Rautavaara edition
https://youtu.be/cQIOms620M4

This thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.

>How do I get into classical?
This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:
https://pastebin.com/NBEp2VFeh

Previous: >>127013981

>>127032529 (OP)
>This page is no longer available. It has either expired, been removed by its creator, or removed by one of the Pastebin staff.

>>127032542

the link is dead, this is the old /classical/

>General Folder #1. Renaissance up to 20th century/modern classical. Also contains a folder of live recordings/recitals by some outstanding performers.
https://mega.co.nz/#F!mMYGhBgY!Ee_a6DJvLJRGej-9GBqi0A
>General Folder #2. Mostly 20th century/modern with other assorted bits and pieces
https://mega.co.nz/#F!Y8pXlJ7L!RzSeyGemu6QdvYzlfKs67w
>General Folder #3. Renaissance up to early/mid-20th century. Also contains a folder of Scarlatti sonate and another live recording/recital folder.
https://mega.co.nz/#F!kMpkFSzL!diCUavpSn9B-pr-MfKnKdA
>General Folder #4. Renaissance up to late 19th century
https://mega.co.nz/#F!ekBFiCLD!spgz8Ij5G0SRH2JjXpnjLg
>General Folder #5. Very eclectic mix
https://mega.co.nz/#F!O8pj1ZiL!mAfQOneAAMlDlrgkqvzfEg
>General Folder #6. Yellow Piss stuff. Also there's some other stuff in here.
https://mega.nz/#F!DlRSjQaS!SzxR-CUyK4AYPknI1LYgdg
>Renaissance Folder #1. Mass settings
https://mega.co.nz/#F!ygImCRjS!1C9L77tCcZGQRF6UVXa-dA
>Renaissance Folder #2. Motets and madrigals (plus Leiden choirbooks)
https://mega.co.nz/#F!il5yBShJ!WPT0v8GwCAFdOaTYOLDA1g
>Debussy Folder (soon to be Sibelius folder)
https://mega.co.nz/#F!DdJWUBBK!BeGdGaiAqdLy9SBZjCHjCw
>Opera Folder. Contains recorded video productions of about 10 well-known operas, with a bias towards late Romantic
https://mega.co.nz/#F!4EVlnJrB!PRjPFC0vB2UT1vrBHAlHlw
>Book Folder #1. Random assortment of books on music theory and composition, music history etc.
https://mega.nz/#F!HsAVXT5C!AoFKwCXr4PJnrNg5KzDJjw
>Book Folder #2. Comprehensive list of the most important harpsichord and piano pieces through history
https://mega.nz/#F!1xJgVSLA!i2eLakjehx5DY8qYUzS0Zg

some links working some don't

>>127032542
Here's a rentry with the links posted a couple of threads ago. Don't know if there was anything else there. Next time I make an OP I'll replace the link.
https://rentry.org/classicalgen

>>127032579
>>127032596
thank you

putting on Ashkenazy's 7-and-a-half hour long Schumann set and letting it play through on this sweltering Sunday afternoon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oS2R7HMwYM&list=OLAK5uy_nIEgLe2Q2JioW0DbUkzEQrG9a7RQ_j30E&index=1

Bach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5jVmWCf2Oo

There are some violin tones that sound annoying and abrasive to my ears. Rarer, the piano too sometimes when it's too tinny. The cello, however, never sounds bad.

>Top 10 most insane musical crash-outs

#1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nietzsche_contra_Wagner

>Nietzsche's objections to Wagner's music are physiological—as he listens to Wagner’s music his whole body feels discomfort: He does not breathe easily, his feet begin to rebel, as they do not find a desire to dance or march being satisfied. Wagner is seen as an actor, an “enthusiastic mimomaniac”, and his music is merely an opportunity for poses. Nietzsche suggests Wagner needs to be more honest with himself.

>Nietzsche criticizes Wagner’s idea of "endless melody", which is an idea based on Wagner’s criticism of operas in which the melody exists especially in arias, and the arias are separated by less melodic filler. Wagner’s idea is that an entire opera should be instead a continuous or "endless" melody. Nietzsche's concern is that an opera that is all one "endless melody" has the effect similar to a person walking into the ocean, losing one’s footing, then surrendering to the elements, and being forced to tread water. The danger to music is "degeneration of rhythmic feeling" which would be unaccommodating to the element of dance in performance, and the supplanting of rhythm with chaos, which would result in an emphasis on mere "effect" — on posing.

>Nietzsche then suggests that Wagner feels that all music, to be effective, "must shake the listener to his very intestines," and that such effects are for idiots and the masses.

>>127032868
He is correct that Wagner is much more a modernist and psychologist than a mythic or heroic artist, and only conceals this behind his subjects. Closer to Baudelaire or Proust than Homer.

>>127032886
>>127032886
I think the more substantive point to make here is that the movement away from strict, homogenous metrical structures (which is really what Nietzsche's gripe is in concrete terms) is simply the natural trend in the development of classical composition, of which Wagner is the culmination.
The earliest (non-sacred) instrumental classical music was dance forms (outside generic/technical stuff like toccatas and fantasias which were common to both sacred and secular contexts).
The explicit connection with dance forms and their canonical treatment was gradually lost with the replacement of dance suites with multi-movement sonatas in the late baroque/early galant period, which cast off precise restrictions on phrase length and other customary requirements associated with specific dances, and erased formal differences in their character and structure in favor of more generic parameters like tempo and time signature.
As composers continued to explore new rhythmic and harmonic possibilities within traditional forms, strict dance-like metres with unbroken sequences of strong and weak beats began to feel stiff, stale and overly constrained, and were also gradually dissolved, until you get long, tide-like, swelling melodic phrases like in Wagner, with metre manifesting on a meta/macro scale beyond the system of organisation by bars.

Perhaps there was also a parallel process in Western sacred music, but with harmonic and melodic devices instead, as the distinction between secular and sacred forms also slowly disappeared.

I don't think it's anything to do with Wagner's personal philosophy or world-view, you see the same with Brahms/Mahler/etc, it's just Wagner stretched it further than anyone else.

>>127032868
>Nietzsche is himself guilty of every accusation that he bitterly throws at Wagner. He himself is the aphorist, who is unable or doesn't want to create something grand and coherent. He himself is the man of nuance, the relation, the finest and most fleeting associations, the rarest, delayed, most deep-seated sensations. And what concerns the will to effects - well, he really doesn't fall behind Wagnerians in this regard. His style proves this no less than his success which - to use his own words - tells against him as it tells against Wagner. Both are typical decadents but there's a difference. Wagner is, as it were, naive, believes in himself, doesn't know that he is decadent. But Nietzsche is more sincerely and truthfully - as he believes - conscious of it. Now a fact isn't overcome simply via diagnosis. I will not become healthier by knowing that I am sick. But this knowledge brings with it one thing: it makes me face myself differently. That's why it's so typical of the decadent that he cannot stand himself. Today that's all too often the reason for the preference of many people for ancient art from finished epochs - in music e.g. for the art of Mozart and Bach. You flee into the distance because you can't bear closeness; above all, you want to forget yourself and everything related to it, forget it as thoroughly as possible, just so as not to have to meet yourself. Where Nietzsche rages against Wagner, he rages against himself.

