Thread 28458296 - /o/ [Archived: 1011 hours ago]

Anonymous
6/14/2025, 2:08:38 PM No.28458296
20250614134014_1
20250614134014_1
md5: 60b5277e2e70ad76c5e117744a7ad54d๐Ÿ”
How does tuning gear ratios work in real life? Don't you practically have to tear down and rebuild your gearbox with custom made gears? Do people really do that? Can that not cause other issues? Games make it seem like an easy thing, just tweak some numbers.

Sorry, I'm tourist on this board and know nothing about real cars.
Replies: >>28458303 >>28458328 >>28458545 >>28458627 >>28458649 >>28458696 >>28459471 >>28461793 >>28465247
Anonymous
6/14/2025, 2:11:41 PM No.28458299
You'd have to machine your custom set of gears, and you can't just make a huge gear, it needs to fit in the box.
Replies: >>28458304
Anonymous
6/14/2025, 2:14:06 PM No.28458303
>>28458296 (OP)
>Don't you practically have to tear down and rebuild your gearbox with custom made gears?
yes indeed
>Do people really do that?
for some race cars, sure. having different ratios for different tracks could be absolutely massive.
>Can that not cause other issues?
not really? unless you do it improperly I guess, by just using random gears you found on the ground
>Games make it seem like an easy thing, just tweak some numbers.
It's definitely not an easy thing, no. It's very expensive and time consuming. you would do it between races, not at the track.

but changing the final drive is a lot easier, and some cars even have quick change rear ends (like drift cars) so you'd be able to change the final drive in a few minutes.
Replies: >>28458306 >>28458307
Anonymous
6/14/2025, 2:14:45 PM No.28458304
>>28458299
>you can't just make a huge gear, it needs to fit in the box
I have to assume they set the number limits in games to account for this.
Anonymous
6/14/2025, 2:16:55 PM No.28458306
>>28458303
>changing the final drive is a lot easier
In front engined RWD cars
The others have the diff inside the gearbox
Replies: >>28458308
Anonymous
6/14/2025, 2:19:31 PM No.28458307
>>28458303
>not really? unless you do it improperly I guess, by just using random gears you found on the ground
I guess that was my question, how easy is it to make a mistake that would cause issues? I was thinking along the line of too big gaps between ratios, or something else I haven't even thought of. Like I said I know nothing about working on real cars.
Replies: >>28458308 >>28458310
Anonymous
6/14/2025, 2:20:49 PM No.28458308
>>28458306
any car without a transaxle gearbox, yes.

