There are no valid arguments for abortion outside of the eugenics position.

>>508357666 (OP)
the potential for life does not make it living. i do not prioritize the interests/well-being of the non-living over the real and tangible living-being that may be burdened with the pregnancy and/or responsibilities of said pregnancy if continued.

>>508358153
>a tadpole isn’t alive
Sure thing.

It's murder, but it can be done for good, like if a nigger rapes a woman. Anyone who claims it's not murder is just a woman/soiboy who just don't want to take responsibility for their mistake.

>>508358256
a tadpole is alive. the frog equivalent of a first trimester human fetus would be the fertilized egg.

would you say that every fertilized frog egg is a living-being?

>>508357666 (OP)
>abortion is child murder wah wah!!
>lol fuck no I won't adopt any children. i don't care if they starve to death

>>508357666 (OP)
Nobody claims that fetuses are not alive, you're building a strawman.
They're not humans, therefore you can do whatever you want with them.

>>508358153
There is no such thing as "potential for life." Life either exists or it does not. You do not have to prioritize one over the other because they are both human beings. The potential for a slightly harder life (that someone brings upon themselves) does not excuse murder.

>>508357666 (OP)
Abortion keeps the nigger population down. That's a win.

>>508358153
An unfertilized egg is an egg and we eat those for breakfast without having to kill anything. Once the egg is fertilized, it is alive, and the living organism inside of said egg will eventually hatch. Why this needs to be explained to pro-abortion murderers when they still just won't listen to it anyway is all the evidence needed for why they should be executed.

I've said this for decades, but the abortion issue is literally the most terrifying example of what you can get the masses to accept, and why the 80/20 rule continues to be true.

>>508359168
If it's not a human what species is it? Stupid arab.

>>508357666 (OP)
"Pro-choice" isn't "anti-life". The vast majority of people who support the pro-choice position don't *love* abortions. Few women actually *want* an abortion but do it for a number of reasons, many of an economic nature.
A better way of reducing the number of abortions than banning (which just pushes it into dangerous back alleys even for procedures which might be medically necessary) is to reduce the economic incentives which drive abortions so that a woman can be in a better place to choose life. That means policies which ease the costs of living in society, like better sex education to prevent pregnancies in the first place, economic safety nets, food programs, affordable medical care, quality public education, and an assortment of other programs pro-lifers tend to vote against.
Abortion rates tend to decline during Democratic presidencies and go up during Republican ones.

>>508359168
It's a human fetus. Fetus literally means "young one" in latin. Killing a fetus is tantamount to killing human children.

Since we're on the subject, I can think of only one valid argument of abortion, and that is if the mother has cancer that absolutely will go terminal and she needs medication that will kill the cancer but has the side effect of killing the child also and the child is not viable anyway. Most abortions are not due to rape or incest anyway, they're elective.

>>508359790
By legalizing something, if nothing else it sends the message that something is acceptable. I for one am okay with the death of people who try to get their own children killed. If someone tells you that you have a 50% chance of dying unless you kill someone, if it okay to "medically" assassinate someone? Not to mention that this represents less than 1% of abortion cases.

>>508357666 (OP)
I have a valid argument. Abortion should be legal, at the sole discretion of the father and until the fetus leaves the home and gets a job.

>>508360549
Incidentally, from a Catholic position, that's not even considered an abortion.
The primary purpose of the medicine is to treat the cancer. There is a principle in ethics called double-effect. The death of the baby is an indirect effect, which is acceptable - not directly intended.
So I'd argue even with your position you're very much still 100% pro-life.

>>508360818
I'm not really arguing in favor of legalization so much as the other programs I mentioned.
Eliminate the causes for doing something and you eliminate the excuses.

if you murder a pregnant woman is it considered as double homicide?

>>508361163
You don't think increasing the already excessive spending on SNAP and SS will encourage freeloading? This whole argument is moot anyways, as 96% of abortions are for elective reasons.

>>508359790
>The vast majority of people who support the pro-choice position don't *love* abortions.
They love them more than condoms.

>>508357666 (OP)
Rape babies should be aborted and the rapist charged with homicide.

>>508359662
Having the same DNA doesn't imply personhood.
Do you also call your fallen hair humans?

>>508361812
If someone held a gun to your head and forced you to pick one, would you rather have freeloading or would you rather have baby murder?
There are no black-and-white solutions. Every solution comes with trade-offs, some of which will be unacceptable. The tough part is choosing which set of bad-tradeoffs you're willing to live with.

>>508357666 (OP)
If you want to kill your unborn baby so you can ride the cock carousel and have fun then you shouldn't be a parent.
You probably should NEVER be a parent.
Lastly, whoever you're fucking that you would murder THEIR baby should either stop fucking you, or get sterilized so they will NEVER be a parent.

