Libertarianism claims that money is an emergent market phenomenon derived from just voluntary exchange, and that capitalist profits emerge from money when entrepreneurs create value for society, and are therefore also just.
Their entire theory is the state merely creates waste, like a parasite, and abolishing the state will allow the emergent "free market" to operate optimally.
This is all totally wrong.

Money is not in fact emergent from organic trade. Systems of barter allowed for informal, tacit arrangements where debts didn't have to be settled with precision, which is the function money provides.
The only time precise debt settlement was needed was with the weregild, the blood money to buy out of a family feud. This weregild concept was extended to pay off warlords in the form of protection money, which then became taxes.
With the introduction of the state and taxes, money finally became universally valuable. This in fact increased trade beyond the issuing state's political control, but the value of money was premised on it being redeemable for taxes at the end of the day.

Pre-money was also protection money, but more informally within local class structures, trade between distant wealthy petty chiefs.

1/3

>>512155014 (OP)
Wealth is not moral or just under property theory. This is a lie.

Anglo-Saxon property theory divides a tribes wealth into personal estates and the commons. This is in contrast to state communism bronze age agrarianism. Even so, within Anglo-Saxon property rights, the establishment of household estate wealth depends on an interrelationship between the private estate and the commons. Men provide common defense to the Anglo-Saxons rights - a commons in itself - and the general commons of the tribe.

The issue is that wealth needs to be defended. Any wealth that exceeds what an individual man could produce with his own labor becomes the target of other men who can use their labor to steal it. You have to be able to personally defend your own wealth.
Anglo-Saxon morality combats brigandry through collective defense, but this would break down if one guy in the tribe is massively rich and enforces shitty exploitive usury or landlord fees with a permanent game theory advantage.

Lockean capitalist wealth is Jewish AF, and has no moral basis.

2/3

>>512155028
Private wealth is not "property" and it's not just under entrepreneurial merit. It's a privilege the state extends to oligarchs - defending, establishing, enforcing their wealth - and in turn the oligarchs provide unified support to the state.
In fact, it takes national debt tied to taxation power to create the "debt treadmill" that forces the entire economy to "keep up" or lose value. Capitalism as we know it depends fundamentally on the state, and there's no anarcho-capitalist world without the state. Private wealth capitalism won't function without the state, without coercive taxation of the labor class which is made desperate for capital through a permanent game theory disadvantage.

An alternative would be something called commons or community equity capitalism. Where capital is owned by community groups, for the benefit of the community, where covenants manage the divide between how that wealth is spent on the commons versus being retained for private exchange by households.
These communities then must cooperate with each other to do investment, and risk is with the "lender" not with the borrower when it comes to investment, making capitalism slower and more conservative, but resilient to the pressure of the "debt treadmill" and ultimately more value driven.

Debt capitalism forces cost cutting. Equity capitalism forces quality improvements. All value in market economics comes from either cutting costs or improving quality.

3/3

>>512155055
>Capitalism as we know it depends fundamentally on the state, and there's no anarcho-capitalist world without the state.
Retard
We don't live under capitalism. Rich people using the power of the state to artificially maintain their companies' market position is just a form of oligarchy.
Anarcho-capitalism follows the abolition of the state. Many large companies would collapse in a world with no state to bail them out or enforce IP and patent "laws".

>>512155280
There's no such thing as "anarcho-capitalism". There's no debt-wealth capitalism without a state.

Libertarian theory is wrong because Rothbard never accounted for human violent action in his theory. Theft incurs a cost but gains a reward. Accumulated wealth must be defended at cost. This integrates into a united political economy.
There's no free market of exchange with abstract capital that can exist on mere principle.

Having capital means having a game theory advantage that lets a person wield purchasing power in the market without having to prove entrepreneurial merit. Also, not all profits are purely the result of creating value. Mature industries don't create that much new value and aren't as profitable, meaning that it's NECESSARY to establish monopoly power to stabilize and rationalize markets.
There's no such thing as debt-capital industry without a necessary progressive era of government involvement and "mixed" economics.

>>512155280
You can have a form of capitalism with distribute wealth and decentralized power. Investment won't be debt-capital driven, but equity driven. The community will invest it surplus resources into projects that maintain the value of the commons before private benefit can be accrued.
The model is scaleable, like how Jefferson described the US as a "Republic of States". You can have a "Commons of many commons".

>>512155518
>Libertarian theory is wrong because Rothbard never accounted for human violent action in his theory.
It really isn't complicated, you try to steal you get shot in the face as that is a violation of the NAP.
>>512155637
>muh common good muh community muh equity
Might as well be honest and admit you're a commie

>>512155802
>hurr get shot in the face
Not if a trained team of operators and professional thieves have industrialized the process of theft, in fact turning it into a protection racket.

>commie
More like a national socialist.

Libertarian theory is factually inaccurate. It's Jewish. It demands we have no connections, no duties or obligations to a wider community.
Accumulated wealth, the heart of capitalism, is a social function. It takes the consensus or political structure of a society to defend accumulated wealth. Individuals lack the means to defend accumulated wealth.
At best they can hire and manage a team of private mercenaries, but so will everyone else. This is how the state forms, it's no different.

You've just never thought this through actually.

Commons thinking is not communistic. It doesn't say everyone has to be equal. It says that there are certain fundamentals that society are owed by their compact, in exchange for honoring the property rights of others in the tribe.

If you reject the commons, you're not a libertarian or a free marketeer. You're just a wannabe oligarch in a feudal system.

>>512155802
People like you, at this point in history, are either literally Jewish defending a system of global oligarchy and goy slavery OR you're a fucking retard that has no idea how market economics or politics actually work.

>>512155802
Communism and capitalism are both systems promoted by Jews, which involve oligarchies or ruling bureaucracies comprised mainly of Jews, where inherently everyone else is part of a universal global blob either of equal same dominated individuals, or diverse but disunited, powerless individuals who are forced to accept the outcomes of the monopolized oligarchic economy.

>>512155802
The reason Rothbard never got capitalism right is that if he was honest about the human action of violent power, he might be seen to give ground to the communists.
However, the best argument against communism is its Jewish nature.
Rothbard, as a Jew, would struggle to go there.

However, at the very end of his life, Rothbard was acceding to white nationalism because he saw in the horror of the US Empire of the 1990s, something far far worse than some decentralized rednecks holding power.

>>512156064
>It demands we have no connections, no duties or obligations to a wider community.
It doesn't demand shit. It simply allows for freedom of association (like what that "whites only" community is doing). You want to be part of a community? Find like-minded individuals.

What it is characterized by though is consent. Your ideology is the one that demands. It is the one that violates other people's natural rights. Your ideology is the ideology of murder, theft and rape. Because it does not care for the voluntary. Only violence.

You want to have a nazi society? Perfectly fine in a libertarian/anarcho capitalist framework. As long as everyone involved consents. Want to have a commie society? Same thing.

People who are for forced and violent collectivism instead of voluntary peaceful collectivism are little more than primitive beings part of a hive mind.
>>512156128
I'm for freedom. YOU are for slavery as YOU want people to obey YOU and YOUR way of life and can't respect other people's basic property rights and ability to make their own decisions.
>>512156259
>muh jewssss
And here we have the hallmark of natsoc thinking: collective guilt. Let me guess, you want to live in a society where there are laws that discriminate against jews, or want to expel jews, or maybe even physically harm them. And why? Because they were born jewish. Just lol, no different from communists and cultural marxists. Cancer

>>512156797
Communities are voluntary. And if they impose constraints, how is that different than a "free market" where your entire life is managed by the structures imposed by oligarchs?
Why is it that when market forces compel you beyond your power to act, that's okay, but when a social community of your friends and kin compel you, that's "coercion". Are you a fucking idiot?

>freedom
Being ruled by oligarchs who have a permanent market advantage over you and can dictate your life using monopolistic negotiating advantage isn't freedom.

>Jews
If you're going to bitch out and bluepill on Jewish power in this world, you're already a lost retard that knows nothing.

>>512156797
The worst part is that I imagine you as some Gen X boomer who stopped engaging with any new political thought 15 years ago, and made your fortune selling software to the same institutional entities that are building a permanent slave surveillance system for us now.
You can bitch about voluntaryism and markets without the state, but your "freedom" to make "voluntary" choices in the world is afforded to you by becoming a petty oligarch yourself who earned the privilege by laboring away for the same people entrenching monopoly state power.
You want to have your cake and eat it to, are a delusional, retarded dumbass.

>>512156797
Not one single person with wealth in this economy has just rights to it.
Simply because of the Federal Reserve making it so that owners of capital have an advantageous access to newly created capital, which becomes inflation and increased future debt burden by the time it reaches the majority.
If you're on the "side" that is outpacing inflation, you are basically in the camp of the oligarchs that benefit from the Federal Reserve.
This is what your dumbass can't sort out when it comes to market economics.

No "voluntary exchange" can overcome the fact that ALL exchange in this market is corrupted by the Federal Reserve, whose intervention is so universal and so massive, it obliterates any kind of just or legitimate claim to wealth.

/pol/ better listen to this shit, it's of critical importance.
There will be a communist revolution in America after the boomers die in less everyone can grasp what I'm saying here.

Damn /pol/ is retarded. No economists or political theorists left.
Just one asshole with 15 year old Mises talking points.

>>512155055
100%
I was just doing this same argument somewhere else.

>>512158694
What I've realized is that you have to tie private property to an reciprocal obligation to some commons. That investment capital has to be something that is owned within this joint obligation and serves the balance between commons and property that has already been established within the community.

This is the only way to do non-slave non-Jewish industrial economics.

