I actually worked on a farm that employed illegals. I was on the operations side of things but I know the real reason these farmers are out crying about losing their slave labor. (BTW, there are already plenty of exemptions for migrant labor and legal seasonal work but you better believe a large portion are just straight up border jumpers and authorities just turn a blind eye to it.)

The real reason is pic related. In short, illegals/and the legal seasonal migrant workers are basically a subsidy for the servicing of the interest on loans. Most farms floats insane amounts of debt. This is for a few reasons but the main is the policy at the USDA and other agencies which subsidizes the shit out of ag loans.

Building a business on debt is risky but particularly anathema for farms. I'll try to go into more detail if there's any interest ITT.

Cheap labor is like crack when your operation is in debt. Constant short term thinking.

The downstream affects I saw first hand - everyone with any skills or drive gets driven away by cheap ass behavior. Farms stopped being the fundamental economic bedrock of rural America because of this.

Take that and apply it across rural America. Farms no longer afford to employ and pay well. The problem is farming starts to get profitable when you have efficient and smart workers.

The most idiotic takes I've seen is farming is low skill. The skill and knowledge ceiling is massive. Yeah, most of our farm practices are idiotic. It's no small part our food system consists of goyslop.

Why are farmers so short sighted when they know fertilizers and 'cides kill their land? They gotta pay the bills.

I knew the revenue numbers were huge. There's unlimited demand for farm products. Food sells itself. People especially want to throw money at you if you are a local producer.

Even worse, the illegals were a liability. They could do rote basic shit but were constantly fucking up probably lost thousands in product on the regular. Forget trying to implement better systems.

>>510242444 (OP)
Could the application of collective farming method resolve the issues you mentioned? Serious question because I've read a lot about it but it's hard to separate the propaganda and lies from the truth.

And here's the psychological trap farmers are in. The trouble is farming does have some fairly predictable linear growth. More land = more crops. More animals = more eggs, etc.

But it just doesn't keep up with paying the interest off. So what do they do? Try to expand and the cycle just keeps going.

Of course, as I said, the other component is just paying workers the bare minimum.

>>510242444 (OP)
>I actually worked on a farm
no, you didn't. farmers don't have time to post anywhere, and they certainly don't have time to write screeds like you are in reddit-spacing. Most farmers don't use illegals at all because they purchase large machines to do the work of illegals. The only reason farm debt exists is because of jewish pricing controls that force farms to over-grow and then throw food out, rather than selling everything and thus driving down prices due to over-demand.

OP is in Tel Aviv in a shit hovel pretending like throwing his Jerusalem Artichokes in the ground and watching them grow because they're classified as a literal weed makes him a genius horticulturalist. Grow some actual food before lying.

>>510244722
That's a very open ended question. If you're talking about some commie revolution as far as I know that didn't really go well for the USSR.

If you want to talk about actual reality, there are places I'm aware of that do quite a lot in CSA systems that in some sense in fact support diversified family farms - a lot of them generational farms which I'm hugely in favor and makes sense. New England has quite a lot of that going on (relatively speaking to the rest of the country) which is in a lot of respects in defiance of the USDA model. But these are sort of anomalous and more or less propped up by affluent liberal types.

The issues are from the top. Probably just dismantling the gov's involvement in farming would go a long way in restoring agriculture.

>>510245804
Not a revolution but a single farm or a group of farms trying it. Would they do better than their capitalist neighbors?

>>510244978
> farmers don't have time to post anywhere
Ironically this is the sort of reddit tier brain take I see all the time. Farmers by and large lead normal lives. And I'm not a farmer, I worked for a farm, past-tense not that it matters.

>Most farmers don't use illegals at all
If they can get away with it they will and do. It varies obviously but plenty of areas this goes on all the time and not just for picking strawberries or whatever. There's a hell of a lot more going than field work even in specialized operations like that.

>The only reason farm debt exists is because of jewish pricing controls that force farms to over-grow and then throw food out

Somehow I think in your whole conception of farming is pictures of tractors and fields you saw. Yes, farm subsidies/commodity manipulation is just more retarded USDA policy.

>>510246047
Well like I said, CSAs basically carry only local products and it seems to work in keeping the local family farms in business. They tend to have really good quality product too - go figure. Even farmers markets (good ones) more or less operate in the same way of direct to consumer sales.

Not sure what you mean by "capitalist." Well run farms (debt free) can and do pay well and know the value of training workers and don't hire illegals. But to my main point here, they don't take on debt. But they are anomalous.

If you're talking about some type of hippie commune thing those things aren't workable social structures. There are a lot of back to the land type stories out there. It never works long term. It's even more remote thing now that land prices are so high. A lot of hippies tried it though back in the 60s

>>510245804
>If you're talking about some commie revolution as far as I know that didn't really go well for the USSR.
That was a peasant revolt and it went extremely well.

