Thread 519052351

The US isn't only turning corn into fuel they do it to goybeans too.

we're saving it all for the strategic popcorn reserves

>>519052424
That sounds to me like the US Government is subsidizing popcorn traders.

>>519052351 (OP)
Biodiesel has the same energy density and power as conventional diesel. The traditional method for producing biodiesel uses methanol, but 99% ethanol is significantly more effective when combined with seed oils. Additionally, biodiesel can be used in standard diesel engines, which is a major advantage.

Bio-diesel and bio-propane should be the future of US and EU energy.

>>519052720
Meh it’s not energy efficient as it stands.

>>519052424
>>519052473

Ethanol doesn't even require corn at all. All it takes is water, sugar and yeast. Even boiling isn't needed anyway since freeze distillation is a thing.

>>519052351 (OP)
are goybeans going to be like cheap race gas like corn ethanol? imagine being a man and complaining that you can buy race fuel for under $2 a gallon instead of fucking $15 a gallon. if you have a problem with this i genuinely think you should kill yourself

>>519052831
Bio-diesel stands at 41MJ/L and Diesel stands at 44MJ/L. Its comparable and bio-diesel is cheap as fuck if made right.

>>519052720
And what does growing food take?

I highly doubt biodiesels are a viable fuel source unless you're plowing fossil fuel products into their production (fertilizer and diesel).

>>519052942
>imagine complaining about the hoses rotting out of your engine
Who needs to imagine?

>>519053007
No I’m saying it takes more energy to make a gallon of ethanol. It’s like 1.2-1.5 gallons of fuel to make a gallon of biofuel.

>>519053007
>comparable and bio-diesel is cheap as fuck if made right.
You are talking about using waste oil right? What if you are growing beans to turn into bio-diesel?

>>519053022
All it takes is seed oil or Palm oil (even used cooking oil works but less efficient), pure 100 percent ethanol or methanol (less green) and sodium hydroxide to mix them and incorporate.

what would be more efficient, 1000 acres of corn into biodisesel or 1000 acres of solar panels into electric into electric vehicles?

>>519052351 (OP)
We can turn niggers, jews and women into gas too.

>>519053102
Nope. Freeze distillation makes the progress super green. It doesn't take heating at all.

>>519053212
Mighty fine process energy analysis, eurotard.

>>519053138
>waste oil right?

Waste oil makes it less efficient. Palm oil and Sunflower oil is easier to make and it's cheaper.

>>519052720
This. The only problem I had using E85 is that they jack up the cost so you are spending the same amount per MPG as you do with gasoline. So there was virtually no financial incentive to use it

>>519053496
>E85

That's some shit wtf. It's easier to use it all the way. Ethanol being added to diesel would fuck up the engine and makes it degrade faster.

>>519053340
It’s not just distillation it’s everything that goes into making and processing the feedstock being used

>>519052351 (OP)
shart powered suvs when

>>519053816
As long as it takes less resources to produce than diesel, it's fine don't you think?

How about the water that's used to make ethanol comes from sea water desalination?

>>519052351 (OP)
The ford model T was originally designed to run on peanut oil, but Standard had other ideas.

>>519052720
Follow the money nigger.
Cheap biofuel aka ethanol isnt viable because of liquor taxes.>>519052720

>>519054072
Then change the laws, lil nigger

>>519054000
That’s the problem, it uses more fuel than it makes. At least it does last time I looked into it like 5 years ago.

>>519053816
This appears to be bait, m8.
>>519054000
>let's introduce another expensive energy tail into our system

>>519052720
>EU energy
EU energy future is letting Ukraine go down the drain and then hooking back up to mother Russia's fat oily tits.

>>519053070
imagine not dailying a 1200whp car. it will only rot hoses on fairly old cars at this point. nothing that you'd really want to drive would have a issue

>>519054322
Russian oil and Saudi Oil won't be a thing if we produce bio-diesel and scale it up worldwide.

>>519053102
>No I’m saying it takes more energy to make a gallon of ethanol. It’s like 1.2-1.5 gallons of fuel to make a gallon of biofuel.
What the USA is doing is converting their abundant natural gas into liquid fuel....
They use large amounts of ammonia made from natural gas as a nitrogen source for the corn.
The corn grows. Then the corn is harvested and shipped to the refinery. Then the alcohol is distilled using, again, natural gas.

You can essentially look at it, as stated above, a conversion of natural gas to liquid fuel to help offset the use of oil. It doesn't really make much sense using it otherwise.

>>519052351 (OP)
Biofuel is the most retarded concept ever conceived of.
>plants 1% efficient
>Solar 22% efficient
We should just be doing power to liquid

>>519054570
Yeah thats why we do it but from a purely technical standpoint it doesn’t really make sense to do standalone.

>>519054570
But you can convert natural gas to liquid and burn it in engines, too. This is the biggest reason it doesn't really make sense any which way.

>>519054268
This is because environmentalists would protest if we used fresh water, since it would deplete it, similar to what AI data centers do. At least desalination would quiet them down.

But I do agree, the main goal is to make a profit.

>>519054523
>bio-diesel
Unprofitable same as hydrogen.

>>519054755
what do you mean standalone? you mean in an environment without abundant cheap natural gas?

>>519054738
It's to subsidize farmers who are an important voting bloc, you should know how things work there

>>519054818
I didn't say that, well poisoner.

>>519054570
Corn industry is a scam. Mexico has way better sugar cause they have all the sugarcanes. I would bring down the cost and the process of making bio-diesel would be simple.

>>519054876
Yeah, in a world with oil and natural gas available. If we go back to the Stone Age and the only way to make fuel is harvesting stuff by hand and making a dozen gallons then it also makes sense.

