Thread 520976045

Holy shit

>>520976045 (OP)
Your country is being invaded by pajeets and chinks and all you can think about is other white christians that follow a different denomination.

>>520976219
Yeah cuz they’re retarded. They’re all going to hell anyway I don’t let much bother me in a cosmic sense. I just like to complain.

>>520976045 (OP)
But y tho?

>>520976045 (OP)
The Catholic Church is the Antichrist.

>>520976045 (OP)
Do what your dear leader tells you and accept all the niggers from africa
keep taking in more...yes thats right do it or no magical cookies and special wine for you to eat God with

>>520976045 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50wWV06QhR8

>>520976356
catholics gave you the bible though

>>520976045 (OP)
Roman Catholics are more akin to Irenaeus' definition of Carpocrates than anything Apostles ever were.

>>520976045 (OP)
0/10
no tail

>>520976045 (OP)
Bump jideo and feewmoaans amd heretical gop and uniparty mind rwzfrionntp rheir shit colelcrivizr racially militarized and then slaughter kick the damn door in take what yours salt the godamned earth

>>520976356
The catholic church is christ occasionally they arw lutherna anti pope's that arw protestsnt you go to hell heretic inbred racially subhuman retarded shit

>>520976708
Wrong Ignatius and euseibius knew john and thousands of others there is literally of bishops Cardinals and etc Timothy was pontiff melchizedek and Enoch wrre pontiffs

>>520976307
Catholics should probably learn what their own religion teaches sometime, you and Fuentes and all the other tradcaths are always saying this. “Nope! Salvatiom is only the church! Nope! Protestants are going to hell!” This is not what Catholicism teaches at all. The Catholic priest Leonard Feeney was even excommunicated in 1953 for teaching that.
Catholicism holds that baptisms outside of the Church are valid, which is why as a protestant convert you don’t need to be baptized again. Baptism is the basis for being saved, beyond that you *increase your chances of entering heaven* by doing indulgences and confession and living as a Catholic. You don’t guarantee it any more than a Protestant.
The Church says that Protestants who are accepted by Christ most likely spend some time in purgatory. It is not CATHOLIC OR HELL. You larping casuals should stop trying to speak on religion

>>520976045 (OP)
Kike

>>520976045 (OP)
>>520976307
>>520976356
>>520977734

>>520978092
>Baptism is the basis for being saved
This is literal heresy.
Faith in Christ, his Godhood and sacrifice for our sins, is the ONLY requirement for salvation.

>beyond that you *increase your chances of entering heaven* by doing indulgences and confession and living as a Catholic.
This is literal heresy.
The bible explicitly says that it is IMPOSSIBLE to earn your way into heaven through acts. There is no, "increase your chances," you believe in Christ, or you burn.

>You don’t guarantee it any more than a Protestant.
A christian that believes in Christ's divinity and sacrifice is GUARANTEED heaven, if their faith was real and not merely performative.

>The Church says that Protestants who are accepted by Christ most likely spend some time in purgatory.
>Purgatory.
Not biblical, made the fuck up.

By your definition, either Catholics are anti-biblical pagan heathens who think they can buy their way into heaven with cheap vouchers and recitations, or you are wrong about Catholicism.

>>520976045 (OP)
Protestants are the most miaerable cunts on this planet. Also they consider themselves the hovhest of the whites which is laughable

>>520979791
i'm baptist but i've never in my life said i was the hovhest of the whites

>>520979737
Get zutted Achmed

>>520979820
You probably think it all the time though

>>520976045 (OP)
REMINDER: Protestant Christians:

- Removed 6 books from the Bible, going against Deuteronomy 4:2

- Was founded in King Henry VIII's adultery

- Popularised by German Heretic Luther, famous for instructing Christians to "Go forth and Sin BOLDLY"

- Do not believe in work-based faith, do not believe graceful actions are required to maintain a state of grace (will sin, sin, sin and still believe they are 'saved')

- Had ruptured uncountable heretical denominations that stemmed from protestant thought: Baptists, Evangelicals, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons

- Have no foundational understanding of the Bible, no church fathers, no magisterium, no coordinated theological spine. (Protestants genuinely believe that their own individual interpretation of the Bible is correct, despite having no reference besides themselves. "gospel according to ME".

- Often Refuse to honour Christ's mother, Mary, despite ignoring their own mothers or other people's mothers, refuse to respect Christ's mother.

- Have many churches that have female 'priests', female reverends and pro-LGBT services.

- Yet will claim Catholic church is from the devil.

>>520976045 (OP)
>>520976307
All christcucks suck ass and you're brown.

>>520976045 (OP)
Roman Catholicism is the whore of Babylon, and every Roman Catholic who thinks the pope is "the holy father" has the mark of the beast in his forehead. You are not Christians.

>>520979791
Your pope wants open borders.

God will utterly destroy the Roman church. No matter how much they lie and try to subvert and twist the truth of Christ, or how much they say "I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow..."

Revelation 18:4-8
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

Revelation 17 Part 1: The Woman Rides the Beast
https://youtu.be/301uqf-rjcY
Revelation 18, Part 1: The Destruction of Mystery Babylon, The Woman
https://youtu.be/-ODFK9JXdxU

>>520979676
I’m neither Catholic not Protestant and all you’re doing is elucidating your Protestant difference of opinion with Catholics, which I already know. If one of your denominations is most likely to be correct it’s Catholics however. Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. The Old Testament is full of rules and rites, the New Testament gives the blueprint for how to replace them, not abolish them. Thus, Jesus saying to Peter, on this rock I will build my Church. That is not a throwaway remark, it is an explicit reference to Peter being the head of a new Church. And that’s what followed. The Church was formed with a line of Popes whose authority descends from Peter, as Christ explicitly intended. The Protestant reformation happened many hundreds of years later because a few rogue priests were selling indulgences (this issue was promptly rectified), not on legitimate Scriptural grounds. Martin Luther seized on an opportunity to attack the Church and managed to go viral despite a flimsy basis, and the obviously heretical claim that “every man is Pope of his own house”. What has been the end result? A “church service” where any random dipshit can preach at you to like, be a better person man, while hipsters play a little bit of feel-good Christian rock and everyone gushes about their “personal relationship with God” in which they clearly view him as their personal therapist, errand boy and daddy dom all in one. Compare to the Latin Mass.
For Protestants, everything is debatable and up to interpretation. The main thing is to like, be a good person bro. Be love bro. Hey, you think gay marriage is a sin? Kind of rude, guy. I think Jesus loves everyone, actually. Compare to the Catholic Catechism. It doesn’t matter what hipster retards think. The Magesterium has spoken. Sins are sins.

>>520980015
>dumb protties removed books
catholics have fewer books than some orthodox canons
>dumb protties were created from henry the viii's thing
the protestant reformation was already well underway before the anglican reformation happened
>luther said sin boldly
luther is not my pope or redeemer
>[protestants] do not believe in work-based faith
right
>Baptists, Evangelicals, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons
baptists are evangelicals and jehovah's witnesses/mormons aren't Christian
>[protestants] have no foundational understanding of the bible
pfff
>[protestants] don't honor mary
we love her
>[protestants] have womyn priestesses
yeah it's shameful but my denomination has nothing to do with that
>[protestants] say the catholic church is from the devil
you've done some devilish things but i wouldn't go that far.

>>520976219
He's a kike
Don't feed the kikes you fucking honorary shitskin retard

>>520980752
>Jesus saying to Peter, on this rock I will build my Church. That is not a throwaway remark, it is an explicit reference to Peter being the head of a new Church. And that’s what followed.
if peter was the big infallible bossman, why was paul able to correct and publicly rebuke him?

>>520979676
(cont.) It’s also always the case that Protestants have their own crackpot notions that never would have been allowed to confuse them if they were just Catholics. Any time you look up a Protestant hero like Milton or Newton they’re going off on their own imaginative interpretation of Scripture. Milton is like bro… I bet the soul sleeps until Judgment Day. Newton is denying the Trinity and crossing his eyes three different ways. They’re always like this. You’ll also get the denominations throwing themselves on the ground “speaking in tongues” and Mormons and all the other basket case bullshit. This is why having a Church with authority is important and why Jesus would have wanted one. The Protestant Reformation was a mistake based on an overblown quibble that has had dire consequences for Christianity. Most Protestants are dispensationalist philosemites by the way, which I forgot to mention.

>>520981052
>You’ll also get the denominations throwing themselves on the ground “speaking in tongues”
catholics have charismatics too
>Mormons and all the other basket case bullshit.
mormons are not Christian.

Remember you don't go to church to pray and commune with god

You want shit, is your job, is were your lifestyle support itself

No church you see no money no hot women of your brother to harem no parents to disrespect no golden currency to worship

>>520981157
Anyone claiming to worship Christ is a Christian, Mormonism is not any less valid Protestantism than Calvinism or anything else. If the other Protestants are embarrassing you maybe you shouldn’t be a Protestant!

Jebus

>>520981349
>Anyone claiming to worship Christ is a Christian
mormon "christ" is the brother of lucifer, not the Son of the triune God.

>>520976307

yeah prots are and not the catholics that think Mary is holy, without sin and on equal footing with Jesus Christ. Laughable anon, go pray the rosary

>>520976307
Go deffer to a homsexual pedophile in a robe catholic faggot.
Every worthwhile western country was made by Protestants

>>520976045 (OP)
My problem is that it is sterile Christianity devoid of mystery and depth. It reduces everything to a contractual set up where if you just say you are saved you are rather than insistence on actions and being christlike in ones conduct. At the end of the day Jesus said to Peter "you are the rock on which I will build the church" not "go forth and create thousands of denominations with totally subjective interpretations of scripture"

Don't even get me started on who funded the protestant revolution of 1688 in the UK
>william of orange bankrolled approximately 90 million GBP from an exiled sephardi named Abraham Israel Suasso
>entire army supply lines (food, weaponry, gunpowder and boats) provided by 2 jewish companies
>William of orange later goes on to found the bank of England which is funded by public subscription. I.e. shares. Any guesses on how those rich Jews were paid back?

I fucking hate the house of Hanover so much it's unreal lads. The Jacobites were trying to save us.

>>520983506
>My problem [with protestantism] is that it is sterile Christianity devoid of mystery and depth.
i completely disagree, there are millions of thousand page dry tomes written by protestant thinkers ruminating over the depths of the gospel truth.
>It reduces everything to a contractual set up
if you're catholic, your contractual critique is hilarious given yours is the framework with indulgence, sacramental economy and penitential system as merit-based.
>At the end of the day Jesus said to Peter "you are the rock on which I will build the church"
gross twisting of scripture here given the rock's identity in Matthew 16:18 makes more sense as an allusion to peter's confession or Christ himself.

>>520980752
Yeah sorry he btfo you when you couldn’t refute him with scripture and typed this (no one’s gonna read your essay on muh pope)

>>520979676

This is just atheism with extra steps. Since "all you need is faith," there is no reason to be a good person, or repent for your sins, or anything else whatsoever. According to you, unrepentant pedophiles and rapists WILL go to Heaven as long, as they believe in Christ, and guess what? You WILL like it. Good works? That shit doesn't matter. Matthew 7:21? Nope, doesn't fucking matter because you're protesting it. Baptism of Jesus/ presentation of the child Jesus and the purification of his blessed mother? Nope, doesn't fucking matter because Jesus made one exception for the thief... All Catholics are heretics because your Evangelical pastor said so. Ah yes, and let's all just disregard that Martin Luther consulted Christkilling Jews who hated him about which books to remove from the Bible. You have never read the Bible anyway, so why would its contents ever matter? Just go to church and meditate VERY STRONGLY while some assfucker preaches at you.

You are a well-poisoning, Rabbi-sucking retard with gas station theology that borders on New Age religion. Shit like this is why nobody takes Christianity seriously anymore, which is extremely regrettable. I truly hope you will repent for your ignorant belligerence, do penance, and find your way to Christ. If not... You are going to go to Hell.

I used to be a christian filled with the Holy Spirit, but I didnt repent of sins in a timely manner and I had grown bitter and rebellious against God and he decided to BTFO and he hasnt answered any prayers from me since 2023.

What I can say about christianity is that most of the things we are told is deception and lies, mixed with a sea of false denominations and doctrines. The most perverted false doctrine is "Once saved always saved"/"Eternal Security/"Faith Alone" which teaches the lie that repenting of sins and keeping the commandments is neccessary to enter into heaven. These people are put under a strong delusions so they will believe the lie and be damned. One of those cretins are here:
>>520979676
There is no point showing them Galatians 5:19-21, Revelation 21:8, John 15:6, because they are hellbound reprobates.

The Catholic church is the great mother harlot, and protestantism is the little harlot daughters.

True christians keep all the commandments written in NT, but they also keep the Torah/Old Testament Laws, they dont eat pig or shrimp, they keep the 4th commandment, the sabbath, and they do not partake in pagan idolatry rituals such as christmas, easter eggs and bunnies. Instead true christians keeps the established feasts such as unleaven bread, passover etc.

Finally, all true christians knows the covid 19 vaccine was the mark of the beast, alongside with the covid nasal swab being the mark in the forehead.

>>520983506
what if the church gets infiltrated by satanists that use the institution to create a satanic empire on earth that claims it has the authority because Jesus said so?

>>520985752
>Since "all you need is faith," there is no reason to be a good person
wrong wrong wrong wrong.
you don't need the carrot of heaven or stick of hell to have reason to be a good person.
Jesus said "If you love me, keep my commandments," not "if you want to earn heaven, be a good boy"

faith produces obedience, it doesn't replace it.
we're saved by grace through faith for good works (Ephesians 2:8-10), not by them.
the law shows us sin, the gospel gives us a new heart that wants to obey.

your view turns grace into a vending machine "do x, get y"
mine says "Christ already paid, now live like it."

