It's supposed to bring us to an appropriate price point but it seems like the average consumer has zero control over either aspect

https://viewfromthewing.com/aria-las-vegas-charges-guests-26-for-a-bottle-of-water-as-adam-smiths-famous-economics-paradox-dies-in-a-hotel-room/

>I... I HAVE to buy it! I have no choice!

jewish usury

because we don't live under true capitalism
we have strong welfare states and corporatism

Is US tap water toxic or something? Why are you lot always buying bottled water?

>>507559629
Even if you refuse to buy it the price is still going to be higher in 6 months >>507559797
Yes, and it tastes awful

Nothing in an economic textbook survives contact with reality

>>507559958
>Oh no... now the price is even higher! I can feel the money slipping out of my wallet! I resisted before but now I absolutely HAVE to buy it!

>>507559958
and I guess Nestle or whoever makes sure it doesn't get fixed?

>>507559532 (OP)
I don't eat out, and I don't travel. Just say no to their bullshit.

>>507559532 (OP)
if they only invented a system that brings this water to your place with tubes for almost free

>>507559532 (OP)
Because price doesn't change with supply and demand as some some inherent property of physics. Prices change because people change them, and they may or may not choose to act as some random economic model (like the supply and demand curve) predicts they should act. If a company just decides to jack up the price the price will go up. Maybe that will work out for the company in the long term and maybe it won't. Maybe it's consistent with supply and demand as maybe it isn't. Most people are stupid and can be tricked into doing stupid things.

>>507559532 (OP)
If your economic theory doesn't account for the behavior of jews, and other purely parasitic organized groups like gypsies and jeets, then it is useless. They aren't simply free riders, they are entire economies of parasitic extraction.

>>507559532 (OP)
>Meanwhile, diamonds are ardly life or death but the next carat is scarce and highly desired – so expensive.
Hilariously, the author fails to realize that diamonds are also plentiful. Supply is artificially restricted by the De Beers cartel.
Scarcity was defeated in the west awhile ago. High prices literally exist because the rich are hoarding wealth from you.

>>507559797
US tap water is mildly toxic (fluoride, birth control, industrial waste, etc). Sometimes the government admits it is responsible for a rash of birth defects or other problems. Look up "Camp Lejeune water contamination", or watch the Erin Brockovich movie.
More importantly tap water usually tastes like chlorine or metal

>>507560345
If only life could be as simple as it is for people who lack cognitive capacity and are constantly confidently ignorant. The kicker is you die of cancer at 55.

>>507559797
If the hotels made the tap water drinkable how would they sell you $26 bottled water?

Writ large, if we solve problems, how do we charge people for solutions? You see where this is going.

>>507559797
>>507560862
Also, you're in a hotel. Are you supposed to fill a glass from the bathroom sink where strangers have washed shit off of their fingers and washed a hooker's vaginal secretions off of their cock and balls? How much do you trust the illiterate 85 IQ Indio cleaning lady to disinfect your hotel bathroom to food-grade standard? Sometimes the cleaners are even fucking black.

>>507561140
Facts. Obviously if hotels wanted to they could have running, filtered water on a dedicated tap in whatever kitchen area of each room. The "extra cost" would be covered by like one day of operation, permanently. But again, then they couldn't overcharge you for water.
In the long run, technology destroys all profit potential. This is why "late stage capitalism" is just hiding real solutions/rent seeking. The medical industry is probably the worst offender, but you see it everywhere with planned obsolescence etc.

>>507560862
As it stands now, we're charging the public to make the problem worse. We pay to add fluoride to the water despite demand being practically zero. Las Vegas is a great example, the water naturally has the recommended amount of fluoride but tax payers foot the bill for even more of it.

I have started ordering coffee from the UK instead of buying it from local shops. The price difference is that extreme.

>>507559532 (OP)
I hope it's not actually for eska. It tastes like ass.

>>507561554
Never heard of this. Why is coffee so expensive in Italy? What kind of price difference do you see, and why is coffee from the UK specifically so much cheaper?

Because there is no price discovery mechanism in capital markets, and that has now trickled down to markets for Real Economy consumer goods (because if corporations/their stock values have zero price discovery then why should the product they sell) where price distortion of all asset and product-market classes is ubiquitous.
'Capitalism' died and permanently went to heaven in 2008. Every HNW entity, corporation, sovereign gov, hedge fund after 2008 now depends 100 percent on endless supplies of debt note fiat currency from central banks to keep from imploding.
Whatever this system we now are in is, it's not "capitalism" nor does it adhere to basic Econ 101 principles at all whatsoever.

>>507559532 (OP)
>youre stuck in the middle of a desert with no water, the thing you need to live.
No shit. Just drink from the faucet thats covered in thousands of previous occupants fecal matter.

>>507559797
Flint, Michigan isn't a one off. The older the area, the older the pipes. The water is fine straight from the source, though.

>>507561647
Did you know mixed race people have poorer colour vision than whites? Its why you struggle with our flags.

>>507559797
Its Las Vegas. Imagine building a big shiny city in the middle of australian desert. Water is going to be a constant issue.

>>507561825
Kek, my bad. But your comment does make sense now.

>>507559532 (OP)
The hotel has full control of the products it serves on the room service menu. It's not a free market situation so the law does not apply.

>>507561140
You don't live in a home with plumbing? Fair point about hotel bathrooms, but over the years I've seen countless examples of Americans with stacks of bottled water at home.

>>507559532 (OP)
They realized they can just think of a bigger number for everything until the industry collapses

ill just drink the sink water

>>507561929
The tap water still tastes terrible and most people are retards who won't put in an RO system because they think plumbing is scary.

>>507561649
Help a brainlet out. What is "price discovery"? What happened in 2008 exactly? I feel like what you're saying has truth.

>>507562128
What is a search engine?https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/pricediscovery.asp

>>507562128
>What happened in 2008 exactly?
No way you have to be trolling

there are very bad greedy people, and i use the word "bad" here to validate their insufferably retarded incompetence and antithesis against all others which earns their punishment.
such greedy people expect to believe in get-rich-wuick schemes, about overcharging.
supply and demand is about the consumer's demand being supplied.
supply and demand is not about the company demanding the consumer to purchas the company's supply of the product.
anyone who argues fundamentally against this provisional definition of supply and demand while also legitimately expecting to be involved in business will be causing harm to a society which generates hate for the company and paints targets on the back of CEO heads, and this isn't a threat, it's a pattern-recognized history-proven fact.

>>507559797
They literally but fluoride, neurotoxin, in the tap water. But also since bottled water became popular I've noticed tap water quality has been dropping year by year.

>>507559532 (OP)
Because people with money are actually privileged retards with generational wealth.
You can't tell me anyone with any kind of worth that earned his fortune in any capacity would ever spend 26 bucks on water.
If I suddenly became a billionaire, I still wouldn't buy Steam games off discount or waste money on "brand" water.

>>507562188
God forbid I engage in dialog in a forum for dialog. Do you want to tell me how price discovery is no longer working? Because that's my other question.

>>507562233
Those people are still retards. Lots of bottled water still contains fluoride because it's bottled at municipal sources, i.e. tap water. Penn and Teller did a good Bullshit episode about it.

>>507559532 (OP)
>Vegas
It's because people get piss drunk and raid the outrageously overpriced mini bar that charges to their room. 26 dollar bottles of water wouldn't fly anywhere else unless the average income is 1 million and up.

>>507559758
>True communism has never been implemented I swear.

>>507562411
Ok, think it out. How do you determine the "real" value of say a bottle of water? You'd have to figure out the actual cost to pull it out of the ground, purify it, bottle it, etc. This is already a massively difficult problem. But it's worse: now you have the same issue with each cost in that process. What's the "real" price for a plastic bottle? What's the "real" price for a purification plant? Most people have no idea how to go about calculating this, so instead they just look at "market rates", which is just whatever number another company is already charging. But of course you don't know if their number is authentic. Pricing like this becomes circular logic. Further, there can be hidden information that's almost impossible to assess. Maybe a competitor is being secretly subsidized, as through some USAID bullshit, etc. Without price discovery, the market makes (those who already hold the wealth in whatever area) can set whatever price and all the competitor's prices revolve around it. That's really what "market making" is.

>>507562437
Depends on the bottler, but even municipal sources are often distilled or RO'd. That gets rid of a good chunk of fluoride.

>>507561880
lake mead is RIGHT FUCKING THERE

>>507562751
*market makers

>>507559532 (OP)
Don't take stuff from the mini-bar.
Go to casino an get free bottle of water.
Go to vending machine. Pay $3
He paid for convenience, and for imported water.

It's to attract fallout larpers

>>507559532 (OP)
The price is fine the price is supposed to encourage you not to buy it unless you are wealthy or really want it.

>>507559532 (OP)
He's also paying a premium by staying at a semi-fancy hotel.
Could've stayed at one at half the price (and with cheaper water), but he's also paying to avoid sleeping in the same hotel the riff raff do.
It's the 'no poors", no niggers filter.

>>507559532 (OP)
>It's supposed to bring us to an appropriate price point but it seems like the average consumer has zero control over either aspect
Who ever said market price is supposed to be "reasonable"? Do leftist retards really think this?
The market price is the highest price someone is willing to pay at the time of purchase. If you're on fire then you would pay me $10,000 to dump a bucket of water on you, which you'd never pay for otherwise. It all depends on circumstance and how desperate the consumer is. The poorer and more stressed out people are, the more they're willing to pay in a moment of weakness. That's why capitalism works.

Then go to the grocery store and buy a 30~40, pack for a fraction of the price, or just go to a gas station and pick up some water.

>>507563243
>The poorer and more stressed out people are, the more they're willing to pay in a moment of weakness. That's why capitalism works.
bro did you use chatgpt to write this lmao wtf are you even talking about. please don't use chatgpt it is offensive and retarded and unfunny.

>>507562751
Well, was price discovery ever transparent in industrialized society? Consumer's don't do production cost breakdowns. They just knew that buying a yard of cloth for a price was more appealing that producing the cloth themselves. Basically, "how much am I willing to spend before it's not worth it to me". I think now the problem is distributed monopolies and regulations that make competitive products impossible. But I dunno, like I said I'm a brainlet.

