Here some sources straight from Medieval historians and chroniclers

hello is this the risk thread

>>509319269 (OP)
Adding to the list

Bump.
>>509319269 (OP)
>Nibelunglied
>Mabinogion
That's like adding Beowulf or King Arthur. It's historical mythos at best. I've read Gregory of Tours and St. Bede and most of the Heimskringla. Been meaning to read History of the Danes, thx for the reminder. Here's one you can add as thanks. Note this is about the mainland Saxons, not those who invaded the Britons.

>>509319675
Added to the list

>>509320827
Myths still are historical sources as well. Take the Iliad as example-

>>509319675
>Henry
that guys name was obviously Heinrich

>>509319269 (OP)
Letopisetul Moldovei,O seama de cuvinte

>>509319675
As usual original doesn't exist. Codex Zamoscianus was inven... i mean found in 1862 in warsaw.

>>509320925
I dont deny that certain people or places or events even only found in myths really happened, but personally I wouldn't include them in a list of Chronicles and histories and annals. To me those are more national epics. But if you think there is important history there, then you might as well include the Aeneid or Kalevala.

>>509321838
>Aeneid or Kalevala
They are both, too ancient and too modern for a medieval history thread, also they are both too famous. The works I cite here are less knwon since they are medieval sources that in general were despised by modern historians.

>>509319269 (OP)
Let's check some random one. Gesta Danorum. Oh, original is lost, what a SURPRISE.
Except for four fragments? Okay, when where they found? 1863, 1860, 1855 and 1877. SO ANCIENT.

>>509322187
Nigger, many medieval works were found during XIX and XX centuries when many historians investigated the libraries of monasteries and churches.

In Russia they found the last copy of the Second Book of Enoch, the so called "Slavic Enoch" since the copy was written in Russian. In Italy they found the "Travel of Egeria", a lost work very cited by Early Medieval Spanish and French authors but lost until late XIX century. And like these, there are many lost works hidden in old libraries expecting to be found. As some lost works of Aristotle.

>>509319269 (OP)
for fuck's sake, gesta hungarorum is the most idiotic, least reliable chronicle we have, it's easily debunked, made-up shit meant to support the claims of a certain clan. why not the chronicon pictum or geasta hunnorum et hungarorum?

>>509322187
Okay okay, let's try again. Gesta principum Polonorum. No original, of course. Survives in other manuscripts? Okie dokie. Oh wait, it's that Zamoscianus again, which was found in 1862...

>>509322521
You misspelled "invented".

>>509322187
>There was no such a thing as 'Middle Ages

Why is this eestifag trying to 'deboonk' historical writings? Is it because Estonia has no history of her own? Hey moron, ever heard of lost media? Or are those fake too?

>>509321301
>Medieval historians and chroniclers
>mid 17th c.
You really have no history.

>>509322581
This. None of these things can be taken at face value.

>>509322187
libraries burned down all the fucking time throughout the ages.

>>509322721
Fun fact: There are almost no primary sources before 15th century.

>>509322826
>>mid 17th c.
Early Modern Era was the last vestige of Christian Europe tho, many historiographical nationalist works were written at that time before Enlightment started to push their bullshit.

>>509322581
I am not a master at all about Medieval sources tho, plus I don't care about realiability of the sources.

>>509322825
I remember i went deep in this subject some years ago and the data always screamed at my face that it's all fake. I didn't understand this at first, because "the lie can't be that big".
And yes, history of "my" cuntry is also fabricated. Basically a guy wrote a book in 1790s, citing a 1690s book he found in Stockholm about the era before 16th century. His only source was that century old book and he lost it, but read his book instead, he cites this a lot and you should trust him, cause... expert or something.
Pearls, swine, whatever.

>>509323347
Basically what i'm saying the psychology of invention of history is the same as with exploration of new lands. Everybody was finding out some new stuff: be it land, resources, people, history.
Heck, i know even how freemasonry started. Basically through fakery, but WHO CARES. LET'S THROW ROMAN SALUTES AND BE EDGY LIKE THAT.

>>509319269 (OP)
Don't you think your image is missing some important shit by not having Finland, the Baltics, Italy and Greece in it at all?

