Every single time I buy a "water-proof" "breathable" jacket it turns out it's neither.
Meanwhile I've hiked in a constant rain for 5 hours wearing a traditional wool sweater and the water didn't get through. Felt a lot nicer than wearing plastic, too.
In a test I did, my dad's old leather jacket is more water-proof than a modern hardshell I still own.

So basically, I'm set for the upper body, with wool or leather depending on the temperature, and a merino base layer. Only thing I'm struggling with is finding a solution for the legs, using natural fiber.
Cotton is shit. Leather pants are gay. Any ideas? What did the pioneers wear? Should I try out tweed?

>>2822195 (OP)
If you want legit water proof don't go with the breathable liners but go with a polyurethane coated layer. I use rain gear pro. It's durable too as its 400 denier nylon with a pu coating. should last 10-15 years of good use. The commercial fishing stuff like Grunden is the PU coated too. They don't breathe though. Rain gear pro has a few areas that should allow ventilation but i'd rather use a polycotton (cs95 surplus) with tech wash for potential light rain instead and hold out the rain gear pro for for sure rain. There was a tailor in idaho that did a 1000 denier pu coated nylon. the problem with pu coating though is it will wear out after 10-15 years so you can possibly find a way to recoat/impregnate the fabric with silicon but not sure how well it would work.
If you are going the natural route i'd get a swanndri and run it through a heavy amount of lanolin wool wash because its the sheep oil (lanolin) that makes it water resistant and not the wool itself. It's a similar principle to how your beard will just wick water off your bottom lip and in record time deposit it off your face (and into your shirt) because the beard oils work in a similar fashion. New Zealand where Swanndri comes from has crazy weather. The OG Swanndris from a century ago where one size fits all cause the founder would just dump the fabric in a tub and shrink it as much as possible so it was boiled wool loaded with lanolin. It worked until synthetics took over everything.

>>2822258
as for pants, i typically just use polycotton. it gets wet but it dries fast. only case i wouldnt use it for is driving sideways rain or sitting like on a boat. I use loose polycotton so the fabric is touching my skin as little as possible. a kilt here would work too. you can also just get the 400 denier pants i mentioned before as pants or chaps if you need it for that. where i live is in pacific northwest so we get constant rain but its usually light.
if you're going wool then just find some surplus wool pants. you're going to be hard pressed to find good wool pants for cheap now outside of that unless you skulk your good will or buy surplus. the finnish wool is good but i hated the fit. the old west german wool pants are good, the swedish are my favorite, swiss is good but hard to find anything bigger then size 28 waist

I still don't understand why nobody is making mechanically ventilated jackets. It's so simple.

>>2822195 (OP)
I found this, haven't tried them.
>https://hilltrek.co.uk/clothing/trousers/
Else, you can hike in shorts and gaiters in temperate weather, skin dries faster than fabric.

>>2822195 (OP)
If i see someone dressed like this on the trails im stealing their wallet

>>2822195 (OP)
>What did the pioneers wear?
Wool.

ok serious question, can you put waterproof jackets with gortex lining into machine wash at low with no detergent? worried it’ll mess up the waterproofing bc i’ve been hand scrubbing off mud and etc for a while but i wonder if it’s more convenient to just put it in the washing machine.

>>2822195 (OP)
Synthetics are a meme and almost NEVER work in terms of clothing
>Wool
>Cotton
>Leather
>Linen
>Canvas
Are the only materials any of your clothes should be made out of with the exception of rubber for your shoes.

I just wear regular unlined rain jackets and -pants over a wool layer if it's raining. The wool layer stays warm even if it gets wet from the condensation on the inside. Piss cheap, so when they eventually tear too badly to patch, I'll chuck them out and buy new ones.
I have two waxed cotton jackets, and one waxed cotton coat. They're more comfortable to wear than rain jackets, but to my mind they're way too heavy for wearing with a bigger pack on. Mostly use them when I'm out hunting and don't carry much more than a gun and a small pack, or if I'm just out walking the dog.
(Double) Ventile cotton is supposed to be good, but I haven't tried it personally. It doesn't seem terribly heavy if you can use it as both regular pants and rain pants.

>>2822697
You can. The only thing that might get scratched is the DWR coating, what makes the water run off instead of pooling. I think Nikwax makes a detergent that cleans jackets and somehow reapplies the DWR, but it's all a little too technical for me.

>>2822698
What about polyester and it's moisture-wicking capabilities?

