Why were they ever scrapped?
They're efficient, pleasant to ride in and far cheaper than a tram network to set up or maintain. With new and improved battery technology, flexibility can be maximised and disruption mitigated.

Their hill-climbing ability is unmatched by the majority of public transit modes. Acceleration is better than diesel buses and energy from braking can be recovered.

With all the net-zero, carbon neutral initiatives, surely transit agencies should be clamouring for them?

>>2039318 (OP)
trolley buses still exist outside the anglosphere

>>2039318 (OP)
>cheaper than a tram network to set up
yes
>or maintain.
no
They're also a weird in-between thing that doesn't really exhibit just the advantages of both but also the disadvantages.

>>2039324
>They're also a weird in-between thing that doesn't really exhibit just the advantages of both but also the disadvantages.
I hear this a lot about various transportation methods but to me it just sounds like hand-waving.

Why does everyone act like regenerative braking is something simple to do? It's really not. There's a reason most trains just throw it through resistors and use it to turn fans to cool off said resistors.

>>2039318 (OP)
NIMBYists dislikes the wires, government officials thinks battery vehicles are the future and also don't want to pay a little more for the infrastructure and companies will gadly take the money.
>>2039325
Trolleybuses are kinda weird where they need more infrastructure than a bus but less than a tram, while having no direct transportation advantage to either, just being cheaper and cleaner to run, but can't run everywhere.
I still think they should replace every bus service with a trolleybus, except if the bus lines in a city keep changing all the time.

>>2039318 (OP)
>With all the net-zero, carbon neutral initiatives, surely transit agencies should be clamouring for them?
Transit agencies, sure, but Oil interests? Definitely not. It was genius of them to lobby streetcars out of existence to promote buses which runs on their product. It's so crazy how Oil stole America but everyone is too indoctrinated to care.

>>2039329
>It's so crazy how Oil stole America but everyone is too indoctrinated to care.
No we've heard this a million times before and it's a half-truth at best

>>2039318 (OP)
The trolley wires are ugly, that's why

>>2039318 (OP)
>Why were they ever scrapped?
Not in Hongcouver.. I mean, Vancouver, British Columbia.

>>2039325
You get all the crappy parts of the bus but also the fixed route and ugly wires of a train.

>>2039344
The relative quietness of a trolleybus and not having to smell diesel fumes is nice and it's still much cheaper than a tram line

It's not like everything is mutually disadvantageous, as with any other choice in play there are tradeoffs to consider

>>2039340
I'd rather see the wire than breathe the gas.

>>2039332
Where do you not see a body herded in to a gas chamber?

>>2039318 (OP)
tram is a long term permanent solution to make a high load transport backbone
bus is a more flexible but less efficient solution to make branches, measure interest in a tram backbone, or short term substitute another mode of transport
traditional trolleybus requires permanent infrastructure and route planning like the tram, yet lacks the efficiency and throughput
a half battery trolleybus using the cable networks to charge while moving and then freely jumping off them to serve districts with no permanent infrastructure just like a bus is an optimal solution for cities that already have the trolleybus infrastructure, but many cities find it too expensive to upgrade, so they would rather sell the cables for copper scrap and use that money to buy simple electric buses instead

>>2039318 (OP)
>Why were they ever scrapped?
Because Buses were cheaper, faster and more efficient back then, also the automobile boom.
Most americans think it was an inside job (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy) but if cars were cheap and there were no traffic I am sure anyone would choose to have their own personal vehicle rather than sharing it with strangers and having to wait until it arrives.
>With all the net-zero, carbon neutral initiatives, surely transit agencies should be clamouring for them?
Yeah, but when they realize the electric cables or ground electrified rails limit the mobility they rather buy electric buses or go full railway and build trams and metro systems.
Trams and metro systems are currently experiencing a second boom/revival worldwide and that's great.

>>2039324
a trolleybus network has got no track so it has to be cheaper than a tram network to maintain

>>2039318 (OP)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolleybuses_in_Philadelphia
Philly has some.
Advantages: ease of maintenance, lighter than battery-buses, can go around double-parked cars (unlike trolleys), mostly ADA compliant.
Disadvantages: Can only go where catenary is.