>>520976045 (OP)
just got back from mass, and i'm going to adoration today to worship and honor my lord and savior. protestants do suck hard, regurgitating 500 year old lies that have been disproven repeatedly real quick.

>>520986033
>which teaches the lie that repenting of sins and keeping the commandments is NOT* neccessary

Correction
>>520986141
"If you want to enter into life, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS" - Jesus

Galatians 5:19-21 and Revelation 21:8 lists which sins will send a believer to hell, fornication, druguse, drunkeness, lying, so repenting of sins is a requisite to be saved on the day of judgement.

John 15:6 shows you that those who do not continue to abide in christ by keeping his commandments, will be cut off, gathered in a pile, and then burned.

>If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned.

The parable of the 10 virgins, all believers, showed that the 5 lazy and foolish virgins were shut out of the kingdom and lost salvation

>>520986231
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

The Roman Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon.

https://old.bitchute.com/video/BjvDqOhveL5j/

>>520976045 (OP)
australian rabbi hands made this thread

>>520986369
Truth. Now watch both the catholic and protestant make mental gymnastic rejecting the sabbath.

>>520986100
If you believe in God you would have to believe he would never allow that. Also, you will know them by their fruits. The Catholic Church has consistently held the line against modern progressivism and continues to affirm that the same sins of hundreds of years ago are sins. They don’t behave like a Satanic empire.
Even taken purely as a thought experiment, it would be highly difficult to pull off. First of all managing to persuade a bunch of Catholic priests to be Satanists, without someone being a genuine enough believer to rat you out and get excommunicated, is hard to imagine; but then even if you managed it, you would have to be able to persuade the faithful of heresies without inciting a backlash that would simply be the end of the Church.
Whether the priests are personally believers or not (many are perverted atheists to be sure), the structure and rigor of the Catholic Church is such that they have to at least pretend to go along with it. There’s no realistic path to subversion.

>>520986231

Yeshua sucks

>>520986431
lol wrong.
It's United States that is the whore of Babylon.

>>520976307
>I just like to complain.
you sound like a bitch and a heretic

>>520986656
lame. still going, and honoring him more because of this.

>>520986346
>Matthew 19:17
this was said to a jew, pre-atonement.
the command Jesus (God) gave him was to follow Him.
>Galatians 5:19-21 and Revelation 21:8 lists which sins will send a believer to hell
those passages show what a life without transformation looks like, but salvation isn't earned by avoiding sin, it's received by Christ's finished work.
true faith produces repentance and obedience, not perfection.
John 15 and the parable of the virgins warn against spiritual complacency, they don't teach salvation by merit.
your confidence should be placed in the once-for-all sacrifice of Jesus instead of your ability to avoid every sin.

>>520986507
>If you believe in God you would have to believe he would never allow that.
read Revelation 2 and 3 about the Churches.
>The Catholic Church has consistently held the line against modern progressivism and continues to affirm that the same sins of hundreds of years ago are sins. They don’t behave like a Satanic empire.
they changed the Law of God, allowing idol worship and removed the sabbath for sunday worship.
the pope claims to be God on earth who can forgive sins when only God can forgive sins.
>Even taken purely as a thought experiment, it would be highly difficult to pull off.
no, satan is the craftiest of all beings.
>managing to persuade a bunch of Catholic priests to be Satanists
who claims they can forgive sins? catholic priests.
>without someone being a genuine enough believer to rat you out and get excommunicated
like protestants?
>you would have to be able to persuade the faithful of heresies
all you need to do is let pagans into a position of authority.
>that they have to at least pretend to go along with it
fucking lmao
>There’s no realistic path to subversion.
oh my sweet summer child. open a history book.

>>520976356
It’s not Antichrist but it is the Leviathan

>>520986932
>this was said to a jew, pre-atonement.
Dispensationalism is falsehood. Everything in John, Matthew, Mark, luke are commandments a believer must keep to enter into everlasting life. To follow Jesus means keeping the commandment, hench pick up your cross daily and follow him. You must give up your entire life to follow Jesus and have eternal life. Those who find their temporary life will lose it eternally, those who lose their temporary life will find eternal life.
>>520986932
Those believers who do the sins listed in Galatians 5:19-21 and Revelation 21:8 will go to the lake of fire. You must repent of all sins to make it into heaven. The foolish virgins lost their salvation, so did the unforgiving servent, and the 1 talent servent.

>>520976045 (OP)
shut up, papal scum

>>520986950
>who claims they can forgive sins? catholic priests.
John 20:23
If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

>>520987428
dont leave out the rest
>21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”

>>520986737
The United States is part of it, all of the western Christian nations are part of the beast system.
But the whore is a religious congregation, a "woman" is always refering to a religious congregation. There is a true bride of Christ, and then there is a counterfeit woman. There is always a counterfeit in the Bible. It has first and foremost ecclesiastical relevance, that is what the Book of Revelation is talking about, the matters of God and worship. However Mystery Babylon is of course more, a political, economic, and religious system. The woman rides on this beast system. That is Rome, which was pagan Rome and then morphed into papal Rome. Pagan Rome gave papal Rome its seat and authority (Revelation 13:2), and it made the people worship the first beast, (pagan) Rome. "the beast that was, and is not, and yet is." - Revelation 17:8. You can see that Roman Catholics very much worship Rome, that is their actual god, and they will always argue in favor of Rome, no matter how obviously false and blasphemous this institution is. Rome is the god of Roman Catholics, and the pope (the son of perdition - Vicarivs Filii Dei; V+I+C+I+V+I+L+I+I+D+I = 666) is their "holy father" - this is blatant heresy and blasphemy, yet Roman Catholics are blind to this and lie and twist everything around like a serpent does, like their life depends on it, they have received the pagan spirit of Rome in their forehead, the mark of the beast >>520980182 >>520980692
>Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins
If you belong to Jesus Christ, you will hear his voice (John 10:27) and come out of Babylon.

>>520976045 (OP)
>intercession of saints
>Marianism
>Christian

>>520987317
Yet the based non-cucked churches we are assured totally exist in the real offline world never condemn these supposed heretics...

>>520987317
>Dispensationalism is falsehood.
i agree, i'm covenantal.
>Everything in John, Matthew, Mark, luke are commandments a believer must keep to enter into everlasting life.
extremely imprecise. if this is taken literally, that would include Luke 19:27, which clearly isn't a universal command.
the gospels contain a mix of teachings,
some directed at unbelievers, some parabolic, some eschatological.
"keep to enter life" reflects law, which as Galatians 3:24 says was meant to lead us to Christ.
believers already have eternal life (John 5:24) and keep His commands because the Spirit empowers obedience (Ezekiel 36:27, Romans 8:9)

>>520979676
Catholicism is 40% biblical and 60% “Church tradition” I.E., has literally zero basis on the teachings of Christ and is essentially a reinvention of Christianity as rabbinic Judaism is to the OT Hebrew faith.

>>520987766
Schizophrenic niggerbabble

>>520980988
What if he talking bout the planet?

>>520986431
Read the their “Third Secret of Fatima”
What they think of as Mary is revealed to them as containing an amphora with the blood of saints just like the whore, who is drunk on the blood of said saints is depicted as and yet they can’t see the forest for the trees.

>>520976045 (OP)
protestants are one of the many tools of the jew, put on earth to test us, but just don't pay them any mind and you will be ok

The third part of the secret revealed at the Cova da Iria-Fátima, on 13 July 1917.
I write in obedience to you, my God, who command me to do so through his Excellency the Bishop of Leiria and through your Most Holy Mother and mine.
After the two parts which I have already explained, at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand; flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire; but they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand: pointing to the earth with his right hand, the Angel cried out in a loud voice: 'Penance, Penance, Penance!'. And we saw in an immense light that is God, something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it, a Bishop dressed in White. We had the impression that it was the Holy Father. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God.
Tuy-3-1-1944.


“Mary” isnt who you claim her to be and is inherently idolatry. The ONLY way to the father is through the son.

>>520988020
I dont know what you are referring to. Church buildings are freemasonic funded deceptions, and the pastors recieve their education from jesuit theology schools, not the Holy Spirit.
>>520988094
Luke 19:27 is what will happen on judgement day to all those who refused to submit to him. The Holy Angels will be told to bind the sinners hand and feet and cast them into hell.

Believers who sin dont have eternal life, they are dead in their trespasses and must repent.

Sin is defined as transgression against the law/torah. Sinning is violating the torah. All believers must keep the torah, that means keeping the sabbath, not eating pork, not doing idolatry like christmas and easter, midsummer.

>>520988342
>>520988569
>just like the whore
What you pasted hardly bears a resemblance though. The only similarity is blood of the martyrs.

>>520988020
I have never seen an Orthodox church that didn't condemn Judaism and Zionism on the daily. It's like a core identity point of being orthodox.

>>520988108
You’re overrating Scripture and misunderstanding the role of the Church because you’re trying to retrospectively judge it through a Protestant lens. It is a strictly Protestant deviation that holds the Bible as the only source of revelation. The Catholic Church maintains that it was founded by Jesus as the means for continued revelation after he left the Earth. There is Scriptural basis for this and what Jesus would have intended by founding a Church. This idea that only the Bible counts came later but you’re trying to frame it as if Catholicism is a mutated heresy.
And regarding the Bible, it was a disparate collection of available scrolls that early Christians organized and deleted according to committee, not a perfect text handed down by God’s own giant hand with the commandment, “That’s all for now!” It’s the holy text on which the Church is based and the word of God, but nobody ever claimed it was the only possible source of revelation until Protestants. Now you’re acting like that has always been the correct position.

>>520988859
Who is Mary, and why do you feel the need to build idols of her a see “visions of her”? Where is the biblical precedent for this? Why would you ask Mary to talk to the Lord for you? Why would Mary talking to the Lord change anything? Marianism has zero biblical basis and is pagan through and through.

Jebus

>>520987766
>all of the western Christian nations are part of the beast system
all nations of the earth, not just western nations.

Catholicism is a feminist psyop. They literally worship Mary as a "divine feminine" and "mother of God", which is just repurposed Paganism.

Eve was literally created from Adam's rib. Women were made to be our servants. Mary was an incubator nothing more.

>>520979284
No you are kiek protests t sucl ass post 1o58 catholiciam proteatanism

>>520989002
It’s Talmud 2 Electric Boogaloo! Just trust the experts guys, no need to even understand the language the bibles written in.

>>520989239
On the contrary, your type of thinking is what led to feminism.

You only see value in women if they act like men. You can thank Judaism and Protestant Christianity for having no female figures in their mythology worthy of veneration

>>520986033
>but they also keep the Torah/Old Testament Laws, they dont eat pig or shrimp, they keep the 4th commandment, the sabbath, and they do not partake in pagan idolatry rituals such as christmas, easter eggs and bunnies. Instead true christians keeps the established feasts such as unleaven bread, passover etc.
This was addressed in Acts 15:

> Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are. [...] “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.

This is all that was required from the gentiles. Why should you as a non-jew follow the laws not even the Jews were able to follow?

>>520976045 (OP)
The Jesuits were supposed to defeat Protestantism. But then the Dutch and the English Puritans fucked it all up.

>>520989002
The bible is a supernatural living word of God, its not mere text. All the bible verses are like a spiritual sword that is meant to be weilded by believers in their daily life

>>520989367
Women aren't worthy of veneration. You're a cuck.

>>520989367
there is only one person to be venerated and worshiped, Jesus Christ.
Mary was an ordinary human like everyone else that needed to be saved.

>>520988809
>Luke 19:27 is what will happen on judgment day
it's a parable, not a prescription.
the king = Christ as the second coming
enemies = rejectors of His reign, not sabbath breakers.
>believers who sin don't have eternal life, they are dead
John 5:24 says "I tell you the solemn truth, the one who hears my message and believes the one who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned, but has crossed over from death to life"
1 John 1:8-9 says "If we say we do not bear the guilt of sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. But if we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous, forgiving us our sins and cleansing us from all unrighteousness."
dead in tresspasses = pre-conversion (Ephesians 2:1) post-conversion = alive, sealed, indwelt (Ephesians 1:13)
>Sin is [...] all believers must keep the torah
Colossians 2:16-17 says the sabbath, food and festivals are a shadow, the substance is Christ.
Acts 15 jerusalem council freed us goys from circumcision and torah observance for salvation.
moral law (love God/neighbor) remains, ceremonial/civil law was fulfilled in Jesus. Grace isn't torah 2.0.

>>520976307
b8

>>520976045 (OP)
Heresy.

>>520989362
You’re going to have to get over the fact that Christianity is based on Jewish tradition and that the first converts were Jewish. Yes, Catholic revelation functions similarly to the Jewish oral tradition, that’s because it is the New Law which replaced the Old Law. It is not a Roman Hitler Fuhrer religion that sprouted out of a Greek Statue pfp’s anus. You have been misled.

>>520976356
Matthew 16

>>520989564
>that sprouted out of a Greek Statue pfp’s anus
kek

>>520989452
I know that’s what Christians believe but functionally speaking it was a loose collection of scrolls that they had to pick and choose from. If the Dead Sea Scrolls were found earlier they probably would have been included. It was just organizing the available literature.
If it were completely beyond reproach the Gospels wouldn’t differ in their tellings btw.

>>520989478
>ordinary human
She was given a choice and an opportunity no one else in the history of man was ever given, nor will ever again be given. It is thanks to her voluntary collaboration with God that our savior was born, and as such the whole mankind owes her thanks for their salvation. Do you realize that she might have just as well refused? Run away because the burden was too great? Yet she chose faithfulness to God in the most important matter of all history. For this, we should give her all possible honor. She is the least ordinary human to ever exist.

