At the end of the day, EVs just have fewer major parts for manufacturers to fuck up and make defective. I'll give a shit about "soul" when someone else who isn't me is footing the bill for a new alternator.

>>28470958 (OP)
>EV garbo
But see, I'm not a homosexual desu.

>>28470958 (OP)
EVs are objectively superior to ICE apart from charge times. Until they solve that issue or gas is non-existent, ICE rules

>>28470983
Charge time is solved though. You just plug it in at night and it's good to go in the morning

>>28470983
You spend more time at fuel stations with ICE than charge stations with EVs. The latter you keep charged up at home for no extra cost or effort 99% of the time.

Never seen a normal car lock its occupants inside when a fire starts.

>>28470983
Solid state batteries will fix it. Issue with EV for me is I live in an apartment so there is no way to charge every night

Charge time is the biggest non factor in EVs. Comfort, reliability, responsiveness, software integration and of course RANGE are all million times more important. I don't give the slightest shit if 10-80% is done in 15 minutes or 35 minutes. Chances are I'll do one, max two of those charges in my already rare super long distance trips regardless.

>>28471001
It's crazy how nobody died in horrible car fire accidents before EVs....

>>28471007
Not through manufacturers intentionally having them lock their occupants in the vehicle, no.

>>28470998
Like fuck I do. I spend less than 10 minutes a month at the gas stations fueling up my 3 vehicles. Playing musical charge cables would easily exceed that.

Imagine driving a literal grenade that blows up as soon as anything touches it with enough force
>have a minor car accident
>shit explodes at 5000 degrees, effectively vaporizing you in less than 5 seconds

>>28470958 (OP)
>I'll give a shit about "soul" when someone else who isn't me is footing the bill for a new alternator.
Damn right OP. So, what color did you choose for your Equinox EV?

>>28471013
>>28471010
People are far more likely to die in an ICE than EV

https://www.pinfa.eu/news/fire-risks-of-hybrid-ev-and-ice-cars/


>Fire risks of hybrid, EV and ICE cars
Data suggests that hybrid cars are more than twice as likely catch fire as gasoline engine cars, whereas fully electric vehicles show a much lower risk of fire. The information published by is based on US data for 2020 and 2021 from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), the Bureau of Transportation Statistics (BTS) and from recalls.gov. Number of fires per 100 000 cars sold is estimated at around 3 500 for hybrid vehicles, 1 500 for gasoline engine cars and only 25 for fully electric vehicles

>>28471012
How much time do you think it takes to plug a cable in?

>>28471023
Do your parents know about your "lifestyle" choices? They deserve to know if you came out already or not.

>>28470997
Great! So I guess the overwhelming majority of car users who don't own property will just ask their gentle landlord to kindly pay for the home charging infrastructure out of the goodness of their heart you blind retard?

EVs are dead I love when brown animals make these cope threads

>>28470958 (OP)

Yeah but the problem is they add so much in the way of electronics that any advantages in simplicity are offset by other bullshit.

I don't give two shits about fucking EVs vs ICE; EV performance is fantastic. The problem is that charging is fucking awful and I don't want to wait 30 minutes for 300 miles.

>But you can plug it in at home

Nigger if I have to fucking travel 1000 miles to evacuate for a natural disaster I don't want to have to add in hours of charging time. When I can charge 300 miles in 5 minutes I'll consider an EV, or if I can get a single charge with 1500-2000 miles. Either one is fine, and until that happens fuck you I'm buying an ICE.

>>28470997
>just revolve your life around charge times for your car
Retard.

>>28471027
Thou mad

https://www.yallamotor.com/news/ev-vs-ice-in-a-car-crash:-which-is-safer--53021

>According to a study by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS), EVs have lower fatality rates in crashes compared to ICE vehicles, largely due to their inherent design advantages and safety technologies.