>>509322953
Yeah they just happened to burn and it just happened to be christkikes that set the fire every time but yeah its just a normal thing that happens throughout history don't worry about it goy

>>509319269 (OP)
Gesta Hungarorum is considered unreliable by most historians, including all Hungarian historians. The work is mostly fiction and contains many innacuracies. For example it claims that the Croatian Kingdom was founded by Hungarians which we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is not true. The genre of the work is also Gesta(the deeds) which alludes to it's debatable authenticity as most seriously historical works would have been titled Historia or Chronicle.

>>509322826
>You really have no history.
STFU subanimal fagyar trash, we are centuries older than you are, and your fake made up ""hungarian"" identity.

The first signs of Vlach existence were early as 6th century AD, and it was about their language in the “Perí Ktismáton” Byzantine book, they've served as “Akrites” border-guards of Byzantium and they were known to be shepherds and professional fighters of the mountains. They indeed came from the Romanian Hinterland.

>>509323788
Doing good work anon, have a (you). There used to be threads about this all the time, sources between 500AD and 1600AD are... strange to say the least.

>>509319269 (OP)

I would add the 4 Catalan chronicles, at least the one by Montaner. Everything about the Free Catalan Company is very interesting, I must say

>>509327430
*Muntaner

>>509320827
Nibelungenlied, Beowulf & Mabinogion ARE the best sources we have for certain ancient events. Most of the official ancient history is total horseshit after all.
Nibelungenlied deals really with the aftermath of the Franco-Gallic empire which did not end as later retcons made it out. This is when Rome, whatever that was, fell for good. After the crisis of the 3rd century it was over. Later Roman history is a repeat plus some 8-10 century retcons.

>>509320925
Iliad, like Odyssey, is mostly Nordic in origin.

Normies were made to believe that historians started out as more honest than today when people back then didn't even had a sense of historicity as we look at it today.
From our perspective it was just outrageous lies.
It's maddening how naive especially rightwingers are in this regard, eg bible, christian propaganda etc.

>>509322187
>SO ANCIENT
Date of being found =/= date of being written

>>509327590
>Iliad, like Odyssey, is mostly Nordic in origin.
>Nordic
The Ancient Greeks looked down on Northern Europeans

>>509322521
>found

>>509323959
yeah, the guys with the cross, last time it was germs

>>509324329
dunno
it may be fake, made up, etc or may simply not adhere to official chronology but that may not make it not real if you catch my drift

>>509322826
Huh? The book was published in 1872. Is this about the book or the events narrated IN the book,which are real history? Does the fact that theres no romanian book about stephen the great and his predecessors negate his existence?

Speaking of which are you aware of the fact that your country is the most cucked in Europe? Youre partially jewish and speak an asiatic language and demand land frok every single neighbour of yours,yes,even from Austria

Everyone is sleeping on Georgian Chronicles, it described the world continuously since Noah, also describes wars with Khazars.
Let me reiterate that, Georgians are THE ONLY ONES at all on the whole planet who were contemporary with Khazars and actually recorded conflicts with them constantly, everyone else might as well be making shit up because they were our neighbor.
>The Khazars rose to power and clashed with the peoples of Leki and the Caucasus, while the Targamosians—under Durdzuk son of Tiretis—once lived in harmony until six chieftains crossed the mountains to seize Khazar borderlands and found riverside cities. In turn, the Khazars crowned a king, opened the Daruband “sea gate,” and devastated Targamosian lands, reducing them to vassals. The first Khazar monarch granted his son Ubo Armenia and Kartli, and parceled western Caucasian territories to Durdzuk (who founded Durdzuketi) and to the Ovs at Ovset; his nephew received Lekan, where Ran, Moakni, and Khozonikh built Khozanikheti. Meanwhile, the Persian hero Afridon conquered his kin’s realm and sent Arda to Georgia, who razed cities, slew Khazars, and built the first walls at Mtskheta and Armazi. Afridon’s heirs feuded until Kartlosians liberated Georgia; later, Persian king Kekapos was repelled at Leket, news of Moses’s exodus inspired awe, and upon Kekapos’s son Pharabor’s campaign, Armenians and Georgians united to besiege Adarbadagan.
A snippet.

>>509327590
>Nibelungenlied
In The Song of the Nibelungs there is a mention of a Wallachian king called Ramunc and his 700 retinue who were invited to Attila's court. The original tex in the poem is "Ramnuch aus Walachen".

hunGAYrian rats on suicide watch as usual.