>>512155055
>it takes national debt tied to taxation power to create the "debt treadmill" that forces the entire economy to "keep up" or lose value
this is true
the rest I dont really agree with
but yes, debt ultimately forces a never ending rat race to avoid the collpase of the system
that is ultimately the problem

>>512158600
muh economics is no different from water witching or brainology

whoever's payroll their one they barf out data to support, like any modern "science." Abstract bullshit

>>512159027
You don't understand industrial organization then. I think this is an obscure discipline mostly taught only in American MBA schools during the 1970s-1990s. It's the economics of semi-monopolistic competition and how a very diverse and robust industrial economy designed to operate with less government micro management would structure.

Industrial structure (how many companies, and how market share is distributed) is defined by the rationalized market structure. There have to be predictable prices, consumer markets, costs of capital. This allows businesses to plan, and most importantly, affects competitive behavior. Businesses decide to remain within a niche or expand their market share. To become a new entrant or not. This REQUIRES stable and predictable market structures.

National debt creates a sort of metronome or timing belt that anchors predictability and allows for companies to determine the structure of industry.

I'll tell you why this is necessary. Without this feature, capital is inherently self destructive. You can't remain profitable without remaining competitive, and competition destroys profitability. Another paradox is that economic value (profit) is created with efficiency improvements, but overall this causes deflation and lowers the value of the products you're selling.

This is because debt based capitalism in a "free market" without government help doesn't actually function from a technical perspective. Profitability and competition only apply in growing or new industrial sectors. Mature sectors can only preserve wealth by cooperating to preserve value.

Ideally, the balance between competition and cooperation will be managed by community based equity, where the incentive to cooperate already exists because the structure of decision making values the commons equally to private property (colloquially speaking).

1/2

>>512159509

Without commons capitalism, the 20th century required central banking and the debt treadmill to basically permanently disadvantage labor against capital. Labor cannot be allowed to save enough money to tell employers to "fuck off" when employers are giving undesirable conditions, otherwise the rationalized market structure would fail.

So, central banks force the entire economy to "keep up" which gives all the negotiating power to established semi-monopoly industries, and solves the game theory problem that would have to otherwise be solved through community cooperation.
Here, the oligarchs and monopolists are cooperating to keep their advantage over everyone else. So it's still a cooperative solution. It's government enforcing by violence a socialism for the rich.

2/2

>>512155014 (OP)
No wealth exists outside the commons, its fountian comes from the woods, the water and the dirt. There can be fun little made u0 games like fiat frenzy, gold hoarder gx or hashwar 9000 but it all rests on phosphate horizon

>>512155014 (OP)
Yes I also watched that YT video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-D5FERQzU4

>>512159144
Bullshit /pol/tarded take.

However, yes, academic and tv "economists" are all coping retards. What they're doing isn't water witching, it's just lying and cope and propaganda with false government statistics and sophistry.

Technically, infinite series macroeconomic econometrics is water witching, so if that was your point, you're right. Officially, this is how central banks set interest rates, but obviously in reality all interest rate decisions are political and hand waving intuition based on backroom institutional consensus.

>>512155014 (OP)
Ooof I wonder whether you'll get to the/a point.
>>512155028
So far the answer/issue still is just one word:
Stability.

>>512155055
Who should own it then? The entire idea of people all being equally wealthy, or nearly so, is ridiculous. That's not what happens in practice.
As such you either end up with socialism, where society has to pay for underperformers (instead of their family), or wealth inequality, because one guy is a far better fucking worker.

Now what if this guy is a far better fucking worker across three generations? A veritable expert. Also has 3 sons and 10 grandsons; in other words he is far more successful and productive than his peers.
What the fuck is supposed to happen to him?
>he gets rank and wealth

>>512159712
MMT is a bullshit theory, but some MMTers are extremely good because they're pragmatic. They're philosophically cynical in the good sense.

He's really right about this.
For instance there was a sea shell money in Africa or some shit. This wasn't money.
This was protection taxes that warlords extracted from villagers, and it emerged as trade money because they realized the benefit of all using the same medium to extract from their serfs so that they could all trade and integrate the economics of their oligarchy.

There's no "free tribesman" system of economics where people just settled on a form of money and used it, because VOLUNTARY FUCKING EXCHANGE is inherently barter based with informal, imprecise debt arrangements.
Formal, coercive arrangements require precise bean counting, because war and the use of troops and weapons is a much more punishing and precise economics problem.

This is what libertarians miss. Strict, precise economizing of resources is a requirement of zero-sum warfare. War and violence are economic activities.

>>512159941
Contracts, community compact.
A community credit union with personal accounts and a commons account.
If you "buy out" of the union, you can get your account paid to you, but at a penalty.
If you bring in profits from the outside, a large portion go to the commons.
People can compete to manage parts of the commons, and get disproportionately rewarded.

Not everyone has to be equal, there's just a point where if one guy is benefitting from every single fucking transaction because he owns everything because of his early advantage, the community can call bullshit.

In all probability, what you own will be related to what you manage, and the more important and difficult (rare skills) the economic activity you manage is, the more money you'll make. Some activities will be commons related and "public" and others can be purely private.
Market economics can apply to determine values.

The key is cooperative economics.
This is where you sign up for a project and are promised a fixed share of the final output, in percentage, not dollars.
You can actually incentivize people to cooperate instead of compete because competition often destroys value.
Winners of competition can be compensated what they would have earned and then some, if they agree to cooperate and eliminate the waste caused by competition.
Typically, mature industries with known value prospects are more conducive to cooperative arrangement, where growing new industries which have more risk are subject to competition which is just a form of a value seeking function that rewards people skilled at finding and creating value.

A community equity union would cooperate and have commons in mature industries run kind of like utilities.
There would be less political control over the market. Most cooperation would occur through economic arrangements, not coercion on the consumer. You may have to voluntarily agree to, for instance, only go through one electric utility or something.

>>512159941
As I wrote in my other post, stability is notoriously challenging within capitalist economics due to numerous paradoxes caused by the clashing need for both cooperation and competition.
The solution must come from game theory, and new financial structures that incorporate dynamic cooperative elements.

Central banks and the WEF/FED global economic crash out is itself a kind of cooperative solution, with the oligarchs cooperating to stay alive by crashing capitalism.

>>512160436
That's a reasonable starting point to fixing some of these issues in the modern day yes; I like to call it voluntary association.
>you belong only to groups or systems you want to belong to and pay whatever dues
Opt-in or opt-out as you want, to also give people a natural environment among likeminded people that can replace clan structures and minimize conflict.
One of the main issues is protecting people from their own stupidity, which is the source of a lot of wealth and other troubles.

>>512159694
The game theory here is that if people are slaving away for what is being horded, then naturally there should be a legion of bow hunters. Assuming we don't have this lie and illusion of Lockean morality that accumulated private property is sacred.
If everyone decided to bow hunt, ranchers and the feds wouldn't have the resources to stop it.

However, this could lead to a commons crash out where the cows are overhunted.

Instead, the solution is to see that the economics of ranching are well-known and so there's very little innovation left in the field. Therefore, it's not a growth or profit based industry, and more of a utility.
As a result, ranching should be operated using co-op economics, but where ALL consumers and ALL ranchers are part of the co-op.
There is room for competition. Logistics, bovine health care workers, this can all be competitive bid services managed by the judgment of individual ranchers. However, market growth and prices, big picture stuff, will be decided politically by participating members.
Ranchers are free to defect, of course, but since the economics of the industry are well known, it's incredibly unlikely they'll outcompete the cooperative.
If the cooperative becomes wasteful, however, it will be easy to outcompete and replace it.

Early movers who win the first rounds of market innovation and make profits have more bargaining power when cooperative agreements are made (since you are always legally allowed to defect, the punishment for doing so is economic).

Our government of course bans this kind of collusion. Even consumers could form a consumer union to negotiate for better prices, saying they'll strike and switch to pork.

Again, government bans all this and makes it state functions instead. To protect the oligarchs (technically, also the tax base).

>>512155014 (OP)
>people owning property is oppression i should own it without any work on my part
>people getting together and starting a currency so they can trade is oppressive to me i want to ban it
>"i shouldn't have to create value for others to get anything i should just share all their stuff automatically"
You are without doubt a worthless excuse for a nigger.

>>512160897
The important piece is for these micro-pools of capital to have the ability themselves to opt-out of the wider economy. A community needs to also have the means to grow its own food. It has to be able to at least say no to almost all outside economic deals, to have basic bargaining power.
With basic bargaining power, it can engage in both political and economic negotiation.
It can engage in purely voluntary, market economics, so long as any deal it makes retains its economic and political ability to opt-out.

One problem in the past is micro-polities made deals that could not be reversed, so the value of cooperating in union was lost.
But, I guess the Prussian Army was too good.

>>512161205
With the structure of capital today, the rich are actually benefitting for free from stolen labor. When capital has favorable access to new capital, and the economy is undergoing severe inflation, there is an inherent tax by everyone whose wealth is outpacing inflation on everyone whose wealth can't keep up with it.

That is not property or justice by any definition.
You're just a retarded Tory Boy.

>>512161205
HR marketing cunts are not creating that much value, faggot.
Neither are the nonces on fleet street or in the City.
British wealth is just a global tax evasion racket funded by global crime.

'Capitalism' died and went to heaven permanently in 2008.
after 2008 and through 2025, we don't have "capitalism"—all HNW entities, corporations, govs since 2008 are totally dependent upon infinite continuous supplies of debt note fiat currency QE from private central banks to keep from imploding instantaneously.
This isn't "capitalism"

>>512161302
>>512161353
So you faggots both agree that the problem isn't currency or private property ownership at all, it's the fact monopolies and vested interests can become exponentially richer without creating value? Good. Then the solution is to heavily tax rent-based incomes (income from simply owning an asset) and break up monopolies (fewer than 6 competitors in an industry have been shown to increase costs to consumers).

