Hi pol, I am a European leftist. I think billionaires shouldn't exist, just to give you an idea of what I think it's right.

I have been following a bit what the americans call "left" and this whole neutral pronouns battle.
It looks a bit like magical thinking to me: people won't start tolerating minorities just because their forced to use certain words. It's the thought that shapes the language, not the opposite.

Since you're a bunch of crazy retrogrades obsessed with gays and traps, you probably know more than me about this.

So if you have time, can you give me your take on this?

Insults are welcome as well

>>510873469 (OP)
>I think billionaires shouldn't exist
you realize that what you are saying is that you are a communist, right?

bilionares were most a front for orgs... they are not longer required! We have tech, we can go back to normal small clusters of breas and circus but healthier kind and without so much rot.

They are now usless eaters.

>>510873576
I am not against private property. With a lot of redistribution

>>510873576
What a pathetic thread.

>>510873591
To me they are just oligarchs creating wealth for themselves, and selling technologies to solve problems they created in the first place

>>510873469 (OP)
I believe billionaires should be able to exist - on an island where they can't force their values on anyone, or merely corrupt ours. When they hit one billion dollars, they should be permitted to remove their wealth from society and retire to billionaire island where they can eat each other for all I care. Ships will come from the other side of the globe to sell the billionaires things. All the billionaires will be able to do is spend. They'll live in abject comfort, and they'll of course pay servants to live and work on the island to serve them, at an extravagant rate, of course. Since they're all billionaires, no one will be kissing their asses but them, so it'll be a big part of their psychological comfort.

>>510873702
Welcome my fellow European friend

>>510873799
Shalom my fellow blogger.
What compels you to reduce the world to such binary simplifications?
Surely you are not this simple minded, no?

>>510873758
I wouldn't be so drastic, just tax them a lot and use their money for the well being of mid lower classes

>>510873964
Shalom to you, what binary what?

>>510874049
The notion of a left v right.
Do you know where these abstractions stem from?

>>510874611
They're western categories created to group certain political ideologies... I know, I know... it's a spectrum

>>510874874
>They're western categories
Please proceed to define "western" after you answer my original question.

>>510875008
you sound very knowledgeable of the matter, why don't you just educate me, my friend?

This has to be the funniest thread I've read all morning.

>>510875128
First we need to find common ground and define the things we are talking about or else we will just misuse words in one anothers view.
I am going to need you to tell me what you think "western" "progressive" and "conservative" mean.
It would help a lot if you also added shortened within reason why you believe those to mean what they do to you and where in your mind these terms originate from.

I think tracing these questions in particular will put us on the same page and in effect dissolve any perceived disagreements entirely.

>>510875375
We have not been discussing anything at the moment, it's hard to disagree on something at this point, isn't it?

You have the need for definitions and common grounds. Define then, and we'll see if we have any common ground for a discussion (on what anyways?).

>>510875315
Should I use they/them when talking to you?

>>510874019
or force them to pay that money directly to their employees, and not on the current scale. CEOs can't make 90% of the payroll anymore.

>>510875812
Agreed, redistribution to the workforce sounds just right to me.

>>510875589
No, no. I'm just having a hoot watching westerners debate, is all. I can't stand the pronoun bullshit nor the culture that sprouted around it - I'm particularly displeased with the apparent worshipfulness westerners seem to exhibit towards it when forced to face it. Then 15 minutes later they act like the issue doesn't exist at all, they completely forget about it as they hop from café to café at 2pm - wasting enormous amounts of capital on overpriced drinks and that fake two-faced americanised socializing shit of hooting at each other high-pitched and talking about squash practice or yoga.

>>510875536
>We have not been discussing anything at the moment
I disagree.
>You have the need for definitions and common grounds. Define then, and we'll see if we have any common ground for a discussion (on what anyways?).
Do you really not understand what I am saying, anon?
I want you to define what you believe because I want to illustrate to you why and how I think you are being lied to.
If I just rattle down the definitions it will save us the time and effort but I will have deprived you of this opportunity to self reflect and leave this conversation having gained something I believe you will value.
>on what anyways?
Politics, anon.
Who is this west and why do you call it so?
Why are progressivism and conservatism supposed to be mutually exclusive?