>>509322826
>>509323218

Here,have an older book. Not everyone had access to cuck catholic monks who spent months and years trying to write some mansucripts. We waited for the apparition of the printing press

>>509329270
Sound interesting
tell me more
is it in english somewhere?

>>509329270
>Georgians are

>>509319269 (OP)
>weimar

>>509327590 #
>Nibelungenlied
In The Song of the Nibelungs there is a mention of a Wallachian king called Ramunc and his 700 retinue who were invited to Attila's court. The original tex in the poem is "Ramunch aus Walachen".

hunGAYrian rats on suicide watch as usual.

>>509329301
huns were hungarians tho

>>509329382
Here is compendium of Chronicles of Georgia that was compiled in 1955, Google translate works pretty well to be honest.
>https://www.amsi.ge/istoria/qc/
>>509329459
Georgian crime rates are very low, our mafia was exiled from the country and now they operate in Europe. The difference is that Georgia is willing to be violent with criminals while Europe is being pussy about it sadly.
I will all the best for countries like Poland especially though, they seem chill and I hope our nigger exiled gangs aren't too bad.

>>509329865
they are
they behave like pakis in bongland

>>509329607
No. Huns were related to avars and other asiatic tribes,which were distantly related to mongols. Asiatic pillagers mentioned even in north korean chronicles.

And modern hungarians arent even huns theyre assimilated slavs,germans and romanians (especially east of Tisa river where romanians live). Do you really think that after 300 years of habsburgic rule theyre not germanic or partially germanic? Imagine how it was before that when everyone bred with everyone in 900-1300 AD

>>509329942
i don't mean modern hungaryans
but magyars

>>509329459
>smuggle 24lbs of cannabis
These fuckers must be retarded or there is barely security at these airports. How tf are you smuggling that much weed on some random broad. Did they just stick it in her suitcase or something retarded and pray for the best?

>>509329920
Treat them like animals, not much I can say besides that. They are mankurt mutts mentally buckbroken by Soviet prison system, a bizarre mix of Georgians, Kurds and Armenians turned into unholy abomination of the worst kind.
In Georgia we have a law that even associating with criminal culture, as in just saying their phrases or posting related imagery is enough to get you investigated.

>>509329607
Huns were Hunnic, not Hungarian. Hungarian is an utterly fake and made up identity and they call themselves Magyar in their own language.

>>509330459
yes
magyars were hunns

>>509327969
ah, yes, Greece, the magical fairie land that started out with
>sea raiders perpetually fighting
>yet some find time to write dozens of books
>going down in a futile civil war type of conflict
>only for a neighbour to invade them and spread their ideas around the ancient world
>only to perish after the most epic, fantastical and wondrous adventure, creating new origin stories for huge, enormous successor kingdoms
...
>then nothing for almost two thousand years
>(but really see below for the secret history)
...
>then Europeans have to "discover" this noble heritage through books, only to be shocked when the people they rescued and deemed to be their lost cousins are basically Turks
>"we wuz Achilles!"

This is what normies believe

In reality, Nordic Franks and Normans settled and conquered Greece without a cultural squeak. But this period is where "ancient Greece" really got its stuff from. And not to denigrate their accomplishments, Plato/Pletho write his stuff probably in the Byzantine empire around the 15th century, shortly before it was "rediscovered".

>>509329999
And so are finnish people and estonians too. Partially uralic. They are fake europeans and need to be exterminated or assimilated or serve as buffer states. The only true aryans in eastern europe are the latvians who are partially nordic,some estonians and slovenians. Thats it. Everyone else is either mediterranean or turkish or balkan of is slavic or some sort of larp.

ALL need to be germanized. ALL. Everyone from slovenia and czechia all the way to kazakhstan and novosibirsk and the balkans. Ideally everyone outside greece. Gets a free pass because they are a unique and different civilization. And Romania,Slovakia,Bulgaria,Serbia,Bosnia,Croatia etc. Maybe even albania I like knowing such an ethnicity exists even though its useless

>>509330889
It is literally impossible that Plato was fake because I have personally seen Georgian texts from 9th century mentioning Platos texts

>>509330560
Most historians reject any relation between the Huns and the Magyars. It's only the revisionist Hungarian historians that are pushing this nonsense.