>>510244722
Everyone was drunk at all times on those. My grandparents know all about that shit.

> This is the reason farmers love cheap labor
Stopped reading. Real answer:
Farmers love cheap labor because it is cheap.

>>510247479
Well in what sense? As far as I know it caused mass famine.

>The most idiotic takes I've seen is farming is low skill. The skill and knowledge ceiling is massive.

There's farming and there's farm labouring.

>>510242444 (OP)
is it mandatory for farms to go into debt or something? why is it such a high rate?
or do people just decide to go all in on their farming business and that's it?

>>510242444 (OP)
all that chart says is that larger farms have more USD in debt. it would make more sense to show how leveraged they are. of someone with a million dollars and 100k in debt is not as leveraged as someone with 100k and 90k in debt. that chart means nothing

>>510242444 (OP)
>Most farms floats insane amounts of debt.
Explains how they were all able to afford those mansions.

>>510247537
>Everyone was drunk at all times on those
How come? Was it that hellish?

>>510242444 (OP)
Once I realised that basically everyone who has things I don't is loaded to the eyeballs in debt, it started making more sense how I've never managed to afford anything despite making more than the average wage for the last 6 years.

Everyone is just lying. Those things they own are still being paid off over time. Whole system is ridiculous.

>>510242444 (OP)
Dont let the graphs and propaganda trick you
Farmers are the biggest welfare queens in the world. They are worse that small business owners who hire ex-cult members.

>>510242444 (OP)
American acts like migrants on farms are their biggest issue and conveniently ignore all the bullshit Monsanto does.

>>510242444 (OP)
The whole American economy is built in infinite layers of debt. Jews literally own 90% of mutts.

>>510249945
No, that would be investor landlords. They never worked a day in their life to build a single house, but they scheme with the Jew bankers to obtain title to 30+ houses and then rent them all out at inflated prices.

>>510247814
The downstream effects of easy credit create these types of operations that need cheap labor to get by. It's become a mantra now that farms need cheap labor, it's bullshit.

I saw first hand the "stepping over dollars to pick up pennies" mentality. Farms need highly skilled and refined processes to really start to grow margins and debt is the killer and cheap labor is the byproduct.

>>510248105
It's ass easy to get credit because of the USDA and it's led to farming practices that practically require it.

>>510250754
yeah it's easy to get high credit.
what do you mean by farm practices requiring debt? or is it basically just for all the equipment/land/workers?

>>510244978
>farmers don't have time to post anywhere, and they certainly don't have time to write screeds like you are in reddit-spacing.
I have relatives that own an arable farm and they're only really busy for a few months a year during harvest time and the rest of the year barely do anything.

Perhaps forgiving ag debt is much better than forgiving student debt.
Perhaps no tax on US agriculture is a good idea because the US gvt doesn't need ag dollars to waste on grants to study the mating habits of antarctic penguins in captivity.
And no tax on veterans for life no exceptions just because fuck that.

>>510248241
When government gets involved in backing loans they're gonna be overleveraged.

>>510249787
Yep. Debt is the mask of the decreasing quality of life.

>>510242444 (OP)
After seeing that pot farm with all the illegals it makes me wonder if the farmers need the workers, or if the farm itself would have never existed without an abundance illegal workers. Were these farms ever functioning without the hordes of easily obtainable illegals?

>>510251614
>And no tax on veterans for life no exceptions just because fuck that.
agreed.
[spoiler]idk if this is the right place, but do you have any experience/knowledge with getting a vet signed up for max benefits? my dad should qualify for it but the veteran offices keep deferring him and putting his applications on hold. he's old so i think they trying to outwait his lifespan because they don't want to give him anything. [/spoiler]

The reason farms take on so much debt is because they often have extremely sporadic cashflow.
You can spend $500k on seeds and fertiliser which you won't see a return on for months (or in some cases, years). And that's not even counting things like leasing equipment and paying wages.
Farms load up on debt so that they can survive to their once-yearly payday (depending on what they're growing), but just a little bit of bad weather at the wrong time can kill your entire crop. Obviously there's insurance for it, but it doesn't cover everything. So you take on more debt while you try to grow enough to pay off last year's debt, and so on. Most farms only survive because of corporate welfare, which is often just in the form of impossibly cheap loans that only make their debt addictions worse.

Ultimately the problem for most farms is that it's an example of perfect market competition. The product is interchangeable, so it's a race to the bottom for profit margins. If you aren't doing everything absolutely perfectly, you fail. And even then, there's a huge luck component. It's no wonder farmers always kms themselves. It's a horrible career.

>>510250900
"Farming" is a broad brush but a pretty common example USDA prescribed stuff is throwing fertilizers and sprays to get more yields. But the year to year reality is diminishing returns if not decline.