>>2039883
rubber tires wear faster than steel on rails so it becomes more expensive to mantain In the long run. Also misses the point on going green which is why they rather turn it into a tram

>>2039954
>rubber tires wear faster than steel on rails so it becomes more expensive to mantain In the long run.
Tires and wheels aren't the only costs associated with either. Tram systems require way more maintenance than buses or trolleybuses. Pic rel used data from around 5 years ago but you get the idea. Operating and maintenance costs are factored into these data, numbers are per hour.

>>2039954
retard
trams are more expensive to build and run

>>2039883
Don't listen to this retard >>2039954
Trams are obviously more expensive to build and maintain, even when you measure it in relation to transport capacity. Just like heavy rail is even more expensive. It's just that if you want the added capacity and better capabilities you have to spend the extra money. A trolleybus doesn't replace a tram, just like a tram doesn't replace a subway. Different means of transport for different situations.
HOWEVER a bus *does* replace a trolleybus and it's cheaper. That's why trolleybuses are uncommon. Few cities are willing to spend the extra money just so their buses will be clean and quiet yet carry just as many people. And now with battery buses becoming common there's even less of a reason to have trolleybuses. I say this as an absolute trolleybus respecter, I absolutely think the extra cost is worth it and don't mind the catenaries at all. But try convincing the retards in charge of this.

>>2039885
>Philly has some.
I can't believe the grant coming due was enough to cause SEPTA to buy more trolleybuses in the '00s. When lines drop, they almost never come back again.
Fuck I hate battery buses and shit.

>>2039885
Solution: add moar catenary.
Trolleybuses for all frequent crosstown routes.

Heading back to depot

>>2040059
The problem specifically with trams is that the capacity they add versus busses doesnt justify their cost in most cases; they just end up being this unhappy middle between busses and proper metros.
This isnt even bringing up the inflexibility of trams which are stuck servicing particular corridors where busses can easily be diverted onto detours if there's construction along their route, have additional vehicles dispatched to meet fluctuations in demand, be staged for replacement services for other modes of transit or as shuttles for sporting events..
You get the idea

>>2039364
>tram is a long term permanent solution to make a high load transport backbone

yeah, people like rail transport. Buses just don't have the same panache. Something about rail in the ground helps incentivize economic development. A bus route can be changed at the whims of local politicians. A tram route cannot be changed easily

>>2039326
Because its very ubiquitous on cars, and has been for over a decade.

>>2043184
Regenerative braking only became 'easy' with modern power electronics, so around the 90s for trains. Before those (i.e. at a time when trolley buses still existed in numbers) it was an absolute pain and most trains indeed didn't have it either. Electric cars at the time were a joke too. The last major locomotives in Germany that don't have it are currently being phased out.
A lot of people seem to forget that this is a field that has seen a LOT of improvement in the last 30 years and project todays technological capabilities onto the situation half a century ago.

>>2042925
How is Portugal so inclined to various manners of public transport while Spain seems terribly allergic to anything that isn't buses and subways? Spain has practically no 1st gen trams, had only very short-lived trolleybus systems (none remain), has an obsession with with putting train tracks underground and throws hissyfits over 2nd gen tram systems.

>>2043257
Don't really know; they've existed for a long time, though, first trams here were still horse pulled.
Trolleybuses are sadly gone everywhere, though; instead of upgrading them with batteries to obviate their major issue (being paralyzed in the middle of traffic by a sudden loss of power), they pretty much just got rid of them everywhere after claiming they were more expensive to operate than buses; then they went on and started replacing buses with muh fucking e-buses. Because those are so inexpensive, right...?
Trams are also sadly long gone, other than in Lisbon or some mostly tourist line in Porto.
Now they're pushing hard cancerous metrobuses, screwing with everyones lives, because muh phony globowarming.

>>2039318 (OP)
>be me
>ride the trolleybus in Poopensharten
>is nice
>rides on the road so sometimes it gets a bit bumpy since cars also ride there
>suddenly, traffic jam
>"tch..." says the driver at the front of the line, missing the green light as he was busy lighting his cigarette "nothing personel, kid"

>>2039364
>traditional trolleybus requires permanent infrastructure and route planning like the tram, yet lacks the efficiency and throughput
On the other hand, a trolleybus is able to go up much steeper hills than a tram, and in some cities that's a big factor.

Since the chinks at BYD perfected battery busses they have been completely obsolete

>>2044098
same energy as people in the 50s saying
>we have buses now so we don't need trams anymore