>>520989392
Acts 15? You mean where you are told to not eat meat with blood? Thats from Deuteronomy 12:23, OLD TESTAMENT COMMANDMENT.

The verse finishes with everyone keeping the sabbath:

For Moses has been proclaimed in every city from ancient times and is read in the synagogues on every <<Sabbath>>.

Not eating pork, keeping the sabbath is not an unbearable yoke.

>>520989428
Protestantism or something like it was inevitable, the Catholic church was too corrupt and Christianity itself is too brittle. Nor has the Catholic church learned any real lasting lessons from the Protestant revolt, they're still corrupt to the point of self-parody. Eternal schism is Christendom's inescapable future.

>>520976045 (OP)
>>520976307
>Denominational fighting
The book seems pretty clear on this to me.

>>520989564
It’s all semantics with you people just like the Jews.

>uh, it isn’t praying TO the saint, it’s asking him to talk to God and help me so it can’t be idolatry
>the gigantic statue of a woman covered in jewels and gold I’m kneeling infront of and asking for crypto wins isn’t idolatry, it’s uh, just reverence

The only way to God is through the son. Even if saints and angels and the milkman could talk to him on your behalf it would mean nothing.

>>520989741
>Do you realize that she might have just as well refused? Run away because the burden was too great?
God is all knowing.
we are all given a choice in life to repent and return to God to be our guide instead of ourselves, God initiates this by convicting us of our sins and the one that gives us the Holy Spirit in return.

>For this, we should give her all possible honor. She is the least ordinary human to ever exist.
no, the only not ordinary person in all of human history is Jesus Christ. not his mother.
if you want to give honors to humans start with Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses like the jews do. without them there would be no Mary.

>>520989922
Catholicism only held together western Christianity by using state coercion and killing anyone that tried to revolt. Once they weren't able to do that anymore the whole thing fell apart.

>>520989751
Yes, the remaining laws are easy to bear. If I understood right, you were suggesting following the whole mosaic law, which would be both impossible and unbiblical. But if this is not what you meant, I apologize for the confusion.

All churches are evil. The temple killed Jesus. The Bible provides not one example for a church structure in the some thousand rules for humanity it provides. They are just another tax racket. The “new” ones are always based on lies. Protestants started out being against catholic niggardry, but then money got involved, and now they demand you pay them for reading the same paragraph out of the Bible every week. God hates them, and it shows.

>>520989515
Sabbath breakers are rejecting Gods laws, thus they are his enemies. Those who proclaim to know Christ must walk as he did. He kept the sabbath. Peter, John, Paul kept the sabbath.

You must confess your sins and stop doing them, or you will go to hell. Anyone who practice sins belongs to the devil and will go to hell.

Being sealed and indwelt with the Holy Spirit is not a guarantee that you will go to heaven. If you continue to grieve the Holy Spirit, and stop abiding in Christ you will be cut off from the vine, wither and ultimately burned.

If you believe in the false osas doctrine you are going to hell, the great apostacy, the great falling away happened in 2020 when the covid 19 vaccine, the mark of the beast, was distributed to 90% of the world.

Colossians 2:16 is actually telling sabbath keepers not to let heathens judge them for obeying God

Nowhere in the bible is pork and shrimp lawful to eat. Keep torah like Jesus did or be told "Depart from me, you who BREAKS GODS LAWS".

Sin is the transgression of the LAW/TORAH - John

>>520989706
whole lot of nonsense in this post, most glaring of all is the last line.
scholars use tools like the criterion of dissimilarity to assess authenticity.
variation in detail actually supports their credibility rather than weakening it, it shows they're independent testimonies rather than fabrications.

>>520980179
Antipope its pope siri and pope roux

>>520976219
>Catholics
>white

>>520976045 (OP)
they're very entertaining and post-modern so i like them

>>520976219
OP is a pajeet or a kike

>>520989706
You never had the Holy Spirit, so you can never understand how all scriptures are Godbreathed. You dont understand Precept upon precept, how the bible is hyperlinked on a level that is impossible to do by mortal intellect, how the end is declared from the beginning, fitting perfectly.

God said in genesis that he would seperate light from darkness, and the 4 gospels, and the book of revelation explains how now in the end times mankind is seperated between chaff and wheat.

You never had bible verses hop into your mind daily in every situation giving you guidence

>>520980179
He did. It say open borders he said refugees thats horseshit he is not a pontiff western scisn p2 mafia and talnduic zionsit communsir no godsamned moa dehydration defending their compromise wirh communist there is no council

>>520990057
>God is all knowing.
She still had to make the choice, as she was not an automaton but a sentient being. She could have refused, yet she chose to be faithful. It's a microcosm of the Church staying faithful to Christ, as His bride.

>if you want to give honors to humans start with Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses like the jews do. without them there would be no Mary.
Naturally, all of them are venerated saints in the Church. Veneration is not a zero sum game. We generously venerate those who deserve our veneration.

>>520980182
Pope siri that and that is faghrr Charles roux in 1958

>>520990100
Other than sacrificial laws, which is done away with since Jesus is the lamb who took away all the sins, which old testament laws are impossible to keep?

>>520990088
In nearly ever case the impetus for every violent revolt against the Catholic church's authority was the same: clerical corruption. People were tired of being robbed, cheated, and abused by the less moral elements of the Church.

>>520980752
>Jesus saying to Peter, on this rock I will build my Church. That is not a throwaway remark, it is an explicit reference to Peter being the head of a new Church. And that’s what followed. The Church was formed with a line of Popes whose authority descends from Peter, as Christ explicitly intended.

Wew lad.

You sure about that?

Are you SURE about that?

Next you’ll be telling me John 6 is definitely omg obviously about the Eucharist.

The great irony is that the Roman Church routinely has the sketchiest interpretations about what passages of scripture mean…. interpretations which suspiciously always support their dubious claims to primacy and authority. But I’m sure that’s just a coincidence. I suppose shaky, loose scriptural hermeneutics are to be expected, though, when you don’t treat the Bible as the final authoritative source in the first place.

>>520989922
The landgrab was too tempting.

>>520990131
you're right that those who claim to know Christ ought to walk as He did, but walking as He did means trusting the Father, loving others, and fulfilling the law through the Spirit, not reverting to the mosaic code.
Jesus kept the sabbath because He was born under the Law (Galatians 4:4), to fulfill it, not to perpetuate it.
the apostles also attended synagogue, but Acts 15 makes clear that gentile believers were not placed under the yoke of the torah.
Colossians 2:16-17 doesn't say "don't let pagans judge you for keeping the sabbath," it says don't let anyone judge you regarding food drink festivals new moons or sabbath, because these were shadows and the substance is Christ.
those who practice sin without repentence show they don't know God (1 John 3:6-10), but that's not the same as saying believers who stumble are damned. 1 John 1:9 still applies.
Jesus fulfilled the Torah (Matthew 5:17) and in Him, we are under the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), not the old code. the new covenant is a better covenant, built on better promises (Hebrews 8:6)

>>520990284
That’s not because I wasn’t raised Christian and am unfamiliar with the Bible, it’s because I was not successfully indocrinated at a young age like the rest of Christendom to believe in magic or our millenium’s new take on gods/God, which every hot new millenium has had (the next one won’t). You aren’t experiencing something true and unique to being Christian, you’re experiencing the same pleasant-feeling self-delusion of every other religious person whose religion differs from yours. When you learn to seperate what feels good from what’s true you will achieve true gnosis.

>>520990363
>She still had to make the choice
we all do, God gives us all a choice. but God knows the outcome beforehand.
this doesnt make her special.
>We generously venerate those who deserve our veneration.
yes, I see the fruits of this error. how many more prayers are dedicated to Mary and Saints that should have been addressed to God our savior?
why rob him of his glory? only he is to be venerated, prayed to, honored, worshiped. nobody else, not any single one.

>>520990131
>Nowhere in the bible is pork and shrimp lawful to eat.
How do you see Peter's vision in Acts 10 fitting this view?

>>520990385
>which old testament laws are impossible to keep?
The totality of them together. No human in history has done it, as all humans sin, hence the need for Christ in whom the law could be perfected and fulfilled.

>>520990531
in reality though, atheism is the fastest shrinking religion in the world.
only 5% of the adult population of america is atheist.
"religious nones" are on the rise but these are just denominationally unaffiliated theists.

>>520990618
>we all do, God gives us all a choice. but God knows the outcome beforehand.
>this doesnt make her special.
It's not only the choice that makes her special, but the opportunity to choose the most important choice in the history of mankind. She was given the most extraordinary opportunity any human has ever been given, and she honorably saw it to its completion.

>ow many more prayers are dedicated to Mary and Saints that should have been addressed to God our savior? why rob him of his glory? only he is to be venerated, prayed to, honored, worshiped. nobody else, not any single one.
We only eat the body and blood of Christ. There is no other person Christians worship. Praying to saints does not rob God of his glory any more than asking your friends to pray for you does. It brings God joy to see his children venerated and trusted on, just like it brings any father joy to see his children recognized for their prestige.

>>520990618
>God gives us all a choice. but God knows the outcome beforehand.

What nonsense. If the Christian god exists and is, omnipotent, omniscient, as well as the creator of each and every person to ever exists then there is no such thing as free will. In the Christian conception of things God knows every thought that will go through your mind before he crafted it, knew how you'd respond to every single stimuli, and exactly when and where those stimuli would be applied through your entire life. It's like playing billiards and pretending that you're only responsible for striking the white ball and pretending the other balls have a choice whether they get pocketed or not.

>>520990522
You are decieved like majority of christians. Paul went and took a nazarite vow to prove he did not teach against the law.

The sabbath is the 4th commandment and it is an everlasting commandment, Sabbath will be kept in the 1000 year Kingdom. Read Isaiah 66, it says so, it also states that Jesus will kill all pork eaters and mice eaters on his 2nd coming.

Paul kept the sabbath 51 times in the NT.

You should read the warning in 2nd peter 3:16-17 where it says people will twist pauls letter into lawlessness and thus their own eternal destruction
>>520990531
I am from sweden so I wasnt raised a christian. I heard the preaching in 2018 and in desperation one evening I called out to God and had a personal supernatural experience where an invisible Holy force and presence put me on my knees and my hands twisted up into a prayer and I couldnt stand up.

I have met Jesus Christ so I know he is real, and every person will eventually know he is real on judgementday.

>>520991264
Yeah people aren’t close to giving up religion yet, and I already anticipate that the only way the West will be restored is hand in hand with a massive revival of Christianity, like if Fuentes came into power. There seems to be no hope of disentangling white identity from “Christ is King!” tards, which is fine because an atheist white identitarian would simply have no hope of being elected. But the masses are asses and my belief or disbelief is not decided by what the majority of people believe. Go to the average Instagram or Youtube comment section and behold the gibberish. That’s the average person’s IQ in action. I do not care that they passively believe what they were raised to believe. It doesn’t change the truth, which is that magic isn’t real and we are alone. It’s just a conversation for another time.

>>520991627
>It doesn’t change the truth, which is that [naturalism is true] and we are alone.
what gives you such certainty that this is the truth?

>>520976045 (OP)
yes
the children of the roman psyop turned out even worse

>>520991292
>to choose the most important choice in the history of mankind
the fuck are you babbling about, there was almost no choice on Marys side involved. the angel showed up and explained to her what will happen without any choice of her own,

28 And he came to her and said, “Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!”[c] 29 But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and tried to discern what sort of greeting this might be. 30 And the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.”

the greatest choice any human ever did was Jesus in the garden, when he forsook his own Will to carry out the Will of the Father and die for us on the cross under insane amounts of stress and anxiety to the point most people wouldve died.
this alone is the greatest choice because Jesus being God couldve just escape or go to heaven directly.
yet he CHOSE to die for all humanity on the cross.

>We only eat the body and blood of Christ. There is no other person Christians worship.
so youre just a pagan cult at this point. interesting.
>God of his glory any more than asking your friends to pray for you does
what a childish point of view. how many times do you fall to the knees before your friends, light candles to them and treat them like they are deities?
>It brings God joy to see his children venerated and trusted on
how the fuck would you know? all honor is to his Son, Jesus Christ. nobody else died for your sins.
>it brings any father joy to see his children
start with his only child we know about, Jesus Christ.
you dont know who else is of the Father, only Christ knows.

>>520976356
Said the american... your country forced second council, your country forced kike customs on christians and your country is forcing kike media, have a bit of of shame please.

>>520991582
>If the Christian god exists and is, omnipotent, omniscient, as well as the creator of each and every person to ever exists then there is no such thing as free will.
This is a non-sequitur. It is impossible to , because you nor any of us knows the ontological and epistemological realities God is subject to. You can only think in terms of three dimensional causality, and even within the realm of this framework you will be unable to sufficiently prove that your statement can be logically justified. As far as we know, anyone's foreknowledge does not eliminate your ability to choose.

>>520979676
Why did Jesus and the Ethiopean eunuch get baptized? You seem like an Evangelical or worse a non-denominational bible study

>>520991582
foreknowledge =/= causation.
the billiards analogy only works of the balls have no nature of their own and physics compels every bounce.
humans aren't physical puppets, we act from desire, reasons, and real alternatives.
God's omniscience simply means He never learns, He timelessly sees the cohices we actually make with the liberty we actually have.

>>520991582
you put faith into God to lead you out of the trouble you got into by your own choice.

>>520991817
>there was almost no choice on Marys side involved.

Did you know what abortion is? In that age it was easy for everyone because they used a wild plant that became extinct in our times.