>>510875926
A major problem is that the stock market determines many things. Corporations rape because rape equals profits. Profit is the only factor that matters. Quality falls to the wayside, except to be marginally more attractive than the competition, but that can be achieved with flash. Profit must outpace inflation, and the pay must drag behind to achieve that. I don't believe the people running things now have the self-control to promote a good economy. Greed is their greatest quality. Sociopathy is a close second.

>>510873469 (OP)
>It's the thought that shapes the language, not the opposite.
"Language shapes thought" is objectively, demonstrably, empirically true for leftists and other niggercattle. Leftists are biological LLMs. They don't create anything. They rely on absorbing, mutating and disseminating linguistic patterns invented by the sentient minority.

>>510873576
>billionaires not existing is communism
American golems aren't even people at this point.

>>510876542
Never found any proof of that, I am a leftist too, I would like to understand where this comes from.

>>510877116
>I would like to understand where this comes from.
It comes from leftist arguments being all based on trying to manipulate people using labels.

Billionaire status is the most smoke and mirrors shit of all time. There are people with millions of dollars in cash and liquid assets, and when you add the value of their real estate holdings and fixed assets they're worth tens of millions on paper. Billionaires exist in a fantasy realm where only on paper based on their holdings in one or two companies they're "worth" a billion. If they tried to liquidate their holdings into a billion in bank value, transferable value, their entire enterprise would devalue so much it would never be worth it. That's why when they divorce they transfer shares, donate they transfer shares, purchase something- take a loan out against their shares. Since it's impossible to have even 10s of millions in cash equivalent holdings. A billionaire is always given their status by the investment of other billion dollar investment entities. It just makes zero sense saying their shouldn't be billionaires, since it's likely saying their shouldn't be companies doing over a billion dollars in sales or deals in a quarter. Economy of scale and profit driven motive has benefited everyone on the planet.

>>510873469 (OP)
You are not polish you are some subhuman it.

Pronouns are a civilized invention. I’m sorry your people kept you from evolving!

>>510877321
And people line up so suck their cocks for free in hopes that they'll win favor and be granted a slightly better role in the world. The richest people on earth get more free shit than most of the world gets from working.

>>510876193
Don't get me wrong my friend, I am not looking for this kind of enlightenment and to be "red pilled" or whatever.

Any categorization of the world, or of politics, is a stretched simplification.

But if you really want me to play this game, let's go then.
Here some basic work definition on left/right and western worlds:

- western world: Europe, north America and, to someone, south America as well.

- left/right: political categories that group socialist/communists/social democrats (left); liberals/nationalists/fascists et similia (right). These categories are Ill defined (they group very different ideologies) and depending on geography (e.g. liberals are considered "left" in the US).

>>510877596
Why shouldn't billionaires exist?

>>510876193
Why do I call the west "west": because it self defines it this way, and it gives a good idea of what you're talking about.

Why are progressivism and conservativsm mutually exclusive: I never said that, not sure why you think I did.

>>510877652
Why should they? The aim of society is to create wealth and well being for the masses. Just by redistributing a small fraction of billionaires wealth, the overall well-being will increase considerably

>>510877790
>The aim of society is to create wealth for the masses.
Why is this the "aim of society"?

>>510877876
It's my belief my friend, I think this is a good goal to have and that both my life and that of the others around me will be better if we pursue it.

Society exists for everyone's benefit, not just few lucky ones.

>>510878118
>It's my belief
What is your opinion based on? How do you justify this opinion?

>Society exists for everyone's benefit
Why does the existence billionaires inherently make society fail to benefit everyone?

>>510878244
It's a religion my friend, obviously. It's not based on anything but firm and strong belief.

Like that Mohammed or Jesus Christ crap.

>>510878338
You see? You spout leftist slogans, but as soon as someone asks you to explain your thought process, you falter. Your "thought" is the statistical patterns in leftist rhetoric.

>>510877466
I am not polish indeed, I use pronouns all the time just like you. I fail to see how forcing language changes will change people's mind.

>>510877596
>Any categorization of politics, is a stretched simplification.
Politics is the management of greed and the subjugation and exploitation of the slaves that keep it strong, so that the wealthy people of the world can live in abject comfort, because, let's face it, they're higher quality human beings for some reason.
It always amazes me that people respect people who embody avarice successfully. I think they should be mobbed, attacked and killed, but I'm nobody.