>>28458307
it's done by professional race teams, so while yes you would be able to do something stupid in theory, they know what they're doing. today all that shit would even be optimized on simulators before building the actual gears.
Anonymous
6/14/2025, 2:21:48 PM No.28458310
>>28458307
Idk man
I expect people to understand the power band before they even think of fucking with the gearbox IRL
Anonymous
6/14/2025, 2:25:59 PM No.28458315
Related question, what other tuning options do games typically have that's really difficult, expensive or time consuming to do in real life?
Replies: >>28458325 >>28458344 >>28458345 >>28458614 >>28461663 >>28461799 >>28465247
Anonymous
6/14/2025, 2:35:31 PM No.28458325
>>28458315
Literally anything that isn't a bov and fuel remap
Replies: >>28458330
Anonymous
6/14/2025, 2:38:50 PM No.28458328
1736752387900
1736752387900
md5: b2ccf2957acb4a704dcd71ee49e3e122๐Ÿ”
>>28458296 (OP)
The internals have to be customized.
This is an 8:1 ratio Saginaw 600 series that NASCAR used to use.
It was a whopping $3,000 because all the eternals are made from billet.
1 turn-lock-to-lock.
Of 1/2 a turn to full lock in one direction.
Anonymous
6/14/2025, 2:41:04 PM No.28458330
>>28458325
Tuning, say, suspension isn't as easy as turning some screws?
Replies: >>28458337 >>28458347 >>28458574
Anonymous
6/14/2025, 2:51:35 PM No.28458337
>>28458330
Changing the setup might be simple but not wrecking the handling is when you get a massive headache and bill
Anonymous
6/14/2025, 3:03:37 PM No.28458344
ry5ib4piwhe71
ry5ib4piwhe71
md5: c243629c3a4cb6c4a006e7eec228a179๐Ÿ”
>>28458315
Anonymous
6/14/2025, 3:04:43 PM No.28458345
>>28458315
most of the others things you can tune tend to be pretty doable on race cars. Everything to do with suspension, aero, anti roll bars, tire pressure... is usually easily adjustable (to a certain extent).
Some of the suspension tuning you can do would require changing springs IRL probably, but that's not incredibly hard to do, just requires time and having different weight springs on hand.
Anonymous
6/14/2025, 3:05:47 PM No.28458347
>>28458330
you can change rebound with a screw or two on the damper, and the suspension usually has several mounting points so you can change the geometry, so you can do a lot by just "turning some screws".
Anonymous
6/14/2025, 5:42:54 PM No.28458545
>>28458296 (OP)
If you're super anal you can do that. I have a 4 speed that goes from a tire shredding 3:1 to a leasurely 1.6:1 and it's awful for any kind of spirited driving because 2nd is too tall for most corners and 1st is way too short. There's a gear set I can throw in that will bring 1st to 2.8:1 and second down to 1.5:1. It should make the box more usable
Anonymous
6/14/2025, 6:01:39 PM No.28458574
>>28458330
getting the thrust angle of two wheels that are not connected to each other correct is insanely difficult
i started doing my own alignments because of mods and while it is very easy to, say, align each side of the car by precise measurements, it's very difficult to actually get it driving in a straight line, because you need to actually roll it, even on a laser alignment machine, in order to calculate what direction each end of the car is actually trying to go. there are lots of false positives and things that are only apparent in a hard turn or at high speeds. all your tires need to be precisely inflated. and yeah, the adjustment is literally like one screw or an eccentric bolt that you might only crank over a quarter turn to affect entire tenths of degrees of adjustment.

it's not that difficult but it's definitely not easy either. the only reason i can do it by eyeball is because i play lots of sims so i generally know what any car will behave like with any particular setup by just thinking about the wheels rolling on pavement.
Replies: >>28458606
Anonymous
6/14/2025, 6:25:10 PM No.28458606
>>28458574
Interesting.
No game I know of simulated this level of car tuning.
Replies: >>28458636
Anonymous
6/14/2025, 6:27:52 PM No.28458614
>>28458315
Any NA power mods; making heads flow better, increasing displacement, balancing the rotating assembly, ITB's, rolling road tuning, etc., etc... Building NA motors takes shitloads of time and money, and it's why most people just slap on a turbo and call it quits.
Anonymous
6/14/2025, 6:36:07 PM No.28458627
>>28458296 (OP)
changing individual gear drives is not really a thing outside of the absolute top tier of racing

changing the final drive ratio is common though, race cars are made with that in mind and will have easily swappable gears for their diff housings