>>520991720
It’s more that there’s not a convincing case to the contrary. We don’t see magic in our day to day lives and Christianity is not the first religion. There is a plethora of religions and always has been, because it is a community ritual and coping system for sprouting up on a planet on accident. Christianity is our part of the world’s coping system and has made no greater case for being representative of reality than the Greek Gods. It’s just another story. In our day to day lives, what we actually see is not magic or divine intervention, but a tranny shooting up the Annunciation Catholic school and the grimy grind of reality in a universe that doesn’t need you or notice you. We have to give ourselves meaning, because we don’t have any on principle. If I ever had reason to believe otherwise I would.

>>520990793
>How do you see Peter's vision in Acts 10 fitting this view?
Peter tell you it himself in acts 10:28.

>He said to them, “You know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with a foreigner or visit him. But God has shown me that I should ----not call any man impure or unclean.----

>>520990793
>The totality of them together. No human in history has done it, as all humans sin, hence the need for Christ in whom the law could be perfected and fulfilled.

https://bjorkbloggen.com/2014/02/19/examples-of-righteous-and-holy-people-in-the-bible/

Christians still eat meat with blood despite acts 15 telling them otherwise
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0R5kK-8hiHc

Paul kept the sabbath
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7ZzrGuYd_Y

>>520992049
>Why did Jesus get baptised
to fulfill all righteousness (Matthew 3:15), identify with sinners, inaugurate His ministry, model obedeience.
not for personal salvation, He's sinless.
>why did the eunuch?
public confession of faith was already made (Acts 8:37)
baptism is a sign of union with Christ, not the union itself.

t. evangelical

>>520992148
>has made no greater case for being representative of reality than the Greek Gods

Actually it was so superior that greeks adopted it, you are a liar or a true ignoramus.

>>520992097
did you skip the part where an angel showed up, not once but multiple times?
first to Mary.
then to Joseph, telling her to take Mary as wive despite her being already with child.
the third time to Joseph to tell him to get moving away to Egypt because Herod just ordered every newborn to be killed.
you dont go, hurr abortion, when an angel shows up.

>>520990793
>>520990522
Give me one legitimate reason why you are unable to:

1) Keep the sabbath as God commanded his followers to, and even promised a special blessing for all those who do (Isaiah 58:13)

2) Give up pork and shrimp

3)Stop celebrating pagan holidays like christmas and easter

>>520991817
>the fuck are you babbling about, there was almost no choice on Marys side involved. the angel showed up and explained to her what will happen without any choice of her own,
Almost? Either you have the ability to choose or you don't. If I understand you right, you're conceding that she did.

>the greatest choice any human ever did was Jesus in the garden
I would say that is an inapplicable counter argument, since Jesus was both human and God, whereas Mary was mere human.

>how many times do you fall to the knees before your friends, light candles to them and treat them like they are deities?
If my friends were highly sanctified and had passed away, I probably would. Alas, I barely have even regular friends. Yet saints are our friends alive in Christ.

>how would you know?
Our Christian tradition teaches so.

>start with his only child we know about, Jesus Christ.
No one is denying Christ friend. All glory belongs to Christ.

>>520992161
Righteous and holy does not equate sinlessness. Only Jesus was sinless. The righteous simply are less sinful than the others. I'll reply more later if I get the chance. If not, my our God bless you my dear friend.

>>520976307
You're in hell now. Stop making it worse.

>>520986141

My brother in Christ... In your religion, you need not to love God, nor respect God, nor even to give thanks for the immense sacrifice of Christ and show gratitude. By your own logic, none of this is required to be saved: Only faith. Regardless of whatever you think about Catholicism, this really is just Secular Humanism with an extra step. Faith is the most important component, but it is not the only component.

>My view says "Christ already paid, now live like it."

According to your own reasoning, you don't have to 'live like it' in order to be saved; obedience is not required, only belief. Therefore, as long as he believes in Christ, Muhammad can cut off your arms, rape your daughter and wife in front of you while you watch, still-living, and then finally behead you. If he simply decides to believe in Jesus, then he will will be joining you and your family in Heaven.

Do you see now? The version of Christianity which you are preaching is a completely worthless abomination which nobody should follow. It is a cult which will actually drive people away from Christ, because of the extent to which it is permissive of enormous evil.

>Your view turns grace into a vending machine.

Absolutely not. You do not even permit yourself to try and understand what my view is, because you are a pastoralist. You have never read the book to completion. You value your Protestant pastor's opinions more than the book itself. According to you, you are not even required to read the book because you do not need to understand Christ 'correctly' in order to be saved. The thoughts and opinions of the 1500 years' worth of Catholics preceding the heretic Luther, who brought you the Bible you claim to believe in, are utterly worthless to you. You believe yourself to be holier than them.

This is an abomination, and I can firmly say you are going to go to Hell if you do not change your ways. Repent, and do penance.

>>520992512
>All glory belongs to Christ.
To add, we venerate saints because Christ's grace is in them in abundance, not because the saints themselves are special. So indirectly it still comes back to glorifying Christ.

>>520992467
bacon is delicious
easter and Christmas aren't pagan
>>520992148
>If I ever had reason to believe otherwise I would.
what arguments for theism have you explored?

Gentiles are a slave subspecies and Jews have the bloodright to utilize gentiles as they see fit, and the gentiles who refuse to be of service deserve to die. Would probably rack up over 8 billion deaths and I think that would be fitting. there is no need for that many cattle.

Why does everyone on /pol/ have such an atheistic Machiavellian approach to religion? Everything is an argument about what religion creates the best society, as if religion is just like a video game where it gives your nation bonuses.

THE ONLY MEASUREMENT FOR RELIGION IS WHETHER IT'S TRUE OR NOT

Can we please get a religion board so you faggots can have your tard slap fights away from normal posters?

>>520992731
Evangelicals

Reject free will

Accept dispensationalism, rapture, etc

>>520992512
>And Mary said, “Behold, I am the servant[f] of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her.
thats her choice, accept the choice God made for her.
every believer does the same, forsaking their own will for the Will of God in their life. that is what sets believers apart from the rest.
>since Jesus was both human and God´
exactly, him being God he couldve done anything he wants, yet forsook himself for the Will of God for him.
stop deifying Mary. Jesus, God in human form, humbled himself for humanity and carry our transgression when he is God the most High.
>I probably would
sounds a lot like you are just skirting the worship of humans to me at this point. Mary the human and human saints, but not God.
>Our Christian tradition teaches so.
they are human traditions, not christian. they are on the same level as the traditions of the pharisees.
>we venerate saints because Christ's grace is in them in abundance
how would you know? the saints are hidden by God in Christ. that means nobody knows who a saint is and who is not. only God knows the heart of a person.
what will you do when judgement days come and you realize you dedicated prayers to a wolf in sheep clothing all the time?

>>520976045 (OP)
Yes. A bastardization of Christianity. May Cromwell and Luther burn in Hell

>>520976045 (OP)
Protestants are second hand catholics and both will go to hell

>>520992849
Practice a Christian pagan tradition, reject the Eucharist

>>520992731
>My brother in Christ... In your religion, you need not to love God, nor respect God, nor even to give thanks for the immense sacrifice of Christ and show gratitude
we do "need to" just not necessarily to attain the once and for all time free gift of salvation. we "need to" in order to fulfill the reason for our existence.
>According to your own reasoning, you don't have to 'live like it' in order to be saved; obedience is not required, only belief.
what was required is not "only belief" but the power and efficacy of Christ's atoning work on the cross.
>Therefore, as long as he believes in Christ, Muhammad can cut off your arms, rape your daughter and wife in front of you while you watch, still-living, and then finally behead you. If he simply decides to believe in Jesus, then he will will be joining you and your family in Heaven.
yeah.
>You have never read the book to completion.
not true.
>According to you, you are not even required to read the book because you do not need to understand Christ 'correctly' in order to be saved.
are you actually saying here that reading the Bible cover to cover is a requirement for salvation?
>The thoughts and opinions of the 1500 years' worth of Catholics preceding the heretic Luther, who brought you the Bible you claim to believe in, are utterly worthless to you
they have value to me, just no authority.

>>520993131
i'm evangelical

and a molinist

and hold to new covenant theology, and am not committed to any pre-mil/postmil/amil escahtological view

>>520976045 (OP)
True

>>520993416
Were the church fathers unfluenced by the Holy spirit when they canonized the Bible?

>>520976356
Way to commit mortal sin anon.

>>520993581
You have a better perspective than the majority in your denomination

>>520993740
>Were the church fathers unfluenced by the Holy spirit when they canonized the Bible?
i dunno.
whether they were influenced or not when organizing the table of contents has no bearing on whether or not the scriptures were God breathed.
Jesus expected the jews to know which books were or weren't inspired scripture "have you not read?" without there being some infallible magisterium of jews to ratify a declaration on canon.

>>520992849
>bacon is delicious
Carnal hellbound fake christian detected
>easter and Christmas aren't pagan
Yes they are, only a person under a strong delusion would chop down a tree, decorate it, and wear silly red hats and then proclaim its the will of God

jeremiah 10:2-10. You are HELLBOUND!

>>520994184
¯\_(シ)_/¯

>>520993416

>yeah.

Nothing else that you wrote is worth contemplating or debating any longer. By your own admission, you follow a false religion of utter depravity and evil. You have thrown out the baby Jesus with the bathwater in order to more greatly dwell upon a single atom (mere belief) of the ceramic bath in which he once dwelled. You are such a heretic that you can no longer earnestly call yourself a Christian. AT BEST, you are a sort of New Age cultist which has Christ as its core focus. More likely, you are a filthy Jew who wishes to spread false gospel in order to torment the true Church and beleaguer her faithful, as is so very common on this board.

Furthermore, by your own logic, I will experience no penalty for saying this, because I have faith.

>>520993581

Another case of Satan barfing up large words from his unholy mouth to deceive the faithful.

>>520994707
you call it depravity, paul calls it "where sin increased, grace abounded all the more" (Romans 5:20)
if you believe salvation must be earned, then Christ died for nothing (Galatians 2:21)

>>520995006

You are challenging air, because I have no ears for heretics. If you wish to be refuted, simply read the Bible. It will become eminently easy to see that you have ignored the entire pine forest for a handful of birches. May God set you upon the right path.

>>520995006
Paul also kept the law. Paul said we establish the law.So is Paul a hypocrite?

>>520996109
paul kept the law as a jew to win jews (1 Cor 9:20)
he established the law by upholding its purpose, to expose sin and point to Christ (Romans 3:31)
it's missionary contextualization rather than hypocrisy.
gentiles were never under the torah (Romans 6:14)
we're justified by faith apart from works of the law (Romans 3:28)

>>520976045 (OP)
They were mad because the Spanish Empire controlled Rome and the Vatican, simple as.

>>520996314
>Romans 6:14
Romans 6:14 – “You are not under law but under grace”

What people claim:

“We’re not under the law anymore—we’re under grace. That means we don’t have to obey the commandments!”

What Paul actually meant:
Let’s read the whole context.

Romans 6:14:

“For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.”

Now let’s ask: Why does sin no longer have dominion over us?

Because grace empowers us to overcome sin, not continue in it.

Romans 6:15–16:

“What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!
Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?”

Paul spells it out:

Being under the law = a slave to sin

Being under grace = a slave to obedience

Grace doesn’t abolish obedience—it demands it.

Definition Check: What Is Sin?

Let’s bring in 1 John 3:4:

“Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.”

So if grace frees us from the dominion of sin, and sin = breaking God’s law…
Then grace frees us from lawlessness, not from the law itself.

Recap in Simple Terms

Grace doesn’t cancel the commandments—it enables us to keep them.

Being "under the law" = guilty, condemned, enslaved to sin.

Being "under grace" = forgiven, empowered, obedient.

Paul literally says we become slaves to obedience, which leads to righteousness.

>>520980182
Christan brothers remember the enemy of our enemy is our friend.
https://youtu.be/LNBueIqyqvc?si=A8shYPllKQ66QRIq

>Meanwhile the evil Satanist elites are sacrificing children on a daily basis

The infighting will only destroy us and strengthen them.

Knowledge is power brothers.

They live that's a fact!

>>520997118
>The infighting will only destroy us and strengthen them.
all secret societies were created by the jesuits who pledge allegiance to the pope.
he is the light, they are the darkness. its the same coin, different sides.

sorry cathlochuds, but the clergy WILL be female

>my cult
>no my cult!

Fuck off

>>520996791
yes, grace demands obedience, but from a new heart (Ezekiel 36:26-27)
1 John 3:4 in context shows a pattern of life, not perfection. believers stumble (1 John 1:8-10), but don't practice sin (3:9)
under law = condemned by the law (Romans 6:14, Galatians 3:13)
under grace = freed from the law's curse to obey from love (Romans 7:8, 8:2-4)
>shall we sin? by no means!
because grace transforms, not because the torah condemns.
moral law (love God/neighbor) is written on the heart (Jeremiah 31:33, Hebrews 8:10)
ceremonial/civil law was fulfilled in Christ (Colossians 2:16-17)
you're mixing justification (faith alone) with sanctification (spirit-empowered obedience)

if obedience earns salvation, why the cross? (Galatians 2:21)
>>520997715
atheism is the gayest cult

>>520997380
My brother look at the twelve apostles the church has always had traitors

>Judas

Do not think that our Lord did that by chance.

His whole life is symbolic

We must rest in Christ promise the gates of hell will never prevail!

We must notify, pray, educate, remember self defense is a morally good thing

Arms to arms

Prayer to Prayer

>Become a Saint

Pray The Rosary "the battering ram of heaven."

https://youtu.be/Gv3wN35c1qc?si=AH_lPG-UlN8O7Co3

Expect this thread to be pruned

>>520997996
>the gates of hell will never prevail!
are gates an offensive or defensive structure?
Jesus declared war against the kingdom of satan, and its gates cant withstand the church.
he also said many false prophets and teacher will come in his name and not to be deceived.
>Pray The Rosary "the battering ram of heaven."
its praying as the pagans do.