>>510878437
You got me my friend, you're too smart for me. I have little explanation about why economic inequalities are bad for society, I hope one day someone smarter than me will finally study this and ground my beliefs a bit.

>>510878447
>I think they should be mobbed, attacked and killed
And then what? Every time this happens, it's followed by the golems who perpetrated it also being mobbed, attacked and killed by their own.

>>510878447
> They're higher quality human beings for some reason

The typical reason is a wealthy family of origin.

>>510878537
>I have little explanation about why economic inequalities are bad for society
Obviously. All you can do is vomit phrases like "economic inequality bad" because leftism is nothing more than a syntax.

>>510878650
One day you will think more carefully about my words, probably

>>510878765
Notice how all of your further attempts to "argue" are also based on generic rhetorical patterns without any substance or anything resembling thought behind them. Leftism is nothing more than the language of a brainwashed horde.

>>510878608
give an example

>>510878644
You missed the point.

>>510879091
Every leftist-themed revolution ever.

>>510877596
>I am not looking for this kind of enlightenment and to be "red pilled" or whatever.
Its not an enlightenment and you can drop the buzzworded nonsense.
>- western world: Europe, north America and, to someone, south America as well.
Is this "west" the five eyes and if so their vassal subjects too or a blanket term for ethnic Europeans in general?
This seems to me like we are just dancing around saying white people because that would admit that these "anti" colonial sentiments are just racists masquerading as humanitarians.
The "west" btw originally refers to the occident which exclusively singles out Europe from the orient i.e. the middle and far east.
>political categories that group socialist/communists/social democrats
Okay so Ill interject again here to point out that the terms Progressive and Conservative come from Hegel and they refer to a modus operandi dependant on if a situation is understood and can be improved upon.
It is quite literally just a long winded attempt to explain to people that just because they dont fully understand why a tradition is in place does not mean it does not have value and that changing the fabric of society without demonstrating your understanding beforehand is a recipe for unforeseen consequences that you should have seen coming.

Give women voting rights comes at the cost of half the population being particularly vulnerable to scaremongering propaganda.
Let them work regular jobs and you just doubled the pool of employees while halfing their wages.
These may be justified trade-offs but they are examples of consequences that we today as a society have to live with and probably would not have agreed to were the public informed about the consequence beforehand.

Its only "left wing" in so far that the basic premise of the people pushing it was that they claim to understand the issue while a "right wing" response is nothing more than the assertion that we dont know and need more data to replicate the proposal first.

>>510878445
>>I am a European leftist

Don't push shit your people invented on me. This is not an American invention more like a European invention. Trannies came from you. Did you not forget your shit filled tranny landscape that Hitler had to remove? That is on you and the French! Tell them to fix that oh wait you won't you would just push it to America so we would have to do your work. This all came from you European! Fix your shit.

>>510879143
Be specific.
Also explain what makes it leftist. Being ruled by tyrants isn't a conservative value on the part of the people.

>>510873469 (OP)
>I think billionaires shouldn't exist
So you're against inflation?

>>510879182
> Anti colonial sentiments
Colonialism is over, time to move on. As for the "white people thing", being Italian some would argue I am not even white, let's not go down that path.

> Its only "left wing" in so far that the basic premise of the people pushing it was that they claim to understand the issue while a "right wing" response is nothing more than the assertion that we dont know and need more data to replicate the proposal first.

Interesting perspective, left comes out of ignorance while right from the acknowledgement of it.

It's a bit strong though, right refusal of change is typically due to ruling classes refusing to loose status. But not always.

As for the examples you made, there are a lot of assumptions of causal links that are very hard to prove. Shouldn't you be the one that is aware of the lack of knowledge we have?

>>510879308
Chill out my friend, no one forced anything on you. Plus, you're kind of the leaders of this revolution now, is that our fault as well?

>>510879458
>Be specific.
I was specific. The set of all leftist-themed revolutions exemplifies my claim.