>>509330889
Stop stealing everyone's history.

There is no "nordic" master race. Its germanic. ALL of germany and germany alone. Everyone came from there.

And that doesnt deny the relevance of other people's history. I even admire the poles the french and the russians myself but Europe needs to be united in the XXIst century snd that can only happen under a german flag

>>509331268
NO

>>509322187
Lol look at all the seethe in the replies. Why do people get soo offended if you just hint at the possibility that they might have been lied to?

>>509333223
they want to believe

>>509319269 (OP)
Ad Urbe Condita by Titus Livius
History of the Lombards by Paul the Deacon
Storia d'Italia by Montanelli

You don't need anything else

>>509333407
They're insecure and take it as a personal affront if you hint that they might have let themselves get duped. Bet none of the people seething in his replies actually read those chronicles that estonianon implies are fake or could tell what's in them yet they're super offended by him pointing out they might be fake. This is how all the big lies survive for so long, random normies viciously jump to their defences out of a reflex to not face the possibility that they've let themselves be lied to.

>>509333929
I am going through some ancient writers right now and its wild ride
Well written and enjoyable tho

>>509333928
That's antiquity, not medieval

>>509331268
>pan EU shilling

>>509330018
they stuck it in her ass

>>509334062
>Well written and enjoyable tho
Bet. Have fun bro

>>509334179
Ah sorry. Then I would add De Bello Gothico by Procopius.
Anyway, the idea that the Middle Ages lasted a thousand years is fake and gay. Late Antiquity, that is Christian Romanity, extends quite naturally up to the year 1000. It is only from the 13th century onward, at least in Italy, that one can properly speak of a period clearly distinct from the centuries that came before.

>>509334589
>De Bello Gothico by Procopius.
Medieval but not national history

>>509334455
Herodotus and Thucydides was fun, going through Polybius now, Live is next

>>509334699
When I read it, I imagined the Goths as soldiers of the Italian Social Republic, having to defend themselves against an invasion from the south and the east of the peninsula. For me, it was a foundational moment.

BEHOLD
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_the_Slavs
Haters will tell you that is fake but Slavs really bloodied Alexander the great nose(Macedonians were also Slavs)

>>509322187
>The oldest extant manuscript of the Georgian Chronicles is Patmut'iwn Vrats', an Armenian translation preserved in manuscripts dating from the 13th century. The earliest surviving versions of the chronicles in the original Georgian language, however, date to the 1400s century.

>>509334699
Anyway, I don’t understand what you’re trying to prove. Are you trying to find a foundational proem of the Middle Ages for every country in Europe?

>>509334972
Kinda yes, the first national narratives of European nations, specifically Medieval ones. It also needs to talk about the nation as a subject, I don't count specific non existing anymore identities such as cities-states or kingdoms. All the ones I posted share these traits, they talk about Spain, France, England, Ireland, Bulgary, etc., in the sense of a shared national identity and history.

Gesta principum Polonorum
>The oldest preserved manuscript, which is part of a collection of historical works called the Zamoyski Code, comes from the second half of the fourteenth century and is in the collections of the National Library

>>509324329
I can't find the book at the moment, but there was this guy who has shown how the majority of events and made-up 'etymologies' for place-names seem to concentrate in two regions, south of today's Budapest and what is now Salaj, one-time Szilágy. from this he deduced that gesta hungarorum was written as a framework to place allegedly ancient claims of a certain noble family in. it would have been too transparent if the 'chronicler' only included those claims of the origin and history, so he had to add some padding. unfortunately I forgot the name of the noble clan in question, but I remember it was one of german origin who got called in by st stephen's father.

>>509319269 (OP)
>>>/his/
>>>/lit/

>>509330889
>are basically Turks
>Plato/Pletho write his stuff probably in the Byzantine empire around the 15th century
Source?
>>509331268
If Germans are the master race then why did they lose World War 2? Apparently (American) Anglo-Saxons are more likely to be the master race, British people creating the biggest empire in human history helps to solidify that claim. Personally I prefer to say "a" and not "the" master race by the way.
>Everyone came from there.
So jews, Chinese and Arabs as well?

