Thread 126740972

>AI music is bad!!
Ok, why?
>Because it sounds like shit!!
Ok, but in 5 years it will sound just as good as human made music
>Yeah but it will still be AI slop that's not made by humans!!
Ok, but why does that matter? Can't you separate the art from the artist?
>But AI steals from real artists!!
Ok, but isn't that what sampling is?
>N-No that's different!!
>Ok, how?
>.......REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>126740972 (OP)
shit thread

>>126741052
I disagree

>>126740972 (OP)
it's not as simple as saying "bro you can't even tell the difference it's just like human music!" this is completely uncharted territory. by supporting AI music, you are slowly eroding what it means to be human. AI music may be technically sound but it will never innovate. it does not have that human ingenuity, that spark that allows us to meld what we have into novel things. supporting AI music effectively means being frozen in time. nothing will ever change, we will never get better. we will never get new things. we've already been seeing this in the past ~15 years before AI music showed up. do you really want to continue down that road?

>>126741139
Shit opinion

>strawman the nuanced points of AI in music to absurdity
>create bait post on /mu/
>collect (you)s
well done

>>126741139
because you're a soulless bot.

>>126741267
I don't think you understand what a strawman is

>>126741237
Art doesn't have to be innovative to be good. If you're too discouraged by AI making enjoyable art to innovate your own then that's your problem.

>>126741237
>but it will never innovate.
You are already listen to shit human music anyway, 99% of music that are on the TOPs arent remotely innovation. We should kill bad musicians. and AI is the way.

>>126740972 (OP)
Art has to be made by a human or with human intention, AI is not a human and has no human intentions, therefore its not art, just like listening to birds chirping or ocean waves is beautiful bot not art. Lot of the concepts before AI cant really be applied without changing them because before AI anything that was no nature was human made with human intentions.

And saying that you cant change definitions to preserve meaning is stupid. Imagine Plato that defines human as naturally featherless biped. For centuries that definition stands because all mammals in Greece except humans are quadrupeds and all birds have naturally feathers even if you pluck them. Then somebody arrives in Athenes with Kangaroo. Does that mean that Kangaroo is a human? No it means that the definition and ideas about what is human has to change, just like how separating artist from art only works if its humans doing it or how art needs to be human made.

>>126740972 (OP)
>Ok, but in 5 years it will sound just as good as human made music
this will not happen, ai cannot express emotion in the way humans can
it's a distinctly human trait
it's the same reason ai art will always have tells that human art doesn't

>>126741503
Yeah and with AI it will be 100% dumb fuck. 99% of people have never invented anything in their life, be it some original world changing idea or some innovation, but that 1% that does has moved us from caves to heated buildings with electricity and internet. Music has changed since 2015 in small ways and it has changed a lot from 2005 in big ways, but you wont have that with AI, it will forever be stuck in 2023 or whatever.

>>126741511
AI is made by humans

>>126741517
It can mimic expressing emotions which is enough to fool humans. If they however say that it was AI generated then they will get a huge backlash, but otherwise they wont because nobody will notice.

>>126741537
>but that 1% that does has moved us from caves to heated buildings with electricity and internet
*To caves to AI.
Sorry, but AI would create the original and innovate music of the future, I mean, the present.
We just going to put "give me new innovative music for dinner time" on our phones and it would generate pleasant music.

>>126741553
Yeah, but if human invention creates something, that this later isnt human made, do you understand? If I pick up Minecraft, a videogame, that is arguably an art, but if I generate a world in that game where it procedurally makes random mountain terrain and then places trees on it, that is not an art. Sure as like a one time curiosity it could be considered an art, but once it starts being mass produced it becomes a slop, and anything that generative AI makes falls under that category these days.

Furthermore AI isn't really a human invention anymore then dog breeds or corn is. All AI (machine learning) is made by programming a self-learning algorithm and then giving that algorithm enough training data to make it learn something, be it producing more similar data in case of generative AI, or learn how to spot or control something.

>>126740972 (OP)
>but in 5 years it will sound just as good as human made music
No it won't.

