Thread 515275877

It used to be an effective tool for deterring crime, but now it seems virtually useless.
Most states in the US have a death penalty, but they don't really utilize it, even with repeat offenders, and it takes a tremendous amount of time to be enacted.

What's /pol/'s take on it? Should it be utilized more often, restricted to only the worst of crimes, or abolished?

>>515275877 (OP)
Kill all lifers. We have no reason to even feed them.

I think AI could probably be used to make it cheaper than life in prison and fiscally conservative so I could support it over extrajudicial justice.

>>515275877 (OP)
The death penalty was never a deterrent to crime but it was a useful societal tool to remove serious problems from the gene pool and should be used more often

>>515275877 (OP)
>Thoughts on the Death Penalty?
rapists and murderers get the rope.

the argument against death penalty is not that it wouldnt be better for society if we just killed certain people, it's that we shouldnt give the government the right to murder its citizens

>>515276063
What do you mean?

>>515275877 (OP)
It should be for bankers

>>515275877 (OP)
>was found innocent after execution
hmmm maybe thats why they take a lot precautions before doing a execution

>>515276276
>>515276167
I think that's a sound argument, actually.
But if that's the case, does it justify them suffering in prison forever? Why not instead give the loved ones the option to pull the lever, if they should so choose?

Like, if your daughter/son gets raped/murdered (God forbid) the father should have the ability to pull the lever on the rope.

>>515275877 (OP)

Simple.

If more than 3 people saw you do it, and you are identified as the clear perpetrator of murder; your trial should be swift and you should be executed in under a year. The only way you can get out of it is in legitimate self-defense or preservation of someone else's life.

Anything else, no. Don't care if you're crazy, high, or suffering from systemic whatever.

>>515276276
The paradox of tolerance eh. Why not just let anyone invade and murder us and spend huge amounts of taxpayer money keeping them alive for the rest of their life? What a great idea

The argument you present is completely reasonable in isolation but like tolerance completely evaporates when you look at the bigger picture

>>515275877 (OP)
It's more humane than life in our prison system, and cheaper for the tax payer. Why should a serial murderer be allowed to live and have me foot the bill for his continued existence?
>hurr, but he's still human!
And so are murder victims, but nobody seems to give a shit about them or their families when compared to actual murderers.

>>515275877 (OP)
I dont' really like the idea of giving the state the power to kill people. I also don't like the idea of innocent people being killed. That said, the nig 100 percent did that, 0 percent chance they got the wrong guy. Does not deserve to be a burden on tax payers for the rest of his life. Yea idk.

In its current state it's really fucking expensive because these guys will spend 10+ years fighting it in appeals. You'd have to remove the ability to do that.

Fry these subhuman criminal scum...no lethal injection...the chair only...make them suffer like they made their victims suffer...no mercy...

>>515275877 (OP)
From my perspective, the US has a legal system can minimize error in this kind of punishment. I think that if they could expedite it, that would be way more effective as a deterrent. What do you think?

>>515276692
>The argument you present is completely reasonable in isolation but like tolerance completely evaporates when you look at the bigger picture
its not about tolerance. its from keeping the government from murdering you for whatever crime they come up with. its the slippery slope theory. we start executing serial killers, then murderers, then rapists, then burglars, and before you know it the government has allowed themselves to kill you for saying the wrong thing.

>>515276110
>The death penalty was never a deterrent to crime
Wrong. This was definitely a deterrent. The problem is that in the modern day nobody sees it and it's too gentle. When people saw a person die with their own eyes by having their neck snapped or their head cut off or worse yet, being broken on the wheel or drawn/quartered or drowned in a bog or any of the other horrific methods used in the not so distant past, they remembered that shit.

Nowadays it happens in a closed room for a small audience and just consists of some guy shitting himself once the nerve gas takes hold. Too abstract for the kind of person who needs correction.

>>515276656
>If more than 3 people saw you do it,
you do realize people have lied in court cases? like more than 5 people have lied to screw over one person?

>>515276767
States have been killing each criminals as a form of punishment for serious crimes for as long as civilization's began, why are you opposed to the idea?
Personally, I think for the well being of society it's necessary in some cases to do. Not by this piece of shit, kike run government, though.

>>515276592
>Why not instead give the loved ones the option to pull the lever, if they should so choose?
that would be enabling vengeance, which does not belong to man due to guilt.
an executioner should be voted into office.

>>515275877 (OP)
it's based we need to bring it back

>>515276656
>in under a year
if found guilty it should be immediate.

>>515276656

I was anti death penalty for decades but in the last few years Ive come to think its a good tool for removing the cancer at minimal cost to society

The main reasons I was against it were for the swedes very sound reason >>515276276 and because of potential miscarriages of justice. When I was a 18 my best friend got 8 years in the big house for allegedly raping a 33 year old woman in front of 4 witnesses. After 4 months inside he killed himself. One of the witnesses then came forward out of guilt and admitted that they were paid to make the statements and the rape never happened. My friend had turned down the advances of said woman and embarrassed her in front of her friends and they wanted revenge. That woman should have got the death penalty but instead she went unpunished

>>515276960
I wouldn't be so sure, there've been multiple instances of completely innocent people being convicted of crimes due to sheer incompetence.

>>515276742
>It's more humane than life in our prison system
you are now aware of why life sentences are man's vengeance.
if you want to punish, you leave them alive.
if you want to clean the air, you rope them.

>>515275877 (OP)
Absolutely yes.

>>515275877 (OP)
Extremely expensive, empirically not a deterrent, zero effect on the psychological well-being of families, all with a whopping 90% accuracy rate. It's an indicator of shitholes inhabited by retards, religious extremists and unloved manchildren who'd rather throw feces and scream than think critically about anything.

