well bros, it's that time for this thread again. with the news of a Trump-Putin meeting as early as next week, and after that a Trump-Putin-Zelensky meeting, how does the war end?
the black line is the border of the 4 oblasts Russia says it needs.
>Luhansk fully in Russian control
>half of Donetsk in Russian control, with many big cities still left
>half of Zaporizhzhia in Russian control, with no real effort to take the oblast's capital
>half of Kherson in Russian control, and I highly doubt they ever cross the river
could Trump and Putin make a deal to end the war?

I mean all things conisdered thats a pretty good deal. Its not like the front has moved at all anyways. Just end the fucking war.

Also i think its pretty fair russia gets crimea they have been dicking around on that peninsula for a couple hundred years anyways

>>512410653
They were always getting that, but Ukraine can make it seem like a big concession when in reality it was always going to happen.
>>512410520
The big problem is I don't think Russia will stop unless they get all of Donetsk, I don't think they care about Zaporizhzhia and I really don't think they can even take Kherson.

>>512409842 (OP)

>>512410903
Kramatorsk and Sloviansk are the big prizes in the region and it would be a bloodbath for them. If Russia can negotiate for them in exchange for concessions to Ukraine it could be a deal.

>>512410729
Okay well there could be 3ish possibilities then:
1. The borders get drawn at the black lines and ukraine gets demiliterized and nato patrol a no gunz zone (DMZ) on the border

2. Russia and ukraine make a deal where russia cedes some of its captured territory in exchange for key regions + un dmc

3. Somehow master diplomatic negotiations are brought about and russia only gets crimea, the lil bit of kherson and donetsk and luhansk+ un dmz

4. The borders stay where the front is and is patrolled by un in a dmz ukraine demiliterized

The place i moved into happened to have this handy 1950s map of the soviet union

>>512409842 (OP)
>>512410903
>>512411054
>Russia actually wanted precisely these internal ukrainian borders
That's false. That's just a downgrade of the propaganda of Russia wanting all of Ukraine but failing. Russia started drafting a peace deal as soon as they linked up with the separatists but Ukraine refused.

Almost the entire war by now is Ukraine trying to attack the Russian lines in hopes of delegitimizing the separatism which failed miserably and only led to Ukraine being further chewed by the attrition.

>>512409842 (OP)
>Luhansk fully in Russian control
Wrong. There’s still land to (re)take. Ironically Russia had more of Luhansk 3 years ago in August 2022 than now.

>>512411435

>nato patrol

Heres a better pic... is this super outdated? Also do the town names look the same compared to what they are called now?

>>512409842 (OP)
lol, trump is going to get dog walked again
he'll leave with a cease fire, then as soon as he returns to the usa putin will start bombing again
and an impotent rage trump will tweet out VLADY PLEASE, TWO MORE WEEKS!

>>512411617
>Russia started drafting a peace deal as soon as they linked up with the separatists but Ukraine refused.
Right, but now it changed lol
>>512411435
>1. The borders get drawn at the black lines and ukraine gets demiliterized and nato patrol a no gunz zone (DMZ) on the border
Ukraine would never give up the other side of the river in Kherson, Russia probably can't take it anyway. It won't be the full borders of all the oblasts but could be settled for most.
>2. Russia and ukraine make a deal where russia cedes some of its captured territory in exchange for key regions + un dmc
>3. Somehow master diplomatic negotiations are brought about and russia only gets crimea, the lil bit of kherson and donetsk and luhansk+ un dmz
Likewise, Russia would never except any less than they have now, but I can see and it's highly probably Russia gives up all territory it controls outside of the 4 oblasts in Kharkiv and Sumy.
>4. The borders stay where the front is and is patrolled by un in a dmz ukraine demiliterized
I'm not sure what the Russians would say about a UN patrol, I know they won't accept a NATO country doing it though.

>>512411742
Idk man im just spitballin... what do you think? I find it unlikey there wont be any kind of world policing going on on the border after how big of a shitshow this war was. That is unless russia manages to turn it up to 11 and totally force ukraine to capitulate. Surprised they withdrew from the north and havent tried coming from up there since... its like they LIKE the stalemate. Idk i like ukranians and russians so i dont really want either to win or lose really. Such a gay war. So many hot chicks killed.

>>512411620
Anon all of that is in Donetsk, this is the border of the Luhansk oblast.

The Ukrainians had the audacity to resist so the only acceptable deal is the Black Sea coast all the way through Odessa, connecting Transnistria with mainland Russia

>>512411617
>as they linked up with the separatists
wtf are you talking about? they've been "linked up" with the separatists all the way back in 2014. If you don't know the geography of the region look it up on the map, retard.

>>512412023
>Ukraine would never give up the other side of the river in Kherson, Russia probably can't take it anyway. It won't be the full borders of all the oblasts but could be settled for most.
Yeah i dont think russia can take all of kherson either that river is a bitch

>but I can see and it's highly probably Russia gives up all territory it controls outside of the 4 oblasts in Kharkiv and Sumy.
Agreed. This is probably a likey scenario imo

Also i feel like UN will be the ones to patrol the border because its been a while since they cracked out the white helmet guys and theres no fuxking way putin will allow a nato aligned power near that border thats literally the whole point of th war

>>512409842 (OP)
There is literally no way forward for Ukraine. If the West continues to support Ukraine it will only embarass itself. Trump hates losing but he hates betrayal worse.

>>512409842 (OP)
Considering that there is no possibility whatsoever of Russia ever crossing the Dnieper to retake the right bank of Kherson, what will Putin do, assuming that these “newly annexed territories” are kept in any hypothetical deal to end the war? Simply redefine the borders of the Oblast?

>>512412023
>Ukraine would never give up the other side of the river in Kherson, Russia probably can't take it anyway.
well, that's a pickle for pootin, isn't it? pootin rushed the changes to the constitution of russia in September 2022, and included 4 WHOLE oblasts of Ukraine, without actually having control over the territories. I just don't see Ukraine giving up Zaporizhya and Kherson, the two oblast capitals in any deal. If any deal is made, it's gonna be the stop of hostilities at the current front lines. this is as good as death for pootin, and not just politically. pootin can't stop the war now ... or ever, and stay alive.

>>512409842 (OP)
It doesn't matter. It doesn't affect you. It doesn't affect me. It doesn't affect America.

>>512412355
Why won't the russia leave a demilitarized zone between Ukraine and the Urals? Why should NATO allow a China aligned region like the russia to have military so close to a NATO aligned country like Ukraine? The war will end once Moscow agrees to become a demilitarized, neutral zone.

>>512409842 (OP)

Under Russian law it would not be legal for Putin to make any sort of deal that doesn’t include the entirety of the four oblasts.

>>512412837
Why won't you go back to your the ukraine and fight?

>>512412612
>>512412770
>>512412887
>red is russian border
>blue is ukrainian border
>black is DMZ
I think any deal will force the Russians to amend the law or change the borders of the oblasts. There's no way they can cross the border into Kherson then hold it. I don't think they intend to but the threat of it is needed to hold Ukrainian forces there. This alone will necessitate a change to that oblast's border.
Then in return for Russia giving back it's territory outside of the 4 oblasts (Sumy and Kharviv), a boundary will be set in Zaporizhzhia and Donetsk.
Where will that boundary be? No fucking idea. That's for the negotiations.

Basically:
>Russia gets the territory it holds INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED, with final boundaries up to negotiation (including crimea)
>Ukraine gets all the territory otherwise held by Russia elsewhere in the country

>Russia gets sanction relief and normalized trade relations
>Ukraine gets EU assistance and path to EU membership

>Russia gets a DMZ along the line of demarcation
>Ukraine gets security assistance from the west but no NATO membership

I think that's a fair deal for both. Maybe some language about protections for Russian minorities outside of what Russia controls and some kind of non-aggression pact or something.

>>512412355
I don't know if a UN patrol is actually needed. I think both sides could manage it if there's a wide enough DMZ, like in Korea.

>>512413078
and who's gonna call you pidor on here, which you like so much, you filthy pidor?