>>126741626
if a human created that same exact minecraft terrain brick by brick, it would be art?

>>126741606
Ok, but it wont move the music or culture further. And by asking it to create you new and innovative music it will probably just remix something in a way which you have not listened to and trick you into thinking its new and innovative. You will not know any new generas because there wont be any, since it just takes in prompts and takes out something that approximates the learning data. Even if it sometimes creates something that could be considered new and innovative, it will just be lost immediately, and your argument that "I will just ask it to make me pleasant music for dinnertime" sounds like you don't even give a fuck about listening to slop in the first place. You just call music that sounds bad to you slop and thinks that even the artsy people do that too, but they are just too much of a hypocrites to admit it.

>>126741591
mimicry is not the same and the human brain is cognizant of that, it's a survival mechanism

>>126741662
I mean, pretty much. People on YouTube make creative worlds where they do landscaping and everyone who watches it calls it art. Yes, its not exactly the same as the one that Minecraft makes and usually looks better, but yes, it pretty much would be. And you could see this argument go further by looking at some Terrain generation mods that make the terrain look like it was made by some Minecraft builder artist, and when that happens people call the mod art rather then calling their worlds art, again proving that if human creation creates something, the other thing stops being human creation.

>>126741673
Yes, but when you are making a love song its the same. The reason why faking it usually ends up bad is because most people are bad at faking emotions, but AIs are great at that. Chatbots have been proven to be several times better at convincing people of different ideas then humans are.

>>126741719
no retard, humans are literally biologically wired to be able to tell human speech from anything else
it's the same way animals communicate and learn to differentiate the real sounds of their species from predators trying to bait them

>>126740972 (OP)
Why are these AI weirdos constantly jerking off their trash no one cares how it sounds like, music is art and art cannot be produced by artificial intelligence, it involves emotions. Also, comparing sampling to this is hilarious

The Art is the artist and cannot be separated. Retards just say shit like that to cope with liking art from someone without their exact morals. AI music lacks all of the skill real music has. There must be a personality and a possibility to fuck up.

>>126741757
AI can understand emotion just fine. It doesn't need first hand experience of feeling emotion to create emotive art you retard.

>>126741762
This. Separating art from the artist usually means just separating the bad more well known parts of their personality with the artwork. Like you being able to appreciate Hitler's paintings and connecting with him or thinking about what ideas he had while ignoring his opinions on jews. You could still connect with Hitler's artwork even if you aren't a neonazi, but you cannot connect with AI because even if it has consciousness, its whole life is just being locked in some PC and knowing nothing but how to produce sound wavelengths that describe the prompt.

>>126740972 (OP)
>>AI music is bad!!
>Ok, why?
>>Because it sounds like shit!!
>Ok
in a normal world...

>>126741780
Yeah, but they are fake and can only be fake, which most people don't want if you told them, at least most listeners. And just because they cant tell does not mean that what they want is irrelevant. You tricking them does not prove your point.

>>126740972 (OP)
LAzy rage bait thread

>>126740972 (OP)
AI grifters are so pathetic. They know their critics are right when they call them lazy and talentless but they’re too deep in the grift to admit it.

>>126741816
>You tricking them does not prove your point.
If you felt emotion from a piece of music then you weren't tricked. You just feel bad that you liked AI music because AI le bad.

>>126741906
Who likes AI music?

>>126741906
You didn't fell the artist emotion. For me, but also lot of other people especially in 2023 AI art all felt the same, not by the looks but by the fact that it gave people mostly the feeling of dread and hollowness. You can see it when giving people a picture that does not look AI generated, asking them what they feel, and then reveal its AI and watch their emotions shift.

In the future any artist can copy a novel chord progression and song form generated by AI and just re-record it on an acoustic guitar and all the copers will say it's human and so beautiful in its imperfections.
Songwriting as an art form will be forever sullied and no one will be able to trust that an artist has really written a song.

It's over I'm afraid.

>>126742060
A chord progression isn't a song.

>>126742066
Song structure, chord progression and a tempo is a song.