>>28471038
>mad
nta but I'm not a left wing redditor cultist this don't mean shit

>>28471042
Funny how safety is so important for ICE fags until disproven and suddenly safety is for "left wing redditor cultists". Just admit you're poor and can't afford a good EV

>>28471045
>disproven
Nigga all you did was type "EVs are safer" into google. I don't have a subhuman brain like you, you gotta understand.

>>28471038
this >>28471042 is not me >>28471027.

Stop it with the gay shit though bro.

>>28470962

>desu

Newfag detected

>>28471051
What do you think nta means you dumbass?

>>28471054

>nta

Reddit shit.

>>28471056
How ironic

What a bunch of faggots ITT man...

>>28471056
>not that anon is reddit shit

>>28470958 (OP)
wow op thanks for making this ev discussion thread however I need you to add a tripcode and also link your reddit account.

>>28471028
Other people not having homes isn't my problem.

>>28471023
Very nice industry and government article promoting the evs promoted by both industry and government

I'd rather have a pedalcar/four wheel bike than an ev but those are illegal here lol

>>28471148
>its illegal
Which is all the evidence you need EVs are complete and utter dogshit compared to ICE vehicles

>>28471025
but still sitting and waiting for the car to charge takes more time than just filling up gas which is instant. Especially if you’re out on a road trip, waiting for the car to charge can be annoying. IMO ice for longer drives but EV for short distance daily use

>>28471023
Moving goalposts

>>28471147
The traditional car industry and the massive petrol industry hate EV over ICE.

>>28471184
Right, but most people aren't taking a 250+ mile road trip regularly.

>>28471431
You're coping. Most people don't want to center their life around gay ass charging stations you fuckin idiot

>>28471141
So you agree then that EVs aren't the future. Thanks pal!

>>28471184
>>28471451
So everyone should drive gas cars because sometimes they might need to drive more than 250 miles in a day. Should we all drive diesel dually pickups just in case we ever need to tow something? Should we all drive full size 3 row SUVs just in case we maybe have more than 3 passengers? At what point does "at some point in the future this might mildly inconvenience me" stop being a reasonable excuse for buying something?

>>28471033
No more than revolving your life around when you sleep.

The other guy is right about renters. They’re a drag on society and should be executed.

>>28471489
Landlords are the drag, not renters.

>>28471430
ok so the ones that do like ev and hate ice made the article
is there something I'm missing? You said nothing relevant

>>28471886
Do you think you're sounding smart now, lil' poo in loo?

>>28471924
>explain why a source is biased
<heh but some other people would make a source that was biased in the other direction
>but the source you posted is biased in the way I said it was biased and not in that other direction
<you're just a jeet or something!!! waah waah!!!!
I guess if you wanna call me a jeet I'll call you a kike, kike.

>>28470958 (OP)
I don't understand why EVs have so high insurance costs but I reckon it's because they

1, don't have mandatory yearly services like ICEs

2, Generally come with fast acceleration increasing the risks of accidents

3, If the battery sustains a damage, it's a very expensive replacement.

It would be interesting to see how much an EV owner spends on service + insurance + maintenance + tires compared to a comparable ICE of similar horse power. Even taking fuel economy out of the equation, I guess EVs are way cheaper to own.

>>28471025
More time than you think. If I have 3 vehicles and I'm constantly coming and going with them that 10 seconds it takes to plug or unplug one starts to add up.

>>28470958 (OP)
Less parts is a bad thing for maintenance you retard

>>28472123
That depends on how likely those fewer parts are to break down since of course they're likely far more expensive than a huge quantity of components. From what I've read about decent quality EVs, their fewer components very rarely break down and expensive battery swaps are an anomaly for most owners. Most brands offer 8 year warranty on battery, which IMO isn't that particularly long but it's just a show of confidence in the components. I think Tesla is so confident in their components that they don't even mandate regular service intervals either.

>>28472127
You need to up your meds.

>>28472129
nta, but
>reliability survey
>counts engine/transmission fault the same as a slightly loose piece of interior trim
like, come on.
tesla has consistently scored highest marks in customer satisfaction and "would you buy this car/brand again" surveys. that doesn't happen if there's shit seriously wrong with the cars.

