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Anonymous No.23597732 [Report] >>23597772 >>23597773 >>23597778 >>23597817 >>23597953 >>23598161 >>23598494
08th ms team retarded plot device...
>Zeon: hurrr, we need to destroy the guntanks, ignore the gundams
>Feds: guntanks are really important, don't let them be destroyed

Meanwhile in the OG gundam, the RX-78-2 was 10000000x times more lethal than any guntank crap.
Anonymous No.23597772 [Report] >>23599298
>>23597732 (OP)
1) Ground Gundams are basically buffed up GMs, so it is a flawed comparison.
2) Most of RX-78-2 lethality came from having a reliable beam rifle. In 08th MS Team, beam rifles are both rare and inferior, so artilery plays a more important role.
Anonymous No.23597773 [Report]
>>23597732 (OP)
Guntanks are more like mobile artillery who get coordinates on where to fire like irl howitzers and the RX79 ground type is slightly above a GM with since its built blem RX78 parts.
Anonymous No.23597778 [Report]
>>23597732 (OP)
Lol yeah when I first watched 08th MS Team after 0079 my initial thought was 'isn't 3 Gundams kinda overkill', but in universe the Gundam Ground Types aren't 'true' Gundams, more like a waste product of trying to create the Gundam, so in that sense I can totally see Guntanks having vital tactical utility that the Ground Types aren't expected to fulfil.
Anonymous No.23597817 [Report] >>23597859 >>23598031 >>23600167
>>23597732 (OP)
Neither the Ground Gundams or their pilots are near the ability of the RX-78-2 or Amuro Ray.
Anonymous No.23597859 [Report]
>>23597817
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J85jV37CsYE
Anonymous No.23597953 [Report] >>23598031
>>23597732 (OP)
Are you forgetting the part where all of this is happening because the feds are besieging a fortress? Or even when Norris literally says the Guntanks will shoot down the Kerguelen so he needs to kill them first?
Anonymous No.23598031 [Report]
>>23597817
Originally the animation and movement was a bit.. floatier? but then they decided to have it skew a bit closer to how 0083's ground battles played out.

>>23597953
also because they were using them to pound the fuck out of all of the mountain base's defenses and entrances, and the zeeks didn't have much artillery or air units of their own to counter or prevent it from happening
Anonymous No.23598161 [Report] >>23598187
>>23597732 (OP)
The weirdest part of the finale is that Zeon doesn't have counter batteries or cannons to fire back against the Guntank positions. They had absolutely no static defenses either to shoot back.

Even during the final days of WW2, the Germans and Japanese still had artillery cannons and batteries to shoot enemy positions.

It makes no sense that Zeon had nothing.
Anonymous No.23598187 [Report] >>23598271 >>23598313
>>23598161
At that point they'd retreated back through every last defensive line of that facility, they didn't have the strategic depth to have anything topside and stationary that wouldn't get immediately pounded by ground forces or air power. Best they could do was use the big tunnel network the Federation hadn't cleared yet to send out harassing forces to buy them the last few hours they needed.
Anonymous No.23598210 [Report]
Anonymous No.23598271 [Report] >>23598299 >>23598311 >>23598317
>>23598187
Okay, but what's stopping a Zaku grabbing a 180mm cannon and just firing artillery shells at the city where the Guntanks are located? The Zaku itself can be a mobile turret. We've seen that done numerous times.
Anonymous No.23598299 [Report]
>>23598271
Who knows. They might not have the shells to do it, might not be set up to do indirect fire, might not have accurate enough data on their location to guarantee effective fire on an important target. If you have to put someone out there to get you a proper target anyway then it might make more sense to have them try and take it out than to have a second team emerge somewhere else as an improvised artillery section, then try to aim at a designated target while not getting their shit rocked out in the open wherever they are. At least if you're mixed in with your enemy in an urban environment you deny them the ability to just level your grid square.
Unless they had a couple dozen Zakus and appropriate cannons, they wouldn't be able to do enough damage fast enough before getting levelled by counter-battery or air power if all they know is 'in that city'. Given that they allowed a single Gouf to go on a suicide mission to get the job done, I suspect they didn't have those resources spare.
At some point you also just have to decide if you want to watch a cool robot fight or not. I think it's pretty reasonable here with how much Zeon's been rolled back into their bunker and worn down that they can't manage anything more.
Anonymous No.23598311 [Report]
>>23598271
Maybe they thought getting in close with their more agile mechs was the better play than getting in long range artillery duels against long range artillery platforms.
Anonymous No.23598313 [Report] >>23598323
>>23598187
It's strange. If I recall 08th MS team correctly, in the previous episodes before the finale, Zeon was still doing quite well. They had bases and mobile suits in the area. But then the final episodes happen and it immediately cuts to Zeon getting their ass kicked and Zeon hiding in a mountain. There was no transition at all. I think that's a major problem of 08th MS team.
Anonymous No.23598317 [Report]
>>23598271
Not having one I guess. Might be a supply line issue, which would be in character for zeon.
Anonymous No.23598323 [Report] >>23598408
>>23598313
about halfway through 08th MS team, operation odessa canonically takes place. before that point, zeon still had a decently strong position on earth. after operation odessa where the federation finally breaks the stalemate and scores a major win in europe, zeon's earth front starts collapsing.

we don't see odessa in 08th MS team except for like one scene because odessa is in europe while shiro and his team are fighting in south east asia. but you see other details like admiral kellerne bitching about the feds taking odessa from them and his damaged forces having to retreat back to ginias' base, losing gear along the way.
Anonymous No.23598408 [Report] >>23598423
>>23598323
It was my understanding that Zeon had 3 major landing zones.