The future belongs to the breeders.

>ITT idiots arguing linguistics
Why would being alive, dead, or neither change anything about the universe, you're just describing how you want the universe to be not how it is
You're either working towards creating superintelligent AI or wasting time

>>508361081
>So I'd argue even with your position you're very much still 100% pro-life.

I'd certainly hope so. I'm Orthodox Christian, and have been all my life. Children are a gift, and are literally the most innocent among us. I can think of nothing more demonic than breaking the sacred bond between of a mother and her unborn child from within the sanctuary inside her. When a pregnant woman is killed, it's considered a double homicide. That alone should set the legal precedent for how we view the termination of an unborn child and all the nuances for the exceptions.

>>508357666 (OP)
>666

>>508361812
>96%
>69%
>Nice
Making up numbers again are we?

>>508362026
Hair does not have a distinct genetic code. The only time a unique genetic code is created is at conception.

>>508362026
I think most people would agree that having brain waves and a beating heart would qualify person-hood.

>>508362488
https://lozierinstitute.org/fact-sheet-reasons-for-abortion/

>>508362488
>If I ignore the facts and say it's made up that'll make it go away!

Literal ignorance

cannot pretend to give a shit about strangers' fetuses

>>508358153
>the potential for life does not make it living
This argument justifies taking the life of a sleeping person

>>508358153
>the potential for life does not make it living.

Literally no one thinks the potential for life makes a living thing. You're fucking retarded lol

>>508362673
Sure, but it takes 28 weeks for brain waves.
Who's getting an abortion at 7 months?
Is that even legal anywhere?

>>508357666 (OP)
If you're aborting a monkey, it's fine. If not, no abortion. That simple.

>>508362784
>Hurr durr here's a fake set of facts
You look retarded posting that shit, also check out Charlotte Loziers early life bitch

"The study was retracted in 2024 based on several factors, including unsupported assumptions, misleading presentation of data, and lack of scientific rigor. In addition, the retraction cited undisclosed conflicts of interest, as one of the peer reviewers was affiliated with CLI and all but one of the authors had undeclared affiliations with CLI or other anti-abortion advocacy organizations.[80] As part of the investigation, two other studies by Studnicki from 2021 and 2022 were also retracted over fundamental errors in study design, analysis, and data presentation, and an undisclosed conflict of interest from the same peer reviewer.[80]"

>>508363219
>he doesn't know

Retroactive abortions were literally enforced by the governor in Virginia. Listen to his talk about how the baby would be made comfortable and a discussion would ensue.

This entire board celebrates death but abhores abortion

>>508363776
>heh, you celebrate violent and evil kikes, niggers and sand niggers getting what they deserve, but don't like unborn kids being killed? hypocrite much? why the double standard?

>>508362784
Elective and unspecified reasons is doing a ton of heavy lifting there.

https://bmcwomenshealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1472-6874-13-29/tables/2

Now, I'm not saying most of these are valid reasons to have an abortion. I don't think so at all but they are understandable reasons that go beyond, "I just don't feel like having a baby today."
I'd argue that a lot of the reasons are economic in nature, hence my earlier point that we might do better to address the economic reasons behind abortion while working to restrict it rather than trying to outright ban it given that the majority of Americans support it being legal.
As I also stated earlier, yes, this comes with trade-offs. But all policies in life involve trade-offs. You assess the givens of a situation and decide what trade-offs you are willing to live with versus the ones you're not willing to live with. Given that we live in a society where the majority of people don't favor having abortion be illegal, it's going to be legal. Given that, which would you rather have: baby murder or small groups of people taking advantage of the system.
I'd take the latter over the former personally.

>>508363536
Deboonking without a source?

>>508363776

>Communists: defending yourself should be punishable by death

>People: bringing harm to children should be punishable by death

It's almost like there's some logic to it, huh? And one side makes more sense than the other.

>>508364032
I don't mind if it happens to other people or their children, but not ones that look like me!
I just think it's silly to see the pearl clutching
>>508364288
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_B._Anthony_Pro-Life_America
>>508364406
Cool spacing /u/anon

>>508357666 (OP)
For the past 20 years i have travaled from country to country for vacations. I use a needle to poke holes into my condoms, then i go to parties and pick up drunk girls, some times i hire prostitutes. I have fucked so many women, i like to think i got them preganant. Even if 50% of them got an abortion i should still have about 30ish children. Now i dont stick around to find out, but its something i like to think about.

>>508358640
>Literally yeah
Kinda like how various species of fertilized eggs are protected.

>>508357666 (OP)
>pro lifes after the baby is born: "I don't care about it anymore"

>>508358153
You conflate the potential for personhood with the potential for life. And I don't believe you do this on purpose. Which is worse, of course.