>>28471674
t. Renter/poor person

Irregardless (lol), while EV’s may be viable on their own, everyone is right about the infrastructure issue. Only ~65% of homes in the US are owner-occupied. That includes apartments.

>>28472155
its fairly obvious that the whole "apartment charging infra" thing is a chicken and egg problem
landlords won't install charger infra unless a sizeable portion of renters become EV owners first.
and a sizeable portion of renters won't become EV owners if they can't charge at home first.

there is no solution to chicken and egg problems without external intervention. in this case, the external intervention needed is a law mandating (or at least incentivizing/subsidizing) the installation of power outlets in apt. building garages.

>EVs just have fewer major parts for manufacturers to fuck up and make defective
I doubt that is true, but also, you can't have the shit fixed in small local shops or do it yourself. You're essentially driving a black box of expensive magic at that point.

>>28471463
>Should we all drive diesel dually pickups just in case we ever need to tow something? Should we all drive full size 3 row SUVs just in case we maybe have more than 3 passengers?
You're trying to make a point but there are way too many people who unironically think like this and waste tons of money on gas driving a massive truck because they have a boat that they tow 5 miles to the lake once a year

>>28472186
>you can't have the shit fixed in small local shops or do it yourself
on the contrary, given the absurd reliability of the actual drivetrain, the only things you might encounter are exactly the sort of things anyone can DIY
the self-opening charge port mechanism, the handles that come out when the car is unlocked, the occasional loose piece of interior trim that rattles, those are exactly the sort of things you can manage in your driveway, without a lift, without 3 cabinets of specialized tools and without 10 years experience working on cars from this brand specifically.
on the ICE side tho, how the fuck are you going to deal with a leaky rear main seal by yourself? how are you going to diagnose a misfire if the ecu is locked down? how are you going to remove carbon buildup from a DI engine?

EVs aren't black boxes. they're extremely simple. there's a motor, there's a battery, there's wires going between them and a cooling system that connects them. period.
the software that controls all the parts might be inaccessible, but that's a problem with all modern cars, and at least with EVs you don't really need access to it to fix the stuff that does actually break.

>>28471028
Stop being a whiny faggot, get a job and buy a house

>>28470997
>what are road trips
>charging more frequently than necessary
EV is fucked until you can pull into a charging station and get out in under 10 minutes on the road

>>28472326
guys, no one tell him about megawatt charging. his poor little gas powered heart can't take it

>>28470958 (OP)
>EVs just have fewer major parts for manufacturers to fuck up and make defective

What? You're joking, right?

>>28472339
that is 1 (one) part.

>>28472344
So if the whole car was one giant block that you can only replace but not service, it would be the ideal car?

As a homeowner I could spend the money to get an upgraded, unstadardized by NFPA, charge system put in and probably spend less on fuel. But as a panel operator who floated batteries and know that any single cell can buttfuck the whole device, I get it, Tesla has per cell monitors, but I'm just not comfortable relying on batteries. I'd take a hybrid though.

Evs have one big component that fucks up. Alternator? Usually hundred bucks and hour of your time

>>28472355
>eductio ad absurdum
obviously not, don't be a cunt.

nobody bothers trying to replace individual components on circuit boards anymore. you replace the board in its entirety. if the car in question is less than 20 years old or so, that won't be a problem, 99% chance the part is available.

if its significantly older, the part might be NLA and you may be SOL. emphasis on "may".
you can always hunt for used parts on ebay or in junkyards. and, if the car was popular (or rather, popular as a collector's car), you may be able to find 3rd party replacements, or 3rd party refurbishment, or 3rd party individual components.

only in that very last scenario are you actually expected to go in and do the chip replacing/resoldering/etc on your own. and this is a very exceptional situation, most definitely an absolute last resort, and well past the realm of typical maintenance/restoration work.

plus, the entire argument is completely spurious, as ICE cars aren't exactly light on electronics and computers and stuff.