>>515276964
I agree with you. I used tolerance as its yet another ideal that looks great in isolation but doesnt work in a real society. Not if you dont want it to be destroyed

I fully agree with you that we dont want to be giving that power to the government. We also dont want to have cancer in our societies. At some point you have to decide which priority matters more because there isnt a compromise here. This is the sort of problem that fascism deals well with however it brings many other problems along with it

Its very easy to put forward a simple, isolated point of view as you did. Its makes complete sense in isolation but the negative consequences are never explored with this kind of simplistic thinking

>>515277313
That would result in a higher rate pf executed innocents than currently exists anywhere. That is a hefty price to pay. Literally even Singapore doesn't do that because the risk of executing innocents would be huge.

>>515277191
It would be justified and give the victim's family/victim themself closure. Would this be morally wrong as an option?
If someone had murdered one of my family, I'd gladly do it if given the choice. Ultimately me or an executioner is still vengeance.

>>515275877 (OP)
death penalty for those who oppose the death penalty

Wow a thread on /pol/ with real human beings holy fuck

>>515277607
>empirically not a deterrent
I question this claim. Please support it, and thereby strengthen your position AND prove you are not a shit flinger yourself.
Just had the pro dp side shit on me for even raising points so maybe you can win me over.

>>515277801
>It would be justified and give the victim's family/victim themself closure.
if you would gain closure by killing then you also deserve the rope.
>>515277788
>That would result in a higher rate pf executed innocents than currently exists anywhere
you speak as if any of us are going to live forever.
God will sort them out.

if you want blood... you got it.

Don't support it for vengeance. Don't support it to deter crime. Don't support it for economic utilitarian reasons. None of these are acceptable behaviors for how humans can justify killing another human. Support it for one over-arching reason: there are some people in this world who are so dangerous, their existence can not be tolerated in good conscience. They demonstrate such absence of empathy and euphoria for suffering that they can not be allowed to be part of the human species. These people are what you would call pure evil. They can not be cured and they will never feel remorse or pity. They may never reflect on their actions in any way. Humanity has a duty to not allow these people to exist and even keeping them in a life long cage is an afront to what we are as a species.

If you hang around here long enough you'll learn about the most horrific murders beyond your imagination. Then you'll come to understand how bad it really gets. There is no other acceptable option for what to do to these people.

>>515278565
>Support it for one over-arching reason: there are some people in this world who are so dangerous, their existence can not be tolerated in good conscience
bingo.

>>515277999
>if you would gain closure by killing then you also deserve the rope.
Why? I don't think I or any normal person would be considered a monster for seeking vengeance over losing a loved one, in fact I think people are morally obligated to right wrongs committed against them.

>>515278565
There's more than the utilitarian side to it, there's a moral side to it. By committing a rape or a murder one is affecting the individual's immediate family and friends, as well as the community at large by doing so. It's not just one person being victimized.

>>515275877 (OP)
Tough call boss, am on the fence, sometimes I say *they deserve to die, but I remember I'm not God, sometimes these people can find Jesus, also death row isn't a quick process either, so I'm on the fence, life in prison is a terrifying concept, death is not necessarily a deterrent to crime look at the mafiosos, just on the fence here, personally I'm fine with the current system, if there was a deterrent for crime it'd have been established and in use, reducing incentives may be a better option and criminalize glorification of crime, look at the UK or Australia, glorify Nazis=jail glorify gangbanging=€ or $ here, rap music is certainly a huge contributor to crime, money and greed being the largest incentive of course so yea idk, but yea it's an issue left up to the state and as we know some states are corrupt atm
Jarvis pull up California incarceration rates compared to other states

I think it should exist only in instances of overwhelming, undeniable proof that a murder occurred or murders.

Also in instances of rape of minors.

>>515279144
That's a fair point. The damaged caused to the victim's loved ones and the devastation their loss causes on the community as a whole should be weighed. But remember that vengeance can not bring closure. Multiple religions reveal this wisdom even if it is not apparent on the surface.

>>515275877 (OP)
I think the death penalty should not only exist for the worst of crimes but should be publicized as well on national TV. Make a statement to would be offenders. Put the fear of God in them.

>>515275877 (OP)
Death penalty for all non-whites for the crime of being non-white.

>>515277916
You can just type "does the death penalty reduce crime rates" into any search engine. It's an overwhelming academic consensus. And if that's not enough you can always just use good old common sense. "Hm, I live in a death penalty state and there is a legal precedent for it to be enacted on offenders of the horrific crime I'm about to commit. If I knew I would only face life in prison I would gladly carry this out, but the possibility I'll be executed by the state in 20 years is really affecting my cost-benefit analysis." Literally no one has ever thought this. That's not how crime works.

>>515275877 (OP)
AUTOMATIC execution for:
>rape
>pedophilia
>murder
>supporting, advocating for or otherwise aiding terrorism or terrorists
>production, distrobution of CSAM, drugs, ilicit guns etc

>>515275877 (OP)
BRING BACK THE DEATH PENALTY
BRING BACK GUILLOTINES
BRING BACK GALLOWS
BRING BACK ELECTRIC CHAIRS
BRING BACK BURNING AT THE STAKE
BRING BACK CRUCIFIXION
EXECUTE THEM WHEN CONVICTED
FUCK THIS SITTING ON DEATH ROW FOR 10 YEARS ONLY TO GET A QUIET LETHAL INJECTION LONG AFTER ANYONE CARES BULLSHIT

>>515275877 (OP)
Death Penalty is great!
>Saves tax payer money!
>Ceases needless suffering!
>Reduces crime permanently!
>Environmentally friendly!

>>515275877 (OP)
a hollow point to the head immediately after the verdict would be far cheaper than housing and feeding them for any amount time. its the most rational choice

if there's one thing I've learned on this earth, its that a lot of people need to die.
why would you disarm us of our best treatment for white supremacists?

