Russia had frequent brutal famines long before socialism so what makes the «holodomor» special?

>>508683351 (OP)
Because it was done by jews against Christians specifically

because its a source of khohols victim complex

>>508683351 (OP)
so did most other countries, british food is famously comparable to dogfood because of their famines.

>what makes the «holodomor» special?
as >>508683583 said, also its a good fit for the current narrative

>>508683583
>flag
oh okay i see lol

>>508683351 (OP)
In these other famines did the government go around literally taking the food away from people?

>>508683783
you will beg

Large amounts of the German farmers who lived in Ukraine died. These were the most efficient farmers in the world. Imagine how much larger the global German population would be if it weren't for this and the two staged World Wars.

Canadian Douglas Tottle did a 1987 book denying the Ukraine starvation 'Holodomor', as based on a mish-mash of Hitler-Nazi propaganda plus Hearst media fanatic anti-Bolshevism
Tottle's 'Fraud, Famine, and Fascism: The Ukrainian Genocide Myth', is free online here
http://www.rationalrevolution.net/special/library/famine.htm

>>508684940
>to (((harvard)))

>>508683351 (OP)
What makes it special is that it was a manufactured famine, the people growing the food were having it taken from them and not being left enough to survive, and the overall shortage in the SSR was more due to mismanagement than any natural cause. It’s one thing to starve to death because it is impossible to provide for yourself, it’s another to starve because someone decided you don’t need any of the food you grew.

>>508683351 (OP)
Holodomor was fake and gay glowie propaganda from the Cold War

>>508683783
Stalin ate all the grain and paid the clouds not to rain

>>508683351 (OP)
It's the Western trope to show muh Soviets bad but when you mention the Irish famine then it's "oh well you know, terrible business, yes indeed it was a natural disaster nothing could be done".

>>508683351 (OP)
Give them this reason to unify, nobody really care except them. Russians died of this, Germans and Tatars too but somehow it is their genocide.

>>508683783
Yes, namely Irish famine

>Russia has 100's of chess grandmasters
>they all fail to beat one norwegian man

>>508687062
Didn't the kikes did the same with the holohoax?

>>508684940
Just look up demographics of Ukraine on Wikipedia
The famine happened but the numbers are exaggerated seven fold

>>508686609
>glowie propaganda from the Cold War

"Famine Exposure: Newspaper Articles relating to Gareth Jones' trips to The Soviet Union" October 1932, 29th March 1933.
"The Price of Russia's 'Plan': Virtual Breakdown of Agriculture". From our Moscow Correspondent. The Manchester Guardian. 12 January 1933, pp. 9–10.

"The Soviet and the Peasantry. An Observer's Notes. I: Famine in North Caucasus". The Manchester Guardian. 25 March 1933, pp. 13–14.

>>508683351 (OP)
It's always about land ownership.

>>508683351 (OP)
Because it was purely ideologically motivated and also specifically targeted the peasants who were resistant to communist ideology. Communists wiped out a lot of European ethnic groups during their time, mostly in East Europe.

>>508687072
Yes, Holodomor and Irish famine are similar in that both had objective to break a specific ethnic group and peasants to control them.

>>508687002
Bruh I’ve never talked to anyone that said that the Irish famine was unavoidable. It’s arguably one of the factors that lead to them breaking away from the UK.

>>508688570
My point is that if you look up both, in the West the Irish famine is downplayed and Holodomor is boosted up
Also shills like Peterson or Morgan never talk about it but they always talk about holodomor

>>508683351 (OP)
Cos its hohol jews kvetching it into anudda shoa

>>508683351 (OP)
>Russia had frequent brutal famines long before socialism so what makes the «holodomor» special?

>1. To equate the value of collective farm and cooperative property (crops in the fields, public reserves, livestock, cooperative warehouses and shops, etc.) with state property and to strengthen the protection of this property from theft by all means.
>2. To apply as a judicial repression for theft (theft) of collective farm and cooperative property the highest measure of social protection - shooting with confiscation of all property and with its replacement under mitigating circumstances by imprisonment for a term of not less than 10 years with confiscation of all property.
>3. Do not apply amnesty to criminals convicted in cases of theft of collective farm and cooperative property...
>4. Wage a resolute struggle against those anti-social kulak-capitalist elements who use violence and threats or preach the use of violence and threats against collective farmers in order to force the latter to leave the collective farm, with the aim of forcibly destroying the collective farm. Equate these crimes to state crimes.
>5. Apply as a measure of judicial repression in cases of protecting collective farms and collective farmers from violence and threats from kulak and other anti-social elements deprivation of liberty for a term of 5 to 10 years with imprisonment in a concentration camp.
>6. Do not apply amnesty to criminals convicted in these cases.