>>127033584
>Nietzsche has great art at hand when it comes to using it as a foil, as a contrast, because in and of itself his relationship to the great composers was rather loose. Certainly he was musical, as they say. He even composed. But he made little use of the "Great Ones" of music for himself. In his garrulous manner he by no means left us in the dark about this. He speaks of Bach and Beethoven without any sympathy or understanding. For him, Beethoven is a representative of the 18th century, and the best thing about him is his ability to "find the notes of late bliss in faded love". (I wonder which works by Beethoven he might have had in mind with this strange definition.) No, Nietzsche certainly didn't care much about the organic and architectonic in music. What affected him about the music was the color, the perfume, the nuance, the sensuality, everything that was morbid, fleeting, seductive. Significantly, he once said that for Chopin he would "like to give all the rest of the music". Of course for that, which was unique about Chopin - the perfume - not what connected him to the other great musicians. As a musician, Nietzsche remained in his later days what he was from the start: "Wagnerian". How could he not? With regard to the basic attitude to an art - something that belongs entirely to the subconscious of our nature - one cannot change in the course of life despite all other developments.

>>127033312
>simply the natural trend in the development of classical composition, of which Wagner is the culmination.
This is just a Wagnerism.

>>127032868
I would say the biggest crash out was Rott.

>Rott had begun his musical studies with the tentative support of his father in 1874. His organ teacher was the great Austrian symphonist Anton Bruckner, whose work, while rooted in the formal traditions of Beethoven and Schubert, was inflected with Wagnerian harmony and orchestration. Bruckner thought very highly of his student and later proclaimed to a group of fellow teachers who had been deriding a Rott composition: “You will hear great things yet of this man!” It wasn’t Rott the world would hear of, however, but two of his fellow students: Hugo Wolf and Gustav Mahler.

>For the final year of his studies in 1878, Rott submitted the first movement of his Symphony in E major to a composition contest. The jury, except for Bruckner, was very derisive about the work. After completing the Symphony in 1880, Rott showed the work to both Brahms and Hans Richter, in order to get it played. His efforts failed. Brahms did not like the fact that Bruckner exerted great influence on the Conservatory students, and even told Rott that he had no talent whatsoever and that he should give up music.

>Rott began to evidence persecutory delusions. In October 1880, while on a train journey, he reportedly threatened another passenger with a revolver, claiming that Brahms had filled the train with dynamite. Rott was committed to a mental hospital in 1881, where despite a brief recovery he sank into depression. By the end of 1883 a diagnosis recorded "hallucinatory insanity, persecution mania—recovery no longer to be expected." He died of tuberculosis in 1884, aged 25.

>>127032868
Nietzsche ‘crashed out’ (mental breakdown) over a horse.

>>127032868
>must shake the listener to his very intestines
>intestines
There it is. The intestines are a sense organ for the Germanic peoples.

>>127034039
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTwYSQOhsKc

>>127032529 (OP)
Did Tartini have any other songs than trill sonata?

How close is folk music related to classical music? Aren't polkas a bit folksy?

Tchaikovsky's Fifth
Russian State Symphony Orchestra
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pmdlgKalyQ

Not only are Brahms' two piano concertos both the peak of the form, but the same is true for his two cello sonatas.

>Let's try this form -- alright, perfected. One more time to show it's not a fluke. Alright let's move on.

How did he do it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n4rdBwAAwU
Tchaikovsky: 1812 Overture, Op. 49 - Evgeny Svetlanov, Russian State Symphony Orchestra

>>127032617
With Schumann is Op. 1-26, and Op. 82 plus the Piano Quintet and Quartet and some Lieder, everything else is trash.

>>127032529 (OP)
>Rautavaara edition
I swear I remember an etude or some other solo piano piece by him that had pretty large chords that were specifically indicated to be played solid and not rolled/broken, but I skimmed through his etudes recently and didn't see it.
Does anyone know what piece that could be? I was discouraged at first sight and just brushed it off because I couldn't reach the chords, but now I'm curious to know what those chords were again.

>>127035661
Yes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMFWuGd7vSo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J58qf_pyx64

>>127035699
For it to be the peak of the form he'd actually have to be a great melodist.

>>127035939
Good thing he is.

>>127035943
Unfortunately to anyone with ears he's not.

>>127035948
Bizarre delusion. Most of the money he made off published works was from writing singable tunes. Not just a good melodist but one of the best.

>>127035884
You don't even like the Piano Concerto? That piece helped get me into classical. The Lupu recording paired with the Grieg Piano Concerto. Good times.

>>127035970
>brahms
>singable tunes

>>127036293
The 5th Hungarian Rhapsody is literally one of the most widely recognized tunes in classical, what're you even on about

Bach was a machine for turning beer into counterpoint
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=77MI9NBKxmM&si=yhMCeEHqJaQcT3vM

>>127036331
Yeah I'm sure people were really singing the main tune to the 5th Hungarian Rhapsody, kek.

>>127036411
They sing the main theme to the second symphony.

>>127036331
>>127036411
The Hungarian Rhapsody was Franz Liszt's work retards.
Absolute state of /classic/.
What you mean is the Hungarian Dances.

>>127036662
>second symphony
Too bland for me to remember a single theme from it.

>>127036293
He wrote the world's most recognised lullaby so yes.

>>127036851
sorry to embarrass you in front of all your friends but
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i711UOcCEf8&list=OLAK5uy_lByhyVivOcxDZfhv6p6fJoJwFzvqNglIU&index=9

>>127036855
>>127036863
You don't see the irony in resorting to a lullaby for the example of a singable tune composed by Brahms?

>>127036901
No, because unlike the lame and formulaic joke you imply, the melody of a successful lullaby does actually has to be memorable, especially released into a context where people would pass it on orally and sing it themselves rather than relying on recordings. This is of course also putting aside the popular songs he wrote in his lifetime like the Liebeslieder waltzes, or other examples of his successful penetration into mass culture like the third movement of the 3rd symphony that has been used in film for its yearning, romantic quality. The lullaby is simply the best example of a tune so thoroughly embedded in culture that many people don't even know that it was written by Brahms and would likely assume that it's from a folk song. Rated on the number of pop cultural 'hits' like that, Brahms is as reliable as any composer outside of Bach, Beethoven, Mozart.

>>127036961
The lullaby is the only one man, and it's just about the simplest type of melody a composer could create, so it's really not saying much. And normies don't know a single melody from any of his symphonies, you're just coping with that one.

>>127036991
Thanks for the fanfiction.

>>127037005
I can feel the seethe exhaling from your post, all just because I said that melody wasn't Brahms strong suit.

>>127035699
>Not only are Rachmaninoff's four piano concertos both the peak of the form, but the same is true for his two cello sonatas.
Rach has a second cello sonata I haven't heard of? Noice
>>127037279
>melody wasn't Brahms strong suit.
Well
Clearly not. When Brahms was feeling like it, he could write an entire piece full of memorable melodies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2uagoorsKw
Melody was his strong suit, he just wasn't the top S tier melodist

Best recording of Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg?

>>127037546
Standard answers are Kubelik, Karajan or Sawallisch. Choose whichever sounds best to you.

https://youtu.be/Hdvw-ljjTI8?list=RDHdvw-ljjTI8&t=23
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsaetVVLhCk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQOqelBSXjQ

>>127037546
>>127037683
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooL1PHp6R04

>>127032808
What are the best Baroque cello suites not composed by Bach?

>>127037928
There is little evidence that Bach wrote the Cello suites.

It took two centuries for the Cello suites to take the Yo-Yo-Ma form:
https://www.cpr.org/2018/07/25/the-story-behind-the-bach-cello-suites-and-why-we-still-love-them-today/

>>127038248
KOEK! Bach was wat je maar wilde dat hij zou zijn, schat.

>>127037928
No one played the cello in the 18th century, you twit

Cheerly to sea. The signs of war gather. No thread of /classical/ be not also an edition of Wagner.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jd63y1xbkUc

>>127038248
We're all familiar with the Casals story, just as much as we are with the Mendelssohn/St Matthew Passion revival. In any case, thanks for sharing.