>>519053007
>if made right
That ship sailed about two decades ago.

The farming lobby in the US is one of the most powerful lobbying group in Congress. They used their sway to pass laws dictating that ethanol has to be sourced from specific crops. The crops used are all terrible sources apropos the quantity of fuel produced per hectare of land. Corn is one of the absolute worst sources in this regard. Goybeans are terrible as well. Some state governments mandate that all biofuel produced in their states come from those types of crops.

As deep water drilling really took off in the mid 2000’s it killed the idea of biofuel as a main source.

>>519055042
In such a case bio diesel makes more sense. Alone the need for a molecular sieve to dry the ethanol makes things difficult for ethanol in such a situation.

>>519054924
we should get them to grow something else. There are plenty of things that would benefit from a price drop

>>519055364
That a hard thing to drive, infrastructure is already setup pretty well for corn

>>519052351 (OP)
This is fucking retarded. It makes no sense to turn food into fuel. Why don't you instead turn shit into fuel? You should at least eat the food first.

>>519052831
what the fuck do you mean we produce so much corn its too much. we might as well use our excess to make the cost of energy go down. hell we should be using Hydrogen more as well atleast for things that isnt cars.

>>519054963
You literally said it's expensive to do desalination in a negative way.

>>519054072
Don't you have something like, industry alkohol that is free from liquor taxes?

>>519055555
Producing hydrogen has very low efficiency.

>>519055124
>Farming lobby

It's oil lobby. Every senator gets a cut.

>>519055364
They're all set up for their monocrops

biofuels are crap and degrade your engine's seals significantly

>>519057346
Yeah when you do it with cheap quality oil and methanol

>>519052351 (OP)
What goes goybean whiskey taste like?

>>519057853
I think its crushed for oil. Are there sugars in it?

>>519057853
It has traces of methanol to it.

>>519057800
how about we eat corn and use petroleum for fuel.

>>519052720
US still has tons of oil underneath it, so I guess they'll deplete that first, no reason not to. Seriously, US is the most blessed country on Earth, built by God to be the world empire it is today (and will continue to be). Oceans on both sides defending them from enemies far away, Canada is basically just America in denial, Mexico is not really a problem. Mississippi River system gave Americans MASSIVE comercial advantage in its early days, massive flat deserts to build things on top of it unencumbered with massive amounts of oil and gas underneath.
Anyone going against America is just delusional, they got the big stick and know how to swing it, it's over.

>>519060129
How about using natural gas for heating instead of making electricity.

>>519060512
>How about using natural gas for heating instead of making electricity.
We have so much fucking gas it's unreal.
we can use it for both and have enough for a thousand years.
They use to just release it or burn it off we have so much
dumps generate natural gas.
its fucking insane how much natural gas we have.
Natural gas cars should still be a thing.

>>519060622
>we can use it for both and have enough for a thousand years.

>>519052849
great information.

It really does make sense that they did prohibition to corner the market on fuel. no place in capitalism for everyone growing their own food, and using the old food to make fuel. No... instead we need to live our lives with parasites picking at us for our entire lives.

>>519052351 (OP)
Never put E10 in any machine. I repeat do not put ethanol in any machine especially small engines.

>>519060998
Yeah we could DIY it and it would be still perfect. That's the best thing with Bio-diesel.

>>519052720
Biodiesels etc. all bind water much much worse than regular petroleum products. For that reason (among others) they are inherently and materially inferior.

>>519061130
Inferior? how? For using water?

>>519052720
It was tried already. It's not viable.

>>519061017
I just use what the manufacturer recommends. A few years back a friend ran some aviation fuel in his truck because he got it for free and it burned up the piston rings. I wouldn't run hydrogen for the same reason.

>>519060873
>Yglesias
you
have
to
go
back

>>519060622
>Natural gas cars should still be a thing
It is, but they're dangerous https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfEkSfEHNSc

>>519061360
Any fuel that binds water degrades and contaminates an engine.

Also Biofuels also oxidize more readily. They have poor cold weather gelling tendencies and they degrade gaskets/hoses etc. There is a reason you are not supposed to run E10 in small or performance motors.

>>519061398
They did it with corn and corn takes energy to grow making it a loss. It's a corn industry failure and not an bio-diesel one.

>>519052351 (OP)
Biofuels are pointless because it takes more than 1 liter of diesel to make 1 liter of bioethanol.
This is counting the farming machinery, fertilizer, sorting, fermenting, refining etc, but not transportation which is an additional penalty.

>>519061837
I remember hearing that on NPR like 25 years ago. Ethanol production and fuel blending has only increased.

>>519061598
not really, there were Honda NGVs on the streets of California for like 15 years, they're not any more dangerous than having 20 gallons of gasoline

>>519061837
>Biofuels are pointless because it takes more than 1 liter of diesel to make 1 liter of bioethanol

Another oil industry lie. Sugar industry is already in excess and all ethanol is very simple to make and combined with freeze distillation would power the whole world.

Not a single drop of diesel is needed for the whole ethanol production.

>>519062156
just grow less corn nigger
holy shit
grow something else.

>>519062022
First of all who the fuck listens to NPR lol? Second what does the level of mixing have to do with the reality of the fuels' characteristics?

What you think these people give a damn about your engine getting gummed up and having a shorter life? What are you stupid?

>>519061617
Renewable diesel (hydrotreated vegetable oil) has superior cold weather performance to petroleum diesel.

>>519052720
literally Brasil

>>519062627
HVO has less energy density by volume than petroleum, it performs better in the cold because it is less viscous and less dense aka it has worse lubrication qualities than petroleum diesels due to the viscosity and the lubricating agents having been refined out of it. Not to mention it is much more expensive.

>>519062627
This