The severity of the penalty for some offense must be inversely proportional to one’s tolerance for it. The most severe penalty is death (you can’t threaten torture, cause I can opt out via suicide), so the thing you tolerate the least must be punished by it, so that the offense occurs with the lowest possible frequency. If it’s not, you have some nonzero amount of tolerance for it, and are ok with it occuring with a higher-than-minimal frequency.

How do you think child rape stats would move if it were punished by death vs some time in prison (notwithstanding other prisoners killing the offender)?

Do you think niggers would rob and loot and prey on innocents if everytime a nigger did that, they were dragged into the street and summarily shot, and the video circulated on social media into every other nigger’s feed? “Deez ypipo ain’t playin’, sheeeit.”

Crime prevention is 99.9% deterrence. “Don’t do this thing or I’ll kill you” is kind of the essence of law and order.

So I am for the death penalty, but I don’t think it should be applied liberally, for the simple reason that you can’t fuck up and sentence an innocent man to death. There’s always gonna be some rate of error in sentencing and you want to minimize it when administering the death penalty. Atleast you can give a wrongfully imprisoned man some money. That makes you more square than if he were dead.

>>515283572
Support for the death penalty seems to be a bipartisan issue.

>>515280925
But that’s precisely how one’s internal calculus works, minus your sarcasm. The key element in there is “…in 20 years”. The deterrent effect of punishment diminishes with time from present. Imagine the death penalty is administered 20 minutes after the perp gets caught, and imagine every would-be criminal knows this. You think this will not have a deterrent effect? Cause right now, the death penalty is more like “I sentence you to death by natural causes” cause it’s gonna be a couple decades before they get around to killing me, it mightaswell just be a prison sentence.

I don’t think Norwegians should chime in on matters of crime and punishment. You people are an enigma. Aren’t your prisons resorts? Kek. 5 star meals and round-the-clock free, unlimited, nubile prostitutes?

>>515275877 (OP)
Most states in the US have a death penalty, but they don't really utilize it, even with repeat offenders, and it takes a tremendous amount of time to be enacted.
>and it takes a tremendous amount of time to be enacted.

It is made this way on purpose. The death penalty should be cost effective not made expensive on purpose to make it "humane". Rope is cheap i.e. hanging them, have a guillotine set up, or employ a headsmen. The US is all about job creation and with a headsmen you will be creating jobs. If you aren't going to have a speedy death penalty for violent offenders especially repeat offenders then you have to have stuff like exiling them from the country or penal colonies abroad. The fact we have none of those now and only life in prison which is no real justice at all especially when they can just appeal endlessly to get out early is ridiculous.

>>515275877 (OP)
I don’t believe the government should have power to end lives
Back to work camps

>>515276276
>don't give the government the rig-
stop right there
RIGHTS COME FROM THE GOVERNMENT.
the gov has a monopoly on violence
I doesn't need the right to kill
kill all killers, rapists and traffickers

>>515284628
>the government shouldn’t have…
>…the power to end lives.

You’ve defined government in fewer words than anyone has before. Bravo.

>>515275877 (OP)
Use it more on Niggers

>>515275877 (OP)
It should exist, but unfortunately it leads to a moral quandry most people can't cope with (East Asians have no issue with this quandry however).
A. You reserve it for crimes that meet two criteria - a completely unjustified homicide (Asians tend to request that it also meets an arbitrary level of "worst kind" of crime).
B. Overwhelming evidence of guilt

B is where it gets tricky. If we are honest and sensible, most of us know there are crimes where the perpetrator is dead-to-rights guilty. It's on video, they are caught with a head in their car, they got stopped in the act etc. We also know there are cases where it's extremely probable the suspect committed the murder. You WOULD divide the two on the matter of the death penalty.
However, this will lead to people wrestling with two questions.
1. Well, if the suspect didn't meet the Overwhelming Guilt threshold, should they be in prison at all?
2. Does a victim get justice if the perpetrator doesn't meet the threshold and is sentences to life in prison rather than the deathy penalty?

I would have no issue with dividing the two categories. Perpetrators like the Train Stabber easily drop into the death penalty bucket. Perpetrators who are found guilty due to say, witness testimony, solely confessions or a large amount of circumstantial evidence, fall into the Life category.

You can even bolster the system by setting a term limit for the execution. At the 5 year mark, an innocence project style tribunal re-asseses the case and then signs off on it's finality.

Am I retarded, or would this not be reasonable for everyone?

(people arguing from a position of Muh Killing Is Always Wrong need not respond)

>>515279516
> sometimes these people can find Jesus

Fuck, man, enough with this infinitely merciful, turn the other cheek, give 1 million chances bullshit. That’s what got us to where we’re at now. “Oh the poor baby, he just needs Jesus and opportunities”

The blackpill is that we are all godless heathen niggers when left to our own devices, allowed to pursue the limits of our self-interest without restriction. I’ve never robbed a bank, but not because I’m such a good guy. It’s cause bank robbery is coupled to death/imprisonment, and I don’t want those things. Simple as. Absent a gun to your head, why work to buy a house when you can just kill a guy and live in his house? Why court a girl when you can just kidnap her?

But anyways, about culture and rap music, do you not think there is something in blacks (we’re talking about blacks obv) that makes them take very well to a certain type of culture? After all, genes do hold culture on a leash. I’m increasingly starting to see black culture as just blacks in their lowest energy state, left to their own devices without a custodian. Blacks + first world amenities + gibs + guns + hands-off = current American black culture.

>>515285561
Also on the question of whether the state should have the right - all countries already have this power to varying degrees. I don't even see it as a question if your state (or especially if your state is) a representative democracy.

>>515278565
This is a great post. I agree, however I do also think the death penalty does have indispensable value as a deterrent.