North America - Under command of Garma

Europe/north Africa - (this includes Odessa) under command of Kycillia

South East Asia - under command of Giren

Each of these forces operated independently and didn't really support eachother. So even if one force was defeated, the others should still be fine. I don't really understand how Odessa falling means the end for Zeon on Earth. It's just one Stronghold
Anonymous No.23598423 [Report] >>23599021
>>23598408
Odessa Day was the start of the Feddie counter-offensive that turned the tide, the start of wide deployment of production RGM-79s to the front. Nobody says Odessa falling was literally the cause of Zeon's rout on Earth just like nobody would say the Normandy landings were the specific cause of the collapse of the Third Reich, but people still talk about how D-Day was a critical turning point.
Anonymous No.23598494 [Report]
>>23597732 (OP)
Yeah, If only they actually had access to said RX-78-2 in that theatre, huh.
Anonymous No.23599021 [Report] >>23599173 >>23599183
>>23598423
But this doesn't explain why Zeon rapidly fell on Earth.

Just to take Odessa, it took 75% of the Earth Federation military gathered together to take the base. And even then, they almost failed.
Anonymous No.23599173 [Report] >>23599182 >>23599185
>>23599021
Garma Dies > Odessa falls > majority of zeon command on earth escapes to space > zeekes launch one last hail mary attack on jaburo led by char and it fails > apsalus is destroyed > zeon abandons the earth with no clear path left to destroy the federations ability to resist > most of the earthside zeekes surrender or fuck off and become insurgnets

It makes perfect sense honestly just on a very shockingly squashed time scale because all of that happens in about a month.
Anonymous No.23599182 [Report] >>23599228 >>23600202
>>23599173
Wouldn't only the Odessa survivors escape? Why would the other commanders from other battlefronts on earth run away
Anonymous No.23599183 [Report] >>23599199
>>23599021
In other words, 25% of the Earth Federation military was enough to keep two other fronts entertained. Freeing a large chunk of the rest of the military combined with EF making better weapons would explain how they folded, don't you think?
Plus, North America was probably weakened from the misadventures of the White Base.
The biggest contributor though, was likely Zeon's Jaburo assault fiasco that funneled a lot of resources away from their other ground troops.
Anonymous No.23599185 [Report]
>>23599173
Once again really just comes down to the insistence on the concept of the "one year war" condensing the timeline too much. Unfortunate it wasn't a year from when Amuro gets the gundam
Anonymous No.23599199 [Report]
>>23599183
>In other words, 25% of the Earth Federation military was enough to keep two other fronts entertained.

I always figured the two other fronts just thought

>"haha. Those losers are at Odessa are under attack? No we aren't going to help them. With the Federation so busy attacking Odessa, we basically are going to get a vacation for the next 2 weeks."

Or something like that.
Anonymous No.23599214 [Report]
Look at this retard who doesn’t see the value in shelling someone out of sight, miles away
Anonymous No.23599228 [Report] >>23599235
>>23599182
They assumed (correctly probably) that with Odessa destroyed Zeon wasn't going to be sending anyone any new HLV's or orbit capable Zanzibars. So they got while the getting was good. Yuri shows up in 08th to more or less steal Gineas's Zanzibar to get his crew home. He was only going to take Aina and her people because he had a soft spot for her and wanted to play the hero.

It also might have been a play by Kycilia to leave a shit load of Ghirens more die hard supporters earthside to get them out of the way for her eventual coup. Zeon has just as many internal factors for its failures as it did external.
Anonymous No.23599235 [Report] >>23599289
>>23599228
>They assumed (correctly probably) that with Odessa destroyed Zeon wasn't going to be sending anyone any new HLV's or orbit capable Zanzibars.