6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

7 “And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

>>520997766
>you're mixing justification (faith alone) with sanctification (spirit-empowered obedience)

What part of ALL liars will have their part in the lake of fire dont you understand? Paul and Revelation already gave you a list of which sins will condemn a believer, and Jesus gave more conditions that must be met to go to heaven, hench if we dont forgive others, neither will God forgive us

the 5 foolish believers lost salvation
the one talent servent lost salvation

>>520997380
Secret societies have been around a lot longer than the Jesuits so to say that why created them is a falsehood on your part

>>520998242
My brother you have very valid questions but if you believe in Our Lord Jesus The Christ I would advise you to ask Him.

>SEE what he says.

>>520998323
it makes sense when you realize its the same pagan cult that came from babel, to babylon, to pergamon and eventually to rome.
same shit, different day. nothing new under the sun.
jesuits were a response to the reformation that identified the whore of babylon as the vatican and the roman church.
you always had these secret societies infiltrating the roman church. they want the seat of rome to be held by their own men and to be worshiped as God on earth.
pontifex maximus, the vicar of christ etc. the man in place of Christ.

>>520998521
I am currently, I invite you to learn and stay on watch so you arent found sleeping when the Lord comes.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWiIsOV3p3xJQKdnD3_gZlf7_q9FdYHHL

>>520976045 (OP)
.

>>520998269
yes, all liars will have their part in the lake of fire, unless they are forgiven.
that's the point of the gospel.
Christ died for sinners, and those who trust Him are justified, not because they never sinned, but because they are covered by His righteousness. (2 Cor 5:21)
you're quoting judgment passages as if they describe believers who sin once and are lost, but scripture distinguishes between practicing sin (1 John 3:9) and stumbling in sin (1 John 1:8-9)
the former shows an unregenerate heart, the latter is part of the believer's ongoing sanctification.
Jesus' warnings, like the unforgiven servant or the foolish virgins are about people who never truly knew Him, whose lives bore no fruit of genuine faith.

if salvation is lost every time someone sins, then grace is meaningless and the cross is insufficient.
but if salvation is by grace through faith, then obedience flows from a transformed as evidence of salvation rather than its condition.

ultimately, mr. judaizer, if you think perfection is required for heaven then neither you nor anyone else will ever make it.

>>520976045 (OP)
,

>>520998980
>dark peach text on dark brick orange
there is no way in hell that's the style you use when browsing 4chan.

>>520998705
Thank you God Bless you it's simple

>Ask Jesus

>>520998918
You are preaching mumbo jumbo calvinism. True believers can fall off, which is why the bible warns against
Departing from the faith
Fall away from the faith
Having believed in vain
Shipwreck your faith

True believers must still endure to the end, and if you were a thieving and eventually recieved forgiveness, and then go back to thievery you will go to hell

Obedience is not guaranteed, a person can recieve salvation, obey for a season, then fall back into the world and depart from the faith.

The only god worth our time is the man made god

>>520999354
>You are preaching mumbo jumbo calvinism
i'm a molinist though, calvinists don't like me.
we could continue throwing verses at eachother but it would be fruitless.

ultimately though, under my soteriological framework, Christ's atoning work on the cross was sufficient enough to save every soul God knew would freely receive it, and efficacious enough to keep every one of them to the end. my Lord and Redeemer is not a failure, even if i am.

all jew worshippers do, thats not a protestant thing.

you know about joseph smith's adopted jewess daughter?
the popes who drank baby blood?
the openly gay orthodox priests?

when youre spiritually dependent on jews, theres only one road your soul can travel. fruit of the poisonous tree and all that nonsense.

>>521000294
what meaning-making framework do you propose in its stead?

yes whites fight.... fight each other... yesssssss

>>520976045 (OP)
At the very least we don't worship idols or "the Virgin mother" which is another demon worship. You catholicucks are gonna be thrown into hellfire

>>520976307
>hell
its called tartarus dummy
and its only for people who do especially egregious sins, like people being led to oppose their own creators by a series of simple environmental adjustments. people like Sisyphus, and jew worshippers (christcucks)
>In the New Testament, the noun Tartarus does not occur but tartaroō (ταρταρόω, "throw to Tartarus"), a shortened form of the classical Greek verb kata-tartaroō ("throw down to Tartarus"), does appear in 2 Peter 2:4
"hell" is just a way of jewwashing other peoples cultures
>According to Plato (c.427 BC), Rhadamanthus, Aeacus and Minos were the judges of the dead and chose who went to Tartarus. Rhadamanthus judged Asian souls, Aeacus judged European souls and Minos was the deciding vote and judge of the Greek.[18] Souls regarded as unjust or perjured would go to Tartarus.[18] Those who committed crimes seen as curable would be purified there, while those who committed crimes seen as uncurable would be eternally damned, and demonstrate a warning example for the living.[18] In Gorgias, Plato writes about Socrates telling Callicles, who believes might makes right,[19] that doing injustice to others is worse than suffering injustice, and most uncurable inhabitants of Tartarus were tyrants whose might gave them the opportunity to commit huge crimes.
note that niggers and jews do not have souls, therefore do not go to tartarus, and cannot be redeemed. the crime of christcuckery is what you might call an unredeemable crime. there should be not scenario that exists which would lead you to oppose your own creators by following a jewish rabbi that happens to be convenient for the State. and you shouldnt be gambling your eternal soul carelessly like its choosing between two brands of shampoo. these people (lit. "npcs") exist for the purpose of illustrating you what you are *not* supposed to do. just be smarter than jews, thats really all you gotta do to make it in this world.

>>521001996
>all this misinfo
go play with your dog.

>>521000711
>meaning-making framework
i dont know what you mean by that. are you asking what the meaning of existance is, and how it was made? picrel is about as simple and concise as it gets. the greeks had it right, an eye for two eyes, marry at 30 a woman 5 years past her rag, then dedicate yourself to molding her into holding your same values, since you are older, wiser, and not easily misled by pathos oriented appeal to emotion jewish tricks like christianity and can spare her the misery of the shame of meeting your makers after having shunned them.

>>521001996
>christcucks
Moshe, please.

>>520999354
>obey
Spoken like true hellbound.

>>520976045 (OP)
This and thank you for the thread.
>>520998980
>the church needs to be reactionaries dedicated to sperging out and making fools of themselves like muh meathead board

>>520980988
>if peter was the big infallible bossman, why was paul able to correct and publicly rebuke him?
he doesnt know why some literal rando's authority was equivalent to the apostles who upended their own lives to spend years living in a donkey caravan touring with a travelling rabbi

>>521003270
what do you call them?

>>521002878
>i dont know what you mean by that
a framework that allows you to derive purpose, morality and truth.
your answer is just cultural nostalgia, autism and lolis.
>>521003616
>7 year old tranny
the fruits of atheism

To everyone looking for "the really real Christianity" and/or "the secret true original religion" it is The Holy Catholic Church. The internet (a collection of literal whos, maladaptive retards, and malevolent heretics) will have you look everywhere but there and they don't care if you become a satanist, a crystal healer, a schizo researcher, or a mundane yokel protestant ...as long as you don't become a reasonable and patient Catholic.

>>520986950
>no, satan is the craftiest of all beings.
All he did is fooled bunch of naive retards.

>>521004328
he does so to this day

>>521004315
your ancestors fled to the new world because they were persecuted to death by the "patient catholic church" for reading the bible.

>>521004315
>"patient" qualifier
feel so bad for catholic apologians.
first bergoglio now this guy.
ratzinger was a great writer at least.

>>520976045 (OP)
"Der Papst stinkt aus dem Maul wie eine Kuh aus dem Arsch." -- Martin Luther

>>520986777
>Sacred seven's checked
Nobody's gonna check that? It really is a handful of us battling the whole World in a dead Internet.
& we still Win-LOL

>>521004512
>persecuted for reading the bible
Didn't happen. The Catholic Church compiled the Bible and never held it back from anyone, they also were the first to translate it despite what Pastor Dave told you. What you are referencing is a protestant meme, and if you look into it you will see that the Church was only against the new editions of the Bible's that had footnotes with personal interpretations because they were spreading errors (and obviously they would have to take that stance). The Douay Rheims translation was the Catholic English translation (the new testament in 1582 and the old in 1609) it predates and was used as a model to create the protestant king james bible. If you want the truth that's what you will find, if you want an easy lie keep repeating "Catholics wouldn't even let them read the Bible!"
>fled to the new world because of Catholics
Specifically it was protestants that fled the oppression of other protestants in England (where Catholicism had been banned for about 86 years at that time).
>>521004710
I don't fall for Pope hate either, its absurd. Francis was what you would expect from a Jesuit Pope and all he did was give Catholics a reason "on both sides" to challenge their resolve and face the reality of the virtue of mercy. Leo seems very non-confrontational so far, but its no wonder everyone is frothing over what he might say and prejudging him as Catholic E-celebs make a living keeping the controversy alive and turning every new day into a sedevacantist propaganda strategy. No doctrine has been changed and the Pope as an individual has every right to his own opinion, the hype-artist e-celebs would rather have you leave the church based on nothingburgers so you can like and subscribe and be a follower of their channels instead.

Christians; "Deh babby jeebuz wuz a refugee and so you must welcome all refugees like dey wuz de babby jeebuz."

>>520976219
Because they thought it was worthless to embrace the true knowledge of God, God gave them over to a worthless mindset. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, fornication, adultery, wickedness, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malicious behavior. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventing new ways to sin, disobedient to parents, resentful, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless, worldly. Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

Historical riddle;

What does it take to make Protestants and Catholics stop fighting and form an alliance with one another?

Answer;

Anabaptists

>>521006208
>The Catholic Church compiled the Bible and never held it back from anyone
cool catholic propaganda. why does the catholic catechism then go totally against what the bible teaches?

>what you would expect from a Jesuit Pope
so you know that Jesuits select the popes, and you know that Jesuits are satanists.
so why would you stay in that system?

>>520992467
>Give me one legitimate reason why you are unable to
It's not about whether we're able to. It's about whether we have to. According to the patristic consensus and the decisions of the ecumenical councils, we don't, at least not in the form you're suggesting.

Secondly, the mosaic law is dozens of times more comprehensive than resting on sabbath and avoiding pork. There are literally hundreds of commandments to follow. Neither you or I are following them.

Finally, Christmas and Easter are not pagan holidays. This is a common but ultimately false meme.

>>521006549
>cool catholic propaganda
As I've said, if you look into the history of it you will find I am correct. You should. You should be dedicated enough to investigate what others tell you to make sure its the truth, right?
>why does the catholic catechism then go totally against what the bible teaches?
It doesn't at all. Read it.
>jesuits are satanists
Source that doesn't involve catlady memes from reddit?

>>521007310
>You should be dedicated enough to investigate what others tell you to make sure its the truth, right?
yes, I know the history of my country and what rome did in retaliation for the reformation because one bloke translated the bible into german for the people to read and wrestled power from the pope.
>It doesn't at all. Read it.
the catechism on idolatry
>2131 Basing itself on the mystery of the incarnate Word, the seventh ecumenical council at Nicaea (787) justified against the iconoclasts the veneration of icons - of Christ, but also of the Mother of God, the angels, and all the saints. By becoming incarnate, the Son of God introduced a new "economy" of images.
https://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P7F.HTM
and on the sabbath
>Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.108

>2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.
https://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P7O.HTM

>Source that doesn't involve catlady memes from reddit?
the Jesuits themselves
look up Professor Walter Veith, a former catholic. look him up.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWiIsOV3p3xJQKdnD3_gZlf7_q9FdYHHL

>>520993144
>thats her choice, accept the choice God made for her. every believer does the same,
I'm not sure if you're being obtuse on purpose in order to avoid having to acknowledge my point. No, you're not doing what Mary did. What Mary did was immeasurably more significant than anything you or I will ever do.

>Sounds a lot like you are just skirting the worship of humans to me at this point.
I don't see why you would think I'm skirting when I'm plainly admitting what I would do. We simply disagree on whether it would be worship. Is respecting your elders, superiors and teachers worship too? Saints are people who have finished the walk we're walking with exceeding success. There is no reason not to respect, honor and look up to them.

>they are human traditions, not christian.
How do you differentiate between the two? How do you tell them apart without ultimately justifying it by your own subjective understanding? Where from do your judgements derive their authority?

>how would you know?
The Christian tradition has two millennia of empirical experience of grace and its properties and behavior in both animate and inanimate objects.

>the saints are hidden by God in Christ. that means nobody knows who a saint is and who is not. only God knows the heart of a person.
There are both hidden and known saints. Of course we can never say for absolute certainty, but usually the sainthood of someone is clear in the unspeakably humble and miraculous fruits of their lives.

>what will you do when judgement days come and you realize you dedicated prayers to a wolf in sheep clothing all the time?
Paul writes that our leaders will have to give an account for the souls under their care. This is to say that the Church would be held accountable for misleading its sheep who have humbly submitted themselves under its dogmatic authority. Yet Jesus promised to us that the Church will not be overcome, hence we can trust in it as the ark of our salvation.

>>521007956
>What Mary did was immeasurably more significant than anything you or I will ever do.
carry a child and give birth to it? nearly all women have done so.
>Is respecting your elders, superiors and teachers worship too?
according to you, you would.
>Saints are people who have finished the walk we're walking with exceeding success.
you dont know that. the catholic church does not declare who is a saint, only God does.
>How do you differentiate between the two?
human traditions are not biblical and should be rejected.
if the tradition of a church does not comply with what the bible teaches it has fallen to doctrines of demons.
>empirical experience of grace and its properties and behavior in both animate and inanimate objects
thats just signs and wonders we were warned about to not fall for.
>we can never say for absolute certainty
so why gamble?
>Yet Jesus promised to us that the Church will not be overcome, hence we can trust in it as the ark of our salvation.
he also told us about the harlot of babylon with her mysteries and blasphemies.
women in the bible are always churches. and doing research into this subject will directly reveal who the whore of babylon is that the kings of the world participate with in fornication.
I wonder which head of a certain church always meets with political leaders...

