When was emo taken over by theatre kids? Emotional music used to be depressed guys wearing plain t shirts and jeans mumbling over hard and light riffs. Then they all started using a valley girl accent in the late 90s and being catty queens. How do you get from Mineral to Panic?

>>127157521 (OP)
Theatre kids are very emotional

>>127157650

Yeah enough to put on costumes and dye their hair.

>>127157521 (OP)
I like Panic compared to a lot bands of that ilk.

bc panic is not emo
also using ''theater kid'' as a demeaning expression makes you sound like a bitter loser, and emo is not bitter loser music, especially mineral which has some of the most beautiful songs ever

>>127157521 (OP)
Ah yes. Music never changes. People never try anything different.

>>127157521 (OP)
>Inb4 "real emo" copypasta
Punk became more accessible the more time went on. Emo started as a more "emotional" and introspective version of hardcore that eventually morphed into its own thing

>>127158358
>emo is not bitter loser music
Some of it definitely is.

>>127158358

I mean i would call bowie a theatre kid doing rock. The diffrence is that bowie writes good songs. I can live with both but i just find the mid 2000s surge popularity alienating. As you say its more like pop or pop punk than emotional hardcore. Look at that song I dont Love you by chemical romance which sounds like a coldplay song. I like some songs by them and other bands of that era but there is definately a different mindset.

>>127158746
Bowie bombed in his early Sgt. Pepper alike stuff.. but met a master Mime. Then his life changed. Not theater exactly. Clowns.

I would say emo started with Zen Arcade by Husker Du. Songs like Chartered Trips, Whatever and Eight Miles High imo codified emotional hardcore. Bands took on the mantle by adding more personal lyrics and affected singing to their songs. This strain though was never really popular even into the 90s where it was more or less shared in magazines and by record collectors. The pop punk movement (which Husker Du also influenced funnily enough) became big when alternative music became popular. Labels started signing bands that sounded like that and some bands that were influenced by emotional hardcore were caught in the net. This influence was diluted over time until a new sound was created and mass marketed. I would have to fill in a lot of gaps though with this theory.

>>127158771

There was still a theatrical instinct with Bowie. Look at Ziggy Stardust and the Great White Duke.

>>127158797
Yeah, but I think he got in that world from his clow connections first. lol. It's semi-connected to theater though. He called himself the "Actor" in one of his liner notes. Forgot which.

>>127158845
clown*

>>127157521 (OP)
>when was faggot music taken over by faggots?

>>127157521 (OP)
shudder to think was doing gay theatrical vocals in the 80s brah.

>>127158987

Thats a stretch. They were more like a hardcore punk band (for one record). From what I remember they lifted riffs from Husker Du and some other hardcore bands. Rites of Spring was theatrical (roses thrown from the crowd and emotional outbursts) but that seemed organic and almost cringeworthy in how exposed it was. The theatrics im talking about have no depth and seemed like posing.

>>127159072
It's not really a stretch at all. Mid 80s DC hardcore is the birth of emo and Shidder to Think had pretty recognizably "emo" vocals compared to other bands of that era. Anyways, things change and new influences are added to genres over time. Why did Panic add in circus-y musical theater elements? Because they wanted to. What other explanation are you looking for?
You have Fall Out Boy doing Take This to Your Grave in 03 and those vocals are obviously a major influence on Panic's style. You have The Used debuting in 02, who wore top hats and shit in their music videos. Panic was very influenced by Blink 182 as well, who had experimented with old time-y suit and tie shit on I Miss You in 02.
My point with Shudder to Think isn't that they influenced any of this, just to point out that there are forbearers for this stuff. Antioch Arrow was doing weird cabaret screamo in the 90s.

>>127157521 (OP)
eyeliner wearing faggots have nothing to do with the genre. someone like Sufjan Stevens is much closer in spirit to Mineral than any of those 00s pop bands. I don't care what normalfags consider emo.

mineral and promise ring and all that shit is just indie rock desu. emo should have some recognizable punk elements.

>>127159142

Thats what im wondering though. Is it just a cross pollination that happened in the 90s and that strain became popular? The emotional hardcore that started in the 80s still had descendents with band like The Pine in the 2000s. There was something that happened in the 90s where emo (pop laced albeit) almost broke through but never really did. Then it reappeared in the 2000s and became a big thing. Im guessing music videos were also a huge reason for the theatrics. I cant see Texas is the Reason and those other bands with no discernable frontman in a big budget MTV video but someone like Gerard Way definitely had a presence.