In the first paragraph, I already had an idea of what kinds of people you’re talking about, and then the 2nd paragraph confirmed it for me. You’re talking about the videos out of Africa, Mexico, and Central America that are frequently posted in webm threads. Those videos radicalized me beyond comprehension. Unironically, billions must die.

>>515277607
There is no empirical evidence that suggests it isn't a deterrent. There is also a weird disconnect here. Revenge and justice don't NEED to be deterrents.

>>515275877 (OP)
Kill all criminals. Any crime in which you willingly turn someone else into a victim should be considered capital crimes. This extends to pajeet scammers trying to steal old people's money. There are 9 billion people. That's too many to be concerned with killing off the dregs of society. Let them all burn.

>>515285561
All good ideas. Though I don’t think this:
> 1. Well, if the suspect didn't meet the Overwhelming Guilt threshold, should they be in prison at all?
presents any real dilemma, since there is greater latitude for error in wrongfully sentencing someone to prison vs death. You have way more room to fuck up, cause like you said, you have the chance to catch it in the future and try to make things right. Can’t right wrongs with a corpse.

>>515280925
It's not about getting them to think about it, you stupid nigger. It's about stopping them from ever doing anything bad again. That's how it's a deterrent. If you start killing all the criminals then pretty soon there won't be any left.

>>515275877 (OP)
>virtually useless.
Revolving door violent offenders is "useless," to having a functioning society, faggot.
Make criminals afraid to offend, let alone repeat offend is the answer.

>>515285815
> There is no empirical evidence that suggests it isn't a deterrent

It can kind of be thought of a logic puzzle or something like that. “What will have the most consistent and forcing modifying effect on a creature’s behavior?”. The answer will be “that which threatens his highest biological imperative, that can not be sacrificed for lower-order imperatives”. Aka death. There’s a reason the saying is “gun to your head” and not something else. The point is that you don’t have a choice because you can not negotiate with your self-preservation instincts.

>>515280422
>vengeance can not bring closure
>see, my book made to keep people docile says so!
Fuck your holy book and fuck you. There is nothing sweeter in this world than justified vengeance.

>>515286177
Your confusing deterrent with incapacity. The deterrent effect that a punishment has is that it stops you from doing the thing in the first place. Incapacity is locking someone up after they’ve just murdered someone, to render them physically incapable of killing ever again. Incapacity matters only after deterrence has failed.

>>515286408
Why not combine the two in a brutal work camp that slaves them all day and forces them to eat their own shit to survive?

>>515286408
Yeah, great point if these niggers were only ever committing one crime but they don't. They commit multiple crimes, you retard. It deters them from committing more crimes because they are now fucking dead. Thanks for attending my ted talk.

>>515275877 (OP)
More often, and make it a public spectacle. Have one day every quarter where a park is decorated to celebrate the ending of evil lives. Then publicly hang them. Live stream it too.

>>515275877 (OP)
its giga retarded
>sentaced to death
>stays in prison for next 20years until execution
ffs if you gonna execute people just do it tomorrow

>>515275877 (OP)
I have flip-floped on my position of the death penalty. Sometimes for sometimes against it.
Sometimes i think its more ethical to just kill a person than to make them suffer 40 years in a prison. Its more merciful.l somehow. To both the victim and the criminal.
But i only like certain execution methods.
Moderns methods like eletric chair or injection feel very distopian.
A good military execution with bullets is fine and dandy and perhaps even helps society from time to time.
Anyway that conflicts eith my religion and basic humanistic principles.

>>515287126
>and basic humanistic principles
So it's better for humanity to keep violent sociopaths alive while their victims don't get to keep living? How is that not a complete inversion of what it means to care about humanity? You only care about the worst of humanity and pretend it's good for everyone. You're a retard, is what I'm saying.

>>515277343
Good point.
Both the 4 witnesses and the woman should have gotten the death penalty in that case. Now thats justice.

>>515286638
The nigger is committing his first “stab random person on a train” crime because the nigger knows he’s not going to be killed for it. Dumb as he may be, he is still an animal whose sole imperative is to stay alive and he will do anything to ensure that, including refraining from stabbing random people on a train. I refer you to an excerpt from a previous post of mine (>>515283728)
> Do you think niggers would rob and loot and prey on innocents if everytime a nigger did that, they were dragged into the street and summarily shot, and the video circulated on social media into every other nigger’s feed? “Deez ypipo ain’t playin’, sheeeit.”

The niggers (all of nigger-kind) must have foreknowledge of the fate that awaits them if they forget they’re not in Africa anymore. And since they are stupid, struggle with abstractions, and their time horizon is short, the executions must be public and administered quickly after the crime has been committed and sentence handed down. (It’s just not the same as dragging out an execution 20-30 years then doing it via lethal injection behind closed doors.) So if you did that, Pretty soon, nigger crime will drop to zero, and it’s not cause they’re all dead, it’s cause now they know not to fuck with people and steal shit.

>>515287526
I'd rather them all be dead, to be honest.

>>515287126
> basic humanistic principles.

These ought to be extended only to friends and in-group, not universally to literally everyone. It’s also easier on the mind, you won’t find yourself paralyzed with indecision. “Oh the bad guy is doing a bad thing, but I can’t kill him because Muh human family.”

>>515287250
Idk how to awser you.
I was just mainly trying to reflect the culture/society that i grew up in.
Do you have death penalty in your state?
Death penalty feels like a medieval concept nowadays and you have to understand i live in a country where the max prison sentence is 25 and is rarely applied, we dont even have prison for life. At most you get 20 and if you do good behavior you get out with 15 even if you killed like 3 people. You have to understand where im coming from.
Its hard for me to even grasp how such a radical position would be acepted where i live. We are moving towards Nordic model not American model of justice at least that was the goal a few years back. Nowadays im not so sure what with all the ideological confusion going on in the world.