>>520985752
>Shit like this is why nobody takes Christianity seriously anymore, which is extremely regrettable.
As a lifelong atheist who is in the process of converting to Orthodox Catholicism, I agree with this sentiment. It was Evangelicals- their poor reasoning and their sea of denominations that made all Christianity appear to me as fraudulent. To call it New Age is not an unfair comparison. Unlike mainline Protestants, Evangelical seems to be a very modern and American cultural phenomena.

However, I am too new to this to speak with any authority on theology. But I do think judgement is for the Lord.
>>520978092
As this anon suggests.

>>520980752
I doubt the modern state of denominationalism is what Martin Luther intended, but I do think the church predicted this would happen. I can't speak to theology, but I have read history- and I recall part of the inquisition was correcting the teachings of illiterate priests. I recall some in Spain were even teaching the Virgin Mary was the wife of Christ- purely because the priest lacked a copy of scripture or proper training! This was not a malicious heresy- rather, it speaks to how difficult an organizational challenge it is to keep doctrine clear and concise in many different languages and nations. I appreciate the Church in Rome did its best to address these challenges.

Having said that, I do not think the Protestants broke with the Church over petty grievances. The antipopes, the Borgia Papacy, Private Mass... Rome was steeped in political corruption. And it's not hard to see it still is.

No place on earth is free of sin. Not even the church. But the infallibility of the Pope cannot repent, and so the church is trapped trying to justify their mistakes.

But I am just a humble catechumen. I've no authority, and ask you forgive my errors if I misunderstood.

>>520976045 (OP)
Christkikes are all part of the problem whether or not they worship the guy in a silly costume in Rome or not. Kiketholics are also the problem.

>>520976045 (OP)
But they have so much moneys!
And that's what it's all about.
Isn't it.

>>520992161
It's always funny how Christkikes and other Abrahamists will devolve into this 'tism wars about minutiae.

>>521006519
It's always so sad that Christkikes will murder their brothers because they had a little dispute over minutiae.

>>521000294
the percentage of orthodox priests that are gay are like 0.00001%. As opposed to average protestant/roman catholic/secular America which is roughly 9.3% now

>>521009300
nah, those guys were total cunts that made themselves kings and larped as holy people.
the punishment was insanely over the top however.

>>521009300

Theology is dogshit and theologians are intellectual trash.

>>521007802
>on luther
Even he was shocked at how wild protestantism became in such a short time. He also would not tolerate half of the lies and errors that are upheld by protestants today, even by "lutheranism".
>on idolatry
Iconoclasm is obviously bullshit. The command against images references idols not icons and not "all images". Idols are images that people of the time considered to be alive or containing gods, it was a teaching from Moses who soon after dealt with the idol of the golden calf. Since the earliest days of the Church there were images of Christ and of the saints and so on, as it was a way to teach the stories of the faith to the illiterate. Protestants needed to invent new "mistakes that the church made" to create offshoot denominations as Luther only dealt with his small selection of critiques and didn't try to re-introduce a multitude of ancient errors like later forms of protestantism did.
>on the sabbath
Adventism is another one of those errors. You will find the same thing happening today. Take any long standing element of the church, pervert it and say "the church really meant this but they don't want you to know cause they are ebil" and there you go, you have a new denomination, you just have to convince people with emotional outbursts over a lie and shun them if they call you out on your bullshit.
>on some professor
Will watch, but not afraid of Jesuits. They have been a major force for evangelization since their creation. They sent their men to the ends of the Earth to preach to natives and savages and a lot of them lost their lives for it, ..and you think they were that dedicated to preaching satanism? Its easy to label people and be disingenuous, you know that we Catholics are Christians but it just doesn't suit your personal recreation of history.

lots of butthurt protties here, just imagine how much more butthurt you will be once you die and go to hell

>>521006549
>carry a child and give birth to it? nearly all women have done so.
Are you really willing to sink so low as to compare the birth of God to the birth of any random baby in order to avoid yielding ground in a meaningless internet argument?

>according to you, you would.
Could you rephrase? Your answer is in a grammatically inappropriate form that doesn't make sense.

>you dont know that. the catholic church does not declare who is a saint, only God does.
The Apostolic Church believes that the Holy Spirit guides the canonization of saints in the Church. Furthermore, tradition itself is Holy Spirit's active life in the church.

>human traditions are not biblical and should be rejected.
>if the tradition of a church does not comply with what the bible teaches
Friend, biblical according to whom? You? Where do your views derive their authority? What can you lean on in order to justify them? If you're self-justifying, you're just playing pope and deifying your own finite understanding. But if you think you're not self-justifying, then how do you ultimately know what is Biblical and what is not, i.e. how do you verify that your understanding is correct?

>thats just signs and wonders we were warned about to not fall for.
In the Bible a woman got healed by touching the garments of Jesus. Others got healed by similarly by touching the head scarf of Paul. Were these signs and wonders too? If no, why would any of the other miracles be? If they are signs and wonders, why has no one pointed them out? Why do the holiest Christians in the last two thousand years accept and confirm them? Why does the Holy Spirit not speak against them?

>so why gamble?
No one forces you to pay attention to saints whose sainthood you're not personally convicted of.

>I wonder which head of a certain church always meets with political leaders...
Off the top of my head, the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church, the Church of England, several American protestant churches...

>>520976356
catholics are papists, not christians

>>521009841
this is not a charitable or productive thing to say even if it's technically true

>>521010032
why are protestant arguments always so shallow and worldly in this way? i've always tried to give protestant theology a fair chance, but it's never deeper than friend/enemy distinction

internet catholics can be obnoxious nerds, but the non-arguments of protestants make it really easy for them

>>521009630
>>521009630
>>made themselves kings

Actually they were protocommunists. How did that happen?
Luther, dismantled the convents. How did this matter?
In a Catholic nation (like Quebec right up to 1960) a father would take his daughters straight to the convent as soon as they hit puberty. The nuns and the girls they cared for were locked up behind bars. There were shows on the CBC about this in 1959 1960 that I watched. Judging from the howling tears I'd say they probably didn't like it. On their wedding day they'd be picked up from the care of the nuns and swept straight to the altar for their arranged marriage. Some women do like it but most don't. Luther liberated the girls from the convents and instead of returning to their fathers they formed a tight mob. The mobs of women grew and they yomped around from town to town gathering forces, including men. They were super fanatics, so much so that they demanded an end to the laws of sinful men and that the only law permissible were the words of Jesus Christ, God's law. Jesus didn't like the wealthy or private property. We're supposed to share so this mob of women demanded just that. The end of private property. The mob moved to Strasburg and tried to take it over for their social experiment their godly city. Strasburg was too big too rich and too savvy to let them take over so they left Strasburg and wound up in Munsters. There, their revolution attained its climax. They ended private property in one fell swoop; they burned down the municipal records office with all the title deeds to the property in and around Munster. The horror of pure anarchy unleashed.

Bang...that was it. Catholics and Protestants recognized the great danger and fell on them with a pitiless future. I think I'd rather be a Russian fighting at Stalingrad than be an anabaptist beseiged in Munster.

>>521009830
idk, idolatry is fully established at this point.
remembering the sabbath and keeping it holy is part of the 10 commandments we are to observe according to Jesus.
sabbath is the 7th day, but the most churches observe the first day, their so called Lords day.
> They sent their men to the ends of the Earth to preach to natives and savages and a lot of them lost their lives for it, ..and you think they were that dedicated to preaching satanism?
they totally fucked up from Japan being reached by the gospel forever.
they were created as a response to the reformation to undo it and eradicate every teaching against their lord the pope.
its a military organisation at the core.

>>521010272
> i've always tried to give protestant theology a fair chance
by this do you mean you had a flamewar with some memer on twitter, or did you sit down and read something like calvin's institutes or grudem's systematic theology?

>>520976045 (OP)
>>520976313
Well first you have to understand what happened in the Protestant Reformation.

https://youtu.be/piVdrtgo7Xw

https://youtu.be/xs0ExgnRMqc

>>521010530
>Idolatry
It's not idolatry to use a statue or a symbol as a visual focus to coordinate your prayer. Do you seriously think Catholics are worshipping marble or stone? Do you honestly believe Catholics genuinely think the statue itself (as an object) is magical or something?

>>521010530
Are you Lutheran? Have you ever looked into what Luther thought of veneration of saints?

>Satan is clever . . . Thus, even now, among us, he is quibbling over the worship of saints and what the saints are conscious of in heaven.

>Thus, too, I would solve the question about adoring and invoking God dwelling in the saints. It is a matter of liberty, and it is not necessary either to do it or not to do it. To be sure, it is not so certain that God has His dwelling in many men as that He is present in the sacrament, but we do read in I Corinthians [footnote: 1 Cor 14:24-25] that an unbeliever will fall on his face and worship God in the saints, if he hears them prophesying; and Abraham saw three angels, and worshiped one Lord; and (to use your own illustration) what do we do when we “prefer one another in honor,” except honor and adore God in ourselves? Let it be free, then, to call upon God in man or out of man, in creatures or out of them, for “I fill heaven and earth,” saith the Lord. Here faith goes the safest way, for in all things it sees only God, but we cannot say enough of this to unbelievers, or prove it to them, because they are always worshiping themselves. (Letter to Paul Speratus, 13 June 1522)

>>521010672
read what the church fathers had to say about idolatry

>>521010530

They weren't formed to fight protestantism so much as Rosicrucianism and Freemasonry of various types. They borrowed the secretiveness of Freemasonry which after all is mostly crypto judaic and thus deserving of persecution of the most pitiless nature.

>>521009872
>Are you really willing to sink so low as to compare the birth of God to the birth of any random baby
no, the conception and birth of our Lord is a miracle.
I just dont think the woman that carried him should be venerated for it. she is blessed because of it and thats it.
>Could you rephrase?
you already said you would light candles and fall on your knee before a friend. you would worship anything and anyone.
worship is for God alone.
>The Apostolic Church believes that the Holy Spirit guides the canonization of saints in the Church. Furthermore, tradition itself is Holy Spirit's active life in the church.
the Holy Spirit is not the only spirit at work. we are told to test the spirits.
>Friend, biblical according to whom?
the bible. its plain and simple enough.
>Were these signs and wonders too?
these acts glorified the Lord.
a crying statue of Mary does not glorify the Lord.
>Why do the holiest Christians in the last two thousand years accept and confirm them?
how do you know that someone is holy? can you see the Holy Spirit?
>Why does the Holy Spirit not speak against them?
you have the Word.
>No one forces you to pay attention to saints whose sainthood you're not personally convicted of.
yeah, nobody forces me to gamble my fortune on a single horse. my question is, why do you?
>Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church, the Church of England, several American protestant churches..
and who in history crowned kings and told them how to run their empire and wage holy wars?

>>521010767
"Does anyone worship or pray with his eyes fixed in the image without being persuaded that the image is hearing his petition and without hoping that it will give him what he wants? Probably not."

Augustine is critiquing those who idolise the statue and not the divine figures the statue represents. And I think personally it's sad he assumes most people confuse the two, I don't and never have. I have always been cognisant of the fact that my eyes are looking at ceramic, stone, or marble. I do not perceive Jesus or Mary in the actual flesh behind the stone.

I simply use the symbols, statues, iconography to help guide my mind to focus on Christ and God in thought. I have always assumed most other Catholics do this too. And for me I will continue doing it, because my mind has a tendency to wander and stray very often in prayer. The statues and icons remedy this.

I hate iconoclasts.

>>520976045 (OP)
>Pope's audience chamber is a giant snake's head
>between its fangs is a graven image of Christ

>you're worried about Protestants

>>521010672
>It's not idolatry to use a statue or a symbol as a visual focus to coordinate your prayer.
tell that to Moses lmao.

>>521010272
>why are protestant arguments always so shallow and worldly in this way?
Because their theology is the same as any protester we see today, "protestant" meaning in protest of the Catholic Church, but just like protests of today they aren't sure why they are out there and can only explain their frustration is simplistic terms (because its mostly propaganda that drives the momentum)
>you're a papist!
>you're a fascists!
Its the same mentality.
>i've always tried to give protestant theology a fair chance, but it's never deeper than friend/enemy distinction
Same, but after giving it a fair chance and examining each of their big issues it became clear that someone had sold them on a bunch of lies.
>internet catholics can be obnoxious nerds, but the non-arguments of protestants make it really easy for them
I agree completely and we should do our best to avoid getting drawn into arguments that are better suited for priests and not try to be amateur apologists so much as good examples of ordinary Christian men. We don't want to tach error by mistake, and we don't want to give them any cause to reinforce their views after dealing with a Catholic who isn't capable of remaining calm and rational.
>>521010530
>your first part
I could tell you we don't believe the statue is alive but would you believe me? I could explain to you the tradition of why we uphold Sunday but would you believe me? Why do you think you (as a non-Catholic) have enough understanding to tell me what Catholics believe?
>they fucked up Japan
Japan fucked themselves up, there were many thousands of Christian converts in Japan.
>created as a response to the reformation to undo it
Sure. Now imagine you were in a medieval kingdom, and loyal to your king, then someone came in and told a bunch of lies about him and now there is a faction dedicated to turning your countrymen against the kingdom, would you, as a man loyal to your king, suggest not forming a group capable of reversing that somehow?

>>520976219
This

>>521010694
I dont give a fuck about Luther or any drivel that he wrote or said. he was a fallible man like anyone else.
the only thing he did that was worthwhile is open the bible to the common people to read and the pope hated it.

