Libertarianism claims that money is an emergent market phenomenon derived from just voluntary exchange, and that capitalist profits emerge from money when entrepreneurs create value for society, and are therefore also just.
Their entire theory is the state merely creates waste, like a parasite, and abolishing the state will allow the emergent "free market" to operate optimally.
This is all totally wrong.

Money is not in fact emergent from organic trade. Systems of barter allowed for informal, tacit arrangements where debts didn't have to be settled with precision, which is the function money provides.
The only time precise debt settlement was needed was with the weregild, the blood money to buy out of a family feud. This weregild concept was extended to pay off warlords in the form of protection money, which then became taxes.
With the introduction of the state and taxes, money finally became universally valuable. This in fact increased trade beyond the issuing state's political control, but the value of money was premised on it being redeemable for taxes at the end of the day.

Pre-money was also protection money, but more informally within local class structures, trade between distant wealthy petty chiefs.

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>>512347744 (OP)
Wealth is not moral or just under property theory. This is a lie.

Anglo-Saxon property theory divides a tribes wealth into personal estates and the commons. This is in contrast to state communism bronze age agrarianism. Even so, within Anglo-Saxon property rights, the establishment of household estate wealth depends on an interrelationship between the private estate and the commons. Men provide common defense to the Anglo-Saxons rights - a commons in itself - and the general commons of the tribe.

The issue is that wealth needs to be defended. Any wealth that exceeds what an individual man could produce with his own labor becomes the target of other men who can use their labor to steal it. You have to be able to personally defend your own wealth.
Anglo-Saxon morality combats brigandry through collective defense, but this would break down if one guy in the tribe is massively rich and enforces shitty exploitive usury or landlord fees with a permanent game theory advantage.

Lockean capitalist wealth is Jewish AF, and has no moral basis.

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>>512347751
Private wealth is not "property" and it's not just under entrepreneurial merit. It's a privilege the state extends to oligarchs - defending, establishing, enforcing their wealth - and in turn the oligarchs provide unified support to the state.
In fact, it takes national debt tied to taxation power to create the "debt treadmill" that forces the entire economy to "keep up" or lose value. Capitalism as we know it depends fundamentally on the state, and there's no anarcho-capitalist world without the state. Private wealth capitalism won't function without the state, without coercive taxation of the labor class which is made desperate for capital through a permanent game theory disadvantage.

An alternative would be something called commons or community equity capitalism. Where capital is owned by community groups, for the benefit of the community, where covenants manage the divide between how that wealth is spent on the commons versus being retained for private exchange by households.
These communities then must cooperate with each other to do investment, and risk is with the "lender" not with the borrower when it comes to investment, making capitalism slower and more conservative, but resilient to the pressure of the "debt treadmill" and ultimately more value driven.

Debt capitalism forces cost cutting. Equity capitalism forces quality improvements. All value in market economics comes from either cutting costs or improving quality.

3/3

>>512347744 (OP)
You talk like a fag and your shit is all retarded.

>>512347934
I'm right, I'm owning the Jews and go kill yourself.

Money is a creature of the State. The chartalists are correct.

>>512347951
>I'm right
I didn't read all that shit, so I don't know. I assume that shit was pasta, but if not, you're a very dumb person.

>>512348152
I wrote it and we had good conversations so I reposted.

>>512347744 (OP)
Gay and a lie, no sociaty was ever barter based above a very small clan/tribe

>>512348092
They are. It's why the notion of a free market is not correct, and so the justice of "voluntary exchange" in a system of money is a lie.

>>512348540
Except for the Scythian steppe lords. But, because they didn't have money, they didn't have writing, so they didn't record their legacy.

The point is that without the state there's no money, so the libertarian/voluntarist ethics of the market are incorrect.

It's true, all of it.

There's no such thing as "anarcho-capitalism". There's no debt-wealth capitalism without a state.

Libertarian theory is wrong because Rothbard never accounted for human violent action in his theory. Theft incurs a cost but gains a reward. Accumulated wealth must be defended at cost. This integrates into a united political economy.
There's no free market of exchange with abstract capital that can exist on mere principle.

Having capital means having a game theory advantage that lets a person wield purchasing power in the market without having to prove entrepreneurial merit. Also, not all profits are purely the result of creating value. Mature industries don't create that much new value and aren't as profitable, meaning that it's NECESSARY to establish monopoly power to stabilize and rationalize markets.
There's no such thing as debt-capital industry without a necessary progressive era of government involvement and "mixed" economics.

Not one single person with wealth in this economy has just rights to it.
Simply because of the Federal Reserve making it so that owners of capital have an advantageous access to newly created capital, which becomes inflation and increased future debt burden by the time it reaches the majority.
If you're on the "side" that is outpacing inflation, you are basically in the camp of the oligarchs that benefit from the Federal Reserve.
This is what your dumbass can't sort out when it comes to market economics.