>>507563374
Not everyone is a zoomer retard who can't form their own thoughts

>>507559797
It literally is. If you drink the tap water in New Jersey you'll develop health issues fast

>>507559532 (OP)
anyone else get the feeling we are completely fucking broke as a nation and everything seemingly going south is a result of that? I mean, the price and size of a McDonald's double cheeseburger is mortifying. Six dollars and it's the size of like half a sandwich

>>507563243
When people speak of "fairness" here they aren't complaining that prices are too high, they're rightfully complaining that some people are just law-of-the-jungle predators while falsely claiming to live in a "free market" or "civilization". If you were on fire, the "fair" thing to do would be to just dump a bucket of water on your head for free. Would you really think I was being reasonable if I demanded $10,000 instead of just dumping the water? Of course not. Usually people try to introduce some ridiculous trolley problem hypothecation like "yeah well what if it was the last bucket of water on earth" or "what if we were in a desert" or whatever, but of course that's nonsense and not real life.
In real life, especially the the west, water is abundant and sustainable. Corporations like OP's hotel are just assholes demanding $10,000 to dump the water bucket.

>>507563556
How much have wages risen since, say, 1971? and how much have prices?

>>507563397
>Well, was price discovery ever transparent in industrialized society?
It was much better than it was today. The fewer barriers to market there are and the less government bullshit that exists, the more accurate and less circular "market based pricing" becomes.

>>507563397
Here's a good example of how fucked prices are https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxqz2g05MTI
We have such much that companies will pay just to have products new from the factory put into landfills. But then they want to charge you for one.

>>507559532 (OP)
>drinking luxury imported water in a luxury hotel
>in a city in the mother fucking desert
>it is virtually impossible for supply to be lower or demand higher anywhere else on earth
>durr durr it expnensive hurr therfor suply adn duhmand not reel
>durr me redartded me poopy in pants
>my ice cream is cold it must be on fire

>>507559532 (OP)
>did you just order $26 water?

>>507559532 (OP)
Maybe you should open up a water selling business near or outside of the hotel, chud?

>>507564064
>world's dumbest nigger award.jpg

>>507563604
You are right, but also Las Vegas actually is in a desert. This speaks to the American problem, which might be related to some things, of building resorts and golf courses and growing almonds in the fucking desert.
Nobody should be charged $30 for a bottle of water because nobody should be living in or going on vacation to a desert in a desert.

>>507563604
>some people are just law-of-the-jungle predators while falsely claiming to live in a "free market" or "civilization".
>. If you were on fire, the "fair" thing to do would be to just dump a bucket of water on your head for free.
Of course I'D think that were fair because I'd be the one on fire.
>Would you really think I was being reasonable if I demanded $10,000 instead of just dumping the water?
I would easily pay you that to save my life, so that would be a reasonable offer.
>In real life, especially the the west, water is abundant and sustainable.
Yet someone still paid almost $30 for a bottle. There are factors that pushed the consumer to pay that much, which means they reasonably set their price. That's all it means. It has nothing to do with morals or what you personally think is right.

>>507559758
We have a welfare state BECAUSE we have crony capitalism. It is a side effect of elite government capture rather than a casual factor of anything but the survival of people said elites don't care about. Get money out of politics and we could implement a regime of reform which kicks the capitalists out of Washington and puts them in corporate boardrooms where they belong. By reforming government and implementing a separation of money and state (money being the functional new church) we could decrease the reliance upon welfare as a side effect. By focusing on it as a prime mover of capitalist corruption, we only further entrench the hands in our collective purse.

>>507562483
this the arbitrage is for convenience and it serves as anchor for other products with even steeper margin

>>507564210
And the award goes to... This anon, for his bold display of illiteracy!
>luxury imported water in a luxury hotel

>>507564231
See >>507564210
Logistics and technology have conquered this problem. You can't grow coffee in Norway. Do Norwegians pay such exorbitant prices for coffee? I haven't tried putting the info in but you could probably have Walmart on any of a million other stores deliver to the hotel in OP's pic for a few dollars. Actual physical scarcity of water is not an issue.

>>507563556
it might seem far fetched, it might seem outlandish, it may seem blown widely out of proportion but...

>>507559532 (OP)
The water might be $26 but the bedbugs are always free.

>>507564422
Imported water is essentially the same price. You can have it delivered to the exact hotel in the article for $7. If I buy $35 worth, delivery is free.

You are a stupid nigger.

>>507564423
It hasn't, but giving you the benefit of the doubt, that would mean supply and demand DOES work and OP is double retarded.

Having been to Vegas: You can get water from the shops next to or within your hotel for 10-20% of the mini bar pricing. Or, since that's still kind of a ripoff, you can go to the CVS/Target/Walgreens on the other side of the strip and whatever you want for about the same as you'd get it anywhere else in the country. They're only raping you on the minibar because you're too lazy to do anything about it.

>>507564740
>LaCroix is luxury
You're funny, say more stuff!

>>507564347
>Of course I'D think that were fair because I'd be the one on fire.
Lol no you wouldn't you be like "WTF man help me".

>I would easily pay you that to save my life, so that would be a reasonable offer.
No it wouldn't. The reasonable thing to do would be to just dump the water for free because water is cheap and abundant and human life is valuable.

>Yet someone still paid almost $30 for a bottle. There are factors that pushed the consumer to pay that much, which means they reasonably set their price. That's all it means. It has nothing to do with morals or what you personally think is right.
People do stupid things, that doesn't make the thing "fair" or "reasonable". Jeets run phone scams in which they give nothing in exchange for thousands of dollars. Is getting nothing worth thousands of dollars? Of course not. Some subjectivity exists in the course of appraisal and can vary by person or situation, but objective values still exists. Is water in the US abundant? It is.

>>507564867
>on the other side of the strip
And by "other side" I mean the other side of the road, literally just crossing the street. Takes 10-20 minutes depending on which hotel you're staying at.

Every hotel I've stayed in had a shop within walking distance, often in the same complex, with normal prices. Motels might not but I only arrive to them in a car and can easily drive to a store. Most motels don't have in-room vending anyway but often will have a vending machine on premises with slightly inflated prices.
If you pay $26 for a bottle of water, it's because you're insanely lazy.

>>507564867
this. its the same issue with people who order a personal taxi for the food they want to eat

>>507559797
Only toxic in urban shithole cities and the rustbelt.
The south is fine

>>507564970
The bottles you pictured are priced at about $2 each. You're proving my point.

>>507565097
You value your time at $260/hour?

>>507564787
>It hasn't
Then how come I can buy the water in the article, at the hotel in the article for $2 a bottle?
>>507564740
>>507564970
Reality physically doesn't match up with the claim that water - even that particular "luxury brand" of water - is scarce there.

>>507565158
Everything's cheaper if you buy it in bulk. OP was talking about buying a single bottle. Want me to explain the difference between fish sticks and glue sticks while we're at it?

>>507565246
>Then how come I can buy the water in the article, at the hotel in the article for $2 a bottle?
Think for an hour or two about when you said "logistics and technology have conquered this problem" and then get back to me.

>>507559758
>corporatism
NO, we (the west at large) doesn't have people divided into interest groups based on their profession who then vie for power, with the government acting as an intermediary. ie. a guild economy. You are probably thinking of corporatocracy which is a totally different thing.

>>507565266
>Everything's cheaper if you buy it in bulk.
You're just grasping at straws now. Will the hotel give me a better rate on the water if I want 50 bottles of it? They won't, because there prices are a scam.
For about price of two bottles at the hotel I can get a whole case delivered, why wouldn't I just do that? Am I really going to only need one bottle in the course of a hotel stay?

>>507561929
It varies greatly by location. If your tap water comes from an aquifer it's probably decent, but most places source their water from a lake which requires more chemical treatment and tastes like shit. Dallas tap water, for example, has so much chlorine and shit in it your mouth feels dry after you take a drink.

Some poorer areas have really bad infrastructure as well that can make the water straight up non-potable.

>>507565353
But it has. This is why I can get a $2 bottle of Eska water delivered to the MGM Aria Las Vegas. You can cope all you want but this is the physical and economic reality. What made this possible? Manual labor? Magic?

>>507559532 (OP)
Imagine being that guy who just shot them and sold it for $2 a bottle. Pure profit.

>>507562751
>and all the competitor's prices revolve around it
Except that the competitors would quickly figure out that the product they're selling has a huuuge profit margin and they can decrease its price to drive up consumer demand towards them.

>>507565115
You don't even have to take the time to walk to a convenience store, you can have regular mail and packages sent to you at any decent hotel. Just order whatever you want from wherever and have it sent to you. If it's a planned trip you have plenty of time to work this out; it can even be there waiting for you when you arrive.

>>507559797
You should always use a water filter at home. Imagine trusting the water that comes from public taps. Kek look at the Japs, they do it too.

>>507565597
>But it has. This is why I can get a $2 bottle of Eska water delivered to the MGM Aria Las Vegas.
Cool, now try getting it delivered to Chinguetti, Mauretania.
>What made this possible? Manual labor? Magic?
Supply and demand.

>>507562287
Probably more like a scam
>haha, you picked up the bottle! We're charging $26 to your card on file and we have employees tasked with aggressively following up on any and all chargebacks
Or, the guest is dying of hangover/food poisoning in the hotel room and drinks the water out of desperation. It's unlikely a hotel that caters to decimillionaires+ who never waste time considering price is going to offer some shoddy looking shit like "eska".

>>507559532 (OP)
>I live in a third world shithole so i cant drink tap water
Boo fucking hoo

>>507565797
>pure profit
>have to spend money on bullets
learn economics

>>507564347
It has lots to do with morals. If there weren't any anti-monopoly laws, any big corporation would quickly remove competition by buying them out or buying out their suppliers (or any other subversive means) and proceed to charge up the prices as high asit wanted. It's not only law that stops this, it's common sense and a sense of morality.

Americans don't know what morality is since they pay their healthcare provider 500 dollars a month only for it to say "we will cover you don't worry" and when it's time to help they go "nah bro wrong doctor go somewhere else" or "yeah we will pay you but only for this specific cheap thing" or "we will only start paying after you've spent 20k lol" or "yeah I'll only cover 50% of that haha".

Any reasonable businessman who was setting up a healthcare system would price their services to match their costs of operations, but instead you get huge megacorps who jew you over every penny and lobby among themselves to keep the american worker chained to their system

>>507565147
Fucking lmao dude, the South has brain-eating amoebas in the water and municipal jobs are staffed by retarded, alcoholic Scots-Irish at best. I'm pretty sure I read that some lady just died from an amoeba in the tap water down there last week.

>>507561738
They make tap water from sewer?

>>507566100
>Cool, now try getting it delivered to Chinguetti, Mauretania.
See this is exactly the kind of argument I expect from a stupid nigger.
Instead of addressing the actual issue we're actually discussing, you're trying divert to a different issue we aren't discussing.
The question was: Do hotels like the one in OP's article overcharge for water, in excess of what supply and demand would indicate? I proved that they do. In response you want to argue that water is scarce in some shithole village in Mauretania.

