>cracked the code for how to build an illiberal society in the post-industrial era by ensuring the means of production are under control and not under a pure profit maximizing incentive
>people everywhere in the world are too brainwashed by red scare propaganda to realize this
>instead think of retarded problems and solutions:
>"muh gold standard"
>"it's da jooz!"
>"it's the lack of regulations and taxing the rich"
>"we just need to CONTROOOL capitalism!"
>"we actually live under socialism and that's why we have problems!"
>"gommunism is evil it killed 60 gorillion"
we're all really just doomed to become serfs under corporate technofeudalism I guess

>>508794589 (OP)
Nigga you looted us Eastern euros and live off our backs. The day of vengeance can't come soon enough, God I wanna magdump puccians so hard bros

>>508794589 (OP)
>muh kacap shithole
pedorussians were always serfs and that's what you'll always be
slaves without any human rights

>>508794712
We helped you industrialize out of being agrarian, peasant societies. You received vast amounts of cheap Soviet resources for basically free. After you adopted market reforms and became westernized, you deindustrialized are being looted now more than ever. Every educated Romanian is now a liberal that flees to the west for opportunity.
A nigger pimp can now freely enter your country and exploit your women, under Ceausescu he would have been shot.

Deadbeat skinhead faggots like you are why modern day Eastern Europe will always be a rotting shithole.

>>508795086
>will always be a rotting shithole.
just like pedorussia
only pedorussia is also full of AIDS and gay rape

>>508794589 (OP)
>an insular clique of powerful bureaucrats saved us from an insular clique of powerful bureaucrats, but we were lied to about it by an insular clique of powerful bureaucrats
I warned you about states, bro. I told you dog.

>>508795345
>butthurt belter posters never cease to be retarded

>>508794589 (OP)
cracked the code? that you can implement whatever when you start killing people? I think we knew that already

>>508795407
>HIVbelter kacap assmad due to excessive gay orgies

>>508795430
pedorussians cracked the code how to have a lot of resources which then you can use on dumb shit

>>508795345
Fuck, how does it get this poor in Russia?

>>508795086
You gave us nothing, you took everything. You still owe us a few tonnes of gold from ww1. You were and still are more agrarian than fucking Congo back in 1ad. I literally can't wait to finish what our grandparents started

>>508794589 (OP)
yeah except marxism rationalized control of the means of production by the working force. What's emerging is that the working class is disappearing along with work and what you will be advocating for in the coming future is control of the means of production by the NEETs. Mmmhh. I think you need to think this one over.

>>508794589 (OP)
>OP drops TRVTHNVKE
>shills immediately discouraging from further noticing
this board is so fucking dead

>>508794589 (OP)
Eat shit and die, you russian subhuman

>>508796224
just like this pedoruskie

>>508795773
>You gave us nothing, you took everything.
What was Romania like before socialism again?
>You were and still are more agrarian than fucking Congo back in 1ad. I literally can't wait to finish what our grandparents started
imagine coping this hard

>>508794589 (OP)
Your whole country was a joke bro.
Come on, you don't have to keep pretending anymore.

>>508796224
this
I don't even know why I try, the brainrot ITT is too much. And I'm not even an ideological marxist/communist.

>>508796224
>Soviet Union
>"cracks the code"
>"TRVTHNVKE"
lol

>>508795377
>he still thinks a freer market will magically discourage the emergence of state bureaucracies and cronyism
kek

>>508796925
But diZz nutzz will

>>508796645
imagine coping this hard

>>508795377
this is such a nothingburger because you can describe any state in history as an "insular clique of powerful bureaucrats"

>>508796763
yeah, it can be really quite discouraging here or in the the normie world. but from time to time, some eventually overcome the brainwashing and then it’s very rewarding to see a brother/sister waking up from their nightmare

>>508796925
It's about who manages it. Capitalism should be managed. The code has been cracked and it's national capitalism/socialism.

>>508797166
living in pedorussia seems like a nightmare you never wake up from

>>508794589 (OP)
>"it's da jooz!"
it actually is to a pretty large extent, though. otherwise this is a good thread. but you ruskis need to do a better job in ukraine quick and restore the union ASAP otherwise its quite literally over for the entire human race.

>>508794589 (OP)
>lost

>>508796510
gloating over corpses is quite literally 70 iq balkan behavior i thought pollacks were at least slightly better than this even if by a small margin.

>>508797372
>but you ruskis need to do a better job in ukraine quick and restore the union ASAP otherwise its quite literally over for the entire human race.
ahahahah stupid kacap nigger

>>508794589 (OP)
Socialism seemed to work at first in the USSR because you were living literally under a feudalist mode of production. Of course productivity is going to increase if you start using machines, but general scientific and technical knowledge is not enough to prospere long term, particular knowledge of decentralised free agents is needed, you can't sustain an economy without prices or with fake prices invented by a politburo.