>>512161640
That's certainly true.
The current housing costs and inflated wealth assets, everyone who made money since 2008, it's all unquestionably illegitimate, even under traditional libertarian theory.
So how do you unwind these housing costs? Either a total crash out of the system, total chaos, end the fed. Or, a state managed redistribution of wealth of some kind.
Not that I advocate for that, but the premise of the legitimacy of capitalistic wealth is hard dead post-2008 and people need to realize that old school free market arguments will not counter the communists in the coming years. No one will find them credible.

The communist revolution has already occurred. Jeffrey Epstein was the organizer responsible for setting up the MBS system and 2008 was giving BlackRock and Jewish private equity managers keys to the economy. It's de facto centrally planned now.
In fact, their digital surveillance plans are meant to include non-judicial punishment for thought crime. Private surveillance of speech, and private punishment for speech, in a monopolized centrally planned "private economy".
"Free market capitalism" as it might have been is hard dead already.

>>512161966
There's no accumulated private property without state intervention, and private wealth can't survive the chaos of the market without monopolization of industry.

You're just promoting a weird mixed economy that is half illegitimate private debt wealth capitalism, and half communism.

Typical insular, anti-dynamic mindset of the British.

Also, /pol/ is banned in the UK so fuck off you Ofcom licensed shit head.

Libertarianism was literally conceived as a gayop for boomers and low IQ goyim of the post boomer generations. The intention was to push extreme individualism in the hopes of depoliticizing and rendering the target powerless.

>>512162888
Funny how it arose at the death of the Paleoconservative anti-New Deal.
Ayn Rand and Rothbard mania were post Barry Goldwater.
They had to kill McCarthy and Forrester before bringing in libertardation.

When you look back on the evolution of the conservative movement post-war, everything revolves around distracting boomercons from redpilling on Jews.

When boomers rebelled against "collectivism" they were rebelling against Jewish communism and Jewish neoliberalism's attacks on white nationalism.

>>512155014 (OP)
>>512162609
the post-1970s global economy is Financialized.
(and as noted above, 'capitalism' no longer exists after 2008) No 'libertarian' or even Austrian/M. Friedman theories of global economics have relevance any more
Financialization of the global economy began under the neoliberal offshoring of western manufacturing productive assets under Thatcher-Reagan, which concomitantly introduced never-before-existed-in-history speculative debt instruments to wide use across the investment banks of Wall Street and City of London/globally, such as CDOs, credit default swaps, derivatives, mortgage-backed securities etc.
It is an "economy" based *entirely and solely* on making money off of money, this is how the vast majority of the world's wealth is generated today: not from price discovery mechanism (<--which has been eradicated) or anything in the Real Economy of goods-services-commodities (that might as well not even exist to HNW entities and individuals that have Cantillon effect first-access to giga-tranches of debt note fiat currency QE from central banks to shovel into their black box gigacasino entirely walled off from the Real Economy, or stock buybacks)


The Money Deluge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6m49vNjEGs

97% Owned — How is money created
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcGh1Dex4Yo

>"The real money to be made in the world today is not by producing anything at all. It's simply by forms of speculating — basically making money from money. That's the most profitable, and by far and away the biggest form of economic activity that exists in the world today."
— Nick Dearden (quoted from '97% Owned' documentary)

>>512161353
>British wealth is just a global tax evasion racket funded by global crime

Hidden eurodollar empire of the United Kingdom — The Spider's Web
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np_ylvc8Zj8

Global eurodollar network of time-dependent deposits, where the vast majority of the world's wealth is stashed, entirely walled off from the Real Economy of goods-services-commodities

>>512155802
>you try to steal you get shot in the face as that is a violation of the NAP
lmao this is how children think
you have no concept of deception or stategy, and that is why you'll end up on the end of a rope or slaving for someone else

>Libertarian

Stopped reading there. Libertarians just want to get away with illegal shit. Up to and including child porn and rape. Its dead.

>>512163265
Hi anon.

Correct. In the 1990s, even though Jewish families were buying up most of the businesses that were consolidating America into a corporate rather than ma and pa retail economy, white Americans still had plenty of leeway to come up with a little capital, an idea, drive, and attend marketing conferences and get rich through entrepreneurial merit (see: beanie babies).

In the 1970s, even though all ma and pa stores were selling the same corporate crap ordered from wholesale catalogues, big corporations like IBM an Kodak were still translating R&D expenses into global market share. Even 3M and Proctor and Gamble.

In the 1950s, white American founded companies like the American Shoe Company, still had institutional, near monopoly control of some industries, and white American entrepreneurs could found a literal fucking burger shack and end up creating the entire consumer economy.
Look at JW Marriot's story. He founded one shitty hotel that he bought CHEAP on the fucking banks of the Potomac next to the Pentagon after selling FUCKING HOT DOGS from a stand in DC. He bought one or two more hotels, then founded one of the first "chain" hotel companies. As late as the 50s this shit was still happening.

Capitalism has been fake and gay for a long time. Industry was very decentralized and practically structured for community equity based economics from 1900-1910. In fact, capitalism was failing and community credit unions were in position to purchase small factories and engage in a mixed money/barter style of economy. But then WWI happened and federal regulations, rationing, and war spending under Bernard Baruch consolidated industry and destroyed local factories.

After 2008 though, there is no entrepreneurial economy. You're an influencer selling a propaganda message approved from above. You're a bullshit app developer helping to build the surveillance state getting pay outs from fake bullshit financing.

>>512163492
I'm convinced that BlackRock's AI literally centrally managers the real economy.

If you pay attention to grocery prices, they clearly target consumer demand elasticity.
Any product that poor people don't buy because culturally they don't eat it, but which should be cheap, sees the price jacked up.
Meanwhile, certain junk foods which are technically discretionary, like Big Macs, but which demand for is pretty consistent, also see price jacks.
One weird aspect of the increasingly stratified economy is that they're targeting price increases to the affluent, but trying to avoid increases or as much increase on other products.
You have to shop fucking smart now.

There's an increasing class of people who can't afford shit, but the system somehow budgets a way for them to not starve and revolt, but then wherever they can fucking soak you if you do have money, they do, but without making you feel like how poor people feel about the economy. It's diabolical.
All that data science bullshit hasn't gone to waste.

>>512155014 (OP)
>Neuron activation

>>512164525
>BlackRock

Aladdin developed by Charles Hallac and Benett Golub was a central factor in the 1980s-90s Financialization of Wall Street
>https://rumble.com/v2jt8h4
https://rumblecom/v2jt8h4

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aladdin_(BlackRock)

the world's wealth today does *not* come from (nor is it even connected-related to) the Real Economy of goods-services-commodities. It's entirely walled off in a secret black box gigacasino of speculative debt instruments, most of which is run by computerized systems for benefit of the 0.0001% that could care less if the Real Economy ever existed.

>>512165279

Aladdin & BlackRock
>https://rumble.com/v2jt8h4
https://rumble.com/v2jt8h4

>>512164525
Are you still here? IF so 3 questions:
Your take on GK Chesterton's Distributism
Secondly, how does one practically get started with a project like this in this kiked nation. Do you think a company akin to mandragon could ever take off in the US (there are already several large ESOP companies operating here) and where would they get the capital?

>>512163265
This

A good film to watch for the long-term historical arc (beyond global Financialization itself) and cultural-commidifying transformation of the west is Adam Curtis' documentary 'Hypernormalisation'
>https://rumble.com/v2eeaim
https://rumble.com/v2eeaim

>>512167572
>-commidifying
-commodifying*

>>512165666
Distributism has the right idea. It's weak on execution. This is because it's conceived of as parallel to the Catholic church's preferred mode of politics: subsidiarity. The church wants weak, disconnected polities, so that it is the supreme central authority. In this vein, there is a danger to decentralization. Before he faggoted out, James Lindsey made a good point that these Christian Nationalists like Charles Haywood are promoting a WEF scheme to break up American political power into meaningless small chunks.
However, may features of what I call "commons economics" and distributism are similar.
Under my "community equity capitalism" first, local economies still have wealth inequality and markets, there's just a base layer of some commons that cooperates with the competitive layer.
Second, my system allows for an emergent competitive money economy that is weak compared to the foundation, but a central authority could receive remittances from states to create a "Union Army" to BTFO invading papists, if needed.

The Return To the Land you hear about with Aarvoll is a start, but it's too racially charged. The key is to be able to opt out, which means owning land and growing food.
However, it gets impossible really fast to do this. Any attempt to build your own even minute banking system will get fed hell rained down on you instantly.
One thing I see is the need for a groundswell of discourse, if enough people see the light and insist on this shit, it meaningfully diminishes the power of the feds to intervene. That intervention, on honest, innocent local economics will be seen as malicious.
Otherwise, I think we're pretty fucked. I'm moving overseas though, to a totally different society, and think I might be able to editorialize some of these ideas over there, though.

>>512167572
ty

I guess this post is over most people's heads. That one libertard crashed out and ran.

This is probably the most important, relevant topic on the board more important than any other issue getting to the heart of it all. If everyone could see the light on it, we might get somewhere.
Alas, this country is FUCKED and no one will save it with their voting Trump bullshit.

>>512168705
Agreed that this overall topic is of high importance.
Anons need to understand what money is and how it is created (refer to documentaries posted ^^^upthread), as well as post-1970s Financialization of the global economy: which is the entire reason for our present 2025 predicament(s)
additionally, search archive.4plebs for central bank topic threads

>>512169045
A year ago I saw a libertarian defend immigration saying it's a private contract between a business owner and an employee. He said "creating value for the economy" so many times.
I finally realized that the entire free market argument has no traction anymore. It's meaningless.