>>521010822
>>They weren't formed to fight protestantism
thats the entire reason loyola had.

>>520976045 (OP)
Modern Catholicism is theologically identical to mainline Protestantism

>>521011237
>I just don't think the woman who risked her own life alongside Joseph during their perilous journey across arid plains among hostile powers to deliver Christ Jesus safely through 9 months of arduous pregnancy should be venerated.

You're an idiot. Veneration. ≠ worship. Veneration means to show a deep respect for someone and to honor them. Christ honored his mother. And to be Christian is to be Christ-like, to do as Christ does wherever possible. And if you refuse to properly honor his mother through veneration, you're a heretic.

>Worship is for God alone
Correct. Problem is you have a very broken idea of worship and can't understand nuances.

>The Holy Spirit is not the only spirit at work.
What are you implying, that the Church is demonic? Also read Proverbs more. Wisdom should tell you not to deliberately seek evil spirits to test them. You are instructed to steer clear of them.

>The Bible. Plains and simple enough.
Read a Bible that doesn't suffer from the protestant mutilation of having 6 books removed + bastardized translation.

>A crying Mary statue doesn't glorify the Lord
It does. If you use that protestant head of yours and think: "Why does she cry? Why did she weep 2,000 years ago?". Answer: She bore witness to Christ's bloody sacrifice. Therefore it points to the Lord. Try again.

>How do you know someone is Holy?
A good question to ask yourself. It requires having a unified magisterium and principles catechism. Something Protestants lack entirely.

>Muh holy wars muh king crowning pope
Would you prefer the powers of the world remain Unchristian, unbaptized, and let Godlessness reign over the world?

>>521011659
>tell that to Moses lmao
Lmao his people were using icons of demons, moron. Not comparable.

>>521011276
out of curiosity and not to segue into an actual, a thought experiment.
say AI bullshit and android stuff becomes way way way more ubiquitous, post scarcity society yada yada.
what would be your thoughts on an android virgin Mary sitting with adherents of the church to help them pray?
kneejerk reaction is likely that this would be psychotically blasphemous but i'm interested in hearing an articulation as to why.

>>521012082
>not to segue into an actual argument*
fixed that for me

>>521012082
AI puts words into the mouths of iconography, images, videos. It would be extremely unwise to use AI for any sort of worship or study.

Funnily enough I have already seen many Protestants use chatGPT for 'Bible study'.

>>521011667
>I could tell you we don't believe the statue is alive but would you believe me? I could explain to you the tradition of why we uphold Sunday but would you believe me? Why do you think you (as a non-Catholic) have enough understanding to tell me what Catholics believe?
Im not telling you that to leave catholicism or to convert you. I am telling you out that we are to remain pure for Jesus Christ coming. we need to adhere to the Word of God or we will suffer loss.
I dont ramble against catholics, but catholocism and its false teachings against the Word of God which should be our authority in spiritual matters. the Word of God is strict on the matters of idolatry and the sabbath, Israel suffered greatly for not following the commandments God gave them.
>Japan fucked themselves up
nah, Jesuits were trying to bring Japan under the foot of rome and the japanese wouldnt have any of that. who can blame them. every ruler was sick of the pope at one point or the other.
>would you, as a man loyal to your king, suggest not forming a group capable of reversing that somehow?
if you think a man in rome is God and ought to rule the world instead of Jesus Christ you have other problems.

>>521011237
>I just dont think the woman that carried him should be venerated for it. she is blessed because of it and thats it.
Well, I'm probably not going to change your mind on it.

>you already said you would light candles and fall on your knee before a friend. you would worship anything and anyone.
I asked you if respecting your elders, superiors and teachers is worship too. If such persons deserve our respect, then why would not saints? Whether we show this respect in this or that way is besides the point imo. What matters is the intent.

>the Holy Spirit is not the only spirit at work. we are told to test the spirits.
Do you think you know something the bishops and church fathers responsible for our dogma did not, when it comes to testing spirits?

>the bible. its plain and simple enough.
Which is to really say "*my* understanding of the Bible", right? Clearly the Bible is not plain and simple enough, as Protestants cannot agree over what it says. The questions I asked about the authority and justification of your individual Biblical interpretation remain unaddressed. Could you answer them?

>these acts glorified the Lord.
>a crying statue of Mary does not glorify the Lord.
We were talking of all the ways in which God's grace has manifested throughout the history of the Church, which you called signs and wonders. You're offering a strawman.

>how do you know that someone is holy? can you see the Holy Spirit?
By the consensus of Church leaders, elders and experience laity, which is the primary means with which the Holy Spirit is known to guide the Church.

>you have the Word.
Which does not speak against -- but rather affirms -- how God's grace has historically been seen to act in the Church.

>my question is, why do you?
I don't and I don't see where your assumption is coming from.

>and who in history crowned kings and told them how to run their empire and wage holy wars?
The three first.

>>521011787
So what is the ultimate arbiter of correct faith for you? How do you verify that your understanding of the Bible is correct? You're really worshipping your own understanding, are you not?

>>521012282
There you go again
>If you think a man in Rome is God

No one believes the Pope is God. No one believes he is equal to Christ. Every single pope is a sinner, same as everyone else. Even Peter denied Christ three times while he was being tortured. We do not venerate the individual pope, we venerate the office of the Pope we see it as a throne that is meant for Christ's return. That is why we honor it.

And before you pull the typical protestant rebuttal
>"But you guys believe he is infallible!"

We believe a pope can speak infallibly. On very specific occasions, and those are VERY rare. The last time a pope spoke infallibly was the 1950's.

And speaking infallibly does not mean divinity. It means the Pope speaks without error and from direct inspiration from God.

>>520976045 (OP)
Irish marxism that anti holohoax and anti corporations and banking its not cultral marxism or cultezl zionism and the french communist is is anti immigration and a ru corporations and banking apparatus tly when you ibreed at jinsa zoa and then then the other shit

>>521012450
>You're really worshipping your own understanding, are you not?

Of course he is. All Protestants do.

>>521012159
>AI puts words into the mouths of iconography, images, videos. It would be extremely unwise to use AI for any sort of worship or study.
so the audio information the form would give would be inauthentic and therefore problematic.
is it not true that the visual information is also ungenuine in the practice of venerating statues?
what if the android was just given pre-programmed phrases that are selected and okayed by the vatican, and could stroke the back of grieving widows while telling them everything will be okay.

>>521012583
based protestant speaking in tongues, love it when they do this it's hilarious

>>521006208
> it was protestants that fled the oppression of other protestants
This is true but they considered the Anglicans to basically be the Catholic Church, iirc these accusations still go on against mainline protestants from baptists and such

>>521011948
>Veneration. ≠ worship.
pharisaic mental gymnatics.
>Correct. Problem is you have a very broken idea of worship and can't understand nuances.
you are to have no other gods beside God. "venerating" a queen in heaven breaks that commandment.
> that the Church is demonic?
the church is the first place satan goes. we reached sun and worship of the dead levels that shouldnt be possible. the roman church is fully dedicated to satan at this point.
>Wisdom should tell you not to deliberately seek evil spirits to test them.
cool, call me when the pope or catholics stop consulting spirits and pray to them, ie "mary" and the saints.
>Read a Bible that doesn't suffer from the protestant mutilation of having 6 books removed + bastardized translation.
near impossible to find, they were all mutilated by jesuits and secret societies.
the additional 6 books dont add anything significant and no translation is perfect.
the hard simple core truths are still in the bible, Jesus Christ crucified. from the OT to the NT.
> It requires having a unified magisterium and principles catechism. Something Protestants lack entirely.
no, somebody holy is someone that has the Holy Spirit in them and you can never know who has and who has not. its a fact that is hidden in Christ.
>and let Godlessness reign over the world?
we have godlessness reigning the world. everyone on the top is in a secret club that worships lucifer. the bible doesnt joke around about the last days.

The world rotting in degeneration and christians fighting each other. Never ceases to amaze me.

>>521012082
One argument could be that a realistic AI could be seen as an attempt to depict a real thing as if it was the thing itself, whereas an icon is not. The more realistic something becomes, the harder it is not to treat it as a living thing unto itself. This may be one reason why icons have such a distinct unreal style.

>>521012032
its the same today.
just because it looks like a nice lady doesnt mean the spirit behind it is the same.
satan disguises himself as an angel of light for a reason. to look good.

>>520976219
christian bickering is utterly pathetic. shows that 99% of these people just care about being right and not much else.

>>521012992
isn't brazil about to enter a religious civil war?

>>521012710
>Is it not true that the visual information is also ungenuine in the practice of venerating statues?

If you mean visual information as in 'eyesight', then the information is about as genuine as the mind behind the pair of eyes. In other words, it depends on whether or not the Christian is appropriately using his mind to focus on God and Christ and not for other nonsense.

Also the statues are not being venerated. The statues are visual representations of the beings that are being venerated.

It's not hard to understand. And I don't know why Protestants fail to understand it. Not saying you are the protestant btw.

Let's say you have a wife. You want to dwell on her, you are apart form her and want to think of her. You pull out an image of her face in your wallet, you dwell on her image and feel fealty for her.

The protestant logic tells you that you are in love with a piece of paper and ink, the photo itself. Autistic levels of irrational surface level thinking, no? Reality says you are not in love with the photo, you are feeling love for the person IN the photo.

Similarly, statues of Christ or Mary are the same. No one is worshipping the statues they are using the statues to bring their mind to a state of worship for Christ and God and veneration or respect for Mary. We don't worship Mary. There's a difference in intent during prayer something Protestants also lack understanding of but that's a diff story.

>Phrases that are selected and okayed by the Vatican
Not gonna happen.

>>521012943
>the additional 6 books dont add anything significant
According to you? See how protestantism rotted your mind to make you so arrogant to presume which of God's scriptures are relevant and which are not?

>"Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you."

Deuteronomy 4:2.

Protestants are heretics right out the gate.

>>521012992
protestants are not christian, rather crypto warfare made by Jews

catholics and orthodox do not have these troubles, I wonder why

>>521012401
>If such persons deserve our respect, then why would not saints?
because all our respect should be toward Jesus Christ so that no man comes between us and him.
>when it comes to testing spirits?
discernment of spirits is a gift of the Holy Spirit to the believer.
catholocism always had this weird feeling come up in me, today after receiving the Holy Spirit I know why. its disguised paganism.
>Which is to really say "*my* understanding of the Bible", right?
no, you yield to God and his Word. there are passages in the bible I really dont like and would hope are not in it. but I have to adhere to the Word as Truth, thus yielding to its authority.
>as Protestants cannot agree over what it says
quarreling over details. the basic truth of saved by grace is what all have in common.
>We were talking of all the ways in which God's grace has manifested throughout the history of the Church, which you called signs and wonders.
you are ignoring that the Churches in Revelation totally deteriorate over time. the last church has not a single positive recommendation by the Lord, only rebuke. that is our current church age.
>Holy Spirit is known to guide the Church.
the Holy Spirit guides people.
>how God's grace has historically been seen to act in the Church
that would mean the Church gets better when the Word states it gets worse.
>The three first.
only one wants his power back.

>>521012450
>How do you verify that your understanding of the Bible is correct? You're really worshipping your own understanding, are you not?
the Holy Spirit.
and no, I dont interpret my own. some of the teachings of the bible make me tremble. the bible convicts you of yourself. its a mirror of how wicked you yourself and humanity is.
if you think I read the bible and think its a nice book you are mistaken.
all it provides is the mercy of the Lord God Jesus Christ and his second coming to look forward to.
besides that it offers me nothing but pain and rebuke.

>>521013162
i appreciate the analogy with the photo of a loved one, that's a helpful way to frame the intent behind visual representation.
that said, my question was more about the boundary between representation and simulation.
if a statue is a passive aid to devotion, what happens when it becomes interactive like an android offering comfort with vatican approved phrases?
would that shift the experience from symbolic to surrogate?

this is the stuff we need to think about in the cyberpunk dystopia we're headed into.
where's the line drawn between aids to worship and substitutes for presence?

>>521012520
>No one believes the Pope is God
but the pope does.
>We believe a pope can speak infallibly.
no, only God does. we are all wicked and fall short of the glory of God. the pope doesnt get special powers.
>It means the Pope speaks without error and from direct inspiration from God.
God doesnt inspire, he convicts.

This thread proved, once more, that prots are completely nonsensical, delusional and that they worship themselves. They always believe that everything is either/or.

>If you respect the saints or your friends, or your family, you're taking respect from God

It seems that for prots, God is an insecure dictator. Sadly for them, God is a loving father that loves, just like any father does, when every one of His sons and daughters get respected.

>>521006103
wtf i love images of christ now

>>521012082
>what would be your thoughts on an android virgin Mary sitting with adherents of the church to help them pray?
Psychotically blasphemous.
>kneejerk reaction is likely that this would be psychotically blasphemous but i'm interested in hearing an articulation as to why.
Not "because it shouldn't be allowed to represent a holy figure" but because Ai specifically does mimic life and has the troubling aspects that we see today where midwits do personify it as if it were actually alive. There would also be the aspect of an Ai saying things to you and you being expected (as its audience) to think "This is really Mary talking to me!" as it is an act of participating in theater yourself to "talk to an ai" at all. I feel a similar distaste towards examples of pixar Jesus, but not towards (respectful) live action films about Jesus. In the end, things like this will most certainly happen somewhere and are happening in small boutique protestant churches already. Let take a different example: lets say using holograms a Christmas event made it look like angels were (tastefully) flying around the church. Would that infuriate us? Probably not, and it would be just a novelty/spectacle, I think where it crosses the boundary is "speaking for" Jesus/Mary/etc.
>>521012942
>This is true but they considered the Anglicans to basically be the Catholic Church [these accusations still happen today]
You're not wrong. They felt that the Anglicans were too close to Catholics because many of the ceremonial aspects of The Catholic Church were/are still present today ...but of course they also all understood that the Anglicans we're ousting the Catholics and allegiance to the Pope from England at the same time. They wanted to go further but it ended with them sailing off to Plymouth colony instead. You're right to point out that distinction though, maybe that's where German anon was coming from. I've seen video of protests in England where the Anglicans were being called "too Catholic".

