What is the real reason why they basically muted the bass guitar in Metallica's And Justice for All?

>>126933896 (OP)
because james and lars were perpetually drunk assholes still in their 20s that had no guidance on how to properly grieve for their fallen bandmate. they knew they had to continue but regardless of who was the new bassist he would attract their ire because he wasn't cliff.

>>126933936
>but regardless of who was the new bassist he would attract their ire because he wasn't cliff.

I mean look at this asshole he's even wearing Cliff's signature denim jacket

>>126933896 (OP)
it was just the sound Lars wanted

>>126933961
Bullshit. Flemming Rasmussen just did a bad job because he was drunk all the time.

>>126933896 (OP)
Because Jason fucking sucked as a bassist, there I said what all of you Jason fanboys and reddit armchair psychologists could never say.

he sucked for possibly 2 reasons

>1. He was uncreative as a bassist and literally only played along Hetfield's root notes unlike Cliff and later on Trujillo who did their own thing

2. He was too much of a fanboy so he didn't want to contribute too much but follow the rest of the band mates lead

Another reason why Jason's bass was cut off was because it drowned out the drums too much and we all know Lars is a massive diva in the studio.

>>126933896 (OP)

the record is a concept album about grief and loss and how cruel the world is. they removed the bass to reflect that.

>>126934042
He did just fine on Doomsday; but you are correct that, from BA, on, he played very unspectacular basslines.

>>126934042
It was a mixture of all this. There's an interview in which James even talks about this exact thing and how he had turn his back on Jason while jamming because he kept looking at what he playing on the guitar instead of doing his own thing. In all honesty Jason was just not a good songwriter either and his shitty side project proved that. Metallica made a bad choice in choosing Jason and had to stick with him because they figured they could work around his flaws and wouldn't be a violent retard like Mustaine

>>126934061
A world without bass is a cruel world? Interesting concept.

>>126933896 (OP)
Upward spread in auditory masking. Lars fucked his ears playing loud gigs without adequate hearing protection and bass makes the music sound worse to him. Harman International found the same effect with elderly listeners while researching their famous preference curve. Bass unavoidably reduces clarity of treble for all listeners and when you're lacking high-frequency hearing you can't afford to lose any clarity.

>>126933896 (OP)
Because of Lars. He specifically pressured the producer to make it sound like that, despite the producer protesting. Why? Well, one of the reasons was that he wanted his drums to sound a certain way and he felt the bass interfered with that, and also because of the well-documented hazing of the new bassist. If he had other reasons, then they are unknown. It of course sounds worse than any of the renditions with more audible bass, but what can you do. It's their record, they want it to sound like shit, it's their decision. It still has great songs on it, despite the fact that they could have sounded better.

>>126933896 (OP)
Both Lars and Het felt guilty and angry about Cliff's death.
They took it out on the new guy. It doesn't matter who it was, they would have done it to any other new band member.

I think the dynamic in the band was kind of similar to Nirvana's. There was this foundational duo that created the initial band and they were friends, so the other knew he couldn't get kicked out.
But anyone else who joined later had to earn his respect and always feel like he has to tread carefully to not get fired.

Tldr, it was inevitable. And they couldn't find someone as unique as Cliff to replace him. Anyone joining in would have to live under the pressure of trying to fill in Cliff's big shadow.

>look at us, we're so prog *repeats every section 4 times*
I bet Lars was pissed when he realized you can still hear the bass guitar during the soft parts of One.
Also, if I were the mixing engineer, I sure as hell wouldn't want my real name anywhere on that record.

after hearing bass enhanced versions i will never go back, finally sounds as good as MoP or better at moments

>>126934032
there's a video on youtube where they interview the mixer (not flemming). tldw: it was 100% lars. james acquiesced to him wanting the bass turned down.

>>126934397
Which enhanced version is best?

Bass is for faggots and niggers, is felt in the hell of the body, the intestines, the stomach.

>>126934460
better to decide for yourself, I got a fanmade one from youtube that I converted into mp3, I'd just listen to different versions and jump around and decide what you like, the one I got is probably "too enhanced" for metallica purists but for me it was like hearing a new album when I could finally hear the bass, more like what it'd sound like to actually hear them before the studio meddling

>>126934513
Ok, so then, which is your favorite?

>>126934143
good explanation. I'd pick this one from a list

>>126933896 (OP)
Because bass doesn't matter in metal

>>126933896 (OP)
Artistic choice to show their first bassist just died (not really but would have perfectly as a pretentious cope for them)

>>126933896 (OP)
It's just root notes who cares

>>126933896 (OP)
bad production

>>126934699
>hold a huge audition for a new bassist
>mute him in the next album
>WE DID IT TO HONOR CLIFF!

When I see Jason I think it would have been cool if he stuck with Flotsam. That first album’s bass is iconic. Also it’s the best album he played on.