>>510879758
>Colonialism is over
Is it really tho?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7afrique
>being Italian some would argue I am not even white, let's not go down that path.
Why not? Lets dispel that one too.
If "white" is a term for ethnic Europeans the Italians have indeed traced their lineage to Troy and the Scythian expansion.
And if "white" is not exclusively ethnic Europeans then why are all "white" supremacists anti semites that exclude ashkenazis in particular despite their skin colour?
>Interesting perspective, left comes out of ignorance while right from the acknowledgement of it.
Less so than the claim. There is no doubt in my mind that these consequences I listed were predicted and desired to disenfranchise the public and pitch them against one another so that their oligarchs may escape the consequences of their actions.
>Shouldn't you be the one that is aware of the lack of knowledge we have?
Of course. That is why regardless of my liberal views I am perceived as conservative.
We do have the benefit of hindsight and we can extrapolate from the abysmal track record of these policies that their proponents are hostile through incompetence at best.

>>510873469 (OP)
>It's the thought that shapes the language, not the opposite.
Language is powerful and if you slowly molest the language so people are using it the way you want, you will make them think the way you want them to think. Think about how all the normies were suddenly (and non-chalantly) using the term "social distancing" 5 years ago, after never using that term before in their lives. Don't under-estimate language.

>>510879868
No, you are the leaders it’s your descendants mixed with indians that are causing this revolution. This is because you send your filth down here and then wait for years then when we find out it was you. You then turn around and say oh it’s not me um it’s actually you. You people created and helped trannies that's why they are living well in your countries while you pay for their surgeries and their medication. So fix your shit before you come to us. You shitalian!

>>510881298
There was a pandemic going on as well, and people were willing to comply. If someone really rejects and idea, forcing some vocabulary at best will polarize their opinion.

>>510880288

> Colonialism
Wikipedia shows a nice map of the past there. I would hardly say that is France pulling the strings in Africa nowadays. It's mainly the Chinese colonization going on, and their are more subtle and smart than us Europeans in doing that.

> Whiteness
Well, there are a lot of "it's" there and that definition bent as many times as the discussions I had on the matter. I was either part of the white world of not depending on the opposing part's convenience. Another Ill defined concept I fear.

As for the remaining topics, as I said many of the consequences you described are hard to prove a posteriori nowadays. How do you say they were predicted?

>>510881638
>Mixed with indians

Dude they were hardly any Italians in the US until late 19th century. The so called indians were already very few when we arrived. How could we mix with them?

>>510881809
>There was a pandemic going on as well
Was there?

>>510882463
A lot of "ifs"

>>510882463
>I would hardly say that is France pulling the strings in Africa nowadays.
Fair however they are militarily enforcing the central banks rule over the "union" and went as far as to deploy troops to defend their uranium claims.
>Well, there are a lot of "it's" there
>Another Ill defined concept I fear.
That is the point.
You need to lock down the definition because otherwise a liar will abandon his motte and take to the bailey.
These talks about "whiteness" rely on a fluid and nebulous definition to expand and contract whenever it suits the claimants needs like ashenazis doing the fellow white people thing while telling themselves and one another it weren't so.
You being "white" boils down to if and when infighting is needed because non Europeans are deeply afraid of European unity.
>How do you say they were predicted?
I assert that our tyrants are cruel but not stupid.
They may not be the smartest or posses a lot of foresight but their actions are too specific to suggest they were not deliberately exploiting their subjects to their own benefit while merely presenting it as benevolent and just.

>>510873469 (OP)
>Hi pol, I am a European leftist
So basically you're retarded

>>510883655
Oh right, I see your point there. based on my personal experience, if it was a plot, it was really well made.

>>510883852
Well yeah they just want things and the way to get them is explotation

If you point out they are exploiting someone like the image of an attractive female they will either deny it or excuse it

They will never say

Yes I not anon posted that image b4 it was benefitial for me at the time

>>510883852

I do agree in the pursuit of European unity, but I am still not sure it should be done using genetics or "race". Culture and worldview is more than enough, to me at least.

As for the causes of current decay, if some elites are pulling the strings, I wouldn't say their actions went in the direction of vote for women, I think everything is about centralizing wealth and power in the hand of few. Which it's exactly what happened from the 80s up to nowadays.

>>510883881
You got me there, never been the smart one in the family

>>510883887
It was a stress test for mass human genetic engineering. ask anyone how you would most efficiently alter human dna at scale and it’s mRNA injection plus engineered viral strain to enter the cell nucleus

>>510873469 (OP)
You argue like niggers do math

>>510884972
Let's say English is not my native language and that does not help.

Plus, I didn't want to argue.