>>127159235
The big difference is songwriting. The stuff with the biggest hooks will obviously be the popular stuff. Add in better production, more palatable vocals, and image that appeals to teenagers and it's pretty self explanatory. Again, I don't get what is confusing here. Texas Is the Reason was not going to have a top 10 hit like I Write Sins even with a big budget music video because their songs just aren't that catchy.

>>127159283

Im not confused about why one is more popular than the other its why both ended up being synonymous with each other and how that sound came about. I think it has more to do with pop punk in the mid to late 90s than emo. There also seems to me to be this weird U2 kind of influence there as well

>>127159365
a lot of 00s emo style does come from "real" emo. there's crossover with stuff like the used and thursday and taking back sunday which started out as emo bands in the hardcore scenes and then took off. then people associate that style with emo, and extend that to other bands with similar elements like hawthorne heights and mychem. eventually black hair and eyeliner=emo for the general public. you also have influences from nine inch nails, marilyn manson, and other 90s bands because thats what the people who would eventually start those 00s pop emo bands listened to.
at the same time you have lifetime->saves the day->new found glory->fall out boy pipeline which took a style of melodic pop punk with emotional lyrics to the mainstream, where it then intermingled and became associated with blink, good charlotte, sum 41, etc.
it all originates from hardcore. emo=emotional hardcore. mineral didn't really have any more to do with hardcore than fall out boy did in the early days. the difference is fall out boy had hits and changed their sound to broaden their appeal, so they win out in the public consciousness.

>>127159445

Yeah I guess that sounds right. A band like Saves the Day wasnt really recognised as emo until later (unless they were and im miserembering). I guess another thing to take into account as you said with the other 90s bands is that alternative scene with full of bands with heavy riffs singing personal lyrics in a affected way. It was kind of melting pot that was boiled into the rock that became popular in the 2000s. A lot of 90s emo was also independent and 'rough mixed' which gave it a lo fi sound. That being said, I hear riffs from those bands in these later bands but the mindset is completely different. Thats the thing though does any so called punk band today have the edge that 70s punk bands had? Like any genre it becomes a pose after a while and the original organic meaning lost.

>>127159563
nobody recognized anything as emo until later. it was sort of latched onto in the 90s because people wanted a new grunge, and stuck around after that. but none of the bands ever liked or used the term.
genres are stupid in the first place and caring about the sanctity of an arbitrary category of music that you can't even define is kind of... gay. what makes mineral emo but new found glory isn't? neither one sounds like embrace. is dag nasty emo? is gray matter emo? is elliott smith emo? is blink 182 emo? who can say.

>>127159633

I suppose so but I think there was a definite through line and emotional hardcore is a good name for a certain batch of bands that continued until now. Other bands not so much. Some shot off in a different direction with a nice clean producer who sweetened their sound. Dag Nasty and Embrace are overrated tho. You can now berate me.

>>127159726
>Dag Nasty and Embrace are overrated tho.
i don't really care, my point is the 90s emo that you like is already completely different from the 80s emo that started it, so why is it different when 00s emo goes a different direction?

>>127159765
>so why is it different when 00s emo goes a different direction?

Yeah but that was point. Was it really emo or just a strain of pop punk. You hear good emotional hardcore music from the 2000s but its lucky if they sold more than a 1000 copies. I think our conversation is going two different directions.

>>127159807
>Was it really emo or just a strain of pop punk
this is my point though, why can't pop punk be emo? 90s blink 182 is certainly more punk in sound than the promise ring was. i would say they are closer to "hardcore" than texas is the reason. what's the deciding factor? if dag nasty is emo, they were pretty close to pop punk. grey matter was basically pop punk.

>>127158746
>I mean i would call bowie a theatre kid doing rock
>Look at that song I dont Love you by chemical romance which sounds like a coldplay song.
And they have the song The End that sounds like Five Years by Bowie. My Chemical Romance is directly influenced by Bowie, they have cited Ziggy Stardust as an influence for Black Parade and Diamond Dogs for Danger Days, concept wise. You can definitely hear and see the glam rock influence in mcr in general and Gerard Way is clearly inspired by Bowie for his stage presence and personas.

The best emo is the A/AA bands from the east coast that never got massive but are easily known with a little digging. Early 90’s sucked.

>>127157521 (OP)
Emo was always punk for theatre kids. Rites Of Spring named themselves after a Tchaikovsky piece.

>>127157521 (OP)
Is it still me that makes you sweat?

>>127164046
Am I who you think about in bed?