>>508358776
There are literally zero infants who are not adopted in the US. There is an extensive, multiple year, waiting list for them.
Your argument is completely and utterly invalid, and not based in reality.

>>508364278
This is a false dichotomy. We could simply not increase widespread "safety nets". Maybe a specific incentive to keeping the baby would help, but I don't think anyone will stop getting abortions because they get an extra $500 in the mail every month. In that case, the economically advantageous choice would be to get rid of the baby and collect the $500 anyway.

>>508364278

Killing children should be illegal. You can spin all the mental gymnastics you want, but the fact is that there will be fewer abortions by virtue of making it illegal altogether. Fixing the financial incentives may make a scratch in the numbers, a small dent even, but would be overshadowed by an outright ban on it. It would be even better if the women seeking (not just the doctors) it would be penalized. It would also force them to act right and plan their and take sex more seriously. Heck, it might even aid in the financial crisis so it's a win-win all around the way I see it.

>>508364899
You assert a false dichotomy yet you don't offer a third alternative that reduces abortions.
And before you say, "Ban it entirely," do realize that this is a losing political position that, if carried out, would cost Republicans elections for a generation given that most Americans support abortion being legal.

>>508364826
Not wanting 40% of your wealth to go to shaquisha's 8 kids does not mean you lack empathy for kids.

>>508364896
Most of the homeless population is kids kicked off foster care after being tossed around a dozen different homes their entire life with no skills or support structure when they turn 18

>>508358776
If there is no christian god, if existence has no inherent meaning in itself, i do not see why it would be a problem for me if unborn children die or if grown up children starve to death.
I there was a christian god, he would be sad if we killed unborn children or if we let grown up children starve, so there would be a reason to avoid doing those things.

>>508365057
How are you going to make it illegal when most Americans overwhelmingly support its legality?
How exactly do you believe Republicans go on winning elections after doing that?
That's wishful thinking, not a solution. "We could eliminate poverty if we just created replicators which could give everyone everything they need!"

>>508365288
Why do you think I care if republicans get elected or not? I operate on moral principles, not public support.

>>508365523
No, you operate on the type of black-and-white thinking that never solves any problems because you don't know how to address them in the first place.
All real life policies have trade offs. Some are acceptable. Some aren't.

>>508358640
Yes. Do you think it is dead?

>>508358153
So you disagree with the current legal protection of eggs of some endangered species? After all the egg is dead and the equivalent of a rock compared to you pro-abortionists.

The funny thing is I remember when “fEtUsEs ArEn’T aLiVe” was the big argument of the abortion crowd. Of course it’s a retarded argument and it was eventually dropped and now people are at least a bit honest and admit a fetus is alive but that the mother’s choice is more important than the life of her baby. When a pregnant woman’s baby is killed during a crime it is a tragedy but when that same baby is killed by the mother it’s a celebrated act of womanhood, freedom and personal choice.

Everyone should read “The Pre-Person” by PK Dick it’s good food for thought on this topic.

>>508365658
What policy would you be against even if there was public support for it? Is genocide okay if people think it should be legalized? Rape? Torture? Murder? (Oh wait, I already know you are okay with that)

>>508365334
I outright deny your claim, substance abuse is by far the largest factor contiuting to homelessness, nothing else even comes close.
But assume for the sake of argument that I agree, what does that have to do with killing children? Homeless people are free to suicide themselves if they want. They obviously prefer to be homeless instead of dead.

>>508365456
You do realize that the illegals (Catholics) flooding in the country are overwhelmingly against contraceptives and abortion, right?

>How exactly do you believe Republicans go on winning elections after doing that?
My allegiance is to God, not to republicans. The political parties in the US are controlled opposition anyway, and you're a fool if you think taking a side furthers your interests in any meaningful way.
And it's definitely not wishful thinking. This feminist experiment that's been going on in the US is collapsing. People are more miserable and broke than ever. Soon, things will get a lot more tough real fast, and when that happens everyone will lose their rights not just women. The US is overdue for a collapse because the tree of liberty hasn't been watered in too long.

>>508366063
Is this what you're going to resort to? Strawmanning?
I've said repeatedly throughout this thread that I'm pro-life. Given my choice, abortion would be illegal.
Now - reality is that it's legal. And it's not going to be illegal because most Americans don't support that. That's the given of our situation.
With that as the given, since you oppose addressing the reasons that women set out to acquire abortions in the first place (which are economic in nature), how do you propose reducing the number of abortions in this country?

>>508358640
is there activity in the fertilized egg like mitosis?
if there is it means it's alive, retard

>>508365658
>killing children is an acceptable trade-off

Let's cut the bullshit here. This is the hill you're on and its ugly as fuck. You're not going to convince anyone here of your positions.