when it comes to the amateur level, if the kind of cars do not have a quick change rear end, then it probably involves swapping out the whole diff which isn't a huge deal but not something you would test and tune at the race track
Anonymous
6/14/2025, 6:40:32 PM No.28458636
>>28458606
huh? they all do, alignment is like the most basic type of tuning option in a simulator.
i genuinely copy my own rfactor and assetto corsa tuning preferences and they work almost exactly the same way irl, you just can't abuse tire wear like you can in a game, and well, you can't trust user made mods to be accurate or have correct suspension geometry, but you CAN trust the tires' contact patch and what different types of alignment settings do to the base handling of the car, no matter how bad it may be to begin with.
understanding suspension is like unlocking a new powerlevel of autism
Replies: >>28458651
Anonymous
6/14/2025, 6:53:06 PM No.28458649
>>28458296 (OP)
I had a differential built with a different final drive ratio ring and pinion set that's going in the car soon
Anonymous
6/14/2025, 6:54:20 PM No.28458651
>>28458636
>huh? they all do, alignment is like the most basic type of tuning option in a simulator.
But you just edit some numbers, you don't get the sense of the actual work involved in doing those changes IRL and how finicky it can be (If I understood your previous post correctly).
There are some car builder games but even those don't go into that level of detail for tuning, and the driving sections of those games suck if it exists at all. Or at least as far as I'm aware.
Replies: >>28458735
Anonymous
6/14/2025, 7:15:16 PM No.28458696
>>28458296 (OP)
>Don't you practically have to tear down and rebuild your gearbox with custom made gears
I assume any team with some money would have a collection of transmissions with different ratios for easy swapping.
Replies: >>28458706
Anonymous
6/14/2025, 7:21:09 PM No.28458706
>>28458696
But crucially those are still packaged sets, and not (easily) individually adjustable ratios as it's presented in the game.
And presumably some dude with a road car wouldn't have that.
Replies: >>28459502
Anonymous
6/14/2025, 7:33:47 PM No.28458735
>>28458651
>But you just edit some numbers,
no you don't, actually. you are adjusting the actual suspension geometry of the simulated vehicle which affects the tire the exact same way it does irl, provided the simulated vehicle and the real vehicle have the same suspension geometry, which i'll admit is often not the case. the numbers you see in some tuning menus are often kind of irrelevant for this reason, what you're actually looking for are measurement proportions, and certain proportions do specific things to the car handling in various situations that are pretty much universal for all 4-wheeled vehicles.
this is why the best alignments are done with a laser machine that can track where the center of the wheels' axis and center of thrust of the car actually is, and even if you have physical alignment tools, adjusting irl cars' alignment is a more analog, involved, and careful process. but you are doing the exact same thing, so you can actually use the sims to plan what you want. hardcore sims like rf or ac really do tell you what you're doing in measurable degrees or inches of adjustment, but it does depend entirely on the author of the content you are playing to have recreated the vehicle correctly.
Replies: >>28458740
Anonymous
6/14/2025, 7:38:53 PM No.28458740
>>28458735
>you are adjusting the actual suspension geometry of the simulated vehicle
And how do you do that?
>adjusting irl cars' alignment is a more analog, involved, and careful process
No game I know of simulates this process.
Replies: >>28458778
Anonymous
6/14/2025, 8:06:51 PM No.28458778
1749528934654701
1749528934654701
md5: 9a56ca908ec5768dfcf0e82e3a81b89d๐Ÿ”
>>28458740
you change the length of the tie rods on the simulated car's suspension geometry, thereby changing the directional bearing of the knuckles and thus the wheels

>No game I know of simulates this process.
every game i have ever played allows you to adjust the suspension to the same degree any human would. i get what you're saying that "no game lets me put the car on a rack and get under it and turn wrenches and blah blah blah" ok but that shit is kind of a waste of time. even when you ARE doing that, you're still adjusting in quarter turns and eight turns, so that you can make sure both sides match up. a sim just simplifies this by giving you discrete clicks of position, though again, in most of the games i've played you can simply adjust how analog you want it to be.
assetto corsa really does have a live-view suspension tuning menu that is most like aligning an actual car on a laser machine, and by default forces you to adjust each corner of a car individually. you can also edit the tuning files of cars to give you precision depth into the thousandths and less without actually changing the cars' physics at all.
Replies: >>28459231
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 12:17:10 AM No.28459231
>>28458778
>you change the length of the tie rods on the simulated car
By editing a number.
>"no game lets me put the car on a rack and get under it and turn wrenches and blah blah blah" ok but that shit is kind of a waste of time
It just means people like me who don't work on cars IRL have no idea what it's like. And then you get threads like this one.
Replies: >>28459265 >>28459377
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 12:44:45 AM No.28459265
>>28459231
>By editing a number.
uh, no anon, by adjusting the tie rod to real life measurements. you don't "edit numbers" please use your big boy words.