>>2822195 (OP)
I like jeans, so I wear them with cotton "thermals" as we call them. And that combo keeps me feeling happy enough in the dull rainy climate of the UK.

Sometimes it seems interesting how much thought people put into materials/breathability/layering with clothing. Just chuck on what you're comfortable with and get on with it, I say.

>>2822195 (OP)
>a traditional wool sweater and the water didn't get through.
Doubt.
I've done the same a few dozen times, and the water always got through. It's just that you don't feel cold, because the water seeps through so slowly and the wool insulates so well that the water is warm by the time it reaches the skin.

>leather jacket is more water-proof than a modern hardshell
Yeah, but leather is just as sweaty inside. I ride a bike all year, and the leather keeps me dry even in storms, but walking a few 100m in it will make me sweat terribly. For hiking, stick with wool unless you need the extra protection leather provides.

>solution for the legs, using natural fiber.
Cotton denim. With a loose cut, the cotton rarely comes into contact with the skin, negating the one disadvantage cotton has (its terrible insulation when wet).
You could also buy wool pants, but they will rip much quicker when walking through thorns.
My outdoor pant setups are all denim (for hiking) or cotton-synthetic-mixes (for biking, bcs. of the abrasion resistance UMWPE gives) on the outside, and merino longjohns on the inside when it's cold.
>Leather pants are gay.
All of southern Germany disagrees, faggot.

>>2822260
There are plenty of companies. In southern Asia, it's common work equipment for gardeners.

There is no such thing as a fully waterproof and fully breathable garment. One property always sacrifices the other.

>I've hiked in a constant rain for 5 hours wearing a traditional wool sweater and the water didn't get through.
Mega doubt

Avoid anything Goretex for your own safety

Make sure whatever you wear has armoit zips


Accept that if you’re in a storm you WILL be wet at some point

>>2822918
What's wrong with Goretex?

>>2822195 (OP)
I prefer my melton wool jacket for rainy weather, but you're fooling yourself if you think you won't get wet in a heavy rain. The benefit is that even if (and when) you do get wet, it will still keep you warm (assuming you have a wool base layer on as well), unlike synthetics, which inevitably fail. The only down side is that they take forever to dry.

>>2822195 (OP)
What's wrong with a Frogg Togg?

>>2822697
you can soak it and toss by hand on like real low deterg...like...use lye soap

wear a glove maybe

need to burn layers sweating

>>2822907
I am Southern German, that's how I know it's gay.

>>2823061
Fun fact: When the first bavarian walked through town in his gay leather shorts, the locals laughed at him. When he tried to enter a church, he was expelled for public indecency.

>>2822697
Why use water at all? let it dry, take a stiff brush, and the mud should come right off.
>>2823061
Ein Landsmann? Auf VierChan?
Anyways, Leather shorts are fucking comfy, as long as you don't fall for that polyurethane Oktoberfest crap. Silnylon is much worse, and tends to look like it's straight out of a fetish porn movie.

>>2822195 (OP)
You have to keep in mind, by "breathable" they simply mean more breathable than rubber. That being said, I 've never had an issues with a gortex jacket. They have always kept me dry- even under pack straps

>ITT
>People who think professional outdoorsmen and soldiers got it all wrong and they, personally, found the secret to rain protection
Goretex may not be 100% breathable, but it keeps you dry reliably, unlike wool (of any kind). It's also not harmful to the wearer (the environment is another matter), that's paranoia.

>>2823088
>but it keeps you dry reliably
No it doesn't.

>muh milsurp
Military gear is optimized for mass production, not comfort or reliability.

>>2822195 (OP)
You can get an oil skin canvas coat with a wool liner, or wear a wool coat underneath. You'll be water proof and be warm.

>>2822909
can you give some examples? ive never heard of mechanical ventilation... unless you mean opening pit zips or other vents

>>2822909
>>2823117
nvm just googled it

>>2823095
>No it doesn't.
yes it does

>>2823196
The fact that you actually believe this just proves that you're a fair weather hiker and have barely used your gear. Gortex gets saturated in heavy rain eventually just like everything else.

>>2823117
Imagine 2-4 CPU fans attached to your jacket right on top of the belt, blowing air into it. Belt and neck are closed tight, so the air goes up yur torso and out at your wrists. if you HAVE to wear full-body clothing (working in snake-infested jungle, for example) it's a way to avoid heatstroke.