>>28472344
One part, made of other tiny parts, each with the potential to brick your EV, and all made by the lowest bidder.
Have another 1 (one) part, that failed because of another 1(one) part being made by the cheapest supplier.

EV's have the same problem as any other car. They're built to an ever decreasing standard to maximize profits.
Not to deliver a better product.

>>28472368
anon, EVs have at least an order of magnitude fewer parts than ICEs. and the parts they do have are in their vast majority non-moveable, and certainly not exposed to insane pressures, temperatures or chemicals.
the most fallible components of EVs are the ones they share with every other car, the suspension, the brakes, the drive shaft, etc.

you're correct that all cars, EVs as well, are built to maximize profit, but that is not an argument against EVs, its an argument in favor of them. again, fewer parts, especially fewer movable parts, means less potential for something to go wrong.

>>28472376
They DO NOT have fewer parts. I work (worked) on them. What they do have is fewer mechanical parts. But their component count and resultant complexity is higher, and on a scale that is not easily grasped. As a result when a SMC in one of the many control modules fails, or is damaged due to water intrusion because of some other second or third party supplier cutting corners, you're just as dead in the water as if your MAF or TPS shit the bed.
You're looking at mechanical components being the only failing point. I'm telling you they are not. Most of the issues you deal with in an EV are small components that decide to leak the chinesium out and cause entire modules to need replacement.
Calling an EV "simpler" is nonsense, bordering on disingenuous. You're just shuffling your potential failure points to a smaller scale. You're trading a transmission output shaft bearing for a FET on a motor controller board, that's potted in epoxy.

>>28472326
You fucks make it sound like you go on weekly road trips. We all know it's maximum one or two per year. And even then, there are electric chargers everywhere these days. A 20 minute stop in a five hour journey is not a deal breaker.

>>28472339
Sounds like a very normal motherboard. What's the issue?

>>28472395
Put your motherboard in a vibratory parts tumbler and let it go for a 30 minute "drive" and then see what fell off. Or maybe expose it to a few 24 hour heat cycles, varying between 0C and 125C, and see if it still works.
That a motor controller even works as well as it does considering the environment and abuse they see, coupled with the decreasing quality of the components used in them is a miracle in and of itself.

>>28472409
You all make it sound like EVs are ticking time bombs but despite all this supposed stress to the components, why do so extremely few EVs break down? Why do we have so many 2015 Teslas that still do fine with 20,000 miles on the clock?

>>28472390
>fewer mechanical parts
exactly. which are the ones that are most likely to fail.

>But their component count and resultant complexity is higher
the cpu in my phone is likely the most complicated piece of technology in my home. but its still ONE FUCKING PART, for all intents and purposes. if it fails, i will replace it. or could, at least. more likely, i'll replace the phone, because its not worth going through all that trouble.
next most complex is the cpu in my pc. and guess what, ITS THE SAME. if it fails, ill replace it. given that in this case the replacement is way easier and that the pc contains other valuable components, if it were to fail, i'd indeed just get a replacement and not throw the entire thing out.

>when a SMC in one of the many control modules fails
you replace the offending board/module
as 1 part. despite the fact that its actually made up of 10s/100s of tiny individual parts. same as the cpus in my phone and computer.

>Calling an EV "simpler" is nonsense
its not. a first year electrical engineering student can assemble a simple electrical motor from base components. he can probably make a controller for one, too (if not, certainly a 2nd year could). and the control software for same can be written in a day. i made a robotic snake from 3d printed parts, a few brushless motors and an arduino in college. for a class. took like 3-4 hours, most of which was spend setting up the CPG, doing pid control of the motors was the easy part.

the actual complexity lies in the chemistry of the batteries, in heavily optimized circuit boards and software. and all 3 of them are not a concern because batteries and circuit boards are replaced wholesale as one part, and the software is as yet fully proprietary and inaccessible.

so, from an end user standpoint, an ev is exceedingly simple. if the battery fails, you replace it. if a motor fails, same. if you get an electrical fault in some control module, you replace said module. that is it.