>>508687319
>the numbers are exaggerated seven fold
nope, here's the figures from the 3 soviet censuses and the change in the ethnic Ukrainian population from 1926 to 1937: -15.3% (- 4 773 764 people), during the same period the ethnic russian population increased by 20%. Tell me again the famine wasn't ethnically targeted?

the 1937 all USSR census was postponed 4 times, from 1933 to 1937!

"The multiple delays were most probably explained by the reluctance to show the demographic results of the famine of 1932–1933"

>>508689819
I forgot the link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1937_Soviet_census

>>508683351 (OP)
False
>>508689819
Self identification

>>508683351 (OP)
>holodomor

fake shit.

>>508683583
>>508683351 (OP)
literally jews are finishing hte job and killing all ukrainians.

everyone is fine with this for some reason

>>508689819
>From 26 to 37
That's 11 years. You don't know if the famine was the only reason, it probably wasn't
>Emigration
>Migration within the USSR
>Decision to identify as "Russian" rather than as "Ukrainian".
All those phenomena are observable in any country, start with the USA
>Tell me again the famine wasn't ethnically targeted?
Kazakhstan also suffered from famine and other ethnicities lived in Ukraine that were also struck by famine.
It literally doesn't meet genocide definition

>>508690316
>Self identification
that explains the 4 postponements of the planned 1933 census, Stalin wanted Ukrainians to switch to identifying as russians? lmao

>>508683351 (OP)
The Holodomor is an attempt to copy the Holocaust, even going so far as the similarity in name, in order to boost the cause of the Ukrainian diaspora.
Extra chutzpah points because the people who came up were closely related to those Ukrainians who participated in the Holocaust, and then denied the Holocaust, and then came up with their own version where they are the victims for gibs.

>>508690758
>The Holodomor is an attempt to copy the Holocaust
I know you're a Jew but holodomor was 10 years before holocaust, if anything Jews copied it and not the other way around

>>508690723
You are either disingenuous or stupid. They didn't want to show the population growth being lower than it should have been not that the hohol percentage was lower, no one cared. It's literally in the first paragraph of the article you sent

>>508690897
The _story_ of the Holodomor, not the event itself.

>>508690720
>That's 11 years.
I answered that in >>508690723
the census was postponed 4 times due to the famine.
>Emigration
the movement of workers was into Ukraine, not out of it during the industrialization. And this was an all USSR census, not just by republic.
>Decision to identify as
the "self identification" bullshit doesn't work as there was the USSR policy of "korenizatsiya", promoting ethnic self awareness of non-russians. If anything, it should have increased the number of self-identifying Ukrainians in Ukraine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korenizatsiia

>>508691236
>They didn't want to show the population growth being lower than it should have been
you're a retard, aren't you, or disingenuous and stupid. You literally ignored the second paragraph where it states WHY the census was postponed.

>>508691408
the difference is that holodomor did happen unlike the ((holohoax)), and was carried out by jews. not just the jews that created and run USSR but a jew personally oversaw the whole project of stealing the grain of the ukrainian farmers to feed the jews in the cities that didn't bother to farm or do any labor whatsoever
and jewish officers murdering any farmers found "hiding" grain so their own families could eat as "bourgeoisie enemies of the revolution"

this is all uncontested up to this point, the contested part is whether it was a targeted, deliberate genocide or just usual jewish commie shit.
a human cannot understand a jewish mind so thats hard one to answer, of course the jews wash their hands just like they do today when they block and even destroy food aid from reaching gaza claiming "its not their fault the gazans starve, i couldnt have known that blocking their food leads them to starve to death".
so yep the genocide of ukrainians did happen, but did the jews actually specifically target them or just thought of them as goyim, insects whose lives dont matter as per talmud, i dont know

>>508691862
Liar
>The multiple delays were most probably explained by the reluctance to show the demographic results of the famine of 1932–1933.[2][1] The Soviet leadership had fanned great expectations of population growth

>>508691423
>the movement of workers was into Ukraine
The movement was all over the place but the smaller population gets diluted into the larger one. Also intermarriages and stuff. It's not very convincing to assign a change over 10 years to a single one year event.
We know for a fact that a lot of Jews left Russia since 1917
Also we know that a lot of Ukrainians emigrated outside of soviet union

>>508691423
>korenizatsiya
It was controlled opposition and later was cancelled because nationalists wanted to go further