>>512413418
to be clear, I meant crimea is interntationally recognized, not up for negotiations. meant to put that before the comma

>>512413418
>Russia gets the territory it holds INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED
never going to happen in any deal, just forget about it. Trump may "recognize" whatever he wants, but he can't force Ukraine or the international community to recognize anything, that's not how it works, honey.

>>512413668
lol you're genuinely delusional if you think that isn't already agreed to in principle. Of fucking course the territory will be internationally recognized. It's just a recognition of reality.

>>512412887
Not our problem this fag sold the hide before shooting the bear

>>512409842 (OP)
>could Trump and Putin make a deal to end the war

There won't be any deal without demilitarization of Ukraine and neutrality.

>>512413748
>the territory will be internationally recognized
what the fuck do you even mean by that, you retard? there's no "international recognition authority" recognizing annexed territories somewhere in Brussels or Geneva. you truly are a moron.

>>512413888
>demilitarization of Ukraine
that's never happening, so that's that.
>neutrality
Ukraine WAS and IS "neutral" even at thet time when that retard pootin attacked it in 2014.

>>512414044
ah so then no one needs to recognize palestine because it doesn't matter

>>512409842 (OP)

Your map is wrong. If Kramatorsk aka Pokvorsk is being seiged currently, how on Earth have you got that retarded map.

Kherson is about the only negotiation there. But there is almost no negotiation.

Any meeting is largely because Pokvorsk is being KO. In fact it's due to this fact that it seeks something else. If it goes it takes a chunk out Ukraine's position in the East.

>>512414253
>Kramatorsk aka Pokvorsk
wut
>how on Earth have you got that retarded map
bro.. that's just the map of the current front lines with a black line highlighting the extent of the 4 oblasts Russia wants.

>>512414191
countries and annexed territories are recognized by each and every country in the world SEPARATELY and INDIVIDUALLY. That's why while Canada may recognize Palestine, the USA does not. Taiwan is recognized by some countries but not by others, and so on.

>>512409842 (OP)
Russia will probably only agree on a ceasefire with a minimum Ukrainian withdrawal from Donbass. Otherwise they'd have no reason to destroy their own momentum in that direction.

>>512409842 (OP)
I wouldn't make any deal if I was the russians at this point, not after everything that's happened. Just keep taking resources that the west has already paid hundreds of billions for and let the neocons seethe. And Trump shouldn't be so uppity asking for ceasefires when he's been arming ukranians in both of his terms, just the absolute gull on that kikesucker.

>>512411054
Nah, let's keep the bloodbath

>>512411809
it always been kiyev

>>512414366
lol yea that's what I'm implying, "international recognition" just means countries understand the territory Russia controls.. is controlled by Russia.
Ukraine I assume will act like this is a huge concession when it's actually just a recognition of reality. If they're smart they'll get something for it.

>>512414327

Your a retard. Ukrainian names aren't the Russian names. Hence your dumb confusion. Read what I wrote.

You have a retarded map. It's under attack currently. The Russians are already surrounding it. Kramatorsk is the Ukrainian of Pokvorsk. It's also another city nearby and both are being seiged by the Russian offensive.


Hence calls for nonsense. Nonsense had a chance.

>>512413668
This is a faggot brain

>>512414546
I just use Liveuamap ffs. As long as the map has Stinky on it I don't care which map it is.

>>512414546
its not kramatorsk, its Kostyantynivka that is under attack

>>512409842 (OP)
>how does the war end?

With an unconditional surrender of Poland.

>>512414680

No. It's bullshit. Again Kramatorsk is Pokvorsk and it's under seige. So how have you got the Russian position miles away when it's surrounded?

Because you are playing politics for Ukraine. Again if it goes as you've stated they've got Donetsk and more. There is much left on the East side of the river outside of bigger city's. Kharkov and Zaporizhzhia and Kiev. If they cross the river Kherson and Odesa and the West. They're attack Sumyvand Dnipro.

>>512414982
>So how have you got the Russian position miles away when it's surrounded?
I'm not sure if you're confused or just actually retarded.
THE BLACK LINE IS THE TERRITORIAL BORDER OF THE OBLASTS. THE RED AREA IS WHAT RUSSIA CONTROLS.
I'm not sure how I can be any clearer.

>>512414597

You're a puppet use a wiki. Is Pokvorsk, Kramatorsk? Use it.

Is Pokvorsk under attack?

Come back when you do idiot

>>512415062

No. You're insane. You're trying to negotiate something. In that case it's already rejected. Because you aren't recognising that position.

It is surrounding Kramatorsk currently

>>512409842 (OP)
>End the war
Nothing ever ends. Get ready for another frozen conflict. Get ready for decades of irredentism and butthurt from Russians who think their government bled too many men without getting enough territory, and Ukrainians complaining that the entire western world didn't stop what they were doing to bail them out. You will be 85 years old and hospital bound watching insignificant villages in Donbabwe and the democratic republic of the Luhongo getting shelled and countershelled. Tens of thousands of Russians will die atop piles of rubble and sheet metal in towns nobody has ever heard of, so they can secure a slightly better position to launch FPV drones that kill Ukrainian children who were born, lived, and eventually died in a state of forever war.

>>512415278
??????????????

>>512415278
stop being a retard. Pokvorsk is next to Myrnohrad and is getting surrounded. Kostyantynivka is nest to Chasiv Yar which was recently taken by Russian Forces. Kramatorsk is next to Slovyansk which is several miles from the front.

>>512415320
Sounds like they'll run out of people. I'm sure our benevolent overlords have a plan to import New Europeans to repopulate the areas.

>>512413748
Crimea I reckon will be internationally recognised although it might be held back for a few years as diplomatic ballast. Pretty low likelihood of most of Europe recognising any other territories, even if Ukraine itself recognises some territories as ceded I think they might still generally consider it occupied.

>>512415478

That's old news. Kramatorsk is KO

>>512409842 (OP)
only trump said there would be a meeting, putin won't agree to the meeting because what the muricans want is a Minsk 3 which would be a huge cuck out for him, his constituents would hang him

>>512415278
Ok buddy you do that, best of luck.
>>512415644
It's the bare minimum for any negotiations lol, clearly the territory Russia controls has to be recognized as theirs.
>>512415785
Putin and the Russian government have been consistent and continually said they're open for direct talks with Trump.

>>512415112
Fuck off faggot

Kiev employs prostitutes to gather information, Kirill Budanov, the head of Ukraine’s military intelligence agency (HUR), has said.

In an interview with Ukrainian journalist Ramina Eshakzai published on Tuesday, he was asked if Kiev uses prostitutes to gather information – a practice which the reporter said is common in British intelligence.

”A normal method, isn’t it? Do you know how often men share stories to show how powerful they are, as they say?” Budanov said.

Ukrainian intelligence has been able to receive “several unique pieces of information” from men in relaxed circumstances, he added. “It’s just about things that we couldn’t have found out about at all, in principle.”

According to Budanov, “a very high percentage” of personnel serving in the HUR are now women.

>>512415866
yeah but not leader to leader, they send negotiation teams.

>>512415320
If this doesn't happen, a resistance force of saboteurs will continue to fuck up various sites in Russia. I'm surprised they've been so easy to target

>>512415866
yeah talks that concede in their words russia's security concerns which include real ukrainian neutrality
what trump has said is that he wants a ceasefire without conditions, which biden also wanted btw, with the european cheerleaders in the background claiming they will station troops in ukraine if that happens

Half of ukraines spys are whores. They have been blackmailing western politicians for decades by supplying them with children to fuck.
Everything is coming to light

>>512415882

I am not invested into this topic unlike yourself trying to convince there are negotiations of it? You're even selling prostitutes to sweeten that deal. What?

I didn't care. Except your map is wrong. It is not reflective of that situation because it's assuming it can deal for parts of it. Do you seriously think it will?

>>512416089
Yes
The west has been paying thier pet muslim terrorists in Russia to attack women and children.

>>512415980
>>512416126
>Trump-Putin summit preparations are underway, Russia says
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-trump-putin-talks-89e19bc56677064f6f9a6d6e03de7362

that was in February of this year.

>>512416250
>my map
You are a delusional faggot

>>512416333

What is APnews?

>>512416315
yeah were did that lead, did they ever meet?