But for the hell of it, let's ask the question. Why is water more available in Las Vegas than in Mauretania? Aren't the both deserts? And isn't demand in Vegas much greater?
The answer, as I said is that Vegas has technology and a functioning civilization. Mauretania does not. And I guarantee you that any "hotel" you stay at in Mauretania doesn't overcharge for water like a Vegas hotel.

>>507564347
>I would easily pay you that to save my life, so that would be a reasonable offer.
Yeah but it doesn't cost ten thousand dollars for the water or the pale. It doesn't even cost ten thousand calories. Your willingness to pay that amount doesn't mean you're not getting extorted. While they are intertwined issues, they can be meaningfully separated into two considerations: your willingness to be extorted under duress versus their enthusiasm at extorting you for personal profit.

The law doesn't actually concern itself with your welfare explicitly. Justice is a blind cunt who concerns herself only with the wrongdoers. You caught on fire? Too bad, so sad. Hope that works out for you, maybe file a lawsuit. In the meantime, I'm going to crush this opportunist into the ground.

Ice anthropomorphized this, obviously, but what I'm demonstrating is actually a foundational principle of the American legal system when working optimally.

>>507559532 (OP)
Vegas is a desert. Therefore, water is more expensive to drink there. Much more so in a fancy Vegas hotel. Boom, problem solved. What exactly are you whining about?

>>507566683
>The question was: Do hotels like the one in OP's article overcharge for water, in excess of what supply and demand would indicate?
No, it was does this disprove the concept of supply and demand, and the only thing you proved is that it does not.

>In response you want to argue that water is scarce in some shithole village in Mauretania.
Because you alleged that logistics and technology have solved the problem of scarcity, when much of the world plainly shows that's not the case. Maybe that's not what you were getting at, your demonstrated retardation makes it hard to be sure.

>The answer, as I said is that Vegas has technology and a functioning civilization. Mauretania does not.
Therefore the supply is greater. I'd ask what you think you're proving but obviously you're not thinking much at all.

>>507561929
They aren't allowed to collect rainwater, so

>>507566967

I proved this is not the case.
>>507564210
>>507564740
>>507564970

OP is "whining" that the hotel is scamming people. Charging $26 for a bottle of water in the US just a scam. No different (though less significant and damaging) than a jeet scammer who convinces someone to transfer their money away.

>>507562751
They skip environmental cost all the time to make it cheaper than it really is

>>507563397
The economy lack diversities

>>507567162
You're problem is you're applying the "law" of supply and demand inconsistently. Supply and demand might explain why water is cheap (via delivery to the hotel), but not why it's expensive when you buy it from the hotel directly. The available supply and the existing demand are the same in both cases, and at the same time. Since the prices vary, the they can't be dictated by supply and demand, there's some other factor (in this case, the scamming hotel). If price were just a function of supply and demand, the hotel would have to be charging about $2 a bottle be definition.

>>507567256
That would only explain an artificially low price generally. It can't explain why the water is $2 online and $26 a bottle at the same hotel at the same time.

>>507567471
There, now you're starting to get it! Glad I didn't give up on you. The thing is supply and demand isn't a law, more like a rule of thumb. Of course supply and demand aren't the only determinants of value, they can't be because value is subjective. In this case, the other determinants of value going into the price tag are service costs, the convenience of not having to leave your hotel room and go to Walmart, the experience itself of staying at such a ritzy hotel, and who knows what else.

>>507559532 (OP)
Because the currency printer is on you fucking retards. Prices can't stabilise if you have infinite money coming in over time, that's why prices go up, that's what it's called inflation, the expansion of your currency supply causing prices to be bid up.

Everyone taking out loans or credit are participating in the usury. If enough people stop using credit and loans, the he system will collapse so hard that we'll go back to gold and silver when people finally lose trust in everything.

>>507567783
It literally is considered a law you stupid nigger https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/law-of-supply-demand.asp

A "law" that's wrong. If it were right, the hotel couldn't charge $26.

>>507567783
You're going to extreme lengths to avoid admitting that luxury goods break supply and demand... and that the definition of a luxury good is one you can go without. Your entire argument is an attempt to cast a bottle of water as a luxury good, and in the process of moving a hundred+ yards away and squinting at it as hard as you can, you're doing a pretty decent job from a purely argumentative standpoint. The problem is that a captive audience, by simple virtue of its captivity, does not render all goods luxuries and subject to price gouging under any possible permutation of the laws of supply and demand.

>>507568257
What's even more ridiculous is "luxury" water is a scam anyway (as are many other "luxury" item). There is no appreciable difference between these ridiculous luxury water labels and "regular" bottled water, just as there is no real difference between the "luxury" made in China handbags and one from a normal box store.

$26 for a bottle of Dasani vs $26 for a bottle of whatever this "luxury" brand in question is is just a difference in the degree of smoke and mirrors.

>>507567221
Hotels have to scam because less people come over to gamble their money away. Boomers used to do it, now they have other distractions. Zoomers buy lootboxes and skins. It's over for Vegas.

>>507567967
It metaphorically is a law you double stupid double nigger.

>A "law" that's wrong. If it were right, the hotel couldn't charge $26.
If you want to get brazenly excessively literal like that, then virtually no laws of economics are true, because value is not objective. You might not think that bottle is worth $26, and it's easy to see why, but obviously someone at some point did, or else the hotel would be wasting money.

>>507568257
>and that the definition of a luxury good is one you can go without. Your entire argument is an attempt to cast a bottle of water as a luxury good
That particular brand actually is, you admitted it yourself when you posted pictures of Walmart store brand water to show how much cheaper it is.

>>507568455
>There is no appreciable difference between these ridiculous luxury water labels and "regular" bottled water, just as there is no real difference between the "luxury" made in China handbags and one from a normal box store.
Not appreciable to you but certainly appreciable to someone. Again, and I'll say it as many times as I have to: value is subjective.

>>507568517
>metaphorically a law
There's no metaphor dude. It's literally called the *law* of supply and demand. OP is arguing that it is not in fact a law because reality doesn't conform to it. Reality in fact doesn't conform to it, so it isn't a law. (In contrast, think about how reality *always* conforms to the laws of thermodynamics.
> value is not objective
Yes it is, it's just the effective of all the individual subjective valuations. An arsonist might find "value" in burning down a building, but that objectively isn't valuable. Water is valuable. But it isn't $26 a bottle valuable in Las Vegas, because it can be got cheaper than that.

>>507568517
>That particular brand actually is
No, it isn't. It's water. You can buy it for four bucks at Walmart. If the hotel put a chemically-identical bottle of water next to eska, made sure all guests knew the prices, and charged $2 for one bottle and $26 for the other, which one do you think people would buy? This is my point here: that what you're defending isn't free market capitalism or luxury goods but opportunistic rent-seeking and value-extracting parasitism. Water is a necessity. Wrapping it in luxury and charging 10-20x the cost of production in an environment where price equilibrium is impossible due to immotility... a capitalism that ain't.

>>507568688
>Not appreciable to you but certainly appreciable to someone. Again, and I'll say it as many times as I have to: value is subjective.

You're trying to put ignorance on the same level as knowledge.
Some people give all their money away to a "Nigerian prince". Was it "subjectively valuable" to them? No, there is NO subjective value there. Those people are *objectively wrong* in their valuation sending their money away, just as people who buy water at $26 a bottle are *objectively wrong* in their valuation.

$$$ effectively scammed != market price

>>507568952
NO *objective value

>>507566364
She literally was flossing/flushing her nose with tap water. Way different than what you just posted.

And again. That was a city/urban system

>>507568804
>OP is arguing that it is not in fact a law because reality doesn't conform to it
If that were the case then I would agree wholeheartedly with him, but what he actually said was
>It's supposed to bring us to an appropriate price point but it seems like the average consumer has zero control over either aspect
Which demands a hell of a lot more than a single outlier to prove by any standard.

>Yes it is, it's just the effective of all the individual subjective valuations.
That's like saying Bob Saget is objectively funny because he's one of the highest rated comedians of all time.

>But it isn't $26 a bottle valuable in Las Vegas, because it can be got cheaper than that.
I already addressed this, go back and read my post again.

>>507568834
>No, it isn't. It's water. You can buy it for four bucks at Walmart.
If you're already at Walmart then you can get store brand water even cheaper, so QED.

>water next to eska, made sure all guests knew the prices, and charged $2 for one bottle and $26 for the other, which one do you think people would buy
That's exactly not what they're doing, that would be silly.

>This is my point here: that what you're defending isn't free market capitalism or luxury goods but opportunistic rent-seeking and value-extracting parasitism. Water is a necessity. Wrapping it in luxury and charging 10-20x the cost of production in an environment where price equilibrium is impossible due to immotility... a capitalism that ain't.
Well, it's happening in a city that only exists because enough people in the country have so much disposable income they can get on a plane and take a vacation there just to flush it down the crapper, so whatever you call it, it seems to be working.

>>507568834
>If the hotel put a chemically-identical bottle of water next to eska, made sure all guests knew the prices, and charged $2 for one bottle and $26 for the other, which one do you think people would buy?
This is an excellent way to phrase the problem. Eliminate deception and the prices equalize.

>>507568952
>Some people give all their money away to a "Nigerian prince". Was it "subjectively valuable" to them? No, there is NO subjective value there.
Yes it was, they found value in the belief that they'd get a return on their investment. If they knew it helped a starving Nigerian man buy food they might even still find some.

>Those people are *objectively wrong* in their valuation sending their money away, just as people who buy water at $26 a bottle are *objectively wrong* in their valuation.
So it's objectively wrong to spend a few extra bucks to save yourself a trip to Walmart? Get your soapbox, you've got some work to do.

My only takeaway from the thread is that somehow Americans are perfectly okay with their tap water being toxic. Some of you even celebrate it! This shit is literally pajeet tier you all should be up in flames about this.

>>507569431
> Which demands a hell of a lot more than a single outlier to prove by any standard.
This isn't an outlier, it's an example that's representative of the norm. Essentially all hotels overcharge for bottled water, at least in the US.

> That's like saying Bob Saget is objectively funny because he's one of the highest rated comedians of all time.
Apples to oranges. Comedy isn't a fungible commodity; water is.

>I already addressed this, go back and read my post again.
You haven't addressed anything. You've tried to claim, simultaneously, that:
Supply and demand isn't considered a law even though it is.
And that not being a law, but just a "metaphor" (a metaphor for what?), that it still absolutely, which would by definition make it a law, contrary to OP's article

>>507569567
>Yes it was, they found value in the belief that they'd get a return on their investment. If they knew it helped a starving Nigerian man buy food they might even still find some.
Indian hands typed this post

>>507569567
> If they knew it helped a starving Nigerian man buy food they might even still find some.
Wait holy shit I overlooked this part.
You don't even know how this scam works! They aren't asking for money to feed some starving guy, they tell you that some prince left you a fortune and they just need your bank information to send it to you.