>>508797525
it's OK pedorussians aren't human

> 70 iq balkan behavior
there was a kacap that slam dunk a baby in moskvabad so it's more like a kacap behavior than balkan

>>508797487
Sorry, I was in error. It should have read:
>lost so hard that, if wasn't for the Americans, half of you would have starved to death

>>508797372
>it actually is to a pretty large extent, though
It's true to an extent, it's just that low IQ JQing is retarded. Jews tend to be capitalistic and mercantile which is why they disproportionately occupy high positions of power. You wouldn't change the fundamental nature of the system by exterminating all Jews, it would just have Jews be replaced by other races that exhibit excessively mercantile, greedy, usurious behavior.

>>508797580
You probably could steer it towards state capitalism/mixed economy like chinks did, the problem is just russians - they are too dumb and lack any self-reflection, it's a higher human trait which they lack

>>508797654
i don't really think slavs are really 100% human in any form but they have a habit of acting as a foil to jews, in a way whites can envy. for the most part you are all about the same to me.

>>508797580
OGAS would have addressed the problems of central planning with increasing economic complexity. The problem is that gosplan was using paper and pencil when they should have automated it with computing.
Yuri Andropov may have revived it, but Gorbachev and his ilk decided to commit complete national suicide rather than trying reforms without liberalization.
>decentralised free agents
This isn't even how modern day economies work, it's not decentralized at all but rather central planning by corporate entities.

>>508796861
the soviets actually cracked the code. the bolshevik revolution was to a certain extent spurred on by jews due to their many qualms with the russian empire, however they were very short sighted in doing this. it quickly got out of hand (after stalin's purges) and ended up creating something quite possibly more antagonistic to the international jew than the russian empire. this is why they backed the coup that knocked russia and the near east in general down several pegs.

>>508795773
Your country has declined nearly 20% since fall of USSR and you have the audacity to set life is better now.

>>508797166
true and checked

>>508797923
>The problem is that gosplan was using paper and pencil when they should have automated it with computing.
ahahahahaha I genuinely burst out laughing

you kacap niggers are hilarious with your copes

jesus christ what a subhuman race

if God exist, why did he create russniggers?

>>508796645
It was civilised. Everything went to shit when your kind showed up

>>508798021
one of the biggest obstacles to something like the soviet union existing in the long term is the extreme degree of petty nationalism that runs to the core of pretty much all near easterners.

>>508798109
Stfu Polish subhuman if it wasn't for the heroic Russians you'd be born in some Kraut colony in Kazakhstan. Russia had the audacity to admit to its wrong and allow the wall to fall. They could've sent in T-72s just like any other country would to quash you screeching subhumans.

>>508795773
that was ww1, fuck the tsar, but the ussr did help a lot more than country has, this true on every metric

>>508798021
You cant point to your country on a map, noone cares about you

>>508798190
Nah dude there just assnuked from not getting what they want. The Polaks are assnuked because they lost Eastern lands, despite being compensated by German lands they still choose to screech about Russia. Meanwhile Romanians impoverished Bessarabia and they wonder why Moldovans are so nostalgic for USSR and how there is very little support for unification. Litrealy bigger tier behavior that needs to be quashed.

>>508798299
Just like in every country most people don't care for geography.

>>508798248
russniggers should just kill themselves desu, along with shitmans

both subhuman vile races

Eastern Europe was only good when PLC existed

>>508798400
thats why i call it petty nationalism. there is no real point to being nationalistic for such a small and insignificant country.

>>508798400
assmad rooskie on a VPN lmao

>>508797923
>This isn't even how modern day economies work, it's not decentralized at all but rather central planning by corporate entities.

Big corporations have inner competence systems between teams. Though you are not completely wrong because there are still too much subsidies and privileges for big corporations. But the solution is less state, not more state.

>>508798442
>coping with a LARP fantasy map

>>508794589 (OP)
Might have worked (((in theory))) decades ago in homogenous societies where people care for the neighbors.
Completely impossible and impractical now that 95% of the next generation coming up is lazy incompetent retarded browns who lie cheat and steal at every opportunity.

>>508798521
yeah I don't get either why pedorussians are so nationalistic for their subhuman insect shithole

>>508798521
>>508798439
Ziggers on vpn

>>508798442
no one gives a shit about your eternally butthurt and irrelevant shithole. russia always was and always will be a great nation of conquerors, philosophers, artists and scientists.

How did the '91 jew revolution turn out?