>>512415478
>*teleports behind Kramatorsk*
>*heems you*

>>512416425
>But he said efforts to organize such a meeting are at an early stage, and that making it happen will require “the most intensive preparatory work.”
it lead to now lol

>>512409842 (OP)

>>512416315
that only lead to them saying they could maybe meet in Chyna and Trump freaking out about it
the russians should not meet desu. trump is paying people to kill russians calling them insane etc just like biden did

>>512416574
no, the europeans are paying us to give free shit to ukraine
>calling them stinky poopoo heads
that's just bantz m8

>>512409842 (OP)
ww1 ended with a sudden frontal collapse as germany ran out of men and resources, same thing is to be expected here.
so two more weeks.
also no one is going to end a war after this much sunk cost, might as well go all the way desu

>>512416490
just cause trump said so doesnt mean he isnt lying.
Nothing has changed to make the russians change any of their proposals. It would go the way of all the other meetings

>>512416629
publicly nato is paying, murica pays for nato
it's ridiculous for the americans to try to play the neutral party in any negotiations

>>512416640
Ukraine clearly can't go all the way to push Russia out of Ukraine, and Russia clearly can't go all the way and take all they wanted.
>>512416691
>Nothing has changed to make the russians change any of their proposals
Why would a meeting imply they would? It's a formal bilateral meeting, not a peace summit.
That would be when Trump, Putin, AND Zelensky meet.

>>512409842 (OP)
The black line should be irrelevant to end the war, but local militias in the within the Ukrainian side of that line will use the fragmentation of their regional borders as an excuse to continue the war on their own. It'll be 2014 all over again.

>>512415278
>>512415690
Kramatorsk and Pokvorsk are different cities you dense.

>>512410653
It's not just Crimea. Ukraine has been Russian for far longer than it has been independent.

>>512411617
I feel like you haven’t really paid attention to this in like 2 years and weren’t particularly familiar in the first place

>>512416784
>The black line should be irrelevant to end the war
That line is unironically extremely relevant. Russian law essentially states ALL of the oblasts that voted to join the Russian Federation are part of Russia's territory. Russia's core demand is that they are given all of it, but reality implies they won't get all of it, the prime example being across the river in Kherson.
They'll get most of it though. All of Luhansk, half of Kherson, and then over 50% of Zaporizhzhia and Donetsk.

>>512409842 (OP)
>border of the 4 oblasts Russia says it needs.

Outdated anon. Pic related is what Ukraine themselves believe is the current operational taskings.

>>512416960

id bet good money that at least half of the IDs in this thread are kgb ziggers on vpns

>>512416960
>Ukraine gets to make up Russia’s goals so that they can say that Russia didn’t meet those goals
you’re not very bright if you think this way

>>512412023
I mean they were willing to do without Kupyansk as recently as May which is a pretty critical logistics hub for Russia.
I could see Putin letting Kramatorsk and Sloviansk go if he received something meaningful in return, e.g. US recognition of Crimea and the 4 regions along the line of contact. And no NATO membership of course.
While the Russians are very much winning, cracks are starting to show in their economy.
Now I'm confident they could keep this up through 2027 but the longer it goes on the costlier it will be. Putin knows this.

>>512416960
That's just fear mongering for more gibs. If Russia actually wanted all that, they'd be trying. All they have outside of the 4 oblasts is small little meme buffers.

Old map pic but relevant.
Pretty much every serious scenario is highlighting these as minimum acceptable.

>>512414167
Ukraine had been attacking ethnic Russiaans since 2008, negroid. Kill yourself.

>>512417036
>I could see Putin letting Kramatorsk and Sloviansk go if he received something meaningful in return, e.g. US recognition of Crimea and the 4 regions along the line of contact.
Do you really? If that's the case then the world could end this fall lol. I figured Russia would push until they captured the twin big cities in Donetsk at a minimum, if that isn't needed then a deal can absolutely be made.

>>512416951
Yes I read something about this on RT. NATO says voting is not democratic though.

>>512417036
I’ve become increasingly convinced that Ukraine has lost the capability to mount a real offensive again and Russia can’t afford to do it, in the sense that it would require a full mobilization that would rape their economy entirely

>>512417042
>>512417029
The actions are literally playing out on course as that projection indicated.

>>512409842 (OP)
>could Trump and Putin make a deal to end the war?
They could have but at this point Trump's pissed with Putin because Putin kept acting like he wanted a ceasefire and de-escalation but then immediately turned around and bombed more cities, making Trump look like a chump and also annoying his wife.

So if there's a deal it's going to involve Russia withdrawing from a lot of the occupied territory, they might get to keep Crimea though.

>>512417185
>I’ve become increasingly convinced that Ukraine has lost the capability to mount a real offensive again

Well yeah every one they've tried has been a catastrophic defeat and their failed operation in Kursk wiped out their last fully equipped mobile NATO brigades.

>>512417054
Russia is absolutely never taking Odessa. They gave up on that forever by Summer 2022

>>512417168
While I get what they mean by it, they're not getting all of all the oblasts they want, but most of all of them.
>>512417316
>russia wants to take all of ukraine
>russia wants to take all of eastern europe
>putler wants to take all of europe
it's all so silly

>>512409842 (OP)
The West is totally delusional and uniformed. Russia has no reason to cede anything. The sanctions accomplished nothing. Russia is not a gas station with an army. There is nothing to haggle about. Ukraine can lose now (and save more lives) or lose later.

>>512412163
you see those white bits on the other side of the border? Those are the bits he pointed at.

>>512414499
>countries understand the territory Russia controls
all countries understand that right now anyway, officially recognizing a territory as a part of a country is something completely different. It's acknowledging that the country has sovereignty over that territory, which includes the authority to govern it and the legitimate right to exercise control over its affairs. The recognition russia seeks is a formal, diplomatic recognition, which in turn will remove any sanctions on russia for occupying that territory. This will not happen in these negotiations even if a cease fire deal is made.

>>512409842 (OP)
Clear that the Russian knocked down and beat the turkish detachments deployed at Zaporizhia and the south of Donetsk, while the mainly ukro force at the north of Donetsk made the war tough for russian.

Still a very huge turkish defeat and a severs humiliatio for the turkish

>with no real effort to take zaporizhia's capital
Nope, that one of the main front and one of the only front were russian are advancing, despite the advance being not quick.

>half of Donetsk in Russian control
Well, only the south and center, precisely.


Finally, for Russian army to win, russia must r*move Putin the moron and all the other moron like pushilin, belusoov, matvienko, gerrassimov, medvedev dyumin and all the other.

Nobles nationalists, cossacks and communists of russia are the only hope for a russian Victory.

>>512417240
>The rest of Kherson and a buffer zone by the end of 2025
hell no
A river crossing straight into the capture of a city with a population of ~250,000? No one serious is suggesting that this is on the verge of happening

>>512416951
Yes, the black line is relevant for Russia. Not for reality. Russia can't defend most of thr territories close to that black line because most of that black line goes through flat or exposed terrain. Thus, Ukrainegro militias will always start shit there. To achieve peace and stability, Russia needs to get everything East of the Dnieper, otherwise Russia will be at war in that region forever.

>>512416951
>oblasts that voted to join the Russian Federation
kek, no one recognizes these "votes".

>>512416960
>>512417112
Not realistic. Russia would need at least 700k soldiers to take Kharkov. Zaporizhzhia and Kherson maybe with 500k.
This isn't speculative either. There were 4 separate sieges, back and forth, of Kharkov during WW2 and the one with only 765k men failed.
Now taking large swathes of Dnipropetrovsk after Pokvorsk is very doable and likely wear the Russians will push the hardest in order to compel the Ukrainians to quit before they lose more territory.

>>512417316
Once they return over the Dnieper. I wouldn't say never.
pic related. They're softening up enemy logistical movement for marine landings on the industrial island of south Kherson city.

Last night there were reports of a successful Russian commando raid on Ochakov port aswell.

>>512417036
>muh economy
Is gay and fake mutts are 37 trillions in debt to Mars and nothing ever happens, china is collapsing for past 25 years if not longer, and russians have enough potatoes to keep on fighting until the end of days.