>>507569852
>This isn't an outlier, it's an example that's representative of the norm. Essentially all hotels overcharge for bottled water, at least in the US.
For reasons I am now telling you for the second time that I very clearly stated already, and your continued failure to understand demonstrates extreme retardation.

>Apples to oranges. Comedy isn't a fungible commodity; water is.
Cope, you're saying if an opinion is popular enough it becomes fact.

>You haven't addressed anything. You've tried to claim, simultaneously, that:
Supply and demand isn't considered a law even though it is.
>And that not being a law, but just a "metaphor" (a metaphor for what?), that it still absolutely, which would by definition make it a law, contrary to OP's article
Holy dog crap your reading comprehension is abominable, I said it's a rule of thumb, calling it a "law" is a metaphor.

>>507569589
You have to understand that the US isn't a country, it's two countries in a cold civil war. Half the country has been trying to fix this since it began and the other half thinks they'll die if the government stops putting mystery chemicals into the water.

Crony capitalism isn't capitalism.

>>507570117
I know what a Nigerian prince scam is you triple Nigger, any neurologically healthy human being would be able to tell my point is that such a scam might be motivated by desperate survival needs. I'm done trying to get simple concepts through your retarded skull, go ahead and make like a pigeon on a chessboard.

>>507559532 (OP)
Low demand = Milk the whales even more

>>507570249
>Cope, you're saying if an opinion is popular enough it becomes fact.
I'm saying that if prices weren't objective we wouldn't have market rates. Truly subjective values/prices would mean everybody haggled for everything and had individual prices. There are examples of this (auctions), but things we're discussing, like water, clearly have market rates and objective values.

>>507570395
No, you thought it was a charity tear-jerk scam not an advance fee scam.

>>507559629
>>507559532 (OP)
Just stop buying shit for a month. If we did just this, half of globohomo would collapse

Exactly. I recall reading an article somewhere about a restaurant complaining how they had to raise prices since they were getting fewer customers. There are so many examples of supply/demand not working but they just get ignored. The ridiculous part is that in other fields like physics this is considered normal and has no stigma attached to it. As you understanding of nature improves, sometimes you have to update your models. In economics people refuse to do this with religious dedication.

>>507559532 (OP)
Rent seeking behavior doesn’t disprove anything about Adam smith. Leftists need to starve to death in the street I’m sick of their bullshit

>>507559532 (OP)
just bring your own

>>507570597
It's not this simple. Companies have the resources and credit lines to wait you out. The reverse generally isn't true. If everyone stopped working for a month on the other hand...

I don’t need to early life who owns this hotel do I?

Bump

>>507559969
You have never seen an economics textbook

>>507571018
Think it was better when some old jewish guy owned things now a toilet belongs to millions of investors just wanting until its $26 to shit

>>507559629
A lot of the time they trick you.

They have automated mini-bars where if you lift anything up to take a look, you're billed for it, even if you put it back. They also have small convenience stores in the hotels that look fairly normal but don't have prices. You expect them to be expensive but you end up being charged $10 for a can of drink. They rely on people being too drunk or too heavily pressured into the sale to go "fuck no".

>>507573651
>They have automated mini-bars where if you lift anything up to take a look, you're billed for it, even if you put it back.
This should be against the law. In any regular store you can pick up a bottle and look at it.

>>507560757
Rich people aren’t nearly as rich as you think. Most wealth these days comes from massive economies of scale. If you look at how much “profit” generally ends up in the owners pocket per unit sold it’s like 5 cents. So if you had some kind of utopian marxoid model with the workers owning the business they could cut out leadership and everyone would earn like an extra $5 a day? Maybe $2k a year extra redistributed towards the workers? Which they would piss away on lotto tickets, booze, cigarettes, weed etc.
The reason things are expensive now is because we have an inflationary debt based economy. We sell debt and print money to keep liquidity churning through the system. Early on there were problems with dealing with market cycles because we’d hit liquidity crises where over leveraged banks took on too much risk systemically and you just end up in a place where nobody has money and nobody can borrow more money.
So now we just flood the system with more cash to get through deleveraging cycles which leads to massive inflation.
The rich aren’t even richer than they were 100 years ago. John D Rockefeller would be worth a trillion dollars in today’s money.

>>507569094
>It's her fault the tapwater melted her brain, she got some up her nose!
3rd world tier, or worse. Also, what the fuck is up with all these anons that very obviously tie their self-image to a bullshit narrative that "there are no problems where I live, everything is perfect here!" and then desperately shill in the interest of upholding this fanciful notion that is untrue of any place on Earth? Are they just fat people with emotional issues or something? Unless they're some kind of tourism industry shills, this is seriously pathological honk honk clown behavior.

>>507574078
Tourists deserve to be ripped off at every opportunity

>>507574057
>Most wealth these days comes from massive economies of scale.
No, most wealth comes from banks printing money for free and charging interest on it, or the government giving free money to their friends.

>The rich aren’t even richer than they were 100 years ago. John D Rockefeller would be worth a trillion dollars in today’s money.
Oh only a trillion in today's money yeah anon that isn't very much at all.

Everything else you wrote is superfluous. Eliminating banking and taxation, make fraud/lying in business an actual crime. The latter point includes selling the same commodity at multiple prices simultaneously just because it's packaged differently to insinuate that a nonexistent difference exists.

>>507560251
Based.
Deny them everything.

>>507559532 (OP)
Capitalism failed because of producer greed and consumer stupidity. Now we need price controls on everything to stop the vicious cycle of inflation.

>>507560251
Yet you still work and put your money in a bank, so thr kikes still have your money and your labor doing some stupid shit that props up the society that serves them.

>>507559532 (OP)
Supply and demand doesn't work if you have jews manipulating both sides of the equation. Who's controlling the water supply?

>>507559532 (OP)
>Why doesn't supply and demand work
In your image it does work, the hotel is the only supply inside the hotel, therefore they get to charge "monopoly prices" inside the hotel.

>>507574057
There are lots of cash poor, asset rich types here in the UK.

"lady in wellies" types who have to do a lot of manual labour on their land/farms, live in massive country homes that are in massive need of repair (or 75% of it is leased to the National Trust and opened to the public). All their spare money goes on putting their kids through private school and maintaining appearances.

>>507573299
can you recommend a good one?

>>507574332
No, it failed because instead of prohibiting lying and fraud, we allow the absolute maximum degree of deception and put the onus on the buyer to figure out what's real. "genuine leather" is a great example. IRL they would probably call the piss lemonade some specially defined term like "natural lemonade" or "water based" lemonade, since piss is natural and contains water.

Banking/lending is another form of fraud, namely the lie that you have to "earn" and "repay" something the bank was magically able to create out of nothing.

>>507574666

>>507574802
...that doesn't look like an economics textbook, anon.

>>507559532 (OP)
>Reeee, muh drinking tap water first world country, you peasants
AHAHAHAAA

>>507574332
Yeah, it's like direct democracy. If purchasing power is extended to the lowliest fucking subhuman trash then surprise, there's gasoline in the gummy bears. "I used piss" is masterful, like a gut punch.

>>507574844
I'm being a bit tongue in cheek but the book was written to be an intro course to CH Douglas's economic theories.

>>507574969
>Yeah, it's like direct democracy.
Yes, clearly the problem is that rich elites don't have enough power.

>>507574770
Huge swathes of the population aren't capable of figuring any of that out. They might as well be force-feeding them piss. It turns out a lot of the time you simply just need good men in a position to keep bad men in line.

No one thinks the water is a fair price, the idea is that some retard drinks or moves it and gets charged on their credit card at the end. Its a numbers game in that 90% dont catch it until to late and the ones that do they probably just concede

>>507575112
You believe you need some boss man telling you how to live?

>>507575032
There are billions of people on this planet that are completely incapable of self-governance. Evil people in positions of power just manipulate them, then give them the illusion of choice. None of this can be solved by any system of government derived from the hot takes of some faggot from the 1700's.

>>507563556
Mcdonalds is a pretty bad measuring stick, desu. Burger King has much better food and larger portions for the same price.

>>507574770
Diabetics eating "0 calorie" tic-tac's and there being no nutritional information on the packs that say how much sugar you'd actually be eating if you had a whole pack. At some point there does come a point where you can't reasonably expect a consumer to spot these tricks.

"juice drink" is a popular one in the UK. It's sold next to 100% juice but it's actually 10% juice, 90% sugar water and citric acid. "no added sugar" drinks that are 50% ultra sugary grape or apple juice too.

>>507575198
Do you enjoy living at the standard of the bottom quintile because the boss man tells you you're free?

>>507575277
>There are billions of people on this planet that are completely incapable of self-governance
99% of governance is just oppression. This statement is really "there are billions of people on this planet incapable of oppressing themselves"
Ok so what?

In reality, there are billions of people on this planet who wouldn't be alive without parasitizing the west. Stop paying for the 3rd world and the problem with sort itself out.

None of this can be solved by any system of government derived from the hot takes of some faggot from the 1700's.
Our country worked fine until we starting importing minorities, funding the rest of the world, and sold out to banks.

>>507575390
You didn't answer my question anon. Do you believe you need some boss man telling you how to live your life?

>>507574292
You have very poor reading comprehension. Not surprising for a commie

>>507575511
>Eliminating banking and taxation, make fraud/lying in business an actual crime.
This is communism? Are you retarded?

>>507575478
No, but then what do you nigger want?

>>507575587
uh, yes? Marx wanted the state to control capital, aka the banking system. No economy can function without banks

>>507575684
Have you read any of my posts ITT?
No more banking
No more taxation
No more fraud/lying in business

>>507575447
>Our country worked fine until we starting importing minorities, funding the rest of the world, and sold out to banks.
That's great. But there's a fundamental flaw: we're living in the present. Essentially, everything I've said has been in service of the idea that we specifically need someone who wields power to say "you jews can no longer dump industrial waste in the lemonade," and your response has consistently been "but that infringes on everyone's freedom of choice!" Well, guess what? The past several decades have shown us that the majority is not capable of making good choices, industry doesn't have to produce safe and healthy products, and in many cases the result is that everything is poisoned and you can't get your hands on good food, water, personal care items, etc. The bottom quintile were enslaved or in serfdom throughout much of history for a reason. In fact, in your cherished early days of the United States, those people weren't permitted to vote.

>>507575838
Plank 5 of Marx's planks of communism is state control of currency through a state owned central bank. I'm against banks in general; this is exactly the opposite of communism.