>>508798612
you seem to forget the soviet union existed in east europe, not west. those people have really never been trustworthy or entirely civilized and yet it still worked. it worked because instead of welfare they had gulags.

>>508798442
>>508798524
Nobody's gonna save you after the Russians come because of the war you started. I look forward for how Poland will be redrawn again hopefully Pommerenia will become independent as well as Silesia. You don't deserve those lands.

>>508798726
ahahahahahaha

>>508798783
HIV & gay rape that's pedorussia

>>508798669
It's more likely your shithole will be forced to give back Transylvania and Szekleyland then getting Bessarabia at the rate of unnecessary warmongering your rotten shithole is doing. Hopefully your country ends up landlocked.

>>508798892
You will be sandwiches again.

>>508798811
yes, russia is a great and free country while you are the pet dog of NATO and EU. you're next after hoholistan.

>>508798655
you are ALL THE SAME PEOPLE. i still have yet to be convinced that all slavic languages are not mutually intelligible, in all honesty. russia is simply the most productive country and thus should lead the rest of you, especially ukrainians who aren't even real.

>>508798963
>>508798965
AAAAAAIIIIDSSSS

>>508798903
Post pics of hands

>if only we could make the kacap union work, chlip chlip

>>508799012
There just butthurt becouse they failed at being the hegemon of Eastern Europe. They fucked up by abusing the Proto Ukrainians in Zaporzhia. They are subhuman and lack any sense of honor.

>>508799028
if your mom was considered her own country (she is certainly large enough) she would be #1.

OP is right and it's because the Chinese government is running a National Socialist program in every way but in name.

Only caveat:
>instead think of retarded problems and solutions
All of these "retarded" problems are just the various roundabout ways people try to cope and come up with some way to make a multicultural society work, because the obvious choice that the Chinese have re-discovered is utterly inaccessible to an intractably divided multi-ethnic society.

Western capitalists hyperventilate about free-rider problems and corruption because a multi-ethnic society is in fact burdened by ethnic aliens who will free-ride the system into the ground and is terminally incapable of the kind of societal philia that naturally constrains corruption to within limits that can be reasonably managed. Tax-the-rich western liberals hyperventilate about the injustice of all the alternatives to their ideas because such alternatives will in fact crush their dreams of a soft and inclusive kumbaya society.

Across the board, they are ALL just coping and seething one way or another with the fact that they've burdened their sociopolitical thinking with "You just CAN'T have a clearly-identifiable People whose interests the government exists to advance because...you just CAN'T, okay???" as an inviolable precept.

>>508799046
You first.

>>508799114

>>508797923
What's funny about Soviet apologists is that in your mind Gorbachev came out of thin air and started ruining everything just for funsies. Or worse, was a Western spy, a Jew or whatever you like to call him to make it easier to shift the blame on him. But none of you seem to ask a simple question: why did he have to start reforms in the first place? And why did his reforms enjoy such a large support (at first) that no one tried to oust him like Khrushchev (unitl it was too late, and even that attempt was half-assed)?

>>508798769
So what you're saying is the browns (dissenters) would be confined to gulags in order for this to work, I can get on board with that.
I would happily participate in a communist utopia if it meant supporting fellow Whites, but not browns.
Even so to accomplish that condition, the majority population (browns) would need to be gulag'ed and the practicality of that is questionable.

>people everywhere in the world are too brainwashed by red scare propaganda to realize this

>>508799144
chinks are subhuman trash, but they are smarter than pedorussians, they figured out this shit ain't gonna work and you have to reform

still they're basically a threat to humanity with their predatory insectoid capitalism

https://ipdefenseforum.com/2021/06/chinese-fishing-fleet-poses-threat-to-pacific-island-economies/

>>508799225
He simply realized russians are subhumans and soviet union was an anomaly

>>508794784
>pic related
>russian man’s burden of bringing civilization to unpaved polish hovel

>>508799249
yes. the fact that canada has a large mostly unpopulated northern expanse allowing no escape (analogous to siberia) makes this pretty feasible.

>>508794589 (OP)
If it was good then it would have been good.

But it wasn't good.

>>508799710
all of pedorussia was like this

>We cracked the code
>Which is why we collapsed peacefully because everyone had enough of our shit
>Muh red scare
>Because the CIA of all people kept mogging the KGB (The Soviet's finest) in their interactions
You can literally trace why certain places are absolute holes to their occupation by the Soviets
>NO BRO WE NEED TO TRY THE HIGH FAULURE RATE AGAIN OR LEECH OF A BETTER SYSTEM LIKE NAZIBOL
Attaching an obvious disease to something just drags it down instead of making the disease good
This is why they got helicopter rides, they're so ideologically brain washed basic reality can't get through to them

>>508800017
pedorussians just dream of being a leech again, because that's what soviet union was it was artificially a core while pedorussia is a peripheral shithole of china, and before the EU

>>508799348
You don't need to believe that they are a righteous force for universal good in the world, and I don't either. It would be stupid for any of us to even try to make that case for them in the first place - their government doesn't burden itself with some kind of obligation to be good for us (people who are not Chinese) anyway, nor do its people expect it to.