>>509337447
>If Germans are the master race then why did they lose World War 2?
they didn't
the germano-jewish elites of german nazi(zionist) state jumped into USA and EU/NATO

>>509330278
the worst outcome will most likely happen
>ignore it for years
>public speaks
>government shuts it down
>right wing builds talking points around hating them
>they come into power expel them and Georgians are hated in the same vain as Arabs and are seen as outsiders from Europe for the next historical cycle
that's what it will be already happening in Ireland

>>509319269 (OP)
Ljetopis popa Dukljanina is a work of historical fiction and it talks about Croats.
De Administrando Imperio is what you need for earliest accounts of Croats by the way.

>>509338526
I forgot to mention: read Historia Salonitana. Ignore Pacta Conventa, that one's a forgery.

>>509333223
It's easier to fool people than to convince them they've been fooled.

>>509319269 (OP)
Based a book exclusively about Ireland somehow applies to Scotland

>>509324329
>Croatian Kingdom was founded by Hungarians which we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is not true
It was just discovered that the Polish royal family originated from Scotland which is not documented anywhere so...

>>509331089
>I think they're from the "9th" judeo christian counting system
okay, cool

>Stop stealing everyone's history.
this is wild on so many levels it boggles the mind. We're the only ones who never stole anybody's shit.
I refuse to believe without hard evidence that "ancient" Greeks were out-of-place geniuses (IQ science determined the average IQ of ancient Achean, Attican & Agean Greeks to have been in the 130-140 range) who then became relative retards for two thousand years only for judeo christian chronology stands firm.
It makes no sense and introduces dozens of mysterious problems.
>why hasn't the language changed?
>where is the Germanic (Frank-Norman) footprint?
>why doesn't archeology check out?
Instead, we get the usual handwaving of mini dark ages everywhere, mysterious population swaps.

>>509337447
>If Germans are the master race then why did they lose World War 2?
this is Untermenschen-tier. Shut off the pc and go for a walk.

>>509338220
>they didn't
They fled because they lost the war. Also, just because they supported a home state for Jews does not mean that they were pro-jewish all of a sudden. The "Nazis are Zionist and therefore actually pro-semites" reasoning is such a stretch of enomous proportions (read: mental gymnastics). The Germans lost the war. Are you going to pretend that the Russians plundering and raping Germany was "a win"?
>>509339426
I am just asking a question and you seem to not be able to answer it. The Germans lost the war. Are you going to pretend that the Russians plundering and raping Germany was "a win"?

>>509340196
>Are you going to pretend that the Russians plundering and raping Germany was "a win"
idgi, it WAS a win though...

>>509340308
Not for Germany

>>509340417
not for the folk, elites could not care less, just like now
>>509340196
they just relocated to the new host country
their target was not win a war but switch power centre from europe to usa and they succeed
europe was either ravaged or indebted, slavs suffered the most damage

>>509340417
but it was a win for the USSR though. Plus, German women won because they got filled with superior Russian sperm. German men couldn't fight but now with Russian genes they can.

>>509339426
do you know Gunnar Heinsohn works?

>>509339426
>mysterious population swaps.
that is how globo empires work, they move population around and in older times populations moving around was easier due to smaller numbers

>>509340661
not really
ussr was ravaged by war and its population decimated, all they get was some ee vassal states that they lost 50 years later without a shoot

>>509340607
Germans and Jews are not the same people. The plan was to save Germany from the Jews. You are mixing up things.
>>>509340661
>but it was a win for the USSR though
But that is irrelevant because we are not talking about that

>>509340661
>superior Russian sperm
Okay, you are just trolling.

>>509341036
nah
germans are just jew golems, german elites were zionists and jewish
same for dutch, they are called swamp jews for a reason

>>509319269 (OP)
Obviously the Aeneid, Iliad, Avesta, and Vedas. Also the four Cycles of Ireland as well, and Macpherson's Ossian Cycle, Oera Linda Book, and the Shahnemah

>>509341194
Why are you derailing a promising thread?

>>509341194
>germans are just jew golems
>german elites were zionists and jewish
You really need to explain how Hitler supported all of this (he didn't)
>they are called swamp jews
By whom? You? We are called swamp Germans but not swamp jews.
>same for dutch
What? We are jew golems or we are zionists and jewish? Again, you are mixing up things. There is no need to make things up. It is very simple: The Germans lost.

Dammit, there's a pic somewhere of exactly this kind of thread, except it's pictures of the book covers with the country over top, instead of a map. I can't find it.