>>126934870
He was definitely the consummate thrash bassist. Once Met got soft and turned blues metal, he didn't seem to have much to offer. Flots still had a couple thrash albums in them when he left.

>>126933896 (OP)
Love AJFA production as it is. That record never gets old. In defense of Jason, simple baaslines over root notes is often the best approach anyway. Because as a bassist you wanna do whats best for the song. And not drown the other instruments out with stupid shit.

I had this book as a kid. It had some interesting basslines in it that oftentimes did not 100% just follow the rhythm guitar. But I could never confirm these tabs were correct since you can't even hear the bass on the album. I'm still curious how they transcribed it, like if they somehow got the rights to the master tapes or something? They certainly got the rights to publish the sheet music.

>>126934870
I don't really care for Flotsam and Jetsam, so I can't say I agree. No Place for Disgrace was okay I suppose.

>>126934090
Jason didn’t exactly get to choose what he played a majority of the time, that’s a revisionistic lie and Jaymz is on record saying that he and Lars dictated Jason and Kirk’s playing

>>126933896 (OP)
To prove that nobody gives a shit about bass outside of a handful of losers (bass players). People act like this album sucks, yet it sold more than MOP and the Black album proved it did nothing but gain more fans. If this album was as shitty as people claim (only recently mind you) then the Black album, the very next album, wouldn't have double the sales.

They had a good mix, but Lars ordered it sabotaged for all intense and purposes as a prank on Jason.

Think of it as a very immature, self-sabotaging way to manage PTSD from seeing his buddy get flattened into a pancake. They probably should've just asked Dave Mustaine to come back. Him or James could play bass.

>>126935148
>Love AJFA production as it is
Me too, the hate for it is way overblown
The guitar tone is good, makes up for it honestly

>>126937538
The production is so fucking dry I had to pour water on my headphones rendering them useless.

Anyone else not have an issue with the bass parts? you can literally still hear him unless you're playing the album on your phone. It's obvious that the album was more guitar focused which made considering Jason Newsted didn't do anything technically impressive on the album aside from matching in rhythm with the other guitars

>>126937578
>I got filtered so hard I needed to ruin my headphones
maybe you should've just watered your ears

>>126933896 (OP)
bunchive a-hoes

>>126937859
Bodybuilders are actually known to listen to that album before competitions, because of its dehydrating effect, making for more visible gains.

bass is pointless for metal music anyway. just turn up the lows on guitar and you're 95% of the way there

>>126933896 (OP)
they just didnt think the bass was important, simple as that. and once cliffster was gone they could just remove it

>>126937621

He wrote the riff to Blackened. There's a track of him playing it on the extended version of the album, would have sounded cool as a bass-led track.

>>126937621
>you can literally still hear him
No you can't. Even when you play the isolated bass track, its barely audible. Forget about hearing it in the full mix. Must be some auditory hallucination.

>>126938480
t. earlet

>>126933896 (OP)
>pick
It was not the best start.

Jason Newsted was a shitty uninspired bassist who only played root notes. It's not hard to figure out why the rest of the band bullied him when Cliff was writing Bach inspired bass riffs

>>126940682
why'd they hire him then?

>>126935148
>>126937538
This
>>126937578
The drum sound is dry and I like it. It's really some of Lars' best drumming, he probably peaked there.

>>126940748
They were basically all traumatized by Mustaine so they hired the biggest pussy they could find kek

>>126940752
>The drum sound is dry and I like it. It's really some of Lars' best drumming, he probably peaked there.
It's definitely his most technical drumming. It also was also quite influential, e.g. on legendary drummers like George Kollias from Nile. But to be fair, those drums had to be touched up A LOT by the producers, because Lars wasn't doing a very good job, which resulted in the original tapes being a stitched-together Frankenstein mess. Allegedly.

>>126940748
>>126940783
You look at a picture of these guys back then and it totally makes sense. You've got baby faced whiny voiced lars, insecure immature James with crop top shirts and fingerless gloves anda choker, looking like your friends shy little sister, and then Mustaine is just this confident aggressive dude with a lions share of the talent. He no doubt threatened the other two and would have blown up the entire operation had he not been booted.

>>126940811
>which resulted in the original tapes being a stitched-together Frankenstein mess
I could see that. My initial read of the album was that it felt choppy, lacked flow. I wonder how much of that could be due to, well, that.

>megashart simp shits up ANOTHER metallica thread

>>126933896 (OP)
this is the real and most logical reason: they didn't want fans making comparisons between the legendary bass player that died and the new guy. can't make comparisons if you can't even hear it. Dream Theater did the same thing

>>126933896 (OP)
Because he left the fucking band
Period.
Exclamation point!!!

>>126940832
Mustaine had a ton of raw energy for the performances and demon tapes. He honestly lost that after forming Megadeth

>>126941968
You're giving Lars too much credit