>>28472418
>Why do we have so many 2015 Teslas that still do fine with 20,000 miles on the clock?
Are you missing a zero there? Otherwise, this is an absurdly low amount of mileage for 10 years, wtf.

>>28472425
nta but yes, he certainly meant to have an extra zero in there

for anons who want to see an example of such, whatcar recently had a range test video with a bunch of EVs, and the selection included a '12 model S with 250k miles on it. og motors(iirc, not 100%) and battery(definitely, 100%). it performed flawlessly and managed almost exactly 200miles. on a pleasant spring day, mind you, so definitely less in adverse conditions, but still, not bad for a 14 year old EV.

>>28472418
I'm a mechanic.
All machines are ticking time bombs.

>why do so extremely few EVs break down?

Other than they being an extremely small and relatively unreported part of the totality of automotive vehicles?
Tesla made what, 40,000, 50,000 vehicles in 2015? How many are still on the road?
That same year Toyota made ~ 10 Million vehicles.
What ratio of either, is still in use?
They break down, you just don't see the same volume of complaints simply because they represent a nigh microscopic segment of the automotive market.

>>28471028
>poorfag non home owner cope
>>28472326
>muh i go on a 1000 mile road trip every 3 days cope
Man the (((oil lobby))) is getting pathetic

>>28472424
Again, all you're doing is shuffling your scaling of complexity and components. It's not "more reliable" or "simpler" that's just a facade because you're replacing components that you perceive to be simpler, when in fact they are not.

>>28472444
weak bait.

>>28472439
It goes to show that even in the early prototype stages, older EVs aren't having the mass malfunctions and battery breakdowns as once foretold by the traditionalists. It didn't happen. Most older EVs even with 10 year old batteries are almost at the same capacity now as then. The great degradation never happened. Even if they were few in quantity, they were still extremely expensive cars. There would have been more noise if those cars with an early expiry date.

>>28472409
Why are the circuit boards that control my EV's motors and battery constantly falling apart just from driving around but the ones that control my 20 year old car's infotainment system still working perfectly fine?

>>28471056
kek are you fucking retarded, you just outed yourself

>>28472462
You're assigning a lack of data/insufficient data regarding their reliability as proof of reliability.

>>28472463
Maybe because the contractor who made the components in your car's components 20 years ago got some decent components that were competently assembled.

Lucky You.

>>28472448
>Nooo, you can't fill the tank with gasoline, akshually gas is isooctane, butane, 3-ethyltoluene and fucktonnes of other components

>>28472448
>all you're doing is shuffling your scaling of complexity and components
no, im simply viewing the matter from the practical perspective.
from a practical perspective, a circuit board is 1 part, regardless of its internal complexity.

>It's not "more reliable"
of course its more reliable. the worst a circuit board has to endure is (relatively) mild heat cycles and possibly some moisture.
a rod bearing has to do a billion miles worth of rotations on a forged steel crank, while being pummeled by the force of combustion every 4th stroke. pistons and piston rings have to do a trillion miles worth of rubbing on cylinder walls, while subjected to temperatures of hundreds of degrees and pressures of hundreds of psis. you have timing chains and their guides, valves and their cams, gaskets, channels, belts and hoses, all of them being subjected to much worse than a circuit board will ever see, and many of them capable of dynamiting the whole lot if they fail.
and you can bet your ass they are subject to the same pressure to optimize for cost that the transistors of the board are. and you can also bet your ass that they have much less in the way of fail safes to shut the whole thing down if something goes wrong. if a circuit board shits itself, the next one will notice within a millisecond and sound the alarm. if a link in your timing chain fails, its all over.

look, the fact that EVs are more reliable, at least in terms of drivetrain, is generally accepted, theoretically expected and empirically observed. just search /r/teslamotors for reports of drivetrain faults and compare the number of findings with similar searches for literally any brand that makes ICEs.
EVs get a bad rap in reliability surveys because those count stupid build quality issues like panel gaps and loose interior trim the same as drivetrain failures. that is all.