The Chinese government sets out to be good for the Chinese people, and that's it. My contention - and I think OP's too - is that this is the best that any government on Earth can possibly do. That the alternatives all slide into unsustainable leeching and corruption in ways that they simply lack the societal foundation and the tools to fix.

Universalist political projects like Western Capitalism/Liberalism and Eastern Communism fail because they are universalist.

>>508798171
>>508795086
You can literally spot where Mongol occupation was on this economic map.
Russian commies like to pretend they invented industrialization and stuff while they simply bought their industry form America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Kahn_(architect)
Everybody could do much better without soviet "help", we can buy American stuff themselves your mafia racket services aren't needed.
8d0ny

>>508800575
>You don't need to believe that they are a righteous force for universal good in the world, and I don't either.
I never did. Yeah it's good for chinks, chinks are basically national socialism/capitalism the problem is that there's too many of them and they disregard any common good rules, they're not alone on this gay Earth. They just want to have it all, but no one wants to be a serf of the chinks just like no one wanted to be of russniggers.

>>508799857
fun fact: Pidorossiya was poorer in 1991 than america during the great depression. less than 10% of orcs owned a car, even less had a color tv.

>>508800300
>Portugal is semi periphery too

I wish!

>>508800847
They basically sold all the grain, starved the peasants and bought machines and factories from the Americans

>>508801212
And you can do it without commies and Holodomor.

>>508801202
There are different kinds of theories about this. Also this isn't permanent. Chinklands used to be a periphery but they are advancing towards being the core, for some they already are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World-systems_theory

>>508798549
>inner competence systems between teams
Competence or competition?
I'm not sure how you could say the bureaucracy of large corporations bloated by HR departments and fake jobs is efficient. And competition between different teams and sub-departments of state industries wasn't something that didn't exist in the Soviet Union.

>>508801166
Not surprising in the slightest, allocation of resources was completely out of whack in kacap shitholes. They hard to import the fucking grain to not starve. Today at least they managed to figure that out with capitalism.

>>508794712
>>508794784
the way you shitholers seethe about russia reminds me of the way canadians seethe about america

>>508801583
It's more like capitalism is so efficient (at least in the core states) it can support fake jobs

>>508801706
Pedorusia is dead. It's a Cold War relic. It has no future no purpose nothing going for it.

>>508799225
>Pole who doesn't immediately jump to butthurt belt sperging
What a rare anamoly
Anyhows, "great man theory" isn't exactly wrong. Sometimes all it takes is one person to rise up and either bring a civilization or empire to greatness, and one person to simply just squander and destroy everything.
The Soviet system had its problems from Khrushchev and Brezhnev messing up the system. But the resiliency of the system created by Stalin is why it continued to develop decently in spite of their poor leadership.
Andropov could have been the person to fix the system and once again build a strong and competent Soviet Union, but he died and his successor decided to destroy it all.

>>508794589 (OP)
>had three famines
>two crises
>bread lines
>exploded nuclear station
>dried out the sea
Soyuz nerushimiy respublik svobodnih...

>>508801934
Yeah, kacap union was an anomaly enabled by massive size of pedorussia

But it wasn't natural because russniggers are dumb corrupt animals, that's why it ended

>>508801583
Capitalism turned ARPAnet into modern Internet. Socialism killed OGAS twice. That's all you need to know.
>>508801934
Stalin created a system that could only function with people like him in charge. But - surprise - he himself purged such people from the party because they were a direct threat to his power. Same thing happened with Tito

>>508802125
>31 posts of chimping out
where do belters get the energy to be such spastic butthurt retards?

>>508802230
HIVbelters? I dunno ask ur dad he's a veteran of glavset gay orgies

>>508797923
>commies economic illiteracy speaking
lol

>>508801934
>But the resiliency of the system created by Stalin
You mean made national republics like Ukraine and Belarus who divided Russian Empire between themselves and kolkhozes that never could produce enough food for USSR? Lol.