>>127038447
You fell for it again.
Germans never stopped playing Bach in Lutheran churches; Mendelssohn didn’t rediscover him.

>>127038506
:O
I've been had?

>>127038534
Again, Ja

>>127038534
Ja Ja Ja
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSJ6uOR567Y

>>127038557
>>127038564
Well, I'm fine with believing in apocrypha, the story for tourists, in this case.

>>127038578
So you believe that we owe Bach’s music to a Jew? You think that before Mr. Mendelssohn came upon some dusty manuscripts, no living German had heard Bach?

>>127038564
Blondines zijn aardiger! Cookie

>>127038606
He claimed the Hebrides too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcogD-hHEYs

>>127038606
Whichever is the better, more compelling story to tell at parties.

>>127038681
How about the Truth, you lickspittel?

>>127038705
There is no truth, only interpretation. Especially in matters of history.

>>127038723
Oy vey.

>>127038770
I was quoting Nietzsche.

>>127038778
So you tried to pass someone else’s work off as your own like Mendelssohn…

>>127038778
Adorno read Nietzsche too, Unc

>>127038806
What makes the symmetry so sweet is Nietzsche's works are mostly known to the English-reading public through the efforts and translations of Walter Kaufmann. Bach:Mendelssohn::Nietzsche:Kaufmann.

>>127038820
I'm aware.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj2jAMnq6cg
Brahms can be very hummable when he wants to be, I think he just wasn't interesting in that when it come to most of his serious music, but even then there's exceptions
His String Quintet 2 has easily one of the best themes in any chamber music piece, period
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VhA_hrVQBI

>>127038674
De Joden hebben de Hebriden ingenomen. We moeten een vloot sturen om ze te heroveren.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5fdtNTnTpE

>>127038606
No. "Bach revival" would've happened nonetheless, he was one of the most prolific composers of the baroque era, worshipped by Haydn, Beethoven, Chopin, Wagner - so both before and after Mendelssohn. Bringing it to the public was a matter of time, and Mendelssohn simply was first to do it, according to historians at least (who you should always doubt, but still). Mendelssohn didn't do anything special, that's all. Except for his lovely violin concerto in E minor, few symphonies and some chamber music, that is.

>>127038990
Mendelssohn did save the organ works (in particular Toccata and Fugue in D minor) from obscurity, thoughbeit.

>>127039240
So nothing important, gotcha.

>>127035699
Easier to perfect a form when it's already been refined over a quarter of a millennium.

>>127039253
>nothing importamt
unalive thyself, friend
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hf5a3v0Kpk4

>>127038307
Not the violoncello da gamba perhaps, but Bach does indicate "violoncello" in his scores.

>>127039324
>his score
There is no autographed copy.

>>127038506
Composers continued studying and teaching Bach from his death up until Mendelssohn and beyond, the point is, afaik, that Mendelssohn promoted him to the broader public beyond the pedagogic and liturgical scope.

>>127039240
Which ironically is unlikely to be Bach's

>>127039330
I said "scores". Of other compositions. Like cantatas and arias.

>>127039353
You win this round

>>127039287
>in particular Toccata and Fugue in D minor
>important
Hahahahahahah

>>127038606
Mendelssohn was a Christian

>>127039514
He was ethnically jewish.

>>127039627
He was baptized and uncircumcised so he was Christian. His parents also converted to Christianity.

>. . . and that leads me to ramble on to another problem which is much discussed both here and in Europe: this is the question of the versions of the Bruckner Symphonies. It is incontestable that the Ninth Symphony by Bruckner first came to us in a version which was very different from the one Bruckner himself composed, and yet I am heretic enough to say I don't think every correction Ferdinand Loewe makes - and I happened to know Ferdinand Loewe quite well; he was a very good musician - I don't happen to think that all his corrections are very wrong. He went much too far, according to present day thinking and standards, in trying to help the composer, but in many of the other symphonies a great deal of mischief is being wrought by the musicologists (who unfortunately are not musicians), and I am quite sure I'll cause a great deal of enmity in these statements [with a laugh], but I can't help it. It is too obvious, and I can say only that I have on my side all those musicologists who are at the same time musicians, or shall we say the musicians who are musicologically educated. For instance, take the case of the Bruckner Third. We know exactly what Bruckner's last will was, if we can put it this way, as far as his Third Symphony is concerned. This is the version with which we have grown up, and if I say 'we', I mean my generation and those of my generation who grew up where I did, in Vienna, among and surrounded by the people, by the musicians who were very close to Bruckner - a whole lot closer than the young gentlemen who, both in England and in America, pretend to know so much about it and were born thirty and forty years later and actually have no idea what they are talking about! To forbid a composer self-correction, to forbid a composer to have second thoughts, and to forbid a composer to accept well-meant and justified advice, consciously and without pressure, is simply preposterous.

>In my time in Vienna - that is, at the beginning of the century where I grew up before the first World War (doesn't this make me sound terribly old?) - it would never have occurred to any sane-minded person to mention Bruckner and Mahler in the same breath. People associate them for superficial reasons. They both came from the territory of the old Austro-Hungarian empire, they both wrote long symphonies, they both wrote nine symphonies, and both names end on 'er' - maybe that has something to do with it - but they couldn't be more dissimilar. A phenomenon like Bruckner, whom we really can consider only as the innocent receptacle of divine grace and not equipped with very much or very high intelligence - was actually a very primitive, peasant-like person. One most beautiful story is that when he received a decoration from the old Emperor Francis Joseph of Austria and was received in audience too thank for it, very affably, the Emperor asked him whether there was anything he could do for him. So Bruckner naively said: "Yes, if your Majesty could do something about Hanslick, that he doesn't pan me all the time". Hanslick at that time being the most powerful music critic of the town and of the time. And, on the other hand, Gustav Mahler was exactly the opposite - a highly sophisticated intellectual - they couldn't be more dissimilar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc3CxN6RELg&t=1s

>>127039695
>ne most beautiful story is that when he received a decoration from the old Emperor Francis Joseph of Austria and was received in audience too thank for it, very affably, the Emperor asked him whether there was anything he could do for him. So Bruckner naively said: "Yes, if your Majesty could do something about Hanslick, that he doesn't pan me all the time". Hanslick at that time being the most powerful music critic of the town and of the time.
Bruckner a cute!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Mendelssohn_Bartholdy
> Abraham took an uncompromising attitude towards his Jewish origins. He felt that the day of Judaism was over and that it was necessary to take practical steps to assimilate with German society. To this end he and Lea took the (then) daring decision not to have their sons Felix and Paul circumcised after their births in 1809 and 1812 respectively, although this led to arguments with Lea's mother
> Abraham's children were brought up at first without any religious education; they were baptised in 1816, and Abraham and Lea were baptised on 4 October 1822 in Frankfurt am Main in the Calvinist French Reformed Church, that is, well away from their friends and relatives in Berlin. Their son Felix later married the daughter of the former minister of that church.
Mendelssohn’s father was a chud!

>>127039669
Totall irrelevant to the fact that Mendelssohn was ethnically jewish.

>>127039683
>It is incontestable that the Ninth Symphony by Bruckner first came to us in a version which was very different from the one Bruckner himself composed, and yet I am heretic enough to say I don't think every correction Ferdinand Loewe makes - and I happened to know Ferdinand Loewe quite well; he was a very good musician - I don't happen to think that all his corrections are very wrong.
I assume he's referring to Loewe's backup/replacement of the pizzicati passages for the violins/cellos during the beginning of the 2nd movement with solo flute and bassoon. I'm not so sure, it doesn't really sound like Bruckner to me. And his removal of the wind chords is complete garbage.