Everything people bitch about
>just withdraw from society, make your money, have peace
>loser incel who can't even make money
>just build something, stop engaging in voting and build something, invest in something, create value, create a business.

I'm like, bruh, you fuckwits don't realize the entire economy is fake? You're still playing that game?

>>512169245
>entire free market argument
Yes this is why it's pointless to get into intellectual, or ideological, purity spirals.
Our current post-1970s global condition is caused by central banks and the top echelons of HNW capital accumulation, that are effectively imprisoning 99 percent of Earth's population in an economic simulacrum while they harvest all the gains. (It's quite analogous to the original 1999 'The Matrix' in more than one aspect)

>>512169866
I'd modify that to them having to expand the size of the elite class the more agitated the lower classes become, so there's a stronger social bulwhark.
I don't think it's all accumulating at the very top. What the hell can they do with all that money?

>>512169866
>>512170051
But I'll add that you can't expand the lower elites and enrich them unless the upper elites are proportionally enriched as well.

In the government bureaucracy, military and federal employee pay is scheduled so the President is paid the most.
An Army private can't have a salary increase unless the President's salary is increased.

I think it's like that.

>>512168705
What's your point retard?
Liberty is the best economic system and you haven't made any arguments against it.

>>512169866
Correct, inflation is the biggest tax now, all caused by central banking.

>>512155028
Oh i should have read your first post.
>You're Jewish therefore you're bad!
Ok buddy the chicken tenders are ready when you want to come back to logic.

>>512170051
>what the hell can they do with all that money
Yeah I see what you're saying anon (upper v. lower), but that's what Financialization is all about.
Creating a synthetic world in which the top 0.0001 can exist without ever having to 1) even deal with the mass populace overall, and 2) a 'fountain of youth' supplied and enforced by central banks from which they derive their existence and sustenance entirely separated from and unbothered by economic cycles within the goods-services-commodities Real Economy

There's no more 'agitation of the masses' Marx-wise, that's been killed after the 1980s and especially after 2008 when 'capitalism' in totality has. The working class and middle/mid-upper class masses are imprisoned in their hourly wage-salary-index fund/401K simulacrum. Nobody at Larry Fink's tier is either affected by or gaf if that stuff even exists, none of them do.

>>512170493
>when 'capitalism' in totality has
vanished.

>>512170260
Liberty isn't an economic system dipshit.
When was there a "liberty" economic system?

>>512170453
I never argued You = Jewish, Jewish = bad -> you = bad.
Your logic sucks ass if you're claiming I argued that.

>>512170349
Read and view documentaries posted ^^^ upthread

>>512170349
Inflation isn't a tax, it's our fucking economic system dumbass. Wealth itself is now a tax from the poor to the rich, not to the state, to the rich.

>>512170708
What did you mean by this you lying statist retard?
>Lockean capitalist wealth is Jewish AF, and has no moral basis.

>>512170754
the anarcho-memeflag mentioned 'tax' because he's still trapped in the Austria-analysis paradigm
needs to break beyond that to comprehend global post-1970s Financialization

>>512155014 (OP)
>>512155028
>>512155055
I was curious what those "money was invented by blood feuds" videos on my youtube feed were about. Not curious enough to click them but a little.

>>512170672
So you don't even understand basic libertarianism, it's all based on the NAP, a free society or a free market is simply one with liberty, which we define as one without organized aggression, government markets are with organized aggression.

You have no idea what you're talking about like all statists, and like all statists you make NO attempt to understand the other side of the argument cause you're all a bunch of arrogant, lying violent thieves.

>>512170838
>Muuuuh Austria-analysis paradigm buzzword soup
SO ARGUE AGAINST AUSTRIANISM THEN YOU STUPID KEYNESIAN BASTARD.

>>512170968
Same lol, regardless money is simply a unit of value used as a medium of exchange.

>>512155014 (OP)
That's not how kimonos work.

>>512170754
So if i own a tomato thats a tax, you're a fucking moron. Just be honest, you want to steal.

>>512155055
>Private wealth is not "property" and it's not just under entrepreneurial merit. It's a privilege the state extends to oligarchs
>in turn the oligarchs provide unified support to the state.
Or, perhaps the oligarchs see the state as a cost effective way to protect their wealth, if there was a cheaper way, then the oligarchs would us that instead.... or perhaps the biggest threat to wealth holders is the state itself, so oligarchs try to be on the good side of it.

In any case, you make the point that no one could accumulate an excessive capital surplus if it were not for the state. Well, the perpetual increase of the money supply ensures that asset prices out strip wage prices. But if we had flat money supply, people could still accumulate wealth, there just wouldn't be the same distortions. Yes, people could voluntary invest in common enterprise (such as corporations), but there wouldn't need to be a single common store of wealth that everyone would need to contribute to, that would just be communism.

QUIZ FOR ANCAPS AND LOLBERTS

How would you stop a sit down strike without the perception of legitimate state violence from the police?
>They violated the friggin' NAP! I'll just hire goons!
The problem with goons are that they're a contradiction. In order to defeat striking workers with goons they need to
A: Be a stronger force than the workers or else they'll just be repelled. You can't have more goons than workers, they're a pure drain on your finances for no direct productive output, so they're always going to be outnumbered
B: Goons need BETTER PAY than the workers were getting otherwise why would they do what you say?
C: Even if the goons are strong enough to beat off the strike, what's stopping them from just keeping your shit they just took back for you? They're the goons. They have the guns. What's lil capitalcuck gon do about it? Hire different goons? With what wealth?

You're useless. Nobody needs you to own capital for them. Everything you have is produced by workers and defended by goons. The sad thing is this is all purely hypothetical for you. You don't even own private capital, you just simp for the people who do for free out of a delusional fantasy of individualist yeoman "freedom" that is being eaten alive by the very capital class you simp for.

>>512171332
So many socialist fucking morons get this wrong it's infuriating. THE STATE IS THE OLIGARCHY. THE STATE IS THE OLIGARCHY. THE STATE IS THE OLIGARCHY. They are the same fucking entity.

>>512171384
>How would you stop a sit down strike without the perception of legitimate state violence from the police?
I wouldn't? Retard? Unless your trespassing on my property.

The statists have literally no replies when their assumptions get even the slightest challenge, I can't even believe it, you people should have no say in anyones life but your own let alone telling the whole of society what to do via threats of violence.

>>512171526
>He doesn't even know what a sit down strike is
See this is why you'll never own capital, you don't even know the basics!

>>512171738
If by "sit down strike" you literally mean trespassing on my property then yes you will be removed.

>>512171113
>memeflag sperg 11 pbtid
Lol, (You) need to *study* what I've posted upthread.

(no I dgaf about "muh keynes" hurr durr and it's far far removed from what exists today)

>>512171821
And you didn't answer my questions.

>>512171937
I just answered what i'd do if you were trespassing on my property, you'd be removed.
It is immoral to trespass on someones property, and no society can be run sanely that way.
You're asking me how i would remove the trespassers?

>>512171875
>lol i wont give any arguments you need to STUDY my retarded non evidenced bullshit pile of steaming trash
Nah. Make an argument or shut the fuck up statist.

>>512155055
>Where capital is owned by community groups, for the benefit of the community, where covenants manage the divide between how that wealth is spent on the commons versus being retained for private exchange by households.
Anon discovers S-Corp dividend strategies

>>512172082
By goons? I addressed that.
>>512171384

>>512155014 (OP)
Jesus, anon did buy a 4chan pass..

>>512172151
>memeflag 14 pbtid "statist"
kek, jfc I'm more anti-statist than (You). Stfu study the materials posted ^^^upthread

Anonymous (ID: pI+ZPUGo) memeflag 14 pbtid
is evidently directed to this topic to disrupt and disinform any reasoned discussion

>>512172372
>no i wont make an argument just study my pile of bullshit
Again, no. I won't reply to another of your non-arguments.
>>512172486
>Ad-hominem.
You lost.

>>512155014 (OP)
yes i agree with private wealth being a lie because i deserve the same % of everything like everybody else.
if this wont be happening in my lifetime i will be assured that everyone on earth is a slave. there is no society, no connection, no brotherhood.

only slavery into the abyss with a bunch of niggers as after taste.

no, when i worked 14 hours yesterday i deserve as much money, gibs, whores and drugs like bill gates too. he does not deserve a single cent more than me and this is why im a problem for the system and everyone.

because youre all slaves and love to be slaves. youre psychopathic dictators will just murder you and turn your life into hell when you become me.

so better not do it. this is only for tough men and youre all not really tough.

youre sitting at the lunch table and gill bates together with schmelon katursk eat the entire set of steaks all on their own. now they claim that plebs like me are only allowed to eat the crumbs that are left.

why are you not tollerating this in your home but you tollerate this in your country?
why are things meaningless when they dont affect you or are not near you?

its probably the same answer because people can not solve high iq spatial tests - theyre fucking retards.

>>512172191
With respect to your goons thing, how it usually works is that an equilibrium is established, if nobody works, everybody starves, including the individuals, so people will not strike indefinitely, but they won't work non-stop either, so a relationship is established in equilibrium between the worker and the boss.

I have no idea what you're talking about with your paying your goons thing, you can already hire private security, what you pay them is a calculation you make.

None of this has anything to do with Libertarianism.

you can stick your fucking UBI up your asses, idiots. you think im stupid or something. you still own all the land and your mansions and castles but you reset everything to 0? while you still own everything? thats fucking hilarious you bastards!
this is double rigging!

>lust provoking image
>Actually thought provoking content
Fuck OP, what a twist.
Anyway if you're still here, do you have any literature to recommend? Also tripfags are mocked because they are usually anime-sick AGP trannies, but you should start using one when making quality posts so I don't miss out on them.