Do you remember when BASED Deng did first to turn China into superpower?
Gulaged whiny Stalinists and disbanded kolkhoz.
>Gorbachev be like NOT STALIN'S KHOLHOZES NO! NO FAMILY FARMS! OVER MY DEAD BODY

>>508799012
>>you are ALL THE SAME PEOPLE
t. pseudo american

>>508801464
Nah, it's just that Spain is richer and such but we're always ahead of Spain.
That is we are more good goys than Spain, generally. We're closer to the most pozzed countries in most regard than Spain.
And in the XX century it was Spain that went through a massive Civil War and then stood out of NATO. And lost its Empire in the XIX century, among others.

There is no sane meter under which we are more peripherical than Spain. And this is true since the early 1800s.

>>508802227
>Capitalism turned ARPAnet into modern Internet. Socialism killed OGAS twice.
Survivorship bias.
It's less to do with the system of capitalism and socialism, and more to do with political coincidence. ARPANET was actively funded and supported by the US government while the Soviet government neglected OGAS because of the incompetence of Khrushchev and his political leadership clique.
It's not improbable a world where a non-retarded Soviet leadership succeeding Stalin would have made OGAS a thing, and an incompetent America would have neglected ARPANET.

Regardless, creating an illiberal system that doesn't descend into dystopic neoliberalism is worth whatever political effort or pain it requires. There's no other alternative unless you want to enter corporate technoserfdom, own nothing, and live in sodom.

>Stalin created a system that could only function with people like him in charge. But - surprise - he himself purged such people from the party because they were a direct threat to his power. Same thing happened with Tito
Oversimplification, Malenkov was a competent prodigy of Stalin. No reason why someone like him couldn't have risen up to continue on a functioning system.

>>508794712
Mofo Russia was a net contributor to the USSR while countries like yours and the rest of the buthurt belt were net benefactors, much like your net benefactors of EU money today while France, Germany and Italy carry the load. Literally Russia and Ukraine were Carrying that whole alliance and spreading their profits to your shitholes so they could build you roads, schools, hospitals and homes. It's unbelievable how little you east european mongoloids know about your own history. wtf do they teach you in school over there?

>>508803079
>non-retarded Soviet leadership
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzbek_cotton_scandal

>>508803079
Socialism is a sort of Liberalism.
The very existence of Socialism is predicated upon Liberalism.
And I argue that Socialism is the logic consequence of Liberalism.

>>508803297
Pales in comparison to the corruption of modern day Uzbekistan

>>508798171
>It was civilised.

Feudal society with >20% literacy rate, no healthcare, no schools, no hospitals for the vast majority of people, only for the upper class. No workers rights at all, people worked to death, life expectancy for men was less than 50 years old. This is what you call civilised?

>>508803567
In what way is socialism a sort of liberalism?
The way socialism existed and was practiced in the Stalinist USSR was a complete middle finger to liberalism.
No other entity in the post-industrial era has resisted liberalism as much as the Soviet Union and its allied states.

I know I made a thread of this but nobody replied so I'm just going to repost it into this thread since its discussing communism
What's a good alternative to souless communism/socialism for the actual working class?
Retarded marxists count Academics and lawyers who make six figure salaries in the same socioeconomic class as Joun the neighborhood plumber who lives on 40k a year.
Because I, like any sensible person, don't consider Goldberg with his 800k a year salary a member of the same socioeconomic class as John the neighborhood plumber, what alternative systems are there that would actually stand up for the real working class?
And what about if I hate the treacherous elites who exploit the nation's people and have no loyalty to the country they call home, but don't want to buy into socialist internationalist faggery?

>>508794589 (OP)

>>508803839
nobody wants socialism
nobody wants communism
capable people want to be left alone
total zigger death

>>508803593
>corruption of modern day Uzbekistan
No such thing.
No really.
Go to Amir Temur with teh sign " Uzbekistan government is corrupt" and stream on youtube how long till righteous furry of uzbek nation would wash your kremlin provocateur ass away

>>508803896
You're conflating all of socialism/communism with western university intellectuals.
Socialism of the Soviet Union and modern day members of Eastern European or ex-Soviet Republic socialist/communist parties are nothing akin to liberal "socialists" in the west.

>>508803079
Capitalist system created conditions for the ARPANET to succeed, socialism created people like Khrushchev and bureaucracy that killed OGAS. If the role of one person in history is so strong what's the point in even arguing about systems? Let's argue about how to put good people in charge
>worth whatever political effort or pain it requires
I'm not ready to sacrifice millions of people in another fruitless attempt, thanks
>Malenkov was a competent prodigy of Stalin
He wasn't just because he was outmanoeuvred politically by Khrushchev
>No reason why someone like him couldn't have risen up
So why didn't he? You can't just say that evil Khrushchev came out of nowhere and spoilt everything

>>508794589 (OP)
>Not adaptive to changing circumstances.
>Enemies build up capabilities then change the game on them quickly and violently
>Systems degrade country into third world shithole

>>508796224

>>508804334
Post this image on you vk.com i'll wait
(it has 3 swastikas in it lol)

>>508803947

>>508794589 (OP)
>Communism was so based

>>508803947
Better graph

>>508803839
Because Socialism is built upon the principles that the Liberal regimes established, mostly in the XIX century.
No religion for instance is only possible with the de-sacralisation of society (laicity or whatever).
All being the same or equal is only possible even as an idea after destroying the aristocracy.
And economic wise it all based on heavy industrialisation meaning that the end of the agrarian phase with land as the most valuable "comodity" and elites derived almost solely from their control of the land... socialism is predicated upon liberalism.