Wait. Stop here. Explain you logic. Why can't Zeon send ships to land in North America?
Anonymous No.23599289 [Report]
>>23599235
iirc Zeon loses the entire west coast of the USA by December, and right before that Jaburo launches multiple whole fleets in late November to begin the new GM equipped offensive in space. Zeon lose high orbit supremacy and don't see the value in rescuing a bunch of infantry and ground type zakus who can't fight in space.
Anonymous No.23599298 [Report] >>23599301 >>23600167
>>23597772
>2) Most of RX-78-2 lethality came from having a reliable beam rifle.
Most of the RX-78-2's lethality came from Amuro sitting in the cockpit.
Anonymous No.23599301 [Report] >>23599339 >>23600167
>>23599298
That too. Having his pilot data made lives of EF shoefitters a lot easier, considering that Gundams and GMs are harder to control than Zeon's mobile suits as is.
Still, you can't just pin it all just on Amuro considering other EFF aces with 100+ kills, like Tenneth A. Tung.
Anonymous No.23599339 [Report]
>>23599301
>Still, you can't just pin it all just on Amuro considering other EFF aces with 100+ kills, like Tenneth A. Tung.
Yeah, those kill counts are inflated from the way EFSF regulations count mobile suits being docked in HLVs as "individual" kills. Jung was part of the space front shooting down Zeon HLVs fleeing Odessa.
Anonymous No.23599424 [Report] >>23599454 >>23599472
Federation sudden comeback makes no sense. Zeon destroyed almost their entire space fleet. How is the Federation regaining space supremacy?
Anonymous No.23599454 [Report]
>>23599424
I don't think that they ever got space supremacy. IIRC they just crushed Zeon's hope of getting the Earth and than gone for blitzkrieg on some of their important locations.
Anonymous No.23599472 [Report] >>23599503
>>23599424
Luna II is still an EF foothold in space, and Zeon never fully controlled Earth's orbit or space itself even post Operation British. There's an entire IGLOO episode dedicated to Zeon trying to shoot down fleets that Jaburo keeps launching, and before the EF had widespread MS use stuff like the Ball Minelayer produced their highest scoring anti-ship aces.
Anonymous No.23599503 [Report] >>23599696
>>23599472
I don't disagree with events. But it seems odd that Zeon suddenly became impotent after winning the Battle of Loum and smashing the Federation space fleet. They should be at the peak of their power.

Why doesnt Zeon have enough ships to blockade Luna 2?

Why doesn't Zeon take or destroy Luna 2?

Before any treaty was signed, why not hit Luna 2 with nuclear missiles and destroy it?

Char was able to do it with just 14 ships during CCA.

I just want an explanation so I can understand Zeon's lack of strength despite winning the space war.
Anonymous No.23599696 [Report] >>23599701
>>23599503
Zeon crippled the EFSF's offensive capabilities through speed and surprise, that doesn't mean they have the capability to mop up every single space asset in a more protracted fight, especially now that the EFSF knows what Zeon's mobile suits can do and has a chance to plan for them.
As for why not nuke it, Zeon were all-in on their plan to force the EF out of the war with the strike on Jaburo. They probably didn't want to divert resources, nor damage something they'd hoped to be able to occupy after.
Keep in mind too Zeon is severely limited in manpower and accessible resources compared to the Earth Federation. Supporting a bridgehead from orbit is a mammoth logistical undertaking, the kind of thing that nobody in human history has ever done anything comparable to. There's simply no way that Zeon could keep the same level of intensity of space operations while also facilitating the invasion of Earth.
Anonymous No.23599701 [Report] >>23599762 >>23599835 >>23599990
>>23599696
>Zeon crippled the EFSF's offensive capabilities through speed and surprise, that doesn't mean they have the capability to mop up every single space asset in a more protracted fight
Are you seriously telling me Zeon could completely destroy 5 Colony Sides, blow up hundreds of Colonies, kill Billions of people, but not have enough power left to take a puny asteroid base?
Anonymous No.23599762 [Report]
>>23599701
Yes.

The One Week Battle was a complete surprise attack on the Earth Federation, with a Space Navy coming out of nowhere, and with chemical WMDs to first clear out Island Iffish to use it as a kinetic WMD to drop onto Jaburo.

Of which the fallout caused said billions of casualties, including both Feddies & Zeke armed forces.
Anonymous No.23599835 [Report]
>>23599701
Yes. If Zeon had a strong chance of winning the war conventionally, they wouldn't have gambled it all on a knockout opening blow.
Anonymous No.23599990 [Report]
>>23599701
Yes. Speed, suprise, and technological superioritygot them far initially but once the momentum was lost the war became one of attrition where the EFF held the advantage. Operation British was tremendously costly for Zeon and rendered it impossible for them to effectively attack Luna II; while attacking and dropping it on Earth was indeed one of their threats it was a bluff they could not support. In CCA Char managed to perform a colony drop through a combination of popular support (other colonies could not respond against him without rioting or terrorism) and bargaining/lying, e.g. telling the EFF he'd surrender his weapons in exchange for the purchase of Axis, using dummy balloons to trick EFF officials into thinking his fleet was in port while actually performing the drop operation, etc.
Anonymous No.23600167 [Report] >>23600190
>>23597817
>>23599298
>>23599301
I hate all this powerscaling shit that comes up in relation to UC side materials
Stop talking about Amuro like hes Goku or something
Anonymous No.23600190 [Report]
>>23600167
Might as well be.
Mind you, a lot of that was shown in the original show.
Anonymous No.23600202 [Report]
>>23599182
Disrupted supply chains, they likely reasoned they didn't have the capability to hold the ground any longer.