Furthermore, do you think a society based on commons can be possible by sufficiently lowering the GINI index to a point, or is there a hard requirement to excise the perpetual debt issuance to eliminate the game theory advantage of capital accumulation?

>>512172910
very nice load of world salad mister german statist, your statist schizophrenia has advanced quite nicely, soon you'll be talking about FREE MONEY the government gives you and how we all just need 2 weeks to stop the spread, what a good thieving slave you are.

>>512172617
>memeflag 16 pbtid Disinformationalist sperg
(You) are the one claiming-putting forth "argument"
All it does is disrupt the reasoned discussion occurring prior to (You)r arrival here

>>512173271
What thought does it provoke? I'll wait retard.

Memeflags are *always* Israel IPs or non-Israel IPs under payroll contract to the state of Israel

when you loot a country with 100 million gallons of oil, i get the same % from the sales, like everybody else.
you dont take all of this and steal it from us, no no no. this is not what you will do in the future.

you will be a good jew, seth will make sure of that.

>>512173160
The problem is you are pretty stupid, you think stealing is good, so they can do whatever they want to you.

you decide to murder a bunch of 50.000 people for more oil? thats horrible but i will still get my % from all the sale, like everybody else.

it was a team effort, was it not? just me being peaceful sitting here is enough to claim my %. trust me on that one.

I NEVER HEARD ONE SINGLE PERSON EVER in 40 years sharing my views. youre all trained slaves. youre absolute slaves. youre all lost.

>>512173365
When I reveal my non-Israeli flag you'll just call me a Jew anyway, fuck off dishonest liar statist..

>>512155014 (OP)
Name or code???

>>512173332
I used thought provoking because it fits the meme, anyway OP did his homework, and makes good points.

Particularly, how he lays out the underlying game theory which leaves few counters from an anarcho-lib advocate.

when you loot something everyone gets an equal share. this is how it fucking works, retards.

either you start being men or you shut the fuck up. im sick of reading slave rhetoric.

All of the statists have shit themselves, they thought they were in their socialist safespace, now they are all silent because they cant even take the slightest debate or their ideas fall apart totally.

>>512155014 (OP)
Making other people subservient to you is how wealth is created.

when you dumb fucks are so eager to beat the jews, why are you playing by their rules? this is very stupid!

>>512155014 (OP)
>>512155028
>>512155055
>>512156064
>rich walls of double spaced text parroting marxist academia bla bla bla
Yup, without a doubt a progreditor in sight

>>512173543
>memeflag 21 pbtid Disinformationalist

>>512173581
Good framing the problem is you don't have a painting. You are an empty minded statist. If i was a satanist i could put any idea in your head that i want, did you believe in COVID? Or do you still believe in it? I could literally make you believe that poison is good for you. Because you NEVER think for yourself.

also, kek at the amount of anarcho-capitalist flags itt

>>512173769
Based ancapbro, keep hounding these statist devils.

>>512173669
socialism is not socialism on earth not everyone gets equal shares. the socialism we will have is everybody is poor and the elite is rich.

capitalism is the same fucking thing. its no difference. YOU LIVE IN COMMUNISM YOU IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

there are only rich people and poor people!
there is no equal distribution of wealth its all funneled into a small elite.
jews are constantly fucking over their own, do you even understand how insane it is to be jewish???

>>512173794
I'm literally a voluntarist, do you even know what that means retard? You can't steal, you can't murder, you can't ban private property, without consequences.

You know the thread is good when shills start deploying the schizo babble tactic.

>>512173900
Yeah we live in socialism and have a very destroyed free market.

its a tiny club of maniacs that squeeze out the entire world and most jews never see any of it, ever.

>>512173985
You didn't make any arguments so don't complain when you don't get one back, moron.

>>512174045
free market all bullshit, literally 10 corps own every other corps, literally 200 corps under one big corp.
>tesla sponsored by your tax dollars
>its a free market bros
>lets bail out this and that
none of you possesses the intelligence to see how fucked we really are.

tell these bullshit stories to the stupid goylems, im not interested.

>>512173969
>memeflag schizo Disinformationalist 26 pbtid
>'literally'
Back to plebbit, brainlet.
Have mommy cook a hot pocket for (You) prior to bed

>>512174133
I said we don't have a free market moron, government giving tax money to a company and the company doing it's bidding is corporate socialism.

>>512173985
This.

>>512174405
>OMG he used the world literally! that means he's literally a redditor! i'm literally shaking and crying and shitting right now
Stay assmad retard statist. Literally.

>>512174453
THIS IS NOT SOCIALISM!

SOCIALISM IS EQUAL SHARE FOR EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

loot 100 million gallons of oil, everybody gets % of the sales directly to their bank account.
i dont see why the next "elitist" is better than me, i really dont. nope they arent.

>>512174453
its all just slavery with a stupid name on it.

do whatever, kill all the goylems kill me with them, summon ra, seth and all demons in existence. i dont give a fuck.

your society is shit!

>>512174516
>memeflag 28 pbtid Disinformationalist babblespew
tell the Tel Aviv coders to re-program the GPT

ALL THIS EFFORT GOING THROUGH ALL THESE LENGTHS JUST TO CREATE A TOTAL PIECE OF SHIT!!!!!!!!!!

GUESS THATS YOU MAGNUM OPUS, RETARDS!

>>512174606
>SOCIALISM IS EQUAL SHARE FOR EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah and government is full of happy fluffy rainbows, what are you a chimp?

>>512174655
Yeah you're right income taxation is literal slavery.

i know the creation of ra is more important than anything. i know, but still youre playing the worldly game so can i!

My pp was made to impregnate Asian women.

>>512173132
>so a relationship is established in equilibrium between the worker and the boss.
The point is to get rid of the boss. At least as private owner of the workplace. They don't need the boss. The boss just owns capital. No one needs the boss to own capital for them. The boss however, needs the workers to work.

>>512173900
>The socialism we will have is everybody is poor and the elite is rich.
A.K.A Progressivism
>>512173985
>free thought in sight q-quick deploy projecting tactics!!!
>>512174478
>>512174792
>not agreeing with marxism is disinformation

>>512175117
If you don't need a boss then peacefully make your own company without a boss.
>B-but that's too hard i need to steal his shit!
Then you're full of bullshit and you just want to steal, just be honest, it would be more respectable.

>>512172910
progress and civilization ar eliterally caused by taking surplus values from workers.

most philosophers who invented everything you use and like did so precisely becaus ethry wernt working in a field and no one pays you to thinkabout random stuff. you would spend everything on whores and if you really wanted money youd be a billionaire, also they could hire someone else and unless you cap all prices for eternity like a commie they would eventually rais eprices and your buying power wouldnt change. even if they locked the price of food, the whores would increa etheir price and oF would increas ethe sub, then what cap the price of illegal whores lol?

do all the immigrants really nee dto tkae the money from richer white people? i dont fucking think so. as long as the country isnt fully white no collective policy is possible or practicable. the biggest issue in society financially speaking isnt money. its unregulated shit like real estate, the gov throwing all tax money in a black hole, the jews printing money for middle east wars and after that, much before money, = working time. people work too much. and not well enough too, everyone is retarded and mentally ill because incompetent and or evil jew governments

>>512176902
>progress
what youre seeing since 100 years is constant regress back into the fucking stoneage.

the rest is guessing.

>>512177413
without surplus value taken form workers you dleegate investment swork to 70IQ teethless immigrants or obese mutt whtie trash, which they wont ivnest caus ethey ll spend it into capitalism offering them the dumbest bullshit ever like video game cosmetics

>>512177573
Money will flow and accumulate with people who produce excess wealth and if they invest it wisely (such as into businesses that provide goods and services that people, voluntarily, purchase) then their wealth will accumulate further. So no, taking surplus value from workers isn't necessary, they inevitably spend or save the money and in the long run it accumulates with investors who know how to put it to best use.

>>512177902
>if they invest it wisely
big if true

does it semm to you that people are investing their extra money wisely right now?

>>512177997
>does it semm to you that people are investing their extra money wisely right now?
That's malinvestment due to price distortion which results from continual expansion of the money supply, the Cantillon Effect, etc. In other words, government policy.

>>512177902
>they invest it wisely (such as into businesses that provide goods and services that people, voluntarily, purchase) then their wealth will accumulate further. So no, taking surplus value from workers isn't necessary,
investing nowadays means you're selling to the hordes of NPCs allowing their superiors to steal 30% of their paycheck and shove it right into the market, and speculate on 1100% of their paycheck and take 3000% debt collateral on their paycheck and have you zeroed out 80 years before you were born
what did you do to deserve that money other than scam others by using the chaotic sacrificial system? monkey trained to press a button and food comes out rather than living in the divine world

>>512177902
>>512178158
the Real Economy of goods-services-commodities is totally segregated from the Financialized speculative debt instrument casino of HNW asset controllers
See posts ^^^^^upthread

>>512178137
so you think people can invest their own money better than the state or banks? better even than the state? you may be right im just asking. cause business and investing takes some time and thinking and maybe some peopel just dont have the time for that after work?

>>512178158
>monkey trained to press a button and food comes out rather than living in the divine world
Don't worry about what other people are doing. The "divine world" that you seek is experienced within.

>Matthew 6:33
>But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

>Luke 17:21
>Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

>>512178137
>>512178373
>malinvestment
Is what the entire post-1970s Financialized global economy is all about.
'capital' or what it ever represented, doesn't even matter. Only making money off of money : >>512163265

>>512178373
I'm saying, imagine a poor person who can't afford to save anything. So they spend their money on products and services. Some of the companies selling these products and services are profitable and they invest their money. They may invest their money in improving efficiency, which allows them to sell their products and services cheaper, they may invest their money in R&D for new products, or they may pay out a dividend to shareholders in the company, who can then decide what they will invest the money in. So, there's no need to forcibly take money from everyone in an elitist manner, saying that we know better than them how to invest it, because the money will eventually flow to someone who does invest it wisely.