>>28472493
Sure you can.
Chances are, your engine won't give two fucks what you're putting in the tank as long as it's not eating up the fuel system and reasonably close to the same octane rating needed by the mill.

Not sure what point you were trying to make.

>>28472492
>You're assigning a lack of data/insufficient data regarding their reliability as proof of reliability.
There isn't a lack of data. Thousands of old Teslas have been sold. Any defect ratio of note would have made itself clear by now. Even a 0.1% defect ratio would result in a significant amount of dysfunctional 2014-2016 Teslas.

>>28472504
You've merely performed some mental gymnastics to justify your concept of "simplicity", and "reliability".

Not sure why you are glazing EV's so much, they are as much a contrivance prone to failure as the (poorly) described reciprocating engine in your post.
Simply because a gaggle of self described "EV Experts" decided to huff each-other's verbal flatulence and proclaim them to be superior to other forms of automotive transportation is foolishness.
Have another failed EV motor I replaced, as my gift to you.

>>28472518
Then kindly post some, instead of saying "IT EXISTS I TELLS YA!".

https://www.reddit.com/r/whatcarshouldIbuy/comments/1d7pa25/be_aware_of_tesla_car_reliability/

Since another anon already posted redditry, here is what a very brief googles vomited forth for me.

>>28472519
that's a lot of words to say
>you're wrong because i say so, ok

and thanks for the pic, it helps to prove my point.
hey, other anons, look at that pic. there's only 1 moving part in it, and it makes more hp than a malaise era v8.

>>28472538
Kek.
Sure.
Whatever helps you sleep at night, skippy.

>>28472532
as mentioned already, tesla evs score low in reliability survey because of silly build quality issues. the drivetrains are extremely solid.
also be aware that since elon bought twitter and especially after he started supporting musk, reddit, being the hive of faggotry and leftistry (pleonasm, i know), has taken a massively anti-elon and anti-tesla swing. so, yea, don't look there for unbiased takes on the matter.

>>28470958 (OP)
except the one really big one that costs like 30 fucking grand to replace

>>28470997
And what if I want to charge in the middle of nowhere? EVs are for toy cars for domesticated urbanoid cattle to play inside their enclosure. They're worthless outside of cities.

Oh no, a $125 alternator replacement at 150k miles! How horrifying!

>>28472598
>And what if I want to charge in the middle of nowhere?
the same thing that happens if you run out of gas in the middle of nowhere: you get help, or you die.

also, its a pretty retarded hypothetical, since EVs make a point of telling you how much range you have and where you can stop to charge and all that. if you can't make the next leg of your journey by a long shot, you'll know before you start it.
even if you're a retard and you try to hypermile to the next charging station and fail, you're not gonna run out of charge in the middle of nowhere, you're gonna run out a few miles before wherever that next stop was.

>They're worthless outside of cities
not at all.
they're pretty worthless if you need to tow. that's about it.
also kinda boring, because they all basically feel the same in terms of driving dynamics. instant torque and lots of it, low CoM, etc etc. its not bad, but its always pretty much the same.

>>28472619
the problem isn't the $125 dollar alternator (which isn't $125 but lets ignore that for now).
the problem is that there's a shitload of parts like the alternator that may fail. and they all cost money, and they all cost labor to replace. unless you DIY, in which case they cost time and $ for tools and you better have a garage to do the work in.
but wait, if you have a garage, doesn't that mean you can get an EV and charge at home and save shitloads of $ on fuel and maintenance/repairs?
why, yes, it does, anon. yes it does.

>>28472598
I don't know what to tell you man. If so much of your life revolves around being able to drive 700 miles a day through the desert without stopping then an EV just isn't the right car for you. Don't buy one.

>>28472639
I assume you've never seen schematics for a Tesla? I'm on a phone rn but the cooling system alone is insane. Gas engines really aren't that complicated.