>>126741982
Me
https://www.udio.com/songs/qiheaTP66egSKBcEBVpbK2

real AI music hasn't been tried yet
https://www.bitchute.com/video/74hmQ07CQMRx

>>126740972 (OP)
You realise AI can only make music based on sampling past music?
Everything would turn into vaporwave and not in a cool way, because AI has no feelings moods nostalgia, it's just software calculating some average based on the parameters you input

>>126740972 (OP)
>5 years
Kekw let's wait until that day comes first

>>126742066
>music before the invention of audio recording music isn't music because it's just notes on a sheet music without emotions or a human performance
>electronic music programmed in a DAW in a MIDI piano roll isn't music

>>126742281
Notes on a page are not music. They are instructions to make music. Music is sound.

>>126742060
No, you will just generate video of yourself playing the acoustic guitar. Not even non-digital artists are safe. Its over for human creativity forever

>>126742341
That's just a colloqiualism.

>>126740972 (OP)
There has never been a valuable piece of art in my life that I've asked for. The best experiences come from what I didn't even know I wanted. Typing up a prompt and getting exactly what I ask for is mindless content to waste time with

oh no AI is gonna make garbage music for normies with shit taste instead of the people who the machine learned said garbage from

>>126740972 (OP)
I fart on cabbages

AI has no place in arts and I will not listen to any music made by it. Simple as.

>>126748936
Implying you have a choice kek

>>126740972 (OP)
>N-No that's different!!
This is where he lost. Sampling is only used by hacks, it's in the same bucket as AI and electronic music, soulless garbage.

>leftists crave to have their culture replaced by brown people
>right wingers crave to their culture replaced by AI
what causes this

>>126749278
>crave to their
whatever you get the idea

>>126741052
Bait thread too

>>126741237
>you are slowly eroding what it means to be human
how so? and why does this matter?
>it will never innovate. it does not have that human ingenuity
ok, so? that doesn't mean it makes it bad or invalid
>supporting AI music effectively means being frozen in time. nothing will ever change, we will never get better. we will never get new things
you think AI will replace humanity as a whole? you think supporting AI means supporting this?

>>126740972 (OP)
>but in 5 years itll sound good
You cant use speculation as evidence, retard

>>126749496
>I'm too retarded to recognize patterns and make informed predictions

>>126749505
The most realistic prediction is that AI music will oversaturate the internet so much it'll start inbreeding and become increasingly pajeetified.

AI isn't exactly progressing as well as predicted. in fact i'd argue that it has stagnated.

>>126741553
It actually isn’t, it’s more arranged by humans; kind of like a garden is arranged by human hand but no one would say the plants are human made, only human shaped.

>>126740972 (OP)
ai can never replicate sovl and passion

>>126750007
plants predate humans, ai doesn't

>>126750220
Neural nets predate terrestrial plants dude.

>>126749529
>AI music will oversaturate the internet so much it'll start inbreeding
This. AI is training on itself at this point.

>using stable diffusion trained on spectrograms of pop and rock music to produce spectrograms that are then converted back into audio
>"music"
I hate the the slop eaters genuinely can't tell how bad the slop really is, and I hate that all forms of art are viewed by a society of consumers to be solely products.

Let me put it this way.
I went to high school with a certain famous musician. He's considered the best musician alive at his chosen instrument and has been for over twenty five years now (we're both in our forties). The top criticism i hear of his playing is that he's basically a music box or automaton, playing every rendition of a piece exactly the same way as he has every other time he's played it. While I, to be honest, don't actually know enough about his playing to say one way or the other, I can imagine people will have the same to say about AI performance. Without the human capacity for error or variance, they'd argue, performance is pointless. This is also an argument I hear about teaching children to play using the Suzuki method (coupled with the often-held belief that children taught using Suzuki are often too young to understand the pieces they're being taught to play).
Back to that musician, I mostly remember him as the guy who molested the training dummy during CPR training in health class.

>>126749316
NTA but just asking empty questions in response to statements like this is not rhetoric, you're just being a fucking faggot

>>126740972 (OP)
I listen to music because of it's cultural significance, not (just) because of how it sounds.