>>512178497
>Is what the entire post-1970s Financialized global economy is all about
Yes, and the government keeps bailing itself out to prevent the inevitable correction. So we need the government to stop doing this, or, at least, do less of this. Less government rather than more government.

>>512178559
i think they will invest their money into whatever capitalism propagandized them into (alcohol, hores, cars, restaurants, travels etc)

>>512155280
No offense dude, OP is on layer 6 and you're still on layer 1.

>>512178624
>6 pbtid
'the government'
No, it is private central banks. Study the documentaries posted ^^^^^upthread
(govs are in debt to central banks)

And this (full interview linked):
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/511622826

>>512178711
So then they lose their chance to invest by wasting their money on consumption and the companies that provide this stuff will get the money and they will invest it. The money will accumulate in the hands of people who invest wisely. The problem is that the economy is distorted by government policy so simply speculating on financial assets is bringing a return (malinvestment).

>>512171251
Doesn’t exist without the state. Not historically accurate that it just emerged magically from human action.

>>512171328
No. If you possess wealth assets that outpace inflation, you are taxing the people whose assets are depreciated by inflation.

>>512178863
It's private banks. Central banks, which are also privately owned, only step in once large banks are failing (ie people that deposited money are pulling their money out of their accounts at the same time).

>>512178863
Well, the treasury is probably going to take over the fed in the not too distant future. Anyway, the reason why central banks exist is to allow governments an infinite line of credit. It's not like governments were good and then central banking came in and corrupted them. Governments were already engaged in overreach so they needed central banking to sustain themselves.

>>512171332
There’s no economically viable “cheaper way” to protect accumulated wealth without the state or a common universal commitment by the tribe to protect each others wealth.

If you can’t apply in good earnest faith for a job (firm handshake, show up on time), and earn enough money to pay for basic expenses, then the commons are being destroyed and you have no reason to defend the wealth of others.

>>512178960
>7 pbtid
>"invest wisely"
(You) need to study the discussion and references posted in the first part of this thread
"Wise investment" has nothing to do with how the post-1970s Financialized global economy or its HNW flows operate, which is speculative debt instruments not (for mere example, in the instance of a S&P500 top manufacturer) capex improvements to its capacity or product output. the dgaf about any of that or even if the Real Economy exists. (This includes Elon Musk btw) It's all solely and *ONLY* about making money off of money

>>512171461
Yes and there’s no accumulated private wealth without the political economics of the state oligarchy, why don’t you get this?
Accumulated wealth has to be defended, that’s a labor cost.

>>512179122
>and you have no reason to defend the wealth of others.
The wealthy could pay for professional security.

>>512171701
Now you’re just slinging shit

>>512179066
>8 pbtid
(You) don't know anything.
At all

Study the references provide upthread, learn something

>>512171821
Who pays the cost of enforcing trespassing? If you can’t afford that, it’s not your “property”.

>>512179200
checked, the memeflag left the thread anon
don't bring them back with (You)s

>>512172185
Yeah actually I know of some Anglo-Saxon money that spreads it out between accounts in relatives names. And Jews do this too. It’s almost exactly what I mean except minus the oligarchic superstructure

>>512172910
You deserve the basic dignified means to earn a living or else the property “right” of others is null and void.

>>512179154
I don't really disagree, I'm just saying that investing wisely (accumulating wealth) means taking advantage of the financialised system. Someone seemed to be suggesting that we force people to pay into something that is going to invest is a "correct", non-financialised way. I'm saying that the the economic environment of financialisation distorts everything, so we need less government which will allow for correction and then investment will be more beneficial to the ordinary person, not established asset holders and the politically connected as it is currently.

>>512178960
mos tof the money is lost. moneyis manpower and the manpower was mostly for useless consumption of unnecessary garbage only made valueable through propagandizing people into seekign status by doing capital approved activities or consuming whatever drugs. if everyone is working in service dicksucking economy your progress will be heaviyl slowed. im not saying whats goign right now is good but lettign random ass fuckers decide how to allocate rthe ressource sof the entire world is literal suicide, how many people are selfish ignorant or even stupid these days. people ar enot free they minds are controlled by the state and the capital, they dont even know what they want or what is good for them.

you r ebasically advocating for financial dmeocracy but democracy only works if people are informed and not brainwashed. and they require gnees to be rather intelligent and empathetic to not destory their own society. and even then im not sure thats the best wwaybecause again investing requires a lot of time and brainpower. if we can have good and smart peoplethen id rather have a team of the msot smart, good and proffessional people with expertise do the investing instead orking for the state or whatever but again that whats happens after, not before. until thn id rather have the market do it, then regulations which means fighting for your rights

>>512179046
This.
Central banks are what enable, via collaboration with sovereign nations' treasuries, the infinite issuances of debt note fiat currency

Everyone itt needs to *watch* 'The Money Deluge'
and '97% Owned'
documentaries posted ^^^^^^^^

>>512173132
It’s when nobody works FOR YOU dipshit.

If you’ve over accumulated wealth and are jewing everyone because you always outbid people and charge shitty prices and pay your goons to knock out competition, people can just fuck up your goons and string you from a tree. And that’s not communism by the way.

>>512179366
Financial democracy can work because it is merit based (assuming the economy hasn't been distorted). Whereas, giving everyone a vote, even those who have no job, is a mob rule situation that leads to the welfare state, which requires perpetual deficits, which requires financial repression, which creates the cantillon effect, distorts the economy and leads to malinvestment.

>>512179357
>10 pbtid
Anon, it has nothing to do with 'government',
the governments themselves are 1) enabling the vast issuance of debt note fiat currencies by central banks *enabled by* their sovereign treasuries, aka Monetary policy, and 2) continuing to expand the gigabubble of gov spending (with money they don't have that is "printed" in step 1) ) in their Fiscal policy, while additionally 3) doing 1) and 2) not with the expectation that they will ever repay but rather with the expectation that they will refinance.

(You) don't comprehend or understand what you're posting

>>512173271
My view of that is that with “free money” which is sort of an imaginary concept that takes libertarian money theory seriously, but let’s imagine commons capitalism creates free denominations of exchange that compete. It works like this:

Money stores wealth AND facilitates exchange. The effect is to tie consumption to deferred consumption - investment - to give it a price. If people manipulate money to hoard gold (happened in late 1800s USA) then there isn’t enough medium to exchange and commoners will swap to silver or something else, reducing gold’s value as a store of wealth.

So in a theoretical free market, over accumulation of capital should lower the wealth store value of it.

I suspect a Pareto ratio would emerge. 20% of people hold 80% of the wealth. Beyond that, and a currency will likely lose value to others.

So yes, properly value sensitive capital shouldn’t exceed a 80-20 concentration of wealth on the gini

>>512179522
>11 pbtid
checked,
Wrong.
(the Cantillon effect is merely that of *all* HNW and asset-aggregated entites, including large governments but also of course hedge funds, banks, corporations that have 'first dib' access to the new creation of central bank/treasury money supply QE.... a recent example in 2020 would be the PPP loans)

>'malinvestement'
It's time for (You) to stop posting.
that's what Financialization is all about.
Watch the film '97% Owned' ^^^^^^^^ and learn something

>>512179522
the welfare state is good. people who dont work ar ethe buffer to keep the state in check from itself. if everyone is an ignorant faggot at work your coutnry will dgeneerate under decadence as the citizens are powerless and even the state actors will suffer from living in africa. they re basically rich peopl who ar epaid less; this is good if you dont have too much people doign it and if thy re whity white, educated and smart in anenlightened society especially when you need new ways to think and act, the state knows many who create businesses do it after a period of welfare. the problem is infintie browns suckin that shit on purpose and massively. many people who work ar ebigger nets drians on the state economy directly and indirectly + there ar enot always good jobs to create that ar eactually useful, you would only give them more money while they actually provide less value (too hard to conceptualize for a schoolboy, not saying thatyou are one)

>>512179625
>“free money”
covered in the short documentary 'The Money Deluge' ^^^^^^^^ upthread
a must watch for everyone itt

All the money after the 1990s goes straight into the investment banks'/hedge funds black box gigacasino. That's what caused the Aug-Sept 2019 overnight repo collapse, which is the global economic collapse *we're still in* rn Aug 2025

the bigge rproblem ar ebullshit jobs whose sole purpôse is to keep citizens under control. dont you talk hsit about welfare ever again. many philosophers who buitl civilizatiosn were NEETS

>>512170825
Rothbard ignores the theory of violent human action in his treatment of human action.
Wealth must be defended, which is a labor cost.
The wealth accumulated by one man can be defended by one man, since the benefit of stealing what one slightly more productive man can make compared to you just farming instead of fighting isn't worth the cost of fighting.
However, if a man accumulates the wealth that many men could produce on their own (we learn, by trading between statist powers) then he cannot with his own labor afford to defend his wealth. He needs to pay the labor costs of many men.
This involves either becoming an oligarchic warlord statist, or being in a tribe where the accumulated wealth of individuals is protected by a common commitment to the principle of the property right. In history, this latter idea depended also on the health of an economic commons that guaranteed that any man who worked could live a basically good life as any other man. The morality of being wealth falls apart otherwise, and there is no tribe to help defend your wealth.

Locke proposes that accumulating wealth is ideally good in principle, and so he mathematically extends the principle of accumulating a little wealth through a little labor, to the infinite accumulation of infinite wealth. And all good Christian Englishmen ought accept the state's role and also assist in dying to protect the wealth of rich men.
That's imaginary Jewish bullshit. As I showed, if you extend Locke's principle of wealth beyond what one man can defend with his own labor, the logic of it changes. There is no infinite accumulation of wealth outside philosophical idealism and imagination.