No "voluntary exchange" can overcome the fact that ALL exchange in this market is corrupted by the Federal Reserve, whose intervention is so universal and so massive, it obliterates any kind of just or legitimate claim to wealth.

>>512347744 (OP)
Why did currency develop in multiple different societies independently?
Its because currency is an emergent phenomenon of the barter system for commodities.
Anything can be a currency.
The only requirement of a currency is that have universally recognized value, hold that value for extended periods of time, and be readily transportable.
Many things were used as currency in ancient times before precious metals.
Notably beer and other fermented beverages in the Levant, jade in Asia, and beads in the americas.
Currency is simply a representation of value.
Socialism doesn't fucking work because socialists dont understand the concept of value.
Marx's labor theory is one of the dumbest pieces of economic theory ever written.
Faggot.

>>512348656
this is true only for modern fiat currency, people used silver and gold way before modern states.

also as you said we dont know shit about the Scythian step lords, we dont know what economy they had

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5JTn7GS4oA

>>512347744 (OP)
>>512347751
>>512347775
Sou sound like a retarded brown fuckwit dribbling pseudo commie shite to be honest

>>512350086
>Why did currency develop in multiple different societies independently?
Because its easier than transporting barter goods and is more effecient.

>>512347744 (OP)
Economic libertarianism is inherently Jewish

>>512347744 (OP)
Money is jewish
Freedom is jewish
Wealth is jewish
Food is jewish

>>512347744 (OP)
I like her little belly fat

>>512350904
That's a little extreme. Jews are just satanic conspirators.

>>512347744 (OP)
i saved your same fucking thread from the other day to read over it, which i sometimes do when it looks like a good one and normally i ss the best responses to save so i can post later if the situation presents itself. but i have to say most of your posts are quite esoteric and not that substantive or maybe i am just too low iq to understand them, in that case, the onus is on OP to make their ideas coherant and substantive to low iq plebs like me to ensure a greater proliferation of ideas to the maximum number of people. since i felt that you didnt do that well enough, i didnt save any of your posts. this is me leaving you a bad review also if OP has like 50+ pbti then usually the thread is just a complete schitzo echo chamber (ur last thread had over 117+pbti) anyway, also sage

>>512350086
No. Currency began because of the state and then peripheral trading powers used it but only because, in the end, someone could redeem it for taxes.
Pseudo-money like seashells was a way for warlords to trade with each other against the labor of their serfs.

>>512350633
We actually do. Scythians and Germans buried gold in the Earth or sunk it into swamps. They didn't use it for trade. They only requested for merchants to not disturb the graves of their ancestors.

>>512350808
You're just not educated in economics and don't understand what's being said.

>>512350849
No. This was never a thing until protection money, taxes started. No one had the need to transport barter goods over large distances.

I won't deny that the state created a medium for complex economics. It's just that libertarians claim there's a state free, oligarchy, political economics, public choice free version of a free market. There isn't.

Now, if the market is subject to political economics, then if the economic conditions of a society fail to serve the basic needs of many members, then the ethical claim to property right fails.

Keep in mind, this isn't a defense of socialism and its attempts to rob from some to pay others.
This is saying that protecting and establishing the wealth of massive accumulations of wealth is a costly endeavor that society pays for to benefit the rich. We can simply say fuck that and the rich will find they can't hold onto their status as easily.

>>512351897
You have to pick a place to start.

For me, I'll pick a place.

Competition. The purpose of a market is technical and functional. It's a search function, like a computer algorithm, it's trying to figure out where value is. Value is complicated. It requires product to meet customer, a subjective process where customer ranks product against other product, where customer has purchasing power based probably or maybe on what value they produce, but also based on game theory. See? It gets complicated.

Even so, the development of technology and efficiency depends on a market to do an algorithmic search function on value. Competition is part of that function.

Competition also destroys value by creating instability. Competition creates noise that muddies the information created in the search function. It's a paradox.

The heart of economic and political theory is figuring out how to exploit consistent information signals. This is often done by cost of blood. But there are better, but complicated, other ways.

>Anonymous (ID: EwlLhPAD) OP 15 pbtid
(You) did this yesterday : >>512155014

>>512348092
Base money is created by private central banks with collaboration of sovereign treasury. Broad money is created by the national/regional private banking system
refer to yesterday's thread by $*@mmer OP >>512155014

>>512353110
Yeah it's a conversation STFU

>>512353203
Not spam

Spam is actually overpriced it's like $9 a can. Obviously, because of Korean and so forth bitch boss moms, they can market Spam with inflated prices. Other white/poor people don't by Spam anymore. It's become a luxury niche for Asian tiger moms.
BlackRock has priced Spam accordingly.

Go to the store and be shocked at what Spam costs. You'll see that the economy is fake and gay and BlackRock centrally planned.

>>512353389
>>512353466
Fuck off $*@mmer OP, everything was *ANSWERED* yesterday >>512155014