>>512417287
It was ukraine who violated every ceasefire
Faggot

>>512417474
>This will not happen in these negotiations
clearly, it would be the result of a peace settlement. not a face to face meeting with putin for the first time in Trump's 2nd presidency.

>>512417474
recognition of the Crimea annexation by the US as part of these negotiations is plausible

>>512417575
You're not going to walk away with any land, boris. You're just too weak compared to America, and Trump can freely exert his will on you.

>>512415278

It's not. You must be thinking of another city. This isn't a pro Ukraine mapper.

>>512417408
No doubt. Just let people move to whichever side they want to live on.

Its just lines on a mao

>>512417538
russia recognizes it and russia is the one that is currently controlling the land so it doesnt matter how much you seethee at the unchangeable

>>512417042
Russia actually seems to have made a new push into kherson oblast not to long ago at Milove, your issue is assuming that Russia is able to actually push for that whole area at once.

>>512417494
No one lives in the city mate, it's been dead since 2022. Most evacuated to Russia under Surovikin's masterful psy op that saved Russia from a humiliating defeat in the early months of the war.

Its a military zone, a garrison of 40,000(it used to be 80,000 before the clusterfuck at Vovchansk city and total catastrophic defeat in the Sudzha sector of Kursk oblast) spread across a city built for 300,000 people.

>>512411586
This is from September 1959 edition of National Geographic

>>512417538
The people living there recognized the votes, tranny faggot shill.

>>512417538
Doesn't matter, Russia does and it's a main part of any final settlement.
>>512417518
>>512417546
I don't think Russia takes Kherson and they keep all of Luhansk. That seems easy to see.
What the hold up will be is Donetsk and Zaporizhzhia.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Russia was ever even attempted to take Zaporizhzhia city. If that was a big target of theirs you'd think they'd at least be advancing towards it.
As for Donetsk, I 100% assume they want all of it because that's where the DPR originated. I think they want Kramatorsk and Sloviansk and they're advancing like this is the case.

>512409842
People obsessed with lines on a map completely ignoring how once th3e military folds it really doesn't matter

>>512411054
>bloodbath
Will Russians be using shovels?

>>512409842 (OP)
The war won't end. It's just going to become a frozen conflict like Norks vs Sorks. Russia cannot back off of the 4 oblasts and cannot back off of Ukraine staying out of NATO. American leadership is full of boomers who think it's 1995 still and want to dictate all the terms, which doesn't include "rewarding" Russia with those oblasts or taking NATO membership off the table. And Ukraine is full of Banderites who are perfectly fine with their entire country dying if it means one more Russian kill.

Nobody can make terms so the war won't end until the last Ukrainian.

>>512417555
I missed this. Very interesting if it shapes up into anything… but I’m skeptical. Seems more like a diversion. Have to tie down Ukrainian units defending the river line.

>>512417573
Just because "muh gee dee pee" is bullshit doesn't mean Russia's real economy isn't struggling. They have real employment issues because so many men are busy slaughtering Ukrainians.
Compound that with what economy they do have dedicated to shitting out shaheds and there isn't much left over for washers and driers and such.
Like I said they can probably muddle through the end of 2027 before things get really bad, but things will continue to get worse.
Putin has a real incentive to end the war. He just won't budge on the NATO question and it's ridiculous we're even trying crap like "what about no NATO for 10 years?"

>>512409842 (OP)
Dniepr river will be the boundary. Oblasts will be redrawn.

>>512417713
You mean Kharkiv right? And I saw that, not sure what they want to do there because they didn't really do anything in that region the entire war lol.
>>512417868
>It's just going to become a frozen conflict like Norks vs Sorks
ok but that was the result of a settlement

>>512417538
Imagine being such a monumental retard that you believe that professional photograph wasn't staged by ukrainegroes.
>the baddie Russians would just allow a professional photographer to photograph a babooshka getting surrounded by Spetsnaz while she vootes
This is your thought process. You are retarded. Kill yourself.

>>512417518
>otherwise Russia will be at war in that region forever.
that's exactly what pootin wants. If the war ever stops for 30 days or longer and the chickens (the mobics and ziggers) come home to roost, it's gonna be a cluster fuck within russia. And pootin doesn't want that.

>>512417980
I do mean kharkiv yes.
My guess is it's just a freebie they can claim as a major victory for the border zone

>>512417868
Naw
Young people in ukraine are taking to the streets. They know conscription = death.
It will end soon. Unless they decide everyone turning 25 in ukraine will be sacrificed

>>512409842 (OP)
>>512416984
>>512416960
Putin would be foolish to not continue the war to this point
>pickrel
He is negotiating with Trump currently but in a few short years another head of state (likely a democrat) might want to unearth the agreements by "reassuring Ukrainian safety" and "deepening cooperation in the region" i.e building fortifications and funneling arms and money for round 2. Putin has a choice to continue the war and settle Russian security in the region forever. Much of the infrastructure is in east Ukraine, and what is in the West (see pics on non-Russian controlled territory) is rocky, hilly, heavily wooded poverty hell. I.e no resources, no infrastructure, which would automatically fall into a rump state managed by Poland. Again Putin has a choice upcoming to double down on the war and secure Russia from having a CIA MI6 listening station on its boarders. May be the plan is to let Zelensky chimp out in the talks and have a reason to back out. IDK. Again its my opinion that if Russia does not take a majority of the east of Ukraine, we will see another Ukraine war in 15-20 years, one where the West could really hurt Russia.

As for a demilitarized zone in either case:
>Future headline
>UN Peace Keepers found
>Laying Mines
>Launching Drones
>Listening to Radio Signals
>Arresting Ukranian Russian at Check Points
>Mapping Russian Positions
>etc.

.

>>512417788
They definitely want Zaporizhzhia city but I'm sure Putin is realistic as to his ability to take it militarily.
I would have agreed with you on Donbass were it not the peace plan they floated back in May which was far more generous than I expected.
Now I'm convinced Putin is prepared to leave Donetsk unconquered if it meant US recognition of her existing gainz.

>>512418079
Ironically, the same reason Ukraine gave for taking parts of the Kursk region, is possibly why Russia is doing this.
For bargaining chips in negotiations.

>>512417408
"they're not getting all of all the oblasts they want, but most of all of them."

No, since they were unable to seize kyiv, Lviv and etc....

>>512417298
> their failed operation in Kursk
No, the kursk front is absolutely not a failure and the fight still going on, despite your propaganda delusion.

Only failure is the russian attack in Kharkiv, and then the attempt one in
sumy...
>>512417185
>increasingly convinced that Ukraine has lost the capability to mount a real offensive again
Bad headcanon, dude, and completely deceitful since the russian are the ones supposed to launched offensives, without mentioning the offensive against russia's strategic bombers fleet...

But this is ironic that the russian's bombers fleet got hit the same month the US's bombers were destroying the iranian nuclear program; fortunately, for russia's dudes, that the russian never fought a conventional war against the US

>>512417788
The only reason Russia hasn't pushed much beyond where it's at is because Russians believe they can get a pro-Russia government in Ukraine if the war ends in truce. If that doesn't happen, the nukes will fall in Lviv.

>>512417733
Even with civilians evacuated, urban offensives remain extremely difficult. I’m doubtful Russia can supply it, and I bet they share my doubts too
Almost exactly a quarter of the population (70k out of 280k) fled to Russia, I wouldn’t call that most. but this is a nitpick

>>512418163
>were it not the peace plan they floated back in May
you have a link to that?
Anyway I genuinely think this has been the front line since around the start of the war lol

>>512418207
Russia already started nervously whining about nuclear de-escalation when Trump moved a pair of subs closer to Russia.

The longer Putin continues, the stronger his position gets. He'll either not meet Trump, or shake him up badly. Trump won't want this on camera for sure. If Trump comes out of there with anything, you can guarantee he's made huge concessions

>>512417316
>Russia is absolutely never taking
>historically Russian clay full of ethnic Russians
>on the frontlines of a conflict they're winning without a mobilization
k

>>512418200
>completely deceitful since the russian are the ones supposed to launched offensives
oh? they’re “supposed to?” is that why Ukraine has tried to launch several offensives, two of which succeeded and the rest of which dramatically failed?