>>508692359
>later was cancelled
after 1937, not before

>>508686407
Yeah this is the point. Jews are a parasitic people and communism is just another head of the jewish two-headed snake, the other head being international capitalism.
Both simply aim to move gentile wealth and productivity to jewish pockets, the thing with capitalism is that jews can simply own land, stocks and banks, and have the gentiles manage everything but give the jews all the profits, so it works better.
in communism, jews tried to manage everything themselves which of course didnt work, a literal tapeworm cannot manage a nation obviously.

ukrainian land was amongst the best in USSR (and in fact, one of the most fertile in the whole world) so they became the trough that the jews emptied to feed their own bellies.
but of course, being jews, in their insatiable greed they took ALL of the food, not leaving enough for the farmers that made it all to survive, and famine ensued

lot of the farmers were also killed as "bourgeroisie enemies of revolution", the farms collectivized and then a jewish commissaar managed huge collectivized farms with a jewish commissaar that only ever knew useless eatery as jews never do anything else. so they mismanaged the farms and couldnt lead the unskilled labor that also didnt know how to farm (the jews killed the farmers, remember) so the yields of the farms obviously crashed dramatically.
then the jews took what little there was left, and millions died of hunger. not jews of course, they had their bellies full.

>>508683351 (OP)
>My family has farmed this land for generation and I know how to do it effectively
>Yes comrade, but we're still taking the land from you and distribute it among people that never farmed in their lives
>Harvest fails and famine happens
>Suprised_Pichachu.jpg
Communism, not even once

>>508692193
are you truly this stupid? it literally says "the party wanted to show population growth (from 1926 to 1933), but because there was 1932-33 famine, they delayed the census multiple times until 1937". The delays were literally due to the famine, cause and effect. But it's hard for a pidorussian propagandist to admit.

>>508683351 (OP)
Its primary significance is that it was real, unlike the Hall of Cost.

>>508692636
in fact, i think this current russia-ukraine war is going to work as one such collectivization event to move gentile possessions to the jews

the thing is, the global population is rising and food demand is going to increase, but its not like new farmland is being made unless you do stupid things like burn the amazon
there are oil-rich but food-poor nations right near in the gulf arab states for example, and if the food prices soar they'll be paying good price for the food that can be produced in the bread basket of ukraine

so what i'm thinking is that when the jews were wheeled out from ukraine just before the war started, this is a planned depopulation where the whole point of the war is kill the ukrainian landowners - most of which simple farmers - currently dying in the frontlines, and after the depopulation is done the jews will swoop in and grab all the lands
and once again jewish commissaars will oversee huge farms, they will import nonwhite labor from the third world to work the land for pennies, while jews rake in the profits. probably this time of course they will use capitalism instead and will not actually personally oversee the farming, because jews now know they cannot really do anything except be parasites, so they'll just hold the title to the land and rake all the profits and hire some overseer overseeing all the nonwhite hordes farming the lands

and yes i know in the east of ukraine there are also massive oil and gas deposits lot of which were discovered in 2013 - year before the "special operation", so its definitely about that too
but i suspect the long term game is to take hold of the farmlands, oil and gas will eventually run out and different sources of energy will be invented, but everybody needs food and in the future the farmland will be more valuable than ever

>>508692636
>to feed their own bellies
They sold it to Europe
>the jews killed the farmers
They didn't kill all the farmers, farmers were eating rats, their children etc so technically there were ways to survive

You are not 100% correct bit Israel still doesn't recognise golodomor as a genocide of ukrainians

>>508683351 (OP)
"state organised famine" same reason the potato blight is the worst thing ever to happen to anyone if you ask the micks

>>508684334
Pesticides and efficient chemical fertilizers came about just after ww2. You then just needed a handful of good farmers and the rest was solving technical problems.
Nowadays automation put the number of experts in the lower end.

>>508683756
LOL AN AMERICAN SAID SOMETHING FACTUAL!?! COMMUNISM MUST ACTUALLY BE GOOD! I LOVE JEWS!

>>508693242
>They sold it to Europe
kek, thats even more jewish. i thought they just ate it. so they stole not only to feed themselves full, but also to sell so they could more lavishly
jews will never stop surprising, they always find way to surprise by being even more evil that one could even think of

>>508694319
Yes, USSR was dirt poor, the only reason it existed more than one day is because they were selling a lot to capitalist countries. They like to shit on free market and capitalism, but on the scale of trade between countries they happily participated in it. It's especially funny when communists say that communism should be in the whole world. Imagine the shitshow in situation with no capitalist countries to trade with.