Stalinism was built upon Liberalism too. Socialism is more of an evolution and a consequence (a degradation if you will) of Liberalism than a real opposition to it as in a middle finger would suggest.

Socialism is the buterfly to the larva that is Liberalism.

>>508803896
Check Traditionalism out, buddy!

>>508804791
socialism is built on capitalism
the main socialistic method is taxes
and it always destroys itself

>>508804373
The conditions for ARPANET or OGAS to succeed are leadership that will fund the development of it, it's really that simple. Simply because something happened historically and we live in a certain present reality does not mean it's what we are damned to.
Is your ideology really neoliberal capitalism where corporations, bankers, and billionaires own everything and turn you into cattle? That's the hill you want to die on? It's worth studying old systems and reforming them for a modern day resistance to liberal modernity.
>Let's argue about how to put good people in charge
A simple solution would have been keeping the NKVD/KGB powerful enough to continue influencing the political process. The KGB produced the most competent Soviet leader (Yuri Andropov) after Stalin, and was the main resistance to Gorbachev's policies even if their coup was poorly planned.
>So why didn't he?
You have a very presentist mentality. "Yeah that happened historically and they didn't succeed or don't exist anymore so our timeline couldn't have gone any other way, what's true now in the present is what is the best and is true for eternity."
Are you ready to accept faggots everywhere, mass migration, and being unable to own anything?

>>508805063
I disagree.
Socialism is an alternative to Capitalism.

Can you really tax a slave though?
All Socialists are slaves.

>>508794589 (OP)
>"it's da jooz!"
>when kikes dreamed up communism, racism and every fucking evil thing plaguing us today
kys retarded kike

>>508805191
socialism suggest that you can redistribute money
but for money to make sense you first need capitalism

socialism is so bad that in the end of it, there is no reason to work and money loses all value

>>508804631
>correlationcausation.png

>>508804791
>And economic wise it all based on heavy industrialisation meaning that the end of the agrarian phase with land as the most valuable "comodity" and elites derived almost solely from their control of the land.
In 1914 Russian peasant owned 80% of the arable land, only 20% belonged to aristocracy. While Russian Empire was majority agrarian country.
You over chugged commie propaganda lies. Russian aristocracy lost control of the land long before industrialization (and then commies robbed peasants of all their land)

>>508804920
Solzhenitsyn told liberals in Spain "not to push too hard for changes because Spain had more freedoms now than the Soviet Union had ever known."
In terms of authoritarianism, Estado Novo was not that different from Francoist Spain. It was not vigilant and powerful enough against creeping liberalization which threatened every illiberal dissident regime.
The Soviet Union under Andropov, a KGB hardliner, was practically invincible. It fell to liberalization the moment Gorbachev lifted all that repression with glasnost.
The world was and still is degenerating into liberalization, and if your regime isn't powerful enough to resist it then you will capitulate.

>>508805275
>socialism suggest that you can redistribute money
>but for money to make sense you first need capitalism

That's retarded.
Socialism is a based on the centralisation of all production.
Meaning that government invents whatever money they want and then destributes that same money.
But most workers don't even need to be payed money as they are capitalist pigs or some shit.

>>508805726
you are retarded

>>508805718
That Liberalisation that you talk about regarding Estado Novo came mostly from the outside.
The Universities were infiltrated, all the elite youth were commies by the early 1970s.

>>508805718
>The Soviet Union under Andropov, a KGB hardliner, was practically invincible.
Until oil prices ACKed Soviet food supply.

>>508805066
>what's true now in the present is what is the best and is true for eternity
I've never said that. For all I know we live in another dysfunctional system that's gearing up towards its inevitable collapse. But I simply reject your solution because I don't want to dream about "what if". You're not even using actual socialist theory, you're showing me an example of a country that existed in a very particular point in space and time and saying "look here, don't look anywhere else". That's not really convincing

>>508805718
What's interesting about Francoist Spain or Salazar Portugal is that the regime simply gave up after their founding father passed away. They didn't have to. The economy was doing alright, certainly better than it is today and the government definitely had firmer control of the state than it has now... but the people in charge collectively decided to relinquish their power and responsibilities. They never had the Soviet Union style of collapse and economic implosion to deal with and yet they just gave up and left.