>It just means people like me who don't work on cars IRL have no idea what it's like.
i'm an ase certified mechanic and i work on my own car irl
people who pretend they are special just because they can turn a wrench are always the biggest brainlets in the room. doubly so when they try to pretend they know anything about simulating a car.
Replies: >>28459296
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 1:05:40 AM No.28459296
>>28459265
>people who pretend they are special
I don't get the feeling this particularly applies to anyone who replied in this thread.
I just feel like I'm missing an important part of the experience in sim games, when I'm asked to tune a car by changing numbers on submenus. I don't even get to watch AI mechanics carry out the changes requested, or even get a sense of how much time it would take and how much it would cost.
Replies: >>28459306
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 1:15:04 AM No.28459306
>>28459296
>I just feel like I'm missing an important part of the experience in sim games, when I'm asked to tune a car by changing numbers on submenus. I don't even get to watch AI mechanics carry out the changes requested, or even get a sense of how much time it would take and how much it would cost.

that is because it is a car simulator not a people simulator. the kino of wrenching is a treat reserved for real life, in a sim you are concerned only with raw data.
you're also missing the point, i'm saying you can play around with adjustments in the sim that would take hours to nail down irl then when you go and apply the same settings to a real car you only have to do it once. at lemans right now the announcers have mentioned multiple times how several teams have a driver running the race in a simulator in real time so they can try and predict setup changes for the driver who is actually on track. shits a big deal, and if lemans ad nascar teams are doing it you can too.
Replies: >>28459331
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 1:35:13 AM No.28459331
>>28459306
>if lemans ad nascar teams are doing it you can too
But they know what they're doing. I don't. It's ok for them to take shortcuts.
Replies: >>28461669
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 1:45:23 AM No.28459346
ratios
ratios
md5: ac7dc38922d55741abaceedfc3113221๐Ÿ”
I learned a lot from fiddling with the magic gearbox gear ratios in gran turismo 3 and nitto 1320 challenge as a teenager. It's not realistic but it made me interested enough to research it further.
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 2:09:36 AM No.28459377
>>28459231
Nobody would fucking bother with tuning in videogames if it was as annoying as putting the car on a fucking rack or jacks every time, getting wrenches on there, continuously fighting the wrench onto that one nut that's a little fucked up but not so fucked it should be replaced, getting dirt in your eyes, checking everything is tight again, dropping the car back down, blah blah blah. It's a fucking game.
Replies: >>28459403 >>28461774
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 2:22:26 AM No.28459403
>>28459377
So sim racing, arcade tuning.
Replies: >>28461666
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 2:55:46 AM No.28459471
>>28458296 (OP)
yes, some people do this. Some people whose toyotas had a W57 gearbox in them, went so far as to get the 5th/overdrive gear from the W58, which had a lower ratio compared to the W57, allowing for lower engine RPMs at higher speeds.
Anonymous
6/15/2025, 3:22:33 AM No.28459502
>>28458706
You can sort of have that with scooter engines. Maybe not "individual" shifts like you want but you change weights and springs to change how the CVT variates. That's just my 2 cents if you are looking for something IRL to tinker with.
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 11:40:14 AM No.28461663
Forza-Motorsport-Suspension-geometry-tuning-1024x576
>>28458315
I don't know if these anti-geometry and anti-dive settings are even real.
Replies: >>28461668
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 11:41:41 AM No.28461666
>>28459403
oh my god just shut up you retarded spackle eater you have no idea what you're even talking about and have never adjusted an alignment in your entire life
Replies: >>28461740
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 11:42:53 AM No.28461668
>>28461663
of course they are
https://suspensionsecrets.co.uk/anti-squat-dive-and-lift-geometry/
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 11:44:27 AM No.28461669
getgood
getgood
md5: 22cceb351e2a4ea1e8074395461f81f2๐Ÿ”
>>28459331
>But they know what they're doing. I don't.
there is only one (1) way to learn
do it
Replies: >>28461740
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 2:15:04 PM No.28461740
>>28461666
>you have no idea what you're even talking about and have never adjusted an alignment in your entire life
That's the point.

