Okay, /pol/. Substantiate god.

God does not take physical form stupid leaf, his proof is in every lifeform. Mine, a stupid jeet like you, Squidwards too.

>>508681494 (OP)
learn the definition of the word metaphysical

pay me first leaf.
I want CANADAID

>>508681580
>>508681647
If you can't prove the existence of god then you can't fault people for not believing in him either. In order to believe in god I literally have to travel inside your mind and gain your insight on him.

>>508681494 (OP)
If you believe in the cosmos then you believe in God. You are just fighting over what words define reality and your place in it.

>>508681827
Nope. I'm asking you to substantiate intelligent design.

>>508681900
Alright, are you capable of visualizing higher dimensions? A circle drawn on a paper being folded in half? These are perceptions out of the bounds of the observable plane for you.

>>508681701
What you'd find would make you believe in Him, I assure you.

>>508682037
That's not necessarily intelligent design.

>>508682093
Right, that's the problem.

>>508681494 (OP)
>prove faith
kill yourself if you are so sure there's nothing on the other side.

>>508682136
Wait, wouldn't I want to not kill myself if I believe there's nothing on the other side? If I'm enjoying my life now, why would I jeopardize that for non-existence?

>>508682232
if there's nothing on the other side and you are sure about it, then you won't even feel regret or missing out on dying you dumb retarded cunt.
do it come on.

>>508682305
But I enjoy being alive though.

>>508681701
your critique arrogantly assumes physics can evaluate things outside of its scope.

so, i repeat: go learn the definition of metaphysical

atheist faggot

>>508682419
No it doesn't. I'm saying the opposite. The atheist position is that we do not know what lies beyond the physical. You are the ones assuming that it is an intelligent design.

>>508682352
if you are dead and there's nothing how the fuck are you gonna regret it dumb bastard?

>>508682590
My concern isn't with regret, you fucking moron. I enjoy my current state of existence, why would I want to transition to a different state? Especially if it's a state that we're all going to inevitably face.

>>508682659
Here's the intelligent atheist ladies and gentleman
>hehe there's no afterlife!
>n--n-n-no! im afraid of the afterlife!!!

>>508682518
>just wants to argue
you are literally autistic and keep assuming god is a physical being to be disproved. his kingdom is not of this world faggot

all you atheist fags are the same way, we explain clearly that god is not a literal dude floating in the clouds, and you guys think you are genius because people can't prove god in a lab.

>>508682136
Are you insane? It would honestly be better if there was nothing. Heaven is filled with niggers. 83% of African Americans are Christian and only God knows how many actual Africans. I'd rather be writhing in agony in the pits of hell for all eternity than spend one moment of my afterlife dealing with nigger fatigue. Death was supposed to be my escape!

Sure they'd be in hell too, but at least I could smell the fuckers roasting alongside me.

>>508682095
Do you not even see yourself as capable of design? You are part of a system that creates things. You have created things all your life.

>>508682782
Enjoying my current life is a fear of death? That's retarded.
>>508682790
Retard, the assumption is that god is INTELLIGENT DESIGN. If you're just going to be an obtuse faggot who thinks that "the universe" is synonymous with "god" then there's no conversation to be had. You just have a retarded definition of god.

99.9% of people assume you're talking about INTELLIGENT DESIGN when you're talking about god. I am asking you to substantiate INTELLIGENT DESIGN.

>>508682856
jesus said wide is the path of destruction, and straight and narrow is the path to the gates of heaven. just because someone says they are christian doesn't mean they will go to heaven. in fact, most will not because as you mentioned, most of them are sinning faggots. also you aren't gonna convince me niggers aren't animals and thus don't even have souls

>>508682905
I don't know what that has to do with anything.

Christians not off to a good start, folks.

>>508683000
I’m not a Christian. I am explaining to you how the micro and macro worlds of conciseness collide. Creation is part of existence.

>>508682931
you are a complete fucking retarded faggot. if you die, you will feel nothing at all, no joy nor sadness, how the fuck are you gonna "feel bad" about missing out on life? I cant believe how motherfucking stupid you can be, you dont even have an argument and just admitted you are afraid of death, you dont know whats on the other side and you are a coward plu being an idiot.
but thanks for agreeing with me that afterlife is real.

>>508682931
nope. never said the universe. again the universe is measured physical tools. you still can't comprehend god but it's not surprising, most atheists are indistinguishable from materialistic communists which is why they love faggotry so much

god created the physical ≠ god is part of the physical

faggot

>>508681494 (OP)
I think God is the feeling I get when I cum, but maybe that's just me.

>>508683000
>claims to only hate religion
>immediately trashes christians
most normal faggot atheist self-hating westerner

>>508683192
>Worship jews
No

>>508683192
We should all practice self love, it's the closest you can get to experiencing his presence.

