>Truth is not determined by votes or crowds.
>The natural moral order, as revealed by God and reason, should govern society. Not the will of a mass of people driven by emotion, ideology, or self-interest.

Politics is a technical function, a service to the common good, not a spectacle or battlefield of conflicting passions.

Hence, mass politics, with its emotional appeals, slogans, class struggle, or tribal party battles, are irrational and dangerous.

>>511141258 (OP)
>>The natural moral order, as revealed by God and reason

Who gets to decide what that is?
What happens if we disagree with them?

>>511141258 (OP)
Bump

Best thread rn

Is Martin Luther the new meme now that the orthoducks and tradcath memes have run their course? I'm just curious because the Lutheran Church is responsible for importing 2 million somalis.

>>511141571
>What happens if we disagree with them?
Then you're in the wrong.

You liberals really underestimate value of your opinion

>>511141258 (OP)
Didn't they elect the Pope via a vote?
Supposedly God guided their decision?

>>511141664
This is st Thomas Aquinas.

Most based man in last millennium. Try be 1% as based

>>511141571
psychopaths, check roman empire to see what happens if you reject it

>>511141258 (OP)
>>The natural moral order, as revealed by God and reason, should govern society. Not the will of a mass of people driven by emotion, ideology, or self-interest.
The problem is finding a system that actualizes the natural moral order as best as possible. All systems ultimately fail at this.
What system would you propose as an alternative to the current one?

>>511141571
>Who gets to decide what that is?
God, via the Catholic Church and public servants that faithfully and consistently adhere to its teachings.
>What happens if we disagree with them?
Error has no rights. You are free to privately disagree but never to threaten the natural order or the peace of the nation.
>>511141664
That's St. Thomas Aquinas, basically the antithesis of Luther. You need to do some serious reading.
>>511141774
Yes, men who have a formidable intellectual background, studied for 10+ years and have worked their entire lives in the curia, the cardinals. Not the masses or demagogue political actors.
>>511141694
Based.

>>511141694
You didn't answer who would be deciding what is the "natural moral order".

>>511142060
I believe in establishing a sort of meritocratic, highly exclusive democracy based on knowledge and intellectual engagement with topics necessary for nation-building, like philosophy, history, law, economics, etc... All within the limits that Catholic teaching places on ideology. The prime minister or president should be voted in by the officials that this select number of people vote into office.

Of course, reaching such a system would require playing the long game and infiltrating the system by merit and not demagoguery, like Salazar did, but it is not utopian at all.

>>511141892
Ok, sounds kind of like what we already have

>>511142100
>via the Catholic Church and public servants that faithfully and consistently adhere to its teachings.

So if the Church says I have to welcome migrants into my country, I have to comply?

>>511141258 (OP)
>A latrino tells you society should be run by the delusions of some medieval hobgoblin
the internet in 2025 everyone

>>511142402
Some of it is imprinted in our nature. The rest: >>511142100
Really, try reading Aquinas or if you don't have enough time there are books summarizing his position.

This is last big classical philosopher. Later you just get postmodern bullshit that is only useful to become aevernal incel

>>511142436
>I believe in establishing a sort of meritocratic, highly exclusive democracy based on knowledge and intellectual engagement with topics necessary for nation-building, like philosophy, history, law, economics, etc... All within the limits that Catholic teaching places on ideology. The prime minister or president should be voted in by the officials that this select number of people vote into office.
That actually sounds pretty good, and similar to Plato's Republic.
I agree knowledge and intellect should be the key qualifications for political leadership, especially in philosophy, history, law, economics, and perhaps also general science.

>>511142536
Immigration is an issue that can be decided based on the national interest at the time and context of the specific country. It's not Catholic teaching on faith on morals. It's not even contemplates by Catholic social teaching.

What you can't do is advocate for the annihilation or collective blaming of groups you don't like based on ideology.

But it is fully in line with Catholic teaching to preserve the borders of a nation. In fact, it is essential to prevent incompatible cultures/religions from displacing the Church's authority or threatening national order. Migrants who are welcomed should be assimilated to Catholic culture by the State.

Alternatively, if you want no immigration at all. You can deliberately keep the nation stable and peaceful, but economically unappealing to immigrants through State intervention.

Jesus Christ is God who died, was buried and resurrected. He did this to save you from eternal hell. His blood atonement grants forgiveness for all your sins permanently, and its the only way to be righteous to God. You can't trust in your own actions to make you righteous. Once you trust only in the finished work of Jesus Christ for salvation, NOT your own works, you're saved in Him forever!

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9)

“Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.” (Rom 5:9)

“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:” (1 Corinthians 15:3-4)

“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” (Romans 10:9-10)

"For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not." (Ecclesiastes 7:20)

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." (Romans 4:5)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VRT2FFXntc

>>511142100
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F8ZRfUpcJU

>>511141258 (OP)
>>The natural moral order, as revealed by God and reason, should govern society. Not the will of a mass of people driven by emotion, ideology, or self-interest.
How tf would you even do that? The natural order can't settle a bond issue or set a tax rate.

>>511143517
That's an economic issue. What I'm saying is that there must be clear moral limits within the people designated to solve the kind of issues you mention, as well as the other technical issues of governance.
For instance, within a Catholic framework you can easily argue why it's immoral to settle a 50% tax rate, but also why it is immoral to remove taxes altogether. You get rid of ideological extremes and work for the interests of the country at that particular time.

>>511141892
This is why Christ had to exist.
While psychopaths might use reason for self interested purposes, truth is the way to God.

>>511141258 (OP)
one can assert these with confidence but at the same time if you aren't questioning the authority of the claims you aren't better than the average rabbleman who babbles about politics, because "revelation" here is not even personal, but far removed in time and space

there is fundamentally no well thought reason why you don't trust the oracle at Delphi but you trust Moses' ramblings other than the very same mob mentaliy that makes you take the side of the numbers

>>511141258 (OP)
True, humanism and human politics will always disappoint in the end. The only consistent theme in all of White Western Civilization is the Word of God.
Separating government and Christ is actually not a Christian doctrine, Jesus Christ is the coming king and only civil and religious authority (King of kings and Lord of lords) for any true Christian. Anything else is just a side trip in this human struggle until Christ destroys this entire Babylonian-Roman humanist system and brings His complete kingdom on this earth.

>>511141571
>The natural moral order, as revealed by God and reason
>Who gets to decide what that is?

It was decided and made obvious by God. Whites are good and non whites are bad. That is the natural moral order of the world God created. Resisting that order causes only suffering.