>>2823088
Fuck you.

I fucking hate LARPers and /his/ browsers that think GO MILSURP STORE is the answer to everything because military cool!! weapons cool!!! if something military that mean it good! military grade!!!!!!111!

Like the other anon said. The US Military buys things that are cheap, mass produced, and at a minimum quality standard, NOT things that are top of the line. What they spend money on is weapons to kill your LARPing autistic ass when you show up to protest that all the national parks are being closed due to lack of staff, but not on actual good quality gear.

Goretex leaks poison into nature, and hopefully, into your deformed brain. This is a known thing.

Fuck you. And not in the funny gachi way. Fuck you.

>>2823270
>US Military buys things that are cheap, mass produced, and at a minimum quality standard, NOT things that are top of the line.
Fully agree, but remember that most civilian companies sell crap that doesn't even meet minimum standards, bcs they know most customers aren't going to use it anyways. When you can't afford much, milsurp is generally the better choice.

And if you know what you're looking for, you can get good gear much cheaper from milsurp, too - for example, my silnylon tarp is from the UK military, and cost 10% of what a civilian costs. You just need to know what you're getting, same as with civilian gear.

>>2822864
Albeit thats true and may be important in cold weather
>begins to smell extremely quickly
>microplastics

>>2823095
Yes it does, you retard.
>>2823200
The outter fabric gets saturated, but no water gets through the membrane.
>>2823025
Sorry anon, this thread is for larping, not serious answers.
>>2823010
Not Goretex itself. The membrane is made of PTFE which requires the use of PFOAs and PFAS which are toxic and poison water supplies.

>>2822258
Itd be nice to have both, a poly lined hood, back and sholders with breathable but well treated sleeves and front.

>>2822258
The old timers didn't wear thdir swannies in pouring rain. They wore their oil skins.

>>2823095
>>2823270
>Muh milsurp
I never suggested you get milsurp, idiots. Gear ages, tech advances. It was merely as an example of people who can't afford to wear poor gear on a mission (specops guys wear goretex too btw.)
Also you mate need to get back on your meds, this kind of temper isn't healthy.

>>2823339
>OH WOW SPECOPS

I hate you. I really really hate you. Turn off call of duty, pour your soda down the drain, and go the FUCK outside you FFFFFUCCKINNGGG LARPER.

>>2823340
You need to touch grass, I hear it helps with irrational anger.

2823344
oh so you're worse than a larper, you're intentionally being retarded. you wont farm any more yous off me, i will not open the thread again. i really hope something horrible happens to you, and then you wont be able to pay the healthcare bill, and then you end up dying in a ditch. AND you get ticks on you too.

forgot to also tell you, because you're a goretex shill that wants to self-justify because he spent 300 dollars on a raincoat he never wears outside, that i hope some of your fat rolls end up necrotic

>>2823357
>and then you wont be able to pay the healthcare bill
Peak american insults.

>>2823373
And I hope you get fired for not loving Israel enough

>>2822195 (OP)
>Is synthetic rain gear a meme?
fuck no.
get a silpoly rain jacket or a dcf rain jacket if you want the big boy shit that's literally impermeable under normal conditions.
they don't breathe so you have to rely on mechanical venting. i recommend the timmermade megazip, or ripping off his design and making your own if you live somewhere you can't get one.
systems like the packa are also a solid choice, i see boomers with them a lot around here.
silpoly is way more waterproof than waxed cotton but way less of a health risk and environmental blight than membrane style goretex type jackets. if you fuck the jacket up and throw it away its about as bad for the planet as a couple tee shirts from temu. if you throw a gore tex one away its going to be here until the heat death of the universe and its poisonous.

>Every single time I buy a "water-proof" "breathable" jacket it turns out it's neither.
those kind are. don't fall for that meme. here i live in one of the rainiest parts of the world and i'm going to let you in on a few secrets:
- breathable membrane type jackets only work in specific humidity ranges. if the weather isn't like california then fuck you they don't work.
- breathable membranes only breathe WHEN THEY ARE DRY. when its wet they don't do shit. when its not raining just take your damn jacket off.
- breathable membranes wet out under serious downpours. they're only for mild bitch weather and day hikers.
- they require constant treatment with pfas forever chemicals that will fuck your hormones up cause balding etc from skin contact, and there's no way to get it out of your body.
- they're fucking horrible for the environment.