>>515287888
No, my state doesn't. My state doesn't even have cash bail, just like the shithole the train stabbing went down in. I just think it's better to kill criminals before they get a chance to commit worse crimes. Criminals usually build up to murder. They don't just start killing people first thing. You kill someone who robbed another person and they don't have a chance to get bad enough to murder. That's how it prevents crime, by killing everyone who would choose to commit it.

the death penalty has never been an effective deterrent because the people who commit capital crimes are low iq retards who think "I'll never get caught," if they think at all. the purpose of execution as punishment is to permanently remove people from society who had been judged to be unable to live within it.

>>515275877 (OP)
TND
TKD

>>515288367
it eliminates the problem
that is reason enough

>>515288063
I get it. But there are some crimes where its diferent. Depends on the motivation. Like terrorrism/political killings. There is no deterrant for that if the person is motivated enough. Same for passionate crimes and things done the moment.
>>515280925
Take the Anders Breivik guy since there is a norwegion. Doesnt he deserve a death penalty? He killed like 70 people. But he was politicaly motivated and for politics are are usualy lauded here. He can only die once but he killed lots of people so there is litle justice to be done there. And yet the dude is alive and living a better life as a prisioner than many free 3rd worlders? Is the world just? Norway certanly seems a better society than America in my view.

>>515288367
It deters people from committing multiple crimes (because they are dead). Imagine how our world would look if george floyd was executed after he pointed a loaded gun at a pregnant woman's belly.

Sure just make it death by firing squad or guillotine even, anything else is inhumane.

>>515284147
think of all of the dumb niggers who commit suicide by cop trying to resist arrest. they can't even think 5 minutes into the future. if "stop or I'll shoot" doesn't get through to them nothing will.

It's useless because they don't use it anymore. With how long death row lasts, it might as well just be life in prison.

just a couple of days ago a man was released after being in prison for 27 years for murder he didn't commit
the murder was actually committed by one of the witnesses in the trial
if you are pro death penalty you are basically saying you are stupid enough to believe the justice system is infallible

>>515288795
Did the witness who lied about it have priors? Most people don't start at murder.

>>515275877 (OP)
Compared to being locked away for a decade or more I think the death penalty is more merciful

>>515288606
NTA. True, some crimes you simply can’t prevent. Things where your instincts and impulses get the better of you (man kills cheating wife and/or her new bf) and other times where the penalty of death is acceptable, where you go into it knowing you won’t survive. Politically motivated criminals/assassins are a good example. But it does take some insanely strong conviction to sacrifice your life for something. Think of how many tens of millions of people hate trump and would love nothing more than his death. Now think that there’s only been ONE attempt on his life. Only one person whose conviction was strong enough that he thought it’s a good idea to gamble his life away if it means the end of orange man bad.

>>515275877 (OP)
Test

>>515275877 (OP)
Everything good we used to have has been taken by jews for private monetary gain. We gave up the death penalty for private prisons and life sentence paid by taxpayers. And yes jews they pretend to be white and infest our government.

>>515275877 (OP)
It's not about deterring crime, it's about getting rid of proven chaotic and evil people who are no good for the world.

>>515288795
Read the thread. The possibility of condemning an innocent man to death is the number one reservation anons have about the death penalty. It is consensus that should the death penalty be applied, it ought to be applied very conservatively. You’ve found a man’s sperm inside a child’s anus, or you’ve found a severed head in a guy’s trunk. Shit like that. Very few people otherwise have any compunction about executing murderers or whatever.

>>515275877 (OP)
Death is not a penalty, it is the natural consequence. Dieing or being killed can be a penalty, but being comfortable and painlessly put to death is spitting in the face to people suffering for years in hospital beds, unable to communicate, forgotten and in pain.
Locking somebody up and putting them under total control is a punishment. Make them suffer to live and have a little bit of hope.

>>515275877 (OP)
Genesis 9:6 KJV
Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

>>515275877 (OP)
SC will show you how it's done. An old co-worker is about to get it. When he got arrested, the sheriffs were recommending firing squad. Nigger was a serial killer who worked at landscaping companies to target old white women.

>>515288795
Typical bong comes in with a half baked opinion showing he hasnt read the thread and doesnt understand the conversation

>>515289116
There's 9 billion fucking people on earth. We've got some room for error. What's the difference between killing an innocent man you wrongfully thought committed a crime and letting a criminal shithead kill an innocent man? Other than one will be much more humane than the other.

>>515275877 (OP)
the death penalty needs to be expanded to include more crimes

>>51528928
Its like they say in law school. Better to convict 9 innocent persons than let a single criminal walk free.

>>515289561

Holy shit a based leafposter.

>>515289628
Answer my question. What is the difference between convicting an innocent man to death and letting a criminal shithead convict an entire innocent family to death besides the criminal being much more brutal in their methods?

The death penalty will never be restored like it used to because prisons lobby for its removal. It makes them a lot more money to keep prisoners than to kill them.

>>515288913
apparently he gave up drugs and got religion
now he believes that god will forgive him for murdering someone and throwing someone else under the bus for it
>>515289116
all guilty verdicts are equal in the eyes of the law
>>515289265
go fuck yourself cleetus

>>515290117
I don't care what happened after. I said priors. Did the witness in question have prior crimes he could have been sentenced to death for committing? My guess is that he did. Like I said, most criminals don't start at fucking murder.

>>515289825
Man i was just memeing.
If you dont believe in objective morality there is no diference i guess. But there is a diference in being a state doing it and a criminal doing it. Its like the terrosrism argument for Israel. I dont care that Hamas kills people because they are a terrorist organization but a state should be held to higher standars. When you have states behaving like criminals than whats the fucking point. A state condeming an inocent person to the death is something that gives me great aversion. Im anarchistic by nature so i tend to excuse humans killing one another but when its an organized power its diferent at least to me and thats how i see it. I guess thats a very good argument anarchist/liberal argument for limiting the power of the state. I think you will find very few people agreeing with your position.