>>507574332
The reason it appears to be failing is because successive governments have allowed total monopolisation of most sectors of the market allowing a handful of companies to manipulate the markets at their whim. They stopped egg production and mass slaughtered chickens to drive up the prices of eggs, they did similar shit with beef to drive up the prices and now McDonald's is a luxury good. Socialism is state control and the state is ultimately responsible for the current out-of-control inflation.
The same people pumping nations with foreign migrants to increase property prices and lower wages.

>>507559532 (OP)
It works, you are just retarded, posting an expensive hotel does not change price and demand.

>>507559797
Public psyop'd by bottle companies. Only Niggers and Trailer trash drink bottle water

>>507559532 (OP)
>go to the CVS a 2 minute walk away
>get cheaper water
:O

>>507575910
>In fact, in your cherished early days of the United States, those people weren't permitted to vote.
But you're arguing this is a good thing. Now you're citing it as a problem? I thought these underclasses couldn't govern themselves. Or are you saying they are capable for governing themselves, but are oppressed by the government instead? Which is it?

>Essentially, everything I've said has been in service of the idea that we specifically need someone who wields power to say "you jews can no longer dump industrial waste in the lemonade,"
The people you want to put in control are the ones dumping waste in the lemonade. "The people" didn't put it there, the corporations/government (let's be honest it's a revolving door; we all know corporate lobbyists write the laws) put it there. Government literally puts the fluoride in the water, the proverbial waste in the lemonade.

>>507576118
But you don't even have to do this; delivery is free.

>>507575478
Do I need that? Not really. Does society as a whole need that? Absolutely. I'd rather live in a society where the food and water isn't poisoned because a dictator says we're not allowed poisoned food and water.

>>507576109
> posting an expensive hotel does not change price and demand.
ESL, but yes it does. The price the hotel charges in different than everywhere else.

>>507576201
Who's gonna deliver a bottle of water from a CVS for free?

>>507576262
I literally posted examples.

>>507559532 (OP)
>the desert has the water supply of an ocean, and only a few people in Los Vegas to demand it.

>>507559532 (OP)
Most businesses are subsidiaries of the same few trade conglomerates that have been quietly nationalized via investors acting as middle men so it doesn't look like the government has gone full gay fascist. They don't actually need to make money selling a product in most cases. In fact its better not to make money because then they're eligible for direct government handouts. I use to work for a big pharma company as a contractor and was often confused as to why their managers were trying to sabotage my productivity. So one of them finally explained they don't want to make money, its more profitable to not meet deadlines and get compensated for failing to meet quarterly expectations by the fed. Its been this way since Obama was president, they've been laughing at you ever since giving you dumb shit to care about when the problem is hiding in plain sight right in your face. There is no real market or economy anymore, just a planned one.

TL;DR you already bought the product with your taxes, they could charge anything they want for it but lean towards exorbitantly expensive pretty much just to torture and suppress the poor. See; Brussels.

>>507576242
You've got it backwards though. Companies are only able to poison the food and water (as opposed to being killed by angry mobs) because they're protected by the state. Needless to say, the nations with the most powerful dictators (China for example) have the greatest problems with poisoned land, food, etc.

>>507560251
>I don't eat out, and I don't travel. Just say no to their bullshit.

Try explaining this to sports ball consumers.

>The ticket prices are too high
>Well boycott/stop buying the expensive tickets; the prices will decrease
>If I don't buy it someone else will

6 months later
>I can't believe the sports ball ticket prices have increased
>Did you buy them?
>Yes but they are so over priced

>>507576441
Finally someone ITT with a brain. Producing goods and services is just a façade for which any price can be charged. What really matters is bringing in the ESG and USAID dollars.

>>507576118
this kills the average American

>>507559797
Yes, it's in a plastic bottle and probably has fluoride in it as well

>>507576114
The real psyop is the (((fact checkers))) citing shit brands owned by nestle and coca cola bottling shit-quality municipal water to mischaracterize the business of the companies selling filtered spring water from specifically named and managed springs to convince midwits that they might as well drink the tap water or the cheapest brand of bottled water, if need be. Yet another midwit swallowing midwit bait hook, line, and sinker who will uncritically parrot a narrative some shill served up like a hot plate of shit for the remainder of his life.

>>507559758
This is true capitalism. Capital has the power. That’s what capitalism is. Ayn Randian exchange is not what capitalism means or has ever meant. “Crony capitalism” is capitalism. It’s like saying “crony feudalism”.

<<<-----robbing the country to the tune of $2B/week

There is not a country on Earth that practices free market capitalism. The debt-based Federal Reserve is a con, plain and simple. God only knows what true capitalism, real price discovery and sovereign nations trading with each other in a free market would be like. Imagine sovereign nations issuing their own currencies. God only knows where we would be today, had the Federal Reserve and the IRS (both created in 1913, btw) never been created. No orchestrated booms and busts, no crony State Capitalism, no corporate tax subsidies, no failing IPOs, no QE, no counterfeiting Central Banks, no metal market rigging, no derivatives, no endless war financing. Only states were supposed to impose an income tax. We are so far from free market capitalism, it is staggering. This is the Federal Reserve Uniparty.

>>507561929
I moved from an area that sourced its water from an aquifer and it tasted fine. I gladly drank it. The new area sources it from a lake and it tastes like chlorine. It's awful and messes with the flavor of my coffee too. I know it's perfectly fine to drink, but the flavor is so bad that I just buy the gallons of water to drink and make coffee with.

>>507576692
Nigger as soon as your boutique bottled water company becomes big enough it will just switch to municipal tap and expect you not to notice. Unless you watched someone fill your specific bottle at the source and had eyes on it for the entire journey to your location it’s probably fake

>>507559532 (OP)
Can't you just go out and buy water outside in 7/11 or something?

Deflation and inflation and other economic terms are FUCKING MEANINGLESS when one class of persons HAS FIRST ACCESS TO and IS BEING PAID FOR the issuance of any newly-created currency. Money does not mean the same thing or have the same scarcity (or have the same value) for all persons in the economy. As some do not earn their money (via real productivity), money is more liquid and less valuable for them, as they have exclusive first-access to the newly-issued currency and they also decide TO WHOM it is allocated via our current debt-based NYFed primary dealer financial system.
As long as we have a cartel of private banks getting paid to issue the currency, the FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE will lose EVEN MORE value for those of us that truly do earn it via productivity.

IT IS THOSE OF US WORKING that choose to prop up this class of parasitic, skillless invalids debauching our currencies worldwide via the Federal Reserve and its increasingly-worthless private currency, the Federal Reserve Note.

US Treasury-issued, debt-free, fiat US Notes are the already-legal, interest-free sovereign currency solution to a debt-based currency and monetary policy parasite, the Federal Reserve Uniparty.

r

>>507576956
Ron Paul is out of the nursing home again guys, he keeps trying to put the radiator on a gold standard

I'm staying at this hotel in a couple weeks, it will be like 110 F there or something. How do I get water reliably then? Should I just drink out of the faucet? Is LV water safe from the tap? I guess I could just go pick up some water from the store.

>>507576468
We can see many European countries using the state apparatus to enforce much more stringent standards on the food supply, and the Japanese state enforcing extremely stringent standards on agriculture. You're failing to see that the masses have no interest in the quality or sefety of the food. The issue is beyond their scope of understanding. There's no anger about it. In fact, there was real anger from them in 2020 when supply issues caused a shortage of toxic factory farmed $.99/lb chicken legs and only $3.99/lb organic chicken legs remained on the shelves. "I shouldn't ever have to pay over $x/lb for x food," they say, thinking they're very clever. That's the extent of their discretion. The media is free to convince these people to make bad decisions, and the people are free to make the bad decisions, and we get the mess we're in right now, with record health issues and critically low birthrates. I doubt MAHA will go far enough, but the best course of action would be if they banned all the poisoned shit, and all the retards still felt smart, empowered, and free buying whatever they wanted off the shelf in the grocery store.

>>507576744
Derivatives are actually a good thing for commodities markets.

>>507559532 (OP)
Hotel minibars are a scam designed to steal money from unsuspecting tourists. The price is that high because it’s not clearly listed anywhere and the buyer doesn’t have the knowledge to make an informed decision. If there was a clearly listed price tag in front of the water, I guarantee you that not one single person in the world would buy it and they would quickly have to lower the price to a normal one.

>>507576318
I haven't read a single post above my first one

>>507559532 (OP)
it really doesn't. another thing is products no one ever buys that I see sitting on shelves un touched forever, those products will keep being made forever.

then something people love will come out and fly off the shelves and the company will stop making it

>>507576836
>tastes like chlorine
>perfectly fine to drink
According to a standard set by some faggot to ensure the current process doesn't need to be overhauled, sure. To avoid long-term health issues? Not really.

>>507577069
sovereign currency never goes out of style kek
pic definitely related
fucking 1791
why we shouldn't have a debt-based central bank

>>507559629
>supply and demand doesn’t work!
itt: retards who’ve never heard of luxury branding and S Pelegríno. You can buy it at Walmart for about $20 a bottle. Stop assuming it was Dasani.

>>507561647
He's Irish you nit

>>507577255
Case in point, thinking that the $7.99 poison chicken wrapped in green cellophane is better for you than the $2.99 poison chicken wrapped in yellow cellophane. That would be retarded, it would mean you were horribly uninformed about the sourcing of the food you eat and only made surface level decisions, but here you sit doing it.

>>507577407
>Derivatives are actually a good thing for commodities markets.
we can have normal commodity hedging without the now-bankrupt fed
<<<---$4.5 TRILLION in margin loans to speculate, this is exactly what caused the great depression

the fed lies about this and underreports it by 8X kek (yes i have that chart, too) lel

>>507577742
I don’t want to misconstrue things here, I’m all for abolishing the fed, that’s fine, no harm done. But you’re dumb if you think that abolishing the fed is going to save you from Bank of America. Banks control the money supply. That’s how fractional reserve banking works. All the fed does is use mind games (via interest rate manipulation) to push the behavior of banks in one direction or another.

You’re talking about a single cog in the terrible machine as though it was the machine itself.