>>508683070
Right, and I'm asking you to substantiate intelligent creation on a macro level.
>>508683083
My concern isn't "feeling bad" about it after the fact. My concern is complacency. I am complacent with my current state. Hell, what if I'm wrong and there is a god? Then I'd be doubly fucked. Any honest atheist will tell you that death is scary, solely because we're not sure what happens after we die.
>>508683106
If you are not capable of substantiating god because he is "beyond measure and beyond the physical" then what are we even doing here right now? Why did you enter the thread if you can't even challenge my assertion?
>>508683192
I don't hate religion. I am completely neutral towards religion as a whole. I dislike immoral actions done in the name of religion.

>>508681494 (OP)
God*
Christ is King
If this makes you seethe, you are a modern day Pharisee or brainwashed Shabbos goyim. I will pray for you.

>>508683297
yeah, christianity is really about worshiping jews

1 Thessalonians 2:15 = "The Jews are the enemy of all men."

faggot

>>508683362
So you know how low IQ blacks can't answer the breakfast question? /pol/ is essentially the same way. They literally cannot comprehend that an atheist has no allegiance to Jews, because that shatters their rhetorical narrative.

>>508683346
>typing this much
it's funny you think people will read your soulless worldview that hard. just came in here to point out your retardation, and after your shifting goalposts and gaslighting i refuse to be further acquainted with the unequally yoked

have a nice faggy life before burning in hell

>>508683481
How do you know that I'm retarded if you aren't even reading my post? For all you know I could have the most convincing argument in the entire world, and you wouldn't know.

>>508683408
Romans 1:16

For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one who believeth, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Wow, nice jew worship, faggot. Jesus was a jew

>>508681494 (OP)
Pray with a honest heart and repentance, and you will see...

>>508683346
>Hell, what if I'm wrong and there is a god?
so not only a retard, but a coward.
alright

>>508683780
Wouldn't god be more angry at a person feigning Christian values to get into heaven over somebody sincerely being an atheist?

>>508683866
>God can't tell if you are being honest or not.
keep digging yourself into your stupid-hole

>>508684015
What? I'm literally saying the exact opposite, retard. I feel like god would be more angry at me if I pretended to be a Christian to get into heaven.

>>508681580
That's like saying life forms are proof of kanna or gnaka. I don't even know what any of that is, they're completely random abstractions I made up 2 seconds into this post that any religious person from some random tribe has an otherworldly concept for. Existence is proof of nothing but existence itself, not some kind of higher form that created it with zero explanation behind it.

>>508684100
And you would be right. There are people who proclaim to be Christians who do far worse than people who are atheists.

>>508681494 (OP)
Here's my evidence for God...

As we know in this reality, everything that exists has a cause. The first cause we are able to observe is the big bang. It's impossible to see before it.

Either the big bang was the first cause, or something caused the big bang, that we will never know.

So, how is there God?

I pose that this world was intentionally created.

We don't know why the big bang even happened, it just did. I believe that an intelligent being intentionally made the universe. Going from a state of inactivity to activity implies choice and intentionality.

Put simply, the first cause of the universe happened. Because it happened rather than not happening, it was an intentional act from an intelligent being.

>>508684348
I'm not seeing the connection between the first cause and god. For all we know the big bang could have just been a result of some other chaotic, unintentional event.

>>508684348
The universe didn't begin. It's eternal

>>508684348
There is no actual evidence. Only faith. You can't reach God through observance. You can see things for yourself, and that will be evidence (more than) enough for you. But you can't prove that to someone else. To get some evidence you really need to make some effort personally. Seek and ye shall find. Ask and it shall be given to you. Knock and the door will open.

>muh first cause

If one being outside time and space can exist why can't there be several. You already set belief that uncreated entities can exist

>>508684684
Do you not find it kind of fucked up that millions of people are destined to go to hell, solely because they were unable to find god? Even if they lived a virtuous life?

It's you who needs to not us.

>>508684453
I believe it's God because the first cause chose to act, rather than not act. There must have been a reason behind its choice. If you attribute it to chaos, a previous cause, then you just beg the question of what then caused that chaos. Therefore I believe there was a single ultimate entity with internal rationality that chose to create rather than not create.

>>508684859
I, an atheist, need to prove the existence of god to you, a supposed Christian?

>>508684935
>I believe it's God because the first cause chose to act
Already your premise is flawed. The word "chose" implies intent, which you cannot prove.