We tolerate the rich because we're told our property right is predicated on theirs. It's not.

>>512179400
Nobody works FOR YOU moron, you're delusional.

Anyone can just kill anyone in any system for any reason, the fact you think that's a point is midwittery.

>>512173601
If I can add the game theory of cooperative economics. If there's one dude that's a bruiser and is critical to the fight and will take out like 8/10 of the other guys, then that dude can claim 80% of the share.
The idea is he'll just walk away if you don't agree to give him 80%, but you're cool with it, because if he's involved the 20% you split up is easy pickings.
That's how cooperative economics works.
What do you have to pay members to stop them from walking? After that, is it still worth it for you to join?
That's how you determine payouts.

>>512179944
who the fuck wants to build a society based on beign a nigger?

>>512173769
Literally nothing I'm saying is in marxist literature or their bullshit esoteric theory.

>>512173707
Historically, almost universally true. However, Anglo-Saxon tribal model proposes a cooperative model for economics with merit determining the contours of inequality.
This is abused by neoliberals and going back to John Locke to rationalize oligarchic wealth.

>>512179944
You think having an army means you need to start wars, these are just very very VERY basic confusions and distortions of the mind that statists engage themselves in, at a certain point theres no point bothering replying to such illogic nonsense.
You made no coherent argument and you won't receive one.

>>512180134
You know whats abused by neoliberals? Socialism and the power of large states, not free markets, idiot.

>>512173707
>how wealth is created
It's especially rewarding when the central bank is used with a nation's sovereign treasury to create global slavery

>>512173900
This is why we need tribe and race based politics, but with Anglo-Saxon model for our own tribes. And Anglo-Saxon colonialism for the rest. However, softer touch, less direct involvement next time. Just, maintaining at least our clear sense of tribal superiority in foreign dealings.

Race is the thing they want to taboo because it's the solution to the political economic problem that capitalism and communism fail to solve. By universalizing humanity, these two philosophies just empower the already alienated, amoral, international parasite tribes.

>>512180176
free markets are abused. everything is abused. "my thing good"! moron.

>>512179575
>>512179718
Before central banking there existing "free banking", which meant that banks issued their own notes. Basically, you could have a note from a bank that said it could be redeemed for $XX dollars at that bank, and you could take it to a branch of a different bank and they would also normally redeem it at the same value. But if a particular bank seemed to be in trouble, then the other banks would start redeeming at a discount, like they'd only pay 90% of the face value because they thought there was a risk with the issuing bank. So when this reached a certain point, everyone would rush to remove their money from the banks that were risky and put their money into banks that were well capitalised. This put the risky bank under enormous pressure and usually meant it would fail and depositors would end up getting a few cents on the dollar or nothing. This is a good thing for the economy because when banks fail the financialisation they were creating was wound back. Only banks with low leverage could survive in the long term, which limited financialisation. The reason we got rid of free banking is because governments need to continually borrow in order to finance their perpetual deficits, so they don't like it when banks fail because then they can't borrow from them. So governments needed central banking. It's not the other way around. As for the "97% owned" film, I might check it out, but the fact that private banks create money through loans isn't the problem, the problem is they can do so perpetually due to the central bank, which means the financialisation never gets unwound. But it's important to remember, governments are the ones who want this state of affairs because they want perpetual deficits, because they rely on overreach.

>>512173969
Enforcing private property because some Jew hoarding gold bought a "title deed" to land they never visited is violence, dumbass.

In any event, in a true free market with no central bank, no national debt, no government currency, it wouldn't be possible for some New York Jew to buy land in Texas. It would literally not be possible.
This is what ancaps miss.
Private property doesn't exist without the state. So you choose either oligarchy, bureaucracy or a commons based balanced system.

>>512155637
This is like an angstrom away from National Socialism.

>>512180074
Literally all statists. Fascists, socialists, communists, neoliberals, neocons all want a society based on the initiation of violence for purely selfish motives, most are useful idiots.

Minarchists and Anarchists are the only honest agents, take a look around, everyones full of shit, mental gymnastics, trying to convince you that theft, murder and violence is good.

>>512180254
dont play games you cant win

>>512174949
You're not even responding to the content of the thread. You're just responding to the meme and regurgitating discourse. You're like a woman, who can't engage with novel content and can only absorb and parrot talking points. You're having an argument with a point of view that's not even here right now.

>>512180364
not statists means you re a hippie unless you wan to make a worldly terrorist organization lol jewish soldiers without border or some shit hoping thy wouldnt infiltrate it and scheme to take over shit

state means notihng is just an organization of power; good can only win if it tries and dominates evil. not by syaing shit like "statist"

>>512180277
You're right, everything is abused, but i think my thing is better, at least with my thing you can choose even if you get manipulated, under their thing you get manipulated and threatened and aggressed against.

>>512155014 (OP)
Why are you attempting to rehash decades old arguments? Lolbertism is doomed to failure for the simple reason that it requires literally infinite resources to operate fairly for everyone. Old fucking news. Everyone here should already know that ethno NatSoc is the only viable long term economic and political system. Period. Full stop.
If you disagree, please leave, I don't want to argue with you about how your stupid fucking opinions are valid or whatever. You can come back when you've come to the realization that I am correct.

>>512175117
The point is the "boss" is only the boss because he has access to capital and you don't.
That's not inherently bad, but wealth debt capitalism removes all the justice from how capital is accumulated.
By definition, loss is socialized, gains are privatized.

We could have a model where workers invest. They work without wages until the investment is done, and then are paid a handsome bonus of the result.
This is sort of how some startups work.

Debt Capitalism can't function this way. Workers can't have any bargaining advantage or costs can't be rationalized, and investment planning that "keeps up" with competition for capital against the interest rate debt treadmill is impossible.

I really wish more people understood the economics here.
Worker bargaining power has to be destroyed for costs to be rationalized, which is necessary for investment planning in a debt based capital market. Get what I'm saying?
In other circumstances, there's no reason why workers shouldn't have more bargaining power.

>>512180438
Bro i've given you like 5 arguments and you've responded to none of them apart from this retard ad-hom you just gave me shut the fuck up already you're a giant pseud.

>>512155014 (OP)
I saw this post several hours ago and avoided it after seeing OP reply 10 times with a novel of mental masturbation that will have no impact on anyone or anything. Now I come back and see this asshole has 50 fucking posts. Did you just watch Good Will Hunting and were inspired to give us a dissertation on the southern colonies agrarian economy modalities?

>Lolbertism is doomed to failure for the simple reason that it requires literally infinite resources to operate fairly for everyone.
What the fuck are you even talking about? You just talk and words fall out don't they, you have absolutely zero idea what any of the shit you're saying is.

>>512180514
I will keep saying statist, the state is the organized initiation of violence. Violence need not be initiated.

>>512180533
you think the "fre market" wouldnt trheaten you liek the state does lol? there is no escape out of fighting. you will fight against evil or will be submitted by it. its about people. evil will fuck you using any system, they want power over you, they dotn care the way they do it. communism or capitalism state or free markets, its just the sauce to eat you nigga. become a demonslaying paladin or become a slave

>>512180686
Lol. Do you honestly expect people to take you seriously, kike?

>>512180649
KEK, this whole thread is mental masturbation, and it's not even fun, nobody provides any arguments its just a bunch of pseuds writing lines of text and never fucking responding to anything. Infuriating.

>>512176902
At times, yes. But at other times there were other ways.
Modern technology affords the best path out of exploitation as a necessary prerequisite to progress.
It's not about wealth redistribution of state welfare programs. Just a more sophisticated financial system, better more dynamic development of human capital, more dynamic logistics and capital, more decentralized, distributed wealth.

We can shift from a cost cutting economy to a value adding economy.
If your community owns a stake in your car, you can buy a high quality built-to-last $200k car that will last 60 years, where the community helps cover maintenance costs through a maintenance mutual or club.

Global scale industry. Computer technology means that the idea of a small community being able to design simple car engines and build an investment alliance to produce these engines at scale isn't out of the question. The scale economic of the industrial revolution chasing cost-cutting isn't necessary.

They literally made cars break down after 5 years to keep their cost-cutting mode of competition going. Value discovery in capitalism doesn't have to be structured that way.

>>512180746
it will be initiated whether you want it or not. you live in retard world and someone will alwaysbe more retarded than you

>>512155014 (OP)
You literally have multiple branches in Austrian Economics, Chicago Economics and Virginia Economics.

Molinarians, Rothbardians and Hoppeans and Krokinians are literally Anarchists who sabotaged Austrian Economics.

Misesians, Hayekians, Lachmannians all hated them.

>>512180834
More word salad please schizo retard, more meaningless rhetoric i love it.

>>512180836
Do you do it for free? Not very libertarian of you.

>>512180810
It is evil to initiate violence.

>>512180836
Do we know for sure this is human? Or is this some guy in Skunk Works trying out their new AI model?

>>512177573
Too marxist here.

Entrepreneurial profits exist, but only in times of market growth. At market maturity, wage structures reflecting periods of growth do tend to take "surplus value".
This is not labor theory of value, but the value of labor when growth is hot versus the equilibrium value of labor when it cools off.
Mature industry labor becomes an externality that supports "hot" labor and profitability, but which deflation resistant cost structures leech.

We see this in America. We import illegal immigrants because our amazing rich Wall Street has made being a janitor or day care worker unaffordable. That's an imbalanced economy, and a sure sign of actual surplus value being stolen from labor. It's a sign asset valuations and the cost of capital MUST go down. If the basic utility labor to support you industry becomes unaffordable, you've leeched too much wealth from labor.

This is why that want immigrants and robots by the way.