Loewe's biggest transgression comes in the Adagio, though, during the climax. Loewe smoothed over Bruckner's harmony to a ridiculous degree, making the dissonant and powerful climax far more limp than in the original.

>>127039795
No such thing. Judaism is a religion.

>>127039795
The baptism washed away his sins, so he cased to be Jewish. KEK

>>127039754
100% CHUD phenotype

>>127039795
>>127039795
The baptism washed away his sins, so he ceased to be Jewish. KEK

>>127039754
100% CHUD phenotype

>>127039813
Fell for it again award

>>127039813
Not by any definition, not by any biological, genetic or cultural metric, no. Jew implies both ethnicity and religion and Mendelssohn was jewish:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/jew
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews
>>127039849
>his sins,
Not sure what this has to do with /classical/ maybe try >>>/pol/?

>>127039868
Not sure what this has to do with /classical/ maybe try >>>/pol/ instead?

>>127039886
He accepted Jesus as his savior. He was Christian.

99% of /classical/ is just complaining about or talking about Jews

>>127039901
Not sure what this has to do with /classical/ maybe try >>>/pol/ instead?

>>127039911
We are talking about Mendelssohn, a classical composer (who happened to be a Christian), sister.

>>127039923
not sure what this has to do with /classical/ maybe try >>>/pol/ instead?

>>127039754
>To this end he and Lea took the (then) daring decision not to have their sons Felix and Paul circumcised

This explains why Mendelssohn's music is devoid of the typical Jewish neuroticism associated with lingering deep-seated infant trauma. Also explains its absence in the work of Jewish women composers (e.g. Alma Deutscher), since women aren't circumcised in Judaism.

I think i broke sis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIvWjI4PrJw

>>127039923
Mendelssohn was an ethnic Jew, who just happened to be involved with a slightly different desert mythology than usual. And mythology is not part of music discussion as per board rule 1

>>127039801
I think in general Szell was being retarded here, as much as I like him. Especially the last point, I don't think that Bruckner was any less intellectual than Mahler. His symphonies show as such, symphonies like his 5th showcase a huge amount of introspection and thought. Just because he wasn't as philosophically inclined doesn't mean he was retarded and just received his musical skill from God, God was his inspiration. The final story he gave is more likely just a result of social autism rather than a lack of intellect.

As far as them being mentioned in the same breath often. Mahler and Bruckner had plenty of interactions and Bruckner was a prominent inspiration for Mahler, not to mention their symphonies being very comparable in scale. Of course they'd be mentioned together in some capacity. I don't think the two are comparable, but I see no issue with linking them together. Especially because those that like Bruckner are 90% of the time also going to like Mahler too.

>>127039974
It’s essential to have a basic understanding of Christianity to appreciate the works of Christian composers like Mendelssohn. Almost all the great classical composers were Christians, and their works won’t truly click unless you are acquainted with Christianity.

>>127037279
Thanks for the fanfiction.

>>127040043
not sure what this has to do with /classical/ maybe try >>>/pol/ instead?

>>127040043
That's a literal non sequitur. And it is factually incorrect.

>>127040051
/pol/ is pretty anti-Christian. Ironically, you might fit in better there.

>>127040060
not sure what this has to do with /classical/ maybe try >>>/pol/ instead?

Reminder that Bach, Brahms and probably Beethoven too, were all atheist

>>127040142
Bach was a devout Lutheran.

Bach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIEyIqd2vNM

>>127040154
Strange speculation, I disagree.

>>127040142
>Beethoven was atheit
Then he wouldn't have made music for Schiller's Ode an die Freude
>Tochter aus Elysium
>Und der Cherub steht vor Gott
>überm Sternenzelt muß ein lieber Vater wohnen
usw.

>>127040375
Why? What prevents atheist from writing about god?
Nothing.

>>127040622
Then let me ask back, on what basis is your claim standing?
>propbably
based on?
You're correct that just because he incorporates God into his works he doesn't have to be religious.
But still, I would say it's more probable than in a scenario where he doesn't mention him at all.
So why do you think he was probably an atheist, please elaborate.

How to pronounce Beethoven? With f or v? I've heard both even from Germans.

>>127040687
Non sequitur, I am not obliged to answer that question, but I'll defend my position anyway
>The content of his music is most intriguing, oftentimes reflecting views of several different religions. His own religious views could never be determined. He distrusted priests and wrote about paganism in several of his works. He became increasingly devoted to Pantheism and was noted to have been a man searching for God. Rumors surround the events around his deathbed, his actual death being in 1827 at the age of 57, although he did allow a priest to administer his last rites.
I omitted the unconfirmed claims such as Haydn calling Beethoven an atheist, so everything above is true and rest is up to interpretation.

Atheisthooven seems like the usual 19th century genius (they were all atheist to some degree) to me. The proof lies in his intelligence and achievements as well. I have repeatedly stated that atheism positivey correlates to g, ergo most geniuses were atheist or atheist offshoot. Christianity is irrational, so even if Atheisthooven wasn't by-definition atheist, he wasn't a christian either.

>>127041682
thank you indian child

>>127041682
>I have repeatedly stated that atheism positivey correlates to g, ergo most geniuses were atheist or atheist offshoot. Christianity is irrational, so even if Atheisthooven wasn't by-definition atheist, he wasn't a christian either.
This isn't reddit, any person with even a slight level of historical knowledge knows this statement is total bullshit

>>127041820
>Christianity
Listen. This is /classical/, not "plebbit". We only discuss patrician atheist genius music here. You are on the wrong bus stop, but instead of being a civil individual and leaving, you are instead creating a "ruckus" for the other waiting passengers. https://youtu.be/WQXxJLsA92A Bach showed us the dangers of being a "christian" man, not with long essays and tedious literature, but with elegant sound and smooth counterpoint. You are a low intelligence "Theist" trying to seduce us poor souls into degeneracy.

https://www.youtube.com/@TheJollyHeretic

What are some of your favorite pieces that are also very sad or melancholic?
I feel quite sad and tired lately.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYSXQArWnCk&list=RDcYSXQArWnCk&start_radio=1

>>127041878
thank you indian child

>>127041878
What a retard. No great genius has ever been an atheist. Creation is a divine act that can only come from the deepest and most powerful desire of trascendence, which requieres man to believe in something greater than his own self

>>127041991
This is true, the intentional act of creation itself (as conceptually distinct from simply evolution, transformation or amalgamation) presupposes an archetypal model of a creator.
A composer that is an atheist in mind is still at least a deist in spirit.
At least, as long as composition is treated as something more than just performing an algorithm over a pre-existing set of elements.

>>127041797
Thanks schizo
>>127041820
>This isn't reddit,
Exactly, it's why you should fuck off.
>any person with even a slight level of historical knowledge knows this statement is total bullshit
So you're illiterate as well. There is undeniable empirical evidence for the positive correlation, and historical sources which inform us about religious views of academics. Cope.