>>508684822
God is far more merciful than you make him out to be. Do you see all the bad things that happen in this world? How could they happen? How could God allow it? That's how far God's mercifulness is. Living a virtuous life is nothing but vanity. It's like you said: some people who proclaim to be Christians, look up to God and say, "look at all these good and great things I have done, surely I have a free ticket to heaven after this, and I am much better than this". That is not, I believe, the right way to go about things. Remember that Jesus Christ came to this earth for the sinners, not against them. Yeah, I get it, it can get hard to understand, but at the same time it really isn't.

>>508685231
Then it sounds like god is actively malicious.

>>508681494 (OP)
God is an extraterrestrial

>>508681701
In order for you to tongue my anus you need to be close to me but do you think I'd let a nigger do that?

>>508685433
Very mature.

>>508685275
All things are born from God. Good and bad. It is what it is. However, bad things also happen for a reason.

>>508681494 (OP)
You think that's coffee you're drinking?

>>508685493
>However, bad things also happen for a reason.
Elaborate on that. I know what I'm saying sounds loaded, and I don't intend it to be: if a child has cancer what is that purpose? If a tsunami destroys an orphanage what is that reason? Keep in mind, colloquially when someone says bad things happen "for a reason" the assumption is that it was just or righteous for that bad thing to happen.

>>508685275
Don't let abrahamic christjews gaslight you from your natural perception

Thy worship the demiurge

>>508685632
>if a child has cancer what is that purpose? If a tsunami destroys an orphanage what is that reason?
You can't understand God on that level. You can only have faith.
>Keep in mind, colloquially when someone says bad things happen "for a reason" the assumption is that it was just or righteous for that bad thing to happen. Whatever justification I come up with, it will always be from the mind of a man.
No, not always necessarily always just or righteous. Life is full of plenty of unfair things happening. What I believe is that the time we spend here is fleeting. The best yet to come maybe just happen after death. But we still have to make our time here on earth. God knows what happens after each of our deaths, we don't.

>>508684969
to prove it we would need to inspect the first cause's mind, which yes, is impossible to prove

however I think the evidence is convincing that because they ultimately caused our existence, so they had the faculties to make something awesome

>>508685954
>to prove it we would need to inspect the first cause's mind, which yes, is impossible to prove
Not necessarily. You just need to prove intent, which can be completely divorced from the first cause's mind.

You’re asking for empirical evidence on something that is intrinsically unobservable by means of the five senses. Unless you will concede that intuition is a plausible mechanism for discernment, then we cannot have a meaningful discussion about this topic.

>>508682790
>god is not a literal dude floating in the clouds
Even though there are passages of Jesu going up into the clouds.

All you're saying is your "God" lives in make believe land but use the term metaphysical to make it seem smart when it really isn't

>>508686102
>You just need to prove intent, which can be completely divorced from the first cause's mind.
If its intent was fully divorced from its mind then it would be an external cause. You're just begging the question.

>>508687835
No I'm saying YOU can substantiate intent without inspecting the first cause's mind. If YOU, an INDIVIDUAL, commit to an action, I can intuitively guess your intent.

I find Your lack of faith disturbing.

>>508685663
Unfortunately, pic related jumps to some conclusions. What if God is both able and willing, but nevertheless evil must come to pass? What if evil exists so that each of us have the possibility to get to know that there's a good nature in God? If it did not exist, would our souls spend eternity in doubt whether our existence can be good? These are not easy answers that can come from doctrines of men.

>>508687910
you can only infer intent from logical assumptions is what you're saying

>>508688440
>What if God is both able and willing, but nevertheless evil must come to pass?
Then you're conceding the first point, and he is not omnipotent.

>>508688600
Yes. The problem that religious people currently face is that they have no action to draw from to assume intent. All of god's "actions" can just as easily be explained as a result of chaos.

>>508688614
Or so you say. What if God actually wants us to have a measure of free will? Therefore, he won't force us into doing that, therefore evil must come to pass first. It's easy to jump into conclusions.

>>508688877
How come god can't create a world that simultaneously has free will and no evil?

>>508688698
the only way that theory makes sense is if you assume the existence of other universes and the idea that we are just one with the right conditions, which still begs the question, and assumes a lot

>>508688985
>the only way that theory makes sense is if you assume the existence of other universes and the idea that we are just one with the right conditions
I don't see how. You don't need to assume other universes in order to believe that the universe is the result of spacial chaos.

>>508689073
for it to be a rational belief you would

>>508689169
How?

>>508681494 (OP)
>Okay, /pol/. Substantiate god.
Refute or explain the Golden Ratio and I will.

>>508689402
How does the Golden Ratio substantiate intelligent design?

>>508689193
because you have to explain how our universe formed out of chaos, the most logical way to fill that gap is to say we aren't the only universe

>>508689539
>How does the Golden Ratio substantiate intelligent design?
Show me the man who created it and then show how you can change it to be what you will it to be. If you can't, please explain why this truth exists outside of man, without it needing a creator.
https://youtu.be/IX2bE-OBtwk?feature=shared

>>508689554
It doesn't have to necessarily be other universes. It just has to be something which precedes the Big Bang, right?
>>508689679
>If you can't, please explain why this truth exists outside of man, without it needing a creator.
Cosmic coincidence.