>>512418200
International news crews are in Kursk documenting war crimes faggot. Its over. Cope and seethe

>>512416126
>real ukrainian neutrality
>invades you
>tries to kill your nation for centuries
>"ERMMMMMM CHUDDY!!!!! Why aren't you neutral!!!!!!!!!!! Heckin russophobic BIGOT!!!!!!"

>>512418361
>Winning with a mobilization
I mean they are mobilizing the North koreans, more North Koreans have probably died in the war than Americans died in Afghanistan by now.

>>512418361
>Odessa
>on the frontlines
Can’t you at least familiarize yourself with a map before you say something like this

>>512418181
I wouldn't use Ukrainian military intelligence shill maps for that mate.

Much better maps and mappers out there that aren't literal Ukrainian military intelligence officers.

>>512417593
>recognition of the Crimea annexation by the US as part of these negotiations is plausible
so what? the rest of the world will not, and the US wouldn't recognize the 4 oblasts that russia included in their constitution in their entirety. So that's not gonna do much in terms of the sanctions.

>>512418361
>full of ethnic Russians
>winning
anon....

>>512417963
>They have real employment issues because so many men are busy slaughtering Ukrainians.
It's unclear to me why so many Americans still think cheap labor is the critical component of an already industrialized economy. Slaves are critical in feudal agriculture, and cheap skilled labor is critical when industrializing. But once you have industry making the components you need, the key to doing more with less is automation. You're still going to be demanding open borders for infinite cannibal savages while Russia founds Sangvis Ferri.

>>512418514
To be fair, I started using it for Syria over a decade ago, and use it for other conflicts, so I stick with it.

>>512418013
>Putin is afraid that well-paid volunteers might return home as heroes!
Please expand on this, retard.

>>512418542
>the rest of the world
7 out of 8 billion people in the world are on Russia's side
Faggot

>>512418002
it's a meme, you lowest of the low retards.

>>512418701
So you side with the poos and insects?

>>512418701
>7 out of 8 billion people in the world are on Russia's side
you must be 18 to post here, go brush your teeth and march to bed, child.

>>512418278
Can't find a link to the map. Should be in Dima's June 3rd episode. I just remember being shocked they were willing to part with Kupyansk.

>>512409842 (OP)
The war is in Putin's favor why would he concede anything?

>>512418163
>Putin is realistic as to his ability to take it militarily.
Realistic about the high cost and the increbibly high necessity, yes. Put yourself in his shoes. Assume you're signing the death warrant of 1 Million of your own men. Now let's split into two scenarios. In one, these men are conscripts fighting because of a draft. In the other, these are volunteers who's sign-on bonus buys a decent house in a city. Notice how much easier it would be to sacrifice the second group? Considering the actual number of dead Russians is probably still below 500k, and the threat posed if NATO aggression isn't stopped is the fate of the entire Russian people, I don't think we should expect Putin to balk at any fatality numbers except as a matter of strategy.

>>512418854
If he can get what he wants through negotiations, why spend more money and lives?
>>512418843
They don't control it though.

>>512418200
>Flaggot
>Predditor
>Kursk is still going on
Trannies at Egglin lmao

>>512409842 (OP)
It will be this.

>>512418831
Then why did NATO get kicked out of 7 countries in Africa since the war started?
Faggot shill

>>512418985
>If he can get what he wants through negotiations, why spend more money and lives?
If it's heavily in his favor yeah but if its not good enough he has the manpower to slowly grind down Ukraine via attrition

>>512418810
I want peace faggot. All ukraine had to do was stop killing russian women and children in Donbas and the war never would have started

>>512418542
The Trump admin was considering doing it in April, but I agree that it’s a strange and pointless gesture to recognize Crimea without recognizing the rest of the territory. By Russian law both annexations are equally valid, and by “international law” (lol) both are equally invalid. But there are a number of compelling arguments for why Crimea is Russia that don’t apply to the other four regions (Crimea’s undemocratic and unpopular transfer to the Ukrainian Soviet republic from the RFSR, it has a much more overwhelming ethnic Russian presence than the other four, greater legitimacy for the referendum since it was held across all territory of Crimea instead of partial control in the other four regions, that there wasn’t really a full hot war ongoing at the time of the annexation, and that there was somewhat of a continuity of regional government instead of the establishment of an entirely new structure)

>>512418582
It's not cheap labor. It's mostly men in their prime earning years not contributing to the economy. FFS they're bringing in Africans and NORKs by the trainful for manual labor.

>>512418855
He doesn't have a million men sacrifice, not without total mobilization and your average Russian doesn't care enough to tolerate that level of militarization.
Then there's the whole rest of the combat line to worry about.
Russian offensives against individual cities have topped out in the high 5 figures and I don't see them changing up their strategy any time soon.
Moreover he doesn't have to sacrifice his troops. He just needs to keep making it rain shaheds and iskanders.

>>512418627
>well-paid volunteers might return home as heroes!
kek, these "well paid volunteers" have never seen this kind of money any time before in their lives, and they will never see this kind of money AFTER the war is stopped, as no one will keep paying them this much when they return home. But imagine that you've stared death in the face, have been paid 20x than your salary back home, and now suddenly you have to go back to those meager wages? it's gonna be back to the "wild 90-s" all over again. Some 600,000 men like that back in the civilian life, but the economy cannot provide for them. You don't know what the soviet Afghan war veterans were up to in the 90s in russia.

>>512418462
More Americans died in Afghanistan than there are NorKs in the Ukraine war. Almost all of them in artillery regiments. There is one (1) unit of NorKs that even had combat. You have seen many videos of Asiatic Russians and mistaken them for NorKs because you don't know shit. Also nothing you said justifies the claim that Russia "can't" do what it's doing.

>>512418483
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odesa_strikes_(2022%E2%80%93present)
Not exactly in the rear, though, is it?

>>512418985
They don't control Siversk either but they did insist on that bit of clay.

>>512409842 (OP)
The war isnt going to end untill Stinky falls. All this war hinges on Stinky.

>>512419061
Nato... in Africa? you truly are a child.

>>512418549
>full of ethnic Russians
That's what happens when you start with a mixed population and then empty it of Ukrainian men. Demographics is destiny.

>>512419205
I want pieces of Russians everywhere as well.

>>512419486
True but that's in the Donetsk oblast. Kupiansk is in Kharkiv oblast.

>>512419257
>a number of compelling arguments for why Crimea is Russia
there are none whatsoever. you're just not familiar with the history and the subject in general.

>>512419461
>Not exactly in the rear, though, is it?
well, no, it’s a port… of course they can strike it from sea or air… doesn’t mean they can get boots on the ground in a city of a million just because they can strike it

>>512419461
Didn't Russia just say NK was sending another 50k troops in? Beside that in January NK had around 1k dead and 4k wounded out of the 12k they'd sent to that point. I have some doubts that NK troops in Russia are going to be getting good enough medical care that that number hasn't gone up a bit.

>>512419534
Ukraine has targeted more ethnically Russian regions for mobilization more heavily than their northwestern, heavily Ukrainian regions

>>512419606
lol I found someone so stupid that he thinks international law exists

>>512419527
So the USA and France are not in NATO?
Are you pretending they didnt lose six 100 million dollar NATO bases in Africa and they were given to China and Russia,?

Really faggot?

>>512419404
>your average Russian doesn't care enough to tolerate that level of militarization.
Just gauging Russian morale by the number of volunteers they have for the SMO, a mobilization would be successful there. In fact, there was a mobilization at the beginning of the war, and it was successful, and then they demobilized.
>It's mostly men in their prime earning years not contributing to the economy.
That's called cheap labor.

>>512419584
Because Russia historically cares so deeply about Ukrainian territorial integrity...
Kupyansk is the only northern rail link to Russia proper. Losing it during the Kharkov offensive is the reason they lost so much clay.
No resupply meant all the RAF could do was fall back until they hit the next rail link in Kremina.
Not controlling Kupyansk leaves half of Luhansk nigh defenseless.

>>512419527
>child
You tranny faggots really stand out
Just saying

>>512419874
Well then it sounds like the rooskies are going to be busy building up Luhansk!