>>508366148
>My allegiance is to God, not to republicans. The political parties in the US are controlled opposition anyway, and you're a fool if you think taking a side furthers your interests in any meaningful way.
This is good.
I address what I would say to you here - >>508366313

>>508359648
you equated personhood with evolutionary biologist, i.e. biologist definition of life that prioritizes genetic information, you stupid nigger

>>508366439
You might want to work on your reading comprehension.
The acceptable tradeoff is the inevitable freeloaders from trying to address the causes economically.

>>508362590
is killing identical twin permissible then? or does killing a chimera counts as killing two people?

>>508366439
I resent the fuck out of you for accusing me of supporting baby murder, by the way.
I'm arguing for reducing baby murder. I'm saying we reduce abortions by improving safety nets.

>>508366598
And defying public opinion for a more effective solution is too much of a tradeoff for you, apparently.

>>508366982
How do you propose to defy public opinion.
Yes, you ban it. Then you never win an election again, what you achieve is undone, along with any number of other things you support.
All because you wanted to be a moral puritan instead of actually addressing the problem. Bravo. Brilliant solution.

>>508357666 (OP)
there is a simple solution for pregnancy - DON'T HAVE SEX

NIIIIGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER

>>508366747
Identical twins do not have identical genetic codes and chimeras are fictitious. Second, the value of life does not come from genetic uniqueness per se, but that uniqueness is rather one of many proofs of life.

>>508367167
You're an npc who cannot comprehend anything beyond the kiked two party system.

>>508367474
Kek, give me a break.
The fact that you have to call me names and resort to ad hominem instead of actually addressing the argument speaks volumes about your intelligence and ability to think for yourself.
And you have the balls to call me the NPC. Go look in a fucking mirror.

>>508366760
Frankly I don't care how you feel about me. You're some stranger on the internet. You're wrong about improving social safety nets, by the way. If anything, it'll increase abortion. The poorest tend to have the most children and the richest tend to have the fewest. You could argue that the poor have more financial aid but that runs contrary to your narrative that financial incentives are a primary cause of abortions.

No. I think you're arguing disingenuously.

>>508367642
I destroyed every argument you provided and in the first place you accused me of
"operating on the type of black-and-white thinking that never solves any problems because you don't know how to address them in the first place."

>>508357666 (OP)
Eh, my position is the gunshot law. Abortion would be lawful in two cases:
>if meant to save a life of a mother that would be directly threatened she shoukd be prioritized (pragmatically speaking)
>if tied to a crime notification of rape
I just consider "termination of life as a service" to be amoral
(Pic related, though I didn't validate if it's real)

>>508367167
>Yes, you ban it. Then you never win an election again, what you achieve is undone, along with any number of other things you support.

You mean break the 2-party system? We cannot ban it fast enough!

>>508367860
>You're wrong about improving social safety nets, by the way. If anything, it'll increase abortion

Abortion rates go down during Democratic administrations. They go up during Republican ones. This is a well-known fact.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/25/what-the-data-says-about-abortion-in-the-us/

>No. I think you're arguing disingenuously.
Yet I'm the only one reasoning rationally, citing facts, and actually citing them.
All you're doing it going "nuh-uh" and accusing me of supporting the very thing I'm arguing we reduce while you offer no viable alternative solutions whatsoever.

>>508368115
Go take your meds. You didn't destroy jack shit. Crapping on the chess board and strutting around like you won doesn't mean you actually won, it just makes you a fucking braindead pigeon bro.

>>508368203
Glad we can agree on something.
But you miss the point. Any ban is going to be overturned and replaced with something much harder to ban.

>>508368613
>much harder to ban.
harder to overturn I mean.
And meanwhile, the abortions are going to continue in earnest because you don't address the root causes.

I'm moving on from this thread.

>>508368820
The root cause is degeneracy. Promiscuous women fornicating without a care for their child. If you want to fix the problem at its core, you ban contraceptives. Here's a stat for you. These charts are not coincidental.

>>508369369
The degeneracy cat is out of the bag. Much as the abortion one.
How do you realistically propose to put it back in the back exactly, in a way that is doable and not just fantasy?
I'm all ears. Really.

>>508369369
trvth nuke

>>508369559
Do you have anything to actually contribute to this conversation you started, or are you just here to cheer and jeer?

>>508369552
>How do you realistically propose to put it back in the back exactly, in a way that is doable and not just fantasy?

Importing 3rd world muslims en masse

>>508370082
*after banning abortions and installing a 1 party system

>>508369673
Been there done that

>>508370185
Funny, I said the same thing when I saw your mom

>>508370082
>>508370141
Based bro

>>508358640
Abortion is murder.
Billions of women are hell bound for murder.