>>508688964
Who says he can't? As far as I am concerned, we could literally be heading towards it.

>>508689833
>Who says he can't?
If he can, but chooses not to, then he's malicious. He is deliberately inflicting suffering.

>>508689760
>It doesn't have to necessarily be other universes. It just has to be something which precedes the Big Bang, right?
Exactly, it begs the question.

>>508689972
I'm trying not to strawman you, so let me try to reassert your position, and let me know if I'm being inaccurate:

Are you saying that I believe that whatever preceded our universe had to result from a different universe?

>>508689899
>but chooses not to
You're jumping to that conclusion. Perhaps all this suffering must come to pass first if we are to have free will. Or would you rather not have free will? He could end all this suffering in a blink of an eye, and tell you "Hey, I'm God, believe me, and I'm good", and you have no choice in the matter. That's another fjumping to a conclusion from that pic related. And what I'm saying is not necessarily what is going on either, I'm just stating a possibility. It could be something else entirely. But it's not outright the "God is malevolent" outcome you speak of either.

>>508689760
>Cosmic coincidence.
It takes more faith to believe in that than God. There is way more proof a creator exists than it be a happenstance of nothing. And since man can not create nor destroy matter, logically it follows that man is a creation rather than a creator. Which requires their to be a creator.
https://youtu.be/6Cs3Pvmmv0E?feature=shared

>>508690283
>It takes more faith to believe in that than God.
No it doesn't The Occam's Razor is that the universe is a state of perpetual chaos.
>>508690272
>Perhaps all this suffering must come to pass first if we are to have free will.
But why? That seems completely arbitrary on god's part.

>>508690118
>Are you saying that I believe that whatever preceded our universe had to result from a different universe?
Are you saying that something can come from nothing?

>>508690407
>The Occam's Razor
I don't have to believe anything you can't prove. Doesn't mean I won't. Only that I don't have to.

>>508690407
>But why? That seems completely arbitrary on god's part.
I have already told you one possibility. The question of free will. It's up to you if you want to believe that or not. Maybe you want to believe God is just plain evil. Heh, i'm still pretty sure he loves you regardless. Then there's that, that perhaps love is the foundation of the universe. You ought to stop asking why and have faith. Seriously. But that's just my advice.

>>508690440
Potentially, yeah.
>>508690546
No but you're saying that I'm relying faith more than you, which is an untrue statement. Religious text is disproven at every single turn, to the point where almost all religions need to "modernize". I'm assuming you mix fabrics. I'm assuming you eat pork.

>>508688877
>What if God actually wants us to have a measure of free will?
Then he wouldn't give you an ultimatum

>>508690118
I'm saying that it's hard to explain how chaos resulted in order without assuming survivorship bias, because we don't know about all the other times chaos didn't result in order

>>508690673
>Then there's that, that perhaps love is the foundation of the universe
An ultimatum isn't love.

>>508681701
The universe itself is the proof, idiotic chink

>>508690864
Not really. It means you don't know so God

>>508690969
STFU retard, kike rat

>>508691194
>STFU retard, kike rat

>>508690724
>Potentially, yeah.
Once you can prove that, I'll consider your position further.
>>508690724
>No but you're saying that I'm relying faith more than you, which is an untrue statement
It's very true due to your previous statement of 'Potentially, yeah'.....when does the universe derive it's potential?
You are like an electron of electricity arguing that the electrical generation station doesn't exist.
And to claim that man's imperfect understanding of God somehow negates the existence of God is a fallacy that should get you banned from 4Chan.

>>508690734
>>508690803
You mean what's said in the Bible? That you'll burn forever and ever in hell? God forbid that I say something that goes against his will, but maybe we are looking at some things that are the doctrines of men. I look at what happens in the world in our present day, and I see something far from an ultimatum. What happened to me personally, I came of my own volition. After a good degree tribulation, yes, but no pastor or book told me to do so. And so, as far as my cognition tells me, I will go with that for now. Abraham didn't have a Bible to guide him through life. Nor did Moses in the wilderness, aside from the 10 commandments written in stone. You say you're being forced to, I say there is no life without God, because that's just how it is. It's a mathematical impossibility, if you put science wording into it We're all meant to turn our eyes to God one day, because that's just what life is. There's no use going around about it, it's just what it is. We wouldn't be here if were otherwise. And it's not even about being forced, it's just what is. You can put a blindfold and say it's not all you like.

>>508681494 (OP)
Zeus?