>>521013316
>See how protestantism rotted your mind to make you so arrogant to presume which of God's scriptures are relevant and which are not?
its easy. either Jesus or the apostles referenced the scriptures in the 6 additional books or they didnt.
yet Peter and James reference the book of Enoch and its not canon.
so this whole talk about what books are in the bible is useless to begin with.
>but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you."
cool, then keep the sabbath and stop you idolatry. you dont get to call me a heretic until then.
the 10 commandments of God are clear.

>>521013934
>Let take a different example: lets say using holograms a Christmas event made it look like angels were (tastefully) flying around the church. Would that infuriate us? Probably not
good illustration.

>>521014097
>cool, then keep the sabbath and stop you idolatry. you dont get to call me a heretic until then. the 10 commandments of God are clear.

Your denomination removed 6 entire books of the WORD. The WORD you constantly hide behind as a defense for your heresy. You thimp your bible arrogantly to try and criticise Catholicism, yet your denomination butchered the WORD six times. Get your head straight. Or go do that thing where you ‘ask the spirit’ to confirm your own biases for you. Thats another contemptible thing you do too, you invoke the holy spirit to use as a convenient weapon against those you criticise. You don’t even understand how the Spirit operates.

>>521014571
I am not in any denomination.
I read the bible and believe it. thats it.
and the Word says that the whore of babylon is the papacy.

>>521013598
>because all our respect should be toward Jesus Christ so that no man comes between us and him.
Okay, so you have no respect for your elders, your superiors or your teachers, but the rest of the society does and considers it sane behavior. It is a very humane thing to do, so much so that it is invariably seen in all civilizations and kingdoms. The kingdom of God is no different in this regard.

>catholocism always had this weird feeling come up in me, today after receiving the Holy Spirit I know why. its disguised paganism.
Historically Christianity has always taught us to be skeptical of our thoughts and feelings, as they are a major vector by which our enemy attacks us. Do you notice that you're implying engagement in circular logic? You know you have the Holy Spirit, because it feels like you have the Holy Spirit, which is proof that you have the Holy Spirit, and so on. Yet you have no way to truly confirm you're not being led by something entirely else. This is part of why proper Christianity has always been practiced under the guidance of a priest or an experienced elder. Without it we will quickly succumb into prelest due to our subjectivity.

>quarreling over details. the basic truth of saved by grace is what all have in common.
Not really, since we cannot agree over what grace is, how it works, how it's acquired, how it can be identified so on. The more we examine the details, the more we realize that our fundamentals, though superficially seemingly identical, are quite far apart from each other.

>you are ignoring that the Churches in Revelation totally deteriorate over time.
You are assuming what you see around is the end times. You cannot know this.

>the Holy Spirit guides people.
Precisely. And the guidance received by a community of believers having the correct practice and understanding of the faith is infinitely stronger than the guidance received by the sole Christian relying on their own understanding.

>>521013750
>the Holy Spirit.
How can you confirm that you're being led by the Holy Spirit?

>and no, I dont interpret my own
Who interprets it for you?

>some of the teachings of the bible make me tremble. the bible convicts you of yourself. its a mirror of how wicked you yourself and humanity is.
This can happen regardless of whether our understanding is correct or false, in which case it's either a cause for humble gratefulness or concern. Again, it's hard to figure out by yourself.

>>521014571
>a guy got a golden sword in a dream
>bel and the dragon
the apocryphal books aren't really that interesting or theologically important, notice no one ever quotes them, and you have less books than some eastern orthodox canons.
what's your justification for "HERETICALLY BUTCHERING THE WORD!!" according to them?

Honestly, the more I read the more I think I'm condemned and 99.9999999% of humans will go to hell. We were born just to be torn apart and condemned at. Everything is a sin.

I just want to close my eyes and be done with it. It would have been better not to be born at all. I'm sometimes angry at God and I feel I'm being gaslighted.

>>521013598
>so that no man comes between us and him.
Do you love and respect your dad? If so, does that come between you and Christ?
Do you love and respect your wife? Your children? Does your focus on them draw you away from Christ?

>>521013598
>its disguised paganism.
This is an unintuitive criticism to me. In what way? You mean to say the veneration of Mary is like the worship of Athena?

>>521013598
>the basic truth of saved by grace
Can you define grace? This isn't rhetorical. I genuinely don't know if your understanding is the same as mine.

>>521013598
>the Holy Spirit guides people.
I was an atheist for 30 years before the Holy Spirit revealed itself to me and guided me toward Christ. It has also guided me towards Orthodoxy. If you tell me it is not the Holy Spirit that guides me, then what is it that compels me to overturn the atheist foundation of my marriage, my friends, and the basis upon which I've built my life?

>>521013750
I have to go now. In spite of my argumentative rhetoric I wish you all the best. May you receive numerous blessings from our savior and may we once share our joy in heaven.

>>521015076
>may we once share our joy in heaven
impossible

>>521015055
Our God is not a tyrant looking for reasons to condemn us, but a loving creator seeking to establish our broken communion with him. Seek God with humility, joy and thankfulness anon. Everything will be fine.

>>521014786
>The kingdom of God is no different in this regard.
and you dont know who will be in it and who not. so having respect for anybody else but Jesus is pointless.
>Yet you have no way to truly confirm you're not being led by something entirely else.
the Holy Spirit uses the Word of God and does what it says so you can be sure it is from God. the Holy Spirit was the author of it after all.
>hristianity has always been practiced under the guidance of a priest or an experienced elder.
the Word says you have no other teacher than Christ.
>Not really, since we cannot agree over what grace is, how it works, how it's acquired, how it can be identified so on
the fruits we can see however.
>You cannot know this.
you can with Daniel and Revelation. they were given us in advance. God doesnt leave us in the dark about things to come.
>having the correct practice and understanding of the faith is infinitely stronger than the guidance received by the sole Christian relying on their own understanding
weird that I come in contact with some many christians that have the same reasoning as me.
>How can you confirm that you're being led by the Holy Spirit?
the Holy Spirit uses the Word of God.
>Who interprets it for you?
God, he is the author. how do you want to understand something someone else wrote fully and what he meant otherwise?

>>521015055
>We were born just to be torn apart and condemned at. Everything is a sin.
that's why you need to trust in Jesus' atoning work on the cross for your salvation.

>>520976045 (OP)

Tell me you're Irish without telling me you're Irish.

>>521015067
> 26“If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. 27Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple.

>This is an unintuitive criticism to me. In what way?
the worldly practices and rituals.

>Can you define grace?
getting something by someone you dont deserve in the first place.

>It has also guided me towards Orthodoxy.
then the Holy Spirit has his purposes for you there. Im not here to judge the actions of the Holy Spirit, nobody can tell him what to do or where to go.

>>521015207
>Our God is not a tyrant looking for reasons to condemn us, but a loving creator seeking to establish our broken communion with him. Seek God with humility, joy and thankfulness anon. Everything will be fine.
Yet everytime I read the bible, everytime I read what Jesus and the apostles say, everytime I hear the current churches, everytime I read and see and the more I look into this the more I see this is just slavery and condemnation. Its always the sword of Damocles hanging over. The moment you die, is all over, no do overs, no second chances, no mercy for the God of all good and mercy and understanding.

I always thought God was love, I always thought God was a father and infinite love but this is just a game of chicken until you die. This is not love, this is coercion and I'm so tired. You have to deny yourself, you are shit, you are worthless, everything is a sin, you can't win love me love me love meeeeeeeeee.

I just want to sleep and don't think. I just want to be left alone and I think that's why God doesn't talk to me. Not if he ever talked I wouldn't arrogantly discard him. Everything seems different in the mind than in reality.

>>521012282
>I am telling you out that we are to remain pure for Jesus Christ. We need to adhere to the Word of God or we will suffer loss.
I am telling you that Catholicism is in line with that, and if you were to examine the possibility that the understanding you (and those who helped form it) have of us is misinformed you might see that there are in fact a lot of lies about us. If you actually tried to examine why we do the things we do from our perspective and found that our reasoning made sense and upheld traditional and biblical rationale; at that point, what would be your reason for not converting to Catholicism? That is why there are lies to begin with, because protestantism needed lies and emotional propaganda to sustain itself, and if you understood that you would say it is unchristian to lie about and defame us as satanists when we are not. You would convert and give up the protest, and so they came up with some new narratives and some george floyd examples to keep you hooked. I really don't hate protestants at all, no Catholics do, we just know you are wrong because we were never taught to worship Mary or any of the other nonsense you try and hold against us.
>Catholicism teaching against the word of God
That doesn't happen. That's just what you imagine.
>trying to bring Japan under the foot of Rome
They were just doing their part to bring the gospel to Japan and the authorities eventually saw all western culture as invasive and dangerous. They didn't allow protestants either, and in the end the dutch could only bring trade and "tech" (of that era) into one port so they could have control over western influence and use it as they saw fit. It would have been the same if hindus showed up in droves with new tech and new ideas instead and lots of Japanese were becoming hindu.
>if you think a man in rome is God and ought to rule the world instead of Jesus Christ you have other problems.
Did I say that? No. Its just how you like to characterize it.

>>521015055
Jesus paid for everyones sins on the cross.
repent of your own ways and turn back to God.

>>521015627
>>I always thought God was love
He is. Rather than questioning this, question the veracity of your impressions and the conclusions you are drawing from them.

>>521015246
>the Holy Spirit uses the Word of God
So does the devil. What was the devil's primary weapon against Jesus in the desert?

>the Word says you have no other teacher than Christ.
Then why listen to Paul, Peter and James? Or the church fathers, the ecumenical councils and your pastor?

>you can with Daniel and Revelation. they were given us in advance. God doesnt leave us in the dark about things to come.
It's not a matter of what is going to happen but whether it's happening now. As said, none of us has the wisdom to know if it is.

But yeah, I'll read your reply in the morning. Good night.

>>521015737
Humanity went from 100% condemned to being 99.99999999999999999 condemned. If you don't repent from every single sin, which is everything, everything is a sin, and who knows what is a sin because no one can even agree on this important matter, then it's all over.

Anger is a sin, playing videogames is a sin, eating is a sin, women are a sin but you don't have to listen to them but you also have to see them, sexuality is all bad, not cutting your penis is a sin but cutting your penis is also a sin, money is a sin, everything that isn't worshiping God 24/7 is a sin, whatever that means.

>>521015677
>what would be your reason for not converting to Catholicism?
oh I bet most catholics are genuine in their faith and I have nothing against it.
however, I cant accept the man at the top with any cell of my being. he doesnt belong there and shouldnt be a thing from the start.
if the catholic ranks stopped at the level of cardinals maybe, but not this.
Jesus is the head of his Church, not the pope or anybody else.
>That doesn't happen. That's just what you imagine.
its subtle. I listened to catholic sermons. its feels inspired, but once you know what to look out for the slithering lies stick out here and there.
>if you think a man in rome is God and ought to rule the world
bro, you seriously need to look into the history of the catholic church.

>>521016009
>What was the devil's primary weapon against Jesus in the desert?
yes, right after the Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus from heaven.
thats why Jesus was able to rebuke him even after 40 days in the wilderness fasting. his body was week, but the Spirit strong.
>Then why listen to Paul, Peter and James?
because they had the Holy Spirit given to them recorded in the bible.
>but whether it's happening now
Revelation started when Jesus ascended.

>>521016143
>If you don't repent from every single sin, which is everything, everything is a sin, and who knows what is a sin because no one can even agree on this important matter, then it's all over.
repentance and the baptism in the Holy Spirit gives you a blank slate, every single thing is forgiven at once. and after that you have an advocate so even if you commit a sin you are sure to be forgiven.
>Anger is a sin, playing videogames is a sin, eating is a sin, women are a sin
dont fall for catholic teachings. the Holy Spirit is a guide, not a tyrant.

>>521015500
>getting something by someone you dont deserve in the first place.
So all Protestants agree on Original Sin and that man's nature is fundamentally irredeemable? From what I understand, Methodists, Anabaptists, Unitarians, and others do not accept that.

I suppose it matters little to you what arguably fringe branches of Christians believe (or perhaps you'd call them non-Christian entirely?). Just seems that Protestants do not all agree on even that fundamental question.

>>521015500
>then the Holy Spirit has his purposes for you there
So its acceptable, in your theology, for the Holy Spirit to give contradictory instruction to different people for unknowable purposes?

Can the Holy Spirit also guide people to Islam (as it still nominally recognizes Jesus)? Certainly many Muslims feel compelled to put down the chicken wings and Jihad. It is fair to answer that this is unknowable to us as well.

>>521016605
I think God is sovereign and deals with each person personally.
ofc different persons always have different opinions which results in arguments.
I leave the judgement up to God, I am just man after all.
>for the Holy Spirit to give contradictory instruction to different people for unknowable purposes?
he is God, he does whatever he wants to do.
>Can the Holy Spirit also guide people to Islam
no, the Holy Spirit glorifies Jesus.
you must also understand that there are different spirits at work, evil spirits that cling to desires of man, lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh and so on.

>>521016942
>I leave the judgement up to God, I am just man after all.
Except when you want to judge that 6 books from The Bible are ‘irrelevant’, then that sentiment goes out the window and you remove books from the WORD.