>>508805851
>Billion Chinese people
dey all starved because communism

>>508794589 (OP)
pic rel
jews from israel built modern china
its military and industry
at expense of burgers

>>508806511
>What's interesting about Francoist Spain or Salazar Portugal is that the regime simply gave up after their founding father passed away. They didn't have to

Salazar was out of comission in 1968. His successor lasted for six more years.
Spain died with Franco, but only because our Revolution happened first.

The interesting part is the causes of our Revolution.
A big part of it was that Salazar's successor, Marcello Caetano, was a left wing man.
He was descended from Liberals and Freemasons of our First Republic and he took a middle ground position in most things which only fucked him severely.
Military wise he was unable to manouver the generals (and foreign powers) who wanted to give up on our war.

Marcello Caetano fucked up for being a leftist retard who took a middle ground position on everything.
He embolded the opposition, trusted conspiring foreign powers and failed to keep the military upper echelon under his arrm, under control.

But Salazar had a successor and his regime (it was not Salazar who founded the regime but whatever) survived his main leader.

Marcello de Caetano suffered the Revolution (by our military even if enticed by foreign powers) in no small part because he passed a law to defend the Overseas territories in which the Portuguese who joined the local militias and had a college degree would from then on be equivalent to our military officiers.

In a way it made sense because there were very few such people and we were desperately in need for it. It also revived the tradition of Portugual being based on local militias BUT... it pissed off the military officier class. And it was the end of the regime.

>>508805834
Then perhaps you should have had a more powerful intelligence agency to root it out

>>508805851
>thinking oil prices had anything to do with the Soviet collapse
kys low IQ nigger you're contributing nothing to this thread

>>508803760
But that's modern pedorussia

>>508794589 (OP)
I'll have to agree with the Russian, communism>capitalism.

>>508806511
>They never had the Soviet Union style of collapse and economic implosion to deal with and yet they just gave up and left.
But it was a Soviet Union style of collapse politically speaking, the people gave up the same way Soviet officials gave up and let everything liberalize.

>>508806511
Portugal was for 500 years (since 1415) based on our Overseas holdings.
We could not survive without them. Without them we became dependent upon foreign powers. We were pretty much self sustainable in everything. Oil, food, energy... you name it. We suffered a blunder in 1974/5 only smaller than the loss of Brazil in 1820.

We could not maintain ourselves without our Overseas territory and the moment we lost them our economy sort of desintegrated. And it was further fucked up by the communist take over that followed with every person with money fleeing the country and having their comapanies nationalised, including all banks and a few of the then largest industrial companies in Europe (Cuf, Lisnave, etc.).

In the 1970s here all the 20 or 30 something elite fags or 90% of them were commies. Even if their 50 / 60 year old fathers were in the government.

Our President is a commie globalist and his father was a Minister of Salazar and the last Portuguese Governor of Mozambique.
Our President specialises in talking shit about our previous regime and our empire while being friendly and saying
>My family was at fault too
>That's why we need more niggers
>Because we've always been the nigger's best friend
>Did you know my father was the first to recieve niggers in his Palace in Maputo?

>>508807147
Perhaps you don't understand a few dynamics:

If the father is in the government and is right wing and his children's generation are left wing... what future does the right wing have?

Socialism was forbidden in Portugal but the "University bros" could riot and spread socialism at will because...

>Their parents control the police / government / judicial system
>And they ordered us to not harm their own children nor their own children's friends

Plus understand that after WWII our regimes were seen as quasi nazi.
They were accepted, sure, but everybody was scheeming to destroy us.

Now what does that do to a country that has the following saying
>For the English to see
Meaning that you do comsetic shit to present a good face to foreign powers.
Implying that foreign powers matter more than your own people.

In the 1960s we were being gang raped in the UN with all other Euros aplauding our terrorist niggers and the other terrorist niggers attacking us non stop.
We lost our credibility. It was amazing how we lasted that long.
Just in the same way that it is amazing how South Africa continued with Appartheid all the way to 1994.

But there were no international ... environment for such countries / regime to prosper.
Imagine them existing now. It's an impossibility because big powers (USA mainly) would not allow us.
Just like they allow and require the Ukrainians to kill themselves now. For political bullshit reasons.

>>508807255
>t.
>yes am historically illiterate how did you know?