>>2823088
>>2823339
the last place i would ever look for rain jackets or sleeping gear is from a milsurp place, except maybe some of the bivys. those are some of the main things soldiers complain about being shit along with the boots. and they are shit.

>>2823303
if you can't afford much then wear frog toggs ul2's. they are some of the best rain gear you can get and they are $30 online or walmart. literally THE most popular rain jacket among long distance backpackers. they don't breathe so make sure they fit big and loose.
upside: god tier at everything, never wets out, cheaper than dinner but outperforms almost every jacket you can buy.
downside: they tear and snag easily and they're not suitable for shit like bushwhacking. and the pants are worthless innawoods. throw them away, turn them into a rain skirt that performs amazing but makes you look gay and homeless at the same time, or save them for scrap material to patch up the jacket with duct tape, use them to walk your dog on rainy days i don't care.

Ignore the goretex milshitter

The real question is, where to find a jacket with pit zips that doesn’t cost 400 dollars for no reason. is anything REI has good? it doesnt have to survive a thunderstorm it just needs to keep me dry long enough to set up the tent


yes pit zips are a must, i sweat like a fat man

>>2822195 (OP)
>Only thing I'm struggling with is finding a solution for the legs, using natural fiber.
From my experience living in a cold and wet climate, I use wool trousers in the winter, and heavy duty poly-cotton the rest of the year.

As you say breathability is important otherwise you'll sweat yourself wet. Tex clothing feels like a meme that will fade out eventually, especially now that more environmentally friendly impregnation techniques can turn cotton/poly-cotton clothes in to psuedo rain gear.
My go to is breathable and rugged clothes that can handle a light drizzle and separate rain jacket in my pack in case it starts to pour and I suggest you try the same.

>>2825380
Yep, that's exactly the kind of shit I meant when I said that most civilian stuff doesn't even meet the minimum requirements milsurp barely reaches. That sort of rain gear may not get you wet from the rain, but it keeps the sweat in so badly that you get just as wet in the end. and that's not even mentioning how damn easy this "polypropylene fleece" tears usually (well, on the ones I had as a kid, anyways, which probably were from a different manufacturer).
At 30$, you might as well get a milsurp poncho, which will at least let air in from below, and will keep your pack (which probably isn't waterproof either, if you're that strapped for cash) dry as well.

Personally, I don't wear rain protection unless it's both cold and pouring down massively. both wool and synthetics stay comfy enough for me when wet. only when it's bad enough that hypothermia might be possible (around freezing, windy, strong rain), I use an oilskin coat I've had for a few years now. That thing isn't exactly breathable either, but still better than plastics.

>>2822195 (OP)
>Meanwhile I've hiked in a constant rain for 5 hours wearing a traditional wool sweater and the water didn't get through. Felt a lot nicer than wearing plastic, too.
My expensive rain jacket doesn't feel like plastic and also keeps my water free for hours on end in downpour. cheaper gear is plastic because plastic is cheap and in fact water proof if sealed properly.

>>2823095
>not comfort or reliability.
ECWCS/PCU gear is legitimately the best shit i've had in a long time. I wouldn't do their base layers though since they will stink like shit compared to wool within a day. I fucking love my L5 jacket though

>>2823025
i was thinking the same thing

>>2825392
French milsurp rain jackets have pit zips
got mine for 15 euros

Isnt being windproof more important than staying dry?

Army guy here:
Why not just get comfortable with getting wet? If I'm doing a movement, I'm not putting my ECWCS on. WW Top & Bottoms are hardly in my packing list when I have a poncho. A part of being prepared is waterproofing your pack and compartmentalizing your equipment so it doesn't all get fucked if you walk through a river / get dumped on for a day.
At the end of the day, set up your tarp, get into your dry kit, and go to bed in your bivy. Wake up and get back into your wet kit, and CM.
Now, if I'm looking at this from the perspective of going for a day hike, a Gortex shell will 100% keep you dry & warm. People get misconstrued and think their Gen 3 Windbreaker is their Gortex and cry foul when they get soaked.
T - Jungle Expert.

>>2825650
This guy knows what he's talking about
>>2825658
L7s are the Cadillac of sleep gear
>>2823270
This guy needs to take his meds

>>2822195 (OP)
'Waterproof' isn't the meme. 'Breathable' is. Every waterproof hardshell jacket I had felt like a plastic bag to wear. I don't mind in winter because I wear a fleece west underneath anyway, but in summer they're a pain.