>>28472645
doesn't seem too bad.
more complicated than the cooling system in an ICE, but since the rest of the car around it is so simple, it should be easy to work on.

i recently saw a video from legitstreetcars where he had to pull an engine and tranny from his cl65, and disassemble it to the block (not the block itself, just all bolt-ons and heads), just to replace a single faulty o-ring in the coolant system. mercedes, in their infinite wisdom, made it so that taking the manifold off wasn't enough, you also had to remove the heads. he claimed this repair would've cost at least $5k in an independent shop, assuming ofc you found one willing to tackle a big ass biturbo v12. the faulty part itself was $1.

>>28472643
this. buy the vehicle that meets your use case. 95% of my driving is commuting, and i have a normal sleep schedule, so an ev makes sense for me. i wouldn't by a tractor to commute to work.

>>28472660
Now try that, but with a Miata. Everything is right there, a kid could take it apart. It's not my fault people think more equals better. It's also not my fault that we've been making engines more complex just to give people things to do at work... Maybe if we kept things simple... Oh fuck it's a fantasy now.

>>28472507
>Sure you can
So you can treat it as a single thing, despite it being made of many smaller components.
Then you should also treat motherboard as one component.
But somehow same logic doesn't apply in both cases. No wonder why you don't understand the point.

>>28472698
and if we scale things down to a single cyl 2 stroke motorbike, ofc maintenance gets very easy and cheap.
the point is that EVs by their nature are very simple machines and very reiable machines. yes, as the other anon has pointed out, there's a lot of hidden complexity in software and circuit boards and stuff, but that doesn't matter to the end user.
a miata owner will need to replace his rear main seal at some point. if its an ND, he'll also need to deal with carbon buildup. a model 3 owner will likely spend his entire ownership of the car only ever needing to refresh suspension components and brakes. which the miata owner will also need, ofc. tho, granted, the model 3 owner will likely need new tires more frequently. the miata isn't exactly a burnout monster.

>>28472645
The cooling system on my PC is also insane but it has never given me much trouble regardless.

>>28472718
>EVs by their nature are very simple machines
They are more complicated than ICE in my opinion. And they don't even make their own power, they just store and dump power made elsewhere.
The abstraction from the machine is the core of their marketing, but EVs are more rube goldberg than ICEV.

>>28472132
Tesla also has "come work for us for free" events so I really wouldn't go by their customer satisfaction results.

>>28472738
>And they don't even make their own power, they just store and dump power made elsewhere.
and gasoline dint magically appear either. it's the result of organic matter that got compressed underground for a million years. we're just making use of the destruction that happened long ago.

If EVs are so great, why do they lose value so fast?

>>28473829
Do they though? I see used Teslas and Polestars with extreme price tags still. Used EVs still cost way more than comparable ICE. Of course since MSRP is higher, the total drop will seem more significant than a comparable ICE sold for less but suffering the same drop in percentage.

>>28470958 (OP)
Agreed

>>28473829
It depends on what it is. The upper level ones like the Model S and Taycan do not sedans at that price point always do. Even then if you look at the Taycan vs the panamera there's not a huge difference.
A 40k Camry XSE and a 40k M3LR are both between about 23-26k after 5 years 60k miles.

>>28472106
Insurance is only high because the biggest EV supplier (tesla) and the insurance companies are both disfunctional faggots.

Tesla labor rates are double standard body work.
Tesla will not sell parts to shops that are not Tesla certified and have a very annoying and expensive certification process. This is why shops can charge more for repairs and insurance companies will get you to pay for it.
(Other brands like Audi and Landrover are also started to do this, so good luck in the future with that ICE fags)
Insurance also still acts like EVs are alien technology and some still don’t even offer EV coverage, meaning insurance that does can increase the price.

That all said, the impact is actually still pretty minimal. Your typical EV insurance rate is probably going to be similar to something like a Camaro, it’s not really that different at the end of the day.
For most insurance premiums, collision and comprehensive are often less than half of the total rate. Most of what you pay goes to liability and uninsured motorists. Aka you pay the most for uninsured drivers.
So if you want to actually lower your insurance premiums, submit tips to ICE.