>>515289825
You asked that question to me, not him. The difference is that one is caused by me/the judge/executioner, etc, thus making us killers.

but there is a balancing act there where if you don’t have the death penalty, you get +x more annual murders, but then if you do apply the death penalty, you get fewer murders but you sentence a couple innocent men to death. I’m not sure how to go about thinking about this in a mathematical way. But idk why you’re arguing with me in the first place, I’m not against the death penalty, not at all. I just think it ought to be applied to only the most serious crimes, and where the guilt of the suspect is certain. and maybe even less serious crimes if it’s a nigger doing it. Reason being that the niggers are different animals and require a different approach to produce the same behavior you’d expect from others. Maybe you have to threaten them with death to keep them from shoplifting, whereas some other groups can be threatened with a fine, or nothing at all. Idk. The important thing though is to let it be known to them that we are not fucking around, that it’s the early 1900s again where whitey is lynching niggers.

>>515290421
Yeah, because stupid faggots don't want to see the forest for the trees. All you dumb fags are doing is trading one innocent death for another. Every time I leave my house, I have a chance of being sentenced to death by some criminal scumbag. I would rather the state cast a wide net and remove all criminals from society at the cost of a few innocents than let criminals choose which innocent people they think should fucking die. Anyone wrongfully convicted was at least near the smoke of a crime. What did dorothy dow do to deserve what she got?

>>515290467
There's literally no difference in killing an innocent man wrongfully accused of a crime and letting a criminal kill an innocent man/woman/child from your own negligence. You just don't want to consider the second example being your fault as well.

Bring back death by cannon.

>>515275877 (OP)
>but now it seems virtually useless.
Well yea, duh! A couple things I'd like to say. The appeals process must be streamlined tremendously. Its ridiculous to condemn someone to death and then tax payers have to pay their bills for the next 30 years while they wait to die. We need to bring back and expand execution by firing squad, and we need to use it for things like actual treason or comforting an enemy at a time of war. The only thing im apprehensive about is critics of the govt being sent to the wall on droves, as is the case with most commie revolutions. The solution would probably be trials facilitated and judgments handed down by the state, while We The People preform the executions.

>>515290650
Interesting argument desu even if i dont quite agree with you at least its interesting prespective.
And also i had to look up Ms. Dorothy Dow but you could have just used the very recent example of the ukrainian girl on the bus. How do you arrieve at such conclusions? You must have a very different life than mine. Do you see death often or something? You work as a police officer? I dont think i ever saw violent crime only on Tv or internet. Its not big on my list of priorities, glad i live in a yet safe country.

You can’t hold the citizens to a higher standard than The State.
If it is acceptable for The State to kill, then its people will normalize and reflect this violence.

>>515291208
So it doesn't matter because you hadn't heard of it? There are countless innocent people dying every day because we are soft on crime. Why not let the criminals start dying for a change?

>>515275877 (OP)
I'd say, "no", because states are corrupt - politics and personal agendas go before justice.
But in a perfectly just world, I would say "yes".

>>515275877 (OP)
Against it.
Now I'm not against defending yourself against a threat like someone breaking into your house or whatever, but the government is untrustworthy at the best of times.

Several times in the last year people went viral for having been wrongly arrested and it took family members investigating the crimes to exonerate them because the police couldn't even do the most basic of research.

It's basically a requirement for keeping the peace in a society divided by ethnic outbursts of violence. So no. No, it's not going to happen.

>>515291713
>States are corrupt
>So criminals should decide which innocents need to die
Make it make sense.

>>515291798
>Several times in the last year people went viral for having been wrongly arrested
And how many people were wrongfully killed by criminals allowed to remain on the streets because of our soft on crime stance? More than several?

>>515292232
>we should let the state kill people because people who commit lesser crimes might kill others!!!
Damn, if only there was something between executing someone and letting them go free for a crime, but we unfortunately live in the autistics binary problem.

>>515276110
Of course it was a deterrent. Thats why settlements in the middle of nowhere could flourish in the pioneering days.

>>515292412
>Life is precious!
>1.5 billion indians
Pick one

>>515275877 (OP)
Bring back public haning.

Make it absolutely required (the only pusnihsment) for government officials.

>>515275877 (OP)
>>515275877 (OP)
>>515275877 (OP)
What you dont understand is that amerimutts are obsessed with death, killing, mutilation and hurting others. That's why it's the only first world country in the world to have legal slavery built into its constitution for prisoners. Why we all worship snuff gore on movies and TV and claim its a hobby to do so. Why mutts literally kneel in "respect" to military zogbots who shoot kids sleeping. Its a cultural thing. See >>515276026
Anon isn't even being ironic.
One of the many reasons im leaving once the police give my passport back

>>515275877 (OP)
>It used to be an effective tool for deterring crime
Stopped reading there. The point of death penalty is getting rid of the problem for good. Not deter.

>>515292638
It deters them from committing further crimes (because they are dead).

>>515275877 (OP)
No to death penalties except when the evidence is extremely clear cut, like that knifing that everyone is up in arms about.
That nog should get the same he gave that girl, but slower.

Kill everyone against death penalty
problem solved

For people like the dude who stabbed that Ukrainian girl, the death penalty should be public and expedient. It should be for when there is no doubt as to the guilt of the person.

>>515276276
It's the public executing people who have committed the worst crimes against the public. The government would just be acting on our behalf

Go sit in a private room for 30 years and when you are old you are humanely put to sleep. That isn't punishment. No death penalty go stay in this building for a set number of years and have free room board medical mental health dental care job training education a job and play spades with friends. That isn't punishment. It usually a better quality of life than they had. Shoot the worst of the worst on a rocket to the sun. Or better yet, make abortion easier so common it's like taking a Tylenol so shit humans stop spawning on the planet. I suspect they are supposed to be here and the majority. No rule 4b section 2-8 of subsection br549 is going to change that at all. Perhaps the old American west was the best way.