>>28461669
I'd rather learn from playing a game about it.
Replies: >>28461745
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 2:19:17 PM No.28461745
>>28461740
it's turning screws bro not open heart surgery
Replies: >>28461749 >>28461753
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 2:23:00 PM No.28461749
>>28461745
At least hold a protractor up to it.
Replies: >>28461754
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 2:27:42 PM No.28461753
>>28461745
Which screw adjusts the second gear ratio?
Replies: >>28461755
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 2:28:46 PM No.28461754
>>28461749
i use a digital caliper and angle finder i bought from aldi and then i go drive the car to make sure it's pointed straight
always do rears before fronts because front misalignment can make diagnosing what the rear end is doing hard
das it mane
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 2:30:09 PM No.28461755
>>28461753
we're talking about alignment, your insipid question about gear ratios was already answered. don't play stupid games with me.
Replies: >>28461760
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 2:35:19 PM No.28461760
>>28461755
The point is I don't know which settings are easy and which are hard, because the game didn't tell me. As far as the game is concerned all tuning changes are cheap and easy. So I feel justified in calling it "arcade tuning".
Replies: >>28461761
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 2:40:05 PM No.28461761
>>28461760
just do try it you fucking sopping wet vagina jesus christ
google how to do alignment on 2003 toyota corolla or whatever crapcan you have
watch video
collect wrenches
jack up car
fuckin do it, or at least pretend to do it so you know what to do when you do do it good god

why does everybody need a damn powerpoint presentation for lefty loosey righty tighty
Replies: >>28465193
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 2:51:03 PM No.28461774
>>28459377
My summer car does exist.
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 3:15:20 PM No.28461793
>>28458296 (OP)
Always thought the level of gear ratio tuning was far too extreme. Even the average GT3 team can't afford to mess around with infinite ratios for each and every track. They just have a couple different gear sets to use depending on whether it's a high gear or low gear track.
Anonymous
6/16/2025, 3:19:01 PM No.28461799
>>28458315
Spring and damper rates down to decimal points of kgs and single nm units.
Gears !MT5GearsOc
6/16/2025, 4:00:26 PM No.28461840
You don't get infinitissimal control over the gear ratios anyways, since both gears need to maintain a real number of teeth and those determine the ratio.
As a further limit, the two shafts of the transmission have a fixed distance (normally at least), which has to be bridged by the gearset.
That kind of bugs me with the continuously variable gear ratios in GT4 but I guess getting that realistic would have been a real pain in the ass.
Anonymous
6/18/2025, 12:43:18 PM No.28465109
20250618124110_1
20250618124110_1
md5: d7ada36dad1f269687add85010cacb69๐Ÿ”
How complicated is it to adjust steering ratio irl?
Replies: >>28465111
Anonymous
6/18/2025, 12:48:22 PM No.28465111
>>28465109
A steering rack is just a complicated gear set. It's something that might be changed once or twice to the driver's preference then left alone. This would be done either using pre made parts, or having a machinist make a custom gearset if there was no off the shelf solution available.
Replies: >>28465133
Anonymous
6/18/2025, 1:26:26 PM No.28465133
>>28465111
How would one know a preference?
Replies: >>28465147
Gears !MT5GearsOc
6/18/2025, 1:45:22 PM No.28465147
>>28465133
>dude, I have to turn the wheel way too much!
or
>dude this so twichy I can't keep the fucker straight!
Replies: >>28465160
Anonymous
6/18/2025, 2:00:56 PM No.28465160
>>28465147
Both of these can be true at the same time.
Replies: >>28465232
Anonymous
6/18/2025, 2:55:13 PM No.28465193
>>28461761
Because youโ€™re a fag and your mom sucked my dick?
Replies: >>28465636
Gears !MT5GearsOc
6/18/2025, 3:33:37 PM No.28465232
>>28465160
progressive steering ratios exist for that case
plus professional drivers would likely notice if the twitchiness comes from the steering being overly sensitve or from some other setup-issue
Anonymous
6/18/2025, 3:49:01 PM No.28465247
>>28458296 (OP)
Gearing is pretty straightforward to calculate
https://www.boosttown.com/gearbox_differential/speed_calculator.php
Most of the people that mess with the final drive/diff ratio are limited by what ratios are available from other model variants or the aftermarket
On classic Minis for example there are 2 transmission gear sets and 16 (IIRC) diff ratios that cover a massive range to cover 850cc vans and Coopers from the 90s that needed super long gears to pass emissions

>>28458315
For me, it's turning cars with transverse engines and part time AWD into RWD
People really think this would work IRL and I cringe every time
Replies: >>28465817
Anonymous
6/18/2025, 7:34:58 PM No.28465636
>>28465193
mald harder wrenchlet
Anonymous
6/18/2025, 8:46:52 PM No.28465817
>>28465247
There's nothing stopping you from asking a months worth of man hours in money