>>507577953
speculate

>>507578137
>if you think that abolishing the fed is going to save you from Bank of America.
how you got here, i'll never know
i stopped reading there

a primer for you:
1 Congressionally-approved Public Issues treasuries for deficit spending via the issuance of marketable US treasuries sold by the NYFed’s primary dealers aka Debt Held by the Public (now ~$35 T)
2 Intragovernmental Debt GAS securities (aka ‘Unfunded Liabilities’) that are created/issued for currency to run public agencies (over $152 T now) and ARE PURCHASED WITH YOUR PAYROLL TAXES
3 The commercial tier 2 depository banking sector, it makes small loans in which only the interest remains in the banking system after the loan is paid back (the principal and repayments are destroyed when the loan is repaid) —this can remain when the Fed is dissolved
4 QE, this is fucking counterfeiting by the now-insolvent NYFed's primary dealers since 2008 via IOER (now called IORB) and we pay all sorts of interest on this, increasing every day with raising rates

do not confuse the tier 2 commercial depository banking sector (#3 above) for primary dealer security LLC firms (#1 above)

>>507559629
Are americans simply retarded to use tap water or something? or walk like 100 meters to no doubt another giga wallmart next to the hotel and get 5l of water? i dont get you people.

>>507577255
> record health issues and critically low birthrates
Neither have anything to do with the supply of chicken.
Health issues are because Americans are indolent and drug addicted. If everyone just went on a 30 min walk once a day and changed nothing else we’d instantly close most of the gap between us and Europe in terms of health.
And birth rates are a spiritual issue. Women are sacrificing their children on the altar of Venus. They are told to ride the cock carousel and not to settle down until their best eggs are spent. It has nothing to do with economics. The sexual revolution was a spiritual shift in people that will destroy every population it infects.

>>507559532 (OP)
business travelers who charge it to the company

>>507578137
>if you think that abolishing the fed is going to save you from Bank of America.
how you got here, i'll never know
i stopped reading there

a primer for you:
there are FOUR ways currency is created in the US:
1 Congressionally-approved Public Issues treasuries for deficit spending via the issuance of marketable US treasuries sold by the NYFed’s primary dealers aka Debt Held by the Public (now ~$35 T)
2 Intragovernmental Debt GAS securities (aka ‘Unfunded Liabilities’) that are created/issued for currency to run public agencies (over $152 T now) and ARE PURCHASED WITH YOUR PAYROLL TAXES
3 The commercial tier 2 depository banking sector, it makes small loans in which only the interest remains in the banking system after the loan is paid back (the principal and repayments are destroyed when the loan is repaid) —this can remain when the Fed is dissolved
4 QE, this is fucking counterfeiting by the now-insolvent NYFed's primary dealers since 2008 via IOER (now called IORB) and we pay all sorts of interest on this, increasing every day with raising rates

do not confuse the tier 2 commercial depository banking sector (#3 above) for primary dealer security LLC firms (#1 above)

>>507559532 (OP)
it's because demand has become increasingly unresponsive to price, because the average consumer is now a fucking moron

some guy at the sportsball game will loudly say "20 bucks for a beer, that's a fucking ripoff" and then buy two of them, and then probably two more later on that day

>>507578390
The Fed didn’t cause the 2008 housing crisis. You are acting like it’s one bad apple in a sea of otherwise good banks, rather than king shit on top of shit mountain overseeing the city of shit below.

The entire banking system is rotted. Not just the fed. You need to understand this. You need to understand the systemic failures of the capitalist system. You talk about the Fed buying US treasury bonds to prop up deficit spending but only 13% of the US debt is held by the Fed, meanwhile 42% is held by private investors.

QE is literally just “encourage people to borrow more/less”, the monetary manipulation happens at the level of banks themselves, the money multiplier is huge and the more money people borrow or invest the bigger it gets. QE is literally the Fed going “if we get people to borrow from banks more, there will be more money, how can we make them want to borrow?” so they lower interest rates. They aren’t the ones getting rich off of that con, the lenders are.

>>507578609
>tier 2 commercial depository banking sector
and while we are on this subject:

US credit unions and community banks (which are regulated outside the Fed and insured by their own pool) are the real economic engines of the local economies and are greater in number (5,000, not counting branches) than bank holding companies under the Fed (4,000 and getting fucking smaller every day as the NYFed’s primary dealers acquire the other bank holding companies and regional banks pic related kek)
If the Federal Reserve Note does crash, Americans can then move to the credit unions, community banks, etc, and we can then issue debt-free US Notes again for commerce, as they were intended to be. These credit unions and community banks also don't hold all the shit MBS and CRE debt, they are much more solvent.

>>507578423
>tap water

straight tap is questionable

also you have no idea how clean the pipes in that particular place is

you, yourself have ALL THE POWER
you can stop all this tyranny in its tracks by simply using cash and using your phone less (leaving it at home is good, too)

A reminder, Federal Reserve Notes are what are being issued to worthless oblivion and
>the US dollar is a fucking UNIT

We need to AGAIN issue debt-free, Treasury-issued US Notes like we did before (and during) the bloodsucking, obsolete Federal Reserve. We need to AGAIN issue debt-free US Notes that are pegged to a basket of commonly-used weighted commodities, distributed by a series of state banks.

We can:
1 nationalize Fed banks
OR
2 dissolve Fed and have a series of state banks
OR
3 issue US Notes simultaneously AGAIN and eventually recycle worthless Federal Reserve Notes out of circulation
OR
4 YOU CAN RIGHT NOW: use cash/barter/stack/use credit unions/use cold wallets, these five things IMMEDIATELY transfer power directly to the people

USE CASH, NO MATTER WHAT COUNTRY YOU ARE IN, cash IMMEDIATELY puts the power in the hands of the people.

Real paper cash:
>is permissionless
>is private
>is anonymous
>has no transaction fees
>works in power outages
>doesn’t need the internet
>don't need to be a coder to use it
>doesn't depend on another party having a device
>everyone knows exactly how much they have
>has no transaction limits or thresholds for reporting
>money laundering is harder with physical cash, due to transport
>is inclusive, it does not see race
>is harder to use in ransoms
>can’t be hacked
>don’t need to remember a password to use it
>IS the ultimate in payment platforms
>using cash helps people to save money and budget
>puts the power directly in the hands of the people
>keeps the currency near the REAL goods and services
>less paperwork
>is face to face, not face to screen
>makes government theft harder
>using cash forces the debt-based Federal Reserve to serve the citizens

Boycott businesses that do not take cash.
NEVER USE YOUR PHONE TO PAY.
Barter is the real torpedo to these fucking clowns.

Don't the citizens have a right to THEIR OWN FUCKING CURRENCY?

>>507578814
>You are acting like it’s one bad apple in a sea of otherwise good banks
never said this
>systemic failures of the capitalist system.
and this is state capitalism that we practice when you have a debt-based central bank, which is low grade communism (see my next post)

>>507577255
>We can see many European countries using the state apparatus to enforce much more stringent standards on the food supply, and the Japanese state enforcing extremely stringent standards on agriculture
These are the same regimes throwing their citizens in jail for mean tweets. Nanny states don't work.
Exceptional cases of good food standards Japan and to a lesser extent Europe are due to their cultural legacies, not the amount of power they afford their governments. Strip corporations of their government protections and let men sort it out. Plenty of people will want to destroy the plants putting corn syrup in everything; nobody is going to burn down the family farm producing healthy food. There's a reason people people say "fuck the police" and not "fuck the fire department".

Daily reminder:
The State Capitalist/Communist Regime of the Federal Reserve Uniparty

There is Free Market Capitalism, which we do NOT practice. This is when you have competition & the rewarding of success.
We practice State Capitalism (low-grade communism) in which the central bank rewards their buddies whether or not they are successful. They also launder their worthless Federal Reserve Notes into real assets while doing so, which are then held by their private corporation. This is State Capitalism.

Again, NOT to be confused with free market capitalism, which is probably only truly practiced somewhere in the Andes.

The Federal Reserve is a group of 12 private, incorporated, regional franchises (they can each be sued) & is the driving force behind the corporate takeover of our government.

State Capitalism (aka low grade communism directed by the central bank):
>the state has considerable control over the allocation of credit & investment
>planning to protect & advance the interests of big business against the interests of consumers.
>government controls the economy & essentially acts like a single huge corporation
>publicly listed corporations in which the state has controlling shares

The Fed con laid out in 105 posts.
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/306098770/
Correction in archived thread: change mortgagee to mortgagor

Fed info & links to house & senate crypto summaries:
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/329381702/

Criminal activities of the NYFed's primary dealers
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/342538518/

The NYFed investing in China:
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/359651784/#359683568

Ukraine & its owner, the NYFed: https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/373203255/

Fed thread: https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/389999787/

June 2023 Fed thread: https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/428705533/

The irony here is that we are, in real time right now, witnessing the failure of low grade communism, aka state capitalism.

>>507578700
It’s because women hold the purse strings. Women never shop price. They just pick the goods then want then complain afterwards about “pink tax” cause they bought the “women’s bottled water” for 60% more cause it had a pink cap on it.

Adam Smith was the first to shill for open borders. Capitalists have so much to answer for.

>>507559532 (OP)
Again: why not buy water bottle OUTSIDE the hotel?

>>507579056
I oscillate so hard between rooting for you and thinking you’re an idiot. It’s fascinating. Sometimes you’re saying shit that makes perfect sense and other times you’re saying phenomenally misguided shit. Like here, you’re saying “don’t use credit systems controlled by private banks, use the official currency note of the central bank I want to abolish”. I don’t get how that fits in with the argument that the federal reserve is the problem with the banking system. It’s a fine sentiment, remove yourself from the Visa-Mastercard network of global hegemony and pivot back to a system of exchange that can’t be as easily catalogued and regulated. But it’s really a maneuver against private banking.

>>507579429
we shouldn't be borrowing our own currency from these bankrupt frauds, it isn't that hard to understand
party is over
tick tock
>lazy skimmers dread real price discovery

>>507579250
Let’s just agree on two things
>do not trust any bank, especially a bank run by the government. The more central and powerful a bank is to the current economic hegemony the more evil you should consider it
>it’s a good idea to join a credit union. Small, participatory economic structures are always going to be more trustworthy than ones owned and controlled by absent rent-seeking interests looking to wring wealth from you like a sponge

And move on, because I feel like we basically agree here but reading what you write is giving me high blood pressure (how the fucking is banking communism you idiot? Communism is the abolition of property. What goes in the bank if you abolish property?)

for new anons:
The debt-based Federal Reserve (the Fed) & the IRS were both created in 1913.
The new IRS conveniently forced everyone to use their new Federal Reserve Notes to pay their new US Federal Income Tax.
The Fed was supposed to stabilize the US currency by backing every Federal Reserve Note (FRN) issued (TO BUY US TREASURIES) with 40% gold (40 cents of gold for each $1 FRN issued).
In 1933, everyone’s gold was confiscated by the Treasury (except $100 worth/person) b/c the Fed convinced US Pres FDR that Americans were hoarding gold & they were forced to trade their gold in for $20.67/ozt. Federal Reserve Notes were also now no longer exchangeable for gold.
In 1934 the Gold Reserve Act allowed FDR to establish the gold value of the dollar solely by proclamation & raised the exchange rate to $35/oz troy, extracting wealth & value once again from the American public.
In 1944, the IMF & the International Bank for Reconstruction & Development (IBRD) were formed at the Bretton Woods Conference.
In 1958, Bretton Woods pegs all foreign currencies to the dollar, & the dollar pegged to gold at $35/troy oz. Debt-based Central Banks under the BIS pop up all over the world to facilitate the Fed & the BoE in their check kiting, fractional reserve, debt-based central-banking ponzi.
In 1971, Nixon depegs the dollar to gold entirely, making the US currency free-floating fiat, which completely negated the original Federal Reserve Act of 1913, which was to back each Federal Reserve Note issued with gold.
In 1974, Pres Ford legalizes gold ownership again without limitation & gold is NOW valued at $42/ozt.
The NOW BANKRUPT Federal Reserve & its biggest shareholders, the NYFed’s primary dealers, for the last 50 years & up to today, continue to issue our currency out of thin air, while charging us interest to do so. Rewarding insolvent, failing banks & investment firms using QE and taxpayer $ over & over again, acquiring assets during crises, while rigging global markets.