>>515275877 (OP)
100% proven 1st degree murder or intentionally killing innocent people should be 5 years in maximum security prison then execution.

>>515293049
You are a kike. You know who isn't having abortions? India, china and africa. Anyone advocating abortions just wants to genocide whites.

>>515276964
There is a clear difference in executing a murderer and executing a burglar. You will be hard pressed to find many people who would support that. Sure, slippery slopes exist but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do something like death sentences.
A death sentence should be used for obvious guilt of murder or serial rape.

Only for blacks and Indians (public viewing with tomatoes handed out to the audience)

Mr jingles gets the rope too

>>515293247
Any crime with an aggrieved party should result in summary execution. I'm tired of living in a world of criminals.

>>515293353
You should kill burglars. They broke the social contract so they should be killed. Is it any worse to kill someone than it is to deprive them of things they need to live?

>>515277607
It's only expensive due to the court costs for appeals and shit like that.
If we find someone unequivocally guilty of something like murder, a good rope or bullet is really cheap and does the trick.

>I think the government is incompetent, corrupt and works against my best interests
>I also believe it should have the right to kill me
See pic.
>b-b-b-but it will work when the government is LE GOOD, trust me bro!!!
See pic.
Vigilante lynchings are okay, though.

>>515294206
Yeah, let's let criminals decide who should die and not the government beholden to at least some sort of rules. That sounds like a great society.

>>515294371
>government
>beholden to at least some sort of rules

>>515294464
More than the criminal scum who will pull out a knife and murder you and your family at a whim, you dumb fuck. At least the government doesn't execute literal children like criminals do every fucking day, you absolute dipshit.

>It used to be an effective tool for deterring crime,
I'm not aware of any people put to death and it carried out that committed any crimes afterward. Because they are dead.

>>515294541
Your tiny monkey brain can't imagine a society where everyone is armed and is ready to kill any aggressor at a moment's notice, even when it was an essential part of your own history.
The "Wild" West was pretty tame and safe because of this.
Frontier justice works.

>>515294740
>People didn't famously get shot in the back constantly in the old west
Ok retard

>>515275877 (OP)
Yes but only for niggers.

>>515294822
No, they didn't. You're just a seething bootlicker.

>>515275877 (OP)
Sgrol Ba, my guy.

>>515275877 (OP)
I say keep it, but save it for the really, really depraved criminals.

>>515294938
They did, constantly, criminal apologist shithead. I'd rather leave my life in the hands of the government than some violent nigger who decided to kill me that day. Again, you haven't refuted the fact that government will only kill innocent men and sometimes women while criminals will kill small children and the elderly as well.

>>515275877 (OP)
Bring back public executions

>>515292604
based and realitypilled. they aren't people, none of them are sentient. avoid them all, find a life alone for yourself.

>>515275877 (OP)
Yes to death penalty

>>515275877 (OP)
>state power of life and death bad (abortion either way, conscription)

Weregild + having the bereaved/next of kin do the honors vitiates the above largely: as long as it's them pressing the buttons, yanking the trap door ect., the State's just the consequences escrow service.

>>515295182
Why do you want big daddy government to do it for you when you can ride out with your posse and do it yourself?

>>515275877 (OP)
Whether the death penalty is a deterrent or not, its definitely a solution for getting blacks out of society. So I encourage it. Death penalty should be give far more often, and with no more than a day or two on death row before being hung drawn and quartered.

>>515275877 (OP)
If an animal is randomly starting shit, you put it down. Simple as.
Some animals' simple existence endanger the life of actual human beings, they will kill at one point or another

>>515295555
>Government bad
>Death squads good
Still ignoring the fact government doesn't kill children while criminals do every day. Who do you trust to have better judgement of your life? The government or some violent nigger?

>>515295670
>Who do you trust to have better judgement of your life? The government or some violent nigger?
Neither. I can only trust myself and my local community to keep the peace.

>>515277074
Crime rates in the past were much higher than today. Medieval western Europe had the same murder rate as modern South America or even higher.

>>515295721
Shut the fuck up, retard. We have 43 states with more people than your entire country and you want to act like you can tell us how we should act? Go fuck yourself.

>>515275877 (OP)
The only problem with the death penalty has always been if you convict the wrong pwrson. But in cut and dry cases like the NC Ukranian girl incident, it should be a mandatory death penalty. And none of that faggy waiting 10 year then lethal injection, just firing squad in the courtroom as soon as the sentence is given.

>>515284147
Norway also has a much lower recidivism rate compared the the US, so it seems their methods reduce crime more than yours

>>515296020
You're still only convicting men whereas if you let criminals do what they want they will kill the elderly and small children as well. It's no different than being drafted and going to die. You're giving your life for the greater good of society in both cases.

>>515296059
How many niggers does norway have?

>>515275877 (OP)
While i like the idea of the death penalty, the world is imperfect so I cannot support it.
a lifetime sentence with labor is a perfectly fine sentence for the most heinous crimes.

>>515296165
In any case someone will die. The difference is who is going to exact justice: a corrupt, incompetent regime or armed locals.
The locals have far more skin in the game than some faraway bureaucrats.

>>515296575
I'll go with the one that ostensibly has rules to follow, you stupid nigger. What happens when the nigger community decides to form a posse and enact its justice? You haven't thought of this for even a second, have you?

>>515296695
You're forced to live side by side with niggers because the government took away your freedom of association as well as your ability and will to defend yourselves.
You're just looking for a solution to keep this status quo afloat, so I'm guessing you like living among them.

>>515297018
I'm literally advocating for capital punishment for even the pettiest of crimes. How the fuck am I in favor of the status quo?