>>512419702
These narratives always start as "1 Million Russians dead, North Korea depopulated to fuel meat grinder" and when pressed immediately retreat to "Well, maybe if we make some assumptions there might not be good medical care and if they send more then the number could go up."
A small detachment of NorKs doesn't prove to me that Russia's struggling any more than seeing someone pick up a benjamin they see on the ground.

>>512419855
There was a partial mobilization of 300k that Putin only did because they were on the verge of defeat.
I think by now we can accept that Putin really does want to minimize Russian casualties as much as possible.

>>512419959
They have somewhat, mostly from the east. Not nearly as much as Zaporizhzhia. Holy shit they laid that rail to Crimea with the speed of a Chinaman!

>>512419609
Your position started as
>Odessa isn't the frontline
And has now changed to a pedantic argument to redefine a destroyed major urban center as not being on the frontline.
>doesn’t mean they can get boots on the ground
This only makes sense if you mean it in the most pedantic sense possible. Ukraine isn't going to win and you should wean yourself off the copium before it runs out.

>>512420319
>Odessa
>Destroyed major urban center
Odessa is mostly untouched barring the odd drone.
>this only works if you mean it in the most pedantic sense
No it holds up in the literal sense.

>>512411972
Why is that what you want to happen?

>>512411435
what actually happens:
>ukraine continues to slowly lose ground
>russia continues to slowly advance
>eventually there's a late ww1 moment where ukraine finally runs out of men since it has always been at a 1:4 disadvantage in this regard.
>russia advances to a line of control somewhere midway through the country.
>ceasefire
>ukranian rump state
>americans still dont know where ukraine is on a map
>on to the next distraction
>euros/russians continue to cope and seethe about the war
>idk

>>512409842 (OP)
you know the point of this is to grind the ukrainian population to nothing, so that khazars can go in and retake their ancestral homeland. you know that, right?

>>512420895
its not a want, its the future

>>512420898
this is what i expect to happen from the sheer sunk cost of the war, even putin knows if he peaces out with the border as is (no way the ukrainians concede anything west of the dnieper) his regime will be in the shitter

>>512420898
>late ww1 moment
How the fuck have you been on pol for any length of time and not know how that war ended?
Germany did not have a manpower problem.
It had a kosher problem.
And in all fairness to the Ukrainians, they still have more bodies to throw on the pyre.
That said broadly agree otherwise. The breakdown will be one of morale where AFU starts shooting their officers and abandoning their positions en masse.
I mean we've already seen it here and there. Hell, 3rd Azov has bitched out twice now and they're supposed to by the ultranationalist ubermenschen lol.

>>512421113
basically. if the lines just freeze roughly where they are, it would rightfully be perceived as a major loss for russia. if they press through, regardless of cost, and score the win, they atleast maintain the international prestige of:

>if you fuck with us, we will feed meat into the grinder until one of us is dead

which makes messing with them unpalatable even for objectively superior powers like US/China, or a re-armed EU (maybe).

>>512420898
Assuming we take the casualty numbers trump gave recently which probably come from his security briefing Russia has lost 14 men for every Ukrainian they've killed this year. 114k vs 8k. Both are still growing their forces but at those loss rates this is likely to end like WW1 did for Russia.... i.e. they break first.

>>512421231
they had a morale issue, jews caused it, but it still existed. ukraine currently has a morale issue as anyone with an internet connection can see hundreds of videos a day of ukranian men being abducted by jewish commissars and forced to the front line.

>>512421283
14:1 is ridiculous, these are similarly equipped forces. in general the attackers would take around double the casualties of entrenched defenders, all things considered.

>>512409842 (OP)

West has no reason to end the war, it has every reason to bleed Russia dry. Also destroy Iran while its fragile and leave China standing alone, ensuring it will age into deflationary rot like Japan instead of daring fight alone like Russia did.

West doesn't need to defeat Russia, it only needs to squeeze its balls for a couple of decades. Any "deal" is a shortsighted surrender on the behalf of West

>>512421327
I've seen way more videos of Russians killing their commanders than i have of Ukrainians doing the same. Or just raping each other but i don't go to CHUG that often.

>>512421283
>Russia has lost 14 men for every Ukrainian they've killed this year. 114k vs 8k.
Imagine being so NPC-like that you believe this at face value

>>512421392
>Similarly equipped
Anon it's not 2024 anymore Russia is moving much more heavily towards mass infantry assaults with Tanks/APC's being pretty damned rare.

>>512421405
regardless, these are similarly equipped forces and one side has a 400% manpower advantage. it's only going to end one way, eventually.

>>512421458
I mean the Drone forces posted the other day claiming 5k confirmed dead last month. Confirmed for them meaning FPV confirmation of the drone blowing up in the russians face.

>>512421470
Infantry assaults into prepared defenses are pretty fucking not great and Russia is mostly on the offense.

>>512409842 (OP)
If I were zelensky I would bring a pistol in my ass and shoot putin

>>512421696
btw in this scenario it is an anus operated pistol
to clarify

>>512421696
Russian vpns always give up the game by bringing up anal stuff, it's kinda concerning really.

>>512421696
Yes
Zelensky can fit very large things into his blown out gay anus

>>512421785
see another one....

>>512411054
why would ukraine concede any large cities?

>>512409842 (OP)
If that's what Russia wants. Russia gets to dictate the terms since Trump and Zelensky are surrendering in the war they started.

>>512409842 (OP)
>>512413418
Russia will NEVER EVER accept a peace deal where ukraine has the ability to cut off crimeas water supply again.

>>512421892
i mean..... by blowing the damn they don't really control the water supply anyway do they?

>>512421766
Not any different than you nafo faggots and your cope spam posts. You're the one group that manages to make russia shills seem tolerable by comparison.

>>512421996
I only come here to look at maps, but the mass amount of crying by Russian posters is fun to laugh at. Speaking of which this all seems like more than normal? Anything happen today or is this all from those SU's blown up in Crimea the other day still? I imagine given Russia's..... lack of ability to actually produce new planes in volume every new loss hurts a bit more.

>>512420319
ports aren’t the frontline lmao
you’re being pedantic by trying to call “not exactly in the rear” equivalent to “on the frontline”

>>512421283
If you believe that only 8000 Ukrainians have died this year then you should be euthanized on the grounds of eugenics

>>512421392
Ukrainians are retreating not entrenched.
Routed fleeing armies always take mega casualties.

>>512423153
The Russian push north east of Pokrovsk has moved like 6 miles in the last 2 and a half months.
While that's faster than they have been since early 2022 the snail to berlin has advanced 54 miles in that same time period.

>>512421392
>14:1
Incorrect
>these are similarly equipped forces
incorrect
>in general the attackers would take around double the casualties of entrenched defenders
incorrect
>entrenched defenders
incorrect

>>512421283
>Assuming we take the casualty numbers trump gave recently
Why?
>which probably come from his security briefing
Trump literally banned his people from those briefings. Tulsi isn't allowed in the room and Cashapp was too stinky. He's only getting his orders and information from Israelis.

>>512421578
>5k confirmed dead last month.
3 * 12 * 5,000 = 180,000 for the entire war, assuming Ukraine is telling the truth, which it isn't. This number matches the current BBC estimate of ~200k total *casualties*. This number includes Chechens, NorKs, Wagner, and VDV.
Now please articulate the other half of the equation. How do you arrive at the completely deluded take that Ukraine has lost a total of only 8,000 men this month?

>>512423986
Why would you assume that the drone forces are the only ones getting any kills at all?

>>512421863
If Ukraine was run by Ukrainians acting in Ukraine's interest, conceding major cities that aren't ethnically Ukrainian would make a lot of sense right now to preserve cities that are.

>>512421632
>Infantry assaults into prepared defenses are pretty fucking not great
Combined assaults by drones, artillery, and corsair infantry into unmanned positions go pretty well though. It's called Maneuver warfare and the Russians are better at it than Europe because they learned it from the Mongols

>>512424206
>corsair infantry
Now that's some of the funniest cope i've seen this war.

>>512417492
I haven't heard of Turkish regulars being in Ukraine. Do you have a source?

