. It is going to crumble under the weight of all of this.
Anonymous No.24848187 [Report]
>>24845668 (OP)
Liberalism requires a moral and critically thinking population to survive. The population we have, however, is one whose only desire is for whatever is on the super value menu.
Anonymous No.24848190 [Report] >>24848203
>>24848185
Liberalism didn't fall, our illusions about it did.
Anonymous No.24848203 [Report] >>24848621
>>24848190
Liberalism IS an illusion though, it's fugazi, it's not even like people such as Fukuyama claim otherwise, all the elite liberals acknowledge it. If the illusion becomes way too much to handle then they'll eventually end it. The signs of decline is too obvious and too undeniable for anyone to really think liberalism will survive long-term.
Anonymous No.24848219 [Report]
Weird thing to call 50% GDP states and democratic fundamentalism "liberalism".
Anonymous No.24848231 [Report] >>24848260
>>24847804
Don't forget to buy some more trumpcoin so he can continue to turn the whitehouse into one of his shitty hotels.
Anonymous No.24848260 [Report]
>>24848231
By 2028 MAGA will have produced an economic recession which will publicize the government's blatant corruption, leave multiple countries like Venezuela even more in tatters, and will have discredited conservativism for the foreseeable future, leading conservatives to chimp out and become Breivik style terrorists.
Anonymous No.24848317 [Report] >>24848499
>>24846319
>That's not what liberalism means. Ive already laid this out. Liberalism doesn't mean liberal democracy, which is a political system that evolved within liberalism, which is an economic system.
There are both political and economic aspects, and the political aspects (individual rights, and limiting state power) reflect the economic aspects of free markets and private property. A really radical liberal (i.e. a libertarian) would say something like "free minds and free markets." This all came out of the Enlightenment in Europe. The idea is that political liberalism and economic liberalism are linked. At any rate, one of the arguments today is whether that will continue or not, or whether it might be replaced by something else. Like you could have an illiberal state that is authoritarian in many respects but that also turns out to be compatible with a market economy.

>>24847558
>Are there any indications that China is gearing up for an invasion of Taiwan.
Not imminently but they are "gearing up" or investing a lot of money and training in what they'd need to do to pull something like that off, for sure. Like building / training with amphibious landing ships, expanding their version of the Marine Corps, and building up their navy in general while also doing exercises that have them encircling Taiwan. I don't think it's a near-term risk though. This kind of thing is the most difficult military operation to pull off and they'd have to do it on large scale without any IRL experience at war. Doesn't seem like a good deal.

>Last I checked, most of their economic growth in the last fifty years came from investment in capital, not in any technological innovation--even as their pouring more and more money into R&D.
Yeah. Well they have some high-tech companies, like my 3D printer is Chinese. There are these sleek tier 1 cities, but there's a crazy difference between those cities and everywhere else, like the fact that there's 600 million people there making $5/day. That's what I read the trade war is about, China produces way more stuff than its own domestic economy can absorb. Trump wants the U.S. to make more stuff, and the U.S. wants China to buy more of its own stuff, but China can't do that because it's economic model isn't built that way. There's really no social safety net there either and the population is rapidly aging.

>>24847652
>As an aside, the reason the Russians actually invaded Ukraine, which you might be tempted to think of as a counterexample, is because the Russian state is in a much more precarious position than the CCP, for a host of reasons that mostly boil down to less competent administration.
I think that's right. The Russian state is some kind of half-built loony bin and I don't think Putin and his top guys really know how to maneuver without generating some kind of crisis or emergency situation.
Anonymous No.24848499 [Report]
>>24848317
I agree entirely with you; but thats literally what I said
Anonymous No.24848537 [Report]
>>24848185
Communication was already corrupt before computers and AI just from people lying and yellow journalism etc
Anonymous No.24848621 [Report] >>24848623
>>24848203
Liberalism never was. It's just a theory someone came up with that is immediately and fatally overwhelmed by more powerful forces.
Anonymous No.24848623 [Report]
>>24848621
really? ok i'll be back in 30 minutes
Anonymous No.24848641 [Report] >>24848653 >>24848714
>Thread is overrun with midwits confusing the political philosophy with the school of thought in IR
Believing that your personal ideological grievances will conveniently map out how states will behave is hilariously retarded. Akin to believing the alignment of the stars or your personal opinions on abortion will have an effect on whether the U.S invades Mongolia.

Half of this thread is just retards wishing to Santa that their ideological enemies are destroyed. Imagine thinking you can predict the trajectory of this country when you can’t even foresee a way to improve your lives without a literal upheaval of the entire system. And so unimaginative too, I miss when there were real schizos that had something new to say. You just equal them in retardation, none of the charming novelty.
Anonymous No.24848653 [Report]
>>24848641
Fucking finally. Someone else who isnt dumb as fuck
Anonymous No.24848714 [Report]
>>24848641
>>confusing the political philosophy with the school of thought in
It's neither of those things either btw, it's when you let gay people get married or vote for a democrat
I ignore women No.24848722 [Report]
>>24846653
bad b8
Anonymous No.24848725 [Report] >>24848754
>>24846624
Russia is a liberal-democratic society and the fact that most people are too retarded to understand this is why this world is going to shit.
Anonymous No.24848754 [Report]
>>24848725
>Russia democratic

Uhh, bro?
Anonymous No.24848760 [Report]
>>24845933
But you can. The issue is that the system is so needlessly over complicated that you can't accurately do it in advance.
Anonymous No.24848800 [Report] >>24848887
>>24845668 (OP)
I mean I agree with the title of the book, but the arguments it presents are insane. Someone who's actually read it should correct me if it presents this argument, but liberalism is failing purely for economic reasons, and it was doomed to fail because it was doomed to create those economic conditions.
Put simply, liberalism is a way of legitimizing the rule of a capitalist state by means of apparent freedoms. It can lean left or right with how many freedoms it offers its subjects. Leaning leftward offers freedoms like welfare and limited working hours to the people, but this comes at an economic cost. Leaning rightward restricts those freedoms, and leaning all the way right transitions to fascism.
The problem is that a capitalist economy will always stagnate. It has to, growth cannot be sustained indefinitely. When this happens though, a left-leaning liberal society sees economic turmoil that can only be resolved through the elimination of freedoms. This is why it fails, the natural progression of the economy makes liberalism ALWAYS decay into fascism.
This book presents a non-solution, since it sees the right-leaning form of liberalism as the solution to liberalism, but it's really just a step closer to fascism. It fails to recognize that the economy is what's actually in control here, and so the solution must be in the abolition of capitalism and not in embracing fascism.
Anonymous No.24848810 [Report]
>>24845668 (OP)
Liberalism did not fail. It actually really is the only ideology worthy of Man and we're seeing how valuable it is by contrasting it with the current Christofascist nonsense that has subverted America.
Anonymous No.24848887 [Report]
>>24848800
Hate to break it to ya but capitalism isn't stagnating it's flourishing better than ever and the purest state military backed form is still and will remain on top for the foreseeable future.