>>515297068
>How the fuck am I in favor of the status quo?
How are you not? You're deepthroating the boot.

>>515275877 (OP)
There's a lot of cases where it's fucking open and shut. I believe the world record for a hanging is something like 12 seconds from cell to dead, but there's always room for improvement.

>>515297158
I'd rather deepthroat the boot than the nigger dick you seem to love to suck off.

>>515275877 (OP)
forced labor is more effective

>>515292638
it also deters plenty of others from doing it

>>515297571
Didn't do a fucking thing about kikes though did it.

>>515275877 (OP)
Imagine this. Only a killer knows where the body is. When they know they will get life in prison anyway they have no incentive to reveal what happend to the victim, its last moments and where the body is. But if you put death penalty on the table they usually take a deal and reveal everything.

>>515297631
They are destroying Europe because we forced them to turn some screws on V1 and V2, so it's effective, simply never release or let anyone escape.
Every non European White is hereby guilty and sentenced to forced labor in French Guyana.

>>515275877 (OP)
Every law every made has been at one point or another, bent, broke, or violated to harm or incarcerate innocent people whether for the interest of the state or its corrupt publics servants, or criminal organizations.

If you could somehow ensure for a fact %100 this would not or could not happen with full transparency, then having the death penalty would just a easy way for the state and its cronies to eliminate threats to its power to use and abuse you at will.

>>515297721
Okay, and?

>>515297776
That doesn't seem very simple. Rope is simple.
Look at it this way, if they'd just had Napoleon shot first time around, would that have been more effort than Waterloo?

>>515275877 (OP)
It's not very different than MAID health care.

>>515297969
>ensure for a fact %100
This has never been the standard, and if it were we'd NOT HAVE A BUNCH OF FUCKING JEET NIGGER RAPISTS GETTING FERRIED AROUND IN LITTLE FUCKING BOATS AND SHIT

Maybe in a state with a truly benevolent government, but good luck finding one of those. Imagine it in my country:
>Big Bazza makes an anti-immigration post on Facebook
>"off to the gallows for you m8!"
>Ahmed rapes and murders a 12 year old girl
>"he was just depressed because a man was racist to him on the internet. 2 years in prison and a few months community service."

>>515275877 (OP)
The death penalty is no more of a deterrent than a lifetime prison sentence. I don't trust the government with that power.

>>515275877 (OP)
Immediately carried out after sentencing for murder, I see no reason someone who has taken someone else’s life should get to keep theirs. Anything else, I don’t think it’s appropriate and is a slippery slope. If someone’s victims are still alive perhaps they should have to work in prison to earn compensation money to be paid to their victims.

>>515275877 (OP)
Problem with the death penalty is that our justice system is flawed. If you mistakenly give someone life in prison, and find exculpatory evidence 20 years later, you can let them free. They won't get those years of their life back, but they'll still be able to live out the remainder of their life free. You can't undo death though.

Also, life in prison isn't exactly a mercy. Prison, at least in the US, is kind of... hell.

>>515298560
>Also, life in prison isn't exactly a mercy. Prison, at least in the US, is kind of... hell.
I was thinking the same thing actually. Those mass shooters usually an hero afterwards, so for plenty of criminals the death sentence would probably be preferable, especially since most people no longer believe in an afterlife with a metaphysical reward/punishment system.

Death is not scary if you are in Hell.

>>515275877 (OP)
instead of making the life of an absolute niggers living hell you're letting them have it easily
look at the other countries that has it - besides Japan they are ALL in niggerland.
What DO YOU think ?

>>515298880
based. this is why russia has penal battalions. better to die in dubious glory than live in prison. western prisons are just hotels for lazy fags. need to make them way harsher to increase the voluntary deportations, and also lots of public executions, to provide entertainment for the masses and deter crime among the parasitical elite, who are the ones who really fear the death penalty.

>>515298768
You can't just kill people because they do something you don't like. That's why we have this whole rule of law thing.

Death penalty is too easily abused to silence political opponents.
The ruling class already have it easy. They don't need ability to kill anyone they don't like without effort.

>>515284147
It's not. Those who commit violent crimes are impulsive and of low executive functioning. A lot have brain damage or severe mental illness, and a lot have no regard for life, including their own. There's no "life in prison versus death penalty", there's just "my life will be over". They would never have an internal calculus resembling anything like that.
>You think this will not have a deterrent effect?
In that hypothetical reality, yes maybe it would deter someone once in a blue moon. However you'd be going from executing an innocent person every tenth time to every other time. You wouldn't be reducing the deaths of innocents you'd just change who is doing the killing.

And people from my country should chime into this more than anyone. After all we have the most effective prison system in the entire world.

>>515286177
Life in prison stops them from doing anything bad again.

>>515288606
Breivik deserved to not be born into a sick household and be failed by child protective services. For the state to kill someone after failing them to such an extent would be disgusting. The last thing it can do is provide them with a comfortable and peaceful life to live out the rest of their years.

>>515275877 (OP)
They need to apply it to more crimes. Criminals need to be eliminated

>>515276656
>executed in under a year
if you're seen doing it and there is no chance of innocence, you should be dragged from the court room immediately and dispatched with a ball peen hammer

>>515292604
>we
>all
post discarded

>>515275877 (OP)
They should carry it the next day out on the delivery of a guilty verdict for murder and other egregious crimes and it should be done publicly and violently.

Jews have subverted this system while they murder their way across the globe and call it "complicated".

Start violently executing criminals and put the executions up on television and social media.

>>515275877 (OP)
>Should it be utilized more often
This one, and we should forget about modern ways of doing it, breaking wheel is the way to make people reconsider being a criminal. Make the benefit / risk ratio unbearable.

What id a Noto death penalty? Sounds exotic and fun. Let's give it to that fucker