>>507579429
>“don’t use credit systems controlled by private banks, use the official currency note of the central bank I want to abolish”
Yeah I feel this anon's heart's in the right place, but at the end of the day dollars are dollars. Sure cash doesn't have the surveillance of credit cards etc. but it still has the intertest attached to it when the bank issued it, same as the totally digital dollars.

The top priority needs to be eliminating debt based currency.

>>507579785
I don't understand what you mean (nor the importance of) the Fed being "bankrupt". Banks don't need assets to issue currency and never have. Creating currency when a loan is issued (as opposed to being an IOU for an asset, even fractionally) is the whole point.

>>507579744
>do not trust any bank
right off the bat, unrealistic
and i would say almost bank-runnish stupid
>use credit unions
yes

>>507579572
All currency is a state fiction. Real free exchange is entirely credit based, money is an invention of the government. It’s needed to supply soldiers. In real free exchange, trust is necessary, but nobody trusts soldiers marching halfway across the continent. You need to resupply soldiers, you need a way of guaranteeing they can buy goods even in a low-trust setting. That’s what money is for.

>>507559532 (OP)
>go to a casino to waste money chasing a fantasy if happiness
>it's literally a scam and they don't even hide it
>go to scamsino anyway to waste money and be gaslit into chasing an illusion
>"HURR DURR DURR WHAI ERTING SO SPENSIVE?!?!?" D:
gamblers do it to themselves

>>507566364
>lady just died from an amoeba in the tap water
why not to use tap water in CPAP machines, stomach acid will kill amoebas when you drink tap water, but the nose and lungs have no such defense against amoebas

always use distilled water in CPAP

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-woman-dies-brain-eating-amoeba-tap-water-sinus-rinse/

>>507579943
>e of) the Fed being "bankrupt"
they are insolvent and only paying themselves, specifically the failures and the frauds of 2008
again see pic rel
i got two threads coming on this and they are not pretty

Thread from Feb 6th 2025 194 posts
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/496654194

200 post thread from Nov 10 2024
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/487963430/#q487963430

the great irony here, is the more cash the public uses, the more it forces the Fed franchises to hold the interest-free fiat as liabilities (aka CIC cash in circulation) and thus, making US taxpayers’ dollars less available to be spent paying out the liabilities of IORB to primary dealers and interest on reverse repo transactions to MMFs

the fed is really $2T in the fucking hole if you use GAAP

>>507579966
Correct but it goes further than that. By requiring taxes to be paid in the currency you're issuing, you're creating the fundamental/initial demand for the currency. In order to get that currency, the population has to engage in tasks you want done (manufacturing weapons, producing food for armies, etc.) in order to trade for the currency. This is how it gets injected into the economy. Of course you in our system this is also done bank letting private banks create currency/loans to finance enterprises.

>>507559532 (OP)
What's exactly wrong about this? Go to a hotel bar then to alco store, compare prices of the same alcohol. You're paying more for convenience of getting that bottle of water without leaving the hotel, they sell maybe 5 of them a month to people who just don't care about the money.

>>507579966
>All currency is a state fiction.
kek
i fucking love this one
it's not such fucking state fiction when interest is due though?

>>507564064
this

>>507580262
Based fellow David Graeber enjoyer

>>507580257
Pretty sure I've seen your posts several times. You should use a tripcode or some kind of tag so people can find them.

>>507580357
Post redpills on currency, debt, UBI, social credit, economics in general.

>>507563243
>extorting people who are on fire is a good thing bro, muh phree market
See this is why kikes like you deserve to be thrown off a bridge

>>507580337
Sure it is, that’s why we’re worth negative 35 trillion dollars and people are still letting us borrow money. It’s all make believe. The government makes up the rules as it goes along.

>>507580257
>the fed is really $1T in the fucking hole if you use GAAP
pic rel
they are $2 fucking T in the hole if you count their mark to market losses

>>507580464
>$2 fucking T in the hole
But who do they owe? What bill is going to come due that they have to pay? They can create all the dollars they want. Like I'm not defending the Fed or anything I just don't quite follow your terminology.

>>507580452
it's called a reserve currency and the fed destroyed that, too

the fed was given the important job of issuing our currency and is now a bankrupt monstrosity only benefiting a small crowd of degenerate gamblers

The US dollar will be around LONG AFTER the Federal Reserve Note is GONE.

>>507580430
In the long term it probably is, if only because it creates an incentive structure to better fire protection measures and insurance systems. Every time the system goes “it would be unethical to allow you to be too poor to afford this” the cost skyrockets and quality bottoms out, because absolutely nobody is ever not buying. See: 2008 housing crisis, degree inflation.

In the short term, it’s peak kikery to haggle with the bucket of water in your hand. No question. But in the long term, if you get fires put out for free no matter how often you set them, how careful are you really gonna be with your cigarettes? (Obviously this is a flawed moral dilemma because even a fire put out quickly is dangerous and likely to damage valuables, but the principle is still the same. It’s moral hazard; you externalize the cost of your carelessness by saying rescue is an entitlement)

>>507580730
does it not bother you that the supposed economists in the nation don't know what they're doing? lol
your ardent willingness to excuse their obvious ineptitude and failure is just as bad their theft

some pasta for new anons:
>tech/greed/narcissism/corruption destroys humanity one person at a time
>people are surprised when the world turns into a superficial shithole loaded with people of low integrity, no skills and no standards

Watch as the Federal Reserve Uniparty owns, datamines, monetizes, surveils, and profits from every transaction on the globe:

today, most people are either:
corrupt (they are actively profiting)
compromised (someone is blackmailing them)
complicit (not outwardly doing anything illegal, but looking the other way so they may get theirs)
or
cowardly (they are too spineless to speak up)

We have all been living a horrible lie that only benefits those entities that issue the currency (24 international banks aka the NYFed's primary dealers) and those financial firms that they choose to fund.
This century-long, usurious scheme leads to a grotesque elitist class, inequality, misallocation of capital, and market rigging. This constant skimming by the privately-incorporated Federal Reserve Uniparty leaves the citizens downtrodden and constantly in need of new loans and taxes. Until the Fed has been abolished, we will ALL continue to devolve.

>just a slow, quiet descent into GLOBAL mediocrity, poverty and crime
>The NYFed, and its primary dealers — 24 private, nation-less, financial corporations, destroying the planet with national indebtedness, purposeful arbitrage and false scarcity

>>507580414
Read more Kevin Carson. Organization Theory: A Libertarian Perspective is an extremely dense book and sometimes difficult to read but it completely alters your thinking about bureaucracy, capitalism and the state. One of the most important books I’ve ever read. I wish Carson wrote like Graeber instead of like a textbook author.

<<<---lel

This is how a debt-based central bank destroys a nation, the Trojan horse is the Federal Reserve Note ITSELF:

>Be NY Federal Reserve whose primary dealers are market makers for US treasuries
>Zero allegiance to any nation; now bankrupt, unsustainable and treacherous
>Issues US debt-based currency in form of Federal Reserve Notes, which are quantified in units of US Dollars
>The NY Federal Reserve’s primary dealers CONFLATE their worthless Federal Reserve Notes with the $USD, while indebting ENTIRE nations and acquiring global assets into their private banking franchises, thus DRAWING IRE upon the United States
>Russia invades Ukraine
>Case-by-case, selective sanctions applied to Russia in the NYFed/BIS/IMF cartel’s SWIFT system (only allowing certain financial transactions to be cleared)
>Other countries holding Federal Reserve Notes BECOME AWARE that the Federal Reserve can just freeze/seize any nation’s financial assets out of the SWIFT system ON WHIM now (just like they can NOW give their fellow banking failures unlimited FDIC insurance in the US kek)
>In response to the NYFed’s selective sanctions, other countries begin to transact in their own currencies, further destroying the value of the already-overinflated Federal Reserve Note WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY destroying the US Dollar on the world stage, right along with the US treasury market
>Largest primary dealers (owners) of the NYFed have been investing in BOTH China and Russia ALL ALONG, as well as RIGHT NOW

tl;dr:
NYFed destroys the US Dollar by conflating it with their now-globally-devalued Federal Reserve Note, further weakening and subverting America economically, while simultaneously investing in other nations.

>>507580977
Based, never heard of this one. I posted For Us the Living earlier >>507574802

It's pretty basic but there's a decent set of videos on social credit here https://www.youtube.com/@douglassocialcredit7812
Hard to find thanks to youtube algos, as you can see from the view count.

US taxpayers paid the IRS $562 Billion in interest alone in fiscal year 2021 to borrow the Federal Reserve’s debt-based currency out of thin air in the form of bond debt
$562 billion
($562,000 million)
Pic related

How it is:
>US government needs currency
>US Treasury prints up some bonds
>NY Federal Reserve creates Federal Reserve Notes out of thin air and its primary dealers then buy said bonds from US Government
>US government now has new currency created out of thin air by Fed banks
>Now, US taxpayers owe interest (and principal) on said US bonds, as well as paying a fee AND DIVIDENDS to the NYFed’s shareholders, the primary dealers (the big banks), this is the ‘Public Issues’ portion of the US Public Debt

How it should be:
>Congress makes annual budget
>Tax revenues are collected and any budget shortfall (deficit) is then new debt-free US Notes issued by the US Treasury itself, no bonds needed, no US Public Debt to issue our own currency
Are Americans ever going to realize this fraud?