>>127041991
This is appeal to emotion and not an argument. There's no need to pretend. There is great art, produced by geniuses who are characterized by extraordinarily high intelligence and very specific personality traits (such as conscientiousness, which typically is in positive correlation with general intelligence, but is low in geniuses) necessary to revolutionize and make exceptional art. Most composers were atheists. But atheism was frowned upon in 17th century and pretty much throughout the entire history, so those who expressed atheistic views were either either ignored or executed. In short, you had to keep your mouth shut and pretend you were part of the herd. Furthermore, I'd also argue and die on the hill that Democritus, Leucippus and even Epicurus were all atheist. Protagoras was technically agnostic (like Epicurus, in some sense), but that can be translated to "atheist but not informed enough". Furthermore, atheism existed in Ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia. These topics can be explored and studied in Edward Dutton's books. I gave you the redpill, you're giving me the same cliche every pop slop faggot does. You have a poor understanding of how IQ tests actually work. IQ tests correlate with Spearman's g factor. It measures the g factor, although it is not a perfect measurer of it. And g factor is the best measurer of general intelligence we have. In fact, g factor itself uses musical abilities among other cognitive abilities to measure intelligence, and although it is not as strongly correlated to intelligence as maths, there is a considerable correlation. Actually, quick glance at Dutton's book and I found a source showing correlation between general intelligence and musical preference, that should really end the argument right here. I really don't care, not reading your pseudo historical slop further as it's making me nauseous. March onwards to psych ward you useless shit stain. Go argue with ChatGPT, it's more in line with your takes.

>>127041898
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k6a1S8FXOs

>>127042191
thank you indian child

>>127032579
Lmao, the book list is only the 33 1/3 book about In the Aeroplane Over the Sea. I wonder what the other books were

>>127042191
>So you're illiterate as well. There is undeniable empirical evidence for the positive correlation, and historical sources which inform us about religious views of academics. Cope.
I get why sisterposter calls you indian now

>>127042226
>>127042266
thank you schizos

>>127042280
Thank you indian child

>>127042280
thank you indian child

>>127042207
Okay you're saying that the abrahamic Bible is wrong, and so do I. But atheism is still a beliefe, a religion, one that does not acknowledge any influence out of the scope of the laws of physics previously researched and written down by scientists. True, there is some collection of patterns we experienced and noted down over the past few centuries, but what guarantees that we know it all and that these are forever absolute? Well, nothing. It turns out we don't know shit, and this fact is acknowledged by all physicists. If you don't have an answer to everything and know the story why are we here and what is our goal from beginning to end then you don't know shit. So you decide to believe that things are like this and that and there is not higher being with influence to all humans, but it is just as arbitrary as the abrahamic bible. One is not more logical than the other, so please stop pretending the opposite. As stated throughoutly the flow of this conversation, go back to plebbit, maybe your retarded opinion will be less frowned upon there than on this relatively high IQ board.

>>127042287
thank you schizo

>>127042293
thank you schizo

>>127042314
thank you indian child

>>127042318
thank you schizo

>>127042323
thank you indian child

>>127042325
thank you schizo

>>127042332
thank you indian child

>>127042335
thank you schizo

>>127042345
thank you indian child

Why are you flooding the thread with spam?
If you hate the general, you can always leave

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq3KYTh4EPk

>>127042347
thank you schizo

>>127042354
thank you indian child

>>127042357
thank you schizo

>>127042362
thank you indian chid

>>127042363
thank you schizo

>>127042368
thank you indian child

>>127042371
thank you schizo

>>127042376
thank you indian child

>>127042377
thank you schizo

>"Gee, wonder what's going on in /classical/
>More fedoratippers vs people absolutely horrid at apologetics
I sometimes forget that this general is about music and not a off-topic /his/ thread about religion. Please take that shit there.

Either way, was curious about something: Is there any particular reason as to why, at least in the english speaking space our view of classical music is as germano-centric as it is? Not to give any shade to the big German composers, I hold them all quite dear. But I was curious why the big names tend to be associated with Austria and Germany when arguably Italy and France provided more contributions in the Renaissance and Baroque period. I know we do hold plenty of those composers to high regard, but they're nowhere near as talked about as Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Brahms Wagner, Haydn, etc

>>127042384
thank you indian child

>>127042388
thank you schizo

>>127042395
thank you indian child

>>127042407
thank you schizo

>>127042433
thank you indian child

>>127042387
Culturally we peaked at around late classical/early romantic era. The answers lie here:
https://desuarchive.org/mu/thread/126762916/#126769212

>>127042443
thank you schizo

>>127042387
Because the Viennese school is what developed the classical forms which became familiar in the nineteenth century and brought the Western musical idea of an abstract musical drama in which ideas progress and develop through key areas to its peak. This coincided with the industrial revolution and rise of German nationalism with its emphasis on music as a uniting force of culture, which led to greater popular and academic interest in music and the development of musicology and a classical canon in the German realms.

>>127042460
>>127042464
thank you indian child

>>127042484
thank you schizo

>>127042509
thank you indian child

>>127042476
This is also true, to some degree. But why exactly did the classical forms become the norm? And why hasn't anybody developed them before? Why were the great composers so heavily concentrated in one or two places? I think that doesn't answer the core of his question

>>127042512
thank you schizo

I can’t be the only one who thinks both Brahms Violin Concerto and Double Cello Violin Concerto are of much lower quality than other major works such as Beethoven Violin Concerto, Bach Double Violin Concerto, etc.
Tchaikovsky was right, Brahms was overrated.

>>127042523
It does in fact answer the musical question, which is the important one. In most human cultures, music is seen as mood-setting or liturgical, used for dance, ceremony, etc. rather than expressive in its own right, and this is why it was a unique development of Western culture and Austro-German music in particular to write instrumental music in dramatic forms. This is by no means the default attitude, even in Europe. For example, we don't even have all of Bach's cantatas because they were often tossed out after service. 'Highbrow music' in most cultures, even very developed examples like Indian music, means improvisation on relatively static modal structures to evoke mood. This is also why newcomers often find classical difficult and 'unstable' to listen to, frustrated that the music keeps changing, modulating, switching between major and minor modes etc. This is a development that occurred predominantly in the German realms, and that's why we talk about them more than the others.

>>127042524
thank you indian child

>>127042534
Brahms' violin concerto is gold standard on par with Tchaikovsky's and Mendelssohn's so I can't agree. I'd never call it low quality, that's absurd. Beethoven's I feel is a tier below, but I actually need to listen to Beethoven's once more before judging, haven't done so in a long time. Post a recording if you have it mind

>>127042590
thank you schizo

>>127042610
thank you indian child

>>127042387
>Autist hyper-focused on posting images of a (fictional) girl unprompted thinks his opinion is worth ANYTHING to ANYONE
many such cases

>>127042616
thank you schizo

>>127042634
thank you indian child

>>127042632
Mahoanon is one of the most consistently decent posters here actually.

>>127042647
>hey this autistic permavirgin is actually not as retarded as he COULD be
don't give a fuck

>>127042639
thank you schizo

>>127042664
thank you indian child

How did Edward Dutton The Jolly Heretic do it? Thanks to intelligence research, music has been solved and these threads have become laughable to me as dysgenic decline renders us incapable of "understanding" our forebears

The Apex of Atheists.
The Bard of Blasphemy.
The Caster of Cosmos.
The D.
The Evoker of Empiricism.
The Forth-Bringer of Faithlessness.
The God of Godlessness.
The Height of Heresy.
The Inquirer of IQ.
The Judger of Jews.
The Knight of Knowledge.
The Lover of Logic.
The Master of Materialism.
The Nirvana of Nihilism.
The Oasis of Occam.
The Proof of Paradoxes.
The Quixote of Questions.
The Rapist of Reason.
The Sex of Skepticism.
The Titan of Truth.
The Usurper of Unbelief.
The Visionary of Verifiability.
The Wagner of Wagers.
The X-Factor of Xenotheism.
The Yuck of Yahweh.
The Zing of Zarathustra.

D.