>>512180904
Maybe I'm schizo. Maybe, by some metrics at least, I'm retarded.
I've noticed that you've decided to attack me, instead of my arguments. Interesting. Wouldn't you say?
I haven't even read all 50 of your posts in this thread, but I stand by my earlier statement. Do you honestly expect people to take you seriously when you're so obviously a paid shill?

>>512180912
How dare you paint me with the most annoying libertarian stereotype, i donated a billion dollars to charity just last month. The charity just happened to be for profit.

>>512177902
Entrepreneurial merit only applies in periods of growth. Otherwise it is just exploitation by successful pseudo-monopolists.
There's next to no entrepreneurial merit in today's economy. It's wasting money on shitty movies made by nepo babies, then hiring Indians to thought police and troll people who complain about it, funded by Chinese and Vietnamese slave labor.

>512181031
No more (((you)))s for you, nigger.

>>512178624
It's too late. There's no stopping it. It's totally converted over. Supply chains would collapse if the BlackRock and BIS asset management computers shut down.
We either go Mad Max, or do a little corrective socialism.

>>512180965
No, dead internet is becoming realer by the day, i don't want to get swamp gassed but check out some of the profile pictures on youtube comments, they look real until you look at them for a while, and then you realize it's AI, there's something scary about it. OP could be real, but nowadays he could be AI, even I could be AI to you, it's crazy.

>>512178624
Like, there aren't bail out"s" anymore. Our system is now a permanent bail out machine.
Any money made in the past 20 years is de facto illegitimate.
>but I worked hard
so did the poor chinese factory workers and they aren't rich, stop believing in labor theory of value
There's no entrepreneurial merit, so any wealth anyone has at this point is illegitimate.
Everyone who has maintained legacy wealth has converted it over into the new shitty system to maintain it.
This is because PRIVATE WEALTH IS A LIE. All privately accumulated wealth is a privilege extended by the state and its financial systems.
This current one is completely divorced from the real economy, so there are no merit based claims anymore.

>>512179066
Lol, no.
JPMorgan and Palantir and Oracle and BlackRock will take over the Treasury and the Fed will be made irrelevant.

>>512181016
You're a lizard mossad agent from the planet venus, see? i can do it too.

>>512179194
That's called an oligarchy dumbass. See: The City of Uruk.

>512181272
Eat dick glowie.

>>512179357
There's no underlying "actually real and economically just" economy that will appear if we just peel back government. The government (global state system) has already taken over the entire economy.
So many fucking dipshit normies don't get this.

>>512180840
cars must meet many standards and your small community building a ca ris absolutely out of the quesiton also planned obsolescence is another topic unrelate to taking surplus value froml workers beyond workjers caring about the car for some reason and benefitting form the ca rnot breakign down? wouldnt it be easier to make some kind of indicator about the longevity of a car about certaisn pieces what can fail expected longevity etc? any money waste din planne dobsolescence isnt spent on better things that could be accomplished through better allocated manpowert which would benefit the ceo raking the money much more than short term profits at the scale of society

people just seek radical ideas out of desperation or something. regressing technpology just to make small guys do things. think big. fucking take over the board of directors and ceo position and make ur long lasting cars policy bro, quite beign afraid. think also to review the idea that companies ar esuppose to make money for shareholders at all costs which is a commie law btw. if they dont like it they shoudl sell the shares

>>512180176
Our financial system doesn't exist outside of what we have now. If it collapses, no one has wealth anymore. No, your fucking gold coins and ARs will not be redeemable in an "economy" unless a new state power emerges that collects gold as tax.

>>512180354
Yeah but no, central banking and conscripted labor is not what I'm talking about. Hitler in the end said Stalin perfected the economic model he had been going for.

However, if you meant what I'm describing is sort of the ideal of fascism, that's sort of true.

>>512180379
So you're the nigger after all.

>>512181377
You'd only need one or two global standards agencies to evaluate the quality of a car. Plus, a community that buys one will develop the human capital to modify and repair it if necessary.
Finally, my entire point with technology is we have much greater ability to build with precision at the hands of more amateur craftsmen. Expert crafted parts can shop out and ship to the world from a few communities of highly skilled machinists.

>>512180364
This is just copypasta at this point. Maybe a shitty AI with minimalist training database?
Are we at the point of shifting from a slide strategy into bump into oblivion?

>>512180649
If only you weren't a subtard midwit you might be able to understand basic economic reasoning without thinking it's Hollywood's image of a sperg.

Back to the slide strategy then.

>>512181578
says the uy advocating for colonialism and imperialism and calling people niggers when they trheaten to fuckin defend themselves

>>512181665
if it s easier for small communities its easier for corps, a corp could do your car for half the price. maybe ther eis room if comps dotn want to hur ttheir perceive dinterest like cars thatlast longer especially for a small amoutn of people which they wouldnt care about unless it spreads. also the state will regulate in a way that you ll need certain things that may only be availabl through big corps that may refuse to sell to you + taking money from workers doens tprevent anyone from doing what you re syaing right now

>>512182014
Not imperialism, just classical diplomacy where you engage with other races and nations on your moral terms not theirs. Our morality would not support invading and looting them.

>>512182014
But corps can't exist economically without cost-cutting driven competition, or niche luxury cars for the wealth classes.

Break the need for competition over debt capital, and producers of cars will have to add value and provide quality. This in turn will cost more, but if the quality is high enough and a community can maintain and exercise good stewardship over its assets, then an expensive 50 year car is not out of the question.

>>512180927
>It is evil to initiate violence.
"Evil" has no power.
Violence is the only law.

>>512181480
I'll remember that when you're starving and you want to pay me some gold for a potatoe.

>>512181801
You unironically have schizotypal tier delusions, touch grass.

>>512182468
Whatever bro might is right leads nowhere, no point you even talking to me if all that matters is power, go make some money or something.

>>512182611
People will want something with more secure value than gold. There will be no sense of how much gold is in the system and prices will wildly fluctuate.
Barter economies are more effective than libertarians claim. Money doesn't emerge without state power.

>>512182352
why would debt or shareholders particularly rewards cost cutting over quality to sell stuff. whats the poitn of quality if there ar eno markers of quality, no indicator like longevity, and it mainly relies on paid propaganda and what people think, lower price is a strong factor for buyers

wouldnt a company with excess capital from going public and borrwing drown other companeis who dont through competition and claiming the market? i would agree that huge companies who are set should probably buy back share sand quit giving a single cent to hsareholders or give a shit about quarterly results and focus long term but if you dont get the advantage of initial capital boost, china will and they ll fuckup your company. only digfference is this is theoretical from zero and in real life most things are already set and have a lot of inertia so it applies less

>>512182672
Schizotypical is a relatively unknown psychological condition, and it's mostly discussed within the Jewish community because you all have it. I know this from studying the origins of Christianity and how Jews back then schizzed out all the time at everything seeing visions and shit.

>>512182468
Wrong.
You act like violence is connected to will.
Violence costs resources. It's subject to economic laws and political laws.

>>512183076
you sound like weak schoolboys who think economy is all about numbers. you think the kings didnt say the sam thing swhen they thought of banding together against france and napoleon. they thought they would crush us. not all the resource sof violence can be mathematically quantified. things like skill, heart, faith, genes, motivation, flukes, etc

>>512155280
>>512155802
>>512161205
>>512161640
>nOt ReAL Capitalism™!
dumb irrelevant lolbert spergs
>>512162888
checked and correct

>>512183587
>1 pbtid brainlet
Wrong.
"capitalism" is *OVER* after 2008
See posts upthread
What's going on 2009-2025 isn't "capitalism"

>>512183000
bret you type very fast and have a lot of ideas - how does this political philosophy of a commons capitalism or whatever you call it work in practice. i read the "car clubs" idea but like do you have any more details or how this system might emerge (besides you writing about after you move)

>>512183703
>But really, it's not Real Capitalism™!
Same argument the commies use. Capitalism inevitably becomes financial capture of institutions followed by corporate cronyism. 2008 and beyond is the inevitable result of it. Both it and Communism are materialist ideologies propagated by jews.

>>512184028
if asset bubbles, rehypothecation and onlyfans is capitalism then make me a communist i want out

>>512184167
There is thankfully a third option.

>>512184028
I never said "REAL" ****(You)**** did, brainlet.
"Capitalism' is *OVER*, finished after 2008.
READ THE POSTS UPTHREAD
(You) are either a Paid Shill or a 12-year-old, get to bed for school tomorrow.

>>512184569
>TRUE capitalism ended in 2008!!!11
Again, everything from 1913 to 1964 to 2008 is THE INEVITABLE RESULT of the judaic system of capitalism. The only functional difference between capitalism and communism is what means they took to reach the same end result: supremacy of jewish parasites.

>>512184688
checked, (You) are a brainlet. Stay off of the internet

'Capitalism' ended in 2008. 2009-2025 is something ??, but not capitalism. Capital has nothing to do with system that is nothing but a gigacasino that is totally segregated from the Real Economy of goods-services-commodities and is bailed out by trillions $$$$$$$$$$$$$ upon trillions from central banks when the speculative debt instruments go bad.
None of this occurred prior to the 1980s (when the never-in-human history speculative debt instruments were introduced)

>>512183040
kejk

>>512182762
Is that why people who have leveraged their might and blackmail networks have total and full control of society? Because might makes right leads to nowhere? You're not in touch with reality, and are completely out to lunch. You are dealing with a cult that is in complete charge of every system running underneath the sun and your response is that it's like all just gonna work out, man. Stoners should be ashamed of being associated with you. Statism is evil, but King Solomon fucked that up for the rest of us for the past 3,000 years and you're not going to change it by burying your head in the sand like an asshole.

yesterday's Debt Chaos thread >>512034547