>>508807320
russniggers are too stupid for either

>>508807255
holy cope

>>508794589 (OP)
dead red is dead. /thread

>>508794589 (OP)
Imagine worshipping a fat retarded jew bum as a Russian.At least christcucks worship a skinny jew who actually had a job

>>508808041
If you had any understanding of the Soviet foreign trade system and how autarkic the Soviet economy was, you would realize why thinking oil prices played a role in the collapse is the most retarded, brainlet theory you could come up with.
Can you tell me how many different types of rubles were used in the Soviet foreign exchange system and whether or not they were interchangeable with other types of rubles?
You can't, because you're an illiterate retard and a memeflaggot.

>>508800847
>Everybody could do much better without soviet "help",
Actual Portugal imported mongol culture and is the poorest country in the West. What more proof is needed for these retarded muscovite controlled sheep to understand?

>>508795685
It's the convenience shop staff "throwing out" the items that are one day past the mandated best before. I live in a very good neighbourhood of Moscow and even my local 5ka has this happen every morning. There is just a certain type of person, who, due to temperament or horrible life situation, can't pass an opportunity to grab free food. Very likely those pensioners aren't actually starving, it's just like a matter of principle for them to grab free bread and cheese and sausages and shit. It is very unsightly though.

>>508808328
shit rubble
kacap rubble
assrape rubble

>>508794589 (OP)
Yes, Comrade!! I, too, love it when the government comes and takes away all the food I grew for my family and gives me a food stamp that buys me 1 grain of rice instead, based!!!

>>508808398
>good neighbourhood of Moscow

>>508807445
>, the people gave up the same way Soviet officials gave up and let everything liberalize.
Soviet commies historical illiteracy is astounding
Gorbachev kept kolkhozes and govermnt set food prices till he was ousted from power. Kolkhozes were disbanded and prices went market January 1991 after USSR collapse, Gorbachev's removal and Russia been on teh verge of collapse and bread riots in Moscow.
Curious you don't know that Gorbachev was rabid Stalinist towards Russian peasants. Liberalism my ass.

>>508808328
>Soviet foreign trade system
Here is how Jewviet foreign trade system worked
1. You sent them 100 trains of food, quality export goods, canned items, well made electronics (admittedly they were USSR designs)
2. They sent you 1 train of processed food, junk goods, crappy electronics from other regions

Literally no accounting or value equivalence, they just sent back the train with junk they didn't need and called it an exchange. Then they executed the General Secretary of Romania.

>>508794712
Looted fucking what lmfao

I love how the most failed countries in eastern Europe act like they ever stood a chance

>>508808621
>well made electronics
ahahahahhahahah

what electronics kacap retards made?

>>508808691
>Looted fucking what lmfao
Everything that's wasn't bolted down 6 meters underground. They were like the niggers of Europe.

There is no ambition nor is there any reward for hard work in communism. No selection, no variation, no competition.

It fails every
single
time

>>508808474
> flag
Glad you found meaning in your life, Grzegorz.

>>508808758
>what electronics kacap retards made
You made the best audio equipment. It was only available for purchase in Moscow. Not one of your electronics came to Romania by planned trade. My father still has all the good equipment in the basement, it still works, polish-ed and check-ed.

>>508804791
>built upon the principles that the Liberal regimes established
Which principles?
>All being the same or equal is only possible even as an idea after destroying the aristocracy.
The "equality" of liberalism is a farce, a kike billionaire is never the equal of someone on minimum wage.
But believing in preserving the power of retarded and incompetent hereditary aristocracies to govern the economy is part of why liberalism won against all reactionary orders. How is that going to accomplish anything?

>>508808691
You russniggers literally ripped faucets from walls because they thought water will always flow from them

and bronze door knobs because they thought it was gold

they washed potatoes in toilets

>>508808883
yeah they were soo good no one ever seen them outside of drunk kacap heads

>>508808328
Gorbachev literally sold GDR (by taking ING credits that came with political demand to take out soviet military from GDR) to buy bread for falling apart USSR.
In the end peasant's karma got USSR. Collectivization, dekulakization, Holodomor, all that rabid commie dancing on teh peasants graves. Enjoy your no food. No commie regime can escape that fate.

>>508808621
>memeflaggot

>>508794589 (OP)
Based OP. The bad guys won the Cold War.

>>508808474
My commie block is in pic related. Don't be mad bro.

>>508808883
>You made the best audio equipment
recipe for communist economic success:
>when nothing is available, anything is "best"

>>508803039
not a nationalist bud. i do not give two solitary fucks.

>>508794712
Everything flowed out of Russia into other satellite states so you don't know what you're talking about

>>508809790
believing this pidorganda in the year 2000+25 lmao
they literally forced us trade in worthless "transfer roubles" and sell all our goods to them exclusively, banning nearly all exports to the West