>>127042678
thank you schizo

>>127042578
>it was a unique development of Western culture and Austro-German music in particular to write instrumental music in dramatic forms.
Well there were concertos, and sometimes they were similar structurally to classical forms, modulations, development and all. Fugues had development as well. You are right and what you said needed to be pointed out as well, but again, it doesn't answer the question fully, why it happened, why did Haydn develop classical forms and not Italian renaissance composers? Why are the dramatic forms perceived as "superior" to other forms? Which is essentially what he was asking, why is music " germano-centric"?
>>127042691
He's actually religious, or at least tries to be.

>>127041797
>ruins the thread just for fun

>>127042699
I understand that you want to take the conversation into another off-topic argument about intelligence research, but it's extramusical and uninteresting. 'Geniuses per capita' doesn't answer the musical question of what made the Viennese school special even if it's true. In any case, it's correct Haydn was building on the shoulders of giants too, but no, fugues are not as dramatic as the Viennese forms, which didn't just modulate but specifically emphasised the strong contrasts of theme and of tonic and dominant, which was possible with the more homophonic textures of the period and likely the influence of Italian opera. Fugues are simply too dense to create those effects, and concertos too often preoccupied with instrumental virtuosity. Renaissance composers also lie outside the common practice period in large part because they represent the transition between the old modal styles and tonality (I remember one poster once saying he didn't like Renaissance composition because he felt blueballed by how it constantly felt like it was going to modulate but didn't). I also said nothing about the forms being superior, but that they represented that peak of an artistic direction in Western music towards the increased emphasis on abstract instrumental drama. That combined with an explosive nineteenth century for the German world is why these composer are rightfully understood as central to what Western music means in distinction to other music.

Was Anton Reicha better at counterpoint than Mozart?

>>127042698
thank you indian child

>>127042831
thank you schizo

>>127042910
thank you indian child

>>127042812
>I also said nothing about the forms being superior, but that they represented that peak of an artistic direction in Western music towards the increased emphasis on abstract instrumental drama.
Yeah that's why I put "superior" in quotation marks, but the "classical canon" was based on the idea that those composers represented the pinnacle of western music. Anyway, as I said, your reasoning is still correct, but it's good to see the bigger picture, even if it's uninteresting.

>>127042911
thank you schizo

what if i am Indian AND Schizophrenic?

>>127043135
Then you are this anon>>127042911, just being honest.

>>127042660
>>127042632
Matters more than yours, sistershitter

>>127043183
Correct.

Scarlatti

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZN3NgMnpOA

best Lute composers?

>>127043481
Dowland.

>>127043505
any recommended recordings?

now playing
some very good counterpoint in these pieces

>>127043481
Weiss, Kellner

>>127043355
Why didn't you link the playlist bruh

>>127043892
that's the other anons trademark

>>127043355
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=632U9EC0yY4

There's a Barcarolle too, noice. I think I'm gonna listen to every single Barcarolle out there at some point

>>127043908
>other anons
As if there are just 2

>>127038269
*Random Dutch sentence*

https://youtu.be/FC1MA9D_uP8?t=1054
lmao

>>127040335
You don’t have a shred of evidence to support the proposition that Bach was an atheist.

>>127044321
He's too reasonable and rational for some of the dogmatic peasants here. That said, I'm often curious about biographies too

>>127041682
>You are intelligent if and only if you are an atheist, therefore these Geniuses were actually secretly atheists
Sophomoric

>>127042387
>Either way, was curious about something: Is there any particular reason as to why, at least in the english speaking space our view of classical music is as germano-centric as it is?
Because all the great composers were German, you anime posting ignoramus
>Bach was German
>Mozart was German
>Beethoven was German

>>127042647
He is verbose; he says very little that is meaningful.

>>127042691
He was good ~5 years ago, but his content seems to have plateaued since then.

Bach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RDeU54hy4w&list=OLAK5uy_kRSBhhFiW8A32tsXaR1VX8WHdQ1r5Zcfo&index=4

>>127044321
Interesting tidbit, friend. Have an upbote.
Hurwitz doesn’t seem like the type of guy to own a doghouse, so it makes sense…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh3TI3iMb1E

>>127044803
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jSAM2VVlVQ
KOEK!

>>127044607
At least he says something, unlike some people itt

>>127044928
He doesn’t say anything, despite writing paragraphs of text.

When sisterposter finds out Mendelssohn isn’t really Jewish
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGkLjfPWqeI

>>127044988
>I didn’t know atheists wrote St Matthew Passions
KOEK

Chopin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbxzixU6oeY&list=OLAK5uy_kL3pFCfAQcFFHoSPKFKfHHql00VB-RX9U&index=32

>>127044321
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fcb3LdCfMKY

>>127044968
What you're saying is moot when 90% of this general is just the same guy repeating
>So true sister

>>127045041
based julio
https://youtu.be/A9jf0kP-y2g&t=17

>>127044321
He's gay, Hurwitz?

>>127045041
This song's use in the ending of Tinker, Tailor, Solder, Spy is pure cinema. I've been in love with it ever since.

Bach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeGZ-rq2C_0&list=OLAK5uy_kF758MSdH0sI51XVFyS2gnZWw75h2Tq7c&index=10

>die cunts der fuck
What did Bach mean by this

>>127045369
a life's work
he had 20 children

>>127045062
I despise people like that. They think they're so smart and witty when in fact they have zero originality or brains, repeating the same obnoxious riposte to everything hundreds of times for attention or out of insecurity. It's almost pitiable.

>>127045295
I thought the film was great. Then I read the books and realised it was a terrible adaptation.

>>127045928
George Smiley was a cuck in the books too

>>127045945
Naturally, he was a British spy/
Karla was Putin-Sauron

Purcll

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0luS5HK1Hz4

>>127039961
Mendelssohn's music is still Jewish, he just chose the method of neurotic self-effacement rather than neurotic self-expression as his means of cope. You can see it in his obsession with writing in older Baroque and Classical styles.

>>127044321
I was already laughing at what he was saying about his interest in Jews being composers and then
>My partner's African-American! He's African-American!
LOL!

>>127046120
To be fair Schubert wrote in older classical (though not baroque) styles too. And Bach's own baroque style was also considered old-fashioned in his time.
But yes, I was surprised to find out Mendelssohn was born post-1800.

now playing

start of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 28 in A Major, Op. 101
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqLvhsonprQ&list=OLAK5uy_nzu7Z1_sEygGGKFj4kwmhiKs0yzZeP-ns&index=2

start of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 30 in E Major, Op. 109
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoKnw64tDVo&list=OLAK5uy_nzu7Z1_sEygGGKFj4kwmhiKs0yzZeP-ns&index=6

start of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 32 in C Minor, Op. 111
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pgl9ahAfS0Q&list=OLAK5uy_nzu7Z1_sEygGGKFj4kwmhiKs0yzZeP-ns&index=8

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nzu7Z1_sEygGGKFj4kwmhiKs0yzZeP-ns

>Édouard Herriot once said, "In Beethoven, everything comes from within. His model is not the rule of the schoolroom." This is particularly true of the late sonatas, which contain elements of both an intimate journal (Romain Rolland saw in Op.101 "a day in the inner life" of Beethoven) and total experimentation (the variations of Op.109) before attaining the mystical serenity of the very last sonata, Op.111. Here is Nikolai Lugansky's powerful vision of this pianistic Everest.

>>127046120
>>127046120
Explain how a guy with a foreskin can be Jewish…

>>127046183
This is a question at which I believe Wagner is quite adept in answering.