>>512424206
it's all ethnically ukrainian tho

>>512409842 (OP)
the peace talks will fail just like the iran ones did, witkoff isn't known as "the angel of death" for nothing, this is just a cynical strategem, ukraine will likely attack moscow directly, and NATO will directly confront russia possibly at kaliningrad.

>>512411054
IMO those two cities are the most likely area for tactical nukes or dirty bombs to be set off, by either side, for that reason. each side would likely blame the other.

also zaporhyzia NPP getting attacked would be a great casus belli for NATO to get directly involved in the war

can we somehow ban Russia from using US IP addresses that'd be great

>>512412259
turning ukraine into a rump state west of the dnepr without odessa has always been the stretch goal. hungary, poland, romania would all likely carve off chunks of western ukraine/bessarabia/galicia as well, selling it as "peacekeeping operations" with ukraine splintering up into about 8 federated "people's republics"

>>512424057
>Why would you assume that the drone forces are the only ones getting any kills at all?
Take the difference between BBC's estimate and 5k/mo drone kills and the remainder are non drone kills. I didn't assume those don't exist. You misread.

Here's the justification for assuming drones get almost all the kills.
Drones are the largest casualty producing element on the field according to both sides in this conflict. There are entire Ukrainian units of nothing but drone forces right now, therefore those units can't be scoring non-drone kills. That's why Russia is steadily walking forward on every front it cares to. No infantry to oppose them. The trenches Ukraine dug are mostly unmanned and Russians on motor bikes are able to defeat the defenders in detail. At no point in the war was Ukraine winning air or armor battles, and Russia's artillery advantage has become artillery supremacy. Therefore, the thing Ukrainians use to kill isn't armor, air, artillery, or infantry. It's drones.

You still haven't explained how you think Russia lost 144k men in 8 months, if most were not drone kills? And how are they maintaining a volunteer force if they lost half of their volunteers this year? Also, why do you believe Ukraine's claim that they only lost 8k per month? Why do trust a Donald Trump tweet over the BBC?

>>512424247
If it's stupid but it works, it's not stupid. Do you mock Hamas for using paragliders? Moving infantry around on motorbikes is smart. They're more mobile and more disposable than an APC, and cheaper than horses.

>>512409842 (OP)
ukraine's "sacrifice" meant nothing

the sociopathic bibilical-scale arrogance & hubris of the ukrainian people
will be a living message to all of mankind,
a 'warning' for anyone who wants to believe western-lies
the lunatic arrogance the ukraine displayed during this conflict
will result in a merciless tsunami of humiliation and memetic backlash.
the nation will dissolve,
and
the word: 'the ukraine' itself
will become a monument to the collossal arrogance of the most brain addled,
mis-informed and manipulated puppet in the history of statehood

the ukraine will become an 'un-marked grave' to the liberal world order
ukraine will be forgotten and buried, like the now millions of men it pointlessly sent to their death

the fate of the ukraine is to be demilitarized, de-industrialized,
and turned into an effeminant rump-state that the eu will innudate with lgbtq propaganda,
inextricably tied to the meager and and inssufficient 'aide' to rebuild whatever is left of your country
after Russia is done smashing it

>>512425195
>There are entire Ukrainian units of nothing but drone forces
The 5k dead russians last month are specifically from the Unmanned Systems forces which amount to about 5k troops. While other branches have drones those aren't counted in their total.
Understandably most of Ukraines troops are in their ground forces which see a majority of the combat.
>Russians on motorbikes are able defeat defenders in detail
That why you've got stuff out of the lyman direction of a mass motorbike assault being defeated in detail by caltrops and artillery/infantry
>Russia's artillery advantage has become artillery supremacy
Are you high? Russia hasn't had anything more than very localized superiority since HIMARs showed up and they are barely managing parity since they started using NORK ammo.
>Russia lost 144k min in 8 months
114k though that's splitting hairs
>How are they maintaining a volunteer force if they lost half their volunteers this year
Tight information control to prevent people from learning about how well the war is going + If they have 2 people volunteer and one dies that still means 1 more guy in the theater that wasn't there before.
>Ukraine's claim that they only lost 8k per month
Oh you silly silly fool, it's 8k so far this year what BBC article are you talking about anyway?

>>512425641
god i wish that was me

>>512425315
There's a slight difference between Hamas using paragliders to attack a music festival and using motorbikes to attack prepared defenses.
I mean it's better than going pure infantry..... well maybe not, infantry is slower but easier to hide than a motorbike on open terrain if you stick to the trees.

>>512425762
>god i wish that was me

>>512409842 (OP)
Well, there are few ways we can look at that
1) Russia can just occupy oblasts and not budge

>>512420898
The idiots here refuse to see the big picture like you, russia doesn't need 10 gorrillian more men to attack cross so many points, they just need to bleed ukraine dry.

If they wanted they could have used the big bombs and overwhelmed on many fronts like belarus to end the war years ago but didn't, and if they did they would have been decimated by guerilla fighters afghanistan style.

Russia simply realized they can bleed all resistance to death for generations, why would they zerg rush now when they learned the hard way it will cause issues.

I honestly think they were dumb enough to attempt a 2nd gulf war style attack, but when that fizzled out they stopped plans to advance from belarus as they clearly wanted to do.

Total Russian victory is highly likely, it would require something abnormal like a revolution for russia to lose.

>>512427483
This assumes of course that Russian K/D ratios are accurate.... since western sources have things lopsided enough Russia will bleed itself first.

>>512420898
Most accurate assessment.

The attritional warfare is also beneficial post-war. It's the best way to eliminate Ukraine's sperm bank in a legal fashion.

>>512410520
>Just end the fucking war.
Fuck off and die hippy.

What causes retards like you?

>be leaf shithead
>be in comfortable leaf zone that's safe
>hear news about slavic shithole on other side of the planet
>slavs are having a fight
>the fight doesn't affect your leaf containment zone at all
>NO NO NO I MUST END THIS! END ALL FIGHTING

World peace is another form of totalitarianism. People and nations have a right to fight each other. Die hippy.

>>512426176
What do these girls do for a living?
I'm genuinely curious.

>>512425861
>using motorbikes to attack prepared defenses.
They're just for crossing the grey zone. The prepared defenses are trenches with barely trained conscripts that are being suppressed by artillery and drones. Small arms fire on the approach is probably the least of concerns compared to FPV drones, which could kill you just the same whether you're in an APC or on a motorbike. Artillery would be a concern, but Ukraine doesn't have enough guns or shells to fill the grey zone with shrapnel apparently.

It's crazy how little territory has shifted over the past year or so.
I am impressed by Ukraine for managing to defend the lines so effectively.

>>512409842 (OP)
Trump will keep Putin waiting, and when his guard is down will burst into the room and beat him to death with a giant BBC.

>>512409842 (OP)
>Trump-Putin meeting
Nothingburger just like every other talk they had.

>>512420898
If Ukraine is at a 1:4 manpower disadvantage but a 14:1 kill advantage then Russia will run out of men first.

>>512429396
Meanwhile Putin is the one importing millions of jeets and Africans to fill a totally-not-war-related shortage of working age men.

>>512409842 (OP)
>liberals and retards still thinking Russians will stop
Same story here the local retards think Ukraine will make it.
Russians have absolutely no reason to stop. They literally won't stop that's the point, they can't(even if they wanted to which they don't) either since they've committed quite a lot. This has gone on so long that the war won't stop until they have Ukraine capitulate and they're getting closer to that day by day by grinding them down. Its sad that a lot of people can't see that.
Trump probably also knows this. They might negotiate on something else but Ukraine thing is over. There will be no deal there.
This is why its important not to get involved in retarded globohomo vs gulaghomo games.

>>512412612
>Simply redefine the borders of the Oblast?
Ugh, yeah.
How do you think most nations borders come about to begin with?
This isn't some videogame where you capture entire provinces st once.

>>512413668
It kinda is.
Sure, Germany or whoever can refuse to recognize the legitimacy of the deal, but what the fuck are they gonna do?

>>512435301
Isn't there someone whose consent you're forgetting?

Putin posts on /pol/.