>>510884059
>Well yeah they just want things and the way to get them is explotation
No.
That is your way.
Germans dont need to exploit anyone because we have an unlimited supply of something other people want in return.
German Labour.
>If you point out they are exploiting someone like the image of an attractive female they will either deny it or excuse it
Women are beautiful.
Get over it.
Their image being attractive to you in no way means they were exploited.
You just assume it because your culture operates this way.
>>510884397
>but I am still not sure it should be done using genetics or "race"
Who defines what this race even is?
One moment you are part of it and the next you aren't again.
Obviously the union must be on European terms and our terms are very simple and always were.

Ancestry with the exclusion by banishment.

If you hail from the Romans you hail from my tribe.
Time makes enemies out brothers for all men but mine.
As long as our tribe has not banished you and your bloodline you are and will remain part of it regardless what a bunch sodomites say online.

>>510873469 (OP)
It's an autist fight.

Germanics are autistic about gendering things. Not just men and women; in the purer Germanic languages, it's important that you don't get the wrong gender for your FURNITURE. I'm not sure about Italian, but Spanish and French have the same autism.

Most people get annoyed when misgendered. I don't mean most trans people; most cis people ALSO get annoyed when misgendered. There's a group of autists who thinks they'll never misgender people if they use gender-neutral pronouns by default.

Non-binary autists want gender-neutral pronouns for themselves.

Genetic authoritarian autists want strongly gendered pronouns so they can tell whether the laws that apply to women or the laws that apply to men apply to you. They also want to require trans people to use their original gender because they don't want to allow anyone to change sex.

Anti-authoritarian autists want to piss of the authoritarians. This is why you'll sometimes see news stories about how some middle school is 50% enbies. It's not that there are ACTUALLY that many enbies, it's that kids are good at figuring out what triggers their enemies.

Personal take: the default pronouns should be ungendered, it's dumb to have to check someone's pronouns to avoid offending them in casual conversation. Professional and technical pronouns should generally be ungendered: "Hän" is a lot less clunky than "he or she" or "he or she or maybe they", and removing gender cues from professional conversation reduces the amount of subconscious "tits or gtfo" and "you're a man so your opinion is irrelevant" people get.

Anyone who thinks that a specific pronoun policy is going to wipe out sexism or enforce traditional values or eliminate troons is not just autistic, they are also retarded.

>>510885954
This sense of unity is very much needed, I am not sure we agree on every but I think on that at least, we do. Thanks anon

>>510873469 (OP)
it's not linguistic power plays. it's a language developed to describe an indescribable cultural phenomenon. there is no logical set of words for what has happened. the inability for trannies to even decide on their own name or gender isn't solely a function of their idiocy. it is a purely cultural confusion.

as a joke, some faggots on the internet started sending each other picutres of filipino ladyboys. the vast majority of the population shrieked and laughed and then went on with their lives.

~2 percent of the population had the opposite reaction. it turns out a lot of huge fucking faggot closet cases would latch onto this 'female presenting' dude with a huge dick as being somehow less gay. and then a lot of these same faggots decided they wanted to be the faggot in the dress and that wasn't gay either btw.

it became this vicious cycle of absolute out of this world homosexuality and then a severe psychologically compulsive homophobia and self hatred that just consumed this entire half of American culture. The other half of the culture was consumed in pure hatred of trannies. the poorly defined language to describe these faggots is created by the unknowable but obviously immense faggotry taking place at any given moment. the situation was in flux from any frame of reference.

now that we're nearing the end of this experiment I think we're all in agreement that whatever they're called, what's important is that we should have ZERO of them.

>>510887901
You are welcome.
Its important you all keep and nurture your own culture however.
Especially in a collective ones individuality has a huge psychological significance to none more so than us who take pride in their kin.

>>510873469 (OP)
The pronouns fight was a battle over the meaning of language.
Men dressed as women demanded to be called women.
Women dressed aa men demanded to be called men.
The fad encouraged youth to identify as "they/them" and "bi" to be socailly acceptable (not a "bigot")
If you "mis-gendered" them they often physically attacked you then retroactively called "mis-gendering" violence.
It was being taught in elementary schools as the correct way to act.
This was the destruction of the meaning of words at the most basic level.

Children are not capable of informed consent to the destruction of their puberty, which is determined by their sex.