>>127046241
Add it to the list
>Jesus was Jewish
>Hitler was Jewish
>Trump is Jewish
>Putin is Jewish
>Bach was Jewish
> Mendelsohn was Jewish
>Wagner was Jewish

hot-take, possibly pleb opinion: the finale/4th movement of Bruckner's 4th and 5th is the worst movement in those symphonies

Beethoven was a deist not an atheist.

i can't take german composers seriously any more. when you look into it they're always imitating or lagging behind an italian equivalent, they're never innovators, the only thing they were better at was arrogant self-promotion

>>127046588
LOL

>>127046588
Just to be clear, you're listening to opera all day or what?

>>127046595
no i actually prefer chamber music, which germans are also largely mediocre at

>>127046588
>>127046630
Bait should be believable
Dogma should be defensible
Ritual should be repeatable
Liturgy should be legible
Belief should be beautiful
What fulfils these conditions in the decadent modern world in which "God is Dead"? Answer: the holy poetry of Richard Wagner and his "Sacred Festival Stage Play" which transforms and supersedes religion.
https://youtu.be/yF0pwSC7qWg?list=PL_Cf5Xxn5OZY1gE9zsWHAjXz6MVz9IZYS

>>127046630
Hmm. I suppose I like Rossini's String Sonatas as much as the next guy. What else?

>>127046588
>>127046653
>mfw

>>127046644
>What fulfils these conditions in the decadent modern world in which "God is Dead"? Answer: the holy poetry of Richard Wagner and his "Sacred Festival Stage Play" which transforms and supersedes religion.
Y'know, Nietzsche ended up being right, only it's not Wagner's operas people take their cues from, but rather some more contemporary media. In other words, Western people are no longer Christians or the like, but instead some-character-from-Stranger-Things-ist, etc.

>>127046595
It's not even applicable there since Weber and Wagner.

>>127046143
I don't see the humour.

Tchaikovsky
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I02LVhq-fRA

>>127047142
Karajan was a member of the NSDAP.
Uncancellable.

Meanwhile Fartwrangler kissed Jewish ass and they cancelled him anyway.

> In 1949 Furtwängler accepted the position of principal conductor of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. However the orchestra was forced to rescind the offer under the threat of a boycott from several prominent musicians including Arturo Toscanini, George Szell, Vladimir Horowitz, Arthur Rubinstein, Isaac Stern, and Alexander Brailowsky

>>127047220
Inferiority breeds envy.

>>127047248
Fartwrangler triec to swim between two waters and paid the price.

>>127047033
It would be a defensible position at least.

>>127047288
'Germans were never innovators in opera' is not a defensible position.

>>127047341
You're not an Italiophile.

>>127047248
Fartwrangler had an inferiority complex regarding Karajan
> This realization marked the beginning of an intense and enduring hatred and contempt for Karajan, which persisted until Furtwängler's death.

>>127047381
Important to mention that the realization was Karajan being a total sellout who allowed himself to be weaponised against Furtwangler by the Nazi elite. It had nothing to do with Furtwangler envying Karajan, lol.

>>127047414
>Karajan was a sellout for joining the party of his people
Shalom

>>127047414
Fartwrangler paid a Jew named Curt Riess to rehabilitate his reputation with the Jewx after the war (during which he had stayed in Germany sucking up to Hitler).

>>127047414
Fartwrangler paid a Jew named Curt Riess to rehabilitate his reputation amongst the Jews after the war (during the war Fartwrangler had stayed in Germany sucking up to Hitler).

now playing

start of Shostakovich: Symphony No. 9 in E-Flat Major, Op. 70
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptgjpWs5DGc&list=OLAK5uy_lvHiKMTlwLDXSfE6OdVJxQS36Jq_ah0hk&index=2

start of Shostakovich: Symphony No. 10 in E Minor, Op. 93
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hwy-7S3MNtg&list=OLAK5uy_lvHiKMTlwLDXSfE6OdVJxQS36Jq_ah0hk&index=6

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lvHiKMTlwLDXSfE6OdVJxQS36Jq_ah0hk

>For Gianandrea Noseda, the Ninth is Shostakovich at his most 'classical', but a modern statement nonetheless. "Stalin wanted a celebration of the victory of Russia, and Shostakovich came out with a sort of opera buffa symphony," the LSO's Principal Guest Conductor says. "Short, witty, lots of sarcasm. I can really feel his wish to go against what was expected of him." The Tenth Symphony was written after Stalin's death and allegedly portrays the tragedy, despair, terror and violence of his tenure. The second movement is a musical portrait of Stalin, a march of unremitting terror and frenzied violence, while the finale contains some of the slowest music of the whole symphony, a reminder of the desolation of the Gulag prisoners.

good night

Dvorak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bw5Vsg9vRNs

>>127044522
Hilarious strawman, lowbrow.

>>127048215
You should be thanking me for simplifying this deranged ramble:
> Atheisthooven seems like the usual 19th century genius (they were all atheist to some degree) to me. The proof lies in his intelligence and achievements as well. I have repeatedly stated that atheism positivey correlates to g, ergo most geniuses were atheist or atheist offshoot. Christianity is irrational, so even if Atheisthooven wasn't by-definition atheist, he wasn't a christian either.

>>127048215
You should be thanking me for steel-manning your deranged argument:
> Atheisthooven seems like the usual 19th century genius (they were all atheist to some degree) to me. The proof lies in his intelligence and achievements as well. I have repeatedly stated that atheism positivey correlates to g, ergo most geniuses were atheist or atheist offshoot. Christianity is irrational, so even if Atheisthooven wasn't by-definition atheist, he wasn't a christian either.

>>127048298
>You are intelligent if and only if you are an atheist,
So a strawman, gotcha. And please, keep it on topic.

>>127048308
Don’t shoot the messenger, buddy. I am just putting your moronic argument in a presentable form.

>>127048326
No, you are just copy pasting and contributing nothing to the discussion or the thread. You should consider >>>/b/

Bach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gCpyJaxo0E

>>127048215
There is absolutely no correlation between genius and the belief or lack of belief in the ideas that you consider irrational. If anything, it's rather silly to expect an artist, an individual whose entire concern is the irrational, to value secular logic and reason above all else. It goes without saying that the development of psychology (James, Jung) and feeling/quality-based theology (Schleiermacher, Feuerbach, Ritschl) have essentially provided room for religion to coexist with rational truths. And one requires no greater justification for the latter than the great intellectual, artistic and moral achievements of religious culture, unthinkable without its motivating force. It is unlikely achievements of equal greatness will or can exist under the auspices of so flaccid and intellectually unsatisfying a force as secular humanism.

Reich
Music for 18 Musicians
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oOmUi4HGt0
Captcha: G8ths

>>127033594
so what he is saying is Nietzsche had shitty basic-ass taste

I'm a poet and classical music like Glenn Gould's Bach motivates me to write.

>>127049149
>an artist
>an individual whose entire concern is the irrational

>>127049702
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwas_7H5KUs

>>127049702
more like Gay Ghoul

>>127049708
>You will not disrespectfully about a member of the family
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SHtyGc8pfk

>>127049149
>It goes without saying that the development of psychology (James, Jung) and feeling/quality-based theology (Schleiermacher, Feuerbach, Ritschl) have essentially provided room for religion to coexist with rational truths.
?

>It is unlikely achievements of equal greatness will or can exist under the auspices of so flaccid and intellectually unsatisfying a force as secular humanism.
?

>>127049702
poetically based

>>127049149
>here is absolutely no correlation
There is irrefutable empirical evidence though, but feel free to cope you ape

>>127049704
>>127049791
>>127049897
Not surprised at the complete lack of argument.