>>126745120
you understand.

>>126750515
>we're both in our forties
god DAMN unc
go raise yo kids nigga lmfao

>>126745120
>I have never created art before
Loser

>>126750823
you're probably too old to be using zoomer lingo, so hop off grandpa's cock. old niggaz have better taste than we do

>>126750422
it is and Ai researchers are trying to convince investors that's a good thing. They call it synthetic data and try to draw parallels about how its actually better then data from internet.

>>126750836
Yeah, not everyone is an artist, and also that is not the same. When you create art its different then when you find it and consume it.

>>126750823
Ha!
Early forties! And my son's at the pool down the street/around the corner. I'm going to be picking him up to walk him home in a few minutes, actually.

>>126749278
leftists are fully pessimist, 100% invvested into materialist nihilsm and total culture dissolution.
rightists are enticed by nostaliga, the past, the moment that has to be restored that was never there.
both are fake and gay.

>>126740972 (OP)
correct
good music is good music how it came to be has no bearing in it

>>126749278
Leftists believe all people are the same so their culture never dies, instead gets molded by brown people
Right wingers like seeing leftists seethe about AI and are looking forward to making racist cartoons for their kids that big media would now allow

>>126740972 (OP)
>Can't you separate the art from the artist?
No, art and artist goes hand in hand. I’m interested in music, literature, film etc because of the artists in question, not in spite of them.

>>126740972 (OP)
AI music can make for a funny joke, ridiculous lyrics provided
other than that it's hardly worthwhile
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLQwVdcctvQ

>>126749505
I hope you never become a lawyer. Or any career where you have to use your brain. I guess thats all careers...oh well. Ill take that order to go, please.

The only reason anyone pretends to give a shit about this is because Altman, Musk and such went with Trump.

enormous potential for good if people would only grasp it

>>126754941
why do you make stuff like this up?

>>126740972 (OP)
Removing the human element from things just makes stuff depressing
The internet provides artificial interactions with people
I enjoyed the 2 hours I spent walking around with a girl on Saturday way more than any conversation I'd had online in the last 10 years

>>126749316
kill yourself immediately.

>>126754941
Do you understand what a false dichotomy is?

>>126740972 (OP)
I can't see them solving the incest problem unless you specifically train an ai for a single song curating the input and at that point just writing a song would be less effort.
If corpo wouldn't already serve canned shit to the masses nobody would have this discussion anyway.
>but what if an ai song will be good by sheer accident
I will listen to it and don't give a fuck.

It will be hilarious when the time comes where people are unable to tell ai apart

>>126740972 (OP)
>Ok, but isn’t that what sampling is?
Maybe we should disregard nignog music?
Also, AI can’t perform on stage.
People want another human they think holds all their subconscious ideologies and are better than them at life. AI celebrity musician just isn’t possible.
Maybe another from of some gorillaz type shit is the MOST it can do.
It’s a human thing buddy.

>>126741780
Signaling and receiving are not the same thing…
AI only receives.
It’s like chicken or the egg situation, you can argue all day but bottom line is chicken hatches the egg and that chicken evolved from evolution to be able to hatch eggs in the first place.

>>126742341
I don’t agree with OP but isn’t the whole point of a definition is NOT using colloquialism or abstractions?
>quantum mechanics aside

>>126742385
I accidentally tagged my response to OP instead of you I’m drunk

>>126749240
>amish man playing guitar blocks your path

>>126750515
LARP
You would have said who that person was.
Nobody would hide the fact they knew a famous musician on a anonymous music board kek
Half this board is failed musicians.

>>126740972 (OP)
Get em OP

>>126755811
I usually ignore my gf when she talks to post here
It’s all the same

>>126740972 (OP)
>O-ok, b-but in 5 years
Kill yourself

>>126740972 (OP)
Brown hands made this thread.

>>126740972 (OP)
>Ok, but in 5 years it will sound just as good as human made music
lol sure anon sure

>>126759899
I think "music" in the way that definition reads is really just a shorthand for "sheet music".