>>512435905

>>512409842 (OP)
The war isn't ending until a pro Russian, anti EU, anti NATO government is in power in Ukraine.
I mean, duh.

Where the fuck are ukrainian flags? Why is nobody kvetching and complaining? This thread is oddly organic

>>512409842 (OP)
Ukraine isn't certainlyering all that territory faggot.

>>512409842 (OP)
They should have gone for vladistock and called it a day

>>512435902
The Myth of Consensual Peace Deals

>>512434559
Everybody knows the war won't end until Putin is swan-songed petukh. That's why anyone with a fucntioning brain doesn't care about cheeto lad and his retardation.

>>512412032
World police will not happen.
America will not be allowed in there and Europe is full of cucks paying for their immigrant bulls, who stay home and fuck their women. No balls or ability to walk the line.

That is not happening.

The only answer is the war will continue. It will continue until Putin's or Zelensky's death. Then it will continue only if the successor has the will to do so.

>>512409842 (OP)
Odessa will 100% be in the final deal.

>>512437204
The ukraine is dead as a state and I’m here to see its final breath

>>512437375
>The ukraine
Ok Sukdeep Dikshit

>>512437560
It’s the norm silly goose
>the ukraine
>Kiev
>Artemovsk
Sorry to ruin your little subversion shitskin

>>512438395
Ok Sukdeep

>>512438730
You’re welcome taras

>>512438395
We call it that in English because it's a descriptive like the Netherlands or the Congo. I thought you cunts didn't say "the" much or at all.

>>512411054
>Kramatorsk and Sloviansk are the big prizes in the region
Only because water supply for Donetsk aglomeration goes through them. In all other senses they have little industrial value

Hohols denied water supply and Donetsk aglomeration is a stater of permanent humanitarian catastrophe because of it. War would never stop until this strategic threat to Donbass is eliminated.

>>512424869
>zaporhyzia NPP getting attacked would be a great casus belli for NATO to get directly involved in the war
On the side of Russia?

>>512421327
>jews caused it
I think it was probably more down to Germany being on the brink of starvation and the army being in headlong retreat across the whole of the western front.

>>512409842 (OP)
Putin will never stop until he takes Odessa and NATO is humiliated, ruined and disbanded.
He knows it, and they know it.

>>512417316
He will, and (You) and I will die trying to stop it, unless we hang all our leaders first.

>>512409842 (OP)
it will probably fail but it should end with moscow nuked really. you cant normalize war of conquest made with fabricated excuses

>>512440244
>water supply for Donetsk aglomeration goes through them
this is only recent vatnigger retcon to explain the absolute incompetence and disaster the 2022 escalation brought to the region, the previous eight years of bombili bombas had no problems with water supply, only the near the front line parts of Donetsk city but then it was explained by the ukie control of the Yasinuvata water filter station
t. live in this region

>>512442985
pidersberg should be nuked too desu but it probably won't because its located on the NATO lake formerly known as Baltic sea

>>512438395
>silly goose
What a faggot

>>512409842 (OP)
Anything letting ukraine retain more than 3 Western regions in the West, let alone access to the sea, is a total defeat for Russia.

>>512409842 (OP)
the only deal that ends the war is full accession to russian demands

>>512409842 (OP)
>Putin agrees to halt offensives
>America says some non-binding thing about Ukraine not joining NATO
>Ukraine claims Russian conquests still
>Russia claims Ukrainian territory still
>Putin claims he liberated Luhansk and Donetsk and ensured Ukraine won't join NATO, decisive Russian strategic victory
>Trump claims he stopped Russian attacks and ensured Ukrainian territorial integrity, decisive American strategic victory

>>512444000
go home and get in the trench mykola

>>512445085
one West was enough. Pic related. Anything larger than that and war will ignite again this time globohomo wins against just globo.

>>512409842 (OP)
>can't even take Kramatorsk

>>512445208
make me

>>512445322
t. 50 year old british expat homosexual with limp dick

>>512445265
Ternopol and Ivanofrankovsk are Urina-speaking. We won't commit genocide, so let them stay in Ukraine. But the rest of the regions, including Russian Kyiv, need to be returned home.

>>512445429
Kiev! Fuck google!

The Ukies will go down as absolute legends

>>512409842 (OP)
honestly i don't give a shit anymore. it can go on forever for all i care. nothing ever happens and a deal is never made, the status quo will be upheld

>>512445429
>Kyiv
>>512445466
no excuses. Potato farm, now!

>>512445429
>We won't commit genocide
speak for yourself farmboy

>>512445582
Gibs me puhtaytoh

>>512445429
And the reason I put those 2 jewish cities out of future ukraine is I do not want them be near us in an EUSSR setting.

>>512445429
> Blyadrussia

Kek. Russia can forgive a lot of things, but the treachery is not one of them. Cheers.

>>512445610
Import them from Egypt as Germoney do here, because ours or Belarus ones are not kosher enough.

>>512445606
Haхyй тeбe вecь этoт ypинявый кoпpocкoт в oднoй cтpaнe нyжeн? Чypoк чтoль мaлo? Haдo кpыcaм ocтaвить выхoд, чтoб вce ypинцы мoгли cьeбaть тyдa или в гeйpoпy c изpaилeм. Или ты хoчeшь чтoб хoхлы пoтoм дoмa взpывaли и пpoчий тeppopизм ycтpaивaли? A тaк вceх дoлбoeбoв пpивoзить к гpaницe c ocтaткaми ypины, пинкa пoд зaд и впepeд в eвpoпy.

Russia will fold up like syria at some point

>>512446087
Tы бyльбaш eбaный пoпycтиcь oк, никoгдa нe знaeшь ктo pядoм c тoбoй мoжeт oкaзaтьcя хoхлoм пoд пpикpытиeм, нe мы этo нaчaли нo мы этo зaкoнчим Cлaвa Укpaїнi!

>>512446087
Traitors will be put to death. Ukrainians betrayed eastern slavicdom and for that they will be eradicated.

>>512446395
Я дa я poт твoй eбaл кpыca чypкoжидoвcкaя, вы биoмycop никoгдa cлaвянaми, нe были нe внeшнe ни внyтpeннe. Пoдлaя и yeбищнaя мpaзь. Cмepть Уpинe!

>>512446684
They can't betray anything because a Ukrainian is a social construct of a Jew and a Tatar that was created by Komi faggots. Russians still look like Russians. And Ukrainians are black-assed.

>>512446703
>Я дa я poт
твoй poт мoй хyй eбaл вы вooбщe cвинocoбaки pycькoгoвopящиe гaзeнвaгeн пo вaм плaчeт

>>512447096
Гoвнoглaзый? Бpюнeт? Лeгкий эпикaнтyc ecть? Увepeн чтo дa.

Tвoя мaмaшa пoтoмcтвeннaя жидoвcкaя шлюхa из шинки, в кoтopyю cпycтил тypoк. Пoэтoмy вaм чepнoжoпым выpoдкaм тaк бoмбит oт вceгo pyccкoгo. Beдь вы чepнoжoпыe yблюдки cлaвянaми нe являeтecь. У вac дaжe цepкoвь вepтyхaй гoмoceкcyaлиcтoв.

>>512447199
Not understanding your mamasha runes, can read жидoвcкaя though. Catholics are just a homosexual, foreskin enjoyer sect by now, so far away of their 1200-1400 years

>>512447199
ты cлишкoм мнoгo пpoэциpyeш yнтepмeнш, oт вceгo pyccкoгo y нac бoмбит пoтoмy чтo этo низшaя фopмa кyльтypнoгo быдлa, мeнтaльных paбoв и мopaльных ypoдoв

>>512447585
Asked a Ukrainian Jew why he was dark-eyed and brunette and what relation he had to the Slavs. Assumes that he is the hereditary son of a Jewish whore who served Turks in a Jewish pub called "Shinka"

>>512447914
Eщe paз гoвнo, пoчeмy ты гoвнoглaзый бpюнeт? Кaкиe oтнoшeниe вы чypкoжидoвcкиe выpoдки имeeтe к cлaвянaм? Bы дpoвa для пeчки, этo oчeвиднo любoмy ктo вac видeл.