>>127049952
There was no counterargument in the first place, you just babbled ignorant nonsense against irrefutable empirical evidence. Now take your off topic trash elsewhere.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEjhA3QVdJA

>>127049702
>>127049708
The whale road
>>127045041

>>127049983
>babbled ignorant nonsense against irrefutable empirical evidence
Difficulty understanding simple English is a sign of low iq. At any rate, I wasn't the anon you were initially having the discussion with, I'm just pointing out the obvious retardation of claiming that it's low iq to be 'irrational' (a word so vague it's practically meaningless in this context).

Bruckner was an atheist

>>127050207
>claiming that it's low iq to be 'irrational'
Another nonsensical strawman. Terrible reading comprehension.
>I wasn't the anon you were initially having the discussion with
So there is nothing to talk about, then. Go argue over at >>>/pol/

>>127050786
Pretty much every composer was an atheist, but Bruckner definitely wasn't.

>>127050786
Bruckner is like the second least atheistic composer ever after Bach
he died writing a symphony dedicated to God ffs

>>127051303
>Bach
>least atheistic
lol

>>127051318
trolling outside of /b/

>>127051327
instigating flame war 24/7

Maximum reger

>>127049952
I was asking you to expand on those two statements.

Time to change the subject boys

Handel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc7vqI4R6KU

>>127051976
But I haven't argued with anyone in a little while, I'm starting to get withdrawal symptoms :(

But fine, just for you.

>>127052017
>:(
Oh, it's you

Is there any better piece to begin the day with than Mahler's 1st? I think not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvjUxpzI1Xg&list=OLAK5uy_mik_-N48hlVbjsBb_lEFiYAXATTEb33mE&index=1

>>127052038
I was trying to join the fray with my two ?'s, but seems they weren't instigating enough. I don't even know what you two were discussing before that post anyhow.

Brahms

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7xE53-QBN0

>>127052048
>you two
There were more, but it started with religious nut chimping out as always.
What are your thoughts on Brahms' Handel Variations?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9tbCkACbGU

>>127052071
One of the small handful of Brahms pieces I'm not in love with. I'm not big on the Variations form in general outside of Goldberg and Rococo, so I'm not the best judge of it.

>>127047448
Considering he immediately threw them under the bus with excuses of opportunism, and starting performing with tons of Jewish people to show how he was "one of the good guys," then, yes.

>>127052086
Kinda same, I love Goldberg, don't care much about others, even Diabelli variations filters me. But this youtuber Ryan Abshier has been shilling this piece so hard I'm giving it another go
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0lLab0tIDE

Weiss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc02a1EMjK4&list=OLAK5uy_k7QofjcpvxhKyjN4bcJ_FMAiwXTErdZ3g&index=21

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1TNhrajxZ8&list=OLAK5uy_k7AQQvkVXf1O262IdT2iEydtOi5G65yYg&index=36

Arguably Best Ever 48 on record.
This is possibly the best ever performance of the WTC on record. Perhaps only Edwin Fisher or Ralph Kirkpatrick on harpsichord (LP, used only) is in the same league. Comparisons with them are not to his disadvantage either.
Owning over 50 performances of these pieces sometimes drives me crazy. Which one to listen to? However, this set immediately became my favorite. Direct communication of the holly spirit leaps off the keys with this set. In no other set is the voice and spirit of Bach more clearly related.
Comparisons with Hewitt show that Roberts possesses greater depth and coherence, with much more emotion. Compared to Schiff, which is wayward, heavy, lacks tension and momentum and stalls, and is unacceptable (D grade,) Roberts is direct, articulate, stylish and musical. For all you Gould fans, listen to this set to see how insensitive, lacking in depth, frustrating and ultimately, boring Gould is. Comparisons with Kirkpatrick on Clavichord in Book II are closer, though the still prefer Roberts for greater spirituality & inwardness. Compared to Landowska, who is romantic, heavy handed, wayward and perhaps lacking in depth & true understanding, Roberts is structurally clearer with greater sensitivity to Bachs's spirit. Gilbert, usually good, is just plain boring, dull, lifeless. Jarrett, technically perfect, is unmusical and sounds like a computer next to Roberts. No depth at all. Richter, typically, lacks depth and comprehension. Jando, romantic, lightweight, lacks any intensity at all. Tureck is great, almost matching Roberts in depth, but plays to slowly which can be problematic for some-Noisy recordings too. Roberts is tighter, playing with greater integrity, and still greater spirituallity.
Play this, then play any other after and you will see just how good Roberts is and just how great the work is.

thoughts on the sad tunes of schubert?


https://youtu.be/sIIS-UgixGE

https://youtu.be/P72KhZtR09U?
I am quite tired, anons

>>127038387
This shit sounds like bizarre polka

https://youtu.be/URMrOnjSufw?si=XKZJQGIuYeqaru1-

Looking for recs for haunting melancholic classical , don’t fuck with the happy stuff. Already Henryk enjoyer

>>127032846
it insists upon itself

>>127053033
>haunting melancholic classical
Chopin's Ballades.
Listen until they click.

>>127053033
https://youtu.be/BIvWjI4PrJw

>>127053033
the symphonies of Allan Pettersson

>Hammerklavier first movement closer to ten minutes than eleven minutes
into the garbage it goes

Haydn symphony no. 99 SUCKS

>>127054218
No it doesn't

Anyone have any thoughts on Richard Goode's Beethoven Piano Sonatas set?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgF-tZ4guMc&list=OLAK5uy_mp_Kiqnd9VPrOZSH8cmo6Hwwl2qnuKCbA
Music of the Swedish Great Power Period

>>127054388
I think they're a bit dry and lack pedaling for my tastes (as far as I recall), but they're quite good and worth checking out still.

>>127054388
They're not that goode

>>127054494
I see, ty

>>127053651
>>127054119
Thanks

time for me to shill Zelenka
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqHmjDHXyn4&list=OLAK5uy_nxMuJyf1zRZyRoKuV1OsPZ-z_uj2n_4Y4&index=2

>wand's bruckner
:/
>thielemann's bruckner
:|
>barenboim's bruckner
:)
>karajan's bruckner
:D
>celibidache's bruckner
:O

Liszt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufv40Z9zNlU&list=OLAK5uy_kWf4SOneR8O-AgMeNKZF59JC25NYCKrwo&index=1

>>127054884
where's my 23 minute mahler 5 adagietto

>>127055344
https://youtu.be/pthFFkCCwkM&t=65
kino

>>127054884
we have the exact opposite taste

Bach was an atheist [1]

[1] https://www.bach-cantatas.com/Articles/Bach-Atheist.htm

>>127055743
*cums on you*

>>127055747
t-t-thanks anon

>>127044321
based gay hurwitz taking the BBC in the behind

>>127052573
What do you think of Ishikaza?

>>127044321
FYI he is referring to a business partner, so you can stop fantasizing about gay sex now.

>>127056573
He sucks dick, dude.

>>127055743
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM-e46xdcUo

Building a large record collection is a substitute-activity for having children.

Wagner's music—dense, ecstatic, thunderous—was no mere entertainment. It was the cry of a man who saw gods and monsters in the mirror of his own ambition. And like all prophets, he demanded sacrifice.

As the curtain rises on Tristan, on Parsifal, on The Ring, it also falls—on old Europe, on old belief. And through the smoke of incense and revolution, one name remained—dreaded, adored, misunderstood.

Wagner.

>>127058514
tyws.

>>127035911
I'm never going to find this piece again, am I?

>>127058345
and that's a good thing

>>127058632
It’s probably cheaper to have a child than to assemble a Hurwitzian collection.

>>127056573
https://www.classicstoday.com/about-us/

https://www.pressherald.com/2024/08/16/obituarydavid-vernier-2/

>>127056573
Shalom

new
>>127059042
>>127059042
>>127059042

>>127055858
I am going to vomit.