>when a generation sells the futures of their country and their offspring for unsustainable and lavish wealth and their offspring are too stupid to realize it

p.s. as seen in this image >>507580337, US taxpayers have also now paid $1.13 TRILLION IN INTEREST ALONE for FY 2024 to borrow our own currency from the private Federal Reserve. The interest to borrow the Fed's private currency has fucking ~doubled in the last three years. Let that sink in.

>>507580977
Carson provides pdfs for free of all his books, by the by. If you’re curious you can just read them online, you have the author’s support in the matter.

“The Homebrew Industrial Revolution” is also quite good. “The Desktop Regulatory State” is pretty good. I can’t get through “Exodus” though, and I’ve tried 3 times. It’s just like reading a fucking phone book. It’s like his writing gets worse with time

https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/505237484/
^^^ A thread about the NYFed and its ilk now trying to convince the boomers to switch from private Federal Reserve-issued, debt-based Federal Reserve Notes to privately-issued, debt-backed stablecoin tokens. This is going to be priceless to watch. Neither of these currency options benefit the citizens, they only benefit the private issuer. Will boomers sell out once again to the banks to save themselves from a failing system that they created? One last fuck you to the country as they insulate themselves in their private tokens?
And in the next orchestrated crisis, are the boomers’ new asset tokens to become worthless, as the payment platform is the ultimate claimant to any reserve assets in a crisis or bankruptcy?

When is the currency going to be restored to the people? Don't US taxpayers have a right to a debt-free currency issued by their own treasury?

>>507580977
Anther good one. People need to familiarize themselves with Werner's work in general.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1057521914001070

I think picrelated got made into a documentary or something too.

Money is often falsely equated with productivity, intelligence, class, success, integrity, and/or good taste.
If you equate success with money, you will likely be perpetually dissatisfied, in a constant state of longing.

But if you VALUE THINGS WHICH CANNOT BE BOUGHT, such as:
community
family
work ethic
intellect
fitness
perseverance
cleanliness
honesty
integrity
compassion
tradition
loyalty
reliability
patience
humor
If you value the above, you will always be content and successful, no matter where you are or what you do.
Judge yourself by deed, not possession.

Money does not make food.
Labor, Seeds, Land, Air, Sun, and Water make food— we have ALL of these things WITHOUT fucking money. If you remove JUST ONE of these items, YOU WILL NOT HAVE FUCKING FOOD.
MONEY DOES NOTHING BUT ACT AS A QUANTIFIER FOR FUCKING TRADE.
We cannot have unearned income AT THE EXPENSE OF earned income. Finance must be the servant of production, not its master.

these people are destroying the value of our labor

>>507559532 (OP)
I would be the absolute biggest asshole if I stayed at this hotel. Anything slack they did wrong, even if it’s something small, I would make a fuss about and demand a refund or discount. They would regret charging me $26 for a bottle of water I don’t give a fuck I would go full Karen.

COVID already showed us that most jobs are useless and there just so people need to work for their money, universal basic income could be a reality in first world countries. Everything worked just fine even without most people at work. Why? Because the truck driver didn't stop working, because the guy who works with delivery didn't stop working, because doctors didn't stop working, the only people who stopped working are people who are working bullshit jobs like being someone's secretary or doing administrative shit - jobs that can easily be done remotely.

While i'm still trying to carve my path and do something with my life, the theatrics of it makes me furious.

>Nothing is more useful than water: but it will purchase scarce anything… A diamond, on the contrary, has scarce any value in use; but a very great quantity of other goods may frequently be had in exchange for it.
The supply of diamonds is kept artificially low by monopoly.
The demand for diamonds is kept artificially high by kike's brainwashing idiotic women,

>>507580414
>David Graeber
cringe

>>507578836
we should have let SVB die
who the fuck buys long-term treasuries at ZIRP rates

>>507581273
This Ugly Civilization by Ralph Borsodi is also a classic

>>507559532 (OP)
They're paying for not doing post below.
Laziness has a price.

>>507560345
If only a person got off their duff and went to a store down the block.

>>507563521
The tap water in the east coast is some of the safest in America.

>>507559797
there's absolutely nothing wrong with tap water in most parts of the country

>>507581736
>who the fuck buys long-term treasuries at ZIRP rates
not janet yellen
she could have termed out a bunch of short term debt that was at higher rates into long term debt at lower rates so our debt would be less, yet she fucking didn't kek

at every fucking turn, they seek to fuck the citizen

>>507559532 (OP)
>appropriate
Think I found your issue.

>>507559629
Yes, that's basically it.
Economics can only determine that demand exists, and describe how it affects the allocation and distribution of material resources. But it cannot answer the question "from whence comes demand?". That is the purview of psychology.
And the answer psychology would give, if it was allowed to operate honestly, is that most people are NPCs, whose psychological desires, and therefore demands, are implanted by jew marketeers.

>>507559797
Varies a lot from place to place, but tap in the overwhelming majority of places is fine. People are retards

>>507563675
Wages for most peopld have risen more than prices for most things

>>507564970
Wtf how you niggers paying so much for bottled water?!? That same water and case here is only $6

>>507559532 (OP)
it does

they have the supply and you have the demand.

off to the next thread to resolve simple questions

>pic unrelated but you should read Works and Days by Hesiod.

>>507579836
>The top priority needs to be eliminating debt based currency.
amen

thanks all for the new sources and ideas, will be rereading the thread later and checking out all the titles/videos/authors

we must BE the standard that we want to see, these people certainly aren't going to be it for us

>>507567967
Nah, you're just being a simple brain. The water in question isn't just water, it's a conveniences for people who are temporarily prone to irrational behavior. Thus the pricing for a normal bottle of water isn't a sufficient substitute.

>>507581603
Read
>>507580414
It's just an entire book about why and how this happens. How much total precious human life is wasted doing absolutely nothing but propping up the illusion of contemporary capitalism. Digging holes and filling them in again, en masse the world over.

>>507579943
>I don't understand what you mean (nor the importance of) the Fed being "bankrupt". Banks don't need assets to issue currency and never have. Creating currency when a loan is issued (as opposed to being an IOU for an asset, even fractionally) is the whole point.
and none more thing, any other corporation in america wold be jailed for this level of failure and deception

The now-bankrupt Federal Reserve franchise collateralizes their worthless Federal Reserve Notes with US treasuries (aka securities).
The 12 Fed franchises are now bankrupt and don't have enough collateral to request more fiat. It is being suggested now to take regional Fed shareholder capital or even regional Fed owner’s assets to back their worthless Federal Reserve Notes under Section 2 of the Federal Reserve Act.

Every uncollateralized Federal Reserve Note being issued today is a lien on the assets (and shareholder capital) of the now-bankrupt NYFed's owners, including its largest owner, JPM.
How is JPM making record profits when the NYFed's private franchise ITSELF is ~$130B in the hole?
Why is JPM still being paid dividends when the NYFed is insolvent?

When money replaces actual success, only the sleazy will be rich.

>>507574292
No anon you see the rich are secretly poor. Nevermind the cars and houses they have, they are poor wagies like you and me.

>>507559797
i have a well and it tastes fine. id never drink city tap though

The complimentary fridges with paid beverages is also a joke in the states. There are some hotels that leave the "list of prices" in a weird spot with small font so you don't see it. When you check out and they have your credit card on file they charge you for what is missing. You end up getting hit with 10 dollars for a small bottle of liquor, 8 dollars for water, etc... It's a complete joke. It's mainly dumb tourists who think its free and they get a nasty +40 dollar charge for it. If i wanted something for convenience I would just eat it and then buy what i ate outside and replace it.

>>507561140
>the prices are high because hotel is bad because bad country
legitimising a bad situation by saying your country is fucked a whole isn't going to get you anywhere

just fix your fucking country and maybe you wouldnt be paying a fortune for bottled water

>>507574057
Missing the point. The reason to not want Jeff Bezos to be 5,000,000x richer than his employees is not because each one of his employees wants an extra $6. It's because the concentration of resources gives him outsize power which he uses for leverage to mistreat them. It's not "we don't have enough", it's "you have too much" quite literally. When you use violence and dishonesty to accumulate an outsize share of the resources for yourself, what you really accumulate is power, and it's the power over working people that we have a problem with. Or, more honestly, it's when you use that power to do things we dislike, nobody rises up to overthrow the Good King, but none of these rich kikes can help themselves and all behave like vermin eventually.

>>507559532 (OP)
Economics is not a science. Ignore it. Just another means for yids to pretend that they have authority over you because they made stuff up for a few decades.

>>507582887
> it's a conveniences for people who are temporarily prone to irrational behavior
Except that convenience of access of part of supply. Something might be available in another country, but shipping will bring up the price. Someone might have it locally, but they can charge more because it's more convenient to access. What I showed however is that equally convenient access is available basically for free. The price is based on psychological manipulation/scamming (which in fairness is related to your comment on their behavior being irrational). Just because someone is irrational doesn't mean its right to take advantage. That's the path of the "well they had a choice to get the vaccine and we technically telegraphed how dangerous it was so we aren't responsible" mentality.

>>507583571
>The price is based on psychological manipulation/scamming
The price of everything is based on psychological manipulation and has been since the rise of mass market advertising. The whole point is to create the sense that two products are not fungible even though they are, so that actual competition doesn't exist between them. Essentially, you generate monopolies out of thin air by convincing people that whatever you are selling is something exclusive to you, that nobody else can offer a better deal because what they are offering is in some way not the same thing.

>>507559532 (OP)
This is individual freedom.
This is entrepreneurship.
This is innovation.
Thus is economic growth.
This is capitalism.
What?
Do you not like capitalism?
Enjoy capitalism!

>>507559532 (OP)
>Literally Who? has a retarded opinion on social media!
Wow, I want to abolish private property now! Then we'll all be able to go to luxury resorts in Las Vegas for free!

>>507573651
everyone knows not to go near any of that hotel shit, nigel

>>507583834
you can have all that and cooperation between citizens
not sure what your point is

>>507583992
and this
that water is for the hangover of the drunk banker with the hooker and is charged to his company card
the only person that would ever ignore such a price is ONE THAT DOES NOT EARN THEIR MONEY

>>507584441
True, but surely you can see the problem when the economic landscape is a minefield and our approach to it is to say “bro, just don’t step on any mines”. Yeah, fine, as far as it goes, but we’re still walking around on a minefield. We still spend every day in a dystopian hellscape where around every corner there’s a crook trying to wring money from us through any con or extortion they can dream up, why should we settle for a society where constantly being on guard against these predations is considered normal? Why shouldn’t we go on being outraged about it?

>>507584746
>economic landscape is a minefield
once metaphors are used to explain, rather than substance, i stop reading
we need fucking facts and patterns of long standing fraud
i never said to be or not to be outraged, either
isaid we are being fucking robbed is what i said